Knicks Morning News (Thursday, May 17 2012)

  • [New York Post] Knicks prospect stars overseas, but may never make it to NY (Thu, 17 May 2012 02:52:18 -0500)

    Georgios Printezis, a 6-foot-9 forward for Olympiacos, is the toast of Europe this week. He hit the game-winning floater over Andrei Kirilenko with 0.7 seconds left to give Olympiacos its first Euroleague championship since 1997 with a 62-61 victory over CSKA Moscow.
    European reports have lionized Printezis’ floater as…

  • [New York Times] Thunder 77, Lakers 75: Thunder Take 2-0 Series Lead (Thu, 17 May 2012 07:48:03 GMT)

    Kevin Durant scored 22 points and made the decisive basket as the Oklahoma City Thunder held off the Los Angeles Lakers.

  • [New York Times] Celtics 107, 76ers 91: Celtics Dominate Sixers in Game 3 (Thu, 17 May 2012 05:20:04 GMT)

    Rajon Rondo, Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett combined for 74 points as Boston captured Game 3 of its series with Philadelphia.

  • [New York Times] Thunder Strike Late to Beat Lakers, Celtics Win (Thu, 17 May 2012 05:42:21 GMT)

    The Oklahoma City Thunder scored nine unanswered points in the final two minutes to edge the Los Angeles Lakers 77-75 on Wednesday and seize a 2-0 lead in their second-round playoff series.

  • [New York Times] Thunder Rally to Edge Lakers 77-75 in Game 2 (Thu, 17 May 2012 07:48:26 GMT)

    Down in desperation time, Oklahoma City Thunder coach Scott Brooks called on Kevin Durant to show that he’s more than just a three-time scoring champion. And that meant guarding one of the NBA’s all-time best.

  • [New York Times] Celtics Top 76ers 107-91 in Game 3 for 2-1 Lead (Thu, 17 May 2012 03:18:07 GMT)

    Kevin Garnett yapped his way down the court after big baskets and clearly enjoyed taking it to the 76ers.

  • [New York Times] Heat Regroup, Heading to Take on Confident Pacers (Thu, 17 May 2012 01:33:26 GMT)

    LeBron James and Dwyane Wade were not carrying “Help Wanted” signs around the Miami Heat practice floor on Wednesday. The mood was not grim, voices were not hushed and scowls were not prominent.

  • [New York Times] Celtics Spank 76ers for 2-1 Series Lead (Thu, 17 May 2012 02:03:15 GMT)

    The Boston Celtics trounced the Philadelphia 76ers 107-91 on Wednesday to spoil their return home and move ahead 2-1 in the second round East series of the NBA playoffs.

  • [New York Times] Off the Dribble: Are the Spurs Invincible? (Thu, 17 May 2012 00:14:38 GMT)

    The Spurs aren’t high wattage, but their excellence seems eternal.

  • [New York Times] Staples Center Gets No Rest With Lakers, Clippers and Kings in Playoffs (Thu, 17 May 2012 05:19:10 GMT)

    Staples Center in Los Angeles will be home to six postseason games in four days starting Thursday, as the Lakers, the Clippers and the Kings seek to advance.

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    Mike Kurylo

    Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

    117 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (Thursday, May 17 2012)”

    1. Wow – I’m not sure exactly how I feel about all the hate LBJ gets for his killer instinct, but this quote from him (from the NYT article linked above) after the team lost, he missed 2 FTs in the last minute, and looked alarmingly passive (again) doesn’t exactly make him look good:

      “At the end of the day, I was satisfied with my performance and trying to help us win a ball game,” James said. “That’s all that matters.”

      You mean, other than the team winning? Wow.

      Can you remotely imagine those words coming out of MJ or Kobe’s mouths?

    2. btw – even though we are sort of assuming that that the NBPA will lose this ruling re: early bird rights for waived players, Hahn seems to think it is not clear-cut. That sounds promising to me. On the other hand, in his chat, Larry Coon seemed to think the NBPA had little chance for success.

      So you’re saying there’s a chance…

    3. I think the problem with lebron is that he is not who the pundits/ fans want him to be. He is not an alpha male in the way he plays. He is more of a team player who just wants to win. And not necessarily care if he is the reason why. Most star players after the Jordan era are expected to want to take every final shot and be great in the click always and I don’t think lebron is that guy. He would be happy with 16 and 10 and 5 every night if they win, but his talent dictates he should do more so he is kinda in a conundrum.

      He is the only non point guard great player who plays like this so it’s easy to see the diff in him and say wade melo or Kobe who always want the last shot

      Frank:
      Wow – I’m not sure exactly how I feel about all the hate LBJ gets for his killer instinct, but this quote from him (from the NYT article linked above) after the team lost, he missed 2 FTs in the last minute, and looked alarmingly passive (again) doesn’t exactly make him look good:

      “At the end of the day, I was satisfied with my performance and trying to help us win a ball game,” James said. “That’s all that matters.”

      You mean, other than the team winning? Wow.

      Can you remotely imagine those words coming out of MJ or Kobe’s mouths?

      D

    4. Frank:
      Wow – I’m not sure exactly how I feel about all the hate LBJ gets for his killer instinct, but this quote from him (from the NYT article linked above) after the team lost, he missed 2 FTs in the last minute, and looked alarmingly passive (again) doesn’t exactly make him look good:

      “At the end of the day, I was satisfied with my performance and trying to help us win a ball game,” James said. “That’s all that matters.”

      You mean, other than the team winning? Wow.

      Can you remotely imagine those words coming out of MJ or Kobe’s mouths?

      That is a disturbing quote. That last possession in game 2, he didn’t even make an attempt to beat his man, just gave the ball to Wade and let him go one on one. I really am starting to wonder about this guy, he may just not be mentally tough enough to be a champion.

    5. As Larry Coon stated in his chat, the Apron would turn into a hard cap if the Knicks use their full MLE (anything more than the mini-MLE) or the BAE. So even if the Knicks were obtained early Bird rights for Lin and Novak, they would not be able to use the MLE and cross $74 MM. Likely means that the Knicks would need to trade Douglas for a draft pick (either protected or draft someone in Europe who would not sign this year) and bow out on resigning Fields in order to have the full MLE.

    6. Has anyone given a thought to the Apron in the third year, if some team offers Lin a heavily back-loaded 4-year deal? That could make it impossible for the Knicks to match the offer if the Knicks were to exceed the Apron in the third year.
      Cheers

    7. Cousyfan:
      Has anyone given a thought to the Apron in the third year, if some team offers Lin a heavily back-loaded 4-year deal? That could make it impossible for the Knicks to match the offer if the Knicks were to exceed the Apron in the third year.
      Cheers

      According to Larry Coon, if there is a backloaded offer to a player under the Gilbert Arenas rule, the salary for the team currently holding his rights is considered on a cash basis — meaning that only the first year salary ($5 MM) needs to fit. The fact that the contract would take the Knicks well over the Apron in subsequent years is not a factor in whether the offer can be made. Of course, once the Knicks got to year 3, they would be well over the Apron and could not utilize the MLE or BAE to make NEW offers.

    8. I also read (forgot where, sorry too lazy to track the quote) that Lebron said that a game isn’t lost on two free throws. While that idea does counterbalance the (admittedly) over-emphasis on ‘clutch’ plays that gets so much attention, it’s a total cop out for any player, especially a superstar MVP, to say that. Better if he had just said ‘I missed those two shots and that’s on me.’ Which reminds me of when Lin had a bad game, he’d just say it was on him. That was refreshing to hear.

    9. I feel like the obsession with what these guys say is a little silly. Lebron isn’t good at managing the media. We’ve known that for a long time, at least since the decision. He doesn’t have a good idea of what the thing you’re supposed to say or do at any given time is. Personally I enjoy that, because I think it gives us a more honest window into what they’re thinking. Lots of other guys seem to know exactly what they’re supposed to say at any given moment (the pinnacle of this is Jeter in my mind) and so you never hear anything interesting or fundamentally true from them.

      Lebron on the other hand seems to say what comes to his head even if it gets him in trouble. And the funny thing is that the things he is saying are TRUE. He said it was taxing defending the 4 for long stretches. How could it not be? Has any player in the history of the game been asked to play 42+ minutes a game defending power forwards and bringing the ball up on offense for long stretches? He said he was satisfied with his performance? Shouldn’t he be pretty satisfied? He was by far the best player on the court and none of his teammates played well. And he said the game isn’t won or lost on one play. Isn’t that a fundamental truth of sports?

