Knicks Morning News (2022.01.20)

  • McBride drops 16 dimes in Westchester Knicks’ second win – Empire Sports Media
    [empiresportsmedia.com] — Thursday, January 20, 2022 7:04:04 AM

    McBride drops 16 dimes in Westchester Knicks’ second win  Empire Sports Media

  • Wilt Chamberlain Had The New York Knicks Drop Him Home After He Scored 100 Points On Them: “You Guys Are Nice Sons Of B*tches. Letting Me Score 100 Points And Then Giving Me A Ride Back. Here’s Gas Money.” – Fadeaway World
    [fadeawayworld.net] — Thursday, January 20, 2022 4:39:38 AM

    Wilt Chamberlain Had The New York Knicks Drop Him Home After He Scored 100 Points On Them: “You Guys Are Nice Sons Of B*tches. Letting Me Score 100 Points And Then Giving Me A Ride Back. Here’s Gas Money.”  Fadeaway World

  • Grading The Knicks Trade For Cam Reddish – Sports Illustrated
    [www.si.com] — Thursday, January 20, 2022 12:24:54 AM

    Grading The Knicks Trade For Cam Reddish  Sports Illustrated

  • New Orleans Pelicans vs. New York Knicks Prediction, Preview, and Odds – 1-20-2022 – Winners and Whiners
    [winnersandwhiners.com] — Wednesday, January 19, 2022 11:44:44 PM

    New Orleans Pelicans vs. New York Knicks Prediction, Preview, and Odds – 1-20-2022  Winners and Whiners

  • Timberwolves benefited from a few missed calls late in win over Knicks, per NBA report – Grand Forks Herald
    [www.grandforksherald.com] — Wednesday, January 19, 2022 10:05:00 PM

    Timberwolves benefited from a few missed calls late in win over Knicks, per NBA report  Grand Forks Herald

  • Kemba Walker isn’t making promises about his availability for Knicks – New York Post
    [nypost.com] — Wednesday, January 19, 2022 9:42:00 PM

    Kemba Walker isn’t making promises about his availability for Knicks  New York Post Kemba Walker back in lineup for Knicks after missing 9 games  NBA.comKemba Walker return gives Knicks depth in backcourt | amNewYork  AMNYKnicks news: New York receives huge Kemba Walker injury update  ClutchPointsKemba Walker, Knicks lose to Timberwolves after sloppy final minutes  New York Daily NewsView Full Coverage on Google News

  • Knicks’ Obi Toppin seeing his minutes decrease – New York Post
    [nypost.com] — Wednesday, January 19, 2022 8:26:00 PM

    Knicks’ Obi Toppin seeing his minutes decrease  New York Post

  • NBA acknowledges three missed calls in Knicks’ loss to Timberwolves – New York Post
    [nypost.com] — Wednesday, January 19, 2022 7:07:00 PM

    NBA acknowledges three missed calls in Knicks’ loss to Timberwolves  New York Post

  • Knicks need a point guard and fast – New York Post
    [nypost.com] — Wednesday, January 19, 2022 6:53:00 PM

    Knicks need a point guard and fast  New York Post

  • The Cavaliers won’t fall off and end up like the Knicks and Hawks – Factory of Sadness
    [factoryofsadness.co] — Wednesday, January 19, 2022 6:52:00 PM

    The Cavaliers won’t fall off and end up like the Knicks and Hawks  Factory of Sadness

  • 2022 NBA trade deadline tracker: Knicks acquire Cam Reddish from Hawks; Bryn Forbes to Nuggets in 3-team deal – CBS Sports
    [www.cbssports.com] — Wednesday, January 19, 2022 6:07:18 PM

    2022 NBA trade deadline tracker: Knicks acquire Cam Reddish from Hawks; Bryn Forbes to Nuggets in 3-team deal  CBS Sports

  • New Orleans faces New York, aims to end road slide – KPLC
    [www.kplctv.com] — Wednesday, January 19, 2022 4:02:00 PM

    New Orleans faces New York, aims to end road slide  KPLC

  • 2021-22 NBA midseason grades: Suns, Cavs, Grizzlies get highest marks; Lakers, Knicks disappoint in first half – CBS Sports
    [www.cbssports.com] — Wednesday, January 19, 2022 3:56:00 PM

    2021-22 NBA midseason grades: Suns, Cavs, Grizzlies get highest marks; Lakers, Knicks disappoint in first half  CBS Sports

  • All Users Get Up To $50 With FanDuel New York NY Knicks Promo – NY Sports Day
    [www.nysportsday.com] — Wednesday, January 19, 2022 3:07:34 PM

    All Users Get Up To $50 With FanDuel New York NY Knicks Promo  NY Sports Day

  • Moeller alums Jaxson Hayes, Miles McBride set to meet in NBA action, Knicks v. Pelicans – The Cincinnati Enquirer
    [www.cincinnati.com] — Wednesday, January 19, 2022 2:40:11 PM

    Moeller alums Jaxson Hayes, Miles McBride set to meet in NBA action, Knicks v. Pelicans  The Cincinnati Enquirer

  • Knicks waive Solomon Hill, sign Ryan Arcidiacono – Yahoo Sports
    [sports.yahoo.com] — Wednesday, January 19, 2022 1:31:18 PM

    Knicks waive Solomon Hill, sign Ryan Arcidiacono  Yahoo Sports

  • Dane Moore NBA Podcast: Win Over Knicks + The Ant-KAT Pairing This Season – Canis Hoopus
    [www.canishoopus.com] — Wednesday, January 19, 2022 12:10:00 PM

    Dane Moore NBA Podcast: Win Over Knicks + The Ant-KAT Pairing This Season  Canis Hoopus

  • Meet the #1 Knicks Fan – NBC New York
    [www.nbcnewyork.com] — Wednesday, January 19, 2022 12:09:08 PM

    Meet the #1 Knicks Fan  NBC New York

  • NBA Insider on Knicks loss to Timberwolves, if injured Myles Turner is trade target | SportsNite – Yahoo Sports
    [sports.yahoo.com] — Wednesday, January 19, 2022 10:30:12 AM

    NBA Insider on Knicks loss to Timberwolves, if injured Myles Turner is trade target | SportsNite  Yahoo Sports

  • What exactly do the New York Knicks have in Evan Fournier? – Daily Knicks
    [dailyknicks.com] — Wednesday, January 19, 2022 10:00:00 AM

    What exactly do the New York Knicks have in Evan Fournier?  Daily Knicks

  • Morning sports update: New candidate in Vikings coaching search, Wolves edge Knicks – KELO
    [kelo.com] — Wednesday, January 19, 2022 8:08:37 AM

    Morning sports update: New candidate in Vikings coaching search, Wolves edge Knicks  KELO

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    133 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2022.01.20)”

    1. The reason I think Morey should take the best deal he can at this point is that Embiid’s body is something of a ticking time bomb. You don’t know how many more seasons you’re going to get of him playing at this level, and playing lots of games, so the calculus is different than it would be if he was as durable as LeBron used to be. This is a case where selling low is probably wiser than waiting for the optimal offer down the road.

      (Reposted from the end of yesterday’s thread.)

    2. I think I read a report that Simmons team has said he is fine to sit out the whole season if they don’t move him by the trade deadline.

      I mean WT actual F? How has the NBA not gotten involved in this mess? This is not a guy on an expiring contract pushing his way out. He literally just signed a max long term deal and how he is allowed to just not play and collect his pay check bc the coach said mean things about his play in a press conference after they lost a playoff series?

