Knicks Morning News (2022.01.16)

  • Tom Thibodeau: Cam Reddish will have to earn minutes with Knicks – New York Post
    [nypost.com] — Sunday, January 16, 2022 4:28:00 AM

    Tom Thibodeau: Cam Reddish will have to earn minutes with Knicks  New York Post The New York Knicks Have Waived A Player  Sports Illustrated3 questions about the Knicks in the remainder of 2022 season  ClutchPoints3 players the NY Knicks should entertain trades for post-Cam Reddish deal  Daily KnicksIf the Knicks can unlock Cam Reddish’s best basketball they will walk away with a steal  Empire Sports MediaView Full Coverage on Google News

  • NBA: New York Knicks at Atlanta Hawks – Gwinnettdailypost.com
    [www.gwinnettdailypost.com] — Sunday, January 16, 2022 12:29:05 AM

    NBA: New York Knicks at Atlanta Hawks  Gwinnettdailypost.com

  • Dallas Mavericks’ Jalen Brunson remains on Knicks’ radar ahead of Feb. 10 trade deadline – Yahoo Sports
    [sports.yahoo.com] — Sunday, January 16, 2022 12:15:00 AM

    Dallas Mavericks’ Jalen Brunson remains on Knicks’ radar ahead of Feb. 10 trade deadline  Yahoo Sports

  • RJ Barrett, Julius Randle propel Knicks past rival Hawks – New York Post
    [nypost.com] — Saturday, January 15, 2022 10:22:00 PM

    RJ Barrett, Julius Randle propel Knicks past rival Hawks  New York Post Knicks Drop Hawks 117-108. RJ Barrett Scores 26 Points  si.comKnicks 117, Hawks 108: Scenes from a total team effort in the clutch  Posting and ToastingHawks vs. Knicks: How to watch NBA online, TV channel, live stream info, game time  CBS SportsJulius Randle scores 24 as Knicks beat Hawks, 117-108  New York Daily NewsView Full Coverage on Google News

  • Knicks vs. Hawks – Game Recap – January 15, 2022 – ESPN
    [www.espn.com] — Saturday, January 15, 2022 10:16:33 PM

    Knicks vs. Hawks – Game Recap – January 15, 2022  ESPNRJ Barrett, Julius Randle propel Knicks past rival Hawks  New York Post Knicks 117, Hawks 108: Scenes from a total team effort in the clutch  Posting and ToastingNew York Knicks at Atlanta Hawks odds, picks and predictions  USA TODAY Sportsbook WireHawks vs. Knicks: How to watch NBA online, TV channel, live stream info, game time  CBS SportsView Full Coverage on Google News

  • Knicks vs. Hawks – Game Recap – January 15, 2022 – ESPN
    [www.espn.com] — Saturday, January 15, 2022 10:11:36 PM

    Knicks vs. Hawks – Game Recap – January 15, 2022  ESPN

  • N.Y. Knicks 117, Atlanta 108 – The Advocate
    [www.stamfordadvocate.com] — Saturday, January 15, 2022 10:11:35 PM

    N.Y. Knicks 117, Atlanta 108  The Advocate

  • Game thread: Hawks vs. Knicks – Peachtree Hoops
    [www.peachtreehoops.com] — Saturday, January 15, 2022 7:50:04 PM

    Game thread: Hawks vs. Knicks  Peachtree Hoops

  • Nerlens Noel (knee) ruled out for Knicks on Saturday – numberFire
    [www.numberfire.com] — Saturday, January 15, 2022 7:25:00 PM

    Nerlens Noel (knee) ruled out for Knicks on Saturday  numberFire

  • Knicks Starting Lineup Against The Hawks – Sports Illustrated
    [www.si.com] — Saturday, January 15, 2022 7:23:18 PM

    Knicks Starting Lineup Against The Hawks  Sports Illustrated

  • NBA Betting Picks & Predictions: Our 4 Best Bets, Including Knicks vs. Hawks & Magic vs. Mavericks (Saturday, Jan. 15) – The Action Network
    [www.actionnetwork.com] — Saturday, January 15, 2022 5:28:00 PM

    NBA Betting Picks & Predictions: Our 4 Best Bets, Including Knicks vs. Hawks & Magic vs. Mavericks (Saturday, Jan. 15)  The Action Network