      I’m surprised to hear Lin’s attitude called refreshing. To me Lebron’s attitude is the one that’s refreshing. Lin spouts the same endless platitudes as every other player. If I had a nickel for every time I’ve heard a player say “I didn’t get the job done tonight and that’s on me” I’d be a rich man.

    10. Sidestep – I think Lebron wishes he had made those free throws. But I think he knows that in a game where he put up 28-9-5 with 6 steals it wasn’t the missed free throws that made the difference.

      I definitely have Lebron’s back on this. He understands better than most that everything you do throughout a game matters more or less equally, despite how pundits spin it afterward. If he has 3 steals instead of 6 no one would have noticed those missed free throws. Ditto if he he hits three more shots earlier.

      Check out the thread last night. Ruru was declaring the end of advanced stats as the Lakers rolled to victory over the Thunder, despite Kobe bricking away, I guess because the value of the pressure Kobe was putting on the Thunder defense was so clear.

      And then the Lakers lost a seven point lead in the last two minutes as the Lakers failed to score on 6 consecutive possessions trying to play through the Mamba, who went 0-5 to “close” the game.

      sidestep:
      I also read (forgot where, sorry too lazy to track the quote) that Lebron said that a game isn’t lost on two free throws. While that idea does counterbalance the (admittedly) over-emphasis on ‘clutch’ plays that gets so much attention, it’s a total cop out for any player, especially a superstar MVP, to say that. Better if he had just said ‘I missed those two shots and that’s on me.’ Which reminds me of when Lin had a bad game, he’d just say it was on him. That was refreshing to hear.

    11. @9 and @10 – how does any competitor say “I’m satisfied with my performance” after losing a pivotal playoff game and AGAIN coming up small in the last minute or two of the game? How does the guy who’s is supposed to be (and is) the best player in the world not take it a little harder than that? By saying “I’m satisfied”, he’s also implying that the loss is not on him, but on his teammates. That’s not leadership. As the best player on the team and in the league, he needs to OWN the final outcome of a game like that. I don’t mean he needs to play hero-ball — I just mean he can’t say “I did fine”, which silently implies “other guys on my team did not do fine”.

      Better yet Owen – what if Melo had said that? Be honest – you would be killing him, just like so many people here killed him for saying that it was fun playing in some game that they lost in OT (was it the Celts game when Pierce hit that crazy shot? Can’t remember) and that he should take it harder when they lose.

    12. @11 Exactly, and you are so right about Melo and if he had said those things, there would be a media (and K-Blogger) firestorm.

      It’s not just what he says, BTW, it’s the fact that he gives the ball up at the end of games. Not that I want him forcing up contested jumpers a la Kobe, but even if he ended up driving and drawing a double and dishing to an open shooter that would be OK. But he really doesn’t seem to want the ball at the end of a game, and for the greatest player on the planet to act that way is disturbing to say the least.

    13. That’s crazy. The things that happen at the end of the game are more important than things earlier in the game. Teams don’t play as hard for the whole game. Teams coast. In basketball, teams will get leads and then play a little less hard and let the other team back in. Happens all game, every game. It’s not physically, emotionally, or mentally possible to be playing at the highest level all game long. The ends of games are when championships are won.

      If MJ had Lebron’s “philosophical” mindset to ends of games, he doesn’t take and make the championship-winning shot over Bryon Russell. In some alternate universe, where his attitude matches Lebron, he misses two free throws.

      The idea that Lebron’s approach is just as winning a brand of basketball is pure lunacy. When MJ made all the winning plays down the stretch of those games, like stealing the ball from Hall of Famer Karl Malone, you were not surprised. This was the most important part of the game and Jordan was going to be in the midst of every play making something positive happening. You can’t watch Lebron and say the same.

    14. Let’s actually try this as a thought experiment (this is not a real news story, just some things cobbled together from various sources with names changed):

      NEW YORK (AP): Here they came again, Carmelo Anthony and Amare Stoudemire steamrolling New York back into the game, wiping out an 11-point Indiana lead and bringing the Pacers to the brink of a 2-0 deficit.

      Only this time, it was the Knicks that wilted.

      Leandro Barbosa scored the go-ahead bucket and David West rose above Carmelo Anthony in the lane for another big score as the Pacers took a 76-75 lead and then shut out the Knicks in the final 2:40 for a thrilling 78-75 victory in Game 2 of the Eastern Conference semifinal series Tuesday. Anthony scored 41 points with nine rebounds and five assists for the Knicks, but missed two free throws and had a shot blocked in the final two minutes. It was an Anthony rebound of a Stoudemire miss with 55 seconds left that led to his two missed free throws with the Knicks trailing 76-75. Those misses — unacceptable at that stage, even given fatigue — came after this play, the first time Wednesday night that chatter bubbled up that Anthony did not want the ball under pressure.

      Woodson drew up New York’s play for point guard Jeremy Lin to come off a double screen on the left wing and launch a potential game-tying three-pointer. Carmelo served as one of those screeners, and as Indiana’s defense shifted toward Lin, he had a chance to pop free behind the three-point line in the left corner for a possible pass from Lin. He never did, and New York never had another chance to close the gap.

      When asked about the final outcome, Carmelo Anthony said while smiling: ““At the end of the day, I was satisfied with my performance and trying to help us win a ball game,” Anthony said. “That’s all that matters.””

      Does that make this story feel any different? All I did was change Miami to New York, and changed Heat names to Knick names.

    15. d-mar:
      @11 Exactly, and you are so right about Melo and if he had said those things, there would be a media (and K-Blogger) firestorm.

      It’s not just what he says, BTW, it’s the fact that he gives the ball up at the end of games. Not that I want him forcing up contested jumpers a la Kobe, but even if he ended up driving and drawing a double and dishing to an open shooter that would be OK. But he really doesn’t seem to want the ball at the end of a game, and for the greatest player on the planet to act that way is disturbing to say the least.

      It really doesn’t matter what Melo says he’s going to get killed by folks like Owen. Lebron simply isn’t wired like the other alpha-males in the league, historically. You’d never see Michael flailing and flopping like Lebron does — nor Kobe. To me that’s a big clue. It really is emasculation when you’re that big. The guy lacks balls when it matters. End of story. Incredible player, probably a better overall teammate than a lot of the prior alpha dogs, but doesn’t have the gravitas when it’s nut-cutting time.

    16. Anthony DID actually miss two free throws at the end of our playoff win (almost blowing the game.)

      IDK it’s one game. Their 2nd loss out of 7 in the playoffs. Do you want them to be perfect? And they were missing a key player.

      Plus, it’s not like D. Wade taking the last shot is like passing to Jeffries. Wade’s a top 10 player.

      I’m pretty sure that’s the last win Indy will get.

    17. Owen:

      Check out the thread last night. Ruru was declaring the end of advanced stats as the Lakers rolled to victory over the Thunder, despite Kobe bricking away, I guess because the value of the pressure Kobe was putting on the Thunder defense was so clear.

      .

      Actually what I said was that Durant was playing way too passively and hurting his team in the half-court. His coach said the exact same thing a couple hours later (Durant was not shooting much in the half-court, but Ibaka and friends were). Westbrook often ends up taking a lot of shots Durant should take in the half-court.

      My point was that Kobe was taking those end of shot-clock shots that Durant was passing up — he wasn’t getting transition or semi-transition shots because that’s not what the Lakers were doing. In the context of the two team’s game-plans I thought Kobe was having a much better game than his numbers indicated, and Durant was having a much worse game than his numbers indicated — despite those 5 opportunity transition shots he made early.

      Before those final moments played out I thought the two had played comparably, but that the advanced stats would indicate that Kobe was a sub-replacement level player while Durant would look like Magic 2.0.

    18. ess-dog:
      Anthony DID actually miss two free throws at the end of our playoff win (almost blowing the game.)

      Plus, it’s not like D. Wade taking the last shot is like passing to Jeffries.

      I’m assuming that’s a shot at Melo.