      How is this allowed to happen? Doesn’t this set a horrible precedence? I’m all for there being a balance of power between teams and players but this seems like letting the player have way too much control of the situation. I guess the counter argument is Morey is holding out for too much, but seriously, dude just signed a max long term contract.

      I agree though that Morey should just take the best offer out there. I mean, it’s not the worst thing to get several decent players and some draft capital back in return for him. Maybe you aren’t replacing Simmons with an equal all NBA talent, but giving Embiid a team that is deep and giving the 76ers more picks to work with in the future…that’s not the worst outcome.

    3. Alan, I totally agree and I think at the end Morey will cave in one way or another.

      At the same time this is not the usual situation, here we have a player asking for a trade with 4 years still on his contract, It’s a very important chapter in the players empowerment saga.

      Rich Paul made two glaring errors:

      First he publicly stated that Simmons did ask for a trade, immediately putting the 76ers in a bad spot and devaluing the asset.

      Then he tried the holdout route, saying the CBA guarantees that Simmons’ fines would be given back at the end of the diatribe, forcing both NBA and NBAPA to respond that this isn’t true (and costing Simmons 1.4 M in the process).

      Maybe Morey’s searching for the best deal for the 76ers and the worst situation for Simmons and if this is the case Sacramento can be a good compromise…

      Edit: Obviously Rivers’ post elimination comments were the original sin.

    4. searching for the best deal for the 76ers and the worst situation for Simmons

      So what happens, and I’m not saying it will, when the trade happens and Simmons is like “nah. I’m not playing for Sacramento.”

    5. One thing I really hate is Simmons’ using the “mental health” excuse to cover his ass for his decision not to workout or play with the team after his holdout try blew out.

      Mental health and depression are serious, important issues, many people and families suffer for them and to use them as a screen to duck fines because you’re too weak to face your teammates and fans is deplorable.

    6. KevinR:
      Wonder if Zion would pull this Simmons move

      This is why the Simmons’ situation is so important NBA-wise…
      Wait and see, the next CBA will be a war.

    7. They were talking about trading Simmons for Harden after the end of the season on PTI which makes a ton of sense outside of the playoff run issue.

    8. My only issue with people talking about Simmons is that you can’t simultaneously call him mentally weak for his performances and then turn around and clown him for saying he’s treating mental health issues. If his struggles are mental, isn’t that exactly what he should be doing?

      We don’t know half the story. I can accept that it might be a fake justification just for him to stay out, but at the same time it bothers me that people won’t consider that a young superstar, who has been touted as a mega potential star at every point of his career and never really struggled, wouldn’t have to deal with real mental health issues with all the crazy shit that has happened with him, the constant hatred from the fan base, coaches, players throwing him under the bus, etc etc.

      Maybe it’s a fake, just an agent’s strategy to keep him out and maintain leverage, but I highly doubt he’s in a great mental state with everything that has happened.

    9. Bruno, just to be clear, I’m not part of the group that call Simmons “mentally weak”.

      Edit: I think he’s a spoiled primadonna, but that has nothing to do with his mental strength.

    10. Simmons-for-Harden is my bet for how this ends, whether it’s at the deadline or during the offseason (I think this is more likely). The situation in Brooklyn strikes me as…unsettled, to put it lightly.

      You could argue both teams would improve (given this still-good-but-clearly-diminished version of Harden) and it wouldn’t be the craziest thing in the world for the Nets to try to get a bit younger and more athletic.

      Also, the fact that this is a legitimate discussion probably means we per se cannot put together a competitive Simmons package.

    11. Meanwhile, this Lakers season got even messier with Vogel benching Westbrook for the end of last night’s loss.

      Vogel has toed the company line with Westbrook all season, publicly praising him even when his performance didn’t warrant such praise. But he dropped that facade on Wednesday, if only momentarily. When asked postgame about his reasoning for not playing Westbrook down the stretch, Vogel didn’t mince his words.

      “Playing the guys that I thought were going to win the game,” Vogel said.

    12. I read this probably 30 years or so ago now and the reading was 20 years or so after it happened — the “this” is how Pearl got from the Bullets to the Knicks. The part that sticks with me is Pearl basically telling them he wasn’t going to play for them the next season and the Bullets’ owner, Abe Pollin, wondering why and thinking it had no basis and oh how can this be true and oh if we just talk it out things will be ok. As the season drew closer, Pearl’s agent and Abe set up a conversation and Abe started in and the agent basically went through some social niceties and then when the business talk got going, he let Abe say like two sentences and then ended things with, “He’s not playing for you, Abe.”

      The NBA has been this way forever.

    13. If his struggles are mental, isn’t that exactly what he should be doing?

      I mean, none of us really know what the pressure is like to be a super highly paid professional athlete. Sure, you have millions, hot girls love you everywhere, you get treated like a star everywhere you go, but there is a ton of pressure to keep all of that going.

      That being said, I do not think missing free throws in a playoff game qualifies as a “mental health issue” at least not in the same way as someone who is really battling depression. Depression, panic attacks, etc…that people with real mental health issues face…those people aren’t able to go out night after night and play NBA basketball for a living. They often can’t even get off the couch.

      So I’m skeptical when he uses the mental health angle. But who knows…maybe he really is dealing with that? A lot of high functioning people are secretly battling shit. One of my friend’s growing up, his dad was a really respected judge in my hometown until he got busted at motel six with really trashy hookers smoking crack. Totally destroyed my friend’s family and apparently it had been going on for years and no one suspected a thing.

    14. If there are any Knickerbloggers who are really interested in how the association sausage gets made, and the behind-the-scenes egos and money, the best book out there — still, now, 40 years after the fact — is David Halberstam’s “Breaks of the Game,” a season with the 1980 Portland Trail Blazers as their championship team is incinerating from within because of money, ego, backstabbing, jealousy, double dealing, and a tall red-headed guy’s misdiagnosed metacarpals.

      The money was huge then and is now monumentally gargantuan, but the particulars are timeless. This is show business produced by rich guys, and these are not remotely normal people.

    15. What would be a reasonable offer to Dallas for Brunson?

      Would Kemba, Obi and giving them back their 2023 pick be good on both sides?

      I like the idea a lot of getting Brunson here. Seems like if he was the starter with Rose as the back up and McBride developing, we’d be in much better shape at that position.

    16. If I’m Morey, I try to get a multi-young player/expiring package for Simmons that lets you dump Harris, too (obviously what he’s resorting to). Then you get Harden in the summer, as it seems clear he wants to reunite with Morey.

      Would Portland do Mccollum/Little/Simons/Nurkic/Covington for Ben/Tobias/Bassey? That would give the Sixers a lot of ammo and save them enough money to go after Harden, I believe.

    17. this seems like letting the player have way too much control of the situation.

      All good NBA players are essentially assigned to a team at random for a minimum of 7 years for no reason other than that the owners of small market teams want it that way. A person making a decision about who he wants to work for is not exerting “way too much control.”

      I hope this does set a precedent. I was talking about soccer yesterday. This is how it works in the rest of the world. You get to choose who you work for.

      It remains greatest irony that American sports league are run like authoritarian communist regimes, and the rest of the world’s athletes enjoy the freedoms of democracy.

    18. Bruno Almeida:
      My only issue with people talking about Simmons is that you can’t simultaneously call him mentally weak for his performances and then turn around and clown him for saying he’s treating mental health issues. If his struggles are mental, isn’t that exactly what he should be doing?

      We don’t know half the story. I can accept that it might be a fake justification just for him to stay out, but at the same time it bothers me that people won’t consider that a young superstar, who has been touted as a mega potential star at every point of his career and never really struggled, wouldn’t have to deal with real mental health issues with all the crazy shit that has happened with him, the constant hatred from the fan base, coaches, players throwing him under the bus, etc etc.

