Knicks Morning News (Tuesday, Jul 03 2012)

  • [New York Daily News] Lin-trest in Nash raises questions for Knicks (Tue, 03 Jul 2012 06:00:50 GMT)

    The Knicks pursuit of Steve Nash makes perfect sense for a win-now team featuring two primary scorers in Carmelo Anthony and Amar’e Stoudemire.

  • [New York Daily News] Oops, ESPN misses chance to air more Linsanity (Tue, 03 Jul 2012 05:00:49 GMT)

    Time Warner Cable subscribers tuning in ESPN expecting to see Friday’s Hornets-Knicks game won’t like what they see. The network will be airing Dallas-Philadelphia instead.

  • [New York Times] With Eye on Williams, Nets Agree to Acquire Joe Johnson (Tue, 03 Jul 2012 05:20:14 GMT)

    As the Nets prepare to meet with their star point guard Deron Williams, the franchise agreed to acquire Joe Johnson, a six-time All-Star, from the Atlanta Hawks.

  • [New York Times] Anthony Davis Sprains Ankle and Awaits Evaluation (Tue, 03 Jul 2012 00:32:41 GMT)

    Anthony Davis has a left ankle sprain that must be evaluated later this week before he can be cleared to practice with the United States Olympic team.

  • [New York Times] Hornets Take Anthony Davis With Top Pick in Draft (Tue, 03 Jul 2012 06:20:05 GMT)

    The first two selections in the N.B.A. draft were Kentucky Wildcats, with Anthony Davis going to New Orleans and Michael Kidd-Gilchrist going to Charlotte.

  • [New York Times] AP Source: Hawks Agree to Deal Joe Johnson to Nets (Tue, 03 Jul 2012 05:30:17 GMT)

    The Hawks have agreed to deal All-Star guard Joe Johnson to the Brooklyn Nets for five players and a draft pick, and Atlanta will send forward Marvin Williams to the Utah Jazz for guard Devin Harris.

  • [New York Times] Brooks Agrees to Contract Extension With Thunder (Tue, 03 Jul 2012 00:57:16 GMT)

    Scott Brooks has signed a multiyear extension to return as coach of the Oklahoma City Thunder.

  • [New York Times] Off the Dribble: Lin Withdraws From U.S. Select Team, Citing Free-Agent Status (Tue, 03 Jul 2012 04:09:51 GMT)

    The Knicks’ Jeremy Lin withdrew from the United States Olympic select team Monday night, citing his status as a free agent.

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    Mike Kurylo

    Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

    235 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (Tuesday, Jul 03 2012)”

    1. Looks like Net are still in play for Howard.

      Per ESPN
      “Howard to the Nets for Brook Lopez, Kris Humphries, MarShon Brooks and the Nets’ first-round picks in 2013, 2015 and 2017”

      ATL potential deal which include Al Hortford seems like much better deal.

    2. One thing I didn’t realize is how bird rights changed under new CBA. Under old CBA, only teams that started the offseason over the cap could use them. Now it seems you can be under, spend up to it, and go over it further for bird rights players.

      For instance, in 2010, the Knicks were under the cap and signed Amar’e, Felton, Mozgov, et al. But we couldn’t go over the cap to then re-sign David Lee & Al Harrington (assuming we wanted to).

      In 2012, the Nets can be under the cap, sign Williams & Wallace, trade for Joe Johnson, and still go over the cap to sign Lopez & Humphries and trade them for Howard.

      Not sure how (or why) that happened.

    3. @1 – I can’t see Orlando seriously considering that, can you?

      Maybe Billy King is desperate enough to take Amar’e right now?

    4. Bird rights haven’t changed at all, you are just missing an element. Cap holds. When a player becomes a free agent the team he was playing for has a cap hold placed on them unless they renounce that player, so that player is taking up a portion of your cap even though they are currently unsigned. In order for the Knicks to sign those guys in 2010 they had to either move or renounce players that had cap holds, that or make the deal fit with the amount of the cap hold in place.

    5. JC Knickfan:
      Looks like Net are still in play for Howard.

      Per ESPN
      “Howard to the Nets for Brook Lopez, Kris Humphries, MarShon Brooks and the Nets’ first-round picks in 2013, 2015 and 2017?

      ATL potential deal which include Al Hortford seems like much better deal.

      I’ll believe that when I see it. Hennigan seems like a smart guy from everything I’ve read about him. I can’t believe that he has any interest in starting his rebuilding with both Humphries and Brooks signed to giant disgusting deals. Marshon Brooks is a decent piece, but none of those 1st round picks is going to be in the lottery. Honestly is that selection of junk really better than bottoming out with a ton of cap space and just rebuilding? I don’t really think it is. Some reports out there now that the Nets would have to find a 3rd team willing to take the signed and traded Humphries in return for some more assets. That makes a bit more sense I guess, but it still seems like it’s going to be hard for them to offer a package more appealing than the cap space, let alone more appealing than what a team just renting him (Houston say) might offer. Seems more likely that Orlando is reopening talks with the Nets in an effort to get a sense of what other teams’ final offers are.

    6. DS:

      Maybe Billy King is desperate enough to take Amar’e right now?

      Unfortunately, I think that ship has sailed. The fact that they took Joe Johnson’s deal (which isn’t quite as bad as Amare’s in my mind, but pretty damn bad) suggests that they actually might have gone for it, but the Nets are far from desperate at this point. I think they’ll try to get Dwight, and if they can’t pull it off they should still be in a good position to get the 4th or 5th seed next year, maybe win a playoff round, and then try to get Dwight signed and traded there next offseason.

    7. The Tyson and Amare for Howard talk didn’t take too long to get re-started. In my mind, that is a better offer than the non-all-stars (Brook Lopez and former Mr. Kardashian) could ever offer. I don’t think the Knicks would do this, but it would sure be fun to f* up the Nets’ plans of having Deron, Joe Johnson and Howard on the same team. If he’s willing to go to Brooklyn, why wouldn’t he be willing to go to Manhattan?

      http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/now_dwight_time_for_knicks_to_step_Dp383hgqzzGNWlyGRw4ZPI

    8. @6 – I know Amar’e to the Nets is not actually going to be discussed. I just think a GM (King) who is desperate to take on contracts in order to make the playoffs next season could have been a good opportunity.

      @7 – I agree the potential Knicks offer is prob. better, but IMHO I think both are highly unlikely. Deals involving Horford and Bynum would be more attractive and cap friendly.

    9. I hate Berman, but I have to agree with him on that. And I agree that deal would be the better deal. I also think he would resign.

    10. The offers that the Magic will receive for Howard depend, in part, on how much teams credit his statement that he will not sign an extension with any team other than the Nets. Given Howard’s flip-flop on waiving his ETO at the last trading deadline, I could see a team believing that it would have a shot at getting Howard to extend at the deadline. But, even without an extension, a team that wanted to sign Howard longterm would gain an advantage by trading for him now, because they would have Full Bird Rights, the ability to give Howard 7.5% raises per year (instead of 4.5%) and up to a 5 year contract (rather than 4 years).

      I think that the Lakers, Clippers, Thunder and Hawks each could make offers that are more compelling than the Nets.

      Lakers – Bynum and Blake for Howard and Duhon.
      Thunder – Harden/Perkins/Ibaka/Cook/Maynor for Howard
      Hawks – Horford/Teague/Pachulia for Howard/J. Richardson
      Clippers – Griffin/Jordan for Howard

      I also do not see a lot of value in Dallas’ offer (which is essentially expiring contracts and draft picks).

      Berman’s idea that the Knicks should offer Stat/Chandler for Howard/Hedo should be a non-starter on the Orlando side.

    11. Also please none of this nonsense about not resigning Lin. Even with remote possibility getting Nash, Knicks can still retain Lin. Even if Lin gets backloaded contract he still very tradeble asset. Specially if you trade him earlier in season before verdict is out.

      Offensively I think it possible can work, but real question is Defense. Nash will be 39 year small PG and Lin is small SG. Initially, I do think both of them would start, but I have hard time believing Knicks would not be horrible on defense.

      If experiment doesn’t work (Knicks have 500 or below record), question how quickly can do you blow this up. Nash is still playing like Nash, then sometime before trading deadline do you move Lin for true SG. Now question what happen Lin show major progress? Could we package Nash with Amare to another team?

    12. Spree8nyk8:
      Bird rights haven’t changed at all, you are just missing an element.Cap holds.When a player becomes a free agent the team he was playing for has a cap hold placed on them unless they renounce that player, so that player is taking up a portion of your cap even though they are currently unsigned.In order for the Knicks to sign those guys in 2010 they had to either move or renounce players that had cap holds, that or make the deal fit with the amount of the cap hold in place.

      Thank you! I knew that didn’t make sense.

      Now I see, then, that the only way Howard can ever be a Net is if Orlando panics and does this shitty deal now. Unlikely.

      The difference between Howard saying “I won’t sign with you if you trade for me, I’m only going to sign with the Nets” and Melo saying the same about the Knicks is that the Knicks actually had the cap space to sign him. Nets won’t. So Howard can never go to the Nets unless the team he is playing on accommodates him.

      No way this ever happens.

    13. ephus:
      The offers that the Magic will receive for Howard depend, in part, on how much teams credit his statement that he will not sign an extension with any team other than the Nets.

      It has no credibility. The Nets will not be able to offer close to a max salary next year. So say he gets traded to the Rockets, plays out the year, and then wants to sign with the Net. They would have to unload Wallace, Lopez, and anyone other than D-Will & JJ just to be able to offer him less than max.

      Can’t see it. He overplayed his hand.

    14. If the Net get DWill & D-12, Boston keeps all their FAs and Toronto gets Nash, the Atlantic Division would become the most competitive in Basketball with all 5 teams having a legitimate shot at making the playoffs.

    15. The big draw for the Nets offer would be the three first round picks…BUT, the Nets are going to be too good to make those picks worth much (unless they acquired some from the Bobcats that I don’t know about). I don’t think the Clippers offer up Blake… the Thunder offer you came up with is really intriguing if that could work, but tough to overhaul a team that just made the Finals. I see him in a Lakers uni, in the fall as the most likely option.

      ephus:
      The offers that the Magic will receive for Howard depend, in part, on how much teams credit his statement that he will not sign an extension with any team other than the Nets.Given Howard’s flip-flop on waiving his ETO at the last trading deadline, I could see a team believing that it would have a shot at getting Howard to extend at the deadline.But, even without an extension, a team that wanted to sign Howard longterm would gain an advantage by trading for him now, because they would have Full Bird Rights, the ability to give Howard 7.5% raises per year (instead of 4.5%) and up to a 5 year contract (rather than 4 years).

      I think that the Lakers, Clippers, Thunder and Hawks each could make offers that are more compelling than the Nets.

