Knicks Morning News (Monday, Mar 05 2012)

  • [New York Daily News] Harvard’s Lin, Knicks outclassed in Boston (Mon, 05 Mar 2012 07:12:24 GMT)

    The Celtics were hoping to show these newly reconstituted Knicks what winning in the NBA is all about. You knew it was going to come down to how the stars would align for both teams in the end.

  • [New York Daily News] Melo agonizes over foul finish (Mon, 05 Mar 2012 05:48:31 GMT)

    The final few seconds of the first half were just as agonizing for Carmelo Anthony as the final few seconds of regulation.

  • [New York Daily News] Rondo takes Lin to school in Celtics’ OT win (Mon, 05 Mar 2012 03:00:06 GMT)

    There was never anyone quite like Rajon Rondo in the Ivy League when Jeremy Lin played at Harvard. Boston All-Star point guard Rajon Rondo records a triple double in the Celtics’ 115-111 overtime win over the Knicks.

  • [New York Times] Celtics 115, Knicks 111, OT: Celtics Top Knicks to Spoil Harvard Grad Lin’s Return to Boston (Mon, 05 Mar 2012 06:09:07 GMT)

    Jeremy Lin scored 14 points, but he made just 6 of 16 shots, turned the ball over six times and was suffocated for most of the afternoon by an aggressive Celtics defense.

  • [New York Times] N.B.A. Roundup: Williams Scores Team-Record 57 in Nets Win (Mon, 05 Mar 2012 06:20:17 GMT)

    Deron Williams scored a franchise-record 57 points to lift the visiting Nets to a 104-101 victory over the Charlotte Bobcats on Sunday night.

  • [New York Times] Celtics’ Rondo Has Memorable Triple-Double (Mon, 05 Mar 2012 06:20:08 GMT)

    With his triple-double of 18 points, 17 rebounds and 20 assists against the Knicks, Rajon Rondo became the first player since Magic Johnson in 1989 to produce at least 17 in each category.

  • [New York Times] Williams Scores Nets-Record 57 in Win Over Bobcats (Mon, 05 Mar 2012 09:20:45 GMT)

    Deron Williams really wanted to make his tee time Monday morning in Miami.

  • [New York Times] Lawson Leads Short-Handed Nuggets Over Spurs (Mon, 05 Mar 2012 06:23:26 GMT)

    Forget who the banged-up Denver Nuggets are missing. Never mind Manu Ginobili returning to the San Antonio Spurs.

  • [New York Times] Record-Breaking Williams Bags 57 Points in Nets Victory (Mon, 05 Mar 2012 04:21:27 GMT)

    Deron Williams put on a storming second half display to record an NBA-season leading 57 points and guide the New Jersey Nets to a 104-101 road victory over the Charlotte Bobcats on Sunday.

  • [New York Times] Nash, Suns Beat Kings for 3rd Straight Victory (Mon, 05 Mar 2012 03:47:32 GMT)

    Steve Nash had 19 points, Marcin Gortat scored 14 and matched his season high with 17 rebounds, and the Phoenix Suns won their third in a row with a 96-88 victory over the Sacramento Kings on Sunday night.

  • [New York Times] Paul Has 28 as Clippers Top Rockets 105-103 in OT (Mon, 05 Mar 2012 04:38:30 GMT)

    Chris Paul had 28 points and 10 assists, Blake Griffin added 14 points and 11 rebounds and the Los Angeles Clippers beat the Houston Rockets 105-103 in overtime Sunday night.

  • [New York Times] Rose Scores 35 as Bulls Hold Off 76ers 96-91 (Mon, 05 Mar 2012 03:02:26 GMT)

    Derrick Rose tied a season high with 35 points, and Joakim Noah had 11 points and 18 rebounds to lead the Chicago Bulls to their sixth straight win, 96-91 over the Philadelphia 76ers on Sunday night.

  • [New York Times] Lakers Profit From Masked Man Kobe Having Nose Out of Joint (Mon, 05 Mar 2012 02:24:50 GMT)

    Wearing a protective mask to shield his fractured nose, Kobe Bryant has carried the look of a movie villain but has performed like a hero since returning from the All Star Game.

  • [New York Times] Williams Scores 57 as Nets Dump Bobcats 104-101 (Mon, 05 Mar 2012 02:53:29 GMT)

    Deron Williams scored a franchise-record 57 points to lift the New Jersey Nets to a 104-101 victory over the Charlotte Bobcats on Sunday night.

  • [New York Times] DeRozan Scores 25 Points as Raptors Beat Warriors (Mon, 05 Mar 2012 01:35:55 GMT)

    DeMar DeRozan scored 25 points, James Johnson had 12 points and 12 rebounds and the Toronto Raptors beat Golden State 83-75 on Sunday, snapping a five-game losing streak against the Warriors.

  • [New York Times] Bryant Fires Lakers to Win Over Heat (Mon, 05 Mar 2012 03:18:30 GMT)

    Kobe Bryant exacted revenge for his broken nose with a game-high 33 points as the Los Angeles Lakers beat Miami Heat 93-83 in an emotion-charged victory at the Staples Center Sunday.

  • [New York Times] Off the Dribble: A Guard Emerges: Sound Familiar? (Mon, 05 Mar 2012 01:46:34 GMT)

    Isaiah Thomas, the last player chosen in the 2011 draft, has thrived in a starting role for the Kings.

  • [New York Times] Keeping Score: James and the Heat Put Failure Behind Them (Mon, 05 Mar 2012 03:43:02 GMT)

    The Heat have managed to put the disappointment of last June behind them and have emerged as the clear favorite heading into the second half of the abbreviated 2011-12 season.

  • [New York Times] Off the Dribble: Mapping the N.B.A. (Mon, 05 Mar 2012 03:46:45 GMT)

    Kirk Goldsberry, a visiting scholar on geography at Harvard, set out to answer who was the best shooter in the N.B.A., a quality that traditional metrics like shooting percentage do not fully address.

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    Mike Kurylo

    Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

    138 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (Monday, Mar 05 2012)”

    1. Lots of talk on the airwaves and elsewhere about why we didn’t foul before Pierce’s shot. As much as every play-by-play guy brings it up every single time a team is up by 3, most teams just let it play out, so D’Antoni’s not alone. I tend to side with the majority, why foul and extend the game further, or risk the player flinging his arms up and getting a 3 shot foul? It’s easy in hindsight after Pierce hits a prayer (which even Doc Rivers called lucky) to say we should have fouled, but it’s not like we gave up an open look, he just hit a crazy shot.

    2. The fouling up 3 debate rages on, but I think it clearly is a matter of clock and situation. I tend to side with the proponents of fouling up 3, but again it is contextual the decision. I definitely would have fouled given the parameters of yesterday´s conclusion: Boston was WITHOUT timeouts, meaning if you foul them at best (barring something outrageous like a steal) they would still have to race down length of court and throw up a heave to tie or win the game with less around 5 seconds to go…I would have fouled pierce as soon as he came off screen, meaning with around 7-8 seconds left.

    3. Btw, D´antoni has been burned many a time by his resistence to fouling up 3: in particular I recall a playoff game in which San Antonio was down 3 (think it was game 1 of a first round series) at home with a few seconds left. Instead of fouling D´antoni played it out and Tim Duncan hit a 3 to force overtime, at which point San Antonio went on to win the game and take the series easily…I believe that was his last season as coach of Phoenix.

    4. You can find a million excuses for this squad. Melo this, Lin that.
      Fields this or Shump that.
      But there is one thing separating this team from being the most dominant team in the nba:
      Turnovers.
      The Knicks average 5.2 passing turnovers and 5.3 ball-handling turnovers a game.
      Add in 2 offensive fouls per game and you get to a ridiculous number of turnovers.
      I haven’t the time to find out how many points that has turned into, but it’s a lot.

      Now the Knicks force a lot of opponent turnovers, more by quite a bit, but nonetheless, if they get their passing and ball handling under control, last night’s game isn’t even close and Pierce’s three would have made it a 15 point game rather than a tie.

      It’s the turnovers, stupid.

    5. Been thanking about this a lot. Why didn’t we at least pressure the ball and not let them roll it up the court and basically give up the advantage of not having a timeout? Why didn’t we have Jeffries in the game on Pierce? And I believe we should have fouled Rondo as soon as he had the ball. The fact that they had no TOs was a huge advantage that MDA did not lose strategically. Time and again we question his end of game strategy. Really still seething after that game. The shot by Pierce was not in any way a miracle shot. It was an on the line 3 with a smaller defender on him.

    6. I’m pretty discouraged off last night’s game. A lot of people harping on the refs, and it was a horribly reffed game, but I think the awful calls mostly evened out in the end (for the Celtics there were the two bad goaltending calls, a blatant foul by Shumpert on KG and numerous times when Rondo got hit going to the hole).
      Also a lot of people playing the “Oh, we made a lot of mistakes, left a lot of plays on the floor” card as though somehow our team is going to magically just stop making turnovers and missing shots. In every game both teams leave plays on the floor, that’s part of the game. Boston left just as many as we did. Rondo missed about six layups, KG couldn’t hit an open jumper the whole first half, Ray Allen was quiet, and they made plenty of dumb turnovers.
      And the last thing bothering me is the number of people acting like this Boston team is a strong team in the wake of that defeat as a way to excuse it. That team is TERRIBLE. They’re barely .500 and they’ve played the most home games in the league. Hollinger has them 19th in the league in his power rankings. They don’t have a single bench player who would crack our rotation. That was a bad, bad loss.
      The two main culprits for me are Amare and Dantoni. Amare for obvious reasons, but there’s nothing we can really do about it except hope that he can find his groove. Jeffries and Novak deserve his minutes, but you have to let him play and hope he can find something, there just isn’t any other choice.
      Dantoni had a bad game in terms of controlling the mood of the team and the flow of the game. With Doc, you can see that every time the Celtics get away from what they’re supposed to be doing he refocuses them, settles them back down and they get back to their game. With the Knicks it just kept spiraling out of control. Dantoni would call a timeout after about three consecutive TOs off trying to make a flashy lob in transition and first play out of the timeout they’d do the same thing. So…

    7. I remember reading on Truehoop at some point that the stats indicate you should always foul when up 3 at the end of the game. D’antoni is pretty consistent in not doing that though. It’s annoying, but it should only cost us 1 game every couple years that this actually happens.