    19. Frank:
      @9 and @10 – how does any competitor say “I’m satisfied with my performance” after losing a pivotal playoff game and AGAIN coming up small in the last minute or two of the game?How does the guy who’s is supposed to be (and is) the best player in the world not take it a little harder than that?By saying “I’m satisfied”, he’s also implying that the loss is not on him, but on his teammates.That’s not leadership.As the best player on the team and in the league, he needs to OWN the final outcome of a game like that. I don’t mean he needs to play hero-ball — I just mean he can’t say “I did fine”, which silently implies “other guys on my team did not do fine”.

      I think you’re missing the context of the quote. From what I’ve seen, it wasn’t immediately after the game, it was the next day, and he wasn’t being asked about losing the game, he was asked about whether it bothered him that people were saying he choked. That was the context in which he said he was satisfied. As in he wasn’t beating himself up about it because he did his best and there’s no point in worrying about it now. He wasn’t blaming his teammates at all.

      Regardless this is my whole point about how dumb it is to read too much into these quotes. You’re hearing a one sentence soundbite that a guy said while he was changing his clothes that a reporter has specifically plucked from a long series of answers and presented without context specifically because it can be read in a way that will generate page views. And you’re using that to judge someone’s character. There are plenty of reasons to doubt whether Lebron lacks a killer instinct, but to judge someone off this stuff is just dumb. And yes I’d say the exact same thing for Melo.

    20. ruruland: I’m assuming that’s a shot at Melo.

      No.

      People miss free throws in clutch situations – even “stars”. And I’m more saying that Lebron should be killed for passing to an amazing player at the end of the game.

      Melo made the right pass last year. It’s more a knock on Jeffrightened. A person really should make wide open layups under the basket.

    21. When I saw LBJ’s pass to Battier live, I could not imagine what he was doing. However, S. Pruti broke down the play at grantland and showed that LBJ made the pass because Wade was trying to post up, but Battier’s man had sagged off and was fronting the post. LBJ and Battier made the pass back-and-forth to get Wade a clean post-up opportunity. In retrospect, not a bad basketball play.

      Having said all of that, it is clear that LBJ was not particularly looking to take over the last minute of the game. If the Heat win the championship this year, it will be water under the bridge. If they lose, it will become part of the litany of evidence in support of “LBJ shrinks from the big moment.”

      If the Heat get eliminated by the Pacers, I think a big shake-up in Miami is possible. Wade for Chandler/Shumpert is not totally implausible.

    22. ephus:
      When I saw LBJ’s pass to Battier live, I could not imagine what he was doing.However, S. Pruti broke down the play at grantland and showed that LBJ made the pass because Wade was trying to post up, but Battier’s man had sagged off and was fronting the post.LBJ and Battier made the pass back-and-forth to get Wade a clean post-up opportunity.In retrospect, not a bad basketball play.

      Having said all of that, it is clear that LBJ was not particularly looking to take over the last minute of the game.If the Heat win the championship this year, it will be water under the bridge.If they lose, it will become part of the litany of evidence in support of “LBJ shrinks from the big moment.”

      If the Heat get eliminated by the Pacers, I think a big shake-up in Miami is possible.Wade for Chandler/Shumpert is not totally implausible.

      No way they are trading Wade. They will trade Bosh though. I think there might be a 10-15% chance the Heat can win a championship without Bosh — he is so underrated in what they do in the half-court, especially when you consider the drop-off to Anthony and Turiaf.

      I don’t think the odds are better than 50 that the Heat make it out of any of their upcoming series, including this one.

    23. Frank:

      what if Melo had said that?Be honest – you would be killing him, just like so many people here killed him for saying that it was fun playing in some game that they lost in OT (was it the Celts game when Pierce hit that crazy shot? Can’t remember) and that he should take it harder when they lose.

      If Anthony had put up 28-9-5-6 against the Celtics the Knicks would have won that game and no one would have cared whether he was smiling or not.

      Owen’s point is a good one: that if LeBron had played a tiny bit worse or a tiny bit better, no one would be saying that he was a choker.

    24. “This game is a perfect example of why the advanced metrics can be so worthless. Kobe is taking a bunch of necessary shots because the ball entry to the bigs is very difficult.”

      Ruruland – It turned out to be the perfect example of why hero ball is pretty dumb. Of how turning the final moments of a game into an exercise in machismo is often incredibly counterproductive.

      What are your thoughts on why Kobe’s Lakers have dramatically underperformed in the clutch for as long as they have tracked it? Unpack the riddle of how the best offensive team in the NBA has been just the 10th best in the clutch.

      What does it say about the punditocracy that Kobe’s legendary late game abilities turned out to be a total myth?

      Frank – Lebron isn’t saying he is satisfied with losing. What he is saying, implicitly, is that process and result are two different things. I think he knows that most nights if he puts up 28-9-5-6-2to his team is going to be ok. And there really is no point in killing himself over it. He did his best.

      And for the record, there is zero chance I would be killing Melo if he had a game like that in a loss. If we lost four games with Melo posting Game Scores over 25 you wouldn’t hear a thing from me.

      Formido – The end of the game is the most important time of the game, except when it isn’t. The Sixers killed the Celtics in the fourth quarter last night and still lost by 16.

    25. Why are transition shots not as important to you? Isn’t the ability to get in transition important because it leads to efficient scoring? You act like transition scoring are cheap points or don’t mean as much to a team. (Lebron & Durant vs. Melo) or (Denver vs. Knicks)
      Also, even if Kobe was taking multiple contested shots at the end of the clock, why should he be applauded for missing them? Can’t anyone take shots at the end of the clock if they don’t go in? Would it have been a better game for Durant if he took and missed shots at the end of the clock instead of Westbrook missing them? It’s not like Kobe was drawing a tremendous amount of pressure for the defense, he was just taking turnaround fade-aways (a few airballs).

      ruruland: In the context of the two team’s game-plans I thought Kobe was having a much better game than his numbers indicated, and Durant was having a much worse game than his numbers indicated — despite those 5 opportunity transition shots he made early.

    26. Owen:
      “This game is a perfect example of why the advanced metrics can be so worthless. Kobe is taking a bunch of necessary shots because the ball entry to the bigs is very difficult.”

      Ruruland – It turned out to be the perfect example of why hero ball is pretty dumb. Of how turning the final moments of a game into an exercise in machismo is often incredibly counterproductive.

      What are your thoughts on why Kobe’s Lakers have dramatically underperformed in the clutch for as long as they have tracked it? Unpack the riddle of how the best offensive team in the NBA has been just the 10th best in the clutch.

      What does it say about the punditocracy that Kobe’s legendary late game abilities turned out to be a total myth?

      That wasn’t my point at all.

      But I think there is some truth to it to be sure. But also understand that getting interior/post shots at the end of the game is often very difficult because officials allow for much more contact.

      In the context of who Kobe has been surrounded by, more often than not he’s the most capable guy of taking a shot in those situations… But I do think his megalomania hurts his teams for sure — I said it would be the only way they’d lose games to Denver.

    27. ruruland: No way they are trading Wade. They will trade Bosh though. I think there might be a 10-15% chance the Heat can win a championship without Bosh — he is so underrated in what they do in the half-court, especially when you consider the drop-off to Anthony and Turiaf.

      I don’t think the odds are better than 50 that the Heat make it out of any of their upcoming series, including this one.

      All depends on when they get Bosh back. I think even 10% chance without him is pretty high. I think they can beat Indy without him, and then they would beat Philly without him, Celtics would be 50-50, but I don’t think they can beat San Antonio or the Thunder without him. Those teams are too good.

      As for whether they’ll shake things up, I think trading Wade would be the smart move. Bosh and Lebron are more naturally synergistic than Wade and Lebron, they’d get an even better haul for Wade, and I think their biggest long term concern is Wade’s health, especially given that he already looks like he has lost a step from his prime. However I think that you’re right that they won’t trade Wade, so it’s interesting to think about what they could get for Bosh.

      Bosh for Scola, Lowry and Parsons or a pick maybe? Upgrades them at the PG, Scola can do a lot of the same stuff offensively that Bosh can, and they clear a little salary? Or they could try to dump Bosh for one year stopgaps and try to lure Paul or Dwight next offseason. Or maybe even Dwight for Bosh now?

    28. Will the Thrill:

      Also, even if Kobe was taking multiple contested shots at the end of the clock, why should he be applauded for missing them? Can’t anyone take shots at the end of the clock if they don’t go in? Would it have been a better game for Durant if he took and missed shots at the end of the clock instead of Westbrook missing them? It’s not like Kobe was drawing a tremendous amount of pressure for the defense, he was just taking turnaround fade-aways (a few airballs).

