Knicks Morning News (Saturday, Sep 08 2012)

  • [New York Times] For Nets Players, Play in Brooklyn, Practice in New Jersey, Live In … (Sat, 08 Sep 2012 06:00:23 GMT)

    For reasons both practical and personal, the Brooklyn Nets will practice in New Jersey and will not be living in Brooklyn, at least for their inaugural season.

  • [New York Times] Knicks’ Ronnie Brewer Out for Six Weeks (Sat, 08 Sep 2012 05:30:08 GMT)

    Ronnie Brewer, the Knicks’ likely starter at shooting guard, will be out for six weeks after undergoing arthroscopic knee surgery.

  • [New York Times] All-American Red Heads Get Their Do in Basketball Hall of Fame (Sat, 08 Sep 2012 04:11:10 GMT)

    The Red Heads were one of the nation’s first professional women’s teams, barnstorming small towns across the United States starting in 1936.

  • [New York Times] 12 in ’12: Miller, Nellie 10 More Enter Hoops Hall (Sat, 08 Sep 2012 03:20:05 GMT)

    Reggie Miller wasn’t always the biggest name in his own family. On Friday night, he was the top star in the biggest basketball Hall of Fame class in half a century.

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    Mike Kurylo

    Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

    33 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (Saturday, Sep 08 2012)”

    1. This is a lovely thing to wake up to via the Post:

      “Knicks owner James Dolan staged a business meeting with Isiah Thomas yesterday morning at the Mandarin Hotel in Midtown, according to a person familiar with the situation.

      A band of security men surrounded the two men who were both dressed in business suits in a quiet corner of the lobby. Thomas has lobbied to return to the organization since he was fired as the Florida International basketball coach last spring. The meeting took place two days after the resignation of MSG sports president Scott O’Neil, who, according to a source, helped convince Dolan rehiring Thomas wasn’t a good move for the Knicks brand.”

    2. Why does James Dolan have to put us through this all the time? I honestly think he and Isiah have a secret love affair. I hope this news forces Dolan to sell the team.

    3. lmao….im not even shocked, he has a serious man crush on zeke

      massive:
      Why does James Dolan have to put us through this all the time? I honestly think he and Isiah have a secret love affair. I hope this news forces Dolan to sell the team.

    4. Ugh, he’s baaaack. Thomas has to have some seriously compromising photos of Dolan, there’s no other explanation.

    5. If Isiah comes back, I’m going to move to Denver. I will be done with the Knicks permanently. Y’all can start praying now.

    6. The Honorable Cock Jowles: If Isiah comes back, I’m going to move to Denver. I will be done with the Knicks permanently. Y’all can start praying now.

      By next year, we will have traded Shump and Brewer and any remaining draft picks for Jamal Crawford and John Wall, and Chandler straight up for DeMarcus Cousins. Come on, THCJ, you couldn’t root for a starting lineup of Melo, Amare, Cousins, Crawford and Wall?

    7. John Wall isn’t so bad. I’d be a lot more excited about this team if he was our starting PG and not Felton.

    8. ess-dog:
      This is a lovely thing to wake up to via the Post:

      “Knicks owner James Dolan staged a business meeting with Isiah Thomas yesterday morning at the Mandarin Hotel in Midtown, according to a person familiar with the situation.

      A band of security men surrounded the two men who were both dressed in business suits in a quiet corner of the lobby. Thomas has lobbied to return to the organization since he was fired as the Florida International basketball coach last spring. The meeting took place two days after the resignation of MSG sports president Scott O’Neil, who, according to a source, helped convince Dolan rehiring Thomas wasn’t a good move for the Knicks brand.”

      He he. When are you guys ever gonna learn?

    9. The Honorable Cock Jowles:
      If Isiah comes back, I’m going to move to Denver. I will be done with the Knicks permanently. Y’all can start praying now.

      You need to move to Denver to become a fan? You’re already a much bigger Nuggets fan than Knicks fan.

