Knicks Morning News (2022.05.20)

  • Two-way player Dyson Daniels intriguing option for Knicks – New York Post
    [nypost.com] — Thursday, May 19, 2022 10:25:00 PM

    Two-way player Dyson Daniels intriguing option for Knicks  New York Post

  • ‘Batman’ Robert Pattinson, Who Had Just Become Single, Got Distracted By Knicks Cheerleaders During an NBA Game – EssentiallySports
    [www.essentiallysports.com] — Thursday, May 19, 2022 10:00:00 PM

    ‘Batman’ Robert Pattinson, Who Had Just Become Single, Got Distracted By Knicks Cheerleaders During an NBA Game  EssentiallySports

  • Bennedict Mathurin could form Canadian pipeline alongside RJ Barrett – New York Post
    [nypost.com] — Thursday, May 19, 2022 9:31:00 PM

    Bennedict Mathurin could form Canadian pipeline alongside RJ Barrett  New York Post

  • Trae Young Discusses New York Knicks Fans – Sports Illustrated
    [www.si.com] — Thursday, May 19, 2022 8:36:07 PM

    Trae Young Discusses New York Knicks Fans  Sports Illustrated

  • Tim Hardaway, ex-Knicks foe, joining team ? as a scout – New York Post
    [nypost.com] — Thursday, May 19, 2022 7:28:00 PM

    Tim Hardaway, ex-Knicks foe, joining team ? as a scout  New York Post

  • Knicks must go all out to land Jalen Brunson in free agency – New York Post
    [nypost.com] — Thursday, May 19, 2022 7:08:00 PM

    Knicks must go all out to land Jalen Brunson in free agency  New York Post

  • Knicks Trade Rumors: Pacers’ Malcolm Brogdon Drawing ‘Some Interest’ from NY – Bleacher Report
    [bleacherreport.com] — Thursday, May 19, 2022 6:33:24 PM

    Knicks Trade Rumors: Pacers’ Malcolm Brogdon Drawing ‘Some Interest’ from NY  Bleacher Report

  • New York Knicks interested in Malcolm Brogdon trade: 2 ideal scenarios – Sportsnaut
    [sportsnaut.com] — Thursday, May 19, 2022 6:13:33 PM

    New York Knicks interested in Malcolm Brogdon trade: 2 ideal scenarios  Sportsnaut

  • Why Knicks Should Pursue Trade For Hornets’ Gordon Hayward – NBA Analysis Network
    [www.nbaanalysis.net] — Thursday, May 19, 2022 5:15:42 PM

    Why Knicks Should Pursue Trade For Hornets’ Gordon Hayward  NBA Analysis Network

  • A semi-irrational reaction to absurd proposed Bleacher Report trade involving Knicks – Daily Knicks
    [dailyknicks.com] — Thursday, May 19, 2022 5:00:00 PM

    A semi-irrational reaction to absurd proposed Bleacher Report trade involving Knicks  Daily Knicks

  • Buddy Boeheim Dazzles From Deep at Knicks Workout – Sports Illustrated
    [www.si.com] — Thursday, May 19, 2022 4:34:33 PM

    Buddy Boeheim Dazzles From Deep at Knicks Workout  Sports Illustrated

  • Johnny Davis Could Provide Guard Help for Knicks at 11 – The Knicks Wall
    [theknickswall.com] — Thursday, May 19, 2022 1:33:08 PM

    Johnny Davis Could Provide Guard Help for Knicks at 11  The Knicks Wall

  • Putting the young Knicks in context – Posting and Toasting
    [www.postingandtoasting.com] — Thursday, May 19, 2022 1:27:42 PM

    Putting the young Knicks in context  Posting and Toasting

  • Knicks Stealing Jalen Brunson From Luka Doncic’s Mavs? ‘A Shock,’ Says Insider – Sports Illustrated
    [www.si.com] — Thursday, May 19, 2022 10:56:40 AM

    Knicks Stealing Jalen Brunson From Luka Doncic’s Mavs? ‘A Shock,’ Says Insider  Sports Illustrated

  • Sandiford-Artest Believes in New York Knicks Future – Here’s Why – Yardbarker
    [www.yardbarker.com] — Thursday, May 19, 2022 10:37:59 AM

    Sandiford-Artest Believes in New York Knicks Future – Here’s Why  Yardbarker

  • Artest Believes in Knicks Future – Here’s Why – Sports Illustrated
    [www.si.com] — Thursday, May 19, 2022 10:28:42 AM

    Artest Believes in Knicks Future – Here’s Why  Sports Illustrated

  • Knicks’ Hypothetical Blockbuster Trades to Shake Up NBA Offseason – Bleacher Report
    [bleacherreport.com] — Thursday, May 19, 2022 9:00:03 AM

    Knicks’ Hypothetical Blockbuster Trades to Shake Up NBA Offseason  Bleacher Report

  • NBA Rumors: Latest Buzz on Deandre Ayton Contract, 76ers’ Doc Rivers and More – Bleacher Report
    [bleacherreport.com] — Thursday, May 19, 2022 9:00:00 AM

    NBA Rumors: Latest Buzz on Deandre Ayton Contract, 76ers’ Doc Rivers and More  Bleacher Report

  • How an iconic Knicks-Heat playoff brawl changed NBA history – New York Post
    [nypost.com] — Thursday, May 19, 2022 8:20:00 AM

    How an iconic Knicks-Heat playoff brawl changed NBA history  New York Post

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    110 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2022.05.20)”

    1. From the last thread.

      Frank:
      Morning all – I am sure this will get swallowed up by the next thread, but such is my schedule.

      First- congratulations on graduation from law school TNFH!My brother is an NYU Law alum, hope for much success for you in the future.