      Lakers – Bynum and Blake for Howard and Duhon.
      Thunder – Harden/Perkins/Ibaka/Cook/Maynor for Howard
      Hawks – Horford/Teague/Pachulia for Howard/J. Richardson
      Clippers – Griffin/Jordan for Howard

      I also do not see a lot of value in Dallas’ offer (which is essentially expiring contracts and draft picks).

      Berman’s idea that the Knicks should offer Stat/Chandler for Howard/Hedo should be a non-starter on the Orlando side.

    16. I do not think that Howard can credibly threaten that he will go to the Nets next off season, but he can credibly threaten that he will not extend with any team other than the Nets. Remember, an extension is less lucrative than a free agent signing, because Howard could only extend for three years beyond his current contract, not five years if he becomes a free agent and resigns with his prior team or four years if he becomes a free agent and signs with a new team.

      So, any team trading for Howard would have to take the risk that he would play out his contract and then move to a new team, leaving behind the larger raises (7.5% vs. 4.5%) and longer term (five years vs. four years) his incumbent team could offer.

    17. The Thunder aren’t trading Harden and Ibaka. I just can’t imagine that. Why alter a team that just made it to the NBA Finals to acquire a franchise center who doesn’t fit perfectly with your current system?

      I just doubt the Clippers offer Blake Griffin, but they should.

      I don’t think the Hawks are really poised to make a power play for Howard right now, but homecoming offers are always fun.

      The Laker deal seems to be the most plausible of the four, but they’ve loved Bynum for years. The Buss’ have rejected many quality offers for Bynum before; I’m not sure they’re sold that Dwight is that much better than Bynum.

      Regarding bottoming out: That’s the worst-case scenario in ORL’s eyes. It makes more basketball sense, probably, but Rich DeVos is very old and he’s unwilling to destroy the roster and start over. They’d rather be a peripheral playoff team for a few years than an awful one.

    18. Spree8nyk8: It was his primary position in college.

      I’ve followed Lin since Harvard. I’m aware of this. He has not been a SG in the NBA at all.

      Also: He was a combo guard at Harvard, not a primary 2. He spent a solid amount of time initiating their offense, not just playing off the ball.

    19. ephus:

      Thunder – Harden/Perkins/Ibaka/Cook/Maynor for Howard

      ephus aka the cap wizard, what does that Thunder deal do for both teams’ caps long term? I assume the Magic would continue to be basically capped out for the foreseeable future, but they could be a decent team, and they’ve been willing to pay the tax before. Start Maynor, Harden, Turk, Anderson and Ibaka with Perk, Big Baby and Reddick off the bench? They’d be intriguing at least, but I’m not sure that team is good enough to pay the tax for.

      Swapping Ibaka, Harden and Perk for Howard would presumably help the Thunder’s future tax problems, although if they maxed Howard and wanted to stay out of the tax they’d be looking at filling out their roster with a bunch of small time guys correct?

      I think that trade makes a lot of sense from both sides, but Howard seems pretty focused on getting to a fairly big market where he can be “the guy” to some extent. I doubt he has any interest whatsoever in OKC, and I can’t see Presti playing the Harden and Ibaka cards with the chance that a year from now Howard walks.

    20. johnlocke: the Thunder offer you came up with is really intriguing if that could work, but tough to overhaul a team that just made the Finals.

      I ran the Thunder offer through the Trade Machine, and it works. I agree that it would be tough to break up a Thunder team that just made the Finals, but the Thunder know that they will not be able to keep all four of Westbrook, Durant, Harden and Ibaka. I am certain that they would love to deal Perkins, who was not worth the contract that he got from Boston. Neither Maynor nor Cook meaningfully contributed to this year’s Thunder.

      If the Thunder acquired Howard, their rotation would be Westbrook/Sefolosha/Durant/Collison/Howard with Reggie Jackson/Perry Jones/Cole Aldrich and a MLE free agent on the bench.

    21. ephus:
      Remember, an extension is less lucrative than a free agent signing, because Howard could only extend for three years beyond his current contract, not five years if he becomes a free agent and resigns with his prior team or four years if he becomes a free agent and signs with a new team.

      Which is why he’s not extending with anyone, including the Nets. Wherever he goes, he will be a free agent at the end of the year.

      I don’t think teams are going to be too put off by this. Whoever trades for him has a major leg up next summer when he’s a free agent.

      And it’s hard to determine who they will even be competing with. Looks like Atlanta will be players next year. Maybe Phoenix and Toronto. None of the heavy hitters are lining up cap room for next year.

    22. Regarding the Nash issue, those folks who have argued that STAT and Melo can’t coexist need to consider how “clumsy” we’d be with two point guards. If Nash or Kidd showed up with a kind of Baron Davis type role to tutor Lin and toss in 15-20 minutes of play, that would be great but Nash would still be the starter and what a dis to Jeremy who would certainly be motivated to seek employment elsewhere. Kinda like when Payton goes to Denver, Tebow goes to the Jets. I’m a believer in Lin. Some people say that he only did it in 26 games but his record in those games was one of the most glittering from any player in history including Jordan/LeBron class top draft picks. What an upside! And to contemplate giving up Shump who is nothing but upside. Madness. My final point is don’t overlook KnickLuck. If we give up the store for Nash, hey, he’s gonna be 39. I can just hear his knee blowing out.

    23. TelegraphedPass: I’ve followed Lin since Harvard. I’m aware of this. He has not been a SG in the NBA at all.

      Also: He was a combo guard at Harvard, not a primary 2. He spent a solid amount of time initiating their offense, not just playing off the ball.

      Well the thing is that if they bring in Nash they have to find more mins for Lin because he’s too good to only play backup mins. So I’d think he’d have to play at least 12 mins a game at the 2. Maybe I’m wrong but it’s how I see it.

    24. thenamestsam: Swapping Ibaka, Harden and Perk for Howard would presumably help the Thunder’s future tax problems, although if they maxed Howard and wanted to stay out of the tax they’d be looking at filling out their roster with a bunch of small time guys correct?

      If the Thunder brought in Howard, they would be committing to being a tax payer for as long as they kept Howard, Westbrook and Durant. But that team would be the most talented in the NBA, and a potential dynasty. I expect that Harden and Ibaka are each looking at maximum deals next season, so the Thunder are facing the likelihood of being a tax payer after next season in any event. If you are going to keep just one player out of Howard, Harden and Ibaka, I vote for Howard.

    25. bob cook:

      Jeremy can be motivated to seek employment elsewhere all he wants. We can still match any offer.

      Nash is 38. Having a backup like Lin be able to play 15-20 mins a night can only be good for him. This is not about making Lin primarily a 2 guard. Shump would man the primary minutes there when he’s healthy.

    26. Spree8nyk8: Well the thing is that if they bring in Nash they have to find more mins for Lin because he’s too good to only play backup mins. So I’d think he’d have to play at least 12 mins a game at the 2. Maybe I’m wrong but it’s how I see it.

      Oh I totally agree with you there. My only dispute is the idea that he’s a 2 masquerading as a point guard, like Tyreke Evans used to. Jeremy Lin is absolutely an NBA point guard.

      Him at the two would be interesting, though. I used to hate the idea of 2 PG lineups in today’s NBA, but CP3/Billups and Lawson/Miller were very successful. Nash/Lin could work just as well for stretches.

    27. TelegraphedPass:

      The Laker deal seems to be the most plausible of the four, but they’ve loved Bynum for years. The Buss’ have rejected many quality offers for Bynum before; I’m not sure they’re sold that Dwight is that much better than Bynum.

      The Lakers did offer Bynum for Howard around the deadline last year. In was the only offer Otis Smith was willing to take, and he told Howard it was the only deal they would take, and Howard cried about not wanting to play for the Lakers, so they did the bazaar opt-in… Then Bynum went on to play like the best center in the NBA while Howard sat the rest of the season… Lakers got lucky (but I think Kupchack would put the offer right back out there again:)

    28. TelegraphedPass:
      @11 How is Jeremy Lin a shooting guard?

      Say Shump NOT include in trade, but is still out till Jan. It’s guess, but see it all-time highest paid people get to start and Lin just sign that backloaded contract. Dolan might even demand it for MSG rating. Heck, definitely would interesting to watch.
      Now Lin did play combo guard in college so not out question Knicks start Nash/Lin backcourt. In this Scenerio I presume Nash plays the point. Knicks go half season, but still have losing record. What do you do at trade deadline?

    29. JC Knickfan:
      Looks like Net are still in play for Howard.

      Per ESPN
      “Howard to the Nets for Brook Lopez, Kris Humphries, MarShon Brooks and the Nets’ first-round picks in 2013, 2015 and 2017?

      ATL potential deal which include Al Hortford seems like much better deal.

      as a NBA fan..I would love to see D12 in ATL. He’d fit in in BK very nicely with D Will..but I would still consider D Will the best player on that team..by a small margin. I would have LOVED 2 see him in NY if we could have pulled off a trade centered around Tyson and Stat. Once Houston started makin moves this offseason, I started thinkin Houston would be great for him. Lol..Dwight Howard..the leagues most coveted and confusing enigma. 1 thing’s for sure..Orlando is not the place for him anymore. He has more than worn out his welcome there. Sad really. Dwight Howard will never be as good as Shaq was..but in today’s NBA a big like him is as close to priceless as you can get. Oh well…not our problem lol. I’m so excited about the upcoming season though. It just feels like with a full offseason on deck, the opportunities for our frontcourt to finally gel are enormous..provided Tyson doesn’t get hurt in London or isn’t too worn down. Add to that that with or without Nash we actually have a PG..it’s an exciting and anxiety filled time for me right now. Our team is not quite set yet..but as is, we are alot better than we’ve shown. But that all hinges on Melo and Stat puttin some pride aside for the betterment of the team. Melo is hands down the alpha dog, as he should be. Stat is the sidekick..but no less dangerous or important. Tyson is the Alfred to their Batman and Robin..the backbone. It can work, everybody just needs to buy in..and that’s a HUGE job for Coach Woodson.

    30. How the hell do the Nets fit Johnson, Howard, D-Will AND Wallace under their cap? How is that possible unless D-Will takes a rather large salary haircut?

    31. JK47: How the hell do the Nets fit Johnson, Howard, D-Will AND Wallace under their cap? How is that possible unless D-Will takes a rather large salary haircut?

      In theory: A sign-and-trade involving Lopez and Humphries.
      In reality: It’s not happening.

    32. JK47: How the hell do the Nets fit Johnson, Howard, D-Will AND Wallace under their cap? How is that possible unless D-Will takes a rather large salary haircut?

