Knicks Morning News (2022.08.03)

  • Knicks’ Patrick Ewing pays tribute to Celtics legend Bill Russell – Daily Knicks
    [dailyknicks.com] — Tuesday, August 2, 2022 8:00:00 PM

    Knicks’ Patrick Ewing pays tribute to Celtics legend Bill Russell  Daily Knicks

  • Former Knick Close to a New Home? – Yardbarker
    [www.yardbarker.com] — Tuesday, August 2, 2022 7:47:58 PM

    Former Knick Close to a New Home?  Yardbarker

  • Former Knicks Star Mark Jackson Says Basketball in N.Y.C. Is All About ‘the Grit, the Grind, the Edge’ – Yahoo Entertainment
    [www.yahoo.com] — Tuesday, August 2, 2022 5:40:06 PM

    Former Knicks Star Mark Jackson Says Basketball in N.Y.C. Is All About ‘the Grit, the Grind, the Edge’  Yahoo Entertainment

  • Former Knicks Star Mark Jackson Says Basketball in N.Y.C. Is All About ‘the Grit, the Grind, the Edge’ – PEOPLE
    [people.com] — Tuesday, August 2, 2022 5:40:00 PM

    Former Knicks Star Mark Jackson Says Basketball in N.Y.C. Is All About ‘the Grit, the Grind, the Edge’  PEOPLE

  • What If The Clippers Signed This 10x NBA All-Star? – Sports Illustrated
    [www.si.com] — Tuesday, August 2, 2022 5:21:56 PM

    What If The Clippers Signed This 10x NBA All-Star?  Sports Illustrated

  • Analyzing Knicks’ reported competition for Donovan Mitchell trade – Daily Knicks
    [dailyknicks.com] — Tuesday, August 2, 2022 5:00:00 PM

    Analyzing Knicks’ reported competition for Donovan Mitchell trade  Daily Knicks

  • Bally Bet Sportsbook, New York Yankees Have Officially Partnered Up – Lineups
    [www.lineups.com] — Tuesday, August 2, 2022 4:35:37 PM

    Bally Bet Sportsbook, New York Yankees Have Officially Partnered Up  Lineups

  • NBA Buzz: Cavaliers, Trades, Lakers, Knicks, Durant, Pelicans – Yardbarker
    [www.yardbarker.com] — Tuesday, August 2, 2022 3:18:03 PM

    NBA Buzz: Cavaliers, Trades, Lakers, Knicks, Durant, Pelicans  Yardbarker

  • Pistons Officially Sign Former Knicks First-Round Pick – Sports Illustrated
    [www.si.com] — Tuesday, August 2, 2022 3:09:48 PM

    Pistons Officially Sign Former Knicks First-Round Pick  Sports Illustrated

  • Opinion: The New York Knicks Should Sign This 7x NBA All-Star – Sports Illustrated
    [www.si.com] — Tuesday, August 2, 2022 2:41:35 PM

    Opinion: The New York Knicks Should Sign This 7x NBA All-Star  Sports IllustratedProjecting Knicks’ Depth Chart, Rotation After 2022 NBA Free Agency  Bleacher ReportKnicks should avoid giving up Quentin Grimes in a Donovan Mitchell trade  Daily KnicksSummer Living: Catching Up with the 2022 Knicks  The Knicks WallKnicks Morning News (2022.08.02) ? KnickerBlogger.Net  KnickerBloggerView Full Coverage on Google News

  • LA Lakers Rumors Roundup: Russell Westbrook continues to be linked to several teams, Brodie’s new agent fuels rumors that a contract buyout is on its way, and more – August 2nd, 2022 – Sportskeeda
    [www.sportskeeda.com] — Tuesday, August 2, 2022 12:24:20 PM

    LA Lakers Rumors Roundup: Russell Westbrook continues to be linked to several teams, Brodie’s new agent fuels rumors that a contract buyout is on its way, and more – August 2nd, 2022  Sportskeeda

  • Former Knicks Starter Linked to Western Conference Title Contender – Heavy.com
    [heavy.com] — Tuesday, August 2, 2022 12:09:35 PM

    Former Knicks Starter Linked to Western Conference Title Contender  Heavy.com

  • A profile of new Knicks big man Isaiah Hartenstein – Posting and Toasting
    [www.postingandtoasting.com] — Tuesday, August 2, 2022 11:30:14 AM

    A profile of new Knicks big man Isaiah Hartenstein  Posting and Toasting

  • 3 Superteams That Could Be Formed For The 2022-23 NBA Season: Lakers, Celtics And Knicks Become The New Powerhouses – Fadeaway World
    [fadeawayworld.net] — Tuesday, August 2, 2022 8:44:18 AM

    3 Superteams That Could Be Formed For The 2022-23 NBA Season: Lakers, Celtics And Knicks Become The New Powerhouses  Fadeaway World

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    58 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2022.08.03)”

    1. >Porzingis forced the trade. The Knicks had virtually no leverage — either trade him or he’ll walk for nothing.>But that’s what’s goink to happen when you waste cap space on the NBA’s middle class in hope that they’ll outperform their contracts during their decline phases.<

      I never bought the NY spin on the KP trade. I think they wanted him out because of the injuries, issues with his brother, and legal issues in NY. The Dallas deal was negotiated before they even met with him.