      Transition offense is efficient. And there’s nothing wrong with it in the sense that it is what it is and some players are better at getting transition buckets.

      My point is that the deeper you get into the playoffs, the less reliable it becomes. Teams become much more disciplined about getting back. I would take a disciplined half-court team over a frenetic transition and semi-transition team every single time…. You can get away with it in the regular season and sometimes early in the playoffs — but not against the good teams.

      we saw last night how poor OKC’s offense was, and LAL was undisciplined enough to give them way more transition opportunities than they should have.

      I guarantee you that Durant and OKC’s scoring efficiency will plummet as the playoffs progress and they face more disciplined defensive teams — I actually think the Lakers will do a better job moving forward, too.

      Kobe doesn’t get lauded for taking the late shot-clock shots. But he shouldn’t get punished for them, either — not statistically.

      There is no way that going into the last 4 minutes Durant had 5 times the impact Kobe had– the advanced metrics would have told us that Durant was playing an incredible game ( he wasn’t) and that Kobe was the worst player on the floor (he wasn’t either)

    29. thenamestsam: All depends on when they get Bosh back. I think even 10% chance without him is pretty high. I think they can beat Indy without him, and then they would beat Philly without him, Celtics would be 50-50, but I don’t think they can beat San Antonio or the Thunder without him. Those teams are too good.

      As for whether they’ll shake things up, I think trading Wade would be the smart move. Bosh and Lebron are more naturally synergistic than Wade and Lebron, they’d get an even better haul for Wade, and I think their biggest long term concern is Wade’s health, especially given that he already looks like he has lost a step from his prime. However I think that you’re right that they won’t trade Wade, so it’s interesting to think about what they could get for Bosh.

      Bosh for Scola, Lowry and Parsons or a pick maybe? Upgrades them at the PG, Scola can do a lot of the same stuff offensively that Bosh can, and they clear a little salary? Or they could try to dump Bosh for one year stopgaps and try to lure Paul or Dwight next offseason. Or maybe even Dwight for Bosh now?

      I don’t know. Your argument makes sense but it won’t happen. if they focused on maximizing Bosh in the half-court they’d be a much better half-court team. And he’s not nearly as bad of a defender as he was in Toronto.

      But he’s been branded the scapegoat from day one… Unless they get Howard, I’m not sure you could get a better third star around those two guys. And they aren’t getting Howard (or Noah, Chandler etc)

    30. ruruland: I don’t know. Your argument makes sense but it won’t happen. if they focused on maximizing Bosh in the half-court they’d be a much better half-court team. And he’s not nearly as bad of a defender as he was in Toronto.

      But he’s been branded the scapegoat from day one… Unless they get Howard, I’m not sure you could get a better third star around those two guys. And they aren’t getting Howard (or Noah, Chandler etc)

      I agree with everything you said. They would be really hard pressed to find a third star who gels better with Lebron and Wade. He needs to be a big man, but he needs to be a capable jump shooter so he doesn’t clog the lane much, and they really need him to be both mobile on D. Love would be a better fit offensively but would hurt them a lot defensively. The one guy who I think would be a real upgrade is Marc Gasol, but I don’t think they could get him. KG would be a great fit, but I can’t see him going there even if they had the salary space.

      However, I do think there’s something to be said for trading Bosh for a few guys in an effort to get deeper. What about this trade: Bosh for Faried, Gallinari, and a first round pick or 2? Faried is less of a liability defensively in the swarming style they play and provides some much needed rebounding on both ends, and Danilo is best suited as a weak-side shooter/slasher. He comes off the bench, but crunch time they play James, Wade, Danilo, Faried and Haslem, which makes decent sense on offense(especially if Haslem ever rediscovers his shot) and suits their swarming style on D. They’d be even more undersized than they are now though.

    31. Frank:
      Wow – I’m not sure exactly how I feel about all the hate LBJ gets for his killer instinct, but this quote from him (from the NYT article linked above) after the team lost, he missed 2 FTs in the last minute, and looked alarmingly passive (again) doesn’t exactly make him look good:

      “At the end of the day, I was satisfied with my performance and trying to help us win a ball game,” James said. “That’s all that matters.”

      You mean, other than the team winning? Wow.

      Can you remotely imagine those words coming out of MJ or Kobe’s mouths?

      Reminds of when, after the brutal celtics loss, melo said he had fun. As a fan who was mad for a whole day about that game, I don’t want to hear that, especially against those evil celtics.

    32. thenamestsam:

      However, I do think there’s something to be said for trading Bosh for a few guys in an effort to get deeper. What about this trade: Bosh for Faried, Gallinari, and a first round pick or 2? Faried is less of a liability defensively in the swarming style they play and provides some much needed rebounding on both ends, and Danilo is best suited as a weak-side shooter/slasher. He comes off the bench, but crunch time they play James, Wade, Danilo, Faried and Haslem, which makes decent sense on offense(especially if Haslem ever rediscovers his shot) and suits their swarming style on D. They’d be even more undersized than they are now though.

      See. Faried and Haslem are so undersized you would be really bad at the rim. Bosh isn’t a shot-blocker but he’s long and contests a lot of shots — he moves his feet decently too.

      Faried is a pretty poor overall defender, but he has a chance to be one of the all-time great possession players…. and he has room to get better defensively.

      I don’t think that move makes them better. Playoffs are won with 9 man rotations, and I’m not a big fan of Gallinari’s game. As a 3pt shooter he’s pretty average at best at this point (despite mostly gret looks), and it seems as though officials are beginning to take notice of his flop game (which had such an impact on his efficiency)

      I know Denver would be all over that move — that would make them a truly viable threat in the West.

    33. “As a 3pt shooter he’s pretty average at best at this point (despite mostly gret looks), ”

      Gallo had a miserable end to the season but still clocked in with a 114 offensive rating and posted a 56.3% ts% for the season.

      I will definitely take the over on him shooting 32.8% from three next year. The guy is a great shooter.

    34. Owen:
      “As a 3pt shooter he’s pretty average at best at this point (despite mostly gret looks), ”

      Gallo had a miserable end to the season but still clocked in with a 114 offensive rating and posted a 56.3% ts% for the season.

      I will definitely take the over on him shooting 32.8% from three next year. The guy is a great shooter.

      His fta per 36 were down big this year. And after the first 3 games in the Nuggets series officials weren’t buying his flops. Unless he starts developing more of an offensive game, and thus the officials respect, I can’t see him getting those calls consistently like he used to.

      He’s been a 35,35 and 33% 3pt shooter the last three years — very very average.

      It’s just that he doesn’t take many other shots (those run-outs help though)

      He’s a get-out-of-the-way opportunity scorer who’s merely average compared to other opportunity scorers. He’s a decent passer and defender — just an average role player, really.

    35. To me (and I have said this repeatedly) the redundancy is in Lebron and Wade so it would be one of them that had to go. Trading Bosh for another different kind of big creates similar problems. You need a top 5 defensive big man because the Heat’s existing interior D and rebounding are a problem who can also shoot from the outside because lane clogging for Lebron and Wade is a problem. KG is really the only guy that fits that bill but does he have the gas in the tank? Lebron and Wade don’t complement each other because neither is a great (or even average) shooter from beyond 15 feet. Maybe Bosh to Phoenix for Gortat and Dudley?

      Who here would want to trade Tyson and Shumpert for a declining Wade? Not me. We’d be the worst defense in the league.

    36. Owen:
      Here is an excellent piece on Hero Ball, closers, the misunderstanding of the importance of clutch play….

      He makes the point better than I….

      http://www.backpicks.com/2012/05/15/catch-23-the-hero-fallacy-and-why-we-overvalue-closers/

      Carmelo looks really good on that, btw. Might want to get a different link up.

      There is a negligible difference in a very limited sample between “hero-ball” teams and non-hero ball teams.

      I don’t know, did it look to you Owen that the Nuggets struggled mightily down the stretch of tight playoff games this year?

    37. cgreene:
      To me (and I have said this repeatedly) the redundancy is in Lebron and Wade so it would be one of them that had to go.Trading Bosh for another different kind of big creates similar problems.You need a top 5 defensive big man because the Heat’s existing interior D and rebounding are a problem who can also shoot from the outside because lane clogging for Lebron and Wade is a problem.KG is really the only guy that fits that bill but does he have the gas in the tank?Lebron and Wade don’t complement each other because neither is a great (or even average) shooter from beyond 15 feet.Maybe Bosh to Phoenix for Gortat and Dudley?