    8. yep, I’d be a lot more confident in this team being able to put it together and do some damage if I believed in the coach more.

    9. New Guy:
      I think it’s too late.

      Lol

      It’s hard to believe that Jordan will be on the side that will pay more money in a trade.

      And both players are just awful. In negative territory awful.

      Diaw WS: -0.018
      Diop WS: -0.028

    10. New Guy:
      I think it’s too late.

      I have a bad feeling that you may be right. An uninsurable max contract is a huge risk that (reportedly) no other team was willing to offer when he was a free agent. With the way he’s playing right now what team would take that risk?

      I think that trade is the right idea if they’re going to explore it. You’re not going to get anything valuable for him, so if you can get some junk that’s expiring sooner that might be a pretty big win at this point. The question is whether it’s worth doing that kind of trade, or whether it’s worth just hanging onto him. If you do that and he doesn’t come around, he’s going to actually become untradeable but on the other hand, Amare rediscovering his game represents (in my opinion) the Knicks only real chance to contend for a championship in the next couple years.

      It’s really a shame that bad long-term planning led to squandering the amnesty on Chauncey. The opportunity to amnesty Amare if he continues to struggle would really set this team up with a great chance to contend for a championship in the next few years.

    11. I think we’ll see in the next 2-3 weeks whether or not Amare is really done playing the way he used to play. Hopefully this is just a matter of the back not totally being healthy, not enough playing during the offseason, adjustments to the new team etc. If not — Amare will HAVE to learn to play a new game. That means pick-and-pop rather than pick-and-roll, and a post game. And more than anything – rebounding and spending his offseason not on “ball handling” like he said he spent last offseason, but on learning good defensive principles, body position, etc. That’s the only way he doesn’t become a total albatross.

      There is no way anyone is trading for him unless it’s literally for 10c worth of talent and an equally crappy contract on Amare’s dollar.

    12. KnicksFanInVA:
      Is it too early to come up with trade ideas for Amare?
      http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7yfplo5

      If you’re going to dump Amare’s salary, you have to do it this summer, because $5 of the $9 million we’d save in that deal would immediately go towards paying Lin. If you could cut the whole $19 million this summer, you’d have I think around $8 million in cap space after re-signing Lin.

      I would have no problem dumping Stoudemire’s salary in that situation as I think simply giving his minutes to Harrellson and maybe playing Anthony at the 4 a bit would make this team a lot better.

      Personally, I’d look at Orlando as a trade partner. Otis Smith has a track record of desperate moves. If he decides to keep Howard until the end of the season, he might be willing to take a flyer on Stoudemire. This way, Howard has a fellow “star” and if Howard leaves, Orlando still has a “good team”. (italics on the quotation marks).

      A straight up salary dump could look something like this: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7h7cq5o

    13. cgreene: Why didn’t we at least pressure the ball and not let them roll it up the court a

      I was watching in a bar and screamed out, “Make him pick up the ball!”
      Bad coaching. Low IQ basketball.

    14. It’s just scary as hell that this is only Year 2 of Amare’s mega contract, and we’re seriously contemplating that we need to get rid of him in a salary dump. He has brought a lot of this on himself though. He doesn’t even put an effort to close out on D. He made Brandon Bass look like Dirk yesterday.

      I doubt it’s his back or due to the lockout. It’s just his game, and it’s deteriorated sharply. We’re way better with Jeffries out there on the floor, and that speaks volumes.

    15. Dantoni rant:
      Little by little I’ve lost my faith in Dantoni. He’s not the coach I thought he was.
      Trade Dantoni for Doc Rivers, knicks win that game. The knicks have a lot more talent than Boston.

      How do you let Rondo roll the ball up the floor, up by three, with 18 seconds left? Make him pick up the ball and start the clock.
      Why didn’t the knicks foul with ten seconds left?
      Whenever you have possession with 35 seconds left in the quarter you should shoot quick to get, two for one possessions, and keep the last possession.
      Lots of small stuff give your team the edge. That’s the coaches job.
      Also, I don’t think he mentally prepares and focuses this team as well as he should.

    16. If you want to get on D’Antoni about anything, why was Melo on the floor with 6 seconds left in the 1st half after a timeout? He then picks up his 3rd foul with 1 second left, picks up his 4th early in the 3rd quarter and has to sit for most of it as Boston builds a big lead. This is one of those “attention to detail” things that I think is a legitimate beef against the coach.

    17. d-mar:
      If you want to get on D’Antoni about anything, why was Melo on the floor with 6 seconds left in the 1st half after a timeout? He then picks up his 3rd foul with 1 second left, picks up his 4th early in the 3rd quarter and has to sit for most of it as Boston builds a big lead. This is one of those “attention to detail” things that I think is a legitimate beef against the coach.

      Yeah, but that was a stupid foul by Melo too…

      Why the hell did he foul Rondo in the 3 point line with one second left?

    18. hoolahoop: I was watching in a bar and screamed out, “Make him pick up the ball!”
      Bad coaching. Low IQ basketball.

      Not the reason why the Knicks lost the game.

      1. Chandler did make a move towards getting Rondo to pick up the ball, but when Rondo feinted as if he was about to, Chandler (wisely) backed off. You do not want to pick up Rondo 60′ from the basket with 18 seconds on the clock.

      2. The time that Rondo saved actually benefitted the Knicks, who had almost 6 seconds left to try to hit the game-winner at the end of regulation. If Rondo picks up the ball earlier, Pierce still gets the shot off, but the ball goes through the hoop with less time on the clock. If a team has at least 8 seconds, it can run a play and get off a quality shot.

      3. The better question is why the Knicks did not double Pierce when he received the ball. Double off of Rondo, who is no threat to hit a 3 pointer. If he gets the ball underneath for a lay-up, the Knicks are still up 1 with 9 seconds left. Just have to hit your foul shots to win.

    19. “I think we’ll see in the next 2-3 weeks whether or not Amare is really done playing the way he used to play.”

      I am the last guy to talk about synergies and I know I have said this before, but Melo and Amare are very very duplicative talents.

      While generally I don’t believe in diminishing returns being more than a small factor in basketball, this pairing seems to be one of those cases. It just doesn’t make sense to have two guys out there whose major talent is being the primary shot-taker….

    20. d-mar:
      If you want to get on D’Antoni about anything, why was Melo on the floor with 6 seconds left in the 1st half after a timeout? He then picks up his 3rd foul with 1 second left, picks up his 4th early in the 3rd quarter and has to sit for most of it as Boston builds a big lead. This is one of those “attention to detail” things that I think is a legitimate beef against the coach.

      Agreed. That’s what I’m talking about.

    21. ephus: Not the reason why the Knicks lost the game.

      How do you know? It’s impossible to predict what would have happened. One thing we do know is something different would have happened.

      ephus:

      1.Chandler did make a move towards getting Rondo to pick up the ball, but when Rondo feinted as if he was about to, Chandler (wisely) backed off.You do not want to pick up Rondo 60? from the basket with 18 seconds on the clock.

      Not Chandlers job.

      ephus:

      2.The time that Rondo saved actually benefitted the Knicks, who had almost 6 seconds left to try to hit the game-winner at the end of regulation.If Rondo picks up the ball earlier, Pierce still gets the shot off, but the ball goes through the hoop with less time on the clock.If a team has at least 8 seconds, it can run a play and get off a quality shot.

      That it gave the knicks more time is backwards, revisionist thinking. Plus, Pierce may not have got the shot off. It would have been a different shot. Once you change one action (making him pick up the ball) everything afterwards changes.

    22. Owen:
      “I think we’ll see in the next 2-3 weeks whether or not Amare is really done playing the way he used to play.”

      I am the last guy to talk about synergies and I know I have said this before, but Melo and Amare are very very duplicative talents.

      While generally I don’t believe in diminishing returns being more than a small factor in basketball, this pairing seems to be one of those cases. It just doesn’t make sense to have two guys out there whose major talent is being the primary shot-taker….

      I still believe Amare can be very effective. He’s got to start knocking down the mid-range jumper. And he’s still a threat moving to the hoop without the ball.
      Amare’s been rebounding well and blocking shots, though the matedor defense is a problem.

    23. not to derail things but speaking of synergies the Off the Dribble blog up above links to Sloan Conference stuff. Real interesting there is several years of data on shooting from almost every area of the court broken up into 1′ squares. Unfortunately the way they presented it wa smotre about who shoots from the largest # of locations and who is a >1 point per possession in the greatest # of area. The answers are Kobe and Nash FWIW. You could do so much with that data even coming up with a +/- type of rating like Dewan has for fielding in baseball as a start.

    24. I also believe that if Amare gets his game back he’ll emerge as the true team leader.

    25. Not to be debbie downer, but I have a sinking feeling about this road trip now after yesterday´s brutal loss…I was counting on them pulling out that game to go at least 4-3 on this 7-game stretch (from the cleveland until the Chicago game), which I would deem acceptable…now that could be pretty difficult…they could slowly start to fall back below .500 really fast….ever since the 7-game win streak they have alternated win-loss-win-loss and so on, never able to get above .500 so far.