      We agree and disagree.

      IMO

      It's generally a foolish Plan "A" to try to use cap space to attract young up and coming players or established stars when your team sucks.

      When you do have cap space, you have to put something into it. Since that often won't be the kind of player you are really looking for, don't put a long term contract into it unless you think that player is a permanent solution at that position and fits with the overall plan.

      We have often violated both the ideas.

    2. Okay, let’s pretend for a second that Aller and Leon hold the line, Ainge refuses to budge, and we go into the season with this squad:

      C: Mitch/Hart/Sims
      PF: Randle/Obi (plus Feron Hunt on two-way)
      SF: RJ/Fournier/Cam
      SG: Grimes/Quickley
      PG: Brunson/Rose/Deuce (plus Trevor Keels on two-way)

      Still two roster spots to fill, one or both of them likely combo forwards. And I am assuming based on all the pre-Spida chatter that Grimes will start and Fournier will join the bench mob.

      A roster with many question marks, some intriguing, some worrisome, coming in the next comment:

    3. What if you have access to a loan that can only be spent on one property? And if you don’t invest that money not only do you lose access to the potential rental income and value appreciation, the money will just go to James Dylan’s bank account?

      In this analogy, the property (RJ) is a serious fixer-upper that’s going to require enormous capital to improve and has high property taxes. You’re better off eating the loan.

      Don’t overcomplicate this: he’s just not worth close to that kind of money and everyone knows it. Everyone except RJ, it seems.

    4. And maybe that’s a problem, you know? This is a guy who played with Zion in college and thought his team had the best chance to win if he jacked up 17 shots and didn’t pass the ball. I don’t think we should feed his “Maple Mamba” delusions.

      He can be an outstanding player in the proper lane. But he ain’t a star, and if we pay him like one he’s never going to stop thinking he is.

    5. 1)How much does having an honest-to-goodness point guard for the first time in forever — even one who is a bit more of a scorer than a distributor — trickle down to the rest of the roster? Will we see substantial improvement from guys now that they are not being asked to create more than they should?

      2)Can Julius get his head right, especially if he is no longer the engine of the offense? If not, will Thibs be willing to play him less and play Obi more?

      3)RJ got much better at getting to the basket post-New Year’s this past season, but he’s still a lousy finisher and not a great free throw shooter. Will he be better at either after a summer of working on his game again? With Brunson controlling the ball, will RJ slide down into what may be a more fitting third banana role?

      4)Was the play of Obi and IQ over the last couple of weeks of the season real, or just a mirage against teams slowing down in the dog days?

      5)How much will Hart’s passing improve what was already a fantastic second unit?

      6)Will Cam Reddish ever play if the roster is healthy?

    6. I don’t think Fournier will be demoted so soon, Alan.

      And I wouldn’t underestimate Derrick Rose, either. I think he had a bigger trickle-down effect than Brunson is likely to.

      Playing with him seems to be an important stepping stone in player development. He had a great impact on Obi and IQ when he was acquired.

      So I’m thinking the bench mob is Rose, Quickley, Grimes, Obi, Hart; and I expect that unit to crush our starters.

    7. Hubert, all the messaging in the summer was about the Knicks thinking about starting Grimes. For an organization that doesn’t talk much to the press, there was a whole lot of off the record noise about this. So either that’s them trying to generate interest in Grimes as a trade candidate, and/or they are seriously considering it. Grimes helps cover for Brunson being a willing but not gifted defender, and his quick catch and shoot skills are better suited to fit in a lineup with three different players who like to dribble a lot. Whereas Fournier can playmake a little himself, and would do well in the more free-flowing offense of the bench mob.

    8. RJ is a weird player.

      Thinking about him and KP, he is almost the opposite of KP. He starts out the season horribly and then gets better in like January.

      The thing for me…and this is strictly eye test. It feels like in each of his three seasons, when he’s good, his “good” is at a higher level than it was the previous season. But then he reverts to bad RJ almost like he’s a rookie again. So the highs have gotten a little higher each season but his lows are still there for long stretches. So you see the potential if he can just be consistent or at the very least, not be so bad when he’s not good (if that makes sense). I do think so much of it has to do with not having a real PG though.