  • Knicks will play a matinee game on MLK day | Here’s how to get tickets for the family – SILive.com
    [www.silive.com] — Saturday, January 15, 2022 4:10:00 PM

    Knicks will play a matinee game on MLK day | Here’s how to get tickets for the family  SILive.com

  • Knicks Go Headlines Eclipse Award Finalists – America’s Best Racing
    [www.americasbestracing.net] — Saturday, January 15, 2022 2:49:44 PM

    Knicks Go Headlines Eclipse Award Finalists  America’s Best Racing

  • Kemba Walker’s Injury Status For Knicks-Hawks Game – Sports Illustrated
    [www.si.com] — Saturday, January 15, 2022 2:34:28 PM

    Kemba Walker’s Injury Status For Knicks-Hawks Game  Sports Illustrated

  • The New York Knicks Have Waived A Player – Sports Illustrated
    [www.si.com] — Saturday, January 15, 2022 11:57:04 AM

    The New York Knicks Have Waived A Player  Sports IllustratedTom Thibodeau: Cam Reddish will have to earn minutes with Knicks  New York Post 3 questions about the Knicks in the remainder of 2022 season  ClutchPointsKnicks Acquire Cam Reddish  Knicks.comGrading the Atlanta Hawks trading Cam Reddish to the New York Knicks  Soaring Down SouthView Full Coverage on Google News

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    102 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2022.01.16)”

    1. Nice win, it’s always a pleasure to ruin Trae Young’s night.

      After two months of bad attitude (that started well before the Covid spike), horrible defense and disgruntled efforts, all of a sudden this team is playing for long stretches as many of us hoped and envisioned before the season (hello Leon!) and I’m very happy with that.

      The refs whistled everything in a snail-pace 1st, then we had a daydream 2nd, followed by a tentative (but not disastrous) 3rd.
      The 4th was tense, the Hawks’ bench hoisted them up to 91-93 then Evan put on his D’Artagnan’s costume and with two thrusts restore order. Everyone followed suit and the execution down the stretch was nearly spotless.

      Stat Of The Game:
      Taking advantage of Capela’s absence the Knicks outrebounded the Hawks 44-31, including 11-4 on the offensive boards.

      Play Of The Game:
      With 4:03 to go Young cut the lead to 3, then on the following play Randle found RJ for a cold blooded corner three that started a 10-0 Knicks’ run. Game over.

    2. My grades, I’m feeling in a good mood so I’m gonna be generous :-)

      Randle A- (24, 9, 6)
      At first I thought I added half a vote to avoid the “hate” allegations, but then I decided it’s my sign of encouragement toward Julius and his renewed effort to play diffferently.
      In a 4:47 stretch of the 2nd that was probably his most dominant run of the year, Randle scored or assisted 18 straight points as our lead went from 4 to 13.
      Some of the shots were of the “result over process” kind but he finished with 9 assists and 0 turnovers and tried on defense 90% of the time. If he had scored over Okongwu instead of getting blocked twice his game would have been a full A.

      Barrett A- (24, 5, 3)
      Right now he’s playing at a different level, oozing confidence and showing ample flashes for a future role as a leader and main offensive cog. He didn’t shoot well but was money when it counts and his teammates blew a couple of his best assists.
      He’s up to 22 PPG/46 FG%/40 3FG% in the last 10 games, if he continues we can really dream.

      Robinson B (14, 13)
      Another youngster in a good stretch, took advantage without Capela and devastated the Hawks with 5 OREB. Now if only he can learn how to shoot FTs to avoid hack-a-Mitch…

      Fournier B (18, 2, 1)
      Maybe the shoulder was really bothering him, but he’s back to the player we expected, bad defense included (but with much more effort). An absolute killer in the 4th (4-4) and it’s not the first time he shines in the clutch.

      Burks B + (17,9,8)
      A near triple double, very good defense, perfect from the strip (7-7).
      He’s not a PG and suffers when pressed, but he’s really a well rounded, solid player and his contract now looks like a bargain.

    3. Grimes B + (8, 1, 1)
      Perfect from the field (3-3) he’s fearless and I hope his defense will keep him in the rotation even with Reddish around. The kid can play and his shooting form is a beauty.

      Gibson B (7, 3)
      A nice offensive burst in the 2nd plus the usual professional performance.