      Second – not sure if people have heard it yet, but Berman was on the Locked on Knicks podcast that dropped this AM, and he had a bunch of nuggets in there:
      – does not expect the Knicks to bring Mitch back — says the Knicks don’t want to pay such a limited offensive player that kind of $, think Noel Sims could do much of what Mitch can do, continues to float Myles Turner (or Brogdon) as potential acquisitions.Also says Mitch may want a change of scenery
      – does not expect the Knicks to get Brunson – thinks he will be out of the price range at which the Knicks can make it happen, since he expects Cuban to pay him appropriately
      – says Thibs may be a goner by ASB this year unless the Knicks start really well – and that Johnny Bryant would be next man up.
      – thinks unlikely the Knicks will trade up in the draft as the consensus seems to be 1-5 picks are one tier and after that it gets pretty flat.
      – thinks Mathurin will be gone by 11. Still thinks Dyson Daniels is a reasonable possibility (I would be happy with this!)
      – was sort of ambivalent about Randle – seems to think there is some chance he comes back after taking some time off.But also that the Knicks seem comfortable with idea of Toppin as the PF of the future.

    2. Frank is good people. He visited me yesterday after my surgery — a surgery I only got because he hooked me up with a colleague.

    3. Ok so..I have a couple questions:
      1. If Mitch leaves, do we trust Noel’s health and draft Sotto in the 2nd and roll with a center rotation of Noel/Sims/Taj/Sotto?
      2. If Mathurin and Daniels are both there at 11, who’s the pick? Honestly, I think that if the team moves on from Fournier and keeps Randle to start, then a starting backcourt of Quickley and Daniels works.

      I still want to keep Fournier though. I just love his mentality and shot. Again- we don’t need Orlando Fournier. We just need him to get his touches and get an easy 15-4-4 on great shooting. And no one can convince me that he can’t do that on this team. I don’t think Julius and Fournier are a good match because Julius needs a Bullock type who can’t do much with the ball so he can feel free to dominate it. It worked for him in his all star season. Holy shit..just typing that made me realize how bad that looks because it means Julius has an issue sharing the ball with guys who can actually get their own shot. Yeesh

    4. Jesus, Alan, hope you are ok.

      I’m not a big Thibs guy, but idk how you can pin a lot of this on him when the FO makes moves like letting Mitch walk for nothing.

      Meanwhile, I agree with most of Z-Man’s points on Mitch, but that is still a lot of rebounding/defense to replace. Maybe this means they will pick Duren/Williams at 11?

    5. If we are letting Mitch go I hope we at least are smart enough to do a sign and trade so we get something back. Mitch will have suitors for sure. But maybe he’ll be back.

    6. The fact that he wasn’t traded probably speaks to how KB Mitch stans have an inflated sense of his value around the league.

      This could be right. Or it could also speak to Leon Rose’s inability to think long term and execute a coherent strategy.

      I think right now there is more evidence that Leon can’t think two steps ahead than there is that the league doesn’t value Mitch. But we will get our answer when free agency starts.

    7. Mitch is great, but he has serious flaws… the ft shooting in particular. He might not get an offer over 13 mil AAV.

      What this team needs more than anything is efficient scoring/shooting, and it’s hard to imagine our two main players (Randle and RJ) getting better at that. I hope the FO sees that we don’t need them both and that one should go (the older one who is blocking last year’s top draft pick).

      Agbaji and Branham were both pretty efficient in college, and could be trade-down candidates, even though we already have Grimes who is similar.

    8. Belated congats, Noble. Well done for getting through it. Just FYI, Lady Raven is in the same field, and after making hay with the golden handcuffs for a few years she threw them off to go half-time and run her own international human rights organization. And she still makes as much as me on the law side, damn her. So you should always think of a career in law as opening doors, not closing them, if you’re willing to be creative and take some risks.

      Alan, thinking good thoughts your way. Glad you’re up and typing, at least. Feel better.

      I’ll miss Mitch if he goes.

    9. I hate to admit it, but now is the perfect time to trade RJ.

      I know we all want to love him, but look: he’s played roughly 6500 NBA minutes already and has consistently produced historically bad efficiency.

      I think you’re right, ess-dog. The Sacramento Kings seem like a team that doesn’t want to draft a young player (they did just trade Halliburton, after all). I’d like to kick the tires on RJ Barrett for the 4th pick.

      We can draft Ivey or Murray at 4. Then take Jalen Duren at 11 to replace Mitch. And we’d have a nice crop of young players on rookie contracts: Ivey/Murray, Duren, Obi, IQ, and Grimes.

    10. Hubert: I think you’re right, ess-dog. The Sacramento Kings seem like a team that doesn’t want to draft a young player (they did just trade Halliburton, after all). I’d like to kick the tires on RJ Barrett for the 4th pick.

      We can draft Ivey or Murray at 4. Then take Jalen Duren at 11 to replace Mitch. And we’d have a nice crop of young players on rookie contracts: Ivey/Murray, Duren, Obi, IQ, and Grimes.

      Wow, I know RJ has flaws, but we want to trade him for the 4th pick in a draft everyone acknowledges is pretty uninspiring?

      I know we have RJ contract issues coming up, but I’ll stick with him another year rather than rolling the dice on the #4 pick.

      (Now of course if a superstar trade becomes available, then I might think differently about moving him)

    11. Alan, wishing you a speedy recovery.

      Frank, amazing work. I think in one stroke you have made me feel justified in how much time I have spent in the last 18 years on the Knicks and KB.

      I am a Mitch stan (THE MitchStan?) but it’s obvious one will feel differently about him when he is making 10-15 million per than when he was making 1-2. Mitch also really hasn’t improved. His defense has some issues. He isn’t a star. But I still don’t see any argument that there aren’t a lot of teams that wouldn’t benefit hugely from having him.

      For instance, If you swapped him for Dwight Powell would the Mavs get worse? If he were the backup big in Phoenix or if you brought him in on a reasonable deal after letting go of Ayton, how would that go?

      I think a Tyson Chandler style career is still very much in play and that’s a good player, a championship caliber player.

    12. Trading RJ for a draft pick (other than to land an almost guaranteed immediate impact player) is basically doing another many year reset. That’s not going to happen. nor should it.

    13. I was thinking more of a Donovan Mitchell trade when moving RJ. I think he’s totally worth Keegan Murray/Jaden Ivey, but I’m sure the FO would want an established player if they were to move RJ.

      Any Mitchell trade would have to start with at least RJ and Obi, though. Maybe something like Kemba, Barrett, Cam, Obi, and 1-2 firsts would work. Then of course you’re stuck with Randle, but maybe he fares better as your number two guy… plus a backcourt of Quickley/Mitchell could be nice.