      It will be interesting for sure if we go into the season as we are now. I kind of want us to do that (and I generally do support a trade for Mitchell AT THE RIGHT PRICE). But seeing a team with Brunson where RJ can be like the third option (I guess Randle and Brunson are options 1 and 1A)…will hopefully allow RJ to be that jack of all trades player. Honestly, that is the RJ I like the best. The guy who can do everything reasonably well and is a useful and versatile player.

      I’d also like to see IQ get the start over Fournier.

    9. I agree they seemed to be pumping Grimes early in the offseason, but be it Grimes or Quick, i have to say that starting Fournier would be asking for another bad season. How can Brunson, Fournier, RJ and Randle be good? There isn’t a single good defender in this group, and Mitch can’t cover for all of them all the time. I think Grimes in Fournier’s place is the best option because Grimes can manage to be low usage, and i don’t think Quick can.

    10. RJ is a good one-on-one defender, Cyber, even if (as others here have pointed out) he tends to drift in the other areas of team defense. So RJ, Grimes, and Mitch gives you three defenders of varying skill alongside a point guard who at least tries hard on that end despite his physical limitations. Randle is the real problem in almost any configuration. The guy from the Covid season figured out how to use his sheer strength to compensate for his lack of quickness and verticality. The guy last season didn’t look like he cared in the slightest on that end of the court. I expect very little from him overall, and especially on defense.

    11. I forgot about Grimes LOL.

      Yeah I would try to start Grimes too. He may not be able to shoot quite as well as Fournier but I think he makes up for it on defense by a mile. Only issue with that is then it moves fournier to the bench and do you play him over QUICK or Fournier at the 3?

      Honestly, we need Fournier gone.

    12. There was a Twitter post of RJ working out and doing a nice move to get around his defender. The nice move was the point of the post. It was practice and there was no one else was between him and the basket so he ran there and just sort of laid it in, but the ball actually bounced out. He obviously wasn’t focusing and could have focused and got it in, but I still didn’t like it it. He should be trying to make everything he does at the highest level. To quote Martina Navratilova, you play like you practice.

    13. Knick Fan, Vorkunov and Katz have written a lot the last couple of years about the obsessive training RJ does each offseason to improve a few aspects of his game. If he fails to become a better finisher, it will not be for lack of focus and dedication, but just from his own (relative) athletic limitations.

    14. About your questions, Alan.
      1) I think we’ll be a lot better with a good PG, as we were when DRose was playing very well on the 2nd half of the 2020-21 season. And although Brunson doesn’t look to be a playmaking-PG, i’m hoping he’ll try to improve that part of his game. Maybe in Dallas he was asked to try to emulate Luka when he played without Luka, and that’s why he always looked for his own shot instead of making plays.
      2) No clue about how this will play out. Randle is a mistery to me. And that’s why i’d prefer to trade him, if we find a good deal. He has the ability to doom our season by himself. I wouldn’t risk that, if i was Leon.
      3) This is vital to the future of this team, RJ needs to make peace with the fact that he’ll never be the man on a contender. No need to be 3rd banana, he can be 2B alongside Brunson. But to be good, this team will need a 1A star capable of leading us to the promise land.
      (Side note: Mitchell himself is not 1A also, he’s 2A or maybe 1B if all things are working around him)
      4) I think it was 50/50, part it was teams slowing down, but i sure seemed like they were much improved and percolating. (I miss Clyde, can you tell? lol)
      I’m trying to not get super hopeful that Quick and Obi will have a great season, because until the regular season begins there’ll be a dark cloud (Mitchell) hanging over us. But if they stay, i’ll get to that point, that’s for sure.
      5) I like Hart’s signing a lot, but let’s wait to see how he’ll adapt to MSG pressure. He was in LA, but the Clippers don’t face a lot of pressure. I think this tandem at C can be even better than Mitch-Noel, because now we have different skills between the two.
      6) Cam is a non factor, if we have time available (injuries, trades) we should play him to know if he’s worth keeping next offseason. But if we don’t, he’ll have to show his worth in practice, or else he’ll be gone by trade deadline just like Knox last season.

    15. RJ is a good one-on-one defender, Cyber, even if (as others here have pointed out) he tends to drift in the other areas of team defense.

      I agree. And Brunson is good one-on-one too, because he’s strong and compensates the lack of height/wingspan. But i wouldn’t label them good defenders, i’d say they’re average defenders. Grimes is good, with him we can have 2 good defenders (Mitch, Grimes), 2 average defenders (Brunson, RJ), and then if Randle keeps the level of 2021-22 he’ll be the only bad defender on the team and Thibs can demand more effort from him. The problem? Obi’s defense is not better than Randle’s.