      IQ C- (3, 5, 1)
      Off night shooting, not particularly brilliant as a distributor, tried to help on defense and on the board.

      Toppin D (nothing but 1 AST and 1 foul)
      His combined stats, after Thibs’ backup QB comment:
      6 Games, 64 minutes, 10 points (1,6 PPG), 5-14 FG (0-3 3FG), 10 REB, 2 AST, 0 BLK, 0 STL, 1 TO.
      Perennially stuck in the corner or far away from the basket, nobody look at him on the break or when he get a missmatch and he’s back doing stupid things on defense.
      Right now he’s a waste. For the good of the kid I hope he’ll be traded soon.

    4. Alan:
      Rose’s absence is clearly hurting Obi the most. Nobody else is setting him up.

      I think this is at least partially true, and it shows that Ibi is not ready to replace Randle yet. Unlike Obi, Randle doesn’t need Rose to set him up to score.

    5. If theres anyone who should lose minutes when Rose(assuming Cam earns minutes as well) comes back it should be Quickley. Grimes is actually making his shots and playing just as well on defense. If Quick isnt making his shots hes a negative out there.

    6. I still think another trade is in the cards and I think Obi’s gonna be one of the pieces.

      Reddish “best” (or “dreamed”) version, with his wingspan and ability to stretch the floor, is more apt than Obi to do what Obi’s doing now (dangling in the corner or screening and partnering in DHO above the break) and he’s capable to fly on the break too.
      I can see him on the floor with Burks, RJ and Grimes (plus a center) in a super-switchable lineup against specific opponents.

      Rose’s return can maybe change things, but will he be back before the trade deadline?

    7. Thibs is going to have a headache on his hands figuring out the rotations when we’re closer to full strength, batting another trade. I could easily see Cam taking Obi’s minutes, for instance. And, yes, right now Grimes is offering us more consistency than IQ, but our offense’s ceiling is much higher when IQ is shooting well.

      I also wouldn’t be surprised if we’ve seen the last of Kemba in a Knicks uniform.

    8. The other thing re Reddish is that Thibs yesterday seemed very non commital to giving him minutes once he’s healthy. Probably a motivational tactic, but we’ll see.

    9. A few of us have been saying that Obi is limited. We are seeing that now with no PG on the court. I haven’t been paying close enough attention, but defenses may also be doing a better job of taking away the transition buckets. That said, IMO he shouldn’t be judged by this stretch alone because having no real PG available is not typical.

      He is what he is. He can score effectively on cuts and in transition. He’ll occasionally make a move to the hoop or shoot a 3, but he needs to improve on both. He can be a lower usage efficient energy player in a lineup that has 3 other scorers.

    10. I thought is was interesting that the ATL coach verified that Cam wanted out even before the season started. Not that it’s an excuse, but it helps explain some of his less than stellar effort defensively all while coaches and other players are saying he can be a very good defender.

    11. Alan:
      The other thing re Reddish is that Thibs yesterday seemed very non commital to giving him minutes once he’s healthy. Probably a motivational tactic, but we’ll see.

      I suspect Thibs is like that with a lot of players. You can’t commit minutes to a player you don’t know and you owe it to everyone else on the team to make a player show you what he can do before he replaces someone.

    12. I think Thibs is going to give Reddish the rookie treatment. He’ll get a couple opportunities to show what he can do but will get pulled after any mistake. Based on the clips I’ve seen he’ll get pulled a lot.

    13. I’m very much expecting an Obi trade at this point. Wonder if we can fleece the Kings for Haliburton.

    14. I’m not sure Cam can play the 4. He’s a little too skinny and can’t rebound at all. He has the length, but doesn’t quite fit.

      Obi is such a great weapon when Rose runs the offense I’m not sure it makes sense to trade him. He does need to fix his shot though.

    15. Max:

      Burks B (17,9,8)
      A near triple double, very good defense, perfect from the strip (7-7).
      He’s not a PG and suffers when pressed, but he’s really a well rounded, solid player and his contract now looks like a bargain.