      Requires a lot of sign and trades. Basically, the Nets use their Bird Rights to sign Brook Lopez and Kris Humphries to major deals, pushing well above the salary cap. They would simultaneously trade them (along with other S&T players) to the Magic, in return for Howard and Hedo. This is one of the loopholes that the NBA owners wanted to close, and starting next season the new CBA forbids a sign-and-trade if the team will be above the Apron ($4 million above the taxpayer level) or if the team used the Taxpayer MLE.

    33. JK47:
      How the hell do the Nets fit Johnson, Howard, D-Will AND Wallace under their cap?How is that possible unless D-Will takes a rather large salary haircut?

      I’m not understanding why the Nets would use their MLE right now when they are yet to finish these other deals, now they can’t go over 74m period, so anything they do is going to have to fit within that.

    34. If this Steve Nash thing works out (which it should because this is the most talented roster he’s being offered at a competitive price) and we keep Lin, JR, Novak, and Jeffries, I think we could really have a chance at the #1 seed. Chicago has held that down for two years, but that won’t happen since Derrick Rose won’t be playing until midseason. Miami’s division got weaker, and ours got tougher, but if we can get Amar’e in Phoenix form with Melo in Knicks form (he hasn’t posted a WS/48 lower than .157 here, compared to career number at .129) to go along with the always awesome basketball of Chandler and Nash? Our starting line up would be downright nasty. And then you’d have Mobb Deep in Lin, Smith, Novak, Jeffries, and possibly Camby.
      I’m not sure if we will get the #1 seed in the conference, but adding Nash to that group of players makes it more plausible. If we really want to win this year, we  every advantage we can get, including home court over the Heat.

    35. How about if we include Shump in the Nash S&T with the condition that they take TD’s 2 mil? Would that allow us the full 5 mil MLE so we can give it to Ray Allen and just go for it? Nash/Allen/melo/Amare/Chandler with Lin/JR/Novak/Jordan on the bench?

    36. DANG, any possible Houston offer is better than that Nets offer, I’m sorry. I would take Jordan Hill, Lowry and picks over the Brooks/Lopez. And Houston would take him unsigned I believe.

      I just don’t see how the Nets do this.

      They’re still a lot better with Johnson and Teletovic. Johnson’s grossly overpaid, but he had a nice Melo-ish year last year. He might benefit from having a real point guard and a back to the basket big.

      And re: Nash, how does Phoenix do that deal w/o Shump? Otherwise, they can just save the cap space and give Fields a miniMLE offer, which is what he’s worth. I think he will end up in Toronto.

      If that’s the case, who are we targeting at the shooting guard spot/backup pg spot?

    37. Spree8nyk8: I’m not understanding why the Nets would use their MLE right now when they are yet to finish these other deals, now they can’t go over 74m period, so anything they do is going to have to fit within that

      I am fairly confident that this puts an end to the idea of the Nets taking back Howard and Hedo, who togeter are $30 million this year. Nets cannot go over $74 million, and they are already over $44 million with just four players.

      Johnson ($19 million)
      Williams ($15.5 million)
      Wallace ($8.5 million)
      Telotovic ($5 million)
      = $48 million.

      So, the Nets essentially cannot offer the Magic a salary dump as part of a Howoard trade unless they moved one of those four pieces.

    38. JK47:
      How the hell do the Nets fit Johnson, Howard, D-Will AND Wallace under their cap?How is that possible unless D-Will takes a rather large salary haircut?

      Prokhorov is even richer than Dolan…he’ll probably care even less about the tax.

    39. ess-dog:
      DANG, any possible Houston offer is better than that Nets offer, I’m sorry.I would take Jordan Hill, Lowry and picks over the Brooks/Lopez.And Houston would take him unsigned I believe.

      I just don’t see how the Nets do this.

      They’re still a lot better with Johnson and Teletovic.Johnson’s grossly overpaid, but he had a nice Melo-ish year last year.He might benefit from having a real point guard and a back to the basket big.

      And re: Nash, how does Phoenix do that deal w/o Shump?Otherwise, they can just save the cap space and give Fields a miniMLE offer, which is what he’s worth.I think he will end up in Toronto.

      If that’s the case, who are we targeting at the shooting guard spot/backup pg spot?

      JR Smith at the 2 and until another name comes up, Toney Douglas?

    40. The Raptors just made an offer to Landry. Are they trying to sabotage the potential sign-and-trade for Nash?

    41. The Raptors have signed Landry Fields to an offer sheet, wonder how that affects the ability of the Knicks to S/T him for Nash.

    42. So Fields has signed an offer sheet with Toronto. That’s a major setback in terms of trying to get Nash. It basically eliminates all the scenarios in which we could get within the neighborhood of what Toronto was offering. He’d have to be willing to take way, way less to come here.

    43. Richmond County:
      The Raptors just made an offer to Landry.Are they trying to sabotage the potential sign-and-trade for Nash?

      If it’s a lot of money that Phoenix won’t want to take on in a trade, then it’s possible, right?

    44. 2FOR18: How about if we include Shump in the Nash S&T with the condition that they take TD’s 2 mil? Would that allow us the full 5 mil MLE so we can give it to Ray Allen and just go for it? Nash/Allen/melo/Amare/Chandler with Lin/JR/Novak/Jordan on the bench?

      No, it would not clear enough space. Existing contracts

      Melo – $19.5 million
      Stat – $19.9 million
      Chandler $13.5 million
      Balkman – $1.6 million (ugh)
      = $55.5 million

      New contracts

      Lin – $5.3 million
      Nash – $8.6 million
      JR Smith – $2.8 million
      Novak – $3 million (estimated)
      = $19.7 million

      Total is already over $74 million, which is the hard cap if a team uses the full MLE.

    45. Supposedly 3 years approaching 20M for Landry. I think at that price you let him walk. I like Landry a ton and if his jumper comes back it definitely might be something we end up regretting, but I just don’t think his game is a good fit with the current roster. We need more floor spacing at the 2.

    46. Stein just posted the Fields contract is $20 mil with a third year spike a la Asik. FML.

    47. ess-dog:
      DANG, any possible Houston offer is better than that Nets offer, I’m sorry.I would take Jordan Hill, Lowry and picks over the Brooks/Lopez.And Houston would take him unsigned I believe.

      I would too…but Hill got traded to the Kobe’s in the Fisher trade

    48. Spree8nyk8: The Raptors have signed Landry Fields to an offer sheet, wonder how that affects the ability of the Knicks to S/T him for Nash.

      Totally eliminates the possibility of using Fields in a sign and trade. You cannot sign and trade a player who you kept by matching.

    49. ephus: Totally eliminates the possibility of using Fields in a sign and trade.You cannot sign and trade a player who you kept by matching.

      Right. We could sign and trade them JR Smith I guess to replace some of that lost salary, but our offer to Nash would still be woefully light, and honestly, if this Fields thing signals anything it’s that Toronto is going all in to get Nash. They’ll raise their offer if necessary. I think the Nash dream is completely dead.

    50. Yup, this is Toronto going all-in on Nash. Unless he now wants to come here at a severe discount, that sign-and-trade’s not happening.

      On the one hand, I was ambivalent about what signing Nash would do to Lin’s development. On the other, we had a chance to get one of the best PGs ever, and we’re now likely to lose a guy whom we needed for depth, at least until Shump comes back.

    51. massive:
      I hate the Raptors.

      (in my best Charlie Brown voice) UUUUUUUGGGGGGGHHHH! F’n Raptors!!! I hope they didn’t offer a PPP

    52. If the Knicks were so desperate for Nash, why don’t they orchestrate a sign-and-trade for Fields/Calderon w/ Toronto? Toronto saves its amnesty, Knicks grab Calderon before he hits waivers?

      That is, if signing someone like Nash is that important.

    53. Hahn just posted another wrinkle to this. Toronto is after Lin as well. Landry is Lin’s best friend. Is it enough to draw Lin to Toronto? Doubtful. Would it upset Lin that the Knicks let his handshake partner walk? Maybe a little? All the same it’s one more shrewd move from America’s hat. Toronto is straight scheming right now.

    54. I like Landry Fields and I hope he bounces back, but if he plays for the Raptors with Nash, we may need to create a new statistic:

      Assists Left on Table (ALOT)

      for all the times Nash hits a wide open Fields who then misses the shot.

    55. Ok..I jus checked an it is a PPP…welp..good news is they won’t offer Lin the same type of deal. Now we really need re-inforcement on the wing. Who’s available? I could see us matching that type of offer to Lin..but Fields? No chance. Valuable player to us..but not that valuable considering we have Melo as a wing to match that offer. Damn. I really hoped we could hold on to Fields either as a S&T chip or a back up for Melo. Starting 2 if he re-discovers his shot. Damn again. OK..methinks Grunny needs to get movin..or am I panicking?

    56. Richmond County:
      Hahn just posted another wrinkle to this.Toronto is after Lin as well.Landry is Lin’s best friend.Is it enough to draw Lin to Toronto? Doubtful.Would it upset Lin that the Knicks let his handshake partner walk? Maybe a little?All the same it’s one more shrewd move from America’s hat.Toronto is straight scheming right now.

      I don’t know if you can call any move to pay Landry Fields 20M over the next 3 years shrewd, lol. It’s definitely scheming though. I’m just not sure that the scheming is worth it.

    57. I gotta admit..smart shrewd move by Colangelo..especially if he lands Nash or Lin. I still can’t see Lin goin there to play with Fields..I don’t think Colangelo would offer up 2 PPP’s..but maybe he will. In that case maybe Grunny should look into a S&T for Calderon involving Lin and add Nash as a FA. Colangelo’s no dummy so I doubt he would offer the same type of deal to Lin..so maybe Grunny can work a S&T with Fields and throw Douglas in for Calderon and let Toronto have Nash. Only way we save face in the Fields offer

    58. Looks like Berri’s numbers will be put to the test, huh…

    59. I would not match on Fields at these prices. Under the CBA, because the offer sheet is subject to the Gilbert Arenas rule, all seasons must be guaranteed. Since the Knicks are likely to be a taxpayer in each of the next three years, they would pay $25.75 million in tax on the $10 million kicker.

    60. I’m w Ephus. Let those idiots have Landry for $20M / 3 years. That ends up being one of those sneaky-bad contracts that hurts your team.

      If this spells the end for Nash (and I’m not 100% sure of that – he loves NYC), so be it. There are other good points out there and we could also devote resources to other areas that need shoring-up (like the 2).

    61. If I was Orlando, I’d keep Howard, at least until the trade deadline, unless I can get Bynum for him. You know that if he is healthy, you are going to at least the 2nd round with him next year. Trade him to the nets, you may not make the playoffs. 2 rounds of playoffs is like 6 home games….what do you figure the profit is on each? then, worse case, he walks and you have cap space. It beats over-paying lopez.