    16. “In this analogy, the property (RJ) is a serious fixer-upper that’s going to require enormous capital to improve and has high property taxes. You’re better off eating the loan.”

      I don’t agree with this analogy at all.

      First, RJ is not a “fixer-upper” which usually refers to an older house that was shoddily constructed and/or hasn’t been cared for and the original equipment is all falling apart.

      If you were to apply that analogy to a younger player, it would be someone like Ben Simmons.

      Second, 20yo RJ Barrett was the second highers minutes player in the entire league in 2020-21 and you can’t separate him from the team’s winning record that year. I don’t think it is fully appreciated how hard it is to do that at 20 years old. For all of his issues with finishing, FT shooting, etc., he was still a winning player. There’s a reason why he played 2500 minutes under Thibs while fellow lottery picks Knox and Ntilikina played almost none. There are many positive aspects of his game that tend to get ignored in these superficial takes. These are the same kinds of takes that scoffed at Devin Booker getting maxed when he did (go back and read some of those hot takes on Booker being a one-dimensional usage-soaking volume scorer who was terrible at everything else especially defense and was hardly worthy of a mini-max extension.) There is way too much focus on RJ’s offensive shortcomings and not nearly enough on his overall abilities. He’s very inconsistent like many young players, but when he has it going he’s a very, very good player.

      That’s not to say he should be offered a max at this time or deserves it ever. It’s a legitimate argument to say that he should not be offered max money either right now or ever, or that he should be traded. But let’s keep it real. He’s a very good all-around young player with a high ceiling. As to reaching that ceiling, he just turned 22 and is almost certainly going to improve substantially given his mindset, work ethic, demeanor, etc. He won’t require a massive investment to be at least a near market-value player at that price, just patience and time.

      BTW, Fred Katz took a poll of 16 NBA execs and every one of them priced RJ at $15M to $30M. Only one said $15M and 8 of them said $25M AAV over 4 years was about right. That hardly suggests that RJ is some sort of fixer-upper.

    17. Alan, I’m sure you are right that RJ works hard. I still didn’t like the ending of the video.

    18. At some point RJ has to start showing some real improvement. We’ve all read how hard he works and seen the videos etc, but this is still a guy who has shot 43%, 45% and 44% from inside the arc in 3 NBA seasons. He’s made 60% of his shots at the rim the last two years. If he gets to the rim a lot that’s not a big deal, because a shot you make 60% of the time is still good, but if RJ has been relentlessly working on his finishing he’s got nothing to show for it. He’s still shooting sub 35% from everywhere on the floor between the rim and the 3 point line and he’s taken about 35% of his shots in that area every year. Giving him a big extension now would be insane. If he actually shows improvement this year he’s still not going to be worth that money (unless he takes a huge leap) but you we’d at least have evidence that his work is translating to results.

    19. I’m curious what everyone here would offer Barrett if forced to make some offer. I personally think it’d make more sense to trade him vs any realistic figure, but if I had to make an offer, it’d be 5 years, $100m… Evan Fournier money. At that amount, there’s enough upside where if he becomes even a decent starter, he’s a little underpaid. I still think he’s probably gonna have more of an Evan Turner type career, i.e. neither good nor terrible at anything, a pretty good bench player, but given his age, the volatility adds value for a bad team. If he never improves, well, we probably weren’t gonna be good over the next few years anyway, so the upside matters more to us than the downside.

    20. The reason I’m so hell-bent on trading RJ is not because there is no chance he’ll be worth the max – it’s not much of a chance, but there is a chance – it’s because the role in which he has the most value is as an initiator, someone with the ball in his hands, a high-usage scorer/distributor. The problems are that 1) he is bad at both of those roles at the moment, 2) we just brought on a PG who is much better with the ball in his hands, 3) we still have a high-usage player in Randle who won’t likely be happy playing third banana to both Brunson and RJ, and 4) we are trying to trade for ANOTHER high usage player who, again, is much, much better with the ball in his hands than RJ

      So if RJ were our only high usage option, OK, let’s see where it goes. But he isn’t, and he is clearly inferior to the others. Combine that with GMs around the league valuing him more or less like a #2 option, and we should clearly trade him while his perceived value is high. His perceived value is much higher than his current value, and odds are, higher/much higher than his future value.

      The minute we signed Brunson we should have started thinking about trading RJ. If we actually get Mitchell, then we absolutely have to trade RJ. This all applies even if we manage to trade Randle.

    21. If we even consider maxing RJ now it would be crazy. Besides the facts that his current production does not warrant it and we have a pretty-much free option to act based upon next season’s future production, if we maxed him he becomes a Designated Rookie. And since we can only have two, it means that when Obi and IQ blossom into max level players next year, a painful choice will have to be made.