      Burks has become a dependable glue guy during this recent run and his versatility might fetch a nice return in a trade. Chicago with its lack of depth and feasible strong playoff run could certainly use him( maybe for Patrick Williams if we include Obi)*. The loss of him via trade for an asset that helps us down the road would hurt our chances this season, but the future is not now for this team.
      * maybe they through in Donsumu if we include Obi

    16. Thibs will probably settle on a 10-man rotation and allocate minutes to the young guys based on how they are playing both in practice and in games. Obi is not playing well right now but I can’t see him getting benched and IQ is clanking shots but at least he’s playing good D which Thibs highly values. Reddish and Grimes will battle it out for minutes. Deuce is obviously glued to the bench right now and Kemba is iffy to ever play again or to be here past the deadline. So the starting lineup looks set and when Rose returns it will be Rose, IQ, Obi, Grimes/Reddish and Noel/Taj.

    17. So Obi has a good game, looks much improved overall even without Rose, Thibs declares him an unworthy, backup QB, and he’s contributed close to zero since then. How is that not on Thibs at least as far as player development is concerned? That was a very stupid, unnecessary dig, coach.

    18. Re: Burks, I don’t see a trade coming. Thibs absolutely loves him (for good reason) and starting him at PG improves both the offense and defense now that RJ, Randle, Fournier and Mitch have pulled their heads out of their asses. Even with Fournier that’s a big, rugged starting 5. They put a hurting on Doncic and Trae.

    19. I agree Z-Man, but if this FO is forward-thinking win curve-wise, this would be an optimal time to trade Burks for the very reason that Thibs loves him.

    20. Bo Nateman:
      I agree Z-Man, but if this FO is forward-thinking win curve-wise, this would be an optimal time to trade Burks for the very reason that Thibs loves him.

      Oh, no doubt! It’s just that they are not thinking that way. They are trying to thread the “win now” vs. “develop the kids” needle, and frankly, are doing a pretty good job of it now that Randle, Rj, etc. are playing better. Trading Burks would be very disruptive to that and I don’t think that either the FO or Thibs would want disruption just when the team is playing well. There is no world where this team is better or even as good without him.

    21. I will gladly eat crow for my take on trading Julius if he can keep this up. It’s like something clicked in him and he doesn’t feel contract pressure anymore. He’s just going out and being the best team player he can be. He’s gonna make bad mistakes from time to time because of the nature of his skill set at his position and his physical ability, but I can live with that if he can play the way he’s been playing and not revert to hero ball because he feels like he HAS to be the one that scores all game. I really appreciate the way he’s been playing while RJ and Mitch are ascending- and with no PG in the starting lineup.

    22. Ingmarrrr:
      So Obi has a good game, looks much improved overall even without Rose, Thibs declares him an unworthy, backup QB, and he’s contributed close to zero since then. How is that not on Thibs at least as far as player development is concerned? That was a very stupid, unnecessary dig, coach.

      While I agree, if Obi is so mentally soft that he took it as a dig at him (which it actually wasn’t, it was directed at social media morons who were screaming for Obi to get Julius’s minutes) and has allowed it to affect his play, he’s got a lot of growing up to do.

      I like Obi and think he has potential, but he is clearly not ready for prime time and that was apparent even before Julius had COVID. Blaming the coach’s comments for his recent poor play doesn’t seem right to me. Honestly, I doubt that Obi is thinking about those comments at all and that he wasn’t derailed, but is just going through normal ups and downs.

    23. Ingmarrrr:
      So Obi has a good game, looks much improved overall even without Rose, Thibs declares him an unworthy, backup QB, and he’s contributed close to zero since then. How is that not on Thibs at least as far as player development is concerned? That was a very stupid, unnecessary dig, coach.

      It’s not ideal. At the same time, Thibs made the comment to defend Randle, who was under siege at the time. Much as I irrationally love Obi (is he my new Frank?), fixing Randle is ultimately much more important to this team’s future than nurturing Obi. Ideally, of course, you do both.

    24. Totes McGoats as Totes McGoats:
      I will gladly eat crow for my take on trading Julius if he can keep this up. It’s like something clicked in him and he doesn’t feel contract pressure anymore.He’s just going out and being the best team player he can be. He’s gonna make bad mistakes from time to time because of the nature of his skill set at his position and his physical ability, but I can live with that if he can play the way he’s been playing and not revert to hero ball because he feels like he HAS to be the one that scores all game. I really appreciate the way he’s been playing while RJ and Mitch are ascending- and with no PG in the starting lineup.

