Knicks Morning News (2022.08.02)

  • BREAKING: Boston Celtics Sign Former 9th Overall Pick – Sports Illustrated
    [www.si.com] — Monday, August 1, 2022 9:00:11 PM

    BREAKING: Boston Celtics Sign Former 9th Overall Pick  Sports Illustrated

  • Jazz reportedly asked Knicks about package with RJ Barrett and Mitchell Robinson – Daily Knicks
    [dailyknicks.com] — Monday, August 1, 2022 5:00:00 PM

    Jazz reportedly asked Knicks about package with RJ Barrett and Mitchell Robinson  Daily Knicks

  • $1.1 Billion Knicks’ high-headed executives passed on 7’2″ Kareem Abdul-Jabbar because of excessive pride – The Sportsrush
    [thesportsrush.com] — Monday, August 1, 2022 1:30:46 PM

    $1.1 Billion Knicks’ high-headed executives passed on 7’2″ Kareem Abdul-Jabbar because of excessive pride  The Sportsrush

  • Report: NBA to investigate Knicks for alleged tampering in FA signing of Brunson – TSN
    [www.tsn.ca] — Monday, August 1, 2022 11:23:47 AM

    Report: NBA to investigate Knicks for alleged tampering in FA signing of Brunson  TSN

  • NBA opens tampering investigation into Knicks’ signing of Jalen Brunson – Hoops Hype
    [hoopshype.com] — Monday, August 1, 2022 11:09:33 AM

    NBA opens tampering investigation into Knicks’ signing of Jalen Brunson  Hoops Hype

  • Season Membership – NBA.com
    [www.nba.com] — Monday, August 1, 2022 10:38:33 AM

    Season Membership  NBA.com

  • Past and Present Knicks Pay Tribute to Bill Russell – Yardbarker
    [www.yardbarker.com] — Monday, August 1, 2022 10:02:41 AM

    Past and Present Knicks Pay Tribute to Bill Russell  Yardbarker

  • 3 Isaiah Hartenstein stats that Knicks fans will love – Daily Knicks
    [dailyknicks.com] — Monday, August 1, 2022 8:00:00 AM

    3 Isaiah Hartenstein stats that Knicks fans will love  Daily Knicks

  • Former Duke star RJ Barrett’s contract extension tied up with potential Knicks trade – 247Sports
    [247sports.com] — Monday, August 1, 2022 7:43:08 AM

    Former Duke star RJ Barrett’s contract extension tied up with potential Knicks trade  247Sports

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    56 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2022.08.02)”

    1. Looking at all the RJ posts, especially cybersoze’s it seems like RJ isn’t good enough for a max extension yet. The Knicks could wait and see or they could maybe negotiate something smaller. Which would you recommend?

      It’s always interesting to project how a player can develop and from what i’ve read in the last thread, the range of outcomes looks very wide right now. He can be a rich man’s Alec Burks and he can get to max status, meaning he’s very hard to project. And please don’t be fooled by Hollinger’s article, he was focused on the possible extension in 27 or 28, and who cares about that? If RJ is a max player by then, we’ll pay the price. Paying the max now, for a possible future saving seems stupid to me. With that out of the way, my projections are that the cap will rise by 10% each year, except in 26 when the new TV deal will be in place, i’m projecting 20% that year and then get back to 10%. The problem with a max that Hollinger didn’t explain, because it was not the intent of the article, is that if you sign your own player to a rookie max extension, you have 8% increases each year, which means only in 26 (w/ the tv deal) you’d be saving some money, and not a lot. On a max he’d get 21.7% and 21.3% of the cap on the last 2 years. A clear overpay, if he only reaches Alec Burks level. The total value would be 199.5M across 5 years. How can we protect ourselves from this? If we wait for next year, even if RJ receives a max offer from another team, he’ll be paid 146.5M across 4 years (they can only offer 4 years with 5% increases). And we match it, just like the Suns did with Ayton.
      What i’d do now, because of the cap projections, is offer him a 5/150M deal and he can have a player option on the last year of the contract (it’s about the same as John Collins’ money, taking into account the cap increase). This way he’s guaranteed to get 150M, which is probably what he’s searching for. (cont)