    22. Someday RJ will be good at the things he has never been good at. Especially if he’s well-compensated for it! I can just feel it!

    23. “The reason I’m so hell-bent on trading RJ”

      Don’t trade RJ. Don’t sign him long term right now, either. Problem solved. We don’t need to make those decisions right now. One of the many joys of not trying to pull off a starfuker trade is that we have all the time we need to properly evaluate our current assets. I think we’d all agree that RJ hasn’t had his best season yet. Let’s see what that looks like. Maybe he’s not the alpha. Maybe he’s not Ja or Zion, but you’re ascribing traits I’ve not seen if you think he demands the ball too much. Maybe he should probably demand it more.

      I’m so stoked to see this roster play this year. There is literally no downside right now. Nothing big is expected but there are multiple players with upside. I guess we’re conditioned to think we can never get synergy around here but maybe it clicks. If it doesn’t, we’re presently positioned quite well for a tear down.

      I like “run it back plus Brunson”. Great patience from Leon. You think he’ll jump the gun on a max for RJ?

    24. Although not RJ, Knicks, or basketball related I think it worthwhile to take a moment to comment on the passing of Vin Scully who, for my money, was the greatest play by play man ever, in any sport.

      In the tributes that have poured in since his passing, much has been made of Vin’s calm demeanor, his totally unhomerish announcing of the Dodger team he covered for 67 years, and his knack for storytelling. Perhaps the thing I appreciated most about him was his almost minimalist approach to calling a game. This, sadly, appears to be a dying art in this day and age in which many an announcer feels compelled to fill as much airtime as possible with superfluous commentary, silly catchphrases, and generally inane, spittle flecked blather. Vin understood the importance of letting the game breathe organically and allowing the biggest moments to speak for themselves. Mets fans will no doubt appreciate revisiting Vin’s call of Mookie Wilson’s AB at the end of Game 6 of the ’86 series but it’s also a masterclass in how to announce a ballgame without stepping all over its climactic moment:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ujwjqIldwU

      I’m not a Dodger fan. Hell, I’m not even much of a baseball fan anymore but after I moved to LA, I would frequently find myself tuning into Dodger broadcasts just to have Vin’s voice on in the background as I went about doing other things. In a 24-hour news cycle world in which Each. Latest. Development, is breathlessly trumpeted as BREAKING NEWS! of some monumental import, hearing Vin’s calm, measured cadence would serve as a welcome reminder that not all in the world is as frantic as the overheated commentary typically heard from the current vintage of sports announcers and political pundits would have us believe.

      RIP Mr. Scully

    25. I don’t think we should max RJ either but I hardly think his future is set. He still has a high ceiling he just also has a low floor. I think people are writing off his ceiling too fast. Plus I think our bad offense might have hurt RJ’s numbers and I could easily see them bouncing back with a better PG and system.

      Overall, there is a reason to be less pessimistic about RJ’s 2pt shooting numbers than what it looks like at first glance. The Knicks were terrible at 2pt% as a team, not just RJ, but every non-center/Obi player on this roster was bad at 2pt%. In fact, all of our non-center veterans had near career lows in 2pt%. We had no PG, no offensive system, and bad spacing.

      If you look at all of our non-center vets these are their 2pt%’s last year compared to their average of the 4 seasons before last year:

      Fournier – 46.5% (in 21-22) – 51.5% (avg 4 years previous)
      Randle – 45.8% (in 21-22) – 53.2% (avg 4 years previous)
      Burks – 37.8% (in 21-22) – 43.6% (avg 4 years previous)
      Walker – 44.4% (in 21-22) – 48.2% (avg 4 years previous)
      Rose – 46.7% (in 21-22) – 51.0% (avg 4 years previous)

      On average our vets shot 5.3% worse on 2-point shots last year than in their previous 4 years.

      RJ is a 3rd-year player who should have seen his 2pt% go up but saw it go down instead. Maybe he did actually improve but he also felt the dip that all our other non-center players felt. If his 2pt% last year was held back by our offensive system that potentially makes his future prospects look a lot better. Maybe he failed to improve, that is possible, but maybe instead he did improve and that improvement is why his 2pt% “only” dropped by 1.5% instead of the over 5% that hit most of his teammates. If he had shot 48-49% instead of 44% we would all be much more hopeful for his future efficiency.

      We need to wait and see before signing any kind of big extension but I think there are reasons to stay optimistic about RJ and I think his future is much less set than others here would have you believe.

    26. what really stood out to me most about vince scully, he was the only one speaking – and, it worked great…

      there’s been a lot of phenomenal sports announcers…the really good ones are like spending time with a friend…

      due to the “pace” of baseball, i think it holds even more true…

    27. Joining a fantasy football league for the 1st time in a while.

      Anyone know any stats driven websites/sources for FFB?