      Part of being the #1 guy (which he undoubtably is, contract-wise and otherwise) is that when you play poorly, the blame falls harder on you than anyone else, and since the ATL series debacle, Julius has had a target on his back. He was not mentally prepared for the fans and media turning on him, and it got in his head.

      But lost in that was the fact that every other starter was playing just as badly as he was. Mitch was soft and slow, RJ couldn’t hit the ocean from a boat, Fournier was becoming the worst offseason signing in the NBA, Kemba couldn’t defend a pylon, and yet it was Julius that got blamed for dragging everyone else down. Meanwhile the second unit was playing well and some of those guys were getting hero worship on social media.

      Seems like Julius is now taking coach’s advice and is just playing for the team, not for the fans or media. He’s still not what he was at his peak last year, but it’s easier to play confidently when the other four starters are playing well at the same time. As to the bench, there’s a lot of moving parts there right now, things should settle down there eventually.

    25. Tommy Beer:

      Nets announce that Kevin Durant suffered a sprained MCL last night and will be sidelined to rehab.

      Folks/fans will wonder if the extra burden KD had to carry while the team was shorthanded (due in large part to Kyrie Irving’s absence) played a part in the injury

      From mid-November thru the first week in January, KD averaged a league-high 39.2 munites per game…

    26. Obi’s drop in numbers could also be RJ playing more with the 2nd unit (eyetest). RJ and Obi don’t often play together, so RJ doesn’t have the same feel for Obi that Rose developed. Ball dominant RJ is a new look and there’s time to work the kinks out.

    27. I obviously don’t wish ill on anyone, but I was kinda hoping KD would be out a little longer. It’d open the door in the Atlantic division. Maybe the Knicks could’ve made a run… not that Harden can’t carry a team on his own.

      The question I have is where do we send Kemba?

      Lakers?
      Clippers?
      Chicago?
      Charlotte?

      Who needs him? Who wants him? What do we get?

      I suspect we’ll send him where he wants to go even if we don’t get much in return.

    28. Miscellaneous NBA thoughts:

      As much as they were’t perfect, yesterday’s refs didn’t fall for Young’s foul-hunting, even whistling him an offensive foul for a leg kick on a three. Well done and fuck Trae Young.

      Darius Garland (27 pts 18 ast) is having a breakout season and willed the Cavs to win. Mobley will become a superstar but Garland is the motor and the Cavs are a nice feel good story.

      Sometimes I forget how much talent there’s in this legue. Ayo Dosunmu (21 pts 10 ast, 9-10 FG), Bones Hayland (27 pts 10 rebs), Anfarnee Simons (31 pts 11 ast), Omer Yurtseven (22 pts 11 rebs, 10-12 FG) wherever you looks there’s a guy ready to use his opportunity.
      Simons will command money this summer.

      Joel embiid has his 30-game streak broken in Boston (8 games) but he started a new one immediately.

      Raptors’ grasshoppers feasted yesterday against the Lopez-less Bucks (16 OReb), I’m a bit surprised they waived DMC.

      The Lakers under .500 are sweet.

    29. Agreed on Kemba, EB. Leon cares about optics, and this didn’t work out, so try to make the guy happy on the way out. Bulls don’t need another PG with Lonzo and Caruso. Hornets have LaMelo and Rozier. Lakers only have THT to trade, and they’re not giving him up for Kemba. And clips don’t quite have the right salaries to match unless we make it a bigger deal. So… dunno.

    30. Sometimes I forget how much talent there’s in this legue. Ayo Dosunmu (21 pts 10 ast, 9-10 FG), Bones Hayland (27 pts 10 rebs)

      No comment.

      For better or worse I don’t think there’s a chance in hell we’re trading Burks. We’re over .500 midway through the season and Burks has been one of our more reliable contributors (I didn’t realize his finishing and 2PT shooting in general had fallen off a cliff but he’s making up for it by hitting all of the threes). If the Knicks miss the playoffs entirely the front office will have a lot of egg on their face so I don’t see them doing something that makes that less likely, even if it would be the best long-term move.

      If there’s another move coming, I think it’ll be another one in which we try to thread the needle between getting better now and making a long-term investment. Brunson obviously makes a lot of sense, but if the Mavs continue to play well I kind of doubt they’d trade him even if they don’t think they can keep him. You only get so many runs and he’s pretty essential to them.