    10. Funny that the guy with his palm grafted to Carmelo Anthony’s metaphoric phallus is talking to me about being a team’s fan. I’ve been going to the Garden since ’95. I even saw them get beat by the Pistons circa ’08 when both teams were truly bad. When did you start following the team?

      Also, just because I think the Denver organization has done a fantastic job in putting together a top-flight team without high lottery picks doesn’t mean I’m not a Knicks fan. I just hate James Dolan and everything he does.

    11. why u so mad all the time bro

      The Honorable Cock Jowles:
      Funny that the guy with his palm grafted to Carmelo Anthony’s metaphoric phallus is talking to me about being a team’s fan. I’ve been going to the Garden since ’95. I even saw them get beat by the Pistons circa ’08 when both teams were truly bad. When did you start following the team?

      Also, just because I think the Denver organization has done a fantastic job in putting together a top-flight team without high lottery picks doesn’t mean I’m not a Knicks fan. I just hate James Dolan and everything he does.

      The Honorable Cock Jowles:
      Funny that the guy with his palm grafted to Carmelo Anthony’s metaphoric phallus is talking to me about being a team’s fan. I’ve been going to the Garden since ’95. I even saw them get beat by the Pistons circa ’08 when both teams were truly bad. When did you start following the team?

      Also, just because I think the Denver organization has done a fantastic job in putting together a top-flight team without high lottery picks doesn’t mean I’m not a Knicks fan. I just hate James Dolan and everything he does.

    12. The Honorable Cock Jowles:
      Funny that the guy with his palm grafted to Carmelo Anthony’s metaphoric phallus is talking to me about being a team’s fan. I’ve been going to the Garden since ’95. I even saw them get beat by the Pistons circa ’08 when both teams were truly bad. When did you start following the team?

      Also, just because I think the Denver organization has done a fantastic job in putting together a top-flight team without high lottery picks doesn’t mean I’m not a Knicks fan. I just hate James Dolan and everything he does.

      So, were Knicks fans supposed to quiver at the thought of losing you, the most faithful follower of all?

      I just don’t understand why you need to think of yourself as a Knicks fan. Your threat of jumping ship to Denver is meaningless because you are by every definition a fan of the Nuggets and a “hater” of the Knicks.

      Maybe you were a Knicks fan at one time, though I don’t understand why because even the best teams had plenty of overpaid for underproducing players via WS/WP.

      They’ve sucked for decades really. And why would you even be a fan of the Knicks in their heyday? The organization has never been guided by the Berri principles (apparently).

      You should hate the Knicks — not the current version — you should hate the KNICKS.

    13. No. Knickerblogger readers should start praying that Isiah returns so I stop inundating the board with talk about how Carmelo’s not very efficient, Amar’e’s washed up, etc. There were two ways of interpreting my comment. You picked the wrong one.

      Are you saying that plenty of teams were able to turn $124,000,000 into 23 wins, a la 2006? James Dolan is the worst owner in the NBA. There is no comparison, not even the Kings’ ownership.

      You are a fan of a player. Your talk about team allegiance means nothing to me. And shit, maybe I’m not a Knicks fan. Maybe you’re right. But maybe I don’t give a damn because I love the game of basketball, and I watch the team that’s broadcast in my area. What are you going to do, banish me from the site? Just wait it out. Carmelo will be dealt in the 2013-14 season, and you won’t have to deal with me and my WP nonsense.

    14. Also, about that “pace” comment re: Felton:

      ruruland:

      Consider most of these numbers are not adjusted for pace. Most of the teams he’s led have played slow. Most of the players who rank ahead of him have played in faster offenses.

      2005-06 3rd
      2006-07 13th
      2007-08 14th
      2008-09 27th
      2009-10 26th
      2010-11 3rd (Knicks)
      2010-11 2nd (Nuggets)
      2011-12 15th

      What’s your definition of “most of the teams he’s played for?” Because it looks like you just straight up made that shit up. But yeah, dude, I trust your basketball eye-test expertise.

