Knicks Morning News (Sunday, Jul 08 2012)

  • [New York Daily News] Lupica: Is NY in his best Linterest? ALL  (Sun, 08 Jul 2012 07:57:00 GMT)

    You keep hearing about the boatloads of money that Jeremy Lin will make for the Knicks, from the jerseys he sells here all the way to the far reaches of the Asian market, as if we are somehow talking about a new basketball app and not a Harvard point guard.

  • [New York Daily News] Knicks to meet with free-agent Camby (Sun, 08 Jul 2012 05:08:46 GMT)

    The Knicks will meet with free agent center Marcus Camby Sunday in Houston, the Daily News has learned.

  • [New York Daily News] Back with Mike and Team USA, Melo says everything’s fine (Sun, 08 Jul 2012 04:10:05 GMT)

    The way it abruptly ended it for Mike D’Antoni in New York, the last person you’d expect to see him spending his summer vacation with is Carmelo Anthony.

  • [New York Times] U.S. Olympic Basketball Team Is Unveiled (Sun, 08 Jul 2012 05:40:08 GMT)

    Blake Griffin, James Harden and Andre Iguodala made the final cut as Coach Mike Krzyzewski announced the roster for the United States Olympic basketball team.

  • [New York Times] Carmelo Anthony Welcomes Addition of Jason Kidd to Knicks (Sun, 08 Jul 2012 00:59:53 GMT)

    After a season in which he felt pressure to carry the offense, Carmelo Anthony welcomed the addition of point guard Jason Kidd to the Knicks.

  • [New York Times] Sports Briefing | Pro Basketball: Portland Trail Blazers President Larry Miller Resigns (Sun, 08 Jul 2012 03:07:27 GMT)

    Larry Miller has resigned as the president of the Portland Trail Blazers. The team said that Miller, who had two years left on his contract, was taking a position with another Portland-area business.

  • [New York Times] Riff: LeBron James Is a Sack of Melons (Sun, 08 Jul 2012 00:15:15 GMT)

    Evaluating the historical impact of perhaps the greatest, and weirdest, basketball player ever.

  • [New York Times] LeBron, Kobe Return to U.S. Team for London Games (Sun, 08 Jul 2012 00:13:18 GMT)

    Five members of the gold medal winning lineup at the 2008 Bejing Games were included in the 12-man U.S. Olympic basketball team announced by USA Basketball chairman Jerry Colangelo on Saturday.

  • [New York Times] Off the Dribble: For Anthony and D’Antoni, a Reunion With the U.S. Team (Sun, 08 Jul 2012 01:15:47 GMT)

    A pre-Olympics practice brought Carmelo Anthony together with Mike D’Antoni, whose resignation as the Knicks’ coach was followed by a spurt of victories.

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    Mike Kurylo

    Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

    120 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (Sunday, Jul 08 2012)”

    1. I have been reading the chatter here and I’m a little struck by the debate.
      To me, the Knicks window is now. Amare and Melo and Tyson are in their physical primes. We have very good young guards in Lin and Shump. We have youth on the bench.
      But we lacked depth at the 5 and 1.
      Anyone can see the drop off in size and defensive intensity when Tyson left the game and when Jeffries was injured. I love Jeffries, but his physical play does not appear to be sustainable. His knees won’t hold up. He simply isn’t a 5.
      This obviates the need for a Camby-like player. He is older, but if he can give the Knicks 25 minutes to balance Tyson, great. And the defensive skills may be different than Tyson’s, but he is still a formidable defender and not a big drop off. I could give a shit if he can’t hit foul shots. In my perfect world, he’s not on the line much to begin with, given we have as our primary scorers, Melo, Amare and Lin, probably in that order.
      Second, last year, after Lin, there was a huge drop off at the point once Lin went down. Baron was not good, and his body couldn’t handle the rigor. And the undead lived up to his nickname.
      This obviates the need for a guy who can play 20 to 25 minutes at the point who knows how to pass into the post, who knows handing the ball to Amare 20 feet from the basket isn’t a tactic, who understands that the ball should find Melo in motion, not where it stops and he uses 10 seconds jab-stepping and then doing what everyone knows he’ll do. If there was a better field general than Kidd on the market, we couldn’t afford him.
      And we would give up little to achieve this. I will miss Fields, but at his best he is a sound role player who isn’t good from 3, and forwards are everywhere.
      We are formidable with Kidd and Camby, probably top 3 in th east, if we get Camby. We need a more mobile, consistent threat from 3. Novak and JR aren’t that guy, but we’ll see. But so far as I’m concerned Grunwald is gold.

    2. I agree with Frank O. Kidd and Camby, so long as healthy and limited in minutes, are huge upgrades. I don’t want to dismiss Jeffries, but he is injured too much to make a real impact. When he plays, he is fearless, which unfortunately contributes to his injuries. I could also see Camby playing some minutes with Chandler—good luck penetrating. Lin, Shump, Melo, Camby and Chandler would be an interesting group and hellish on the defensive end.

    3. The potential return of Camby brings me back to one of the darkest moments in my Knick fandom – the 2002 draft and the Antonio McDyess trade. I went to MSG that day fearing that the Knicks would do something stupid with the seventh pick. Sure enough, Knicks trade Camby, the rights to Nene and Mark Jackson to Denver for Antonio McDyesss, who had not yet recovered from patella surgery. McDyess reinjured himself during pre-season and never effectively played for the Knicks. A year and a half later, the Knicks sent McDyess to Phoenix for Marbury. Ugliness abounded.

      As I recall, the knocks on Camby at the time were (1) he was too slightly built to survive much longer in the league once his athleticism faded and (2) he provided no low post presence. I think its pretty clear that Camby has withstood the test of time, even though he never had a back-to-the-basket game.

      If you add Camby and Nene back to the 2002-03 Knicks, they were probably a 7 or 8 seed in the East. More importantly, there is never the impetus for the devastating Marbury and Curry trades.

      I would welcome Camby back, despite his flaws. He has always been a little petulant and often free lanced on defense to the detriment of the scheme. But he provides defense, rebounding and intensity. If the Knicks need to S&T Jorts and Jordan to make it happen, I say go for it.

    4. daJudge: I agree with Frank O. Kidd and Camby, so long as healthy and limited in minutes, are huge upgrades.

      I agree and I think we need to guard against age-ism on this board. I mean, everyone in the media was singing Derek Jeter’s swan song after 2010 and it turned out it was just a down year. The reason Brett Favre kept coming back, was not that the Vikings thought they could get a publicity bump. Andy Pettite will get people out for as long as he plays, and if he feels he’s slipping he’ll get out before he hurts his legacy.

      The point is, the advances in the science of fitness have been real and demonstrable. We’re not getting damaged goods in Kidd and (please God! I’ve been good…sort of) Camby. Kidd’s production was down last year but I think there’s a good chance he regresses back to the mean, for him, which is HOF level. He’s not too old!

      I did say, before the signing, that my only problem with Kidd was that he embarrassed Marbury regularly and gleefully and I learned to truly dislike the Nets during his tenure. I’m gonna get used to it in a hurry.

    5. I did say, before the signing, that my only problem with Kidd was that he embarrassed Marbury regularly and gleefully and I learned to truly dislike the Nets during his tenure.I’m gonna get used to it in a hurry.

      Those Nets-Knicks “contests” of the early 2000’s were truly painful to watch. Players like Kenyon Martin, Richard Jefferson and Kidd had smirks on their faces, knowing we couldn’t compete with them, and we did nothing to change that. And of course the Tim Thomas “fugazy” quote and their complete dismantling of us in the 2004 playoffs was the lowlight.

    6. Lmao good times.

      Now hypothetically. If for some reason we don’t get Camby

      Is there any serviceable unsigned rookie that we can use? Or how about increasing the minutes of Jordan?

      With that said about rookies, I for one think we should drop/trade w.e. TD and go for a rookie as the third string PG.