      Losing yesterday really makes tomorrow´s game a critical one, but Dallas will be extra up for us (like Celtics yesterday) to avenge the Linsanity from a few weeks ago at the Garden, then they play San Antonio the second night of a back-to-back, and they have not won a game IN SA since the 2002-2003 season…then they play Milwaukee which always seems to own us…then Philly at home and @ Chicago…amazingly, I actually think the Philly game sets up as our most favorable matchup during this stretch.

      On the plus side, Boston has a brutal (road) schedule of 8 straight coming up against stiff competition, and Philly has been struggling of late and has a bunch of somewhat difficult encounters the next week or two as well….hopefully Atlanta starts to drop.

    26. the Milwaukee game is the big one, Philly would be nice too. I’d take 2-3 with those two wins and hardfought losses in the other three, I guess.

    27. This is what Marc Berman reported in the NY Post:
      The Knicks’ locker room was surprisingly jovial afterward, with loud voices and lots of joking.
      “Games like that are fun,’’ Anthony said. “It’s more exciting and more of a thrill if we won the game.

      To me, that’s appalling. If I owned this team:
      1 – I’d be working the phones today to replace Dantoni tomorrow.
      2- Melo would be in my office crying after I got through with him. He gets paid $300,000/game to win games, not have fun losing.

      This was a statement game yesterday. It was a heart breaking loss for all of here. . . . And these guys are whooping it up in the locker room?????? Do you think that would happen in Boston? Would Kobe he having a fun time after a loss like this? No f’ckn way!

    28. jon abbey:
      the Milwaukee game is the big one, Philly would be nice too. I’d take 2-3 with those two wins and hardfought losses in the other three, I guess.

      Philly is a must win if this team has serious intentions of making a run in the playoffs.
      Over the break, the knicks players were talking about being able to win a championship this season. If that’s the case, they need to win games like yesterday, Milwaukee, Philly, etc

    29. The knicks need to win the division. If not, it’s going to be excuses, excuses and more excuses.

    30. hoolahoop: This is what Marc Berman reported in the NY Post:The Knicks’ locker room was surprisingly jovial afterward, with loud voices and lots of joking.“Games like that are fun,’’ Anthony said. “It’s more exciting and more of a thrill if we won the game.To me, that’s appalling. If I owned this team:1 – I’d be working the phones today to replace Dantoni tomorrow.2- Melo would be in my office crying after I got through with him. He gets paid $300,000/game to win games, not have fun losing.This was a statement game yesterday. It was a heart breaking loss for all of here. . . . And these guys are whooping it up in the locker room?????? Do you think that would happen in Boston? Would Kobe he having a fun time after a loss like this? No f’ckn way!

      I would agree with you except the source of the information is outrageously unreliable. But yeah a loss like that should leave you pissed.

    31. If this is really a championship-calibre team (which I don´t think it is), I don´t see why they shouldn´t be able to go 4-3 on this stretch of 7 games (W-Dallas, L-San Antonio, W-Milwaukee, W-Philly, L-Chicago)…

      …that is what I would LIKE to see…what I actually think will happen is 3-4 (the difference being a Loss tomorrow night rather than a win), with a decent chance for 2-5 (loss in Milwaukee as well).

    32. hoolahoop:
      This is what Marc Berman reported in the NY Post:
      The Knicks’ locker room was surprisingly jovial afterward, with loud voices and lots of joking.
      “Games like that are fun,’’ Anthony said. “It’s more exciting and more of a thrill if we won the game.

      To me, that’s appalling. If I owned this team:
      1 – I’d be working the phones today to replace Dantoni tomorrow.
      2- Melo would be in my office crying after I got through with him. He gets paid $300,000/game to win games, not have fun losing.

      This was a statement game yesterday. It was a heart breaking loss for all of here.. . . And these guys are whooping it up in the locker room?????? Do you think that would happen in Boston? Would Kobe he having a fun time after a loss like this? No f’ckn way!

      I actually don’t have a real problem with it- if you don’t compete and get blown out and are laughing afterwards that’s a big problem but I’d rather have them heading into Dallas in a positive frame of mind rather than beating themselves up about an overtime loss. And from the stuff they said afterwards- Melo’s comments about his foul at the end of the second, Amar’e talking about careless turnovers and the failure to close out first half well- it’s pretty clear that’s what D’A was talking about in the locker room after the game. Nobody looked too happy in the interview clips I saw after the game and they certainly played the game as if they cared about winning and that’s the most important thing.

    33. I think the importance of in-game strategy is a bit overrated, but D’Antoni’s was spectacularly bad yesterday, as Hollinger points out pretty neatly (dissing the Celtics, too!)
      http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/PERDiem-120305/new-york-knicks-vs-boston-celtics

      @28 If Amare’s resurgence depends on his making more jump shots, it’s toast. When your game is down to making or missing 15-foot jumpers you’re in a new phase, where mediocrity is the ceiling.

      That said, I am not as down on Amare’s long-term future as most people. A reversal from the usual!

      Bad: he’s already 29 which is the wrong side of the hill, he had a pretty noticeable decline last year (dropping 5 points of TS% and continuing his rebounding slide) and of course he’s been bad this year.

      But!: 29 isn’t 32… he doesn’t have a major injury.. his rebounding has actually rebounded, even playing next to Tyson Chandler.. and there are other potential explanations for his crappy play. For example, he said he went 6 or 7 months without playing, rehabbing from his back injury. That puts a guy way, way behind and it’s hard to catch up on a compressed schedule like this. It’s going to be an uphill grind this season but I won’t be surprised if he plays well by the end, and has a bit of a comeback next season.

      I know he’s past his peak and is always going to be a little fragile, but it’s too early to say he’s done or ready for the scrap heap.

      Also, isn’t it amazing that people have mentioned him as having the worst contract in the league? It wasn’t long ago the NBA was full of Marburys, Francises, Currys, Olowakandis, Jamisons, Juwan Howards, Arenases, Lewis’ etc. Teams have cleaned up the awful contracts pretty well, even before the wave of amnesties. I’d have to think about who has a worse one now, but even the way he’s playing now he’s not the contractual disaster any of those guys were.

    34. The next 7 games are tough, but that’s how it’s gonna be. Knicks have played the easiest schedule int he league so far (.449 winning percentage), plus 20 of 37 at home. You have to make that up on the back end!

      I think they’ll be ok, but if they go 1-6 or 0-7 (not impossible!) than we definitely have to worry just about making the tourney.

      Of course I shouldn’t worry; as RuRuland said we are so awesome there’s no doubt whatsoever we will cruise through the next 30 games into the playoffs, and wrestle with miami for the title.

    35. I was watching the game yesterday and thinking about the press reports that the second unit was doing so well in practice that it was beating the first unit. It occurred to me that maybe that was more a reflection of the poor performance of the first team as much As a tribute to the capability of the second team. Any comments?

    36. Good point on the contracts, Caleb. Off the top of my head, I’d have to think Joe Johnson’s is the worst.

    37. New Guy:
      Good point on the contracts, Caleb.Off the top of my head, I’d have to think Joe Johnson’s is the worst.

      It’s hard to argue that Amare is worth $20MM the way he’s playing right now, but NOBODY on this board was talking about his contract last year when he put up seven 30 point games in a row and the “MVP” chants were raining down on him at MSG. I agree with Caleb that there’s still hope for the guy, although honestly I was hoping after the All Star break he’d come out gangbusters.

    38. To me, looking at the next 8 games, status quo would be either 3-5 or 4-4, basically maintaining our status as a playoff contender and nothing more. If we really want to believe that we’re something more than that, that we can contend with Miami and Chicago this year, we HAVE to take a step forward. That means not just getting losses on the road against good teams, but starting to pull out some of those games while still holding serve at home.

      It’s a tough stretch, but at the same time, it’s more of the middle of the pack teams then the true elite. Chicago is a true title contender, and the Spurs and Mavs aren’t too far from that group. Those are tough games, but Philly at home, Indiana at home, Portland at home, Milwaukee and Indiana on the road, those are tough games, but those are games that true contenders win more times than not. To me the goal should be 5-3. 1-2 in the really tough games, and 4-1 in the medium games. After those games (which takes us through the next two weeks) we should have a very good idea of where the team stands. From that point it’s only a month until the playoffs. The excuses basically have to end. If this team is going to be a contender the time is now. I’m excited to see it play out.

    39. @39 / Caleb

      think you could give a quick summary of Hollingers points for the non insiders among us?

    40. Basically he compared and contrasted the lessons learned at the recent Sloane analytics conference (where much was made of advances in assigning probabilities to outcomes and applying these to oncourt strategies) to what decisions are actually made by players and coaches: in other words, we know certain strategies are fruitful when employed in certain situations, but time and again coaches don´t heed the advice culled from advanced metrics and stat-based data crunching.

      He used examples from the NYK-BOS game to showcase the errors in judgment made by D´antoni/Rivers:

      1) Basically it was a no-brainer to foul under the circumstances at end of Q4 since Boston had ZERO timeouts remaining and particularly when Rondo had the ball.

      2) NYK dropped the ball by not fouling in OT down 5 with 30+ ticks left even though it didn´t hurt them in the end.

      3) NYK should not have called timeout after Melo rebounded a Boston miss while up 1 (this gave boston a chance to steal the ball on inbounds, which they didn´t take advantage, as Garnett could have trapped Novak at midcourt but instead fouled him immediately)…didn´t come back to hurt NYK but could have.

      4) Was dumb move to leave Melo on court in waning seconds of Q2 with a bunch of other defensive players inserted in for final play…melo is not defensive player and leaving him in risked his picking up another (3rd) foul, which he did.

    41. Although he claimed he didn´t mean to pick on the Knicks AND Celtics, in his piece Hollinger really only singled out the Knicks (D´antoni) for coaching gaffes in the game that flew in the face of what advanced stats would tell us is the proper coaching move.

    42. The Heat are quaking in their boots.

      Seriously though, if it weren’t for that Bogut injury, things would look much much different vis a vis even making the playoffs.