    14. that is not a very inspiring update from Berman. Let our most productive player walk for nothing and lineup a guy who has never coached before to take over when the team “underperforms”.

      Alan I hope you have a smooth recovery. Get home soon!

    15. Alan, hope the surgery went smoothly and hopefully that resolves the lingering kidney issues. The whole experience sounds terrible.

      Thank you Frank for looking out for our fellow KBers!

    16. Hubert: This could be right. Or it could also speak to Leon Rose’s inability to think long term and execute a coherent strategy.

      I think right now there is more evidence that Leon can’t think two steps ahead than there is that the league doesn’t value Mitch. But we will get our answer when free agency starts.

      Well if 2 2nds were all that was offered, I guess that you could argue that it was better than nothing and Leon deferred to the small chance that the Knicks could recover and make the playoffs.

      However it seems unlikely that more than that was offered and the Knicks turned it down and that details of such an offer wouldn’t leak. I mean, the details of the Lakers-Raps-Knicks 3-way were leaked, so why wouldn’t some peachy offer for Mitch that Leon turned down get leaked? (Hint: there was no offer worth taking.)

    17. Wow, Frank has really raised the bar for KBers here. Alan, if you need a new kidney altogether, look no further, Jowles is your man. (Mine are both still too jaundiced from the Isiah years).

    18. Looking at draft prospects highlights from the top down. Is there anyone who can pass in this class? Like, you know, see the angles, find an open man, create something out of nothing. That kind of thing.

    19. DRed: that is not a very inspiring update from Berman. Let our most productive player walk for nothing and lineup a guy who has never coached before to take over when the team “underperforms”.

      “Letting Mitch walk for nothing” taken alone is a pretty simplistic view of the situation. He was a huge injury risk coming into the season and likely wasn’t taking anything less than a fully guaranteed “max” deal for 4 years. He had no compelliing suitors at the deadline. He has groused about his role. He cycles through agents more than the Knicks cycle through coaches. He has not indicated that he would prefer to sign now rather than test free agency. Letting him walk means one less fully guaranteed long term deal on the books and one less flake in the locker room.

      I’m fine rolling with Sims, Noel, Taj and whoever we can pick up in the 2nd round or as a UDFA, or playing small ball with Randle and Obi plus maybe Sochan.

      As to Bryant, sure why not?

    20. I think this team is going to regret it if they let Mitch walk and try to replace him with a Noel/Sims/Some Other Scrub platoon.

      Mitch isn’t an All-Star center but he’s an elite offensive rebounder and shot blocker, and Noel is almost a lock to miss lots of games and Sims is not an NBA starter. The center position could turn into a black hole real quick.

    21. Trading RJ for a draft pick (other than to land an almost guaranteed immediate impact player) is basically doing another many year reset. That’s not going to happen. nor should it.

      Hybrid gonna hybrid.

      If they could get the #4 pick for RJ, they’d be stupid not to take it. They are stupid, though.

    22. I like Mitch, but imo our direction with him partly depends on what our plans are for other players. We clearly still have spacing issues even though they weren’t as bad as the prior year. Randle, RJ, and Mitch is not my dream fit. We will have to fix that eventually either via moves or improvement. If you move Randle out, Obi is not exactly a floor spacer either even though he’s a much different players than Randle.

    23. However it seems unlikely that more than that was offered and the Knicks turned it down and that details of such an offer wouldn’t leak. I mean, the details of the Lakers-Raps-Knicks 3-way were leaked, so why wouldn’t some peachy offer for Mitch that Leon turned down get leaked? (Hint: there was no offer worth taking.)

      I don’t think that’s sound logic. I suspect that the majority of trade offers do not get leaked.

      There’s also the possibility that we didn’t get any good offers because he wasn’t being shopped, and that he wasn’t being shopped because we were trying to make the playoffs.

      I really don’t know how the market will value Mitch and I’m willing to admit you were right if the best he can muster is some crappy 2 year deal at the mid-level.

      I really wanted him at the 4 year, $48mm mark we could have offered him. But it’s not a hill I’m going to die on.

      If letting Mitch walk increases the minutes that Randle or Obi play center it’s probably a good thing (for everyone except Thibs). But if we let him walk and go with 48 minutes of Noel and Sims, not so much.

    24. I find the Berman part about Bryant somewhat strange. Don’t get me wrong, I like the guy and thinks he deserves a HC shot. But if a poor start necessitates a coaching change, why limit yourself to someone who was on the coaching staff during the poor start?

    25. Mitch has his issues, his screens suck for one, but he absolutely carried the team at times with his offensive rebounding and putbacks. Sims is no slouch on the boards, but Mitch is elite.

    26. Sending good vibes for you to have a speedy recovery, Alan. And Frank is helping to make the world a better place, one act of kindness at a time, and we can only say “thank you”. :)

    27. Hubert: I really don’t know how the market will value Mitch and I’m willing to admit you were right if the best he can muster is some crappy 2 year deal at the mid-level.

      If he only gets the MLE, why don’t we do it?

    28. I want to keep Mitch and move on for Randle if for no other reason than I want to run with an IQ, RJ, Obi and Mitch starting 4 (with maybe Burks or Fournier) and see what we can do with a team that plays much faster and is much younger. I just think it would make for much more exciting basketball. And yeah, we can probably replicated 80 percent of Mitch’s production for a mid level type player but Mitch is still super young. People say he hasn’t improved but I disagree. Also, the first season and a half of his career was Fizdale as the coach. Then you had the pandemic which cut that season short. He was starting under Thibs but missed the lastt half of the previous season because of the injury. So under Thibs and the development coaches he’s only had a season and a half with a long break in the middle of that because of the injury. I still say we haven’t seen the best of Mitch yet by a long shot.

    29. By the way there was much debate in last year’s playoffs about the wisdom of trying lineups in the playoffs that hadn’t played together in the regular season. Well, the two likely combatants in the NBA finals are doing plenty of that.

      Golden State’s new death lineup (Curry, Poole, Klay, Wiggins, Green) played zero minutes together in the regular season. And Boston’s small ball lineup (Smart, Tatum, Brown, Grant Williams, and Al Horford) that dominated last night played just 21 minutes together in the regular season.

      So yeah, teams do it. And it works.