    7. I just made the mistake of reading Lupica’s article, and just got even dumber than I already am. At least it’s a good reminder of why I generally don’t read newspapers or watch ESPN anymore.

    8. ephus:
      The potential return of Camby brings me back to one of the darkest moments in my Knick fandom –the 2002 draft and the Antonio McDyess trade.I went to MSG that day fearing that the Knicks would do something stupid with the seventh pick.Sure enough, Knicks trade Camby, the rights to Nene and Mark Jackson to Denver for Antonio McDyesss, who had not yet recovered from patella surgery.McDyess reinjured himself during pre-season and never effectively played for the Knicks.A year and a half later, the Knicks sent McDyess to Phoenix for Marbury.Ugliness abounded.

      As I recall, the knocks on Camby at the time were (1) he was too slightly built to survive much longer in the league once his athleticism faded and (2) he provided no low post presence.I think its pretty clear that Camby has withstood the test of time, even though he never had a back-to-the-basket game.

      If you add Camby and Nene back to the 2002-03 Knicks, they were probably a 7 or 8 seed in the East.More importantly, there is never the impetus for the devastating Marbury and Curry trades.

      I would welcome Camby back, despite his flaws.He has always beena little petulant and often free lanced on defense to the detriment of the scheme.But he provides defense, rebounding and intensity.If the Knicks need to S&T Jorts and Jordan to make it happen, I say go for it.

      I still have nightmares about that trade. Wasn’t that also Amare’s draft? I seem to remember thinking the Knicks could have kept Camby and drafted Amare, or am I remembering that wrong?

    9. danvt: I agree and I think we need to guard against age-ism on this board.I mean, everyone in the media was singing Derek Jeter’s swan song after 2010 and it turned out it was just a down year.The reason Brett Favre kept coming back, was not that the Vikings thought they could get a publicity bump.Andy Pettite will get people out for as long as he plays, and if he feels he’s slipping he’ll get out before he hurts his legacy.

      The point is, the advances in the science of fitness have been real and demonstrable.We’re not getting damaged goods in Kidd and (please God! I’ve been good…sort of) Camby.Kidd’s production was down last year but I think there’s a good chance he regresses back to the mean, for him, which is HOF level.He’s not too old!

      I did say, before the signing, that my only problem with Kidd was that he embarrassed Marbury regularly and gleefully and I learned to truly dislike the Nets during his tenure.I’m gonna get used to it in a hurry.

      I agree with the ageism thing. I’ve read too many posts on here ripping on Nash, Kidd and Camby based on their age.

    10. 2FOR18:
      I just made the mistake of reading Lupica’s article, and just got even dumber than I already am.At least it’s a good reminder of why I generally don’t read newspapers or watch ESPN anymore.

      yea..Lupica’s opinion sucks! He sounds like a hater of Skip Bayless proportions…but I like Skip, so Lupica’s article is even worse. How could u not trust Kidd for 20 mpg?? I admit he is old..but this past season was truncated and rushed. No reason to not expect typical J Kidd play..just on a smaller scale as he will not be getting starters minutes. Ditto for Camby if we land him.

    11. 2FOR18: Wasn’t that also Amare’s draft? I seem to remember thinking the Knicks could have kept Camby and drafted Amare, or am I remembering that wrong?

      Amar’e was taken ninth by the Suns. I don’t think the Knicks would have been interested in him at the time, but drafting Nene and keeping him as a low post threat would have accomplished exactly what the Knicks were trying to do with McDyess, and allowed Camby to stay in NY.

    12. ephus: Amar’e was taken ninth by the Suns.I don’t think the Knicks would have been interested in him at the time, but drafting Nene and keeping him as a low post threat would have accomplished exactly what the Knicks were trying to do with McDyess, and allowed Camby to stay in NY.

      Layden, in typically sound judgement, would have selected Chris Wilcox had he kept the pick.

    13. Z: Layden, in typically sound judgement, would have selected Chris Wilcox had he kept the pick.

      I cannot dismiss the possibility, but the Knicks would have been much better off with Camby plus Wilcox (or Jeffries) than McDyess.

    14. @10

      That’s the first time I’ve ever heard somebody express admiration for Skip Bayless.

    15. For you Met fans out there, Scott Layden was the Jim Duquette of the Knicks. Isiah Thomas was the Omar Minaya.

    16. JK47: For you Met fans out there, Scott Layden was the Jim Duquette of the Knicks. Isiah Thomas was the Omar Minaya.

      Isiah Thomas was so much worse than Minaya it is hard to fathom.

      1. Isiah Thomas assembled super-high priced talent that never won a single playoff game and never finished a season above .500. Minaya’s 2006 Mets team was one game away from the World Series. Even though the 2007 and 2008 teams had ugly collapses, they had the talent to climb to the top of the pile before their swan dives.

      2. Even Minaya’s worst moves do not come close to five of Thomas’ blunders: (1) Trading years of cap space for Stephon Marbury, (2) Trading Trevor Ariza for Steve Francis when the Knicks already had Marbury, (3) Spending $30 million on Jerome James two weeks before trading for Eddy Curry, (4) Trading for Eddy Curry, and (5) Signing Jared Jeffries to the full MLE.

      3. Even if Minaya were as bad in personnel evaluation as Thomas, Minaya’s clubhouse never had the scandal of the Knicks under Thomas. From start to finish, Thomas mishandled the Anucha Brown-Sanders situation, creating an embarrassment that dominated the back pages for over a year.

    17. JK47:
      For you Met fans out there, Scott Layden was the Jim Duquette of the Knicks.Isiah Thomas was the Omar Minaya.

      Not. Even. Close. Minaya built the 2006-2008 team that really should have gone further. He made a lot of bad moves thereafter, but at no point did either Thomas or Layden put together even a semblance of a good core. Duquette made some not so great decisions by he’s also now helped build the Baltimore team that looks pretty damn good in an impossible division and on a budget.

      Also, whereas Duquette gave his daughter a kidney, Thomas attempted suicide and blamed it on his daughter.

    18. Just for fun I compared 23 year old seasons of Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, and Jeremy Lin:

      Kidd
      TS .498
      TRB 7.4%
      AST 38.9%
      STL 3.3%
      TOV 19.1%
      USG 17.2%

      Nash
      TS .556
      TRB 5.6%
      AST 25.2%
      STL 2.0%
      TOV 13.6%
      USG 19.6%

      Lin
      TS .552
      TRB 6.6%
      AST 41.0%
      STL 3.0%
      TOV 21.4%
      USG 28.1%

      Obviously a difference in sample size but still…

    19. Oh, Isiah and Layden were worse, no question. The 2006 Mets were a good team.

      But there were some similarities too. Duquette and Layden both presided over completely lackluster, feeble teams and famously made trades where great young assets were shipped away for damaged-goods veterans who were never all that good in the first place (McDyess, Zambrano).

      And Isiah and Minaya were both big fans of the splashy, win-now move, both infatuated with overrated “name” players who had put up superficially impressive stat lines in the past. One could argue that the Knicks have still never snapped out of this mentality, but this management style reached its apotheosis with Isiah.

    20. I think instead of Isiah we should write “He that shan’t be named”. I just get the willies every time I write that guys name. What a catastrophe, what an embarrassment. Our Knicks, a laughing stock, and we’re still living with that legacy. Every time Barkley opens his smug trap. Every time someone talks about our lack of defense despite now having the dpoy.

    21. JK47:
      @10

      That’s the first time I’ve ever heard somebody express admiration for Skip Bayless.

      lol..yea..Skip’s funny..ridiculous even..but he and Stephen A make a good tandem on First Take

    22. looking forward to the people who championed Ryan Anderson all year explaining to me how his market value is only Gustavo Ayon (!!!).

    23. jon abbey:
      looking forward to the people who championed Ryan Anderson all year explaining to me how his market value is only Gustavo Ayon (!!!).

      I am mad that the Knicks are not going after him for that price. They need to come in at the last moment and Send them some player draft rights and a future pick. Oh well.