    2. (cont) I’d structure the contract decreasing, to be 32M + 31M + 30M + 29M + 28M. If he’s much improved, he opts out. The max from another team pays him more money across 4 years, but this contract guarantees him a little more money. If he accepts this, he’ll be making 18% of the cap on the 3rd year, 15% on the 4th and 13% on the last year. Even if RJ doesn’t develop into a star, i think his floor is a solid NBA rotation player and at this amount of cap space he’ll be tradable.
      So to recap, my option would be to offer him a 5/150M right now and if he doesn’t take it, wait for next summer and then match whatever offer sheet he gets.

    3. In Greece until the 15th. Athens now, then Paros, Karpathos, and Ios. Any recommendations? KYN?

    4. Was in Athens a year ago so these recs might skew touristy, but pretty well traveled. I think the best touristy fun crowd pleaser food is LUKUMADES Eolou 21, & Aghias Irinis Str, Athina 105 51, Greece. They get a bit extra with the flavor combos but i mean you’re not going to find Lukumades like that anywhere else, and they do traditional Greek stuff like Mastica and Sour Cherry.

      Best food in Athens was at LIONDI Traditional Greek Restaurant Makrigianni 19-21, Athina 117 41, Greece. They kept weird hours with the heat wave, but the food was worth making the time. It’s easy to get tempted by all the spots on the street trying to bark for customers, and others are also quite good and homey, but Liondi is a cut above. They have a sampler for two where you get a portion of everything, best Moussaka of my life. Too much food ha.

    5. Old Psara’s Tavern is romantic al fresco dining, especially at night with the string lights, but the food didn’t really have anything that set it apart. But it was solid, just more for the ambiance. Supposedly the oldest restaurant though for whatever that’s worth to you.

    6. For the islands we did Naxos and Santorini so I don’t have anything for you there. You might find the KTEL buses to be easier to navigate, but one thing that really worked out for us was renting a scooter, it’s pretty fun and way easier and more independent imo.

    7. We did a day trip from Athens to Lake Vouliagmeni which is doable by bus. I would say it’s worth it if you have time and have had your fill of Athens, but there’s really a ton to do. We just needed a break from the heat ha, and it’s nice to get out of the city into nature.

    8. If you want to try Greek coffee MOKKA SPECIALTY COFFEE S.A. Athinas 44, Athina 105 51, Greece Does it old school in the hot sand. It’s right by a market that is cool to stroll through and check out.

    9. My aunt spent an hour telling me about her trip to Greece at a wedding earlier this summer. She managed to convey zero useful suggestions over the entire hour. However, I do know there’s a random plaque with my great-grandfather’s name on it and that she has 400 pictures of it. Give or take 1, maybe 2.

    10. you have to account for the fact hat a max to rj isn’t a true max either by the time the new tv deal kicks in

      I don’t think you do.

      Latke made this point well yesterday: you shouldn’t pay 30% over market value for a house today just because inflation is rising.

      I like RJ and I would be happy to bet on him. Giving him Mikal Bridges or Keldon Johnson money is a significant bet, one that he could reasonably not live up to. If his ego can’t handle the truth, good bye.

      It would be pathetic to max him because we don’t want to hurt his feelings. This is Porzingis, part 2, i.e. a good player who wants a salary that he hasn’t come close to earning, and who will become an albatross if he ever gets it.

    11. I’m not sure if it’s just posturing, but I sense a change in the narrative from “Mitchell is eventually going to NY and it’s just a matter tough negotiations” to “a deal may not get done”. I hope that’s the case. I want to run this team back as is with the possible exception of Randle if a deal with LA can be worked out that makes sense.

    12. Kalyvas Family Grill
      Dimitrakopoulou 91-93, G Olymbiou 10, Athina 117 41, Greece

      Great gyros and souvlaki, but I’m sure you’ve already found several places where that’s the case.