      Maybe it’s a fake, just an agent’s strategy to keep him out and maintain leverage, but I highly doubt he’s in a great mental state with everything that has happened.

      I would normally be inclined to agree with you except that all the reports are that his agents have made clear he’s going to be available to whatever team he gets traded to as soon as he gets his conditioning back. If he was going through some kind of legit mental health struggle, that’s not something that would be resolved as soon as he gets the trade he’s looking for. I do think he has obvious issues dealing with pressure that have manifested in a few ways throughout his career but also that it’s pretty obvious those issues are in no sense severe enough to cause him to be missing half a season and that he’s using it as an excuse right now because he doesn’t want to play but does want to keep getting paid.

    19. I don’t care how many times I hear about how Dallas doesn’t pay the luxury tax yadda yadda yadda, I will be absolutely shocked if a 26-19 team in a wobbly West trades their 2nd best player for a future oriented package.

    20. swiftandabundant:
      What would be a reasonable offer to Dallas for Brunson?

      Would Kemba, Obi and giving them back their 2023 pick be good on both sides?

      I like the idea a lot of getting Brunson here. Seems like if he was the starter with Rose as the backup and McBride developing, we’d be in much better shape at that position.

      That’s a lot to give up but probably worth it for the Knicks. And Obi might work well next to Zingis while Kemba would fit nicely next to Doncic (except for his injuries/defense). I still don’t think Dallas does it, though. We just don’t have a player right now that’s as good as Brunson.

    21. I hope this does set a precedent. I was talking about soccer yesterday. This is how it works in the rest of the world. You get to choose who you work for.

      I think you’re pretty dramatically oversimplifying the way things work in the soccer world. As a Spurs fan surely you’re intimately acquainted with the Harry Kane saga from this summer. He didn’t get to choose who he works for.

    22. thenamestsam: I would normally be inclined to agree with you except that all the reports are that his agents have made clear he’s going to be available to whatever team he gets traded to as soon as he gets his conditioning back. If he was going through some kind of legit mental health struggle, that’s not something that would be resolved as soon as he gets the trade he’s looking for. I do think he has obvious issues dealing with pressure that have manifested in a few ways throughout his career but also that it’s pretty obvious those issues are in no sense severe enough to cause him to be missing half a season and that he’s using it as an excuse right now because he doesn’t want to play but does want to keep getting paid.

      But what if the point is precisely that his mental health issues are directly connected to him being at Philadelphia, and he would be ready to play somewhere else because they think that’s at least a big part of the solution? It reminds me of when a good friend of mine had panic attacks while going to work in a place she hated, and a big part of her recovery was leaving that place and finding another job.

      I’m not even defending Simmons that much, and I’m not judging people like you or Max because I think it’s very reasonable to assume it’s been very embellished at least to build the narrative around his desire to be traded, but in my point of view both things can be and probably are true at the same time.

    23. @ShamsCharania
      Chicago Bulls guard Lonzo Ball has been diagnosed with a small meniscus tear in his left knee and is evaluating treatment options,

      Sources say there is hope Ball can monitor knee and play through it, but if he can’t, he may require a minor procedure which would sideline him for several weeks.

    24. One thing I really hate is Simmons’ using the “mental health” excuse to cover his ass for his decision not to workout or play with the team after his holdout try blew out.

      Mental health and depression are serious, important issues, many people and families suffer for them and to use them as a screen to duck fines because you’re too weak to face your teammates and fans is deplorable.

      Dude, I think it’s pretty fucked up that you discredit his mental health issues. And it says a lot about how the media unconsciously educates our minds on how to see things.

      Simone Biles says she has a mental health issue and every has her back. Ben Simmons says he has a mental health issue and everyone’s got pitchforks and torches. Why?

      (That’s a rhetorical question. I already know the answers will be regurgitated media talking points about the unique dangers of gymnastics and the entitled nature of NBA athletes.)

    25. All good NBA players are essentially assigned to a team at random for a minimum of 7 years for no reason other than that the owners of small market teams want it that way.

      Yes, and they get paid millions of dollars for their compensation. I know you’re going to probably say but the owners are billionaires. But lottery picks aren’t guaranteed to be any good, even the number one pick could be a bust. But even if they only play out their lottery rookie contract, they are set up for the rest of their life. And the only thing they have to put up with is spending a third of the year in Charlotte or OKC or New Orleans.

      Sign me up.

    26. If he was going through some kind of legit mental health struggle, that’s not something that would be resolved as soon as he gets the trade he’s looking for.

      Bruno tackled this already, but I just want to second him (not that he needs it). If his environment is the primary stressor on his mental health, and he’s removed himself from the toxic environment to rehabilitate his mental health, then it is perfectly reasonable that he would be ready to play in a new environment.

    27. thenoblefacehumper: Also, the fact that this is a legitimate discussion probably means we per se cannot put together a competitive Simmons package.

      I don’t think this really changes much vis-a-vis a Knicks package. First, if we want to go after Simmons the time to do it is by the trade deadline. Second, I think with Durant out, etc Harden will not be available at the deadline. Third, there will be other suitors for Harden and depending upon how things pan out for the Nets, Simmons may not be the direction they go.

    28. Frank Ntilikina isn’t set up for life financially, or even close. Taxes take a bunch, agents take a cut, most of these guys have family taking a cut. And he’s got 65 years-plus to go actuarially.

    29. Yes, and they get paid millions of dollars for their compensation.

      You bring up a good point. They’re also criminally underpaid.

    30. Bruno Almeida: But what if the point is precisely that his mental health issues are directly connected to him being at Philadelphia, and he would be ready to play somewhere else because they think that’s at least a big part of the solution? It reminds me of when a good friend of mine had panic attacks while going to work in a place she hated, and a big part of her recovery was leaving that place and finding another job.

      I’m not even defending Simmons that much, and I’m not judging people like you or Max because I think it’s very reasonable to assume it’s been very embellished at least to build the narrative around his desire to be traded, but in my point of view both things can be and probably are true at the same time.

      Yeah the point about it possibly being situation induced is legitimate. It just seems pretty clear to me based on the timeline of how things played out that he and his team made a determination that he was not going to play for Philly again in order to force a trade, then it became obvious that Morey was going to play this out slowly and holding out could cost him a ton of money and all the sudden his hold out evolved into “unavailable to play because of mental health issues” (wasn’t there also talk of some kind of back issue at some point?). There also has been no reporting whatsoever on the specific nature of whatever the issue is – on the one hand we’re not owed an explanation by him if he is having a legitimate issue, but on the other hand it definitely adds to the appearance that this is a cheap excuse.

    31. Alan:
      The reason I think Morey should take the best deal he can at this point is that Embiid’s body is something of a ticking time bomb. You don’t know how many more seasons you’re going to get of him playing at this level, and playing lots of games, so the calculus is different than it would be if he was as durable as LeBron used to be. This is a case where selling low is probably wiser than waiting for the optimal offer down the road.

      (Reposted from the end of yesterday’s thread.)

      100% It has to at least be a factor in the decision. If a deal is a close call, you pull the trigger now so you have a chance this year.

    32. Alan: Meanwhile, this Lakers season got even messier with Vogel benching Westbrook for the end of last night’s loss.

      Vogel has toed the company line with Westbrook all season, publicly praising him even when his performance didn’t warrant such praise. But he dropped that facade on Wednesday, if only momentarily. When asked postgame about his reasoning for not playing Westbrook down the stretch, Vogel didn’t mince his words.

      “Playing the guys that I thought were going to win the game,” Vogel said.