      By my count, 18 or our last 29 games are against teams better than us? Is that right?

      The 7 games we play against Atlanta, Orlando, and Indiana are going to be big. Let’s hope the Pacers record to date is a mirage….

    43. D-Mar – I can’t believe I was saying anything other than that Amare was massively overpaid since the moment he signed the contract.

      And I strongly agree about Johnson’s contract. That was the worst, most inexplicable contract I have seen in the NBA in a while.

    44. @39
      Unless his diet consists of nothing but white sugar, white bread, french fries and gummy bears, at 29 he should be in the peak of his career.
      He needs his jumper to work to bring defenders close to him. Then, he can burn them outside or inside.
      Amare blames it on the off season layoff, but at this point he should be back in peak shape.
      I just don’t see how a guy that’s not injured can get old at 29. . . which means he may have a bad back.
      . . . and bad backs heal, too.

    45. “4) Was dumb move to leave Melo on court in waning seconds of Q2 with a bunch of other defensive players inserted in for final play…melo is not defensive player and leaving him in risked his picking up another (3rd) foul, which he did.”

      As always happens, Melo managed to play the rest of the way only getting one foul.

      I know somebody did a study showing it hurts a players defense to be in foul trouble. But it still seems crazy to preserve a player for the last minutes of the game rather than maximizing his time on the court….

    46. art vandelay:
      Basically he compared and contrasted the lessons learned at the recent Sloane analytics conference (where much was made of advances in assigning probabilities to outcomes and applying these to oncourt strategies) to what decisions are actually made by players and coaches: in other words, we know certain strategies are fruitful when employed in certain situations, but time and again coaches don´t heed the advice culled from advanced metrics and stat-based data crunching.

      He used examples from the NYK-BOS game to showcase the errors in judgment made by D´antoni/Rivers:

      1) Basically it was a no-brainer to foul under the circumstances at end of Q4 since Boston had ZERO timeouts remaining and particularly when Rondo had the ball.

      2) NYK dropped the ball by not fouling in OT down 5 with 30+ ticks left even though it didn´t hurt them in the end.

      3) NYK should not have called timeout after Melo rebounded a Boston miss while up 1 (this gave boston a chance to steal the ball on inbounds, which they didn´t take advantage, as Garnett could have trapped Novak at midcourt but instead fouled him immediately)…didn´t come back to hurt NYK but could have.

      4) Was dumb move to leave Melo on court in waning seconds of Q2 with a bunch of other defensive players inserted in for final play…melo is not defensive player and leaving him in risked his picking up another (3rd) foul, which he did.

      The players win and lose the games, but the coach is responsible for game management.
      I wonder, does Dantoni even acknowledge his errors? If not, that speaks volumes.

    47. Owen:
      “4) Was dumb move to leave Melo on court in waning seconds of Q2 with a bunch of other defensive players inserted in for final play…melo is not defensive player and leaving him in risked his picking up another (3rd) foul, which he did.”

      As always happens, Melo managed to play the rest of the way only getting one foul.

      I know somebody did a study showing it hurts a players defense to be in foul trouble. But it still seems crazy to preserve a player for the last minutes of the game rather than maximizing his time on the court….

      Plus Dantoni leaves starters in at the end of games that should be garbage time. Give them a rest and let the subs get some run.
      I don’t know what he’s thinking sometimes. I wonder if he’s really thinking at all?

    48. This Howard thing is going to be reeeeeally interesting, since there seems to be so few teams out there that have the necessary pieces to acquire him. He might very well make it to free agency.

    49. I think a trade is more likely than Orlando allowing DH12 to go to free agency, since Orlando would still be close to the cap for two years if Howard leaves.

      Just to put in a marker, here is my thought on how Chicago and Orlando might put a deal together: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=74cbtfk

      Orlando gets Deng and Noah. Chicago gets Howard, Duhon and Richardson. This gets Orlando out from under Duhon’s awful contract and Richardson’s bad contract.

    50. hoolahoop:
      @39
      Unless his diet consists of nothing but white sugar, white bread, french fries and gummy bears, at 29 he should be in the peak of his career….I just don’t see how a guy that’s not injured can get old at 29. . .

      By any measure you want, players peak in their mid-20s somewhere… I’ve seen “24′ mentioned.. which seems on the young side but I don’t know. Doesn’t mean you’re toast when you’re 29, or that it’s a straight line down, or that no one bucks the trend, but it’s pretty clear the vast majority are starting to slip by 29.

      Yeah, Joe Johnson is the easy champ. In 2015-2016 when he’s about to turn 35 he’ll be pulling in just shy of $25 million. In historical terms, it’s basically the Allan Houston story. Good not great team pays twice the market rate to give a $100 million-plus deal to a 30-ish shooting guard who is tight with ownership.

      Distant second I might say Ben Gordon… some controversial picks would be Rudy Gay, DeAndre Jordan and even our old pal David Lee. When you think about it, Amare kind of fits right in. Of course there’s a lot of lower level waste, like Marcus Thornton making $35 million the next four years. But the books around the league are a lot, lot cleaner than they were just a few years ago. good for the league, and fans.

      If you’re more worried about short-term waste than a long-term cap clog, Rashard Lewis makes more than $23 million next year, and Elton Brand will get $18.7. million.

    51. Orlando is in a tough spot – they don’t sound like they even want to move him, but if they let him walk, they won’t have nearly enough to max out a free agent replacement.

      I don’t think the Lopez injury will (or should) make a big difference. A move like this is for the long-term – they’re not going to care what happens in the next three months.

      That said, Noah/Deng would be a lot better than Lopez/anyone, IMO. This is where Howard can steer it – Chicago might make a better offer but if Howard won’t extend there, Orlando’s hand is forced.

      of course Melo alone would be a competitive offer. In the public mind, it would be the best offer, hands-down.

    52. ephus:
      I think a trade is more likely than Orlando allowing DH12 to go to free agency, since Orlando would still be close to the cap for two years if Howard leaves.

      Just to put in a marker, here is my thought on how Chicago and Orlando might put a deal together:http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=74cbtfk

      Orlando gets Deng and Noah.Chicago gets Howard, Duhon and Richardson.This gets Orlando out from under Duhon’s awful contract and Richardson’s bad contract.

      That’s not even close to enough value for Orlando. I think it’s much more likely it looks like this:
      http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=87e5s6u

      Basically – DH12 + Duhon + Turk for Deng, Noah, Taj Gibson, and Ronnie Brewer, + charlotte’s 1st round pick. There’s no way Orlando bites for just Deng and Noah without getting rid of Turk’s contract and getting picks.

    53. Frank:
      There’s no way Orlando bites for just Deng and Noah without getting rid of Turk’s contract and getting picks.

      They may not have a choice.

    54. ephus:
      I think a trade is more likely than Orlando allowing DH12 to go to free agency, since Orlando would still be close to the cap for two years if Howard leaves.

      Just to put in a marker, here is my thought on how Chicago and Orlando might put a deal together:http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=74cbtfk

      Orlando gets Deng and Noah.Chicago gets Howard, Duhon and Richardson.This gets Orlando out from under Duhon’s awful contract and Richardson’s bad contract.

      Deng is pretty overpaid himself at 13 next year and 14 the year after. He’s an excellent wing defender but mediocre offensively. Noah is an excellent value though he’s one of those guys who goes from great to invisible a little too often for my taste. It’s still a better deal than anything they could possibly get from NJ. Do the Bulls do it? They have the best record in the league and great team chemistry but with Brewer and Korver taking Deng’s minutes they’re not losing that much there and Howard is a no-brainer over Noah so you’d have to think they’d make that deal.

    55. If we are in agreement that Orlando will deal Howard this year, the Knicks simply have to inquire. I mean, come on, people, we’re talking the second best player in the whole NBA here!

    56. Caleb: They may not have a choice.

      Exactly, they’re not going to get fair value. Basically Chicago only has to offer something better than Orlando’s second best option. Right now, from what we’ve heard, Deng and Noah is basically the best they’ve been offered. The question becomes is that better than a 20% chance (or whatever Orlando thinks it is) that he resigns. My wager is that unless the offers increase Orlando stays put. I’d rather have a 20% chance at Dwight going forward than a 100% chance at Noah and Deng, but a lot of that is going to depend on how likely they actually think Howard is to stay, and there’s no way for any of us to judge that.
      If they got Frank’s offer though I think they have to do that. They’d still be a playoff team in the east, and they’d have a lot of assets and a great cast of supporting players. They’d have to find a way to add a star into that mix to become a true contender again, but it’s probably the best they can hope for. As for Chicago, it hurts to make that trade because you’ve built up so much chemistry and depth and now you’re going back to square one essentially, but you have to do it to set up the Rose Howard combo. I’m not sure they’d have the depth or cohesion to win it all this year, but once you put a couple pieces around those guys that’s a core as good as any in the league.

    57. You’d have to assume the Knicks would do everything short of including Lin in a deal for Howard (because of marketing purposes more than basketball reasons) and that Orlando would not allow Amar’e to be included.

      In the past, the Knicks have been leveraged more in exchange for less.

    58. Brian Cronin:
      If we are in agreement that Orlando will deal Howard this year, the Knicks simply have to inquire. I mean, come on, people, we’re talking the second best player in the whole NBA here!

      I agree that you have to inquire, but do the fans and the organization really have the taste for completely reconfiguring the whole team again? Unless you can get Howard for Tyson+some other nice pieces you’re presumably sending them Melo. In that case you have to trade Tyson somewhere else in exchange for a few pieces (another swingman would make sense as the main piece probably), and you’re basically talking about an entirely new team. I think it might improve the long-term prospects but the thought of trying to take another step back to go forward almost exhausts me.