    13. Interesting that Hubert mentions KP. Never thought about in the context of RJ, because they are so different. But why was I so against maxing KP when I am on the fence with RJ? RJ being a worse player vs KP’s injury/injury proness? Don’t think so. KP’s primadonnaness vs. RJ’s I want to improveness? Most likely. So much for my belief that stats rule my thinking…

    14. “Latke made this point well yesterday: you shouldn’t pay 30% over market value for a house today just because inflation is rising.”

      That’s what I was saying all day yesterday, but it got lost in the translation because I used our overpay of Lee and Noah as an example. Sure there are differences in age, but we also paid for cap inflation that never occurred and then got stuck with older guys with bad contracts instead of just older guys.

      The idea is to try not to pay up for projections in either player development or salary cap increases. Most of the time, some player development has to be built in or your will lose every decent young player you draft (the teen draft issue I always talk about), but if you start including cap increases into the calculations on top of that to justify your overpay you are taking multiple risks and are way more likely to get a bad result.

      It seems to me, there are mitigating circumstances with RJ due to our team construction. IMO we have to see more.

    15. I’ve said it a million times, the KP question was almost entirely about injuries. Other than that, we should have kept him. If we chose to trade him because the doctors said the injury risks were too high, it should not have been for cap space hoping to attract stars to a trash team plus mediocre picks. We should have maximized the return in terms of quality and picks and let guys like Lee, Hardaway Jr, and Noah slowly roll off the cap.

      KP has been injured repeatedly since then. That hurt his productivity and development. But he’s still a better offensive player now than he was in NY. He showed signs of improved playmaking last year and started to recover his movement on defensive a bit too. It will probably all blow up again, but had he stayed relatively healthy there’s almost no doubt he’d be a fairly consistent all star.

    16. @Bern

      We had a winning team the year before last, and we will be operating as an above the cap team. That matters. Also establishing durability and not being an injury risk is a huge factor. KP had chugged the unicorn hype kool aid. But if we somehow time shifted him forward 4 years, there would be a better argument to maxing him on this team than back in 2018/19.

    17. RJ & Porzingis are surprisingly similar, actually. Both drafted by previous regimes. One at #3, one at #4. Both were bitter consolation prizes after missing out on KAT and Zion.

      Porzingis was significantly better than RJ, though.You can look at it through their first 3 seasons or you can be favorable to RJ and just look at their age 20 & 21 seasons. Either way, it’s very clear: RJ is not close to as good as Porzingis was.

      RJ’s durability is obviously an X factor. But playing all the time only helps if you’re actually good at it.

    18. and we will be operating as an above the cap team. That matters.

      Ah, see, *HERE* is where we need to factor in the cap rise.

      Instead of saying “Paying RJ $30MM won’t hurt that much when the cap is $200MM”, the argument should be “we shouldn’t assume we’ll be an above the cap team when the cap is rising to $200MM.”

      We all know RJ will never deliver surplus value on a max contract. He is also unlikely to even deliver market value. This is a no brainer.

      Lonzo Ball was a #2 pick and outperformed RJ, and he had to settle for 4 years, $85MM. There is no reason for RJ to think he deserves more.

    19. I’ve said it a million times, the KP question was almost entirely about injuries. Other than that, we should have kept him. If we chose to trade him because the doctors said the injury risks were too high, it should not have been for cap space hoping to attract stars to a trash team plus mediocre picks. We should have maximized the return in terms of quality and picks and let guys like Lee, Hardaway Jr, and Noah slowly roll off the cap.

      Porzingis forced the trade. The Knicks had virtually no leverage — either trade him or he’ll walk for nothing.

      And yes, it’s a shame that two major signings turned into salary-matching, and the other one was stretched for no reason at all aside from win-now aspirations. But that’s what’s goink to happen when you waste cap space on the NBA’s middle class in hope that they’ll outperform their contracts during their decline phases.