    30. Appreciate it Frank, and get well soon Alan.

      Trading RJ for a top 4 pick in this draft would be such a no-brainer that it won’t be on the table for us. Not only would we reset the rookie-scale clock, but we also certainly wouldn’t get any worse in the short-term. RJ Barrett has not been a big contributor to our success at a macro level.

      If you have any doubts, consider how you’d feel if we had a top-4 pick in this draft and traded it for a player with RJ’s exact career to this point–I don’t think there’d be a non-swift defender on the whole board.

      We know 4 teams were interested in Mitch at the deadline. I don’t think all of their offers were “we’ll take him off your hands for nothing,” so if we let him walk for nothing we per se screwed up. Apparently keeping him at the deadline was a matter of Thibs winning out over Aller, lest anyone think it was the product of some cold-hearted rationalist process.

      As I said at the time my strong preference is to keep Mitch, but trading him at the deadline was the obvious play if that’s not going to happen. We don’t have to sugarcoat the fact that letting him walk for nothing (or even a TPE we pay a small price for) would be a disaster.

    31. Raven: Lady Raven is in the same field, and after making hay with the golden handcuffs for a few years she threw them off to go half-time and run her own international human rights organization.

      That is amazing. I bet you’re super proud of her.

    32. Raven: Just FYI, Lady Raven is in the same field, and after making hay with the golden handcuffs for a few years she threw them off to go half-time and run her own international human rights organization. And she still makes as much as me on the law side, damn her. So you should always think of a career in law as opening doors, not closing them, if you’re willing to be creative and take some risks.

      Really appreciate this! I don’t want to dox myself too hard so I’m being a bit vague but I’m starting out as a civil legal services attorney for indigent clients. I don’t pass judgment on what people do to pay the bills, that’s simply a line of work that has always interested and motivated me far more than the golden handcuffs side.

      Your wife’s work sounds crucial and fascinating, happy to hear it worked out.

    33. I don’t know how to feel about Chet Holmgren. Part of me feels like he’s getting the “American Prospect” boost. Size-wise, ball handling, passing, and shooting all remind me of Poku. I think the biggest differences are that Poku’s shot selection is horrible, and shot blocking numbers. I’m unsure if Holmgren looks alot better than Poku because of how he was developed. Mark Few played him as a roving 5 defensively and sticking him at center did alot for his shot selection when you have his skills. Overseas, Poku played like an extremely tall wing, which partially explains his shot selection. But defensively- how much of Holmgren’s shot blocking is due to his defensive instincts, and how much can we credit to how he was used? Don’t get me wrong, I see alot of talent in Chet..but I also see the same type of talent in Poku. I feel like if Poku were playing in college for a coach who knows what he’s doing, we’d be talking about him the same way we talk about Holmgren.

    34. ***Golden State’s new death lineup (Curry, Poole, Klay, Wiggins, Green) played zero minutes together in the regular season.***

      Thompson missed the first 40 games of the season, and the day he came back Green got injured on the first play of the game and sat out the next 32 games, and when he came back Curry was inactive the last 11 games of the season, so, doing some Donnie-level math, there was a 7 second window for that lineup to play together during the regular season. (And, btw, it’s not Wiggins or Poole that make that lineup deadly. It’s a healthy three other guys).

    35. We don’t have to sugarcoat the fact that letting him walk for nothing (or even a TPE we pay a small price for) would be a disaster.

      I think using hyperbole like this is what gets the other side going. It would not be “a disaster”, it would be a poor job of asset management.

      And that’s the thing with guys like Rose. Nothing they ever do is a disaster. They just make a series of decisions that are either suboptimal or poor and they all add up in the end.

      That’s why guys like me, TNFH, and JK get so worked up over these mistakes. No individual one was a disaster, but each has been a bellwether of another poor decision in the future. And it’s the totality of these decisions that’s going to sink us, not one individual one.

    36. Donnie all you did was explain why they played zero minutes together. The argument was Obi and Randle can’t play together in the playoffs because they didn’t in the regular season and you can’t try something new in the playoffs.

      Also I think you’re vastly underestimating the importance of Poole and Wiggins in those lineups. Klay-Curry-Green aren’t dominating with anyone else.

    37. Hubert: I think using hyperbole like this is what gets the other side going. It would not be “a disaster”, it would be a poor job of asset management.

      Fair, I guess I just don’t really care to argue about whether “disaster” is tantamount to “indicative of poor process such that it’s highly unlikely these guys ever assemble a contender.” I don’t really understand how one could agree with the latter characterization but vehemently disagree with the former.

      In other words, if anyone disagrees I would be curious to hear the case for why letting Mitch walk for nothing wouldn’t be indicative of poor process instead of the case for why my wording was 10% too harsh.

    38. Ingmarrrr:
      Looking at draft prospects highlights from the top down. Is there anyone who can pass in this class? Like, you know, see the angles, find an open man, create something out of nothing. That kind of thing.

      I remember being shocked by how long it took to scroll down the big boards to find a true PG. So many bigs. As high as I am on Keegan Murray, his best-case scenario on offense feels like Michael Porter Jr. without the extreme intellectual-capacity deficiency. That’s a great offensive player, but passing and creating for others is a big deal in this league.

    39. ***Donnie all you did was explain why they played zero minutes together. The argument was Obi and Randle can’t play together in the playoffs because they didn’t in the regular season and you can’t try something new in the playoffs.***

      I’m not saying you’re wrong. Just that Golden State’s lineup doesn’t support the claim. If they were physically able to share the court together during the regular season, they would have played it a lot. (If Thibs refused to play three hall-of-famers together in the playoffs because they hadn’t practiced together, then, yes, that would be a crime even swift couldn’t sugarcoat).

    40. Given that the Trail Blazers‘ stated intention of returning to playoff contention next season, dealing their lottery pick is the most likely scenario, Jason Quick of The Athletic opines.

      Maybe pick # 11 and one of Burks, DRose or Fournier into their TPE can get a deal done? They’d still keep a 1RP to send to Detroit for Jerami after the first deal.

    41. Letting Mitch walk will be a huge huge blunder. He is a top 10 center and improved a lot last season. Once he got in shape his blocks and offensive rebounds were way up and his defense was looking very good. Plus he started rolling to the basket and finishing better. Next season he is going to break out a bit. I think having a full summer to work on his game and not deal with injuries is going to pay dividends.