      Who here would want to trade Tyson and Shumpert for a declining Wade?Not me.We’d be the worst defense in the league.

      +1. I don’t want a declining Wade for a prime Tyson and an upstart Shumpert. And could you imaging a Wade and Melo pairing with STAT in the middle? We would be so bad defensively and in ball movement. Not to mention often injured.

    38. How about Lebron for Melo, Shumpert and Lin? You think the Heat would go for that?

    39. Owen:
      Here is an excellent piece on Hero Ball, closers, the misunderstanding of the importance of clutch play….

      He makes the point better than I….

      http://www.backpicks.com/2012/05/15/catch-23-the-hero-fallacy-and-why-we-overvalue-closers/

      Owen, that’s an impressive website. What do you think of ElGee’s Expected Value (EV) metric? Do you think it comes any closer to a reliable all-in-one measure of player value?

      One thing, though: ElGee argues that because the human brain can’t tell the difference between hundreds of possessions, everyone blindly accepts “hero ball.”

      In reality, this is nothing new. Baseball fans have known for a long time that to the naked eye, a .280 hitter looks the same as a .300 hitter. Keeping statistics is the solution to this. It’s very simple.

      I think ElGee is exaggerating the conventional wisdom in order to buttress his point. I don’t think he needs to say this to support the good job he did of researching and analyzing the data.

    40. Jafa:
      How about Lebron for Melo, Shumpert and Lin?You think the Heat would go for that?

      Can’t see it for them. For one I don’t think they’d ever trade Lebron. When you have the best player in the league, you’re basically always better trying to make things work with that guy than moving him. I think they’d be more likely to trade Wade than Lebron and even that is incredibly unlikely.

      Even if they were to trade Lebron I can’t see that package interesting them. If they trade one of the big 3 I think they’d be looking for lower usage guys who can contribute more outside of their scoring. Lin + Melo instead of Lebron only exacerbates their problems with having guys who are primarily scorers. I can’t see it for them.

    41. Doug: Owen, that’s an impressive website. What do you think of ElGee’s Expected Value (EV) metric? Do you think it comes any closer to a reliable all-in-one measure of player value?

      One thing, though: ElGee argues that because the human brain can’t tell the difference between hundreds of possessions, everyone blindly accepts “hero ball.”

      In reality, this is nothing new. Baseball fans have known for a long time that to the naked eye, a .280 hitter looks the same as a .300 hitter. Keeping statistics is the solution to this. It’s very simple.

      I think ElGee is exaggerating the conventional wisdom in order to buttress his point. I don’t think he needs to say this to support the good job he did of researching and analyzing the data.

      I just read the article and the sample size is one year it looks like?

    42. Jafa: +1.I don’t want a declining Wade for a prime Tyson and an upstart Shumpert.And could you imaging a Wade and Melo pairing with STAT in the middle?We would be so bad defensively and in ball movement.Not to mention often injured.

      Yeah – I agree, think Wade is starting the slow decline stage of his career. I mentioned it even in our series against them, that he didn’t look like he could beat people off the dribble anymore and was being forced into a lot of prayer-type fade-away turnarounds. He has compensated by developing a good low-post game, but he’s really not that big a guy – he had a lot of problems even posting Landry Fields. As he loses a half-step, he’ll see more coverage by swingman types rather than PG/SG types, and his post game will be more difficult. I generally like Wade’s game, but no way do I give up the DPOY + a very promising Shumpert on a rookie contract for him.

    43. If Wade comes available (which only becomes a possibility if the Heat flame out against the Pacers and decide that they have to split LBJ/Wade), I think Chandler/Shumpert actually works for both teams. Yes, the Knicks would become much weaker defensively, but they would also gain a lot offensively.

    44. @ruru (from your comment about off/on ball productivity in the last thread)

      What I meant by off ball was more I guess playing from the weak side. Technically, when Rip was running through all those screens for Detroit, he was playing off the ball, but like AI, he was still the a top option for a lot of Detroit’s sets.

      I think Miami is a prime example of how much it sucks to have guys who can’t spread the floor. Wade & LBJ on pure talent have as much as any 3 guys on any other team. Their duplicative skills are the problem. MIA would have been better off with Wade or LBJ going down just because they need Bosh’s front line range so badly.

      In regard to shot creators, if you look at the floor spacing (35% plus 3pt shooters) these teams have you also see the same trend:

      San Antonio: Green, Leonard, Ginobili, Jackson, Neal and Bonner

      OKC: Durant and Sepholosha/Harden with Cook off the bench.

      Boston: Allen, Pierce, Bradley

      Philly: Williams, Holiday, Iguodala, Meeks

      Indy: Granger, George, Collison, Hill

      LAL: Ramon Sessions??

      LAC: Butler, Foye, Mo Williams, Young

      MIA: James, Chalmers, Miller, Battier

      2013 NYK: minimum salary player X?

      IMO the Clippers, Indy, and Philly are examples of teams that really do need more guys who can score on their own. If Griffin could develop a reliable post game, it would make the team a ton better.

      The reason LAL isn’t barnstorming its way to the finals despite having the most dominant pair of bigs in the league and a great wing player, is because no one can shoot! They nearly lost to DEN, against whom they had seemingly every matchup advantage… NY has the same conundrum.

      This is a simplification, but I feel like you need to have 2 above average perimeter threats and 2 guys who can score for themselves on the floor for 48 mins. That’s what makes the solid shooters who can still create for themselves so valuable, even if they’re not near as dominant 1 on 1 as Kobe.

    45. I guess Im the only person excited about Georgios Printezis. Bring him in!! lol

    46. BigBlueAL:
      I guess Im the only person excited about Georgios Printezis.Bring him in!!lol

      If the Knicks do not have the salary cap room to bring him in (and it appears they do not), he could be a useful trade cog. Trade Douglas and Printezis to a team with salary cap space in return for a second round pick (and then take someone who is going to stay in Europe) or a top-55 protected fake pick.

    47. Hey Max, I agree with you 100 percent. Tried to make that same point myself. The Heat have some very good shooters, though.

    48. Max, do you consider Avery Bradley and Thabo Sefolosha to be floor-spreading wings? Bradley only attempted 54 threes this season and Sefolosha only attempted 70. Even Manu Ginobili had over 120, and he rarely seems to spot up. Randy Foye had over 300.

      Also, the last time Sefolosha cracked 35% was his rookie season six years ago.

    49. Last night’s game provides strong evidence why the Lakers seem likely to offer the mini-MLE to Novak. If you give Kobe the ball at the top of the key with Novak and Blake at the corner 3s, there would be a lot more space for him, Pau and Bynum to operate.

    50. Doug:
      Max, do you consider Avery Bradley and Thabo Sefolosha to be floor-spreading wings? Bradley only attempted 54 threes this season and Sefolosha only attempted 70. Even Manu Ginobili had over 120, and he rarely seems to spot up. Randy Foye had over 300.

      Also, the last time Sefolosha cracked 35% was his rookie season six years ago.

      Yeah, Thabo and Bradley are questionable. They mostly only shoot when wide open. Manu’s totals are held down because he plays fewer reg. season minutes. Per 36 mins this season, he makes 2.4 of 5.7 3PAs, so he’d be up around 300-350 on the season if he played starter minutes and didn’t sit games.

    51. ephus:
      Last night’s game provides strong evidence why the Lakers seem likely to offer the mini-MLE to Novak.If you give Kobe the ball at the top of the key with Novak and Blake at the corner 3s, there would be a lot more space for him, Pau and Bynum to operate.

      Totally agree. Novak on the Lakers makes pretty good sense, and they have enough defenders on that team to hide him pretty well. The mini-MLE teams definitely scare me re: Novak leaving.

    52. ruruland:
      Hey Max, I agree with you 100 percent.Tried to make that same point myself. The Heat have some very good shooters, though.

      True, and they’re a very good team. Still I feel like it’s more of a problem when your wings can’t shoot because it’s much easier to find floor spacing wings than floor spacing bigs. Let’s say Miami traded Wade for Manu Ginobili (assuming he stayed healthy) or for an impact big like… Tyson Chandler or one of the Gasols, allowing them to add another role player shooting wing into the lineup. Don’t you think they’d be a better team?