      I love how this is being reported as news. As everyone who’s ever watched basketball predicted, Westbrook has been terrible for the Lakers. He should’ve been benched weeks if not months ago.

      swiftandabundant: What would be a reasonable offer to Dallas for Brunson?

      Would Kemba, Obi and giving them back their 2023 pick be good on both sides?

      I like the idea a lot of getting Brunson here. Seems like if he was the starter with Rose as the back up and McBride developing, we’d be in much better shape at that position.

      I don’t think there is one. Why would Dallas want to trade their starting PG?

    33. it definitely adds to the appearance that this is a cheap excuse

      Ben Simmons had a clear and obvious mental breakdown on live television over the course of two weeks. And he was ridiculed for suffering it across the nation, by his peers, and by his employer. I see no reason to doubt him.

    34. I am curious why people keep thinking of trading Harden for Simmons. It would make a lot more sense to trade Kyrie, since Kyrie only plays away games for Brooklyn. What’s the reason?

    35. Knick fan not in NJ:
      I am curious why people keep thinking of trading Harden for Simmons. It would make a lot more sense to trade Kyrie, since Kyrie only plays away games for Brooklyn.What’s the reason?

      Harden is the one who hasn’t signed his long-term extension in Brooklyn and there have been some reports that he wanted to go to Philly last year/wants the Morey reunion.

    36. “swiftandabundant
      January 20, 2022 at 10:05 am
      What would be a reasonable offer to Dallas for Brunson?

      Would Kemba, Obi and giving them back their 2023 pick be good on both sides?

      I like the idea a lot of getting Brunson here. Seems like if he was the starter with Rose as the back up and McBride developing, we’d be in much better shape at that position.”

      Brunson is on a $1.8 million contract, so matching the money will be near impossible given the realities of the cap. With Dallas on a 10-1 hot streak, I doubt they will want to make any transaction regarding their core. Look for Cubn to get Brunson signed before he hits free agency.

    37. Frank Ntilikina isn’t set up for life financially, or even close. Taxes take a bunch, agents take a cut, most of these guys have family taking a cut. And he’s got 65 years-plus to go actuarially.

      might wanna google “sugar daddy”

    38. That being said, I do not think missing free throws in a playoff game qualifies as a “mental health issue” at least not in the same way as someone who is really battling depression. Depression, panic attacks, etc…that people with real mental health issues face…those people aren’t able to go out night after night and play NBA basketball for a living. They often can’t even get off the couch.

      Thank you for that.

      I’ve experienced choking because performance pressure.

      I’ve experienced a panic attack (thankfully not for a long time).

      They are light years apart.

      I might concede that if you are wired to experience anxiety and panic attacks you are probably more likely to have trouble dealing with performance pressures, but they are very different things. We all have different ability to handle pressure, but everyone chokes (except maybe Reggie Jackson ;-). Not everyone experiences severe anxiety and panic attacks.

    39. E, all merc’d out:
      Frank Ntilikina isn’t set up for life financially, or even close.Taxes take a bunch, agents take a cut, most of these guys have family taking a cut.And he’s got 65 years-plus to go actuarially.

      Rumor has it he has a modeling career lined up. :-)

    40. (except maybe Reggie Jackson ;-).

      it’s a little weird that the basketball reggie jackson has career shooting splits of 46.7, 34.5 and 85.4 but playoff splits of 52.9, 39.2 and 88.8 in 2K minutes.

    41. Frank’s career earnings are $20 million (estimate).

      His agent and manager each get 10 percent (4 million)

      So he has 16 million. If half of it is taxed, he has banked 8 million dollars. How is that not setting him up for life?

    42. Hubert: Ben Simmons had a clear and obvious mental breakdown on live television over the course of two weeks. And he was ridiculed for suffering it across the nation, by his peers, and by his employer. I see no reason to doubt him.

      Well for one thing he never said a thing about it until he found out the other reason he had already given for not showing up to work meant they were going to stop mailing him his checks. For another thing, 99% of the pressure you’re describing isn’t going to go away when he gets dealt. He’s still going to be under both the incredible public pressure that is the baseline for all professional athletes plus he’s going to have a massive target on his back still. It’s true that the toxic situation with his employer will be gone but he’s still going to be one of the most scrutinized players in a league where everyone is under a microscope, and yet he already knows that his anxiety will be cured. None of that is the least bit fishy to you?

    43. Brunson is on a $1.8 million contract, so matching the money will be near impossible given the realities of the cap. With Dallas on a 10-1 hot streak, I doubt they will want to make any transaction regarding their core. Look for Cubn to get Brunson signed before he hits free agency.

      Dallas has been looking for a player that can create and score off the dribble and make plays to take some of the pressure off Doncic. They didn’t realize they already had him until recently. They are in a tricky position. They probably still need another good player. If they give Brunson a big contract, it’s going to get very tricky for them to add another good piece. IMO they made an error with the Hardaway deal. I understand why they did it, but it was still a mistake. They paid WAY too much for a 6th man bench scorer than doesn’t defend.

    44. swiftandabundant: So he has 16 million. If half of it is taxed, he has banked 8 million dollars. How is that not setting him up for life?

      “I told you I needed to feed my family,” Sprewell said at a press conference yesterday. “They offered me 3 years at $21 million. That’s not going to cut it

    45. Well for one thing he never said a thing about it until he found out the other reason he had already given for not showing up to work meant they were going to stop mailing him his checks.

      ^^

      He never disclosed it publicly, but he was already in treatment with NBAPA doctors at the time it was disclosed. And he has the right to seek treatment privately.

    46. Hubert: Dude, I think it’s pretty fucked up that you discredit his mental health issues. And it says a lot about how the media unconsciously educates our minds on how to see things.

      I’m just waiting for something like this :-)

      Let’s recap the sequence of events:

      1. Simmons asks for a trade and then decide to holdout on the erroneous idea that he can recover his fines later.
      2. NBA and NBPA release statement saying that nothing guaranteed his fines will be recovered. His agent was wrong.
      3. He quickly decide to go to camp, act in the “cellphone in the pocket” show and behave like an ass with his teammates.
      4. Then, and only then, he declare he’s not mentally fit to play, because of “mental problems”, but refuses to meet with the team specialist even for a little chat.

      If, after point 2, Simmons would had said “I’m not okay, I have “mental issues” and I don’t give a fuck if you pay me or not, I’ll stay away from the team as long as I’ll feel right, fine me if you want while you find a trade”, then I’ll be more inclined to think is not faking.

      The sequence of event makes me just a bit skeptical.

      As a recidive depression case myself , I’ll never discredit someone who claims “mental problems” and in the past I quit working in some places because they were “unhealthy” for my “mental” well being, without even thinking about money.
      I don’t need to educate my mind, I’ve been there. More than once. And I wake up every day knowing I can return there.

      As I said before, I’m just a bit skeptical.

    47. Hubert:
      Well for one thing he never said a thing about it until he found out the other reason he had already given for not showing up to work meant they were going to stop mailing him his checks.

      ^^

      He never disclosed it publicly, but he was already in treatment with NBAPA doctors at the time it was disclosed.

      Fair, but there’s quite a large distance from having an issue for which you’re regularly or occasionally talking with a therapist (probably describes a good portion of us here) vs. having an issue which requires an indefinite paid leave from your job.

    48. he’s still going to be one of the most scrutinized players in a league where everyone is under a microscope, and yet he already knows that his anxiety will be cured.

      he’s not saying the anxiety will be cured. He’s saying it will be manageable. Again, this makes perfect sense if his work environment is a primary stressor. He will likely still have mental health issues on his next team, but if he has an environment that will support him instead of being a stressor, he believes he can manage them.