    62. By the way, since we live on Jupiter now and Landry Fields is worth $20 mil, how much is JR Smith worth?

    63. Nash isn’t coming here for one year, and he’s not coming to be a backup. Lin will get an offer from someone, which we have to match. Lets assume it’s for a lot of $$. So, you’re paying a lot of $$ for a guy to be your backup pg for 2 years. You aren’t playing either of them big minutes at the 2. Please, Please, focus on keeping Lin and getting a 2.

      Think about next years playoffs, vs Miami. Who guards Wade? Lin? Nash? You have to hope it’s shump, for 40 mins. which means one of these two guys sits. Why invest now in a guy who can’t be on the floor when you need it?

    64. Chad Ford is speculating about a 4 year offer by the Knicks to Nash, but it cannot work because of the Over 36 Rule. Because Nash is over 36, the fourth year of any contract that he signs is divided into the first three years for salary cap purposes. So if Nash signed a 4 year / $42 million contract, the salary cap figure for this year would be $14 million.

    65. Toronto is also sending a signal to the Knicks: Lin or Nash…choose one, cuz you’re not getting both

    66. The Terry thing has been reported by Marc Spears of Yahoo. Pretty nice signing for the Celtics if it goes through. Not as good a shooter as Ray Allen, but a couple years younger, and already comfortable coming off the bench if they prefer to start Bradley. They’re old, but come playoff time if they’re healthy and noone falls off a cliff Rondo, KG, Pierce, Bradley, Jet, Jeff Green and Bass + another big is a tough, tough out. Should pave the way for Allen to the Heat.

    67. On Fields, the Raptors are betting a lot on him regaining his shot. In the S&T to Phoenix, I was expecting that only the first year of the deal would be guaranteed, which would have given Phoenix a valuable expiring contract to trade at the deadline. Fields would have only pocketed $5.0 million. The Raptors MUST guarantee all three years to make the $20 million offer. Great deal for Fields.

    68. Great deal for Fields. I really don’t get Toronto’s obsession with Nash other than that he’s Canadian… he’s not the missing piece to their championship team– this is all about ownership trying to get stars on the team to get butts in seats… another reason they are obsessed with Lin, they are not making any kind of bet on Fields, he’s just the pawn to get to Nash.

      ephus:
      On Fields, the Raptors are betting a lot on him regaining his shot.In the S&T to Phoenix, I was expecting that only the first year of the deal would be guaranteed, which would have given Phoenix a valuable expiring contract to trade at the deadline.Fields would have only pocketed $5.0 million.The Raptors MUST guarantee all three years to make the $20 million offer.Great deal for Fields.

    69. Adrian Wojnarowski ?@WojYahooNBA
      As @SpearsNBAYahoo reports, Celtics finalizing deal with Jason Terry. Boston is still determined to keep Ray Allen too, sources say.

    70. Yeah, it’s amazing that Fields could play like such garbage and still get that contract.

      I would go ahead and offer a signed Lin to Phoenix for Nash.
      Nash/JR/Melo/Stat/Chandler is a top 4 team in the league.

      Bench is weak, but a lot of vets would want to come with that lineup.

    71. Spree8nyk8:
      Adrian Wojnarowski ?@WojYahooNBA
      As @SpearsNBAYahoo reports, Celtics finalizing deal with Jason Terry. Boston is still determined to keep Ray Allen too, sources say.

      According to Stein, Terry will also give the Mavs a chance to counter before agreeing to the deal. I don’t understand the “Boston is determined to keep Ray Allen too” part of this AT ALL. They’d have Rondo, Bradley, Terry and Allen in the backcourt? None of those guys can guard 3s at all unless the other team is going super small, and Rondo is a very big minutes guy. In the playoffs if he’s playing 45+, you have about 50 minutes for the Bradley, Allen, Terry group. Can’t see any of them being happy about that.

    72. ess-dog:
      Yeah, it’s amazing that Fields could play like such garbage and still get that contract.

      I would go ahead and offer a signed Lin to Phoenix for Nash.
      Nash/JR/Melo/Stat/Chandler is a top 4 team in the league.

      Bench is weak, but a lot of vets would want to come with that lineup.

      thank christ you aren’t a gm

    73. Grunwald’s plan is to let the market set Jeremy Lin’s price. So any meetings with Toronto or Houston are just to let Lin bring the Knicks his price that we’ll inevitably match.

      I still think we can get Nash and Lin. Lin isn’t going anywhere, Nash is the wild card in this.

    74. Beginning to think this whole let the market set the prices for the Knicks FA’s plan by Grunwald is going to backfire big time.

    75. johnlocke: Great deal for Fields. I really don’t get Toronto’s obsession with Nash other than that he’s Canadian… he’s not the missing piece to their championship team– this is all about ownership trying to get stars on the team to get butts in seats… another reason they are obsessed with Lin, they are not making any kind of bet on Fields, he’s just the pawn to get to Nash.

      I agree about Toronto’s obsession, if you’re a diehard Raptors fan (and I’m assuming there are several) how are you feeling about throwing all that money at a guy who has at most 3-4 years of shelf life left and doesn’t put you anywhere close to contending? Plus, to make it happen you’re throwing $20MM at Landry Fields? I would be pissed if I were a Raptors rooter.

    76. Looks like Houston is going to make a serious run at Lin because they might let Dragic walk because of his contract demands.

    77. BigBlueAL:
      Beginning to think this whole let the market set the prices for the Knicks FA’s plan by Grunwald is going to backfire big time.

      The only backfiring will happen to Dolan’s wallet, which will be benefited by Lin’s popularity anyway. Even if it’s a 4 year deal we only have Lin and Shumpert on the cap after the 14-15 season, and we will be taxpayers up until that regardless.

      Gotta be honest- id rather get a vet’s min PG to back up Lin and sign Marcus Camby with the mini. Much harder to find a very underpaid big man who is old but still REALLY good than it is to find someone to play for 15 min per game behind Jeremy. Even Bibby would be ok for that role.

    78. ess-dog: Yeah, it’s amazing that Fields could play like such garbage and still get that contract.I would go ahead and offer a signed Lin to Phoenix for Nash.Nash/JR/Melo/Stat/Chandler is a top 4 team in the league.Bench is weak, but a lot of vets would want to come with that lineup.

      Even if the Knicks wanted to do this, they could not. The maximum deal the Knicks can offer Lin is 4 year MLE ($22 million). They can go above that number only to match an offer sheet, but a contract signed as a result of a matched offer sheet cannot be used in a sign-and-trade. Lin is not going to receive an offer sheet that includes a back-end kicker, and once he signs it, he cannot be used in a sign-and-trade.

    79. Good for Fields. It is too bad that it came as a result of Toronto c-blocking the Knicks, but at least it worked out okay for Fields.

      Now you figure Shump would have to be in any theoretical deal for Nash, right? With Shump, Jordan, Toney and Gadzuric, the Knicks can offer as much as $7 million a year to Nash, right? Perhaps a re-signed Steve Novak for $4 million would add another $2 million to that (Morrow is available, so I’d just sign him). Would $9 million cut it if Toronto is offering $14 million?

      The problem is, as my brother (who is a big Nash fan) has told me for years is that Nash, for whatever reason, has always gone where the money was. So it seems hard to believe he’ll change that now.

    80. massive:

      I still think we can get Nash and Lin.

      How exactly? Only chance is a S&T. Fields was our only tradeable asset. I’m not sure they’ll go for Shump who’s knee recently imploded. I guess what people are saying is that we can’t match an offer for Lin and then trade him right? It looks like no Nash and an expensive Lin for us. Could be worse I suppose, but I feel sad for anyone that thinks Lin = future hall of famer Steve Nash.

      Window’s closin’!

    81. BigBlueAL:
      Looks like Houston is going to make a serious run at Lin because they might let Dragic walk because of his contract demands.

      I don’t understand why we wait to let the market set the price when the only people that are even going to bid are teams that want to fuck us over. Obviously the Knicks are going to match so signing him to anything but a poison pill is super unlikely. But we are just gonna wait and swallow it.

    82. For the record, I want no part of Felton again. He has a history of being a malcontent when he doesn’t get the playing time, and he couldn’t even get himself in shape for a contract year. If we must sign a PG type then give me Hinrich or Kidd for the mini MLE or even Carlos arroyo for the minimum.

    83. I don’t understand why we wait to let the market set the price when the only people that are even going to bid are teams that want to fuck us over. Obviously the Knicks are going to match so signing him to anything but a poison pill is super unlikely. But we are just gonna wait and swallow it.

      The Knicks can’t set Lin’s price, so why bother? It is not like them offering the max they are allowed is going to make Lin say, “Oh, okay, I’ll just take that and not see if I can more than double that from another team.”

      They’re playing the Lin thing the only way they can, which is wait to see what the biggest offer sheet is that he gets and then match it.

    84. There seem to be more dollars floating around and making big offers than I would have expected. None of the owners can talk about what their financial results were last year until at least the new season’s salary cap is set on July 11. But they have to have some idea if revenues were better than expected or not. So their behavior so far suggests to me that the cap is going to go up, and maybe substantially.

      I don’t mind Grunwald making Lin wait for an offer. Even if he wants to sign him no matter what he has to match, it’s still better to wait. He doesn’t risk pissing Lin off by making an offer that’s too low in retrospect after other offers come in. And if offers don’t come in too high he can make Lin very happy with his offer, which couldn’t hurt if he wants Lin resigned.

    85. Brian Cronin:

      The problem is, as my brother (who is a big Nash fan) has told me for years is that Nash, for whatever reason, has always gone where the money was.

      That applies to everyone on the planet.

      “Hey Brian, you love NYC, right? Come play with us it will be great. Don’t live in Toronto, which is pretty close by and in your native country. Sure you spend 3 months a year in NYC, but why not spend 9? All you have to do is give up FOUR MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR.”

    86. That applies to everyone on the planet.

      That’s not true. People make decisions based on things other than money all the time. Especially veteran NBA players who have never won a ring. Karl Malone, for instance, took the vet minimum in 2004 when he could have easily made over $10 million a year on the open market.

      A few years back, Nash could have made $6 million a year to play for a good team competing for a title. He chose to stay in Phoenix because they offered more money than anyone else.

    87. There are still sign and trade opportunities for the Knicks to bring in Nash, but in order to get up to the level of the Fields offer, the Knicks would have to include JR Smith (alone) or Novak (@$3 million) and Shumpert (together). I don’t think that Smith would agree to a sign-and-trade to Phoenix. In fact, I am concerned that Smith may get an offer that turns his head away from the Knicks $2.8 million with a player option.

    88. ess-dog: That applies to everyone on the planet.

      “Hey Brian, you love NYC, right?Come play with us it will be great.Don’t live in Toronto, which is pretty close by and in your native country.Sure you spend 3 months a year in NYC, but why not spend 9?All you have to do is give up FOUR MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR.”