    20. So the Padres, huh?

      I recently got an office in La Jolla. I have not been yet, but I rented a place from mid October to mid December. I hadn’t planned on going to a baseball game, but now…

    21. What can I say. Good job Leon!

      Two years ago we had Elfrid Payton as our starting PG and we were the 4 seed. He gave us 15 minutes of pretty good defense and then gave way to Derrick Rose who was electrifying. Julius was his best self on the floor with someone who made gravity. So was RJ. We were hoping it would be even better last year but Kemba flopped, on defense especially, and Derrick got hurt.

      So, in comes Brunson and back comes Derrick. Let’s run this thing back. Obi, IQ, Grimes, Hartenstein off the bench. Vamos. If we bomb, we have our protected and unprotected picks and we may do better than Frank Ntilikina next time.

      The trade market is way too overheated. Ainge did a # on the Twolves and he wanted to hit another grandslam at Jimmy D’s expense. Let a trade come around that makes sense for US. We’re ready.

    22. Hubert, I have lived close by in Salona Beach and Cardiff at various points in time for various inexplicable reasons. A weirdly sterile, soul-less place, possibly because it is one long stretch of upper-class suburbia with all that implies, but man is it beautiful all the same. Get out and about, there are lots of secret spots of beauty hidden away.

    23. I recently got an office in La Jolla.

      look at you hubie, you living right, or at least making a good living off of what you doing :)

      seriously though, spot in the city, beautiful reason to spend time in south florida – and – now a spot/reason to be in la jolla…

      i may just have to put aside my donnie disciplement and starting honoring at my home hubie shrine more frequently…

      who would have guessed that life would progress so well for a former international male model…

    24. i hope your spot got a couch…i’m coming to visit :)

      visited a friend over in del mar (san diego state has a great arena to see a show at, we saw tool there), every other business seemed to be a brewery, nice stretch of beach…there was a like brewery every other business location seemed to be a brewery)…

      the thing i liked most – there was no public transit in to the area…

    25. every other business seemed to be a brewery, nice stretch of beach…there was a like brewery every other business location seemed to be a brewery)…

      that moment when the drugs you took an hour ago start really kicking in…

      just wondering, seeing a lot of advertisements for Reservation Dogs – anyone take a peek at the show?

    26. Hubert
      August 2, 2022 at 1:44 pm
      So the Padres, huh?

      I recently got an office in La Jolla. I have not been yet, but I rented a place from mid October to mid December. I hadn’t planned on going to a baseball game, but now…

      La Jolla? Very nice, the rent must be pretty pricey. I’m in University City, just east of there.
      Padres going all in on Juan Soto and Josh Bell, very exciting. That certainly brightens the outlook for the rest of the season. So this is what it feels like to have ownership that is willing to spend big? Not used to that here in San Diego, the desert wasteland of sports fandom….

    27. #In Greece until the 15th. Athens now, then Paros, Karpathos, and Ios. Any recommendations? KYN?#

      WOW! WELCOME!
      Especially in Athens there are too many places to go and see that depends entirely on your mood but i could give a few ideas mainly in the center of the city:
      Museums:
      – Parthenon (MUST) and Acropolis Museum
      – Benaki Museum – Free admissions on Thursdays!
      (on Vasilissis Sofias Avenue, a ten minute walk from Syntagma Square)

      Street Food
      For Souvlaki
      Kostas – Plateia (Square) Aghias Eirinis
      Lefteris o politis – Romvis 18
      Lefteris o politis – Satovriandou 20 (close to “Stani”)

      Sweats
      -Loukoumades that BJ recommended at Plateia Aghias Eirinis also
      and
      -Galaktomboureko or Millefeuille or both at
      “Stani” close to Omonoia square (Marikas Kotopouli 10 / ugly neighborhood but Top galaktomboureko!)

      Flea Market
      Monastiraki and Plaka area especially on Sundays

      Haven’t been to Paros but i know that it’s TOP Destination without Mykonos or Santorini’s fame.

      Been to Ios 25yrs ago when the island had the fame of the “alternative/indie/rock” place. Great for partying till the morning!