    49. Hubert:

      It remains greatest irony that American sports league are run like authoritarian communist regimes, and the rest of the world’s athletes enjoy the freedoms of democracy.

      You’re 100% right and it’s one of the funniest things ever.
      (If we think about baseball and the 6 vastly underpaid years before free agency, 3 of them at the minimum wage, it’s probably even worse, it’s maybe closer to slavery than communism).

    50. but there’s quite a large distance from having an issue for which you’re regularly or occasionally talking with a therapist (probably describes a good portion of us here) vs. having an issue which requires an indefinite paid leave from your job.

      Indeed there is. Ben Simmons has the latter, most of us have the former.

      No one who needs indefinite leave to address a serious mental health issue should be forced to sacrifice his income or be publicly humiliated for doing so. The 76er organization, IMHO, crossed a significant moral line.

    51. swiftandabundant:
      Frank’s career earnings are $20 million (estimate).

      His agent and manager each get 10 percent (4 million)

      So he has 16 million. If half of it is taxed, he has banked 8 million dollars. How is that not setting him up for life?

      For the simple reason that you can’t live for 65 years on $8 million. You can’t even come close to living for 65 years on $8 million. Google, “Can I retire at age 24 with $8 million?”

    52. For fucks sake, guys. Anthony Bourdain hung himself and y’all acting like being rich & famous means you can’t really have major depressive disorder and you shouldn’t be allowed paid leave to treat it.

    53. Hubert: Simone Biles says she has a mental health issue and every has her back. Ben Simmons says he has a mental health issue and everyone’s got pitchforks and torches. Why?

      I was going to let this go, but now that there has been continuing and quite unseemly questioning of Ben Simmons’s bona fides, I’ll give the obvious answer:

      Because the approved narratives corporate media cobbles together and then relentlessly promulgates are almost always, in whole or in part, silly and/or fictitious.

    54. Hubert: Indeed there is. Ben Simmons has the latter, most of us have the former.

      No one who needs indefinite leave to address a serious mental health issue should be forced to sacrifice his income or be publicly humiliated for doing so. The 76er organization, IMHO, crossed a significant moral line.

      So he has an incredibly serious mental health issue which has forced him to miss 6 months of work but which he and everyone else expects will be immediately and permanently cured upon the removal of one key stressor which just so happens to line up with something he wants for other reasons also. I guess I’m just fundamentally a less credulous person than you but I’m never going to buy it.

      Let me put it to you this way: If I set the line at 0.5 games missed for mental health reasons for his career once he is traded, you taking the over or the under?

    55. Max: You’re 100% right and it’s one of the funniest things ever.
      (If we think about baseball and the 6 vastly underpaid years before free agency, 3 of them at the minimum wage, it’s probably even worse, it’s maybe closer to slavery than communism).

      It’s actually more ironic because in the purportedly free-market US, the state subsidizes huge proportions of the for-profit sports stadiums.

    56. Then, and only then, he declare he’s not mentally fit to play, because of “mental problems”, but refuses to meet with the team specialist even for a little chat.

      As I said earlier, he should not have had to ever declare it. The important thing is that he was seeking treatment for it. And he was, according to the NBAPA. He was doing it privately, as is his right.

      As for the team specialist, honestly, you need to stop and think how fucked up that was.

      If you go see a psychiatrist, and they diagnose you with something and recommend a course of action that requires you to not return to work, that’s it. End of story. Your psychiatist informs your employer of the recommended course of action, and the employers complies.

      Under no circumstances is the employer allowed to disclose to the world what you’re suffering from. And they have no right to send their own psychiatist, paid for by them, to do his own analysis. The conflict of interest is obvious.

      Imagine calling out sick to work and your employer responds by sending an email to entire company telling them you’re suffering from irritable bowel movement, and that they want you to come to the office to see the resident doctor, who is on the company payroll, and whose job it is to make employees come back to work.

    57. Hubert:
      damn, 16 assists for McBride last night.

      Let’s get this guy some PT.

      Even before Omicron began sending the better G-Leaguers to fill in at the NBA level, it was hard to tell how much play there translated to NBA success. (I’m still not sure, for instance, that New Luka is anything more than the basketball equivalent of a AAAA baseball player who’s too good for the minors but not good enough for the majors.) With the G-League so disrupted by Covid, it feels like even less of an accurate barometer. And Deuce had his ups and (mostly) downs on offense during his brief stint with us. I’d be happy to see him get more run, but I don’t know if he’s big league ready just yet.

    58. swiftandabundant: That being said, I do not think missing free throws in a playoff game qualifies as a “mental health issue” at least not in the same way as someone who is really battling depression. Depression, panic attacks, etc…that people with real mental health issues face…those people aren’t able to go out night after night and play NBA basketball for a living. They often can’t even get off the couch.

      There’s so much in this thread (not just your post) to respond to, and this is a larger response to it. I think we should be able to distinguish between “mentally weak” and “mentally weak on a basketball court.” I’m not confident that we could have a productive conversation about what “mentally weak” means to the general population. Was it the maskless, IPA-bloated, middle-aged frat bro who, in a moment of instant rage, got right in my face and told me, in front of countless strangers, that he was going to punch me out for telling him he cut the line at the sushi bar? Was I mentally weak for saying, “Okay, big guy, yup, okay,” while putting my palms out and putting space between us to diffuse the situation? Were the Portland strangers mentally weak for staying totally silent and just watching the whole thing happen? And was I mentally weak for making a mental note of his license plate and fantasizing about burning his house down with his family inside it? All of the above?

      “Mentally weak” on a basketball court has and should have nothing to do with a person’s value off the court, but there’s often a raging boner for justice in the relationship between player ability and player compensation. Simmons would not get nearly this much shit if he were an MLE player. Remember when rookie Courtney Lee blew a game-winning layup in the fucking Finals? The average fan doesn’t. Because he hadn’t yet gotten $400M from Phil Jackson to lead an NBA…

    59. So he has an incredibly serious mental health issue which has forced him to miss 6 months of work but which he and everyone else expects will be immediately and permanently cured upon the removal of one key stressor which just so happens to line up with something he wants for other reasons also. I guess I’m just fundamentally a less credulous person than you but I’m never going to buy it.

      Let me put it to you this way: If I set the line at 0.5 games missed for mental health reasons for his career once he is traded, you taking the over or the under?

      I respect your opinion. But I think you are oversimplifying a complex condition.

      Most people who take time off for mental never have to do it again. That doesn’t mean they never had a real issue. It means that time off to heal and make the necessary adjustments to their life (which sometimes include moving or changing jobs) can be incredibly effective at reducing mental stress to a manageable level.

    60. For the simple reason that you can’t live for 65 years on $8 million. You can’t even come close to living for 65 years on $8 million. Google, “Can I retire at age 24 with $8 million?”

      Cool. So he takes 5 of the 8 million and invests it in super conservative funds that grow 6 to 8 percent annually and he can have like 40 to 50 million in bank by age 65. In the meantime, since he’s a former NBA player, he can play basketball in any number of leagues around the world, get into coaching if he wants at pretty much any level, maybe be an announcer or commentator. He would be totally fine. Even if he needed a few years after he stopped playing basketball to figure out what he wanted to do with his life, he could take that 3 million he hasn’t invested and live anywhere he wants while going back to school, getting training, you name it.

      Not to mention the commercial and sponsorship opportunities available to him.

      My family is from Lexington, Kentucky. A former UK basketball player who doesn’t even make it to the pros can pretty much get set up with any number of jobs with local businesses in the Lexington or Louisville just based on the fact that they played for UK.