      If we let him walk so we can pay Noel and Gibson an equivalent amount of money it is front office malpractice.

      I think this offseason is easy, resign Mitch, and then if Brunson wants to come here use whatever resources it takes to clear cap space and sign him, even if his price went up. After that make sure Randle is gone and move forward. Quibbling over a couple million a year for Mitch or Brunson is a mistake. They are exactly the types of players you open the wallet for, not Burks, Fournier, Rose, Kemba, or Gibson.

    42. This is Bondy. I guess he is the guy who harps on the practice facility issue.

      Location of practice facility has been a sensitive issue for Knicks. They claim it’s no big deal. Some players — specifically those who’d rather live in the city than Westchester area — disagree. Would cost a lot of money to build a facility anywhere near MSG. twitter.com/nickdepaula/st…

      And the tweet is from SchwinnyPooh who thinks the practice facility issue is BS

    43. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s become an issue. Look at the Nets waterfront practice facility:

      https://www.nba.com/nets/hss-training-center/gallery

      And the swanky new apartment building that is literally connected to the Barclay’s Center, where most of them have a place (even if it’s not their primary residence):

      https://brooklyncrossingny.com/

      The Garden is a pretty shitty place to be from a comfort and amenity perspective. And I don’t think young, rich athletes want to be in westchester. If the money’s equal, the amenities and the ownership probably make a big difference to free agents.

      I think it’s critical the Durant Nets stay grounded and don’t start winning titles bc they could take NY over in due time.

    44. If the Knicks have some sort of interesting offseason plan where they trade for Guy X or sign Guy Y and deal Mitch for Guy Z, then whatever (I imagine I won’t agree with it, but at least it’s a non-crazy approach), but if it’s seriously, “Bring back the same team, except not Mitch, even though we’re capped out either way,” then that would be really, really bad.

    45. The Honorable Cock Jowlespassing and creating for others is a big deal in this league.

      It’s also the most fun to watch. Among other things it shows that lack of “extreme intellectual-capacity deficiency”.

    46. Brian Cronin:
      If the Knicks have some sort of interesting offseason plan where they trade for Guy X or sign Guy Y and deal Mitch for Guy Z, then whatever (I imagine I won’t agree with it, but at least it’s a non-crazy approach), but if it’s seriously, “Bring back the same team, except not Mitch, even though we’re capped out either way,” then that would be really, really bad.

      This is exactly how I feel, and yet I feel like this is exactly what they are going to do.

      Nerlens Noel gives you about 1200 minutes a year if he’s healthy by his own standards, and then you have another like 2700 minutes to fill at the C position. Jericho Sims and some scrub drafted with the #42 pick ain’t gonna get it done.

      Especially when the corollary to this is “we needed Mitch for our 2021-2022 playoff run, in which we fell short, but hey Mitch at least gave us some marginal wins that hurt our draft position.” This is the gentle cascade of mistakes that Hubert was referring to earlier in the trade. One small, bad, uninspired decision begets another.

      #hybrid4eva

    47. I would be pretty happy with a not-so-unrealistic offseason which involved us trading for Myles Turner, trading Mitch in a S&T, dumping Randle and Burks hopefully for neutral or positive value, and making the #11 pick.

      I would love to roll out Quickley, RJ, Grimes, Obi, and Myles Turner as the starting lineup. I think that’s a really fun lineup with tons of defensive versatility even if there isn’t an oversized wing stopper (RJ and Grimes did ok at that last year). Bring Rose/Deuce/Fournier/Cam/Sims off the bench…

      This team might not be great, but it would be fun.

    48. 150,000 lifetime miles (Apr, 2021)

      our very own knick fan in celtic land…wow, incredible journey to go along with those miles…

      My most memorable race just might be my worst. It was March 25 of this year, a little over three months after my open-heart surgery. I was at a race where I am a three-time past overall winner and have been participating for 37 consecutive years. The race director was going to make me an honorary finish line official, but my Pete Rose inner voice kicked in and I decided to run the race to keep my streak alive. The course is a 10K called Cohasset by the Sea but this year it was shortened to 5 miles due to construction on the course. I managed to complete it in 42:06 (an 8:26 pace) on wobbly legs and a slowly healing heart.

      you are quite the amazing fellow there doctor bob…wow, this made me smile too:
      I ran 80-90 miles per week for much of my 35-year career. Now I do 40 miles per week.

      that’s some funny shit right there – “yeah, i used to run a bunch, now i’m just putting in a casual 40 mile week, you know, just to stay loose” :)

    49. thank you frank for looking after our alan…job done well sir…

      stay strong al…

    50. Always happy to help a fellow KBer. Got to meet Alan in person (very briefly) yesterday also!

    51. Letting Mitch walk will be a huge huge blunder.

      honest question Ben R, not sure how closely you follow the team or their press interviews – but, have you not gotten the strong vibe that mitch wants to move on from new york…

      i’m not sure what kind of salary he’ll end up with (i gotta believe someone will pay him at least 15 million a year to anchor their defense) – but, my feeling the last couple of years is mitch (the person) is ready to move on…

      who knows though, maybe i’m reading it/him wrong…

    52. Got to meet Alan in person (very briefly) yesterday also!

      looking all sexy in his gown no doubt :)

      don’t forget al, when able, gotta get around a little and give folks a show of that big beautiful butt of yours…

      i don’t know frank, seems to always be easier to do nothing…almost rare it seems to have people extend themselves with kindness and concern…

    53. I wonder if we’ll make a play for Bronx-born Mo Bamba? I saw a prediction that he would get 4/48 which night not be significantly less than what Mitch gets. He is a shooter, though, and it sound like the Magic will let him walk.

    54. If Orlando takes Chet Bamba could be on the board for us. Could be a cheaper alternative than whatever Myles will cost.

    55. honest question Ben R, not sure how closely you follow the team or their press interviews – but, have you not gotten the strong vibe that mitch wants to move on from new york…

      Even more reason to have traded him during the season, then, if Mitch seriously wants out.