      That’s probably true for most. But I do know a few very wealthy people, and they all agree that past a certain point, the amount of money you have doesn’t matter re your lifestyle, and then people start spending more and more money on experiences. Playing in NYC for the NBA championship would qualify as that.

      What’s the max we can offer the suns without Shumpert? Is it 125 or 150% of TD (2), JJ (760), harrellson(760K), and gadzuric (1.7)? That’s still more than the MLE, prob 6-7M per year? Throw in 2-3M cash to to pay for TD. It’s not like Nash will be in the poorhouse making that.

      But yes, it’s a far cry from what Toronto is offering.

    89. OK, but if we sign Nash and Lin we are likely looking at over 70 mil for five players in three years, assuming Lin gets a back-loaded contract. That’s pretty nuts!

    90. I think its time to unfortunately forget about the Knicks making any big moves and just hope they keep Lin/Novak/Smith and add a decent backup veteran player or 2.

      At least thats where Im at right now lol

    91. Yeah, I didn’t even mention JR Smith because there’s no way in the world he’d ever accept roughly $3 million to play for a team not the Knicks. Novak, though, at $4 million a year for three years (with only the first year guaranteed) would be appetizing to Phoenix, I’d imagine, and the Knicks could swing that.

    92. OK, but if we sign Nash and Lin we are likely looking at over 70 mil for five players in three years, assuming Lin gets a back-loaded contract. That’s pretty nuts!

      It’s extremely nuts, but hey, if there’s ever been one thing Dolan has been good at, it’s spending money.

    93. In the words of Snoop from tv show “the wire” – DESERVE GOT NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. Happy trails L.F.

    94. Wow, I’m getting dizzy with all of this. At this point, I’d give up on Nash and sign Lin. Perspective-wise, just a couple of weeks ago it seemed like we had no chance at Nash and were going to have to choose between Lin and Novak with nothing left but vet’s minimum left. Now, we can sign Lin and Novak and still have some $ left for another decent piece. Fields is probably gonna get better, but at $20 million, let the Raptors have him.

      If it comes down to signing Lin to a shitty poison-pill contract, is there a realistic way to get Dragic or Lowry instead of Lin? Truth is, either of these guys might turn out to be better than Lin. Then sign that guy from Spain as a backup?

    95. If Nash wants to play for a winner that’s near his hometown, he should call up Portland… they need a point guard badly.

      I’m curious about what Terry’s price will be.

    96. Meanwhile, good thing we just drafted the Greek Landry Fields.

      Actually Big Papa actually has a history of coming up big in the big games – MVP or euro league final 4 wasn’t he?

      And in that light, Whatever are we going to do without Landry’s career 41.6 TS, 20% TO-R, -0.066 WS/48 playoff averages?

    97. Maybe Patrick will come back and play for us with Isiah. Alan can star from the bench.

      Dear Loard, help us!

    98. Wow Terry is a terrific add for the celtics,
      I would take him over nash, just because we got lin.

      Look at the atlanta devision, nets, pily, knicks boston, even toronto may be good. i just realy hope the nets will screw thing up.

    99. Terry really is quite a get for the Celtics. One of their problems is teams basically leaving Rondo alone but with Terry there you have to guard him.

    100. By the way, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a player with a better outside shot with such an awful TS% as Hinrich. In 2010-11, he shot 42% from three but still had just a 53% TS%. Fuck the heck?

    101. First who cares if Dolan/Cablevision pay Luxury tax. I would match Field offer if we think he can find his shot? If doesn’t improve he is extremely hard to trade and should not be in the Knicks rotation.

      His rookie season he show very good improvement on shot % compare to his Senior in college. FT went from 69.6% senior in college to 76.9% in his rookie year. Last year he shot 56.2 %. Basically I’m like WTF? Why change your shot if improve your % 3 years in row. Now again rookie season shot 39.3% from 3. Best he shoot in college was 36.8% and of course college 3pt line is shorter. Last year he shot 25.6%. Seem like his rookie year was possible anomaly.

      I believe Knicks have 3 days after July 11 to match or decline offer sheet?

      If Glen even thinks about match offer, Knicks should ask Laundry to do work out. If he declines, we should let him go. If he come, it show he want to stay on the team. If he improves on his FT and 3’s, shows he been working out this off-season. Then probably worth it to match and you can pencil him in at the starting 2. If his shot still looks broken, tell him you wish him the best of luck.

    102. Also, as someone else alluded to, what the heck is JR Smith going to think about signing for less than half of what Landry Fields is going to be making a year?

    103. Who cares about the Celtics really? And I think and not because I dislike them but is a terrible move. They cleared all this cap space to sign more aging vets on the downside of their careers. Back to our beloved Knicks. The simple move here is to
      A. Sign Lin, Novak. Morrow/ Camby or Both.

      B. Sign Nash. Novak. Sign Morrow.

      Your call Grunny and you should have drafted Machado.

    104. I believe Knicks have 3 days after July 11 to match or decline offer sheet?

      Yes, although it is better phrased, “The Knicks have 3 days after July 11 to decline the offer sheet.”

    105. A. Sign Lin, Novak. Morrow/ Camby or Both.

      Toney Douglas is your back-up point guard in that scenario.

      B. Sign Nash. Novak. Sign Morrow.

      Is basically not an option, since they really can’t realistically spend the MLE and Nash will likely not even sign for the MLE, let alone less than the MLE.

    106. Frank: by Refueled | Log o

      Kidd’s going wherever Deron’s going, and Hinrich, unfortunately, looks like he’ going to Chi for more than we can pay.

    107. KnickfaninNJ:
      There seem to be more dollars floating around and making big offers than I would have expected. None of the owners can talk about what their financial results were last year until at least the new season’ssalary cap is set on July 11. But they have to have some idea if revenues were better than expected or not.So their behavior so far suggests to me that the cap is going to go up, and maybe substantially.

      I don’t mind Grunwald making Lin wait for an offer.Even if he wants to sign him no matter what he has to match, it’s still better to wait.He doesn’t risk pissing Lin off by making anoffer that’s too low in retrospect after other offers come in.And if offers don’t come in too high he can make Lin very happy with his offer, which couldn’t hurt if he wants Lin resigned.

      Teams have to spend 95% of the cap; that’s why players like Fields get overpaid every year.

    108. Do we really have anything left but Melo, Stat and Tyson? Maybe Lin and JR? Keep up the good work Mr Dolan and bring the ring to NY.

    109. Do we really have anything left but Melo, Stat and Tyson? Maybe Lin and JR? Keep up the good work Mr Dolan and bring the ring to NY.

      As of right this second, the Knicks can realistically put out a roster of:

      Lin
      ___(possibly Smith, but how does he re-sign for $3 million when Fields is making $7?)____/Shump
      Melo
      Amar’e
      Chandler

      with a bench of:
      Novak
      Mini-MLE guy (probably a PG)
      Jeffries
      Jorts
      Jordan
      Douglas
      Vet minimum guy
      Vet minimum guy

      That’s a playoff caliber team. Not a realistic title contender, but a playoff caliber team. And Atlanta is going to be worse this year, so that helps. Indiana might lose Hibbert. That would help.

      And they can still have their longshot chance at Nash (which would allow them to bring in Camby with the mini-MLE instead of having to use it on a point).

    110. Brian Cronin:
      As of right this second, the Knicks can realistically put out a roster of:

      Lin
      ___(possibly Smith, but how does he re-sign for $3 million when Fields is making $7?)____/Shump
      Melo
      Amar’e
      Chandler

      with a bench of:
      Novak
      Mini-MLE guy (probably a PG)
      Jeffries
      Jorts
      Jordan
      Douglas
      Vet minimum guy
      Vet minimum guy

      That’s a playoff caliber team. Not a realistic title contender, but a playoff caliber team. And Atlanta is going to be worse this year, so that helps. Indiana might lose Hibbert. That would help.

      And they can still have their longshot chance at Nash.

      According to ruru, that roster will be making Miami quake in their high tops.

    111. If Kidd goes to the Nets, it will have to be for the BAE, because they just used the MLE to sign Telotovic.

    112. I don’t get this from Frank Isola at all:

      If Fields ends up in Toronto that would increase the chances of free agent J.R. Smith re-signing with the Knicks

      The two weren’t connected in the first place (as in, it wasn’t like the Knicks were going to pass on Smith if they re-signed Fields) but how does Fields signing for $7 million increase the chances of JR Smith accepting $3 million?

    113. Brian Cronin: As of right this second, the Knicks can realistically put out a roster of:Lin___(possibly Smith, but how does he re-sign for $3 million when Fields is making $7?)____/ShumpMeloAmar’eChandlerwith a bench of:NovakMini-MLE guy (probably a PG)JeffriesJortsJordanDouglasVet minimum guyVet minimum guyThat’s a playoff caliber team. Not a realistic title contender, but a playoff caliber team. And Atlanta is going to be worse this year, so that helps. Indiana might lose Hibbert. That would help.And they can still have their longshot chance at Nash (which would allow them to bring in Camby with the mini-MLE instead of having to use it on a point).

      Ahhhhhh…the sweet smell of average!!

    114. Ahhhhhh…the sweet smell of average!!

      Hehe, hey, I’m not thrilled either, but it is not like the Knicks are screwed or anything. And if they pull the Nash deal off (and then sign Camby), they would suddenly get a whole lot better.

    115. Maybe we can sing Teletubbies from UK. Nets allready have their own version of that………….

    116. Brian Cronin: ___(possibly Smith, but how does he re-sign for $3 million when Fields is making $7?)____/

      Because no one is offering him the full MLE, let alone $7 million/year? If he gets a fully guaranteed full MLE offer, he would be foolish not to take it. On the other hand, Smith has frequently been foolish and he seems to have enjoyed his life much more than many other NBA players. From the outside looking in, it seems as if JR Smith has had much more fun in New York than in any of his previous stops.

    117. By the way, while I do believe Woodson is, at heart, an iso-coach, it is not like iso-driven offenses are inherently bad or anything like that. Woodson’s Hawks were good on offense. It was defensively where they struggled. Meanwhile, the iso-driven Nuggets were one of the best offensive teams in the league for years.

    118. Do you know who would be a great fit with this current assortment of Knicks players? Anthony Randolph! D’Antoni wouldn’t play him in the post, but I bet Woodson would. And you might be able to get Randolph for the vet minimum for a year.

    119. Chad Ford:

      Knicks could offer Shumpert, Douglas, Gadzuric, Harrellson & Jordan to Suns & get Nash to starting # of $9.9 M

      Is that accurate? That doesn’t sound accurate.

      Also, Ford suggests a 4 year/$42 million deal, but Nash can’t sign a 4-year deal, right? Not without more money counted in the first year, right?