      I also wouldn’t be so sure Kemba is done here. After the initial banishment we found out it doesn’t take a lot of injuries for him to become a pretty important piece for us. He still does some point guard-y things that no one else on the roster really does. Since I doubt he has much value around the league, I don’t see us trading him for nothing or cutting him.

    31. Our newest player speaks:

      “I feel like I can be a star,” Reddish said in his first comments as a Knick after his new team routed the Hawks at State Farm Arena. “I feel like I could be a legit star. That’s what I’m working to be. It’s pretty simple.”

      More Cam comments here.

    32. I don’t think we need to trade Kemba, however, I do think Kemba may want a trade if he doesn’t get playing time. I’m not sure he’s in the rotation still, even when healthy.

    33. I don’t love those comments from Cam because I don’t think he can be a star. He needs to work on being a viable NBA player, not a star. At that point he can start working on being a star.

    34. Since we’re talking about the lad, still one of the most bewildering and egregious coaching decisions I’ve ever seen:

      Kemba minutes per game to start the season — avg ~20-23/game up to Nov 26.
      Doghouse for three weeks until 12/18.
      Minutes after that:
      37
      39
      42
      40
      33
      16
      Broken.

      Those are lunatic Julius “Ironman” minutes that the hive mind thinks is stupid even for Julius. I know Covid, but it’s not like we have a point guard now. Just inexplicable, if not criminal.

    35. Early Bird: I don’t love those comments from Cam because I don’t think he can be a star.

      Also don’t love it because it’s me-me-me. I know it’s the NBA, but the level of pin-headed narcissism exhibited, to not even be able to bullshit about team and winning to the press, doesn’t give me a lot of hope this guy’s going to be a lot of fun to have around.

    36. Yeah not too excited about these Cam comments. Maybe he ups his effort level now that hes out of Atlanta but I expect to see a lot of forced mid range jumpers in his future.

    37. Re: Kemba, as i predicted not long ago, we’ll reach a buyout agreement with him and he’ll go wherever he wants (i’m also predicting the Lakers will be his destination). We just need to assume 5M of dead money for next season, and he’ll recoup it signing a vet min for the remainder of this season and for the next.

    38. We shouldn’t trade players when they play poorly (eg, Obi), so my idea is to bank on Burks excellent play and trade him to Dallas with Mitch, for Brunson and Kleber. I’m sorry but i’m not buying Burks being a good PG, it’s working but it’s a small sample size, and he’ll be exposed soon, as he was in the beginning of the Burks PG experiment. Dallas will be a lot better with Burks and Mitch, and we finally get a real PG to command the offense.
      If we can’t do this now, i’m in favor of breaking the bank for Brunson in the summer. If we send them Fournier in a sign and trade, we can pay him up to 22.5M in the first year. Of course, i’d prefer a little less, like 4/70M or 4/80M. Anything above 4/55.6M is above what the Mavs can offer in an extension, and as they don’t have cap space i’m almost sure (Noble, help please) they can’t offer him what the Knicks can (if they agree to do a sign and trade, which they’ll probably do because it’s better than losing the player for nothing).

    39. Max: Rose’s return can maybe change things, but will he be back before the trade deadline?

      In the injury report he’s set to be re-evaluated at Feb 25 , so no he won’t be back before the deadline (Feb 10).

    40. maybe they through in Donsumu if we include Obi

      the front office already determined that Donsumu isn’t good enough, as we were told 1,000 times during incinerategate.

      But more importantly, I think you vastly underestimate Patrick Williams. His lost season was a devastating blow to the Bulls. There is no way we’re getting him for Alec Burks. Fair value for Patrick Williams is probably something like RJ Barrett and IQ.

      Frankly, we probably can’t even get Donsumu for Alec Burks.

    41. Ayo Dosunmu (21 pts 10 ast, 9-10 FG)

      Previous game: MIN 32, FG 0-5, 3P 0-1, FT 0-2, TRB 2, AST 0, STL 0, BLK 0, PTS 0

    42. In No-Longer-a-Knick AND Definitely-Not-Thibs news, Dallas played 13 players yesterday in a game they won by “only” 16. with nobody getting over 27 minutes and with every ex-Knick but Theo getting some run.