    56. We should never have let it get to this point with Mitch. I wouldn’t blame him if he wanted to leave. We could have made him restricted last summer or extended him this year and instead now we are completely at his mercy and will probably lose him for nothing.

      I know people seem to love Turner but I don’t think he is an upgrade over Mitch. His mediocre 3pt shooting hardly makes up for the huge disparity in offensive rebounds. It’s a wash at best in my opinion. Plus Turner will cost assets and cap room while Mitch will just cost cap room.

    57. This is the gentle cascade of mistakes that Hubert was referring to earlier in the trade. One small, bad, uninspired decision begets another.

      I really like the way you phrased that. “The gentle cascade of mistakes.” That’s exactly what it is.

    58. geo: our very own knick fan in celtic land…wow, incredible journey to go along with those miles…

      My most memorable race just might be my worst.It was March 25 of this year, a little over three months after my open-heart surgery. I was at a race where I am a three-time past overall winner and have been participating for 37 consecutive years.The race director was going to make me an honorary finish line official, but my Pete Rose inner voice kicked in and I decided to run the race to keep my streak alive.The course is a 10K called Cohasset by the Sea but this year it was shortened to 5 miles due to construction on the course.I managed to complete it in 42:06 (an 8:26 pace) on wobbly legs and a slowly healing heart.

      you are quite the amazing fellow there doctor bob…wow, this made me smile too:
      I ran 80-90 miles per week for much of my 35-year career. Now I do 40 miles per week.

      that’s some funny shit right there – “yeah, i used to run a bunch, now i’m just putting in a casual 40 mile week, you know, just to stay loose” :)

      Geo,

      I am impressed that you found both of those Runner’s World Magazine blog articles. You must do high mileage googling.

    59. This Dereon Seabron kid looked crazy good in combine scrimmages. Strong, 6’7”, and moved to PG (played off ball at NC State) where he got to the rim at will. His numbers aren’t all that except his rebounding was off the charts for a SG. Maybe his game is better suited for pro ball?

    60. ha doc bob, i have little to no doubt you’re one of the biggest brains posting here – and we got our share of big ‘uns here…

      it’s in you’re hyperlink on your name…

      honestly, my memory is not so great at times, it helps me soooooooooo much when folks link some stuff (or drop a hint or two) about themselves…

      let’s all be honest with one another – just cuz we root for a loser organization does not equate to us ourselves being somewhat, or any what, inept or less than…

      in fact, i’d say our committment demonstrates both character and courage…to stare in to that truly deep lightless abyss which is/has been/and most likely will always be new york knickerbocker fandom…

      feel proud my brother, not only have your bones and entire body been severely road tested and thrived and survived – so has your self-esteem and sanity…

    61. A “gentle cascade of mistakes “- that pretty much sums up the Knicks performance this century.

    62. what i really remember you for doc bob – is you patiently explaining all the nuances of derrick roses’ frail body while he was here the first time…

      i also remember how you very very subtlety let it out that you were preparing to engage in a health care situation…

      then i didn’t see you post for a while…glad the knicks are still causing you grief :P

    63. Even more reason to have traded him during the season, then, if Mitch seriously wants out.

      honestly, there seems to have been only brief periods of time during his entire stay here in new york where i got much of a feeling (through the media lens of course) that the knick front office were really excited about his future…most of the stuff floating out there seemed to be focused on stuff he needed to improve upon, or, him needing to be on the court more…

      i have no idea why they didn’t trade mitch…if he does stay, makes sense, if he walks, big mistake…

    64. “Trading RJ for a top 4 pick in this draft would be such a no-brainer that it won’t be on the table for us. Not only would we reset the rookie-scale clock, but we also certainly wouldn’t get any worse in the short-term. RJ Barrett has not been a big contributor to our success at a macro level.”

      Granted, I haven’t seen any of the top 4 players play. Maybe there are 3-4 sure fire stars up there. But again, unless we are getting a mortal lock impact player, imo doing a reset again would be idiotic. The NBA would probably make a few phone calls to Dolan to see who in management is on drugs. lol

      We can’t keep resetting because we are impatient with the development of young players or because an extension is a moderate overpay. If we keep doing that hoping for a home run, in 25 years some of our grandchildren might still be arguing the same things after years of the same nonsense.

      The RJ decision may be tough, but they have to see “at least” one more year of him with an actual NBA PG, some space, a well constructed offense, and another year of development. If an opportunity to trade him for an established star becomes available this year, that might make some sense depending on his age, salary, and quality. But if they simply reset again because they don’t want to pay him based on what they’ve seen 5-6 years from his peak and in a dysfunctional offense, they might as well call themselves the NY laughing stocks.

    65. “It is foolish and childish, on the face of it, to affiliate ourselves with anything so insignificant and patently contrived and commercially exploitative as a professional sports team.
      What is left out of this calculation, it seems to me, is the business of caring — caring deeply and passionately, really caring — which is a capacity or an emotion that has almost gone out of our lives.”

      RIP Roger Angell

    66. Raven:
      “It is foolish and childish, on the face of it, to affiliate ourselves with anything so insignificant and patently contrived and commercially exploitative as a professional sports team.
      What is left out of this calculation, it seems to me, is the business of caring — caring deeply and passionately, really caring — which is a capacity or an emotion that has almost gone out of our lives.”

      RIP Roger Angell

      Edit: Man Owen, speedy fingers…

    67. thenoblefacehumper: Really appreciate this! I don’t want to dox myself too hard so I’m being a bit vague but I’m starting out as a civil legal services attorney for indigent clients. I don’t pass judgment on what people do to pay the bills, that’s simply a line of work that has always interested and motivated me far more than the golden handcuffs side.

      Your wife’s work sounds crucial and fascinating, happy to hear it worked out.

      My sister tried what I think you mean by the golden handcuffs side but gave it up because it was too stressful. You seem to be one jump ahead of where she was.

    68. Nerlens Noel gives you about 1200 minutes a year if he’s healthy by his own standards, and then you have another like 2700 minutes to fill at the C position. Jericho Sims and some scrub drafted with the #42 pick ain’t gonna get it done.