    120. I’d vastly prefer Morrow over JR Smith on the Knicks next year.

      Morrow would be a great fit off of the bench (can you imagine pairing Morrow and Novak in a bench squad?), but I dunno if you can start him as he is such an awful defender.

    121. I’m really shocked more buzz isn’t being made about Gerald Green. He quietly had a better half-year than Morrow (minus the WTF AMMO game) AND JR.

      He’s still an incredibly unfocused defender, but he has become such a skilled offensive threat.

      I’m not sure I would rather have Morrow than JR Smith, though. Even at similar salaries.

    122. Morrow would be nice. He’s the destitute man’s Allan Houston.

      All kidding aside, it would be nice to have a guard who can drain a jumper from time to time. Between TD, Fields, Shump, JR, Baron and Bibby we had some of the stinkiest guard shooting I’ve ever seen.

    123. 2FOR18: Teams have to spend 95% of the cap; that’s why players like Fields get overpaid every year.

      You make a very good point, but I am still not sure the caps going to stay the same.

      Brian, I can’t beleive any ones actually advocating Anthony Randolph as a good add to the team. It seems like every coach he’s ever played for has stopped giving him many minutes after a while because he doesn’t know when to do what. I don’t recall his efficiency stats being very good either.

    124. I loved Gerald Green in the draft back in the day (if our archives here go that far back you’d see me wishing that the Knicks could get him), but I have no faith in him anymore despite his inspired play in the second half of last season. But sure, on a vet minimum contract I’d take him.

    125. And Fields may end up being Toronto’s Jared Jeffries, popular when he’s paid right, but a real sore point when overpaid.

    126. I think Chad Ford is wrong. The calculation for the Knicks is (outgoing salary x 125%) + $100,000:

      Shumpert: $1.68 million
      Gadzuric: $1.35 million
      Douglas: $2.06 million
      Harrellson: $.76 million
      Jordan: $.76 million
      ___________________
      Total: $6.61 million
      x 1.25 = $8.26 million
      plus $100k = $8.36 million.

      Ford has done has calculation as if the Knicks were not a taxpaying team, in which case the relevant calculation would be (outgoing salary x 150%) + $100,000.

      As I wrote above, Ford is wrong about the Knicks being able to use a four year deal, because the Over-36 rule collapses one-third of that salary into the first year for salary cap purposes.

      In order for the Knicks to put together a sign-and-trade that gives Nash equal salary to the big offer from Toronto, Smith and Novak would have to be included. I doubt Smith is going along with that one.

    127. JK47: Morrow would be nice. He’s the destitute man’s Allan Houston. All kidding aside, it would be nice to have a guard who can drain a jumper from time to time. Between TD, Fields, Shump, JR, Baron and Bibby we had some of the stinkiest guard shooting I’ve ever seen.

      JR Smith scored 1.07 PPP on spot-up shooting and shot 39.5% on spot up threes this year. Compare to Morrow’s 36% on spot up threes.

      I’m not here for the JR Smith slander!!

    128. TelegraphedPass: JR Smith scored 1.07 PPP on spot-up shooting and shot 39.5% on spot up threes this year. Compare to Morrow’s 36% on spot up threes.

      I’m not here for the JR Smith slander!!

      Smith literally does everything better than Morrow, and is much better on defense and playmaking.

      Once again the central premise of advanced stats is exposed as a paradox, the more a player can do, the more he does, the less efficient he becomes.

    129. I don’t recall his efficiency stats being very good either.

      When played as a post player, Randolph has been very strong overall (although yes, his scoring has always been mediocre – the Knicks wouldn’t be using him for post scoring, though). He’s put up high PERs for every team that has played him the in the post. The Knicks, in one of D’Antoni’s oddest decisions ever, played him on the perimeter (which is, of course, where Randolph wanted to play, but why would you ever listen to him on how he is best used?) His issue in Minnesota is that he happened to be backing up one of the best post players in the NBA.

      Do coaches dislike him? It sure seems that way. He’s likely a head case. But he is a six ten head case that has a career rebound rate of 15.9% (which would be second on the Knicks last year among guys who played more than 2 games) and a career block rate of 4.4% (which would be tops on the Knicks among guys who played more than 2 games) and is…wait for it…23 years old!!!

    130. Wonder if Dragic or West could slip through the cracks with the Williams deal.

    131. Brian Cronin: When played as a post player, Randolph has been very strong overall (although yes, his scoring has always been mediocre – the Knicks wouldn’t be using him for post scoring, though). He’s put up high PERs for every team that has played him the in the post. The Knicks, in one of D’Antoni’s oddest decisions ever, played him on the perimeter (which is, of course, where Randolph wanted to play, but why would you ever listen to him on how he is best used?) His issue in Minnesota is that he happened to be backing up one of the best post players in the NBA.

      Do coaches dislike him? It sure seems that way. He’s likely a head case. But he is a six ten head case that has a career rebound rate of 15.9% (which would be second on the Knicks last year among guys who played more than 2 games) and a career block rate of 4.4% (which would be tops on the Knicks among guys who played more than 2 games) and is…wait for it…23 years old!!!

      I’d prefer Randolph over Camby every time.

    132. There are so many things to like and dislike about Ant Rand. My biggest issue with him on this team, other than him just being generally unreliable, is his terrible post defense. I remember him being too weak in GS and just bad in New York. His Synergy numbers look awful as well down there.

      How would you want to acquire him, Brian?

      Also: I’m almost afraid to ask it, but Mike Beasley’s still on the market right? Am I the only one wondering how that would work out here?

    133. I’d prefer Randolph over Camby every time.

      I love Camby, but with the ages factored in, I might agree with you on that. 23 years old next season, people!

    134. *hits head* Had no idea Randolph’s contract had ended already. I seriously doubt he doesn’t get a more attractive offer from another team, though.

    135. ruruland: Smith literally does everything better than Morrow, and is much better on defense and playmaking.

      Other than selecting which shots to take. Which is a pretty darn important skill for a role player, or any player for that matter (Melo, looking at you).

      They’d really be a great pairing though. JR, Morrow and Shump (when he returns) would provide excellent depth and variety at the SG position. Then we can fill a backup big or PG spot with the mini-MLE and find a decent vet min player for the other spot. All dependent on keeping Lin (or somehow getting Nash), of course.

    136. TelegraphedPass:
      *hits head* Had no idea Randolph’s contract had ended already. I seriously doubt he doesn’t get a more attractive offer from another team, though.

      He was supposed to be a Restricted FA but Minnesota thought so highly of him they didnt even bother tendering him which made him unrestricted.

    137. Our old friend extra E may become available, as Port is “reportedly” looking to buy him out.

    138. We should make lemonade out of this Fields situation and turn it into a S&T for Calderon. His contract is expiring, Toronto will have to amnesty him anyway if they want Nash, and he’s kind of the poor man’s Nash anyway (and muuuch younger).

    139. Supposedly D-Will tweeted he’s staying with NJ. So their colossal gamble paid off, now they can tout their All Star back court as they open in Brooklyn. Billy King just breathed for the first time in months.

    140. flossy:
      We should make lemonade out of this Fields situation and turn it into a S&T for Calderon.His contract is expiring, Toronto will have to amnesty him anyway if they want Nash, and he’s kind of the poor man’s Nash anyway (and muuuch younger).

      That’s a great idea. Would save the Raptors a lot of money. Doubt they go for it because of competitive reasons though. Depends on ownership.

      Is that allowable under the CBA though?

    141. Frank: flossy:
      We should make lemonade out of this Fields situation and turn it into a S&T for Calderon.His contract is expiring, Toronto will have to amnesty him anyway if they want Nash, and he’s kind of the poor man’s Nash anyway (and muuuch younger).

      That’s a great idea. Would save the Raptors a lot of money. Doubt they go for it because of competitive reasons though. Depends on ownership.

      Is that allowable under the CBA though?

        

      No. A player who is signed by matching an offer sheet cannot be traded to the team who signed him to that offer sheet for one year.

    142. I have this strange feeling that Nash may end up in Dallas. And Fields will be making $9M in 14-15 in Toronto.

    143. ephus: No.A player who is signed by matching an offer sheet cannot be traded to the team who signed him to that offer sheet for one year.

      You’re the cap expert, but I think you’re wrong about this because Fields hasn’t actually signed an offer sheet. He has just committed to sign one, but since no moves can actually be made still there is no offer sheet signed. Because of that the Knicks wouldn’t be matching the offer sheet, they’d instead make an agreement with both the Raps and Fields to sign and trade him over there instead of him signing the offer sheet with Calderon coming back this way.

    144. d-mar:
      Supposedly D-Will tweeted he’s staying with NJ. So their colossal gamble paid off, now they can tout their All Star back court as they open in Brooklyn. Billy King just breathed for the first time in months.

      And unless they get Howard and Williams plays like he did in Utah, they’re going to be out in the Conference Semifinals and everyone’s going to look mighty stupid.

      Just like the Knicks, they’ll be blowing it up sooner than later.

    145. Now that the Nets are basically capped out and don’t have any exceptions left, maybe we should make a move for Gerald Green? You cant hell but like what he brought to the table last year, and he’s a very good shooter. What the finals showed all of us is that in order to compete with those teams, you need serious athletes– GG is one of those. He would be a pretty good find for the mini-MLE if you ask me. Then sign Shawne after he gets bought out for front court depth, and pick up a vets minimum guy to back up Lin. We could do worse.

    146. ruruland:
      Wonder if Dragic or West could slip through the cracks with the Williams deal.

      How would Dragic fall through the cracks? All article saying Houston offer 9 million which he supposed turn down. Hence there attention now on Lin which probably tactic for Dragic to rethink there stance.

    147. thenamestsam: You’re the cap expert, but I think you’re wrong about this because Fields hasn’t actually signed an offer sheet. He has just committed to sign one, but since no moves can actually be made still there is no offer sheet signed. Because of that the Knicks wouldn’t be matching the offer sheet, they’d instead make an agreement with both the Raps and Fields to sign and trade him over there instead of him signing the offer sheet with Calderon coming back this way.

      With Knick being the cap I believe salary have 20% of each other. Landry make 5 mil next year and Calderon is at 10,561,985.

    148. Doesn’t look like there is anyway we get Nash realistically. I’d rather have Kidd over Felton I think. Better mentor for Lin, good passer and will be OK with back-up role. If we could get a high quality 2 guard that could shoot that would be awesome…can we get Ray Allen or sign and trade end-of-bench players to get in the mix with Mayo?

    149. The longer reason that the Knicks cannot do the Fields transaction as a sign and trade is that they do not have the ability to sign Fields to a 5/5.2/9.8 contract in the absence of an offer sheet from Toronto. The Knicks could at most sign Fields to a three year 5.3/5.7/6.1 million sheet, which still leaves Fields $3.7 million short of the deal from Toronto.