    43. Well, if Cam actually puts in the work to become the star he wants to be, I’m fine with it. Also what is he supposed to say, “I’m bad and in 4 years I’ll be trying out for Virtus Bologna”? Prospects need to have confidence, even if it’s irrational at first, then it’s up to the coaching staff to reign them in. We don’t want another Frank situation where a guy is scared of the ball.

    44. cybersoze: If we can’t do this now, i’m in favor of breaking the bank for Brunson in the summer. If we send them Fournier in a sign and trade, we can pay him up to 22.5M in the first year. Of course, i’d prefer a little less, like 4/70M or 4/80M. Anything above 4/55.6M is above what the Mavs can offer in an extension, and as they don’t have cap space i’m almost sure (Noble, help please) they can’t offer him what the Knicks can (if they agree to do a sign and trade, which they’ll probably do because it’s better than losing the player for nothing).

      Just to correct my previous information, Dallas has bird rights on Brunson so they can sign him for the money they want up to the max.
      Either way, i’d still throw money at him to see if he wants to come here. There’s ties between him and the Knicks because of his father.

    45. The Suns could be in the market for backcourt help before the trade deadline, as Kellan Olson of Arizona Sports 98.7 notes that Cameron Payne and Landry Shamet are having disappointing seasons.

      Can they be interested in Kemba for Cam Payne? Doesn’t make much sense to me, from their perspective, but if they want it, please do it fast, Leon, before they change their minds. LOL

    46. ***Just to correct my previous information, Dallas has bird rights on Brunson so they can sign him for the money they want up to the max.
      Either way, i’d still throw money at him to see if he wants to come here. There’s ties between him and the Knicks because of his father.***

      Who is his father, Rick? He played, like, 300 total minutes for the Knicks. That’s really a “tie” for him and this organization? I can only imagine Jalen’s vivid MSG memories of his dad mopping up a few garbage time minutes while he sipped apple juice from a sippy cup in the nosebleeds of the player’s wives section. He probably couldn’t even tell who was dad and who was Lavor Postell in those games.

    47. I don’t know if it will ever count, Dallas said many times they’ll do anything to resign Brunson, but the tie is not Rick’s Knicks career.
      He was the first NBA client of a young agent, named Leon Rose.

    48. Who is his father, Rick? He played, like, 300 total minutes for the Knicks. That’s really a “tie” for him and this organization? I can only imagine Jalen’s vivid MSG memories of his dad mopping up a few garbage time minutes while he sipped apple juice from a sippy cup in the nosebleeds of the player’s wives section. He probably couldn’t even tell who was dad and who was Lavor Postell in those games.

      Rick was one of Leon Rose’s first clients and was on Thibs’ staff in Minnesota, if I recall correctly.

    49. Bruno Almeida: Prospects need to have confidence, even if it’s irrational at first, then it’s up to the coaching staff to reign them in. We don’t want another Frank situation where a guy is scared of the ball.

      Totally with you there, Bruno. It’s just that every colleague or boss that I’ve despised (not a lot, but you know who you are) all had the same hyper-narcissistic tendencies that made it impossible for them to hear how offensive they sounded, and which ended up destroying any sense of team in the group. Perhaps I’m gun-shy, but Cam’s comments had a bit of that sound. Especially three years in, some media trainer should have drilled in that you talk about team and effort to the press, not how you’re gonna be a big star someday.

      Irrational confidence good; hyper-narcissistic tendencies bad (unless you’re a superstar like MJ or Kobe, and even then it was problematic at times). Guess we’ll find out which it is.

    50. Donnie Walsh:
      ***Just to correct my previous information, Dallas has bird rights on Brunson so they can sign him for the money they want up to the max.
      Either way, i’d still throw money at him to see if he wants to come here. There’s ties between him and the Knicks because of his father.***

      Who is his father, Rick? He played, like, 300 total minutes for the Knicks. That’s really a “tie” for him and this organization? I can only imagine Jalen’s vivid MSG memories of his dad mopping up a few garbage time minutes while he sipped apple juice from a sippy cup in the nosebleeds of the player’s wives section. He probably couldn’t even tell who was dad and who was Lavor Postell in those games.

      Rick was interviewed during the Mavs-Knicks game and told an anecdote about how Jalen used to come with him to practice and demonstrate how he was able to mimic the moves and Ewing and Houston. Don’t think that gives the Knicks any edge, but it’s a factoid.