    28. but maybe instead he did improve and that improvement is why his 2pt% “only” dropped by 1.5%

      Are you implying that basketball is a team sport and the play of other players on the court affects an individual player’s stats and they don’t create those stats in a vaccuum?

    29. vince and bill’s passing has me reflecting a bit…the other day i was sitting in my garden, a man and his child were out walking the dog, it’s funny, because of the kids – i’m now in with all the dog people in my community…

      the garden has some quiet spots to sit so they couldn’t see me…i heard the young boy ask his father how old he was, the man replied 44, to which the child loudly exclaimed – you’re old…the dad’s a pretty calm guy, and he was like – no, not really…the child wouldn’t let up though…

      finally i couldn’t stop from laughing out loud and yelled out that wasn’t old at all…of course the child disagreed…i told them though that with the way healthcare was these days that his dad would most likely live to be over a 100, that he himself might see a lifespan of 130 years…this quieted him…130 must seem like forever to a child…

      as the two walked away the child asked his dad if that was true…the dad thoughtfully, slowly replied that yes it was…

      i remember some years back my middle child being concerned with my age…i’m aging okay, but still it’s apparent i’m not exactly at the beginning of the journey, they were concerned i might be checking out shortly…the conversation lasted a few months…just a period of thought some children go through…

      heck, every time i visit with the young boy next door to mom’s (he’s 7) we usually spend at least an hour discussing snakes, he’s got questions, it’s fun being a sounding board for him…they hear/see things, particularly from other kids at school and they’re unsure to some degree of what’s real or not…

    30. Thanks, Count. Once I read of his passing, I heard in my mind ” behind the bag, it gets by Buckner….” countless times. He announced the way Oscar Peterson played piano, letting silence enhance the notes he played.

    31. Lol, just want to win. Bragging rights over friends is worth any time investment

      Also don’t know crap about the NFL anymore so if there’s a better projection system, then it’d actually make it faster

      I figure someone here might know

    32. *He announced the way Oscar Peterson played piano, letting silence enhance the notes he played.*

      Very well put.

      In the ’86 WS Game 6 clip linked above, I love the way Vin lays out after Knight scores the winning run and defers instead to the images of the delirious crowd, ecstatic Mets, dejected BoSox, as well as a slo-mo replay of the ball trickling through Buckner’s legs. When he finally does speak again – after more than a minute and a half of silence – it’s to say “If a picture is worth a thousand words, you just saw about a million of them,” beautifully capturing the moment with just a single line of pure brilliance.

    33. Certainly spacing was awful last year. But RJ was part of the problem- having a 2/3 who opposing defenders sag off creates problems for everybody else. And that’s an issue going foward- is RJ’s ability to get downhill enough to make up for not getting floor spacing from a position where you normally do? He was below average from three last year but not awful and obviously he was really good the year before so nothing is set in stone- he’s not doomed to shrink the floor at this point- but he’s got to show some consistency there otherwise spacing will continue to be an issue.

    34. The only sports play by play guy that I could compare to the late Vin Scully would be Doc Emrick. I’m not even that much of a hockey fan, but watching him do play by play on national broadcasts was like listening to a virtuoso musician.

      (And his job is way harder than in any other sport due to the frenetic pace of a hockey game, and he still never misses a beat)

    35. Bill and Scully’s passing, as much as anything, remind me of all I have lived through in 64 years. It feels fortunate to have experienced their lives both in real time when I was too young to appreciate it, and now as they passed in ripe old age, and in their tributes. So much to take in…

    36. Are you implying that basketball is a team sport and the play of other players on the court affects an individual player’s stats and they don’t create those stats in a vaccuum?

      Exactly. Spot on. You don’t bet a promotion salary based on odds and stats, – although you analyze them and strongly consider the picture they paint. Our history of bad contracts has us suffer from paralysis by analysis. I understand why we feel this way. MVP type players are exceptions and by definition beat the odds. In other words, you bet on the person. Is RJ a 1st max type individual with the right intelligence, mental strength, physical and durable genetics?

      People who see him at work everyday would know better but from the outside, RJ is a legit pro; has both the demeaner and the character to continue to work and improve his craft so that his talents are maximized and ceiling reached. He will end up being our franchise player and among the Knick all time greats. Show RJ respect and pay the man his money as soon as this stare down with Danny Ainge is over.

      He earned his contract as a #3 pick. We had scrubs like Burks, Noel and Kemba making more than him last year. With the new projected cap, Dolan will probably pay a few scrubs more than him in 2027 too.