    15. That’s pace numbers for his teams, by the way, and to be clear, he led the ‘Cats in MP during his rookie year. So yeah.

    16. ruruland: Yep bad shots. But making those kind of shots at 41% takes special talent. That’s a very difficult shot for a reason. You just want to take the vast majority of them out of your offense if you can– IF YOU CAN– and the Knicks can.

      Fair enough, if JR Smith HAS to take that shot, he isn’t terrible at it, but it’s still hovers around league average which is ~39%. His FG% turned out higher than I thought; indeed, my perception of his ability at shooting the long 2 is totally colored by my frustration at seeing how often he does it. He did have an esp poor shooting season last year; I expect him to play better this year.

      Btw, the guard who takes the cake when it comes to taking the long 2 (16-23 ft) and being awful at it is John Wall:

      4.4 attempts per game, 29.0 FG%, 83.3% unassisted.

      Both his FG% and the unassisted rate are atrocious.

    17. The Honorable Cock Jowles:
      Maybe you’re right. But maybe I don’t give a damn because I love the game of basketball, and I watch the team that’s broadcast in my area.

      I don’t really believe in the concept of “true fandom” and I also think people should root however the hell they want.

      but the above doesn’t hold water in 2012 in the NBA, since you can see pretty much any team you want dozens of times (thank you NBA-TV fan choice game Tuesdays), and with League Pass, you can watch every game by any team.

    18. I will say this: if ruruland hated Melo instead of loving him, I would guess that his analytical cherry-picking would be very different, while THCJ is pretty consistent with how he goes about evaluating players, even if he uses a very controversial set of metrics. That said, both are equally prone to reckless hyperbole.

      All in all, it usually makes for good reading, so keep going at it, boys. We still have a month to kill before the balls start bouncing.

    19. The Honorable Cock Jowles:

      Are you saying that plenty of teams were able to turn $124,000,000 into 23 wins, a la 2006? James Dolan is the worst owner in the NBA. There is no comparison, not even the Kings’ ownership.

      James Dolan is a horrible owner and no one here is trying to acquit him of all his malfeasance. i.e. Isiah. And I’m no one to judge who is or isn’t a fan, and if I come across as having done that, then shame on me.

      I respect your posts when they come from from an analytical , neutral place, not when, as they so often are, desperate attempts at trolling and sophistry aimed at inciting the emotions of people who believe, and rightfully so, that this Knicks team can be very good.

      BTW, I have you down for the following predictions. Knicks will win 48 games next season and lose in the first round. Carmelo will have a true shooting percentage of .53 or lower and he will be dealt within two years. Let me know if I missed any.

      For someone who took great pride in predicting the Knicks underachievement last year (though most of the inputs were far different than you predicted), expect all of your projections to be used against you in the future.

      Just wait it out.

    20. I cant wait for the Knicks to start training camp so I can get my mind off of the Yankees. Its 1992 all over again.

    21. The Honorable Cock Jowles:
      Also, about that “pace” comment re: Felton:

      2005-06 3rd
      2006-07 13th
      2007-08 14th
      2008-09 27th
      2009-10 26th
      2010-11 3rd (Knicks)
      2010-11 2nd (Nuggets)
      2011-12 15th

      What’s your definition of “most of the teams he’s played for?” Because it looks like you just straight up made that shit up. But yeah, dude, I trust your basketball eye-test expertise.

      Charlotte was a slow team. Portland was middle of the pack. Only two years of his career did he play on teams that were in the top ten in pace.

      Two of the four teams he played on played fast, but in five of his seven years he played on teams that were 13th or lower in pace.

      If teams are defined as the players your surrounded with in the same uniform, then my statement is literally correct.

      The point was that his assist ranking is already impressive, but it’s even more impressive when pace is factored in. For example, of the 12 players in the NBA who had higher ap48 last year, 7 of them played on faster teams, three of the other five were named Rajon Rondo, Deron Williams and Chris Paul.