      Karpathos! How!? Not so usual summer destination but as every greek island expect for the best!

      I Hope You Have a Great Time and If you need any help let me know.

      HAVE FUN!

    28. Yes Kostas tried to get a gyro there a couple times but they were always closed. I definitely second Lefteris.

    29. Interesting southern suburbs to visit close to the sea: Piraeus, Glyfada, Palaio Faliro
      Orher suburbs for food, nightlife, shopping:
      Halandri, Kifisia, Ambelokipoi

    30. #Yes Kostas tried to get a gyro there a couple times but they were always closed. I definitely second Lefteris.#

      You probably tried the same period i did cause i found it closed multiple times but now it’s open…for good!
      And it doesn’t serve gyro. As also Lefteris.
      They serve ONLY 2 or 3 kinds of souvlaki or kebab as they call it but NO Gyro there!

    31. Sadly, I’ve never been to Greece. However, some years ago I had the pleasure of going to a Greek Orthodox wedding. My teaching friend Katherine Psihogios’s daughter’s wedding.

      Also sadly, just a couple of years ago that same daughter greeted me at Katherine’s receiving of friends following her death.

    32. Kostas
      There’s one more Souvlaki place called Kostas that is in Pentelis street number 5 close to Syntagma square.
      The souvlaki there is Top too but it’s only open for a few hours till noon and you may have to wait a bit to order cause it’s always crowded.

    33. i can’t remember another team going on this big a shopping spree over just a few years period of time…the padres have spent some crazy baseball money…

      i like their stadium, it’s cozy, good food and a really chilled crowd…

    34. every other business seemed to be a brewery, nice stretch of beach…there was a like brewery every other business location seemed to be a brewery)…

      that moment when the drugs you took an hour ago start really kicking in…

      You’re just demonstrating how prevalent the breweries are by writing brewery every other word.

      just wondering, seeing a lot of advertisements for Reservation Dogs – anyone take a peek at the show?

      I’ve heard good things, haven’t watched it yet

    35. -Hubert

      Ah, see, *HERE* is where we need to factor in the cap rise.

      Instead of saying “Paying RJ $30MM won’t hurt that much when the cap is $200MM”, the argument should be “we shouldn’t assume we’ll be an above the cap team when the cap is rising to $200MM.”

      This is an interesting point that I had also thought about, but what is your reasonable path forward where we get appreciably under the new cap? What contracts are coming off the books and not getting replaced with a similar contract? What years are you not using cap exceptions to add players, and why? How much are you budgeting for Quickley, Obi, and Grimes, and are you really okay with them leaving for no return? (Technically a return of 4-6.8 mil per player) Not to mention McBride or Sims.
      To me for it to be worth it to try to be an under the cap team you need to get far enough under cap to add a meaningful max contract. Current projections with a 75b TV contract peg the cap at 175 million. A smoothed cap increase with the same 75 billion TV deal would be something lower than that. So at 175 mil a 35% max would be 59.85 mil. So we’d have to be below 115 mil. Our current cap spend is 138.86 mil. Next year increase that by whatever you give RJ over 10.9 and whatever you give Cam over 6. You could decline Rose for 16 mil in “savings”, but it doesn’t get you appreciably under the cap so you’re better off keeping Rose if he’s productive, or trading that salary and assets for an effective player, preferably consolidating contracts. But if the idea of this team is to build a winning team, there is no incentive to reduce salary over the short term, and a cap increase isn’t going to be big enough to make usable space on its own.

    36. -Hubert

      Latke made this point well yesterday: you shouldn’t pay 30% over market value for a house today just because inflation is rising.

      What if you have access to a loan that can only be spent on one property? And if you don’t invest that money not only do you lose access to the potential rental income and value appreciation, the money will just go to James Dylan’s bank account?

    37. Thanks, Knew Your Knicks!

      Well, the Mets didn’t do anything stupid, nor anything bold. Getting deGrom back is a pretty nice addition, though.