    24. he’s getting a 4/36 deal, so only teams with cap space could deal for him. similar deal that Jeff Green seems to have gotten, for the record.

    25. daJudge:

      We are formidable with Kidd and Camby, probably top 3 in th east, if we get Camby. We need a more mobile, consistent threat from 3. Novak and JR aren’t that guy, but we’ll see. But so far as I’m concerned Grunwald is gold.

      I was just thinking this; can we give it up for this guy? In one year, originally without the guarantee of having the job permanently secured, he’s taken a team with two max contracts and seemingly no roster or cap flexibility and managed to add the NBA defensive player of the year, a very promising young starting PG, the NBA leader in 3-point shooting, J.R. Smith and a bunch of depth to a previously barren bench. Yes, some of it was luck, like Lin coming to us, though as an organization they still gave him the shot nobody else gave. He even had the foresight to take a seemingly worthless player (Gadzuric) and add value to him by creatively structuring his contract so it could actually be used as an asset in a sign & trade scenario. Can we stop killing the guy for possibly spending $1 million too much on one player’s salary? Do any of you even remember how horrible Isaiah was?

      I have been thoroughly impressed thus far, so let’s try to quell our predisposed pessimism for just long enough to see how Grunwald’s moves will pan out.

    26. let’s see how the rest of this plays out, but yes, I’ve been saying for months that Grunwald has done a superb job building around the Melo and Amare deals that he was saddled with.

    27. Orlando is going to be Awful soon. They need to make the Houston trade and pick up some players and picks. Parsons, White/Jones, Martin, Scola, and some picks for Howard and Turk. I guess the key is maybe finding a third team.

    28. If Ryan Anderson is only worth $8 million/year, I am confident that the Knicks will be able to sign Novak for less than the full MLE.

      During the horrible game when the Knicks lost at home to the Hornets, I was impressed by Ayon. But he is a complimentary piece, not a centerpiece for a rebuilding team. I think it is going to be a long and ugly process.

    29. SeeWhyDee77: lol..yea..Skip’s funny..ridiculous even..but he and Stephen A make a good tandem on First Take

      I really wish this blog weren’t linked from ESPN’s NBA page, but hey, everybody needs to make money somehow…

    30. yellowboy90:
      Orlando is going to be Awful soon. They need to make the Houston trade and pick up some players and picks. Parsons, White/Jones, Martin, Scola, and some picks for Howard and Turk. I guess the key is maybe finding a third team.

      Exactly. Screw Howard’s feelings, at this point. He’s taken your organization through the ringers and you know Houston has been loading up on trade pieces and draft picks for exactly this purpose. Get it done and get him out of town, because he’s going to be an even bigger baby now that he’ll be triple-teamed with no one to knock down an open three. Magic are in full suck/tank/fire-sale mode.

    31. Good quote Robtachi, but not mine. Side note to Ephus, re: arbitrator’s decision—Hard to predict how things play out in court sometimes, you know? I think that holding was simply huge for the Knicks. Much of this discussion is born out of that case.

      Robtachi: I was just thinking this; can we give it up for this guy?In one year, originally without the guarantee of having the job permanently secured, he’s taken a team with two max contracts and seemingly no roster or cap flexibility and managed to add the NBA defensive player of the year, a very promising young starting PG, the NBA leader in 3-point shooting, J.R. Smith and a bunch of depth to a previously barren bench. Yes, some of it was luck, like Lin coming to us, though as an organization they still gave him the shot nobody else gave. He even had the foresight to take a seemingly worthless player (Gadzuric) and add value to him by creatively structuring his contract so it could actually be used as an asset in a sign & trade scenario.Can we stop killing the guy for possibly spending $1 million too much on one player’s salary?Do any of you even remember how horrible Isaiah was?

      I have been thoroughly impressed thus far, so let’s try to quell our predisposed pessimism for just long enough to see how Grunwald’s moves will pan out.

    32. daJudge:
      Good quote Robtachi, but not mine.Side note to Ephus, re: arbitrator’s decision—Hard to predict how things play out in court sometimes, you know?I think that holding was simply huge for the Knicks.Much of this discussion is born out of that case.

      Whoops, yeah, I had to quote one of your comments because the original one was over the character limit. Forgot to change the name. But you’re a cool dude too! :P

    33. daJudge: Side note to Ephus, re: arbitrator’s decision—Hard to predict how things play out in court sometimes, you know? I think that holding was simply huge for the Knicks. Much of this discussion is born out of that case.

      As I wrote immediately after the decision was announced, I have never been so happy to be wrong. I give enormous credit to Bartlestein and Kessler, who made an innovative argument work.

      The Lin victory has provided flexibility that otherwise would not exist. Without that win, there would be no Kidd, no Novak and no shot at Camby.

    34. Hinrich is going to get $3mil/yr from Chicago, who you’d generally consider a smart and successful organization, yes? To be as unspecific as possible, I prefer Kidd over Hinrich for the same money.

    35. Anybody else notice how close we are to having the 2nd best team in NY – if Bklyn gets Dwight?

    36. Sooo lemme get this straight… Eric Gordon would rather take less money to play with Goran Dragic and Marcin Gortat than Anthony Davis, Austin Rivers and Ryan Anderson? Come on, man.

    37. 2FOR18:
      Anybody else notice how close we are to having the 2nd best team in NY – if Bklyn gets Dwight?

      I really just don’t think it’s ever gonna happen. The Nets have nothing unless they involve a third team who has tons of assets, but why would Orlando bother including the Nets, then? Just to make Dwight happy? He’s given them every reason to tell him to go jump off a bridge and forget how to swim. They know if they hold him long enough, someone will want him enough to trade a boatload of players/picks even without a guarantee he’ll sign a long-term contract.

    38. Robtachi: I really just don’t think it’s ever gonna happen.The Nets have nothing unless they involve a third team who has tons of assets, but why would Orlando bother including the Nets, then? Just to make Dwight happy?He’s given them every reason to tell him to go jump off a bridge and forget how to swim.They know if they hold him long enough, someone will want him enough to trade a boatload of players/picks even without a guarantee he’ll sign a long-term contract.

      Because Dwight is scaring everyone else away by saying that the only team he will re-sign with, if traded, is the Nets.

    39. Orlando will be terrible, one less team for the Knicks to climb through. Still hoping for 2nd seed (LONG way off, I know). Boston going after Lee, he could help them (damn). We need Brandon Rush or Dorell Wright or Lee to back us up at the 2/3.

      Robtachi: Exactly. Screw Howard’s feelings, at this point. He’s taken your organization through the ringers and you know Houston has been loading up on trade pieces and draft picks for exactly this purpose. Get it done and get him out of town, because he’s going to be an even bigger baby now that he’ll be triple-teamed with no one to knock down an open three. Magic are in full suck/tank/fire-sale mode.

    40. Robtachi: so let’s try to quell our predisposed pessimism

      That’s what I’m saying. Knick fans have ptsd from Leyden and He Who Shan’t Be Named. I saw tons of out of market Knick telecasts and I wish I had a dollar for every, “The Knicks are a soft team” comment. Everyone who comes here, you’ve got multiple people on his board thinking, “what’s the catch?”. Ten years of ruin are hard to get over.

      2FOR18: Anybody else notice how close we are to having the 2nd best team in NY – if Bklyn gets Dwight?

      I’m still pretty pleased about this off season if I’m NYK. I think Tyson will hold his own against Dwight. The problem will be that Deron has a huge stiffy when he thinks about killing Lin. Still, we’ll look up and down the line up. We win at 3 and 4, them at 1 and 2, and at least we don’t have to double dwight. Then, their bench is almost certain to be thin and we have JR and Steve-oh.

      Fukit, Ima puff my chest out a little now. Break the negative thought cycle. He’s gone now…he’s gone. It’ll be alright…He That Shant Be Named is gone.