    53. thenamestsam: Can’t see it for them. For one I don’t think they’d ever trade Lebron. When you have the best player in the league, you’re basically always better trying to make things work with that guy than moving him. I think they’d be more likely to trade Wade than Lebron and even that is incredibly unlikely.

      Even if they were to trade Lebron I can’t see that package interesting them. If they trade one of the big 3 I think they’d be looking for lower usage guys who can contribute more outside of their scoring. Lin + Melo instead of Lebron only exacerbates their problems with having guys who are primarily scorers. I can’t see it for them.

      I’ve made this point before and I’ll repeat it: it is too soon to call Lin a scoring PG. To me, a lot of his scoring came out of necessity; maybe you feel some sort of way about how D’Antoni rode him, but even Jeffries stated that Lin was scoring “in the flow of the offense”.

    54. …and I don’t think that’s a bad package at all for LeBron. No way they trade him, unless he inexplicably falls out of favor of his situation and seriously decides to exercise his opt-out.

    55. The only combo from one team I think Miami considers for Lebron is Durant and Westbrooke for Lebron. Other than that, ain’t happening. And I don’t think OKC makes that trade.

      The Infamous Cdiggy:
      …and I don’t think that’s a bad package at all for LeBron.No way they trade him, unless he inexplicably falls out of favor of his situation and seriously decides to exercise his opt-out.

    56. As Larry Coon stated in his chat, the Apron would turn into a hard cap if the Knicks use their full MLE (anything more than the mini-MLE) or the BAE. So even if the Knicks were obtained early Bird rights for Lin and Novak, they would not be able to use the MLE and cross $74 MM. Likely means that the Knicks would need to trade Douglas for a draft pick (either protected or draft someone in Europe who would not sign this year) and bow out on resigning Fields in order to have the full MLE.

      Definitely, but if the Knicks had the MLE on top of being able to re-sign Lin and Novak with Early Bird Rights, they’d drop Fields in an instant since it would meant they’d have a shot at Nash. So it really is not a bad thing. The Knicks getting Early Bird rights for Lin and Novak would still be a major benefit to the Knicks. And you have to figure that with Douglas there is a decent chance that he can be given away for a fake pick. He’s only signed for one more year and he is a year removed from playing very well.

      By the way, if the Knicks were not planning on ever playing Douglas (and they sure did not seem to be planning on ever playing him) then why would they pick up his option when they knew that they were going to keep his trade value down by benching him for months? That move seems sillier and sillier as time goes by.

      Also, in terms of backloaded contracts for Arenas players, is it the first year that has to be $5 million or is it the first two? I thought it was the first two.

    57. first two would make sense since it guarantees that you eventually can get full bird rights for any rookie, even a guy who you only sign for a year.

      @johnlocke – maybe not James, but definitely Wade. The issue is Wade or James getting hurt forces you to play Battier and Miller more, guys who are competent NBA players. Bosh injury forces MIA to play Joel Anthony 35mins last game, which pretty much wrecked their offense (they shot 35% from the fields).

    58. “Owen, that’s an impressive website. What do you think of ElGee’s Expected Value (EV) metric? Do you think it comes any closer to a reliable all-in-one measure of player value?”

      I haven’t had time to look at it. I saw some APBR guys commenting and they liked it a lot. It is a pretty fantastic site though from having read a few things.

      I think he looked at 2009-11 in this post.

      The numbers are pretty great in some of the linked posts also. I did not know for instance that the average margin of victory was so similar in the playoffs. I would have thought games were closer. And the fact that the average differential is 10 points after three quarters, or that the team with the lead at the 43 minute mark wins 86% of the time in his sample, that’s good stuff. Or the fact that differential in the first five minutes is a better predictor of victory than the final five minutes.

      And the bit of about Shaq and the correlation between winning nba titles and missing a lot of free throws is clever.

      I agree it’s basically common sense. There is no reason to think the 2-3% of possessions which occur in the last five minutes close and late are that much more important is clearly wrong.

      But it’s not how the average fan thinks about it, humans being riddled with emotional and cognitive biases as they are.

      And Ruruland, I think you missed the point of the post….

      ruruland: Carmelo looks really good on that, btw. Might want to get a different link up.

    59. Frank: Novak on the Lakers makes pretty good sense, and they have enough defenders on that team to hide him pretty well. The mini-MLE teams definitely scare me re: Novak leaving.

      That’s why the Early Bird rights arbitration decision really is about
      Novak, not Lin. Absent Early Bird rights, the Knicks could not bid more than the BAE for Novak — more than $1.2 MM less. Even if the Knicks included a second year as a player option, the best that he could get from the Knicks after next season would be the average salary (which is approximately the same as the MLE). Even if the Knicks do not have Early Bird rights on Lin, they can keep him by using the MLE.

    60. definitely not Lebron, he initiates their entire offense. I buy the argument that Wade going down could have been better than Bosh I guess, but only marginally. Lebron would have to do even more scoring than he’s doing now b/c Bosh is not capable of scoring 28+ on the nightly basis and I don’t think Battier and Miller could pick up the difference b/c they can’t create their own offense.

      max fisher-cohen:

      @johnlocke – maybe not James, but definitely Wade. The issue is Wade or James getting hurt forces you to play Battier and Miller more, guys who are competent NBA players. Bosh injury forces MIA to play Joel Anthony 35mins last game, which pretty much wrecked their offense (they shot 35% from the fields).

    61. Brian Cronin: Also, in terms of backloaded contracts for Arenas players, is it the first year that has to be $5 million or is it the first two? I thought it was the first two.

      It has to be the first two years. Year 3 can go up to around $12.5 MM and year 4 can go up to $13.5 MM, for a total contract of $36 MM. For the Knicks, the first year of the contract is counted at face value — $5 MM. The team bidding against the Knicks, the first year of the contract is counted at average value — $9 MM. So only a team that has $9 MM in cap room could make the full bid. Unfortunately, it looks like the Raptors will be in that position.

    62. Jared Zwerling had a chat today and listed the possible 2 guards who could sign for the veteran’s minimum to replace Shump while he’s out – they included: Ray Allen, Mickael Pietrus, Anthony Parker and Grant Hill. Ray Allen would have to be the best pick/fit of that bunch right? Any chance he signs for the veteran’s minimum??

    63. Jared Zwerling had a chat today and listed the possible 2 guards who could sign for the veteran’s minimum to replace Shump while he’s out – they included: Ray Allen, Mickael Pietrus, Anthony Parker and Grant Hill. Ray Allen would have to be the best pick/fit of that bunch right? Any chance he signs for the veteran’s minimum??

      I could see him taking the minimum to play for a no doubt about it contender like the Spurs or something like that. Would he put the Knicks in league with teams like that? I dunno. It’d be amazing if it happened.

    64. That’s why the Early Bird rights arbitration decision really is about

      I would say that the bigger importance of the decision is the MLE becoming available for Nash, not keeping Novak. I’d love to keep Novak, but keeping him isn’t nearly as important as adding someone like Steve Nash.

    65. It has to be the first two years. Year 3 can go up to around $12.5 MM and year 4 can go up to $13.5 MM, for a total contract of $36 MM. For the Knicks, the first year of the contract is counted at face value — $5 MM. The team bidding against the Knicks, the first year of the contract is counted at average value — $9 MM. So only a team that has $9 MM in cap room could make the full bid. Unfortunately, it looks like the Raptors will be in that position.

      Okay, good, that’s what I thought the deal was. Yeah, it does sound like the Raptors are interested in making the 4 year/$36 million offer. The Knicks would still certainly match that, but ugh, it’d be a pain in the ass.

    66. If Ray Allen is going to play for the veteran’s minimum, I have to imagine it will be for the Celtics. And there are a lot of teams that need his spot up shooting and will have cap room and/or MLE money to use, including the Celtics.

    67. Brian Cronin: I could see him taking the minimum to play for a no doubt about it contender like the Spurs or something like that. Would he put the Knicks in league with teams like that? I dunno. It’d be amazing if it happened.