    37. If the Knicks lose a 1st round pick for tampering, it will be mostly the media’s fault for making such a big deal out of that signing. Everyone has a very good idea of who might and might not be available, which teams have needs at which positions, and the teams themselves know who they have a chance to sign and who they don’t. It’s all discussed openly and includes leaks from agents, team representatives, and other players. The only difference is there’s always a media frenzy attached to the Knicks. Did the Knicks sign his father as part of this? Probably in part. But he’s a long time associate of Thibs and they had coaching openings. Did father talk to son. Duh!!! Of course, anything other than that would have been nonsensical. If they want to take a 2nd rounder for “appearances sake” so be it, but the whole thing is a crock of crap.

    38. when intangibles and analytics don’t agree…

      after reading through this discussion over the last couple of days…i’d like to see him stay and would invest in his development further…

      they only thing that sticks with me is his 6’6″ height and lack of speed at small forward…he’s strong, and does appear consistent in his effort, if not his production…depending on reaching the rim when you don’t have speed and incredible balance seems like a hard way to go at 6’6″ 210 to 220 or so…we’ll see how much practice and determination can help raise his efficiency…

    39. I’m curious what everyone here would offer Barrett if forced to make some offer.

      4 years, $85MM (i.e. Lonzo Ball money). Then I trade him if he says no.

    40. Still say the way forward is for RJ to turn the 24% of his shots from 3-10ft into layups. He’ll need to drastically improve his shooting % from there otherwise.

      I’m more optimistic after seeing those numbers.

      Also hope Hart’s 3-ball is real. Not a long track record but he hit the few he took last year. Will open the paint for everyone.

    41. 4 years, $85MM (i.e. Lonzo Ball money). Then I trade him if he says no.

      Good comp, Hubert. Trade him for what exactly, though?

      RJ’s is slighltly a better talent than Lonzo but work ethic, focus on business instead of distractions and physical durability is significantly higher. Also, macroeconomic inflationary market pricing (cap increase) effects salary and this condition didn’t exist for Lonzo. Lastly, there are long term branding advantages to investing in home grown talent to consider.

      RJ is getting the max. Ayton got his and he plays center. We can get ahead of it, play the Suns game, let him walk or trade him for a different unkown. However, we can’t rationally expect to keep him and pay him less than his market value. Righfully so, this generation is not fooled by the home town discount at age 22 narrative.

    42. Early Bird
      August 3, 2022 at 3:40 pm
      Still say the way forward is for RJ to turn the 24% of his shots from 3-10ft into layups. He’ll need to drastically improve his shooting % from there otherwise.

      Unless he suddenly morphs into Giannis that ain’t happening. Better spacing would certainly help some but rather than turning those 3-10’s into layups (a really tough proposition given his lack of explosion) a more likely road to improvement would be to just not take so many. That’s tough too- he’s either not recognizing rotating help or vastly overrating his own ability to finish in traffic or a probably a bit of both- but at 21 his decision making seems likely to improve. I think he chased 20 ppg last year to his own detriment- if he accepts a role as a 20-24% usage tertiary option I think the numbers are going to look a lot better even if his shooting doesn’t improve that much. Can the Maple Mamba accept that in contract year? If he does that’d go a long way towards me buying his long term prospects- I think he needs to better balance who he wants to be vs. who he actually is.

    43. The best way to handle the RJ situation would be to let him hit restricted FA and match/don’t match depending on the offer and his development. It’s unlikely RJ and his management team would take a chance on the one year QO due to all the uncertainty involved. But if they do, who cares? The Knicks will still be able to offer him the most money/years or they can trade him if he’s not amenable to an extension.

      The Knicks shouldn’t be concerned about hurting RJ’s feelings by not offering the max extension. Make him earn it. I think a few here have overstated how much a move like this could ‘poison the well’ as far as getting other players to sign with the Knicks. The best way to lure FAs will be by having a sustainably good team and the cap room to sign them. RJ Barrett being treated ‘unfairly’ is not going to be the make-or-break reason the Knicks land a top FA or not.

      Paying RJ the max and having him continue to play like a mediocrity is not likely to draw any top FAs either.

    44. Ayton is better than RJ. It’s not close. Ayton doesn’t post much, but his PPP is very good there.

      If you look at all of our non-center vets these are their 2pt%’s last year compared to their average of the 4 seasons before last year:

      Fournier – 46.5% (in 21-22) – 51.5% (avg 4 years previous)
      Randle – 45.8% (in 21-22) – 53.2% (avg 4 years previous)
      Burks – 37.8% (in 21-22) – 43.6% (avg 4 years previous)
      Walker – 44.4% (in 21-22) – 48.2% (avg 4 years previous)
      Rose – 46.7% (in 21-22) – 51.0% (avg 4 years previous)

      On average our vets shot 5.3% worse on 2-point shots last year than in their previous 4 years.