    41. At this point I’m probably pissing off the entire board and the bloggerators, but the Hornets lineup is looking like:

      PG – Vasquez/Rivers
      SG – Gordon/Rivers
      SF – Anderson/Ariza/Aminu
      PF – Davis/Anderson
      C – Whoever

      That sounds like a borderline playoff team already, with a young core and significant upside. Again, how are they not appealing to Gordon? Something tells me he really just does not like life in that part of the country and wants to get back to the west coast style of living.

    42. Robtachi:
      At this point I’m probably pissing off the entire board and the bloggerators, but the Hornets lineup is looking like:

      PG – Vasquez/Rivers
      SG – Gordon/Rivers
      SF – Anderson/Ariza/Aminu
      PF – Davis/Anderson
      C – Whoever

      That sounds like a borderline playoff team already, with a young core and significant upside. Again, how are they not appealing to Gordon?Something tells me he really just does not like life in that part of the country and wants to get back to the west coast style of living.

      I guess they could go Ariza at SF, Anderson at PF and Davis at C…
      Interesting at least.

    43. Austin Rivers is the next Adam Morrison. Only probably worse.

      Ryan Anderson is outstanding. I can’t wait to see if his shooting percentage drops off considerably without Dwight Howard on the floor with him, and how ruruland responds to the scenario in which he shoots as well as he did this year. Probably a lot of explanations instead of saying, “Ryan Anderson is good at basketball.”

    44. if he’s so outstanding, why didn’t Orlando want to pay him $9M per year?

      (not really trying to be obnoxious for once, a genuine question since that’s not a prohibitive salary even for a rebuilding team if he really is a borderline All-Star)

    45. The Honorable Cock Jowles:
      Austin Rivers is the next Adam Morrison. Only probably worse.

      Ryan Anderson is outstanding. I can’t wait to see if his shooting percentage drops off considerably without Dwight Howard on the floor with him, and how ruruland responds to the scenario in which he shoots as well as he did this year. Probably a lot of explanations instead of saying, “Ryan Anderson is good at basketball.”

      We already had a mini-experiment with that – the month of April during which DH12 was out. Anderson’s april #s were good, but not in the way you would think – he basically turned into higher volume lower efficiency player. Shot only 27.5% from 3 point range, took 2 more shots per game, and had a TS of 54 when the rest of the year he was well over 60. There were some extenuating circumstances (coming off an injury), but I think it’s naive to think that at least some of that dropoff wasn’t due to the fact that he had to work a lot harder for his shots. Small sample I guess, but ~400 minutes isn’t that small.

      But if he can replicate these numbers with Anthony Davis, then I’ll be a believer. It does say something that Sam Presti’s protege didn’t want to pay him $9M, which is basically what guys like Afflalo, Wilson Chandler, etc. got.

    46. 2FOR18: I guess they could go Ariza at SF, Anderson at PF and Davis at C…
      Interesting at least.

      Ariza or Aminu because Trevor got traded.

    47. I do not know what the future holds for Austin Rivers, but I would be surprised if he was a washout like Adam Morrison. Even if he does not have the skill set to be an NBA scorer, I think he will have the mental toughness to play strong defense and stay on the court.

    48. Frank: We already had a mini-experiment with that – the month of April during which DH12 was out.Anderson’s april #s were good, but not in the way you would think – he basically turned into higher volume lower efficiency player. Shot only 27.5% from 3 point range, took 2 more shots per game, and had a TS of 54 when the rest of the year he was well over 60. There were some extenuating circumstances (coming off an injury), but I think it’s naive to think that at least some of that dropoff wasn’t due to the fact that he had to work a lot harder for his shots. Small sample I guess, but ~400 minutes isn’t that small.

      But if he can replicate these numbers with Anthony Davis, then I’ll be a believer.It does say something that Sam Presti’s protege didn’t want to pay him $9M, which is basically what guys like Afflalo, Wilson Chandler, etc. got.

      We’re talking about a career 39% shooter. Do you really think that Dwight Howard not being on the floor could reduce his efficiency by 50%?

    49. jon abbey:
      if he’s so outstanding, why didn’t Orlando want to pay him $9M per year?

      (not really trying to be obnoxious for once, a genuine question since that’s not a prohibitive salary even for a rebuilding team if he really is a borderline All-Star)

      I have no idea. He’s an awesome shooter, never turns the ball over, and is an outstanding offensive rebounder. But you’re asking me for a rational explanation as to why they wouldn’t resign him. We know that NBA front office personnel are idiots who behave irrationally. Players get big money for high scoring totals.

      Maybe they’re looking for cap space for the next round of big name free agents? I have no idea.

    50. Eric Gordon…man, I just don’t get that guy.

      If you really want to leave New Orleans, take the qualifying offer and leave in a year. But noooo, you don’t want to risk the big contract. So you want the big contract but you don’t want to go with the team that’ll give you the big contract. That’s uncool.

      I get that he doesn’t want to play for New Orleans, but the guy really has to grow up. The Hornets just traded away two good players for the sole purpose of making sure that they could match any offer made to Gordon and he still signs with Phoenix thinking that they won’t match? Ridiculous.

    51. The thing that I don’t get about the Ryan Anderson decision from Orlando is that it appears as though they’re trying to bring in Bynum for Howard. Well, isn’t Bynum the perfect compliment to Anderson? Just like Howard, right? So I don’t get that move.

      That said, I do like Ayon a lot, as well.

    52. 39 pct shooter playing his career next to dwight, of course. For the most part. Very good offensive rebounder, yes. Defense – brutal. Nicely camouflaged next to howard, yes, and also next to davis, in time.

      But this is really an argument over the value of shot creation. THCJ sees none, therefore is perplexed.

      Others see that anderson is limited – a terrific and valuable player in his role, but there are only so many open 3s. He can’t ramp up and keep making shots without efficiency taking a dive.

      IMO 9 million is about right – he’s good, and young, but beyond that would feel pretty bloated.

      I actually think NBA GMs are dramatically smarter and better informed than they were even 3 or 4 years ago.

    53. I love how hypocritical fans are about loyalty. Do you think there’s any Chicago fans bemoaning how Chicago is dumping CJ Watson for Kirk Hinrich, despite Watson helping to carry the team when Derrick Rose was out for much of last season? Nope, it is just “Oh, hey, a slight upgrade! Awesome! See ya, CJ!”

    54. It seems pretty inevitable that Dwight Howard will be traded to the Nets.

    55. danvt: I’m still pretty pleased about this off season if I’m NYK.

      It’s the same crap every year.
      The Heat get Ray Allan.
      Lakers get Nash.
      Nets get to secure D.Will and will likely get D. Howard.
      Mavs going to get Sessions.
      Etc, etc.
      The knicks get J. Kidd and hopefully Camby.
      . . . and people on this forum and getting all giddy, overrating, over expecting until these guys get on the floor. Then it’s same old, same old.
      The knicks are going to be one and done in a league where about as many teams make the playoffs as don’t.
      Sorry for the rant. I just don’t understand how people are so upbeat about these signings. We’re the number one market in the world, and once again – This team sucks!

    56. BigBlueAL:
      It seems pretty inevitable that Dwight Howard will be traded to the Nets.

      I’m still waiting for anyone to even come up with one possible scenario that makes sense for Cleveland. They keep talking about Cleveland as the source of all the 1st round picks that would go to Orlando, but what incentive does Cleveland have to give up anything as a facilitator? Usually the facilitator GETS the picks. You have to figure the good player assets (ie. Marshon Brooks and I guess Brook Lopez if you like him) will end up going to Orlando. Howard will go to NJ, along with all the cap detritus (Hedo, Duhon, Q, whoever). So Cavs are left with Humphries? And they’re supposed to GIVE up picks also?

      The Cavs as far as I can tell are well below the cap and can probably sign Humphries without even bothering with a sign and trade. How can this possibly work out for the Cavs? Anyone?