    38. Going to be in Greece too! Mostly northern Greece though. First visit to the homeland with the kids.

      Have a great trip TNFH! Much better to do post college I suspect but maybe I will be surprised.

    39. My take on RJ’s case is that part of a team’s culture is the way it treats its players.
      RJ is not a house or a lotto ticket but a human being with feelings and psychology.
      Giving him money he don’t deserve yet may ain’t fair or smart but also treating him as just an asset and not as part of a healthy family type team culture won’t be ideal.
      Betting on his growth shows trust and trust creates Loyalty and Safety.
      If the player is malakas tho it can create Laziness!
      Psychology Matters MUCH imo.

    40. WOW! KB in full Greek Mode!
      Zeus is doing his tricks!

      Wish You a great journey too, Owen!

    41. It’s a long time between now and the cap raise. We could sign or acquire contracts that expire in the year of the cap raise. Lots of players may seek contracts that end that FA period, expecting a large salary increase.

      We don’t know what our cap situation will be, but smaller contracts are easier to maneuver.

    42. Way i see the RJ case it’s not about the money but mostly about the player.
      After three yrs of playing for Your Team You should be definitely able to tell if he’s a keeper or a gtfoh-er.
      If he’s a keeper just pay the guy
      If Not…Bye Bye my darling bye….

    43. Here’s where RJ ranked in a bunch of catch all metrics.

      EPM – 257
      BPM – 144
      DARKO – 268
      LEBRON – 349′

      I understand these leave a lot out. Age, minutes played, RJ’s role on the Knicks, the ill fitting roster he was playing on, etc etc. But the point is at this point in his career RJ has been a bad NBA player. You have to really dig into his production to see any improvement in his game in 3 years. His ballhandling and playmaking have slightly improved. His shot selection is a bit better, and he’s become a better 3 point shooter and FT shooter. His finishing at his mid-range game haven’t improved at all. Giving him max or near max money is a bet that he is going to significantly improve things he hasn’t improved in 3 years. It could definitely happen but I certainly wouldn’t make that bet now.

    44. I’ve noticed that RJ has been particularly bad in Nov and Dec? For his career he is sifnificanty better after New Years Day. If you’re an optimist you might think that this is due to adding new things to his game each year and taking a while to get comfortable with it…

    45. Calling RJ a bad player according to analytics may be a thing.
      But
      according to the psychedelic eyes of a die hard nyk fan from Souvlakistan he ain’t bad, just inconsistent.
      Who deserves and gets the max money after the rookie contract?
      The player who has the X character and who’s projected to do the Y stuff on the court

      Can RJ fulfill these two, dear Knicks FO?
      Yes – Max
      No – Trade
      Maybe – Trade

    46. The other thing with RJ is that it’s unlikely he’s going to get off 17 shots a game this coming year, especially if they get Mitchell. As such, he will have to get better at other things like rebounding and defense.

      But becoming more of a third option could be great for RJ by taking the pressure off him to be a young mega-star and just letting him be a good all-around player.

      Also, I think the stuff about RJ insisting on the max is overblown. I think both sides will eventually work together to create a fair, sustainable contract.

    47. RJ: I want the Max!
      JackLeon: You can’t handle the Max!
      RJ: But I’m a 20/6/3 wannabe all-star!
      Leon: Not according to analytics! You’re Trash!

    48. Nfh:
      Athenian streets and areas of interesting strolling around, coffee/food, shopping

      Ermou street
      Dionysiou Areopagitou
      Kolonaki area
      Monastiraki area
      Plaka
      Athinas street
      Aiolou street
      Syntagma area
      Exarchia area (with caution)
      Omonoia area (with caution)

      Metro is a good way to check the city

    49. Thanks so much BJ and KYN, this blog is truly the best. Will have to get to as many of those places as I can.

      Went to the Parthenon and the museum yesterday and it was an awesome experience, loving Athens in general.

      Re: Karpathos, I’m with a friend whose family is from there and we’re staying with them to save some money towards the end of the trip.

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