      I could see him taking the minimum maybe, but being realistic why would he come here? As Knicks fans we tend to assume that everyone is dreaming of playing here, but there are tons of better situations for him. He’d be a great fit in OKC. He’d be a great fit in Miami. Boston will obviously want to keep him around if he’s willing to play for the minimum. He’d be amazing for the Clippers. Good fit for the Spurs. There are tons of more serious contenders in good markets where he’d be a good fit. I think he’ll get more than the minimum, but even if he doesn’t I expect him to stay in Boston or go to a more serious contender. I’d say the same goes for Hill (likely to have a better option). Pietrus and Parker are the realistic options in my mind.

    68. BigBlueAL:
      I guess Im the only person excited about Georgios Printezis.Bring him in!!lol

      Count me in. If nothing else, maybe we can use his rights as a sweetener in order to dump Douglas and free up some $.

    69. “He’d be a great fit in OKC. He’d be a great fit in Miami. Boston will obviously want to keep him around if he’s willing to play for the minimum. He’d be amazing for the Clippers. Good fit for the Spurs.”

      Allen would be amazing on the Clippers I think. The delta between him and Young/Foye is enormous.

    70. So the worst case scenario for our starting line-ups (barring no further injury – fingers crossed) is –> Lin, Pietrus/Delfino/Fields, Melo, Amare and Tyson …. w/ Delfino/Pietrus/Fields, Toney Douglas, Jorts, Jordan, Jeffries, TBD veteran PT guard, TBD veteran shooting guard, coming off the bench….if we don’t get Smith or Novak back our bench depth is pretty bad.

    71. johnlocke:
      So the worst case scenario for our starting line-ups (barring no further injury – fingers crossed) is –> Lin, Pietrus/Delfino/Fields, Melo, Amare and Tyson …. w/ Delfino/Pietrus/Fields, Toney Douglas, Jorts, Jordan, Jeffries, TBD veteran PT guard, TBD veteran shooting guard, coming off the bench….if we don’t get Smith or Novak back our bench depth is pretty bad.

      There might be a gem or two in the second round (shooters)…. Don’t discount Jordan as a player — but yeah possible big need for shooting still

    72. I see a possibility that Jorts can develop into a homeless man’s Kevin Love — strong rebounding, good post defense and adequate three point shooting. If one of Jorts and Jordan turn into a true rotation player, the Knicks are in much better shape.

    73. Jerome Jordan seems like he should be able to contribute. He has legit center size and appears to be athletic. He played well in 108 NBA minutes, shooting a respectable .561 TS% and knocking down 8 of 10 free throws. He averaged 18.8 PPG and 8.6 RPG in 5 regular season D-League games, hitting 82% of his free throws, and played well in the D-League playoffs, shooting 22-32 and hitting 93% of his free throws.

      If you give him minutes, I bet he plays well.

    74. Anyone else see Wade”s physical altercation with Spoelstra…… Wade is falling apart right now on national tv

    75. JK47:
      Jerome Jordan seems like he should be able to contribute.He has legit center size and appears to be athletic.He played well in 108 NBA minutes, shooting a respectable .561 TS% and knocking down 8 of 10 free throws.He averaged 18.8 PPG and 8.6 RPG in 5 regular season D-League games, hitting 82% of his free throws, and played well in the D-League playoffs, shooting 22-32 and hitting 93% of his free throws.

      If you give him minutes, I bet he plays well.

      hes intriguing well beyond his numbers, too…. His length, size, feet and fluid movement makes him a great prospect physically… Considering he’s only played ball for a few years he could be another Lin.

    76. Ruru,

      “Physical altercation” is overselling it. It was not even at the level of last year’s bump, let alone anything Spreewell-like.

      On the other hand, I think we are seeing a real rift between Wade and Spoelstra. If the Pacer eliminate the Heat, one of Spoelstra or Wade will not be back next season.

      Can you say Big Chief Triangle in South Beach?.

    77. Jackson’s people have done a good job in the last week getting the word out that he is ready to coach again, and that the Knicks have not come calling.

      Spoelstra has done an awful job during the past two games of putting his team in a position to win. it is obvious that the Heat without Bosh do not have the half court offense to win a slow-it-down game. But Spoelstra is not doing anything to encourage a fast pace.

    78. If you make Indiana run back on defense, you take away most of Hibbert’s effectiveness. On the other hand, if Hibbert makes baskets, Miami cannot run.

    79. Phil Jackson ain’t working for Pat Riley. You guys are either young or have short memories. They are arch rivals.

    80. JK47:
      Jerome Jordan seems like he should be able to contribute.He has legit center size and appears to be athletic.He played well in 108 NBA minutes, shooting a respectable .561 TS% and knocking down 8 of 10 free throws.He averaged 18.8 PPG and 8.6 RPG in 5 regular season D-League games, hitting 82% of his free throws, and played well in the D-League playoffs, shooting 22-32 and hitting 93% of his free throws.

      If you give him minutes, I bet he plays well.

      He was 6-11 in his only game in non garbage minutes, but was against lowly Bobcats.
      He is 25 and turning 26 in September. He already played twice overseas. He probably playing summer league ball and should get some minutes in preseason.
      He getting close to him prime age so hopefully Knicks give him a chance to make the rotations.

    81. Not young and I know the history. But Riley is not Arison. And if Arison wants Jackson, you could see the end of Riley/Spoelstra.

      If the Pacers eliminate the Heat, Riley’s experiment will have been a failure. Either Riley blows it up, or Riley runs the risk of being out. And yes, I know he has a small ownership stake.

    82. As Howard Cosell said after George Foreman knocked down Joe Frazier for the last time — “It’s over. It’s all over.” Miami has been exposed. Too bad the Knicks were not the team to do it.

    83. Long way from over but you think we are witnessing one out-of-nowhere declines from Wade? Something is seriously wrong with him.

    84. ephus: It has to be the first two years.Year 3 can go up to around $12.5 MM and year 4 can go up to $13.5 MM, for a total contract of $36 MM.For the Knicks, the first year of the contract is counted at face value — $5 MM.The team bidding against the Knicks, the first year of the contract is counted at average value — $9 MM.So only a team that has $9 MM in cap room could make the full bid.Unfortunately, it looks like the Raptors will be in that position.

      Beside the Net, I believe Raptors would gain most from tickets sales. There is about 800,000 Asian living in Toronto. Of course their also marketing side. These offers will be Owner decision driven based on profit.

    85. I know they have all the talent in the world, but how can people be fans of this Heat organization?

    86. Either (1) Wade is hurt, (2) Wade and Spoelstra (or James) have had a serious blow up and he is mailing it in, (3) Wade has some off-the-court issue in the last week that has totally distracted him, or (4) Wade is no longer a game changing force. I highly doubt it is #4, since we just saw him take over a couple of games against the Knicks. I have no idea whether it is #1, #2 or #3.

    87. ephus:
      As Howard Cosell said after George Foreman knocked down Joe Frazier for the last time — “It’s over.It’s all over.”Miami has been exposed.Too bad the Knicks were not the team to do it.

      BTW, I meant Game 3 was over, not the series.

    88. ephus:
      Either (1) Wade is hurt, (2) Wade and Spoelstra (or James) have had a serious blow up and he is mailing it in, (3) Wade has some off-the-court issue in the last week that has totally distracted him, or (4) Wade is no longer a game changing force.I highly doubt it is #4, since we just saw him take over a couple of games against the Knicks.I have no idea whether it is #1, #2 or #3.

      yeah….he looked so distant….. Truly bizzarre

    89. It’s weird, since Bosh went down, Wade has just become a shell of himself. It’s like he just gave up.

      It’s also weird that I don’t feel giddy that the Heat might be eliminated in the 2nd round. Maybe it’s because I know it means a trip to the Finals for the Celtics, which would be hard to take.

    90. What would you have said if someone told you before the game that the Heat’s three leading scorers would be LeBron, Mario Chalmers and Joel Anthony? What in the world is wrong with Wade and what in the world was that altercation between him and Spoelstra? And what in the world was LeBron doing in the fourth quarter? Are we seeing the return of LeBron’s fourth quarter playoff passivity already? That was a truly weird (non)performance by the Heat…

    91. ruruland:
      Celtics Spurs finals wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world

      I’m pretty sure our friends at ABC/ESPN would disagree. They can sell any series with Miami nationally. They can sell any series with the lakers nationally. OKC would be a tougher sell, but they could build the brand equity of Durant/Westbrook/Harden for a big run over the next decade. But a battle of the twilight gods between Boston (decent market) and San Antonio (tiny market) would be tough.