    59. Caleb: I don’t think the Lopez injury will (or should) make a big difference. A move like this is for the long-term – they’re not going to care what happens in the next three months.

      Given the fact that Orlando never got a healthy Grant Hill, I do not think they will have much of an appetite for trading for an injured Brook Lopez. The Nets were trying to showcase Lopez as healthy, so that they could make this trade.

      Loathing: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7aycfmv

      You don’t suppose Billy King would go for this would you?

      No way. That would mean that King had given up on trading for DH12 — since they need those pieces to make Howard and Hedo’s salaries work.

    60. I was presuming the offer would be Melo/Chandler for Howard/Hedu, but I suppose it would be interesting to see if you could just do it as Melo for Howard alone (as Melo just by himself is better than Noah/Deng) and then deal Chandler for someone else (heck, you could even theoretically wait until the summer to deal Chandler in that scenario).

      There are very few players in the NBA as good as Dwight Howard. Likely just one. If the guy is going to be dealt, and it sounds like he is, you have to do whatever it takes to get him. I mean, for crying out loud, if Chicago, who is a much better team than the Knicks, is considering blowing up their squad for Howard, why in the world would the Knicks not be trying the same thing?

    61. all the latest news I’ve seen is that Howard isn’t being dealt and they’ll try to convince him to stay in the offseason, presumably unsuccessfully.

      I’m assuming we’re going to see a 4th super team next year in DAL, built around Howard/Dirk/D-Will, and that will be a helluva rivalry with OKC for the next few years.

    62. I don’t believe much in players “owing” their team anything, but if that is the case, then I think Howard owes the Magic at least enough to let them know before the trade deadline if they have a realistic chance of re-signing him. Just stringing them along if you don’t intend to re-sign with them is kind of messed up.

    63. Brian Cronin:
      I was presuming the offer would be Melo/Chandler for Howard/Hedu, but I suppose it would be interesting to see if you could just do it as Melo for Howard alone (as Melo just by himself is better than Noah/Deng) and then deal Chandler for someone else (heck, you could even theoretically wait until the summer to deal Chandler in that scenario).

      There are very few players in the NBA as good as Dwight Howard. Likely just one. If the guy is going to be dealt, and it sounds like he is, you have to do whatever it takes to get him. I mean, for crying out loud, if Chicago, who is a much better team than the Knicks, is considering blowing up their squad for Howard, why in the world would the Knicks not be trying the same thing?

      I really think Melo alone would probably get it done. For all the problems some people on this board has with Melo in the league at large he’s perceived as on the same tier as Howard. What other team can beat an offer of Melo straight up (from a perceived value standpoint, since that’s what matters)? Any ideas what teams might want Chandler/have the right pieces? Houston maybe for something like Scola/Budinger?

    64. Brian Cronin: If we are in agreement that Orlando will deal Howard this year, the Knicks simply have to inquire. I mean, come on, people, we’re talking the second best player in the whole NBA here!

      I hope the knicks don’t try to get him. TC Is not an MVP but I really like his game – and I love the current knicks roster.

      I don’t like the idea of packing a team with superstars like Miami. I’d much rather root for a team that’s well balanced and wins by playing with great chemistry and energy.

    65. Melo doesn’t want to go to Orlando, and Orlando probably doesn’t want another guy who doesn’t want to play there.

    66. Yeah, he wouldn’t have a whole ton of leeway. What’s he going to do, sit out three seasons? That said, if they then want to deal him, they can do that, as well. They would have more suitors for Melo with three years left on his deal than for a free agent to be like Howard.

    67. TC Is not an MVP but I really like his game

      I love Chandler. Looooove him. But when you have a shot at the second-best player in the game, you have to give up great players. Again, I am not looking for them to make a trade for the sake of making a trade or to dump anyone. This is just because there is a rare opportunity here to acquire one of the very best players in the entire NBA. If they can get him, they should.

    68. Caleb:
      @73 He’s signed through 2015 so doesn’t matter much what he wants!

      That’s not really the issue, my friend. Every time a player gets moved his value depreciates.

      I’m sure Melo would pick himself up at some point if he were moved, but to what end?

      Why would Orlando want to trade for a player who ostensibly already said there are 4-5 places he’d want to go last year, and moreover, why would Melo want to stay in Orlando post-Dwight?

      Melo could demand to get moved. If you’re looking at a rebuilding situation, your cornerstone guy may not be buying into it. These are the years Melo has to start getting deep into the playoffs.

      There’s a good chance you’re not going to get the fully committed Melo. Why would a team want to make a 5-year max contract investment for a guy who isn’t fully committed to the program?

      Makes no sense. Look, I know it’s hard for front-running Knicks fans to deal with, but this team isn’t making any moves until the off-season.

    69. Any deal for Howard should include Chandler, unless the Knicks can afford to have a 14 million dollar player as their back up center. Neither Howard, nor Chandler can play the power forward position. Playing them together for long stretches is bad.

      Chandler plus Amare would be the best case scenario for the Knicks. True, Stat is not at his best; but a combo with Chandler is attractive and competitive option for the Magic. Including Melo would be unwise. Melo is the Knicks best player, prolific scorer, and a first class closer. Knicks now have enough talent; they are not dying to trade their players. But the Magic surely want to trade Howard and Turk.

    70. Chandler plus Amare would be the best case scenario for the Knicks.

      Yeah, clearly. But there’s no way they’d ever take STAT. In addition, STAT/Chandler might not be a better offer than Noah/Deng, when you factor in STAT’s contract.

      But yeah, I agree that at the end of the day, it would probably end up as a Chandler/Melo for Howard/Hedu deal, if it ever actually went down.

    71. ROUGH:
      Any deal for Howard should include Chandler, unless the Knicks can afford to have a 14 million dollar player as their back up center. Neither Howard, nor Chandler can play the power forward position. Playing them together for long stretches is bad.

      Chandler plus Amare would be the best case scenario for the Knicks. True, Stat is not at his best; but a combo with Chandler is attractive and competitive option for the Magic. Including Melo would be unwise. Melo is the Knicks best player, prolific scorer, and a first class closer. Knicks now have enough talent; they are not dying to trade their players. But the Magic surely want to trade Howard and Turk.

      I also believe that by trading Chandler and Melo a year or less after signing or trading for them, makes NY a much less appealing destination.

      Who’s to say, in terms of Howard and other players perspective, that if they can’t win a championship yesterday that he starts to feel uneasy.

      What about prospective free agents?

    72. Brian Cronin: Yeah, clearly. But there’s no way they’d ever take STAT. In addition, STAT/Chandler might not be a better offer than Noah/Deng, when you factor in STAT’s contract.

      Can you make a case that Deng/Noah is at least comparable in terms of overall production to Dwight, to say nothing of the net effects to team chemistry.

    73. Brian Cronin: Yeah, clearly. But there’s no way they’d ever take STAT. In addition, STAT/Chandler might not be a better offer than Noah/Deng, when you factor in STAT’s contract.

      I disagree, Brian. Chandler is by far better than Noah. And STAT, despite his present condition and contract situation, is still a superstar. He may not be what he was in previous years, but he is still expected to improve down the road. Now, I’am not saying that the Knicks are the frontrunners. But I agree with you they should quietly inquire. Throwing in an extra piece, e.g. Fields, would make an even stronger case.

    74. Brian Cronin: Yeah, clearly. But there’s no way they’d ever take STAT. In addition, STAT/Chandler might not be a better offer than Noah/Deng, when you factor in STAT’s contract.

      But yeah, I agree that at the end of the day, it would probably end up as a Chandler/Melo for Howard/Hedu deal, if it ever actually went down.

      To me, it’s sort of the Yankees fantasy team complex that starts to bleed in to the perspective of Knicks fans.

    75. ROUGH: I disagree, Brian. Chandler is by far better than Noah. And STAT, despite his present condition and contract situation, is still a superstar. He may not be what he was in previous years, but he is still expected to improve down the road. Now, I’am not saying that the Knicks are the frontrunners. But I agree with you they should quietly inquire. Throwing in an extra piece, e.g. Fields, would make an even stronger case.

      It’s already been reported that Orlando doesn’t want Stat. So, in all likelihood you’re lloking at the a 3-team deal in which Melo and Chandler are shipped out, and the Knicks, in return, get Orlando’s team with a player that is completely ill-fitting for MDA’s system.

      If you’re planning to build around Howard, then implicitly you’re firing your coach. Howard is not a pick and roll player, which means you’re taking away Lin’s best asset. Howard is a dominant post player you surround with shooters, which the Knicks don’t have. A champsionship-caliber Howard team also has a player that creates his own shot and can playmake with strict offensive structure.

      So, when you trade for Howard, you’re really talking about a complete rebuild. Anything less would be a case of diminishing marginal returns.

    76. ruruland: It’s already been reported that Orlando doesn’t want Stat. So, in all likelihood you’re lloking at the a 3-team deal in which Melo and Chandler are shipped out, and the Knicks, in return, get Orlando’s team with a player that is completely ill-fitting for MDA’s system.

      If you’re planning to build around Howard, then implicitly you’re firing your coach. Howard is not a pick and roll player, which means you’re taking away Lin’s best asset. Howard is a dominant post player you surround with shooters, which the Knicks don’t have.A champsionship-caliber Howard team also has a player that creates his own shot and can playmake with strict offensive structure.

      So, when you trade for Howard, you’re really talking about a complete rebuild. Anything less would be a case of diminishing marginal returns.

      I think this should not become a ‘rebuilding’ case, and I do think it’s a bad bad bad idea to trade Melo at this point. Further, Howard can post, AND play PNR, why not? Further, MDA’s future with the Knicks is uncertain, to say the least, unless another miracle happens (next to the one that within two weeks transformed the Knicks to a team with so much depth!!!) and the Knicks make it to the conference finals or something.