      Hope you’re right. But you expect 30yr olds to convert at the rim and get to the rim less often than in their late 20s. Randle changed his game significantly from his NOP & LAL days. Previously he took nearly 50% of his shots at the rim. On the Knicks he’s taken 25%.

      Weirdly Randle’s best Knicks season came while taking only 16% of his shots at the rim.

    45. While looking at Randle’s numbers I also did some math:

      Randle had his worst shooting season from 3-16ft last year. The 3 previous years he shot over 40%.

      Taking Randle’s 4yr average, you’d expect a .553 TS% last year given his shot distribution. Below average, but significantly better than the .509 TS% he put up.

      I think he chased 20 ppg last year to his own detriment- if he accepts a role as a 20-24% usage tertiary option I think the numbers are going to look a lot better even if his shooting doesn’t improve that much.

      RJ had a .513 TS% on 26.1% USG prior to the all-start break. He had a .507 TS% on 31% USG after the all-star break.

      RJ had a stomach bug prior to the AS Break, factor that how you will, but the numbers do not indicate that RJ would be significantly better on lower usage.

      Flattening 3p%, he was actually more efficient post-AS break. Maybe a good thing?

    46. Greek August tips

      Athens is a huge city for a small country like Greece and is very crowded almost all year… except August!
      That’s why August despite the Heavy Heat is possibly the best month to visit and enjoy the city.

      Also…
      August 15 or Dekapentavgoustos is one of the most important dates in the Greek Orthodox Calendar, as the Feast of the Dormition of the Theotokos is celebrated. It is a national and religious holiday and the country is transformed into one big church festival.

    47. RJ is getting the max. Ayton got his and he plays center.

      1. Ayton is very good.

      2. Ayton didn’t get the max that the Suns could offer. He got the max that the Pacers could, which saved the Suns one year and $40mm.

      3. If RJ can find a team to offer him 4 years, $130mm like Ayton did, god bless him.

    48. Early Bird: RJ had a .513 TS% on 26.1% USG prior to the all-start break. He had a .507 TS% on 31% USG after the all-star break.

      RJ had a stomach bug prior to the AS Break, factor that how you will, but the numbers do not indicate that RJ would be significantly better on lower usage.

      I think he was chasing 20 ppg all year- he said that was one of his goals coming into the season. Even in the first half his usage was up from the prior year despite adding Fournier and Kemba. The year prior- with lower usage- his 2 pt fg% was .457 while last year, with an improved right hand (not great but better!) and some added change of pace stuff he actually shot worse from two at .442%. Spacing issues were part of it but there were way too many one on twos in transition, head down drives straight into help, etc… for a guy who seems to have a decent basketball IQ.

    49. growing up in phoenix in the 70’s…and being a yankee fan…it was like the best you could do was a box score in the paper…but we did get on am radio depending on the wind…some of the Dodger broadcasts and even though i hate the dodgers…i loved listening to Vin Scully…actually…whenever I heard his voice I always think of this
      https://www.facebook.com/TopDeckMinistries/videos/vin-scully-for-farmer-john-1990/2913499905597987/

      made me want to eat a dog….that was a big brand in Phoenix back in the day…

      on another note…seems like a few lawyers on this site…i saw the NFLPA is going to sue the NFL in court over them appealing the Watson suspension decision…i thought if the rule that Goodell will oversee any appeal (or his handpicked person) is collectively bargained…than they (NFLPA) can’t sue given they agreed to it…is that not correct?

    50. i’m not a lawyer, but i’ll guess at the answer being both yes and no…

      yes in that my understanding is that the disciplinary resolution process is agreed upon by both sides in some kind of written/signed/legally semi-binding document…

      no in that i think in law you can pretty much do just about anything, whether or not it works, another story…

    51. Vin Scully did both play-by-play and color commentary simultaneously, and his work was simulcast on television and radio for every game. He was ubiquitous, and his voice transcended the game (how many baseball movies has he set the tone for too? Probably dozens). Though I thought he’d passed away years ago (they don’t usually name streets after living people, do they?) I will go ahead and mourn him all over again.

    52. who smokes that much flower these days?

      thinking fondly back to the old days of “brick” weed…yeah, it would take about six ounces of that stuff to get you high…

      risky behavior is traveling with a few pre-rolls wrapped tight and maybe a vape…shoot you can carry a whole lot of gummies before that would even get noticed…that much flower though has gotta smell something fierce, wouldn’t take no dog either to catch a whiff…

      maybe iman thought it was still like 2012 or something…

      caught the first handful of episodes of Reservation Dogs…it’s okay, light and humorous so far…

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