    92. Dwyane Wade tonight = Landry Fields maybe even < Landry Fields. With 25 points on 10-15 shooting, 6 rebounds and 5 assists, the Heat were once again led by three time MVP Lebron Ja...oh no wait a minute. That was Mario Chalmers. Can someone verify that? Is this right? Only 5 of the 11 Heat players to play scored at least a point. WOW. Wade has the worst shooting percentage of any Heat player to score.

    93. What was weird to me was them going to James Jones so early in the 4th qtr to try and get back into the game. I think they were down 15 with 7 minutes left.

    94. The key to the pacers-heat series is how tight they call it. Vogel was smart to get on the refs early — the pacers are just beating the crap out the heat, relying on our 90s strategy that if you foul constantly, the refs won’t call them all. Heat without Bosh need refs to call hand checks, pushes down low etc. In game 3, refs let them play. My guess is that in Game 4, the refs will call it much tighter.

    95. Why is everyone discounting Indiana? They probably had the best or 2nd best record post ASG in the league…Are we discounting them cuz we beat them twice? I know Miami is missing Bosh…but I kept saying throughout the Knicks series that outside of game 1 they were not impressive…we were just terrible and making them look better than they were. Indiana won’t beat the spurs or okc…..but could be the least superstar/all star laden team to make it to the finals in a long time. Is Hibbert even third team all NBA? Doubt it.

      ruruland:
      Celtics Spurs finals wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world

    96. Roy Hibbert earned a lot of money tonight. Someone is going to give him at least 4/50, and you have to imagine that the Pacers will match.

    97. ruruland:
      Celtics Spurs finals wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world

      one thing you need to learn about being a Knicks fan is that Boston losing is almost as important as the Knicks winning.

    98. ephus: Ruru,“Physical altercation” is overselling it. It was not even at the level of last year’s bump, let alone anything Spreewell-like.On the other hand, I think we are seeing a real rift between Wade and Spoelstra. If the Pacer eliminate the Heat, one of Spoelstra or Wade will not be back next season. Can you say Big Chief Triangle in South Beach?.

      Physical altercation suggests that fists were thrown which clearly was not the case, but the way Wade was in his face was really, really bad…the stance he had was one of real disrespect, treated him like a guy in a nightclub that spilled a drink on him. Spoelstra looked intimidated or maybe was trying not to have it escalate. I didnt watch the game, but that confrontation cant be underestimated; that was shocking. The pressure is clearly mounting now and they could be done in this second round.

    99. Eternal OptiKnist: Physical altercation suggests that fists were thrown which clearly was not the case, but the way Wade was in his face was really, really bad…the stance he had was one of real disrespect, treated him like a guy in a nightclub that spilled a drink on him.Spoelstra looked intimidated or maybe was trying not to have it escalate.I didnt watch the game, but that confrontation cant be underestimated; that was shocking.The pressure is clearly mounting now and they could be done in this second round.

      It was nearly a physical altercation I suppose is what I meant. Just the body language suggested to me that Wade wanted to literally fight him. It was one of the more shocking things that I’ve seen on TV on an NBA sideline from a guy lauded for his leadership and “character.”

    100. jon abbey: one thing you need to learn about being a Knicks fan is that Boston losing is almost as important as the Knicks winning.

      Hey, I’m not rooting for Boston by any stretch. Would it be sweeter if they lost in the NBA or the Eastern Finals?

      Moreover, if they win another one do they sort of lose their edge next year?

    101. david:
      The key to the pacers-heat series is how tight they call it. Vogel was smart to get on the refs early — the pacers are just beating the crap out the heat, relying on our 90s strategy that if you foul constantly, the refs won’t call them all.Heat without Bosh need refs to call hand checks, pushes down low etc.In game 3, refs let them play.My guess is that in Game 4, the refs will call it much tighter.

      This. Thank you. You see what happens when those two guys don’t get protection. The Heat have had an overwhelming foul and free throw advantage up until tonight — some of it was merited, some not, but it’s a HUGe advantage and not just the points that directly result from those fouls but how the Heat and their opponent approach each play.

    102. johnlocke:
      Why is everyone discounting Indiana? They probably had the best or 2nd best record post ASG in the league…Are we discounting them cuz we beat them twice? I know Miami is missing Bosh…but I kept saying throughout the Knicks series that outside of game 1 they were not impressive…we were just terrible and making them look better than they were. Indiana won’t beat the spurs or okc…..but could be the least superstar/all star laden team to make it to the finals in a long time. Is Hibbert even third team all NBA? Doubt it.

      We didn’t have enough of the pieces healthy to take advantage of Miami’s weaknesses but they are also a front-running team that doesn’t handle adversity well. if they have an advantage on you and you cannot counterattack them they will run you out of the building, but they don’t respond to hard punches at all.

      And Bosh does make a huge difference in their half-court game. I think Indiana is a solid team, but you saw what we did to them in Indiana after whooping them in NY.. That just doesn’t happen to great teams that are healthy.

      But, again, it’s a lot about match-ups as well. And a guy like Hibbert is actually far more impactful in this kind of series than Chandler could be at his best — and Chandler, frankly, had a terrible series.

    103. ruruland: Hey, I’m not rooting for Boston by any stretch. Would it be sweeter if they lost in the NBA or the Eastern Finals?

      Moreover, if they win another one do they sort of lose their edge next year?

      ideally they would all die in a plane crash, and the plane would crash into the Patriots’ training camp. :)

    104. ruruland: It was nearly a physical altercation I suppose is what I meant. Just the body language suggested to me that Wade wanted to literally fight him. It was one of the more shocking things that I’ve seen on TV on an NBA sideline from a guy lauded for his leadership and “character.”

      Wade is a thug, one of the five dirtiest players in the league, and it’s amazing the shit he gets away with because of his somehow untouchable image.

      that being said, I’ve seen this incident a few times now, and it seems pretty overblown to me. Wade’s performance is the red flag, dunno what’s going on there, but the thing with Spoelstra is close to a non-issue IMO.

    105. jon abbey: ideally they would all die in a plane crash, and the plane would crash into the Patriots’ training camp. :)

      lmao

    106. @ #9
      I agree that over-parsing what athletes say can be silly, since they aren’t paid millions to be great managers of media. But it’s certainly food for fodder, especially if you’re going to talk about narratives — isn’t that partly why we watch sports? As for Lebron’s comments, I’m not saying there is only one right answer to questions posed by sports writers — yes, it’s really boring that most players just feed prepared platitudes. I guess I’m particularly struck by how Lebron he seems precisely to play into the storyline that he isn’t clutch and doesn’t have killer alpha male instinct.

      While posters in this thread have iterated how the final 5 minutes are typically overweighted in their importance, and game scores are cumulative over four quarters instead of decided by ‘clutch’ time yada yada yada, it totally does matter WHO makes this kind of analysis. If the point is made by observers such as ourselves as a corrective to the concept of clutch, that’s all legit, but it is fundamentally different when a player WHO CAN AFFECT THE OUTCOME of games says the same thing. Statistical analysis is about the even distribution of destinies across a general multitude of cases, whereas a player’s involvement is about the shaping of a specific game. For example, a doctor (who is an observer) may point out that a certain cancer has a low survival rate, this is a “general” destiny that applies to everyone yet no one in particular. But if a particular patient (who is a participant who shapes the outcome) points to the same stat to imply that whatever he does, or doesn’t do, will not change the outcome therefore he has no responsibility in what happens, then this statistical citation by the participant is not true in the same way that it is generally true when the observer cites it. I’m not sure how clearly I’ve conveyed my point, but I guess the idea is that stats apply to all games in a general and unspecific way, whereas players affect actual,…

    107. thenamestsam:
      Lin spouts the same endless platitudes as every other player. If I had a nickel for every time I’ve heard a player say “I didn’t get the job done tonight and that’s on me” I’d be a rich man.

      I hear what you’re saying about most players spouting the same BS, but these do take meaningfully different forms. My impression is that the typical form uses the collective ‘we’ in assigning fault. When I’ve watched the post-game Q&A videos on Knicks Now, my impression is that Melo and Amare usually do it that way. Eg, “We didn’t come out with the right intensity tonight.” I can’t recall Melo owning a loss, and I certainly have never heard Amare point out out and owning up to his poor defense in any post-game interview. If Amare had said anything like that, it would be meaningful instead of just an empty platitude because it would at least suggest he has an awareness of this problem in his game.

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