      Your quibble with this issue does nothing to address the substance of the post, which is that Raymond Felton is one of the best passers in the entire NBA.

    22. Felton has two serious flaws: he is a mediocre shooter and finisher, and he shoots too much. He is competent to very good at every other aspect of the game. He is also young enough to learn from Kidd and even Prigioni. Maybe he gets exposed in the playoffs, but I think he is going to have a very good regular season.

    23. Felton has two serious flaws: he is a mediocre shooter and finisher, and he shoots too much. He is competent to very good at every other aspect of the game. He is also young enough to learn from Kidd and even Prigioni. Maybe he gets exposed in the playoffs, but I think he is going to have a very good regular season.

      I disagree on the young enough to learn from Kidd part (I am not saying that no point guard changed his stripes in his 8th year, but it is pretty damn rare), but I do believe that his biggest flaws should be the easiest thing in the world to minimize – just don’t let him shoot as much as he wants to.

      If Felton can keep his game to mostly passing and taking kick out threes, he should be a fine point guard this year. And I have to believe he knows that that has to be his role on the team, but you never know with some of these guys. At the end of the game, there are two players and two players only that I want taking the outside shot – Melo and Novak, and I fear that Felton thinks he should be on that short list, as well. But if he looks off Melo to take a big shot at the end of the game, I presume Melo will explain to him the folly of that action. So I really do have faith that Felton can learn to shoot less.

    24. Z-man:
      Felton has two serious flaws: he is a mediocre shooter and finisher, and he shoots too much. He is competent to very good at every other aspect of the game. He is also young enough to learn from Kidd and even Prigioni. Maybe he gets exposed in the playoffs, but I think he is going to have a very good regular season.

      Felton will be lucky to score more than 12ppg. If Melo & Amare are playing 36 minutes a night on a consistent basis Ray isn’t going to scoring a lot & Melo/Woodson will make sure he gets it. He will be a 3rd offensive option, kind of how Lin was in that 7 game stretch under Woodson.

    25. Brian Cronin: I disagree on the young enough to learn from Kidd part (I am not saying that no point guard changed his stripes in his 8th year, but it is pretty damn rare), but I do believe that his biggest flaws should be the easiest thing in the world to minimize – just don’t let him shoot as much as he wants to. If Felton can keep his game to mostly passing and taking kick out threes, he should be a fine point guard this year. And I have to believe he knows that that has to be his role on the team, but you never know with some of these guys. At the end of the game, there are two players and two players only that I want taking the outside shot – Melo and Novak, and I fear that Felton thinks he should be on that short list, as well. But if he looks off Melo to take a big shot at the end of the game, I presume Melo will explain to him the folly of that action. So I really do have faith that Felton can learn to shoot less.

      It sounds like we essentially agree that the things that Felton needs to “learn” from Kidd are about decision-making rather than very fundamental PG skills (as with, say, TD). However, he can also learn little things from the master, like how to run the break more efficiently, how to position himself on D, etc.

      Interestingly, looking at their career stats through their first 7 years, they played nearly the same amount and Felton had slightly better shooting stats by all metrics (TS%, eFG%, FG%, FT% and 3PT%). The differences that jumped out were that Kidd was a much better rebounder and averaged nearly 2 assists per 36 than Felton. It seems that Kidd became a much more consistent (but not great) 3-pt shooter after age 30. In that sense, he could be a really good role model for Felton.

    26. ruruland: Charlotte was a slow team. Portland was middle of the pack. Only two years of his career did he play on teams that were in the top ten in pace.

      Two of the four teams he played on played fast, but in five of his seven years he played on teams that were 13th or lower in pace.