      JK, I think you and others are underestimating Sims. If you look at Sims’ stats they weren’t as good as Mitch’s but they were pretty close and Sims was very raw last season. I actually saw Sims take a short range jump shot too, which is some thing Mitch never does, and is a useful skill to prevent players from defending you solely for lobs and dunks. Thibs actually commented that Sims is a pretty good passer. That shocked me, because I haven’t seen it, but Thibs doesn’t have a history of making stuff like that up. If he can show passing chops, that would be something Mitch has not shown signs of doing.

      Sims isn’t better than Mitch at the moment, but I can see the Knicks having faith in him getting better and becoming at least as good. And I think Mitch wants a lot of money. He’s switched agents so many times he must think they aren’t getting him what he’s worth. That means negotiations will be difficult. I agree that it’s bad to lose him for nothing and I’m sure the Knicks will try not to do that. But I think we’re in a situation where they have to wait for the market to speak about his value before they close any sort of deal.

    69. Randle, RJ, and Mitch is not my dream fit. We will have to fix that eventually either via moves or improvement

      This is certainly true, but it’s classically Knicksy to let the productive guy walk away because he doesn’t fit well with the unproductive guys you are massively overpaying (or planning to overpay, in RJ’s case). idk, Mitch isn’t a superstar and you can find productive centers for less than premium money so it’s not going to doom the team if he goes, but it’s a sign that the new regime doesn’t know really know what they’re doing.

    70. geo:
      i also remember how you very very subtlety let it out that you were preparing to engage in a health care situation…

      then i didn’t see you post for a while…glad the knicks are still causing you grief :P

      I had open heart surgery to replace the aortic valve and the aorta (big blood vessel after the heart). I now have a cow valve (my son says I am now full of bull) and a Dacron aorta to fix congenital defects that caused things to wear out early. It was more concerning than usual because no one in my immediate family has ever survived open heart surgery. I feel like my fitness helped the outcome.

      I am lucky enough to have witnessed two Knicks NBA Championships and a 7 game finals loss in a Championship game. I also had a great dinner with Dick Van Arsdale (a starting small forward in the 60’s) as a prize for being MVP of a basketball team back in Paramus. So there was some pleasure to go along with the grief.

    71. Sims is an interesting case. He is a genuinely freakish athlete. Someone said he had the second highest vertical on record at the combine. And he put up good rookie numbers. Seems coachable. I felt like his defense improved through the year.

      I don’t know if he is ready to be our next Mitch but there is a lot to like there.

    72. Sims (who is the same age as Mitch) was awful on offense. The people who complained about Mitch being low usage better take a hard look at how often Sims got a shot up.

      I will say he did seem to set much better screens than Mitch.

    73. “A Gentle Cascade of Mistakes” should definitely be the title of JD and the Straight Shot’s next album.

    74. Basketball is so much more fun to watch when the refs aren’t even in the building.

    75. DRed:
      Sims (who is the same age as Mitch) was awful on offense.The people who complained about Mitch being low usage better take a hard look at how often Sims got a shot up.

      I will say he did seem to set much better screens than Mitch.

      He was lower usage, for sure, but I think Mitch was like that his first season too. His eFG was the same and his TS% was slightly lower than that of Mitch. It’s definitely a worry whether he can get his usage up.

    76. Mitch is the best offensive rebounder in the league, Sims isn’t even close. Plus Mitch is a much better shot blocker. Sims’s lack of scoring is only part of why he isn’t nearly as good as Mitch.

      Mitch took a while to get into shape but once he did over February, March, and April he averaged 6.7 orbs and 3.3 blks per 36. That is truly elite and Sims cannot even begin to approach that level of production.

      It’s not even close at all.
      really think people assume that since Mitch hasn’t started shooting 3s he hasn’t improved. He has improved a lot. His rebounding and his abilty to play defense without fouling has improved a lot.

    77. “over February, March, and April he averaged 6.7 orbs and 3.3 blks per 36.”

      Per 36 numbers are a bit dubious when talking about a guy who has only averaged more than 26 minutes a game once in his four-year NBA career.

      Mike

    78. I have to say that Reggie Miller and Stan van Gundy really work together well as commentators. I haven’t been thrilled with Reggie in the past, but somehow Stan brings out the best in him.

    79. That’s a pretty perceptive comment. I think o feel the same way but it may just be that I like SVG so much that it softens the low.

      As a big-man guy I love how they are building The Myth of Kevon Looney.

    80. my son says I am now full of bull

      that’s funny…

      endurance athletes seem to have as much a challenge with the mindfulness aspect of the sport than the strain/strengthening of the rest of their physique…

      i mean, we all have unique stories, i’ve come to understand that in the broader scope of “dealing with life”…

      no one gets off easy, the costs seem to increase over time too…thankfully enough, so does the value…

      weird question, sorry, but were there specific subjects you planned to cover/contemplate while training/racing?

      do you enter some type of meditative state?

      if you are able to achieve some kind of mind over body situation:
      – are you able to duplicate that “state” when not running?

      – is there a specific “gateway” process that you use?

    81. Every front office makes lots of mistakes. The difference between bad and good FOs is a) the ratio of good to bad, b) the magnitude of the good vs. the bad, and c) whether the good are sustainable and the bad are recoverable.

      The jury is out on this FO. If they lose Mitch for nothing, that’s in the negative column as a clear mismanagement of that asset. But it’s one minor gaffe. So is the #19 thing. So are the others in the “cascade.”

      There’s been plenty of good moves as well, in the draft and in the moves they didn’t make out of desperation.

      I’m still giving them time before making sweeping judgments. Leon was new at the job and was bound to make mistakes. Will he learn from them? We’ll see.

    82. I’m just hoping for a gentle cascade of good moves from our front office.

    83. Mavs are getting demolished inside. No paint protection. It’s nightmarish.

    84. Mitch is clearly better than Sims. But is Mitch worth a guaranteed 4 years at $13mill or more a year? Sims will be earning like 10% of that.

    85. I may have been getting Luka and Maxi confused on some of those defensive plays but either way that was some horrific defense

    86. $13M is actually pretty cheap for an NBA starting caliber player, which is what Mitch is.

      I mean, sure, you can give that gig to Sims for cheap, but now you’ve downgraded your interior defense and you’re giving away a lot of putbacks and extra possessions, and creating another hole that you have to fill. We’re supposed to be a “win now” team so I don’t really understand why you’d want to make a clear downgrade at the C position.