      Now, if the Magic want something else, then be it. But their position is not so good as they risk losing Howard for nothing. They have to make a choice, and I still believe that NYK can offer a competitive package.

    77. ROUGH: I think this should become a ‘rebuilding’ case, and I do think it’s a bad bad bad idea to trade Melo at this point. Further, Howard can post, AND play PNR, why not? Further, MDA’s future with the Knicks is uncertain, to say the least, unless another miracle happens (next to the one that within two weeks transformed the Knicks to a team with so much depth!!!) and the Knicks make it to the conference finals or something.

      Now, if the Magic want something else, then be it. But their position is not so good as they risk losing Howard for nothing. They have to make a choice, and I still believe that NYK can offer a competitive package.

      Uh, see this is the problem I have: “Why Not?”

      This is the video-game fantasyland stuff.

      Howard’s modus operandi,what he’s spent thousands of hours improving, is his footwork in the post. That’s where he generates almost immeasurable amounts of value, both in his efficiency in his scoring, but moreso in his ability to create shooting windows on the perimeter.

      The Knicks, as currently constituted, sans Chandler and Melo, aren’t built to accommodate Dwight’s greatest strength.

      If you can’t move Amar’es contract in the deal, there is a much greater conflict in this current system between bigs than there is with Chandler and Ama’re (given the need to maximize Howard’s look and therefore maximize his value) Chandler doesn’t need post-ups and, in fact, has almost no talent at all trying to score on the block.

      You can still run a lot of stuff with Ama’re with Chandler on board.

      Melo can fit into this system as a versatile do-it-all guy who occasionally posts up and Iso’s. He fits the MDA offense because he can shoot (and this will be evident) play the PnR bot has ballhandler and screener, and move without the ball.

    78. So, you don’t significantly improve your cap situation by moving Chandler and Melo, and you therefore can’t build a championship-caliber team around Howard.

      There’s Novak, yes, a much poorer man’s version of Anderson, who would need to start at the four or 3 to accommodate a Howard offense

      But the point guards are far inferior shooters than Orlando’s. So, the option then is to either minimize the contributions of Dwight on offense, making him a slightly more valuable Tyson Chandler, or significantly minimize the contributions and values of Lin in an MDA offense. Howard is not as good of a pick and roll player as Chandler. He’s not quite as nimble, his hands aren’t quite as good.

      And still, with a Howard team you’re missing the championship shot-creator that’s kept previous Howard teams from winning it all. There’d be no space to sign that guy and improve the shooting.

      So, I would venture to say that a mazimized Lin +Chandler+Melo is better than a Lin+Howard when their value decreases in this kind of situation.

    79. ruruland:
      So, you don’t significantly improve your cap situation by moving Chandler and Melo, and you therefore can’t build a championship-caliber team around Howard.

      There’s Novak, yes, a much poorer man’s version of Anderson, who would need to start at the four or 3 to accommodate a Howard offense

      But the point guards are far inferior shooters than Orlando’s. So, the option then is to either minimize the contributions of Dwight on offense, making him a slightly more valuable Tyson Chandler, or significantly minimize the contributions and values of Lin in an MDA offense. Howard is not as good of a pick and roll player as Chandler. He’s not quite as nimble, his hands aren’t quite as good.

      And still, with a Howard team you’re missing the championship shot-creator that’s kept previous Howard teams from winning it all. There’d be no space to sign that guy and improve the shooting.

      So, I would venture to say that a mazimized Lin +Chandler+Melo is better than a Lin+Howard when their value decreases in this kind of situation.

      There is a looooot of points you are making here, it would take all night to argue. Two quick remarks: my vision of a trade (IF that were to happen) was to result in a Lin+Melo+Howard trio. Second, you make the point that Howard can ONLY post and create for himself. This is simply not true. Howard can benefit immensely from PNR situations (the Magic do not play only inside-out, but they also run PNRs, although their PG is not an elite player), and the Knicks can benefit immensely from Howards posting when needed (just remember yesterday’s game in Boston)

    80. Yeah, it’s exactly what I expected from D’Antoni. It’s actually kind of funny, he is vocalizing exactly what I said D’Antoni would do:

      “No. That’s who we are,” D’Antoni said of his starting lineup.

      “I’m sticking with guys”

      and

      “[B]etween J.R. [Smith], Landry and Shump, whoever is playing well down the stretch is going to play.”

      He’s a reeeeeally stubborn dude.

      By the way, “D’an” is an awful nickname for the coach.

    81. ROUGH: There is a looooot of points you are making here, it would take all night toargue. Two quick remarks: my vision of a trade (IF that were to happen) was to result in a Lin+Melo+Howard trio. Second, you make the point that Howard can ONLY post and create for himself. This is simply not true. Howard can benefit immensely from PNR situations (the Magic do not play only inside-out, but they also run PNRs, although their PG is not an elite player), and the Knicks can benefit immensely from Howards posting when needed (just remember yesterday’s game in Boston)

      I think if there was any way in a 3 team deal where you could somehow rid yourself of Amar’e and trade Chandler for Dwight, that would be a great core that would leave you with enough money to get the needed role players.

      I just don’t see how you can get it done, though.

    82. Brian Cronin:
      Yeah, it’s exactly what I expected from D’Antoni. It’s actually kind of funny, he is vocalizing exactly what I said D’Antoni would do:

      and

      He’s a reeeeeally stubborn dude.

      By the way, “D’an” is an awful nickname for the coach.

      If it means Fields plays 10-15 minutes a game, as the Spurs use their starting two and as Denver used to use a guy like Dhantay Jones, it’s not that big of a deal really.

      It’s not ideal, but as long as you’re getting 50+ minutes from Shump and Smith you can live with it.

    83. Reminder–

      J. R. Smith TS%–44.4%, on a slightly above-average USG
      Iman Shumpert TS%–46%, on a slightly above-average USG
      Landry Fields TS%–52.9%, on a below-average USG

      Average this season across the NBA looks to be about 51-52%ish.

      Fields is the best rebounder of the group, with ballhandling about even when considering successful and reckless plays altogether. Fields is probably the least effective defender, but it’s closer than people give it credit for–Smith, in particular, has a Douglas-esque tendency to go for steals and get burned. While Fields can get run around by small quick guys, he’s been effective and steady against slow, bigger wily types like Kobe in a way that his more aggressive teammates haven’t always managed. Basically, despite the griping of people on the board, they’re all playing at similar levels, and given that Fields needs the ball the least, he should be the one playing with Lin, Melo, and Amar’e.

      (For that matter, Baron Davis, exactly as predicted, has passed very well and just been abominably sucky at every other aspect of the game.)

    84. ruruland:
      Still not buying the Thunder at all. Durant is a turnover machine.

      Let’s hope it’s decided in OT tonight. The more exhausted the Mavs, the better. :)))

    85. @94 Fields is by far the worst defender of the three especially when you consider both Smith and Shump can guard ones better (and probably threes as well) in a system that switches a lot. Two, Fields has done two things well- cut to the basket and run the high screen and roll from the weakside. If Shumpert can get to and finish around the basket the way he has the last couple of games (he looks quicker and certainly more explosive than he has, making you wonder if he’s knees have been bothering him all along), his defensive superiority- which is vast considering you can switch him onto point guards who are killing Lin like they did against Cleveland- makes you have to think about starting him. Also, he’s a better ballhandler than Fields- he has a few more ballhandling turnovers, 23 to 15, but considering he actually handled the ball far more while playing point guard I’d say the numbers are actually in his favor- and he’s certainly better able to bring the ball up to take pressure off Lin if need be. Still, the main thing the Knicks need from whoever plays the two in the starting unit is outside shooting where Fields and Shumpert have been equally bad. Ideally, one of three- most likely Smith but maybe Fields, and doubtfully Shumpert- starts hitting threes well enough to provide some of the floor spacing that is lacking on the first unit.
      And on Davis- let’s give him a few games shall we? He’s never been a super-high turnover guy so those numbers should come down, he’s been no worse on defense than Lin, and while his usage is a little higher than I thought, he hasn’t been in full-on chuck mode- maybe one really bad shot a game. If his fg% and tov% stay where they are, he’e still better than Douglas but a huge disappointment. If those numbers get back to his career numbers and he lowers his usage just a tad, he’s a huge bargin.

    86. ruruland:
      Still not buying the Thunder at all. Durant is a turnover machine.

      dude, Durant has a career average of 3.1 turnovers per game… Carmelo Anthony has a career average of 3.0 turnovers per game.

      Durant’s turnovers are up because he’s trying to create more for his teammates, and it takes time to get used to it, specially for a guy who’s 6’10″… his turnovers are up, but so are his assists, his ast% has risen from 13.2 to 17.5… aside from that, he’s shown improvement on both rebounding and shooting percentage (his team has exactly 3 offensive threats on the entire roster and he’s got a .612 TS%)

    87. yoda4554:
      Reminder–

      J. R. Smith TS%–44.4%, on a slightly above-average USG
      Iman Shumpert TS%–46%, on a slightly above-average USG
      Landry Fields TS%–52.9%, on a below-average USG

      Average this season across the NBA looks to be about 51-52%ish.

      Fields is the best rebounder of the group, with ballhandling about even when considering successful and reckless plays altogether.Fields is probably the least effective defender, but it’s closer than people give it credit for–Smith, in particular, has a Douglas-esque tendency to go for steals and get burned.While Fields can get run around by small quick guys, he’s been effective and steady against slow, bigger wily types like Kobe in a way that his more aggressive teammates haven’t always managed.Basically, despite the griping of people on the board, they’re all playing at similar levels, and given that Fields needs the ball the least, he should be the one playing with Lin, Melo, and Amar’e.