      If Fields agreed to that lower figure, then the Knicks could do a Fields for Calderon sign and trade, so long as the Knicks included an additional $1.82 million to get to $7.12 million (which you multiply by 125% and add $100 K to get to Calderon’s $9 million). Which you could do by including Toney Douglas or a combination of Gadzuric and either Jorts or Jerome Jordan.

      But I would be shocked if Fields agreed to scale back his deal by $3 million, so I do not see a sign and trade as possible.

    150. johnlocke:
      Doesn’t look like there is anyway we get Nash realistically. I’d rather have Kidd over Felton I think. Better mentor for Lin, good passer and will be OK with back-up role. If we could get a high quality 2 guard that could shoot that would be awesome…can we get Ray Allen or sign and trade end-of-bench players to get in the mix with Mayo?

      Seriously Boston who in our Division would do sign trade? Come on

    151. Just realized that Calderon makes $10.5 million next year, so the additional salary numbers would have to be adjusted. It would have to be Fields, Douglas and one of Jorts or Jerome Jordan.

      None of this going to happen because Fields is not going to agree to scale back his take from $20 million to under $17 million.

    152. BigBlueAL:
      Ric Bucher tweeted Kidd is deciding between Knicks and Mavs.

      I hope it is for the vets minimum and not the miniMLE. I still have hopes for Camby, and if not him, there are lots of good wings available. Courtney Lee just hit the market as an UFA if twitter can be believed. Great role player, shoots 40% from 3, defends.

    153. Brian Cronin: When played as a post player, Randolph has been very strong overall (although yes, his scoring has always been mediocre – the Knicks wouldn’t be using him for post scoring, though). He’s put up high PERs for every team that has played him the in the post. The Knicks, in one of D’Antoni’s oddest decisions ever, played him on the perimeter (which is, of course, where Randolph wanted to play, but why would you ever listen to him on how he is best used?) His issue in Minnesota is that he happened to be backing up one of the best post players in the NBA.

      Do coaches dislike him? It sure seems that way. He’s likely a head case. But he is a six ten head case that has a career rebound rate of 15.9% (which would be second on the Knicks last year among guys who played more than 2 games) and a career block rate of 4.4% (which would be tops on the Knicks among guys who played more than 2 games) and is…wait for it…23 years old!!!

      He should be a rich man’s Jeffries but he’s JJ’s polar opposite in terms of basketball smarts- he seems to have no clue where he’s supposed to be on either side of the ball. In theory he should be a garbage man, just scoring in transition or off of the offensive glass but his career usage is 23.4! He just won’t stop shooting the ball. His usage here was over 21 when D’A clearly didn’t want him shooting anything besides a layup. His rebound rate was only 13.2 last year (worse than Amar’e) some of that might be due to playing with Love but a lot of his minutes came when Love was out. He’s in no way shape or form a good defender outside of blocking shots- he’s Tyrus Thomas 2.0. And yet for veteran’s minimum, why not? As you said He’s only 23 years old!!

    154. WRT to OJ Mayo, I do not think the Grizzlies renounced him yet, so I sign and trade would still be possible. Knicks could use the same Douglas/Jorts/Jordan/Gadzuric platter to make an offer that starts at $6.28 million (just under the maximum 20% non-Bird max raise off of Mayo’s salary of $5.62 million last year). If Memphis would not take Douglas, then the Knicks sign and trade becomes less valuable then a full MLE for Mayo.

    155. Amare Stoudemire $19,948,799
      Carmelo Anthony $19,450,000
      Tyson Chandler $13,604,188
      Iman Shumpert $1,680,360
      Renaldo Balkman $1,675,000
      Steve Novak $3,000,000
      Jeremy Lin $5,000,000
      Josh Harrellson $762,195
      Jerome Jordan $762,195
      Jared Jefferies $762,195
      Total = $66,644,932

      JR doesn’t take 20% and we trade TD and $3 mil to team who want 1 million out deal.

      Base on this math we can actually use full MLE. With could offer the full MLE to OJ Mayo or JR. BAE to maybe Kidd, Kmart, Camby or Felton? Rest would 400k minimum fillers.

      Change of scene and back in starting Lineup could do wonder for Mayo.

    156. If Knicks get a commitment from Kidd soon I assume that would mean they have given up on Nash no??

    157. Now Marc Stein is tweeting Mavs priority right now is re-signing Kidd plus signing either Nash or Lin.

      Looks like Lin’s market is being set in Texas.

    158. Courtney Lee is now a UFA. I always liked his game, and he’s a career 38% shooter from downtown.

    159. BigBlueAL:
      If Knicks get a commitment from Kidd soon I assume that would mean they have given up on Nash no??

      As a matter of roster construction, you are probably correct. But there is no salary cap reason why the Knicks could not use the mini-MLE on Kidd and a (cheap) sign and trade for Nash.

      On the OJ Mayo front, he would be a good choice if JR Smith does not come back. I fear Mayo and Smith in the same locker room might be too combustible.

    160. Haven’t posted in a while, but I know a few of you guys will be able to answer this question with ease… I know a sign and trade usually benefits all parties involved (Player singed+traded gets a bigger salary, team that trades him gets assets back that wouldn’t be gained otherwise if player just left in free agency)… But can a player in free agency object to being signed and traded if he’s being traded to a team he doesn’t want to go to?

      I can’t think of a situation where this would happen, because all the sign and trades I’ve seen were involving players and teams that wanted each other, but what if Landry Fields hadn’t accepted that offer from Toronto and the Knicks decided to sign and trade him to Phoenix… could he have stopped the trade b/c he didn’t want to go to the desert?

      Might be a stupid question, but I’m sick of coming through forums on Real GM and your help is greatly appreciated by my sore brain.

    161. If a player does not want to be signed and traded to a team, he can simply refuse the deal. Outside of an agreed-upon sign and trade, a player cannot be traded within three months of being traded or until after December 15, whichever is later.

    162. I would stay away from Randolph — he played about 100 games out here, (way more than with NY) with GS and was not very good. Couldn’t really get into the rotation on a big-starved team. Nash is IMHO a stupid chase. If the Knicks want to let Lin go (a really stupid idea) that’s one thing, but a Nash/Lin backcourt is death. Who would guard the super athletic or big 2’s? (Kobe, Wade, Harden, George) all those guys are 6’4″ or bigger. We gonna try and win games 140 to 130 as has already been posted? No way, won’t work. We need a defending, shooting big 2 or 2/3 like Brandon Rush (a RSA) that plays great D and shoots, and with GS taking Barnes, DWright is also available. Those are the type of player(s) we need, and I consider both to be significantly better than Fields (i.e. the same size with an actual jump shot).

    163. Good point I read on Twitter in regards to Lin. Pretty good sign for his future performance that 2 of the league’s most stat-oriented front offices in Houston and Dallas are showing pretty strong interest in Lin.

    164. Of course Dallas let him go, and Houston kept him for what, 20 minutes as the SIXTH string pg! We need a BBA lol on that!

      BigBlueAL:
      Good point I read on Twitter in regards to Lin.Pretty good sign for his future performance that 2 of the league’s most stat-oriented front offices in Houston and Dallas are showing pretty strong interest in Lin.

    165. Well Dallas was the team to give him a shot in Summer League after he went undrafted and from everything Ive read Houston let him go basically because of the salary cap implications and not wanting to cut players with guaranteed contracts.

      But yeah you make a good point lol

    166. Looks like Kidd’s a Knick. I guess that means Lin or bust, huh?

    167. GS’s behavior still has everyone ticked out here. . . . Lin was clearly outplaying Curry in garbage time, so they did the smart thing and waived him while making a no-way-in-hell-dumb-ass offer to the Clips for Deandre Jordan. These guys making the big bucks in the front offices, do they know shit? (GS took Todd Fuller with Kobe Bryant on the board). At least the Knicks seem to spend money and won’t pull a Sacto (sell their 2nd round pick for cash, cause they are “Maloof Broke”). All that being said, this shit is gettin’ scary and the Knicks could be left standing when the music stops. . . . . . .

    168. Only part Im worried about if Knicks do sign Kidd is Woodson starting him and basically splitting his and Lin’s minutes evenly.

    169. Kiddsanity is pretty slow, methodical shit, but at least he is a competent guard. He should see 10-15 minutes per night if Woody has any sense. Woody played Lin plenty when he was healthy, can’t see that changing, really. Kidd and Lin went to high school about 30 minutes apart out here in NorCal btw, just in different centuries. . . . . . .

    170. Not going to be unhappy if the Knicks get Kidd, but let’s be clear on what he is at this point. Kidd is basically a spot-up shooter and perimeter distributor. He no longer penetrates into the lane, and his one-on-one defense is poor. He is still has a large and strong body, so he is a good defensive rebounder.

      Kidd for 12-15 minutes per night, getting the ball to Stat, JR Smith and Novak in the right places can be valuable. If Lin gets hurt, I shudder at the thought of Kidd for 30 minutes per night.

    171. To me, signing Lin and Kidd was always the best realistic option for the Knicks’ overall roster construction next year, and beyond that. You keep your young star, hoping he develops into the new face of the franchise as a true homegrown talent once the big dollars come off the books in a few years, get him some valuable HoF-caliber mentorship, and still leave yourself room to add depth to what was already a playoff team without ever being fully healthy.

    172. Only part Im worried about if Knicks do sign Kidd is Woodson starting him and basically splitting his and Lin’s minutes evenly.

      Ay-yep.

    173. Robtachi:
      To me, signing Lin and Kidd was always the best realistic option for the Knicks’ overall roster construction next year, and beyond that. You keep your young star, hoping he develops into the new face of the franchise as a true homegrown talent once the big dollars come off the books in a few years, get him some valuable HoF-caliber mentorship, and still leave yourself room to add depth to what was already a playoff team without ever being fully healthy.

      Agreed, especially if they can also keep Novak and JR Smith. But if they have a realistic chance of getting Nash they have to explore it IMO.

    174. StatsTeacher:
      a Nash/Lin backcourt is death.Who would guard the super athletic or big 2?s? (Kobe, Wade, Harden, George) all those guys are 6’4? or bigger.

      Shump Shump!

      I don’t know that I’d put Shump in a Nash trade but otherwise, heck yeah we should try and reel him in. He’s not going to play more than 30 mpg – probably more like 25 – so you’re only going to see him on the court with Lin maybe 10-15 minutes a night, and that’s a great part-time look, IMO.

      Just depends how much money he’s willing to leave on the table. If he wasn’t willing to give up anything, this conversation wouldn’t still be going on and he’d have announced he’s going to Toronto, or Dallas, or sticking in Phoenix.

      So, brass tacks – did we figure out if the Nash offer can be within 150% of outgoing salaries, or has to be within 125%?

      Would Novak take the $$ to go to Phoenix? How much would Phoenix be willing to give him?