      I guess the comeback would be that you’d only have to live with the Noel/Sims pairing for one season, then some of the mercs come off the books, but are the Knicks really going to find a better C than Mitch two off-seasons from now for less than $13M?

    87. JK47:
      $13M is actually pretty cheap for an NBA starting caliber player, which is what Mitch is.

      I mean, sure, you can give that gig to Sims for cheap, but now you’ve downgraded your interior defense and you’re giving away a lot of putbacks and extra possessions, and creating another hole that you have to fill. We’re supposed to be a “win now” team so I don’t really understand why you’d want to make a clear downgrade at the C position.

      I guess the comeback would be that you’d only have to live with the Noel/Sims pairing for one season, then some of the mercs come off the books, but are the Knicks really going to find a better C than Mitch two off-seasons from now for less than $13M?

      Whether you can or can’t isn’t an important question right now, it is the position you worry the least about in any given year. It is pretty likely that either you can fill the “pure 5” position with a player or players who will give you close to Mitch’s production for less money or that you can fill the position with a more versatile player who might cost more but is worth the premium.

    88. JK47: I mean, sure, you can give that gig to Sims for cheap, but now you’ve downgraded your interior defense and you’re giving away a lot of putbacks and extra possessions,

      I know it’s a small sample but in his 555 minutes the Knicks were plus 7.9 per 100 poss with Jericho Sims on the court and his on/off was plus 8.9. Whatever you are giving back, you seem to be getting a lot in return. And he clearly was on an upwards trajectory so there’s a reasonable chance he gets somewhat better.

    89. For me, signing Mitch between 50 and 60 million for four years is a no-brainer. Yes, you can get 80% of Mitch’s production cheaper, but you usually pay more (way more) for that extra 20%. You need that extra 20% in several positions to create mismatches and not allow the opponent to game plan you. And I firmly believe that if we had a true point guard, Mitch would work really well on offense. There is a big question about the fit with a PF that also needs to play close to the rim (Zion, but also Obi): so if you go that route, fair enough, but Noel and Sims have even greater problems in that regard, so you better be thinking about trading for Myles Turner or someone similar.

      Right now, I am leaning towards the opposite, keep Randle and trade RJ/Obi/Fournier/Dallas 1st for Donovan Mitchell. But I might change my mind again. I have more or less clear that we should either trade Randle, or RJ/Obi. Although the consensus seems to be to trade Randle, RJ’s extension scares me a lot, and I think Obi will top out as a worse Amare (which is really hard to make it work defensively). So I right now, I would rather roll the dice with Randle.

    90. iserp: iserp
      May 21, 2022 at 4:18 am
      For me, signing Mitch between 50 and 60 million for four years is a no-brainer. Yes, you can get 80% of Mitch’s production cheaper, but you usually pay more (way more) for that extra 20%. You need that extra 20% in several positions to create mismatches and not allow the opponent to game plan you. And I firmly believe that if we had a true point guard, Mitch would work really well on offense. There is a big question about the fit with a PF that also needs to play close to the rim (Zion, but also Obi): so if you go that route, fair enough, but Noel and Sims have even greater problems in that regard, so you better be thinking about trading for Myles Turner or someone similar.

      But you kind of identified the problem with Mitch. At that price, you are pretty much locked in to playing him as a starter and building a lineup around him. I believe that he’s good but not great defensively, especially against smaller more mobile lineups, and that his extremely limited offensive game limits offensive game planning.

      Even if I conceded your point, think of the reaction to the possibility of using the #11 pick on Duren or Williams, both of whom most evaluators would probably believe to have higher ceilings than Mitch. If he’s so important/irreplaceable, why not just use that pick to replace him? Of course, the answer is that you don’t want to squander a high draft pick on the least important position, even though it would lock in a possibly better player at a much lower salary for the next 4 years.

      You found Mitch in the second round and Sims at #58. Finding a suitable replacement for market-contract Mitch will not be that hard. And that’s assuming that this injury-free year isn’t an outlier.

    91. think of the reaction to the possibility of using the #11 pick on Duren or Williams, both of whom most evaluators would probably believe to have higher ceilings than Mitch. If he’s so important/irreplaceable, why not just use that pick to replace him? Of course, the answer is that you don’t want to squander a high draft pick on the least important position, even though it would lock in a possibly better player at a much lower salary for the next 4 years.

      That is not the answer.

      The answer is that we’re a bad team with a lot of needs, and if all we get out of a lottery pick is saving $8mm AAV on the center position then we have — once again — grossly mismanaged our assets and squandered an opportunity to improve.

      FWIW I like Duren and if we take him at 11 I will support the player while I deride the process.

    92. Hubert, I agree that losing an asset for nothing is never a good process, and certainly not in this case. But there are plenty of shades of gray in this particular instance. I think he is very overrated here (e.g. some still think that Mitch is somewhere close to the player that RWiii is and I think there is a substantial gap) so it is unclear what his market value actually is. I guess we’ll find out. We also don’t know how easy he is to replace because we haven’t really tried it, but suffice it to say that we did pretty well without him in the second half of 2020-21.

      I guess you can blame Thibs somewhat because he devalues the position so much that it isn’t hard to slot someone in there and not lose much.

    93. Hubert: FWIW I like Duren and if we take him at 11 I will support the player while I deride the process.

      I also like Duren a lot. He’s already showing signs of being more than a dunker/shot-blocker and he’s still very young. But I wouldn’t take him unless he was clearly a much better prospect than anyone else available at that spot.

    94. I think Robert Williams has absolutely put some distance between himself and Mitch. And even RW is having a hard time staying on the court against the Heat.

      And I also agree with you that Mitch may not be worth the money he wants.

      But the incongruity of the whole thing is just staggering. If we’re a win-now team, as we allegedly are, then replacing Mitch with Sims is going to be a huge blow. If we’re not a win-now team, then what are we doing with all these high-priced vets?

      The most justifiable reason to let Mitch walk would be that in response to last season we’ve decided that Obi needs to be on the court more and we’re not giving up on Randle. So we’re letting Mitch walk to free up minutes at the Center position as we embrace a dynamic offensive approach. But again, there’s the incongruity of that and what our coach wants.

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