    57. Frank: I’m still waiting for anyone to even come up with one possible scenario that makes sense for Cleveland. They keep talking about Cleveland as the source of all the 1st round picks that would go to Orlando, but what incentive does Cleveland have to give up anything as a facilitator? Usually the facilitator GETS the picks.You have to figure the good player assets (ie. Marshon Brooks and I guess Brook Lopez if you like him) will end up going to Orlando.Howard will go to NJ, along with all the cap detritus (Hedo, Duhon, Q, whoever). So Cavs are left with Humphries? And they’re supposed to GIVE up picks also?

      The Cavs as far as I can tell are well below the cap and can probably sign Humphries without even bothering with a sign and trade.How can this possibly work out for the Cavs? Anyone?

      Hollinger tweeted the same thing you just said.

    58. The more I think about it, the more it irks me that the Nets are going to be giving up essentially nothing for one of the best players in the entire NBA while the Knicks gave up the farm for Melo. Irksome!

    59. And yes, I agree that Cleveland seems hard to believe. Perhaps they’d get Brooks? He’d fit in well there. Orlando doesn’t seem as interested in players as they do picks (hence them dealing Anderson since if they’re rebuilding, he is not a guy you rebuild with) so maybe they’d be okay with not getting Brooks?

    60. This offseason has gone much better than most (especially me) anticipated. If the Knicks had not won Early Bird rights to Lin, they were looking at either (1) keeping Lin, being hardcapped, losing Novak, losing Fields, and having no flexibility to bring in anyone other than veteran’s minimum guys and having the roster limited to twelve players all season, or (2) losing Lin, losing Novak and using the MLE and BAE to bring in two players to fill holes.

      As much as I would have loved to have Nash come here, I look at that as a lottery ticket that did not cash — never expected to win. Sessions has shown himself to be extremely limited outside of the PnR — I would rather have Lin. Ray Allen may have enough in the tank for one season, but he was never coming to NY.

      Even if Howard goes to Brooklyn, I think that team is less than the sum of its parts. First, I think Howard will need time to recover from back surgery. Deron Williams and Joe Johnson have all the talent in the world, but neither has ever brought results commensurate with their reputations. And after Gerald Wallace, there will be nothing else on that team. There is no 3 point shooting and counting on a Euro import to rebound at the 4 is super-high risk.

    61. hoolahoop: It’s the same crap every year.
      The Heat get Ray Allan.
      Lakers get Nash.
      Nets get to secure D.Will and will likely get D. Howard.
      Mavs going to get Sessions.
      Etc, etc.
      The knicks get J. Kidd and hopefully Camby.
      . .. and people on this forum and getting all giddy, overrating, over expecting until these guys get on the floor. Then it’s same old, same old.
      The knicks are going to be one and done in a league where about as many teams make the playoffs as don’t.
      Sorry for the rant. I just don’t understand how people are so upbeat about these signings. We’re the number one market in the world, and once again – This team sucks!

      This team doesnt suck, far from it. The past 2 teams havent sucked either. Are they championship contenders?? Probably not. But this team is easily the best team Knick fans have had to root for since 2000 and the first one since then to have a legitimate chance at winning 50 games and possibly making some noise come playoff time.

      Admittedly my expectations for the Knicks arent championship or bust and Im fine with that. Thankfully Im a die-hard Yankee fan as well so they fulfill those expectations for me. With the Knicks Im just happy to be rooting for a pretty good team again and wrong or not thats more than enough for me.

    62. Also, “Mavs going to get Sessions”

      Seriously?

      What is that doing mixed with the other things?

      You might as well list the Bulls getting Kirk freakin’ Hinrich.

    63. Every report I’ve read concerning NO getting Anderson says he and Davis wil play alongside each other. ARE THEY SERIOUS??? ANTHONY DAVIS WILL NEVER BE A CENTER IN THIS LEAGUE!!! Unless he gets 2 inches taller and 40lbs heavier. He’s a PF and he will be outstanding as a PF so don’t mess with it. I like Anderson, but if I’m NO I don’t make that move. I would have held out for a C so Davis can develop at the position best for him. As a matter of fact, if I’m them I’m rollin the dice on Oden or makin a play for McGee. As a matter of fact..if PHX wants Gordon that bad..I’d talk them into a deal involving Gortat- hell they drafted Rivers who isn’t a PG. IMO, a S&T involving Gordon and Okafor for Wade woulda been perfect for both NO and MIA. But obviously there’s no chance for that now. Speaking of trades..do u think Grunny could convince Kupchak to do a Stat for Gasol deal? lol..I joke I joke I Kidd I Kidd..

    64. They have Jason Smith who is a decent C. Thinking maybe they go with a frontline of Anderson/Davis/Smith??

    65. Brian, I hate to replay this because I’m a big Melo fan, but I suppose if he made it clear that it was Knicks or nothing, we’d have more assets. He certainly could have said no extension except for the Knicks and clearly that would have changed our bargaining position. Sure. I’m not really sure that Dwight is doing anything different though. The reports are far from clear and Dwight seems to be all over the place. Guys, you know what—I really don’t care about the Nets and I guess I’m in the majority. If they can get a decent team in Brooklyn, well great.

      Brian Cronin:
      The more I think about it, the more it irks me that the Nets are going to be giving up essentially nothing for one of the best players in the entire NBA while the Knicks gave up the farm for Melo. Irksome!

    66. Yeah I wont overreact like everyone else will be thinking the Nets become the 2nd best team in the East. Will be interesting to see whats left on their roster once/if this trade happens.

      The one good thing is the Knicks are one of the rare teams in the league that have no problem matching up to a team lead by Dwight Howard thanks to Chandler and even more so if they land Camby. Will be some great games between the 2 teams and makes the East just as fun a conference to watch as the West (at least on the top end of the conference).

    67. hoolahoop: Sorry for the rant. I just don’t understand how people are so upbeat about these signings. We’re the number one market in the world, and once again – This team sucks!

      It’s ok big guy! He’s gone now. I.T., He Who’s Name Shan’t Be Written is not in the picture. We’re pretty good and looking to be better this year than last. We BLASTED the Celtics the last time we played them last year, we won the season series with the Pacers, the Sixers and D12 and the Magic. Maybe no one can beat the Heat, but we’ll be as close as anyone. I understand your pain, big guy. I’m a Knicks fan too, but there’s no sucking involved anymore…he’s gone…the nightmare is over.

    68. They have Jason Smith who is a decent C. Thinking maybe they go with a frontline of Anderson/Davis/Smith??

      Along with Gordon and Jack as the backcourt? That’s a pretty good team. Where is Carl Landry going?

    69. It’s mind boggling that a few months ago Billy King was seen as a blundering GM who took a massive risk giving up the farm for an unsigned D-Will, and now he may open the new arena with Howard, Johnson and Williams as a big 3. Don’t know if it’s luck or genius, but the guy pulled it off somehow.

      BTW, I have no problem with the Nets being good, but the media will completely overreact, and proclaim that the Nets are now New York’s #1 team, and that the Knicks are just an afterthought.

    70. OK. To recap one more time on the ‘Melo trade, the Knicks gave up (1) Curry (salary dump), (2) Randolph (no qualifying offer from Minnesota), (3) Ray Felton (who no one wants back in NYC), (4) Mozgov (a nice backup center), (5) Gallinari (who explicitly does not want to be a number one), and (6) Wilson Chandler — along with two number one picks that will be in the high teens or twenties. It was a steep price, but the only really strong pieces were Gallinari and Chandler — who are complimentary pieces at best and are now are paid market-rate.

      Melo wanted to get paid. He did not know what the new CBA would bring, so he wanted to get paid before the old CBA ran out. He preferred to get paid in NY, but he was not willing to hamstring Denver by refusing to consider an extension elsewhere.

      The moves I second guess are (1) taking Balkman’s salary and (2) exercising the option on Billups. The Billups move, in particular, was an unforced error. Even if the Knicks had not exercised the option, they would have held Bird Rights that would have allowed them to throw more money at Billups than anyone else, without being locked in. Walsh may have feared that Billups would have been so upset with the Knicks that he would not return if the option was not exercised, but that was a risk worth taking.