      Shumpert has finally been put in the role of playing SG with the four starters down the stretch of the past two games, which is the job under question, and he has kicked ass. for a big chunk of the season, he was asked to start at PG and try to get everyone involved, clearly not his ideal role, and one that I’m sure hurt his TS% since the PG has the ball so much in D’Antoni’s offense and with his PG skills lacking, he ended up with it at the end of the clock too often (while Landry is generally snoozing far away from the play).

    88. Re Landry, after that first 3-ball, he once again looked like a deer in the headlights. Frank, what does synergy say about Landry’s in 1st quarter vs. rest of game?

      I must be one of the few that was encouraged by Amare’s play yesterday.

      Robert, you have to put your old avatar back up. I mean, why would you switch when you don’t have to and when the offense dares you to and burns you time and time again? There’s a reason why players match up the way they do, and switching totally defeats that purpose. It’s just bad basketball. Cant the Knicks just emulate the Celts on D?

    89. I wouldn’t mind the Knicks getting a package centered around Ryan Anderson and giving up ‘Melo which Orlando would use to try to entice D12 to stay.

      Admittedly, it’s a long shot and the salaries do not match up very well.

    90. Melo won’t go, Dolan would never trade him… Amare is the one who needs to go, his defense has been beyond unacceptable for quite a while already, and he can’t compensate for it anymore on offense.

    91. I have an insane idea, how about we stick with this current team, which is healthy and complete for the first time all season, and let’s see what happens?

    92. Bruno Almeida: dude, Durant has a career average of 3.1 turnovers per game… Carmelo Anthony has a career average of 3.0 turnovers per game.

      Durant’s turnovers are up because he’s trying to create more for his teammates, and it takes time to get used to it, specially for a guy who’s 6’10?… his turnovers are up, but so are his assists, his ast% has risen from 13.2 to 17.5… aside from that, he’s shown improvement on both rebounding and shooting percentage (his team has exactly 3 offensive threats on the entire roster and he’s got a .612 TS%)

      I’m not saying he isn’t a great player, nor of course, would he be the reason the Thunder won’t make the Finals. (We agree on the lack of offensive weapons on that team, some of it a total lack of structure and continuity on offense)

      But he has an extremely high dribble that dramatically hinders his game as a driver… (he’s never had a positive turnover/assist differential) Still obviously a good driver with explosive quickness, but we’re talking about 4 turnovers a game right now. A lot of 5,6,7 turnover games against the better defensive teams.

      Right now the Thunder are 1.5 points better with Durant on the bench. They seem to play much more in control when Harden is the primary or secondary guy handling the ball.

      I don’t see it improving because it’s inherent to his high-dribble. So long as his usage is as high as it is those turns are going to be sky-high. Westbrook turns it over a ton, too. They don’t have any inside-out offense and very little continuity offense.

      WHen everything you get in half court is dribble penetration, you’re prone to a lot of turnovers in close playoff games when whistles get swallowed.

      They’ve won an inordinate amount of close games this year, their Pythag is 26-11, going down after tonight .

      cont…

    93. d-mar:
      I have an insane idea, how about we stick with this current team, which is healthy and complete for the first time all season, and let’s see what happens?

      Cosign.

    94. So much of the Thunder’s efficiency is tied up in its transition game.

      Under 10 seconds Durants efg% is 642. It drops to 420 and 456 when he has to create for himself late in the shot clock(assist percentage takes a huge drop)

      http://www.82games.com/1112/11OKC9.HTM

      You start to look at Harden’s distribution of production and efficiency and you can see he’s a much better creator in the half court, albeit, with less defensive attention in all likelihood

      http://www.82games.com/1112/11OKC6.HTM

      As a matter of comparison, despite everything Melo’s gone through this year, his EFG% late in the clock is right with Durant’s at .465.

      My contention, which is verifiable statistically, is that Melo’s TS% can compare to Durant’s when his assisted baskets are similar. Perhaps not above .600 or .610 for entire seasons (because he’ll never get Durant’s whistle) but something in the ballpark. As I mentioned before, the last time Melo played with a passing point guard who could facilitate all of the other versatility in his game, he was at a TS% of .573 for a 95 game stretch, averaging about 30 points a game during that time span.

      When you’re simply asking both of them to create for themselves or teammates, in an isolation or post-up situation, Melo is superior. It’s part of the reason Melo has historically dominated his match-up with Durant head to head.

      While Melo will never be as proficient off of screens as Durant, he has other ways of moving without the ball, including the semi-transition post-up, which we’re starting to see again from him.

    95. DS:
      I wouldn’t mind the Knicks getting a package centered around Ryan Anderson and giving up ‘Melo which Orlando would use to try to entice D12 to stay.

      Admittedly, it’s a long shot and the salaries do not match up very well.

      How about just switch rosters with the Magic, or maybe become a Magic fan until the trade is completed???

    96. DS:
      I wouldn’t mind the Knicks getting a package centered around Ryan Anderson and giving up ‘Melo which Orlando would use to try to entice D12 to stay.

      Admittedly, it’s a long shot and the salaries do not match up very well.

      Oh wait, you’re saying trade Anderson for Melo straight-up, that’s even smarter.

    97. d-mar: d-mar
      March 5, 2012 at 10:43 pm
      I have an insane idea, how about we stick with this current team, which is healthy and complete for the first time all season, and let’s see what happens?

      I don’t have very high hopes for “what happens” when you run an offense through someone with a 40% field goal percentage.

    98. DS: I don’t have very high hopes for “what happens” when you run an offense through someone with a 40% field goal percentage.

      Right now let’s make a friendly wager of what Melo’s fg% and TS% will be starting in the second half. Let’s see your number.

    99. ruruland: Oh wait, you’re saying trade Anderson for Melo straight-up, that’s even smarter.

      With filler, Turkoglu, presumably.

    100. ruruland: DS:
      I wouldn’t mind the Knicks getting a package centered around Ryan Anderson and giving up ‘Melo which Orlando would use to try to entice D12 to stay.

      Admittedly, it’s a long shot and the salaries do not match up very well.

      Oh wait, you’re saying trade Anderson for Melo straight-up, that’s even smarter.

      There you go, comprehend what you read first, and then respond; take Advil if your head starts to hurt. And “a package centered around…” wouldn’t mean “straight-up,” would it?

    101. DS: There you go,comprehend what you read first, and then respond; take Advil if your head starts to hurt.And “a package centered around…” wouldn’t mean “straight-up,” would it?

      Yeah, but let’s be honest, right now you’d take Anderson over Melo 7 days a week. He’s got that unbelievable TS% and offensive rating. Big-time playoff guy, too.

    102. Faried’s line tonight through regulation:

      6-7 FG for 16 points, 9 rebounds and 1 TO in 29 minutes.

      Kill me.

    103. This is the team. The knicks are not making a trade right now and they shouldn’t.

      d-mar:
      I have an insane idea, how about we stick with this current team, which is healthy and complete for the first time all season, and let’s see what happens?

      I agree. Especially, now that Melo is playing in the flow of the offense.

      I agree with Dantoni about Fields. I wouldn’t rock the ship right now. Fields fits in well with the starters because he doesn’t demand a lot of shots and he makes a lot of things happen away from the ball. Moreso, I think Smith and Shump fit in better with the second team. Those guys are a great unit.
      If they can just refine things a little bit more the potential is sky high.

    104. The Honorable Cock Jowles:
      Faried’s line tonight through regulation:

      6-7 FG for 16 points, 9 rebounds and 1 TO in 29 minutes.

      Kill me.

      Yeah. he’s something man.

      You were right on.

      Lawson is in the middle of taking his game to another level, too. Had the game-winner and game-sealer last two nights, and averaged 15 assists last 3 games. It’s becoming his team. Those two are going to be quite the defense-offense duo. So fast and unstoppable when they run together.

      Denver is in prime position to bundle 3-4 of their guys and picks to get a top 20 30 player.

      They have five bigs and with Chandler five wings, all with value. You could probably move Miller if you had to.

      While the previous regime was quite good, Masai has done an unbelievable job.

    105. The Honorable Cock Jowles:
      Faried’s line tonight through regulation:

      6-7 FG for 16 points, 9 rebounds and 1 TO in 29 minutes.

      Kill me.

      He’s a Rodman/Kemp hybrid, frankly, and he’s in the perfect system with the perfect coach.

    106. Why in the world would they want to bundle 3-4 guys and picks for a top 20-30 player? You mean get Carmelo back? I think they are in the position they want to be in right now, with a young balanced team (even if they are beat-up). Not saying they are better than the Knicks (they are not), but they have a lot of options moving forward with their roster that don’t involve blowing it up for a 20-30 player.

      ruruland: Yeah. he’s something man.

      You were right on.

      Lawson is in the middle of taking his game to another level, too. Had the game-winner and game-sealer last two nights, and averaged 15 assists last 3 games. It’s becoming his team. Those two are going to be quite the defense-offense duo. So fast and unstoppable when they run together.

      Denver is in prime position to bundle 3-4 of their guys and picks to get a top 20 30 player.

      They have five bigs and with Chandler five wings, all with value. You could probably move Miller if you had to.

      While the previous regime was quite good, Masai has done an unbelievable job.

    107. An optimist would say, “Hey, Philly lost!!!”

      A pessimist would say, “Argh, Bucks won”

      Hopefully, we’l be discussing the first time much more than the second team for the remainder of the year.

    108. Faried’s line tonight through regulation:

      6-7 FG for 16 points, 9 rebounds and 1 TO in 29 minutes.

      Kill me.

      I loved Faried and also wanted the Knicks to get him (and I’d probably still prefer him to Shumpert), but it’s not like Shumpert is not a quality player, as well. Shumpert is a fine player. So I can’t bemoan losing out on Faried when they got Shumpert. They’re both good players. The real dummies are the teams that passed on Faried and Shumpert like Washington’s awful draft and Charlotte’s awful top 10 pick of Bismack Biyombo. In addition, Kawhi Leonard should have gone in the Top 10. When you look at Leonard, Faried and Shumpert, all three were hurt by not being seen as scorers in the NBA. Scoring continues to be so overrated.