    61. Remember when rookie Courtney Lee blew a game-winning layup in the fucking Finals? The average fan doesn’t. Because he hadn’t yet gotten $400M from Phil Jackson to lead an NBA…

      You are not mentally weak for your reaction in that situation at all.

      Re: courtney lee. He was a rookie. Ben Simmons is an multiple all-star. That difference matters as far as what fans expect.

      Also, courtney lee didn’t miss a layup. Yes, he was “open” and it was reasonable to think he should have made that. But it was an inbounds lob with like 2 seconds left. It’s not like he grabbed a steal and ran down the court wide open and missed a lay up. He ran off a screen and had to shake his man in order to be open and the pass was a lob. I wouldn’t say that was an “easy lay up.”

      But thanks for the blast from the past with that play. I was a big fan of that Magic team.

    62. I’d love to see the people talking about Simmons here send emails to their coworkers, or make blog posts or Instagram posts, saying the exact same things about Naomi Osaka or Simone Biles.

    63. Hubert: I respect your opinion. But I think you are oversimplifying a complex condition.

      Most people who take time off for mental never have to do it again. That doesn’t mean they never had a real issue. It means that time off to heal and make the necessary adjustments to their life (which sometimes include moving or changing jobs) can be incredibly effective at reducing mental stress to a manageable level.

      I respect your opinion too. I mean it when I say that I think a big difference here is that I’m just being more skeptical than you and I don’t think skepticism is particularly a positive trait. I’m not trying to oversimplify mental health which is obviously complex – the reason I’m simplifying is because we don’t really have that much information about the situation. I agree with you that it’s possible that he’s completely telling the truth and he just happens to have a condition which very closely resembles what it would look like if he was using mental health as a cheap excuse. I’m just…skeptical, that’s all.

    64. E, all merc’d out:
      I’d love to see the people talking about Simmons here send emails to their coworkers, or make blog posts or Instagram posts, saying the exact same things about Naomi Osaka or Simone Biles.

      Talk about oversimplification lol. I’m not sure every situation that comes up if you do a google search for “Sports” and “Mental Health” is identical.

    65. I know I’m not going to change the national narrative of mental health in the comments section of a knicks blog, but we need to reprogram our brains on this. Remember “Believe Women”? It was concentrated thought reform to make it easier for women to come forward by eliminating skepticism and doubt.

      For the same reasons, you should believe someone when they say they have a mental health issue. Especially a man, because they suffer from it the most and they seek treatment for it the least (largely because we have been programmed to ridicule and cast doubt on them if they come forward with it).

      The prevalence of depression and suicide for men — like the prevalence of sexual assault for women — means that if someone is claiming a severe mental health issue, there’s a good chance they’re telling the truth. Don’t be the equivalent of the person who says things like “I don’t buy her story, why was she dressed like that then?”

    66. I am sympathetic for Simmons or anybody else experiencing legitimate mental struggles, whether on or off the court. But it comes down to, for the Sixers and their potential trade partners, whether a guy that can’t emotionally handle standing in front of 20,000 people and putting a ball through a basket is worth paying $177,000,000 to stand in front of 20,000 and put a ball through a basket. If the pressure of living up to the contract is too great, I don’t really know what the solution to that is, other than walking away from it. Larry Sanders did it. Not sure if he got better from it or not. Bison Dele did it. I do know his condition did not improve.

    67. That makes a lot of sense; the only problem is that someone saying something about their mental health typically isn’t a witness in a criminal matter that can send the alleged perpetrator to prison for a very long time. That entirely changes the dynamic.

    68. swiftandabundant: Cool. So he takes 5 of the 8 million and invests it in super conservative funds that grow 6 to 8 percent annually and he can have like 40 to 50 million in bank by age 65.

      can you send me the info on that “super convservative” investment that gets 6 to 8% annually…i will cut the check later today to get in on that….but seriously, sure…it is doable but he may have to make some lifestyle changes (and you also ignore inflation in there or perhaps it is baked into the 6 to 8%)….

    69. E, all merc’d out: It’s actually more ironic because in the purportedly free-market US, the state subsidizes huge proportions of the for-profit sports stadiums.

      i think all the leagues have had their tussle with anti-trust/restraint of trade legal issues…withouth googling it…isn’t the formation of player unions and then collectively bargained work rules the work around the fact that the leagues get to operate as oligopolies ….i.e., the workers join the union…the union bargains on their behalf and they accept the rules…they have the right to bow out and not play…this is not communism…

    70. My 21 year old son tested positive for Covid yesterday. He was pretty sick on Monday and Tuesday but was somewhat better yesterday and today. He almost certainly got it at work. My wife and I don’t have any symptoms, though hard to imagine we don’t have it too since he lives with us. We’re triple vaxxed, so we should be fine. We’ve quarantined ourselves for two days now and will do through the weekend.

      As for Simmons, I have no idea if he legitimately has a mental health problem. If he’s lying about that, shame on him, but if not, I hope he gets the help he needs. As for superficially diagnosing him from afar, I’ll leave that to Dr. Todd Grande…

    71. they have the right to bow out and not play…this is not communism…

      Here’s the thing I don’t get about the NBAPA, though: when will they figure out that they don’t need owners any more?

      I think the bubble proved that it would be pretty easy for them to form a breakaway league. Used to be you needed the arena to generate the revenue. Not anymore.

      They can get startup capital from hedge funds and PE firms to pay player wages in the beginning. Players’ salaries wouldn’t be as high but their shares in the mutually owned league would be more valuable than anything they’re likely to ever earn in income.

      Hell they could play outside and ESPN will throw a bazillion dollars at them for the TV rights.

    72. ptmilo:
      have heard a lot of miles bridges for MIP but maybe this guy should be in pole position
      https://tinyurl.com/y55bthvy

      That’s really a massive improvement, his best BPM before this season was 0.8 (last season), and now he’s a 4.9 BPM !? :O
      Dejounte Murray was one of my trade ideas, although in the recent SAS-Knicks game he didn’t look like a true PG to me, but probably he’d solve our hole at the position even if he’s another combo-guard. What i don’t know is what would it take for SAS to trade him… probably a lot, so back to the drawing board.

    73. swiftandabundant: So he has 16 million. If half of it is taxed, he has banked 8 million dollars. How is that not setting him up for life?

      Sort of. That’s 123k/yr if he never makes another penny and didn’t already spend half of it on wine, women, soft cheeses, and (bad accordion) song (and based on the earlier actuarial assumption of 65 years to go).

      Edit: and yes, I know that’s not how it’s actually calculated. But it also explains why I can never retire…

    74. I don’t think having a mental health issue and then using it to achieve some other goal are mutually exclusive.

      It’s somewhat standard procedure at my workplace to have all non-management employees have their monitors facing towards the front of the office. This puts a person’s back to the door. It allows others to see what’s on someone’s screens.

      After recently transferring positions within my company, I was offered a new office. I declined and stated I would work from home (still an option due to Covid). In my email I included a bit of my medical history and why having my back to the door would not be beneficial to my health. I wanted to ensure I’d have the opportunity to do what I felt would be best for me.

      I don’t know what’s going on upstairs with Ben. I’ve watched him play basketball. I’ve heard him speak briefly during interviews; however, I don’t know the man.

      From a team perspective and possibly acquiring Ben in a trade, I’d want to go over his medical situation as closely as someone whom has had a serious knee/shoulder/foot/etc. issue.

      As an aside, since working from home my house is a whole lot cleaner, and most importantly – I’ve only put on pants once in the last three weeks.