    71. BigBlueAL: This team doesnt suck, far from it.The past 2 teams havent sucked either.Are they championship contenders??Probably not.But this team is easily the best team Knick fans have had to root for since 2000 and the first one since then to have a legitimate chance at winning 50 games and possibly making some noise come playoff time.

      Admittedly my expectations for the Knicks arent championship or bust and Im fine with that.Thankfully Im a die-hard Yankee fan as well so they fulfill those expectations for me.With the Knicks Im just happy to be rooting for a pretty good team again and wrong or not thats more than enough for me.

      Well, the knicks are the team that has my heart more than any other. And, if you compare this team to horrendous teams they’ve put on the floor the last decade, yes, it’s great.
      But if you lived through the two championships and the Ewing years, it’s been a long decade of frustration.
      . . . and I don’t even want to get started on the “superstar”.

    72. d-mar:
      It’s mind boggling that a few months ago Billy King was seen as a blundering GM who took a massive risk giving up the farm for an unsigned D-Will, and now he may open the new arena with Howard, Johnson and Williams as a big 3. Don’t know if it’s luck or genius, but the guy pulled it off somehow.

      BTW, I have no problem with the Nets being good, but the media will completely overreact, and proclaim that the Nets are now New York’s #1 team, and that the Knicks are just an afterthought.

      If the Nets get Howard, they will be the #1 team in NY.
      Howard, Deron, Joe Johnson, G. Wallace. That’s a good squad. Arguably, the best center and best PG in the NBA. If they gel and can fill out their roster in a half-assed way, they can be one of the elite teams. Tickets will be hard to get, but I for one will be hoppin the 2 train to see them in action.

    73. hoolahoop: Well, the knicks are the team that has my heart more than any other. And, if you compare this team to horrendous teams they’ve put on the floor the last decade, yes, it’s great.
      But if you lived through the two championships and the Ewing years, it’s been a long decade of frustration.
      . . . and I don’t even want to get started on the “superstar”.

      I feel you, its just that saying this team sucks is not necessary lol

    74. In 2002 and 2003, when the Nets were making the Finals and the Knicks were dreck, the Nets were not New York’s #1 team. The move to Brooklyn, even if accompanied by Dwight Howard, will not make the Nets New York’s team now.

    75. ephus:
      This offseason has gone much better than most (especially me) anticipated.If the Knicks had not won Early Bird rights to Lin, they were looking at either (1) keeping Lin, being hardcapped, losing Novak, losing Fields, and having no flexibility to bring in anyone other than veteran’s minimum guys and having the roster limited to twelve players all season, or (2) losing Lin, losing Novak and using the MLE and BAE to bring in two players to fill holes.

      As much as I would have loved to have Nash come here, I look at that as a lottery ticket that did not cash — never expected to win.Sessions has shown himself to be extremely limited outside of the PnR — I would rather have Lin.Ray Allen may have enough in the tank for one season, but he was never coming to NY.

      Even if Howard goes to Brooklyn, I think that team is less than the sum of its parts.First, I think Howard will need time to recover from back surgery.Deron Williams and Joe Johnson have all the talent in the world, but neither has ever brought results commensurate with their reputations.And after Gerald Wallace, there will be nothing else on that team.There is no 3 point shooting and counting on a Euro import to rebound at the 4 is super-high risk.

      Deron and Joe Johnson are very good 3 pt shooters, and the Euro guy is supposedly very good as well.

      Orlando managed to win 59 games one year with a line-up of Jameer Nelson, Courtney Lee, Turkoglu, Rashard Lewis and Dwight.
      Compare that to Deron, Joe Johnson, Wallace, Euro Guy and Dwight. Would you rather have the Knicks’ starting line-up than that?
      Though I grant you that their bench will be horrendous if they can pull off a Dwight trade,

    76. SeeWhyDee77:
      Every report I’ve read concerning NO getting Anderson says he and Davis wil play alongside each other. ARE THEY SERIOUS??? ANTHONY DAVIS WILL NEVER BE A CENTER IN THIS LEAGUE!!! Unless he gets 2 inches taller and 40lbs heavier. He’s a PF and he will be outstanding as a PF so don’t mess with it.

      No offense, but I think your vision of the NBA is a bit outdated. Chris Bosh is the starting center on the NBA champions with a body extremely similar to Davis. Honestly who are the centers who are going to give Davis a whole bunch of trouble? Howard, Bynum and….Lopez? By far the most important thing for a center in today’s NBA is being a good help defender and Davis will be elite. Playing as a PF he’d often be too far away from the paint to have the defensive impact you’re hoping for.

    77. ephus:
      In 2002 and 2003, when the Nets were making the Finals and the Knicks were dreck, the Nets were not New York’s #1 team.The move to Brooklyn, even if accompanied by Dwight Howard, will not make the Nets New York’s team now.

      Yeah, the Knicks will always be NY’s #1 team. For one thing, millions of people walk by the Garden every weekday; they could fill that place up by accident. For another, people still worship Clyde and Willis, and that last championship was during Watergate for crying out loud.

    78. I agree, thenamestream. Also, Ryan Anderson and Davis complement each other perfectly. The knock on Anderson is his help defense, which won’t be an issue with Davis by his side. If Davis learns to be a good roll man on the pick and roll, Anderson is the perfect stretch 4 to keep his man from helping on a Davis roll.

      As a NOLA resident, I’m giddy about watching some great bball soon.

      No offense, but I think your vision of the NBA is a bit outdated. Chris Bosh is the starting center on the NBA champions with a body extremely similar to Davis. Honestly who are the centers who are going to give Davis a whole bunch of trouble? Howard, Bynum and….Lopez? By far the most important thing for a center in today’s NBA is being a good help defender and Davis will be elite. Playing as a PF he’d often be too far away from the paint to have the defensive impact you’re hoping for.

    79. Before we all jump off a cliff because of the big 3 in Brooklyn, I think the most likely scenario is that Howard does NOT end up on the Nets. I just don’t see the assets to make it work. If I’m Orlando I’d rather send him to Houston for a bunch of young guys, draft picks, and cap relief than get stuck with the Brook Lopez Marshon Brooks package. This just isn’t happening. All these leaks today, IMHO, came from Orlando, trying to get othe r teams to make their best offers.

    80. @72
      The Melo and Howard cases are completely different. Right now, the Nets have absolutely no leverage, since they have no cap space. That being the case, they’d have no ability to wait out the year and sign him for free. For that same reason, Howard has no leverage. Howard is basically asking Orlando to help him to his chosen team out of the goodness of their hearts, not caring at all about what they get for him.

      Compare this to Melo: the Knicks had the cap space to sign him for free. Having seen the Cavs lose LBJ for basically nothing, Melo didn’t want his team to meet the same fate, so he told them what his intent was, so that they could get something back for him. Denver had to send him there, out of the risk of losing Melo for nothing (considering the possibility that Melo might have been willing to wait out the CBA).

      Considering what Hollinger tweeted, I heavily doubt Howard ends up in Brooklyn. Orlando has no incentive to send him to the Nets specifically. They don’t want the Nets’ “assets,” and no team has any incentive to be the third party to help the Nets out.

      The slim possibility of Howard to Nets would become nill if another team makes an offer to Lopez (just like Toronto tried to do to us). That would prevent Lopez from being used in a sign and trade! I’m just wondering which team would have the balls and the cap room to do something like that…

    81. Actually if I’m orlando I might look at Cleveland as a primary trading partner- not that DH would ever resign there but a package of Varejao, Walton’s 6M expiring, Gibson’s $5M non guaranteed, one of Tristan Thompson or Dion Waiters, plus other filler (like 4 #1 picks) for Dwight and Hedo is better than anything NJ could ever put together.
      Kyrie plus Dwight would be quite a pairing.

    82. All this doom and gloom is sad… Fuck the nets… Our team will be markedly better next year and at worst will be a 3 or 4 seed.

      Melo and stat will have their first training camp and will be markedly improved while playing with chips on their shoulders.