      Are the Knicks allowed to sign an outside player (e.g. Gerald Green) and include him in an S&T? I assume not, but you never know!

      If Novak is willing to play in Phoenix, then it all seems feasible… Say Phoenix is willing to pay him $4m… then Douglas for $2m… Harrelson or Jordan for $750k… 150% of that is $10 million a year.

      Of course if you have to be within 125%, then that’s only $8.4 million. But not out of the question. On the other hand, if Novak won’t take part, we might be stuck. Douglas + Harrelson + Jordan only equals $3.5 million which means $4.4 mil or $5.2 mil to Nash. Not enough. But wait! There’s also Dan Gadzuric… sign him for $3 mil, NY pays it Phoenix, and you could offer Nash @$9 million even without Novak. Right? Or offer a competitive salary, and S&T Novak.

    175. And New Orleans continues its inept decision making by matching the match deal on Gordon. This will be a real win if they get some picks out of the Suns in a S&T, but Eric Gordon? A max deal?

    176. The Honorable Cock Jowles:
      And New Orleans continues its inept decision making by matching the match deal on Gordon. This will be a real win if they get some picks out of the Suns in a S&T, but Eric Gordon? A max deal?

      you still don’t get how the NBA works. almost no one is actually worth a max deal, but the 25 or so teams with no real chance to win a title still have to field teams and attempt to win games.

    177. Two questions:

      1) how much can we offer Nash just with all the pieces previously leaked minus Landry? TD (2), JJ and Jorts (1.5 combined), Gadzuric (~1.5) = 5M. X125% = 6.25? Is that right?

      2) does anyone have any knowledge of B. Colangelo’s relationship with the Suns ownership? Might Sarver want to stick it to him? Or the opposite?

    178. The way Im seeing it is what options does Nash really have?? Right now it seems like its Toronto, Knicks and Dallas. I would think the Knicks are actually the better situation from those teams especially if its a sign & trade which means Nash will still get some decent money.

    179. This Landry things seems like a big fuck up from Colangelo or TOR ownership. Who wins with this deal?

    180. Two questions:

      1) how much can we offer Nash just with all the pieces previously leaked minus Landry? TD (2), JJ and Jorts (1.5 combined), Gadzuric (~1.5) = 5M. X125% = 6.25? Is that right?

      Yes.

      2) does anyone have any knowledge of B. Colangelo’s relationship with the Suns ownership? Might Sarver want to stick it to him? Or the opposite?

      I am pretty sure that there were no hard feelings when he left.

    181. This Landry things seems like a big fuck up from Colangelo or TOR ownership. Who wins with this deal?

      Fields.

      Plus, apparently Toronto was planning on making Fields an offer no matter what to be their starting small forward, so the overpay is sort of like a tax on the Nash contract. I mean, unless Dallas comes up with some major offer multi-year offer, the Fields signing just got them Nash, ya know?

    182. If I’m Nash, and you sabotaged my deal with another team, I would instantly take you off my list. He can find something better than TOR.

    183. They’re offering him the most money out of any team. I’m sure he’s deeply insulted. Again, Nash is interested in Toronto. He just likes New York more. He’ll be fine in Toronto. Now if some other team outbids Toronto, that’s a different story. But it does not seem like anyone will.

      And if the Knicks are willing to part with Shump and a re-signed Novak, that’d be at least sort of interesting.

      Otherwise, it is Toronto. And since it doesn’t seem like any other team will beat Toronto’s offer and the Knicks don’t seem interested in dealing Shump, the Fields signing pretty much sealed the deal for Nash to Toronto.

    184. I hear you. Bullshit move anyway.

      I totally get the frustration. I’m pissed about it, too. But I think it was a decent enough gamble for a team that has a hard time landing good free agents.

    185. Fields didn’t need to be playing to prove something, like he probably will now. Knee jerk move.

    186. What if we take a player off another team’s hands for a 2nd rounder in 2019 that Phoenix would like? Or if we could get Minnesota to send Beasley and Randolph to PHX in a three team sign and trade?

    187. Fields didn’t need to be playing to prove something, like he probably will now. Knee jerk move.

      He’ll be making $7 million a season! $7 million! It’s like the joke from the Simpsons. “How do you sleep at night?” “On top of a pile of money with many beautiful ladies.” I think he’ll be okay.

    188. I sort of refuse to believe we have no chance in hell at getting Nash. He, nor our front office, think that it’s impossible. That’s indicative by him giving us some time to put a deal together. So until he’s signed to the Purple and Red, we still have a chance. Even it’s a slim one.

    189. Adding Novak guarantees it gets done, IMO. Novak at $4 million, plus TD and Gadzuric gives us enough money (somewhere around $7 million) to offer Nash a starting deal of somewhere around $9 million.

    190. The Rockets arent willing to offer Dragic 10 mil per year so I seriously doubt they will offer Lin 4 yr/40 mil which is something Sam Amick of SI.com has said too.

      They offered Dragic 5 yr/40 mil. They cant offer Lin more than 4 yr so maybe they would offer him something like 4yr/32 mil?? Still would make Knicks have to pay him 11 mil in years 3 and 4 but thats alot more feasible to the Knicks front office I would imagine than 15 mil in those years.

    191. Adding Novak guarantees it gets done, IMO. Novak at $4 million, plus TD and Gadzuric gives us enough money (somewhere around $7 million) to offer Nash a starting deal of somewhere around $9 million.

      But, and it always come back to this, why does Phoenix do that? If they want Novak, they can just sign Novak themselves. He is an unrestricted free agent. And I assure you, they want no one else in the pu pu platter that the Knicks are offering. If the Knicks are serious about Nash, it has to be Shump. And if they’re not serious about Nash…well, fair enough, I guess.

    192. BigBlueAL:
      The Rockets arent willing to offer Dragic 10 mil per year so I seriously doubt they will offer Lin 4 yr/40 mil which is something Sam Amick of SI.com has said too.

      They offered Dragic 5 yr/40 mil.They cant offer Lin more than 4 yr so maybe they would offer him something like 4yr/32 mil??Still would make Knicks have to pay him 11 mil in years 3 and 4 but thats alot more feasible to the Knicks front office I would imagine than 15 mil in those years.

      Dragic doesn’t give you that instant Ticket sale & marketing revenue boost. From business side they will factor that into the offer. Everyone know RFA are overpaid offer sheets. If want player, you got make it ugly for the team to match.

    193. Question: Maybe someone has already brought this up but if Nash was to tell Toronto there’s no way he’s going to sign there wouldn’t Toronto pull their offer to Fields? With DeRozen and T Ross he’s third on they’re depth chart so they’d basically be playing Fields 20 million just to keep Nash from going to a division rival. I can’t see them tying up that much money just to screw the Knicks. Maybe Fields now thinks that’s his market value and would refuse a lower contract in a sign and trade but I can’t see a lot of suitors out there who are going to pay him more than he’d get from Phoenix in a S & T.

    194. With DeRozen and T Ross he’s third on they’re depth chart

      According to the Toronto papers, the Raptors were going to make an offer to Fields regardless of Nash. They see him as their starting 3 with Ross backing up Fields at the 3 and DeRozen at the 2. Fields fits in with their style of play quite well.

      That said, if Nash told them that he would absolutely not sign with them, I guess I could see the Raptors lowering the offer. But all they have to do is outbid what the Suns would be willing to pay to get Fields to sign with them over the Suns (via a sign and trade with the Knicks).

      Of course, the key is that Nash does not view New York as all that more appealing than the bigger financial offer from Toronto. I think if the money was close, he’d go to New York, but it is not close at this moment.

    195. Maybe Nash goes to LAL with Howard. So i think that we’re done. Maybe we can find someone from europe……………..

    196. Frank:

      2) does anyone have any knowledge of B. Colangelo’s relationship with the Suns ownership? Might Sarver want to stick it to him? Or the opposite?

      I don’t know about that, but maybe the Raptors are still pissed about the Antonio Davis trade and want to stick it to Grunwald…

    197. Brian Cronin: Fields fits in with their style of play quite well.

      agreed on this, assuming the style you mean is “being outscored by the opposition”. :)

      I cannot wait to see Fields exposed, thrilled I seemingly won’t have to watch him anymore in blue and orange.

      meanwhile, Grunwald has his work cut out for him, I am not optimistic about how this will all play out.

    198. Brian Cronin: But, and it always come back to this, why does Phoenix do that? If they want Novak, they can just sign Novak themselves. He is an unrestricted free agent. And I assure you, they want no one else in the pu pu platter that the Knicks are offering. If the Knicks are serious about Nash, it has to be Shump. And if they’re not serious about Nash…well, fair enough, I guess.

      Because otherwise Nash leaves anyway for Toronto, so they make it a trade to a) be nice to their pal; b) get a 1st-rounder, Josh Harrelson, Toney D, whatever… anything they get in a trade is bonus. Of course Toronto could make it an S&T too, but that’s negotiation.

    199. jon abbey: agreed on this, assuming the style you mean is “being outscored by the opposition”. :)

      I cannot wait to see Fields exposed, thrilled I seemingly won’t have to watch him anymore in blue and orange.

      meanwhile, Grunwald has his work cut out for him, I am not optimistic about how this will all play out.

      I have a completely opposite feeling. Fields is a kid who i believe will improve. I know you feel differently about Fields, Jon, I have a feeling you bailed on Fields too quickly.

    200. Frank O.: I have a completely opposite feeling. Fields is a kid who i believe will improve. I know you feel differently about Fields, Jon, I have a feeling you bailed on Fields too quickly.

      he bailed on me, actually.

    201. Because otherwise Nash leaves anyway for Toronto, so they make it a trade to a) be nice to their pal; b) get a 1st-rounder, Josh Harrelson, Toney D, whatever… anything they get in a trade is bonus. Of course Toronto could make it an S&T too, but that’s negotiation.

      My point is that taking Toney is specifically the opposite of a “bonus.” He’s what you take if you have to to get something else you actually want. Earlier, that could have been Fields. Now, it’s nothing. If you look at sign and trades where a player is going to the other team anyways, the return is little (but even there, the team sending over the free agent doesn’t take on filler players, they just get back draft picks). Sign and trades where you’re helping a player get to a team he couldn’t otherwise sign with, though, typically gets you something you actually want (like the Knicks and the Warriors with David Lee). The Suns are not just helping out Nash, they’re trading valuable cap space to take on guys that the Knicks won’t even miss. That usually does not happen and I don’t see it happening here, either. Now, again, if they could get Shump in such deal, it would be worth it for them.

      And, again, I’m not even saying you should include Shump if you’re the Knicks. I could see a very good case to be made for preferring to keep Shump going forward than getting Nash. I’m just saying that insisting on Shump is what the Suns should/likely will do.

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