    75. Hi Clashfan, sorry to hear about your son. Have you considered trying one of those Covid home tests?

      I’m not sure exactly how it might help if you’re already quarantining. It may provide some peace of mind to be a little more sure of your status.

      Geo

    76. TheClashFan: My 21 year old son tested positive for Covid yesterday. He was pretty sick on Monday and Tuesday but was somewhat better yesterday and today. He almost certainly got it at work. My wife and I don’t have any symptoms, though hard to imagine we don’t have it too since he lives with us. We’re triple vaxxed, so we should be fine. We’ve quarantined ourselves for two days now and will do through the weekend.

      Hey Clash, i hope you and your family can go through this without anymore symptoms, and speedy recovery to the three of you. It is important to get tested, for the country stats. The authorities make their decisions based on the numbers they have, so it’d be helpful to them to know if you and your wife have covid or not.

    77. Milo and the Anonymities: yes soze…i am in fact one of the anonymities…

      Hahaha. Yeah, me too. Half the time i don’t know what Milo is talking about. LOL. Although recently he has come down to earth and is posting some understandable stuff… like basketball.

    78. we’re really fortunate to have a good number of exceptional folks whom see knickerblogger as their secret hideaway clubhouse…Mike K and BC have really done an amazing job at creating such an inclusive and “safe” environment…

      yeah it’s funny, at his best milo is barely comprehensible (which is actually pretty perfect for the circumstances), we’re lucky to have him locked in here with us…

    79. it all makes sense when you figure out that every single post here is from me, except for the wellness checks from my court appointed therapist, dr hubert. yes, even yours.

    80. Dejounte Murray’s improvement is a big lesson I think that development in the NBA can be very weirdly non-linear. Everyone would say, after his first 3 seasons, that he had potential to be very good if he learned how to shoot. Well guess what, he has a 5 BPM and clearly reaching very good status, while still shooting like garbage. He’s 13th in the league in BPM with a .500 ts%, the next guy in the BPM list with a similar ts% is Vucevic at 72nd with a 1.1 BPM.

      Granted, statistical anomalies like this tend to correct themselves over time, and BPM obviously has its own issues, but it’s at least very curious to see.

    81. All he had to do was hit a few a jumpshots and free throws… very difficult for an nba guard I guess … but perhaps those mental issues have contributed to that issue since he started playing basketball … which begs to question his qualifications as an nba player … it’s a rabbit and endless hole of speculation … whatever the guys issue is, real or not, I hope he can figure it out cause I’m not a genuine hater … but I don’t want him to be a knick …

    82. Well, taking his word about the mental health issues, which i think everybody should do, because it’s a serious issue and if later it’s revealed he faked it, he’ll have to suffer the consequences. For now, the matter should be handled as what it is, a mental health problem.
      But now that i think of it, yeah if he has mental health issues, the Knicks are on the top of the list of teams that he should avoid. NY media, and fans, can be brutal. Not at all the best environment to fight mental health issues.

    83. Donnie Walsh:
      I am sympathetic for Simmons or anybody else experiencing legitimate mental struggles, whether on or off the court. But it comes down to, for the Sixers and their potential trade partners, whether a guy that can’t emotionally handle standing in front of 20,000 people and putting a ball through a basket is worth paying $177,000,000 to stand in front of 20,000 and put a ball through a basket. If the pressure of living up to the contract is too great, I don’t really know what the solution to that is, other than walking away from it. Larry Sanders did it. Not sure if he got better from it or not. Bison Dele did it. I do know his condition did not improve.

      Agreed. To me it’s very unlikely that Philly is the actual stressor- if Doc or Embid were really bullying him prior to his playoff disaster it’d have come out by now. Clearly he’s got some degree of performance anxiety but that will follow him wherever he goes.

      And with Frank- a 2% return on $5M is 100K with minimal taxes so Manhattan’s probably out unless he Kevin Knox want to get a share in Inwood but Frank should be just fine.

    84. it all makes sense when you figure out that every single post here is from me, except for the wellness checks from my court appointed therapist, dr hubert. yes, even yours.

      Are you real, Geo? Or are you just a figment of ptmilo’s imagination that he’s created to talk to?

    85. I’m so jealous of Frank Ntilikina getting all this free financial advice. Someone needs to contact him on Twitter and point him to this thread…

    86. are you just a figment of ptmilo’s imagination that he’s created to talk to?

      i’ve actually given some thought to exactly where i might fit in to milo’s psyche…although i might fancy myself to be The Senses Taker, chances are most likely that i’m simply The Humbug…

    87. I’ve been reading the new Chris Herring book on the 90s team instead of arguing about Ben Simmons all day and I can confirm it’s worth all the hype and then some. Truly cannot put it down.

    88. thenamestsam: Harden is the one who hasn’t signed his long-term extension in Brooklyn and there have been some reports that he wanted to go to Philly last year/wants the Morey reunion.

      Thanks, Thenamestsam

    89. Brunson is on a $1.8 million contract, so matching the money will be near impossible given the realities of the cap. With Dallas on a 10-1 hot streak, I doubt they will want to make any transaction regarding their core. Look for Cubn to get Brunson signed before he hits free agency.

      He’s almost assuredly played himself past the extension that they can sign him to in-season. I don’t see how he doesn’t get to the market (at which point they will likely re-sign him).

    90. I read he is looking for 4 yr $80 million, which is starter money. I’m hoping they don’t want to pay that much. Sending them their pick back and Grimes or Quickley is a good offer, unless they think they can win it all this year.

    91. They are starting the guy now, so I think they’ll be fine with it. But yes, I do agree that their cap is a bit stuffed with that fugly looking THJ deal.

    92. “this year’s 31% clip from behind the arc is the third highest of Randle’s career. But Randle also ranks among the top five in difficulty of shots created off the dribble, per Second Spectrum’s tracking. He has also run a league-leading 651 isolation and post-up plays this season; among the 31 players who have run at least 225 such plays, Randle ranks 27th in efficiency.

      Randle has seen his points per drive drop from 1.12 last season — which was just outside the league’s top 10 — to 1.03, which ranks 32nd out of 63 players with at least 100 direct drives this season, per Second Spectrum.”

      ESPN article on the difficulty of expectations for the Knicks.

    93. Didn’t realize they were still starting him with Doncic back.

      Yeah, their hot streak has been noted by two things, the most important, of course, is that Luka is back and playing like Luka, but the other is keeping Brunson in the starting lineup paired with Luka.

    94. @NYPost_Berman
      Thibodeau said Cam Reddish will play “any day now.”

      @FredKatz
      Tom Thibodeau says Cam Reddish is “pretty close” to returning but still no specific timetable on when he could be back from the ankel injury.

    95. TheClashFan:
      I’m so jealous of Frank Ntilikina getting all this free financial advice.Someone needs to contact him on Twitter and point him to this thread…

      I think he likes hanging out with models more than working on finishing at the rim or discussing his 401K.

    96. thenoblefacehumper:
      I’ve been reading the new Chris Herring book on the 90s team instead of arguing about Ben Simmons all day and I can confirm it’s worth all the hype and then some. Truly cannot put it down.

      I did not lie.

    97. Maybe my memory is off, but when we were discussing VanVleet as a potential free agent option at PG I seem to recall more people thought paying him around 20m was too much. Not that I know exactly what either is worth or what their future holds, but I think I’d argue that VanVleet was more proven at that point than Brunson is now. So how do we feel about 20m for Brunson?