      We actually have 2 PGs going into camp unlike last year when we had

      We might add two vet leaders in Kidd and camby…. So spare me with the pity party/ doom and gloom

      If you guys want to be negative that’s cool but I see nothing but upside with this team and a min of 50-53 wins this year MIN

    83. I know all the chatter makes it seem inevitable – but really, what do the Nets have to offer, for Howard? Best case is Lopez, Humphries, Brooks and a couple of late 1st-rounders. Personally, I wouldn’t take Lopez for free but they could probably flip him for one or two more late 1sts. So you basically get 5 late 1st-rounders, and Kris Humphries, while still carrying all your dead long-term salaries. ALl those picks add up to something, but they’re not getting even one average NBA starter, and not dumping ANY salary…

      All in all, seems like someone could beat that. Houston, for instance.

    84. thenamestsam: No offense, but I think your vision of the NBA is a bit outdated. Chris Bosh is the starting center on the NBA champions with a body extremely similar to Davis. Honestly who are the centers who are going to give Davis a whole bunch of trouble? Howard, Bynum and….Lopez? By far the most important thing for a center in today’s NBA is being a good help defender and Davis will be elite. Playing as a PF he’d often be too far away from the paint to have the defensive impact you’re hoping for.

      Yes..I am admittedly old school lol. But my vision on Davis as more to do with his fit than his size. He would be a dynamic 4..but an average 5. Bosh is not a 5..he just happened to start there once he came back from injury. Correct me if I’m wrong, but there were no starting centers this season who weighed less than 245 rite? Unless Camby started over Dalembert in Houston. But again..Davis’ skillset is more suited to the PF spot than the C spot. To play the 5 full time…I agree that u don’t hafta be the banger anymore..but u can’t be 6’10 222 either. And i’m not so sure that today’s 4’s would take him away from the basket as he is quick enough to cover them when they face up. I see some 4’s tryina get physical with him especially in his 1st 2 seasons..so his defense won’t be compromised as much. In any case..I’m excited to see him in the league. IMO Garnett and Duncan r arguably the best PF’s to ever play. Davis has the length and uncanny athletic ability of a Garnett blended with the no nonsense game and make up of Duncan. Not to mention he has a soft touch and above average ball handling. Defensively he is alot like Bill Russell. This kid can break the mold…

    85. seewhydee,
      Duncan was always really a center; him and Pop pretended he was a PF for All-Star and All-NBA purposes.

      Also, speaking of Garnett, he played the 5 for Boston when they made their run.

      With the exception of Hibbert, Howard, Bynum, the NBA is moving away from the back to the basket big center. Also, these types of classifications are becoming obsolete. As long as Davis can match up with the Boshes and the Garnetts, he should be fine as the “5.”

      And if NOLA plays any of the above 3, they can put in Smith.

      I’d agree that Davis has to add muscle to even be a Garnett, but, I believe, Garnett was just as skinny at that age.

    86. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/08/sports/basketball/carmelo-anthony-welcomes-addition-of-jason-kidd.html

      Like I said last month, this was the plan all along after it was apparent Lin was going to be a stud. Last year it was pick and roll ballhandling. This year it’s getting down to about 230 and becoming more of an off-ball player.

      “Expect less of that next season with the addition of Kidd, Anthony said.

      “He is a guy who can get everybody involved,” Anthony said. “I don’t have to do too much ball-handling. Right now, my mind-set is to start working off the ball a lot more.”

    87. 2FOR18: Deron and Joe Johnson are very good 3 pt shooters, and the Euro guy is supposedly very good as well.

      Orlando managed to win 59 games one year with a line-up of Jameer Nelson, Courtney Lee, Turkoglu, Rashard Lewis and Dwight.
      Compare that to Deron, Joe Johnson, Wallace, Euro Guy and Dwight. Would you rather have the Knicks’ starting line-up than that?
      Though I grant you that their bench will be horrendous if they can pull off a Dwight trade,

      That’s a hell of a team, no doubt. Knicks 5-9 would have big time advantage though

    88. Caleb:
      39 pct shooter playing his career next to dwight, of course. For the most part. Very good offensive rebounder, yes. Defense – brutal. Nicely camouflaged next to howard, yes, and also next to davis, in time.

      But this is really an argument over the value of shot creation. THCJ sees none, therefore is perplexed.

      Others see that anderson is limited – a terrific and valuable player in his role, but there are only so many open 3s. He can’t ramp up and keep making shots without efficiency taking a dive.

      IMO 9 million is about right – he’s good, and young, but beyond that would feel pretty bloated.

      I actually think NBA GMs are dramatically smarter and better informed than they were even 3 or 4 years ago.

      Of course they are. I would love to hear THCJ explain how they and their assistants spend their work hours.

    89. The Honorable Cock Jowles: We’re talking about a career 39% shooter. Do you really think that Dwight Howard not being on the floor could reduce his efficiency by 50%?

      It wouldn’t need to be reduced 50% for advanced stats to perceive him much, much differently.

    90. The Honorable Cock Jowles: We’re talking about a career 39% shooter. Do you really think that Dwight Howard not being on the floor could reduce his efficiency by 50%?

      It wouldn’t need to be reduced 50% for advanced stats to present him much, much differently.

    91. Kurt:
      seewhydee,
      Duncan was always really a center; him and Pop pretended he was a PF for All-Star and All-NBA purposes.

      Also, speaking of Garnett, he played the 5 for Boston when they made their run.

      With the exception of Hibbert, Howard, Bynum, the NBA is moving away from the back to the basket big center. Also, these types of classifications are becoming obsolete. As long as Davis can match up with the Boshes and the Garnetts, he should be fine as the “5.”

      And if NOLA plays any of the above 3, they can put in Smith.

      I’d agree that Davis has to add muscle to even be a Garnett, but, I believe, Garnett was just as skinny at that age.

      Indeed..but people forget KG started as a SF. I have no doubt Davis can check these “smallball 5’s”, but I just believe he’s better suited to be a PF with his skillset and size. The C’s list KG as 250 lbs..and MIA started Bosh at 5 towards the latter part of the playoffs and went smallball. I don’t see MIA doin that for a full season..unless they can’t get a C in the offseason. And i’m not sayin a C has to be a back to the basket player..I’m just sayin he can’t be 6’10” 222 and play there full time. Honestly, I think Hibbert and Bynum look funny in today’s NBA because the “classic bigs” don’t really exist anymore. But they r still very effective even in today’s game. Davis is a 4..it’s where he’ll be most effective with his skillset. U can be a 6’10” 222 lb C in college..but not in the pros. Also..it took KG a while before he broke 235 lbs. But he played PF most of his career and he and Davis have the same frame. As far as Duncan goes..I never compared his frame to Davis’. Duncan’s always been 6’11” 250..he problee was born that size lol. And ur rite..he never was a PF..he jus played there becuz The Admiral was there to start.

    92. ruruland: Of course they are. I would love to hear THCJ explain how they and their assistants spend their work hours.

      I’d guess that they watch tape and do a lot of paperwork.

    93. Thanks, THCJ. Garnett looks a little more “cut” but I don’t see any reason Davis can’t add the same type of lean muscle.

      Very similar build.

    94. ruruland: It wouldn’t need to be reduced 50% for advanced stats to present him much, much differently.

      Yeah, we’ll see, won’t we? I think you’re going to spend a lot of time explaining how Anthony Davis is doing the same thing for Anderson’s game that Dwight Howard’s been doing for years…

    95. The Honorable Cock Jowles: Yeah, we’ll see, won’t we? I think you’re going to spend a lot of time explaining how Anthony Davis is doing the same thing for Anderson’s game that Dwight Howard’s been doing for years…

      Yes we shall

    96. Brian Cronin:
      The thing that I don’t get about the Ryan Anderson decision from Orlando is that it appears as though they’re trying to bring in Bynum for Howard. Well, isn’t Bynum the perfect compliment to Anderson? Just like Howard, right? So I don’t get that move.