      You really belong in PR if you’re not there already. I just showed you that his teams were NOT, in fact, slow. Two of them were, but the rest were average pace or better, with three of them being high paced. Note that I was not the one to say that he played on “slow” teams; that was you. I showed you hard evidence that you were wrong, but you consider “five of his seven years he played on teams that were 13th or lower in pace” as if 13th is “slow.” You’re a spin artist, man. Raymond Felton is not a good PG.

    27. I agree with THCJ in this case that pace is not really the issue for Felton. And looking at his cumulative stats, he does not measure up well in some important areas. But the questions for me are: 1) Is Felton as good as we could have gotten for $4mill a year and what we gave up to get him? 2) Is Felton a good fit for this team, all things including salary cap considered? and 3) Does he have upside (i.e. can he play as well as he did during his first stint with the Knicks until D’Antoni burned him out), considering that this team presents probably the opportunity for success than he has ever had?

      It is certainly “reasonable” and “defensible” to say that he is not a good PG, but 1) he may not have to be anything more than “adequate” vs. “good,” 2) the main thing keeping him from being “good” is his shooting too many bad shots and not being a strong rebounder for his position; the first is correctable, the second is irrelevant. He is a top-10 passer, which really isn’t debatable. He can run the P&R and has two of the premier P&R weapons in the league on his team. He is an above average on-the-ball defender.

    28. It sounds like we essentially agree that the things that Felton needs to “learn” from Kidd are about decision-making rather than very fundamental PG skills (as with, say, TD). However, he can also learn little things from the master, like how to run the break more efficiently, how to position himself on D, etc.

      Interestingly, looking at their career stats through their first 7 years, they played nearly the same amount and Felton had slightly better shooting stats by all metrics (TS%, eFG%, FG%, FT% and 3PT%). The differences that jumped out were that Kidd was a much better rebounder and averaged nearly 2 assists per 36 than Felton. It seems that Kidd became a much more consistent (but not great) 3-pt shooter after age 30. In that sense, he could be a really good role model for Felton.

      In all seriousness, there was a glitch. I had edited my comment because when I thought about it, I did agree that he could likely learn how to shoot less from Kidd so I took that part out but I got a server error when I posted my edit. I’ve had it happen before and it still made the edit (it just didn’t show up right away) so I just assumed that it had been edited, so when I logged in today and saw my original post still there I was like, “D’oh!” because, yes, we are in agreement.

    29. The Honorable Cock Jowles: You really belong in PR if you’re not there already. I just showed you that his teams were NOT, in fact, slow. Two of them were, but the rest were average pace or better, with three of them being high paced. Note that I was not the one to say that he played on “slow” teams; that was you. I showed you hard evidence that you were wrong, but you consider “five of his seven years he played on teams that were 13th or lower in pace” as if 13th is “slow.” You’re a spin artist, man. Raymond Felton is not a good PG.

      Is Raymond Felton a good passer or not?

    30. Z-man:
      I agree with THCJ in this case that pace is not really the issue for Felton. And looking at his cumulative stats, he does not measure up well in some important areas.But the questions for me are: 1) Is Felton as good as we could have gotten for $4mill a year and what we gave up to get him? 2) Is Felton a good fit for this team, all things including salary cap considered? and 3) Does he have upside (i.e. can he play as well as he did during his first stint with the Knicks until D’Antoni burned him out), considering that this team presents probably the opportunity for success than he has ever had?

      It is certainly “reasonable” and “defensible” to say that he is not a good PG, but 1) he may not have to be anything more than “adequate” vs. “good,” 2) the main thing keeping him from being “good” is his shooting too many bad shots and not being a strong rebounder for his position; the first is correctable, the second is irrelevant. He is a top-10 passer, which really isn’t debatable. He can run the P&R and has two of the premier P&R weapons in the league on his team. He is an above average on-the-ball defender.

      This. He fits. Reduce his proportion of off-dribble shots because of less pressure to score, increase his opportunities in catch-and-shoot where he’s adequate, and the stats will turn his way.

      But all of that is less important than the congruency of his skills with this team.

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