    98. “this year’s 31% clip from behind the arc is the third highest of Randle’s career. But Randle also ranks among the top five in difficulty of shots created off the dribble, per Second Spectrum’s tracking. He has also run a league-leading 651 isolation and post-up plays this season; among the 31 players who have run at least 225 such plays, Randle ranks 27th in efficiency.

      There are at least 2 ways of looking at this.

      1. He’s taking a lot of difficult shots because the Knicks lack spacing and a good PG.

      2. His shot selection and decision making are both terrible.

      Two years ago I thought it was mostly #1.

      Right now I think it’s more #2 even if #1 is a factor. We brought in Kemba and Fournier to help him, but the shot selection and decision making hasn’t changed.

    99. It’s a risk, but he already is what we hope one of our young pg’s develops into. I don’t see any better options out there. Who else would you spend the money on?

    100. Deeefense!!:
      Maybe my memory is off, but when we were discussing VanVleet as a potential free agent option at PG I seem to recall more people thought paying him around 20m was too much.Not that I know exactly what either is worth or what their future holds, but I think I’d argue that VanVleet was more proven at that point than Brunson is now.So how do we feel about 20m for Brunson?

      As I mentioned in the last thread $20M is slightly higher but very close to the median salary for starting point guards this season. I expect salaries to go up over time. So if you’re paying him that in a year or two it’s not outrageous, but not a bargain either.

    101. Well, if we are ready to give Brunson 20m, we probably should have made a serious enough move on VanVleet to make him have to consider leaving Toronto.

    102. ***Dejounte Murray’s improvement is a big lesson I think that development in the NBA can be very weirdly non-linear. Everyone would say, after his first 3 seasons, that he had potential to be very good if he learned how to shoot. Well guess what, he has a 5 BPM and clearly reaching very good status, while still shooting like garbage.***

      Dejounte Murray is the Frank Ntilikina that Strat promised us.

      (re:non-linear development, Murray blew out his knee and missed an entire season, so that kind of skews those “first 3 seasons” a bit. But, per the musings of the Stratomatic one, the Spurs did have to commit money to Murray based only on his potential or lose him to FA. If it was us, we’d probably have been calling that 4/$64,000,000 deal he got after just 2000 rather bad and injury ravaged nba minutes a bad idea. Turned out to be a good idea. I guess Pop and Buford still got it, hmm.)

    103. Maybe my memory is off, but when we were discussing VanVleet as a potential free agent option at PG I seem to recall more people thought paying him around 20m was too much. Not that I know exactly what either is worth or what their future holds, but I think I’d argue that VanVleet was more proven at that point than Brunson is now. So how do we feel about 20m for Brunson?

      No, the debate was that for the Knicks to get VanVleet, they would have to max him out. He had pretty much universal support for $20 million, but he clearly wasn’t leaving Toronto for $20 million. So it was a question of “Should they max him?” and there, there were plenty of folks who thought it wasn’t a good idea, but and even there, there was a decent amount of support for that plan, but as it turned out, he had no intentions of ever leaving Toronto, so the question never really progressed much beyond that.

    104. Deeefense!!: So how do we feel about 20m for Brunson?

      I’m in favor of a slight overpay, like 4/90M, which is 22.5M AAV. It’s just that if we don’t overpay for the options available, like FVV at that time, then we can’t find an alternative settling for poor solutions like Elfrid, DSJ, Frank, Mudiay, Burke, Jack. I’ve had enough of that. Let’s overpay a little, to make Dallas hesitate, and maybe that helps him decide to come here.
      If we can’t get Brunson, an ok backup plan is to offer 12M AAV to Tyus Jones. I don’t know if he’s starting material, but at least he has some potential and it’d be refreshing to sign a guy we can have hope, unlike Elfrid that we all knew was a bad move at the time of the signing.

    105. Every agent floats their guy “is going to NY” to create as much leverage as possible. As Brian pointed out, Dallas will most likely keep him now that he is in the starting lineup and playing well with Doncic. I don’t see anyone else out there, so we need one of the kids to grow up fast.

    106. Deeefense!!: I think he likes hanging out with models more than working on finishing at the rim or discussing his 401K.

      That might explain Frank’s frequent groin pulls…

    107. I’d happily pay Brunson $20M AAV, but it’s worth noting we won’t be a cap space team this offseason so in order to do that we’d have to either unload contracts or make it a sign-and-trade.

      Fournier (or Randle…) and their own 2023 pick would work.

    108. Brian Cronin: No, the debate was that for the Knicks to get VanVleet, they would have to max him out. He had pretty much universal support for $20 million, but he clearly wasn’t leaving Toronto for $20 million. So it was a question of “Should they max him?” and there, there were plenty of folks who thought it wasn’t a good idea, but and even there, there was a decent amount of support for that plan, but as it turned out, he has no intentions of ever leaving Toronto, so the question never really progressed much beyond that.

      What was the difference between 20m and the max for him?

      He may have wanted to go back to Toronto, but imo if we flashed enough green at him he would have talked to us. Its a matter of how much more we would have needed to offer to get his interest without doing anything crazy.

      Either way you can see my point. I’d argue VanVleet was proven at that point than Brunson is now but we don’t seem to be balking at 20m for Brunson. That means we could have offered VanVleet more than he’s getting paid and been comfortable.

    109. Strat, both Knicks teams play at the same time. Which game will you watch? The Knicks East or the Knicks West?

    110. Donnie Walsh:

      Dejounte Murray is the Frank Ntilikina that Strat promised us.

      Murray showed more talent than Frank early, but that’s the gist of it. IMO, a lot of what’s going to happen is God given talent, but a lot of it also work ethic, basketball IQ, and developmental coaching. You have to really want it.

      I always felt Frank instinctively understood the best way to play (defend hard, make the extra pass, take the right shot, sacrifice for the team etc..) and all the reports were that he was a really hard worker. So I was betting on him becoming an even better plus defender and more than adequate on offense over time. But he was so ridiculously raw and immature, I knew it would take a long time. The clock was ticking. I’ve been a little disappointed in the pace of his progress, but I think he IS still improving slowly and it’s not too late for him to put it all together and become a solid NBA player. If not, it won’t be the first or last time I’m wrong about a player.

      Thibs said it best.

      ‘Get Back In The Gym’

    111. cybersoze:
      Strat, both Knicks teams play at the same time. Which game will you watch? The Knicks East or the Knicks West?

      Office TV on, tablet on my desk with Dallas, a beer, snacks, and Xanax (just in case the Knicks are melting down in the 4th quarter or Frank is on the FT with the Dallas game on the line). :-)

    112. Every agent floats their guy “is going to NY” to create as much leverage as possible. As Brian pointed out, Dallas will most likely keep him now that he is in the starting lineup and playing well with Doncic. I don’t see anyone else out there, so we need one of the kids to grow up fast.

      other than SGA and Ball, i can’t think of a lot of other young point guards who’ve moved…i mean Dangelo Russell has bounced around a bit, Terry Rozier moved, Jordan Clarkson maybe?

      I must be forgetting some others…

      There have been though some decent vets who’ve moved around: CP3, Mike Conley, Reggie Jackson (playing very well now)…

      i’m sure there are others – for some inexplicable reason though the New York Knickerbockers seemed appalled by the idea of securing starting level talent at the point guard position…

      this situation has truly turned out to be one of the greatest enigmas of my life…

    113. ha – after i posted that last thing – i looked and wondered: who the fuck is milo and the whatever that other stuff is, and what in the hell is that picture???

      sometimes i seem weird to even me…

    114. Milo and the Anonymities: this situation has truly turned out to be one of the greatest enigmas of my life…

      Mine too. I think this plan of trying to win a championship with a PG-less team has been as successful as a certain geometric figure we had some seasons ago.

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