      That said, I do like Ayon a lot, as well.

      maybe there gonna go the atlanta route jeff teague n al horford

    97. Brian Cronin:
      I love how hypocritical fans are about loyalty. Do you think there’s any Chicago fans bemoaning how Chicago is dumping CJ Watson for Kirk Hinrich, despite Watson helping to carry the team when Derrick Rose was out for much of last season? Nope, it is just “Oh, hey, a slight upgrade! Awesome! See ya, CJ!”

      hinrich is a up grade ova watson. would u knock it off please!

    98. 2FOR18: Yeah, the Knicks will always be NY’s #1 team.For one thing, millions of people walk by the Garden every weekday; they could fill that place up by accident.For another, people still worship Clyde and Willis, and that last championship was during Watergate for crying out loud.

      If #1 to you is the team that can sell the most tickets, you’re probably right. But, I wouldn’t underestimate Brooklyn draw power. Seats are going to rival the prices of the knicks if the Nets do well.

      I don’t care about attendance figures. To me, the #1 team is the team that has the better record. If the Nets get Howard, they will be the #1 team in NY.

    99. ruruland:
      http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/08/sports/basketball/carmelo-anthony-welcomes-addition-of-jason-kidd.html

      Like I said last month, this was the plan all along after it was apparent Lin was going to be a stud. Last year it was pick and roll ballhandling. This year it’s getting down to about 230 and becoming more of an off-ball player.

      “Expect less of that next season with the addition of Kidd, Anthony said.

      “He is a guy who can get everybody involved,” Anthony said. “I don’t have to do too much ball-handling. Right now, my mind-set is to start working off the ball a lot more.”

      I love the quote by Melo. I’ll believe it when I see it.

    100. 2FOR18: Deron and Joe Johnson are very good 3 pt shooters, and the Euro guy is supposedly very good as well.

      Orlando managed to win 59 games one year with a line-up of Jameer Nelson, Courtney Lee, Turkoglu, Rashard Lewis and Dwight.
      Compare that to Deron, Joe Johnson, Wallace, Euro Guy and Dwight. Would you rather have the Knicks’ starting line-up than that?
      Though I grant you that their bench will be horrendous if they can pull off a Dwight trade,

      whoa really hope they dont get dwight but that billionare wallet is gonna make it happen

      hoolahoop: It’s the same crap every year.
      The Heat get Ray Allan.
      Lakers get Nash.
      Nets get to secure D.Will and will likely get D. Howard.
      Mavs going to get Sessions.
      Etc, etc.
      The knicks get J. Kidd and hopefully Camby.
      . .. and people on this forum and getting all giddy, overrating, over expecting until these guys get on the floor. Then it’s same old, same old.
      The knicks are going to be one and done in a league where about as many teams make the playoffs as don’t.
      Sorry for the rant. I just don’t understand how people are so upbeat about these signings. We’re the number one market in the world, and once again – This team sucks!

    101. ephus:
      The moves I second guess are (1) taking Balkman’s salary and (2) exercising the option on Billups.The Billups move, in particular, was an unforced error.Even if the Knicks had not exercised the option, they would have held Bird Rights that would have allowed them to throw more money at Billups than anyone else, without being locked in.Walsh may have feared that Billups would have been so upset with the Knicks that he would not return if the option was not exercised, but that was a risk worth taking.

      I don’t know why people don’t remember this, but if NY turned down the option, Billups had a $3.7M buyout that would have gone against the cap, and we wouldn’t have had enough money to get Chandler.

      http://www.examiner.com/article/knicks-decide-to-keep-billups-as-they-pick-up-option

    102. Yeah, I think they had to pick up the option.

      My problem was that they did not control the news about Chandler well enough. Once news got out that they were trying to sign Chandler, there was no way in the world that they were going to be able to trade Billups (as teams would know that they would have to amnesty him to get Chandler) and there was no way for them not to get raked over the coals in dumping Turiaf for the extra cap room that just amnestying Billups didn’t get them.

      In addition, I would have dumped Bill Walker for JR Smith instead of Balkman. It doesn’t make sense to have a guy taking up room on your cap when you don’t control his rights.

    103. By the way, looking back, Dallas likely should have just taken Billups for Chandler. Dude was only signed for one year so it wouldn’t have affected their cap room for 2012-13.

    104. Aha, as it turns out, it is in fact Brooks that the Nets are willing to trade to Cleveland along with Kris Humphries for Cleveland to help to facilitate the Howard deal. Brooks is a nice little piece and he fits the Cavaliers pretty perfectly, so if I were them, I suppose I would be willing to give up a first rounder for Brooks.

      Crap. That makes it sound like this is very likely to actually get done. Blech.

      So the Magic would be getting Lopez and a bunch of first round picks. It is a terrible deal, but I guess if you’re going to rebuild, that’s one way to do it. So if it Hump and Brooks to Cleveland, Lopez and a bunch of picks to Orlando, then I guess there’s at least room for Brooklyn to take back at least one of Orlando’s bad contracts. Possibly two (like Duhon and one of the big ones). Who would you most like to see the Nets get saddled with? I guess I’d most like to see them get saddled with Jason Richardson.

      Well, at least if Orlando is going to suck, then one of the East’s eight spots just goes from Orlando to Brooklyn, so one out and one in rather than an extra team entered into the playoff mix, ya know?

      As to the whole “Why doesn’t some team sign Brook Lopez to a MAX offer sheet?” question, I don’t believe there is any reason for Lopez to do such a thing, as part of this deal hinges on Lopez signing a MAX contract from the Nets. So if he is getting his money from the Nets anyways, why would he fuck with them by signing an offer sheet from another team? This isn’t a Landry Fields thing where he had to take the Toronto offer sheet because it was so much more than the Knicks were willing to pay him. Lopez is getting a MAX contract from the Nets as a condition to the Dwight Howard trade.

      I really don’t get why Howard is so keen on playing for the Nets. Boy, will it irk me to see him playing for the Nets.

    105. Dont worry Brian, it will be fun when the Knicks beat them during the season and the Nets dont even wind up being as good as any of Dwight Howard’s best Magic teams :-)

    106. That’d sure be nice, but boy, Howard never had a teammate as good as D-Will in Orlando, ya know? And heck, Joe Johnson might even be as good as his best Orlando teammate. And one of those Orlando teams went to the NBA Finals!!

    107. I might have to root for the longshot of the NBA investigating the Nets for the whole “Oh, never mind, Mirza Teletovic is giving up $2 million a year for no reason! We’re not secretly paying him under the table! No sir! That wouldn’t be allowed!” thing.

    108. Here’s another thing that is weird – why does everyone hate Kris Humphries? Dude averaged 15.8p/12.6r/1.5b per 40 last year with a reasonable TS (54%) and is at least ok on defense otherwise. Doesn’t complain, enforces the paint. How does this guy not even get an offer? Because if someone offers to him and he takes it, this whole ridiculous trade never happens.

      Just strange – last year he had to settle for a 1 year deal? He’s clearly not as good a defender as Oakley was, but I definitely see some of Oakley’s game in him. Is it just the Kardashian thing?

      And meanwhile, I still think Orlando is making a huge mistake if they sign off on this deal. First, that team will never see the light of day for the next 3-4 years if they do this, since they will be trading DH12 for bunch of crap to a team in their own, increasingly stacked conference. Second, Brook Lopez and a bunch of crappy #1s? That’s the best you can get for Dwight Howard?

      Seriously, Prokhorov must have put dead horses’ heads in all these guys’ beds if this thing goes through. Or Daniel Gilbert really WILL do anything to make sure Lebron doesn’t get any more rings.

      So if this does go through, who is left on the Nets? Those 4+Teletovic and who else? Trouble is, players will probably be falling over themselves to take the vet’s min on that team.

    109. Ahh… the voice of reason again – Hahn saying on his twitter feed that he thinks this might all be a leverage play by Orlando. It HAS to be- this is just too crappy.

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