    109. And to add to the Landry vs. Smith vs. Shumpert fire:

      I really believe that Shumpert is the best SG we have right now, especially with Smith struggling so much with his shot. Smith without his 3 point shot is very similar to Shump, but with worse defense (still above average). And Landry, O Landry. Some days he is the clear cut best SG on the team; hitting the boards, making smart passes, and scoring efficiently. Other days, he is by far the worst of the three, which is why I don’t have anything against D’antoni’s decision to go with whoever is playing well in the game instead of choosing someone before or writing Fields off. If Smith can start to get it going from outside, he will be a major upgrade off the bench and will probably ultimately be our best SG, but right now it is pretty much going to come down to who is playing well during the games (and Shump is really playing well of late).

    110. so as you can see, I don’t want Landry to be benched, solely based on Shumpert’s inability to score efficiently and Smith’s recent struggles from the field shooting. If Shumpert can keep his efficiency up though, folks, we have our future SG.

    111. Will the Thrill:
      Why in the world would they want to bundle 3-4 guys and picks for a top 20-30 player? You mean get Carmelo back? I think they are in the position they want to be in right now, with a young balanced team (even if they are beat-up). Not saying they are better than the Knicks (they are not), but they have a lot of options moving forward with their roster that don’t involve blowing it up for a 20-30 player.

      How would it be blowing it up?

      With Wilson Chandler they have 12 guys who should get at least 20 minutes a game.

      I’m saying now that Faried has established himself they’re in prime position to make that move for the player they want. Doesn’t mean it has to happen before the deadline, but you’ve got to take advantage of the demonstrated value guys have now before they get buried on the bench and their wares becomes more questionable.

      You’ve got Mosgov (who’s looked really good since returning) Kofous (check out his advanced stats this year) and Bird who’s still playing at an extremely high level in his role.

      You simply have to start giving Faried 30 minutes a game.

      To me, they can move Nene, Mosgov and one or two of their wings to get a rim defender, or a more versatile inside-out offensive guy.

      A guy like Josh Smith could be very attractive (it would take picks, too). Playing with a Lawson kind of pg, with the kind of spacing and shooting Denver has could really bring his game to another level (gives Denver a rim defender, he’d limit his jumpers)

      If Memphis has topped out, perhaps Rudy Gay (he’s a versatile enough defender to cover 2’s)

      What are the Celtics doing this off-season? Perhaps a sign and trade for Allen or Garnett or outrgith signing if u moved Nene.

      If the Spurs are a quick out again do they consider moving Duncan or Ginobli?

      Denver needs a player of that caliber, and they…

    112. Will the Thrill:
      And to add to the Landry vs. Smith vs. Shumpert fire:

      I really believe that Shumpert is the best SG we have right now, especially with Smith struggling so much with his shot.Smith without his 3 point shot is very similar to Shump, but with worse defense (still above average).And Landry, O Landry.Some days he is the clear cut best SG on the team; hitting the boards, making smart passes, and scoring efficiently.Other days, he is by far the worst of the three, which is why I don’t have anything against D’antoni’s decision to go with whoever is playing well in the game instead of choosing someone before or writing Fields off.If Smith can start to get it going from outside, he will be a major upgrade off the bench and will probably ultimately be our best SG, but right now it is pretty much going to come down to who is playing well during the games (and Shump is really playing well of late).

      One thing you haven’t mentioned is the kind of looks Shumpert is now getting in the “slot” position in MDA’s offense. It’s a slash and shoot position for guy who can be either in the strong or weakside in the middle/angled PNR (depending on which direction the screen is set).

      He’s 11-19 after the break with the full-lineup. He’s a synergy player when combined with other shooting threats and a point guard.

      You don’t want him to be a decision maker, but a read, react and attack guy.

    113. Yes he is getting these oppurtunities, but these are the same exact looks that Fields gets most games, and he has been clobbered on this site for only be able to convert on these looks. I actually believe that Fields is a better finisher than Shumpert around the rim, but neither of them can shoot 3’s which really hurts our spacing. That is why Smith’s shooting would be so instrumental to our offense, if he ever gets going. I definitely don’t see Fields shooting 3’s like he did last year anytime soon, at least not with his “re-tooled shot” that was implemented during the offseason.

      ruruland: One thing you haven’t mentioned is the kind of looks Shumpert is now getting in the “slot” position in MDA’s offense. It’s a slash and shoot position for guy who can be either in the strong or weakside in the middle/angled PNR (depending on which direction the screen is set).

      He’s 11-19 after the break with the full-lineup. He’s a synergy player when combined with other shooting threats and a point guard.

      You don’t want him to be a decision maker, but a read, react and attack guy.

    114. “Right now let’s make a friendly wager of what Melo’s fg% and TS% will be starting in the second half. Let’s see your number.”

      Well, we know what your number is – we have you on the board saying Melo is going to post a 60% ts% right? He is off to a flying start. It’s going to be a nailbiter….

      The analysis of Durant vs Melo is, I have to say fascinating. It’s pretty amazing how rabid an C. Anthony fan you are. Apparently you think Melo is worthy of carrying Durant’s jock strap.

      Hard to argue that actually, Melo is the perfect third tier scorer to carry KD’s jockstrap around.

    115. Owen:
      “Right now let’s make a friendly wager of what Melo’s fg% and TS% will be starting in the second half. Let’s see your number.”

      Well, we know what your number is – we have you on the board saying Melo is going to post a 60% ts% right? He is off to a flying start. It’s going to be a nailbiter….

      Post all-star break, correct.

      Look, jokes aside, he was at 60.8% before the Pierce miracle. Just saying. Nothing has deterred me from that prediction, certainly not a series of very difficult shots at the end of the Celtics game.

      Let me know what differences you see here:

      http://www.82games.com/1011/10OKC9.HTM

      http://www.82games.com/1011/10NYK14.HTM

      Durant has historically been in the upper 50s to 60s in percentage of baskets assisted.

      Melo hasn’t been in that area since ’07, when he had a TS% of .568. The last time he had a true point guard in Andre Miller, when his assisted baskets were in that upper ’50s range, his TS% was .573 over 95 games (as a 20 and 21-year-old).

      Since Melo returned from his injury, integrating into an offense with a passing point guard for the first time since 2006, 20 of his 35 baskets have been assisted.

      20/35. That’s 57%

      Previous to his return, Melo was sitting at 28% assisted baskets, one of the lowest numbers in the league (among wings). 14% lower than iso-machine Kobe Bryant, nine percent lower than the ball-dominating Lebron James.

      I’ve explained some of the reasons why I think Melo’s TS% will go above previous career highs in this offense.

    116. In europe, with a lead of 3 point, you foul all the time.
      in this way you put them in a tight spot and most of all you took them away the chance to tie. they can’t control their destiny
      probably you must shoot some ft too, but so what?

    117. Yeah so I just read 2 different versions of a quote today from D’Antoni talking about Lin.

      Berman’s version: “But one thing I do know, he’s a tough-minded kid and will find a way to win. He brought us back [in the fourth quarter]. He had six straight points and resurrected us and if it wasn’t for [Paul] Pierce’s shot, we would’ve won and we’d be sitting here saying he’s great.’’

      Sounds harmless. Now check out Isola’s version: “One thing I do know about him, he’s a tough-minded kid, he will find a way to win. I thought he brought us back. He had six straight points where he resurrected us and if it wasn’t for a (missed) shot (by Carmelo Anthony), we would’ve won.”

      All I gotta say is WOW. Thats kinda a big difference at the end of those quotes.

    118. ruruland, if you don’t believe in OKC, who do you think are the favorites out West?

      one thing about OKC that people seem to forget is how great their interior defense is. they beat DAL tonight in large part because Ibaka actually bothered Dirk down the stretch, inside and out. not many people in the league can do that, and most of the top West teams rely on offense from their PF (Griffin, Gasol, Dirk, Duncan, Love, Z-Bo when he’s healthy).

    119. eah so I just read 2 different versions of a quote today from D’Antoni talking about Lin.

      Berman’s version: “But one thing I do know, he’s a tough-minded kid and will find a way to win. He brought us back [in the fourth quarter]. He had six straight points and resurrected us and if it wasn’t for [Paul] Pierce’s shot, we would’ve won and we’d be sitting here saying he’s great.’’

      Sounds harmless. Now check out Isola’s version: “One thing I do know about him, he’s a tough-minded kid, he will find a way to win. I thought he brought us back. He had six straight points where he resurrected us and if it wasn’t for a (missed) shot (by Carmelo Anthony), we would’ve won.”

      All I gotta say is WOW. Thats kinda a big difference at the end of those quotes.

      Yeah, yikes. What the heck?

      I was just reading an article about how much sportswriters can do with the quotes they are given (it was more in the context of making players look better by paraphrasing their speech, but I think it still applies). It really is kind of crazy that a reporter’s agenda can skew quotes all over the place.

    120. gotta say — I sorta can’t stand THCJ, but I sorta love Kenneth Faried. It’s a tough spot for me.

      Well, at least I still love Shumpert.

    121. Wow that is just awful. At least if it wasn’t obvious before it is now. Isola has an agenda.

    122. Faried has put up nice numbers. But who GAF. The talking about players on other teams is tedious.

    123. Nick C.:
      Wow that is just awful. At least if it wasn’t obvious before it is now. Isola has an agenda.

      ummm… maybe that version is accurate? More likely Berman fudged it to curry favor with Carmelo, than the other way around.

    124. Kinda kills the whole point of reporters if you have to guess or actually watch the conferences yourself.

    125. You don’t have to guess. Berman’s is the correct quote. Isola had to use the internal brackets to create his fantasy. Berman just straight up quoted it.

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