    51. Nothing wrong with what Cam said but we know that probably means a lot of unwarranted iso’s and bad mid range j’s. I dont see Thibs coaching Cam out of those bad tendencies it will be up to Cam himself to improve his shot selection

    52. @NYPost_Berman
      Kemba Walker is questionable for MLK Day, according to injury report. Nerlens Noel will miss 2nd straight game with sore knee – his season continuing as a train wreck.

    53. Raven: Totally with you there, Bruno. It’s just that every colleague or boss that I’ve despised (not a lot, but you know who you are) all had the same hyper-narcissistic tendencies that made it impossible for them to hear how offensive they sounded, and which ended up destroying any sense of team in the group. Perhaps I’m gun-shy, but Cam’s comments had a bit of that sound. Especially three years in, some media trainer should have drilled in that you talk about team and effort to the press, not how you’re gonna be a big star someday.

      Irrational confidence good; hyper-narcissistic tendencies bad (unless you’re a superstar like MJ or Kobe, and even then it was problematic at times). Guess we’ll find out which it is.

      I get that, really, it’s something that I hate in coworkers or colleagues for sure, but I tend to believe that we would all absolutely fucking hate to work with any top NBA player in any capacity, because just to put in the work and persevere to get there, you have to be a bit insane and very self-focused. Of course not everyone is at the level of Jordan or Kobe, but I don’t think you can really be a NBA superstar and be a nice, reserved and shy person all the time outside of a few very notable exceptions.

    54. FWIW, if you click the link, Cam acknowledges that he really hasn’t done anything of note so far in his career and that he needs to get better. He does not come across as a raging egomaniac, even ifhe does in fact have an overinflated opinion of his own game.

    55. True Alan havent heard anything negative about him outside of him asking for a bigger role. Doesnt seem like a bad locker room guy and I’m sure Leon did his due diligence regarding that.

    56. Re: the #19 pick trade-out debate, Travis Schlenk said the following:

      “We feel like this pick from Charlotte, even though it does have protections, I thnk my analytics group said there’s a 90% chance over 4 years that we get this pick, so we think it’s a real first round draft pick, it’s not a fake first round draft pick. And the one think I’ll say about draft picks, everyone values draft picks. Every team might not value a player, but 29 other teams will value a real first round draft pick.”

      While I have always agreed that we should have gotten better value than what we did for that pick, Schlenk’s statement supports the contention that the difference in value between that #19 pick on draft night and the pick it was converted into is pretty marginal. If we had taken a random player selected between, say, #19 and #24 in that draft, there’s probably less than a 50% chance that that player gets this deal done in an even swap, for precisely the reasons that Schlenk noted. I know that Schlenk drafted Jalen Johnson at #20, so maybe he would do that swap. On the other hand, maybe viewing the pick as a “real” pick enticed Schlenk to include the second rounder for Knox, which is a steal for the Knicks.

      And that’s why I never got the deep despair some posters felt about the trade-out. This quote makes it pretty clear that the protected CHA pick was valued by GMs as a commensurate asset with the original #19. There’s a chance it reverts to two 2nd rounders, but there’s a much better chance that it conveys as a #15-19 pick in the next 4 years, with an outside chance that CHA drops some protections so that they can make a deal with a different first rounder.

      But I guess that folks are so dug in to the “incinerated pick” narrative that they will never budge on their thinking.

    57. I’m with you on this one, Z-Man. We 100% should have gotten more for it, because the whole point of trading a present-day pick for a future one is to be paid a premium for waiting, and we did not get that. But we did convert that pick into a player who is valued by at least some parts of the Association. Whether Cam should be valued — and valued over anyone we could have taken from 19-24 in that draft — is a separate debate entirely, but the pick we got still had plenty of utility as an asset.

    58. And that is not to say that I was in favor of trading the CHA pick for Reddish. I’m a skeptic like most here, but it’s not a bad gamble….i’m kinda meh, wait and see. I just think the trade and Schlenk’s statements puts to bed the notion that the pick was egregiously devalued.

    59. Trading a present first round pick for a future pick that has a 90% chance of being a first round pick is a god awful trade!

    60. Also, the idea that the pool of players to whom it’s fair to compare Cam is limited to picks 19-24 is laughable. Multiple posters here posted boards with players picked after 24 ranked much higher than their draft slots, how are they not fair game?

    61. Alan: the whole point of trading a present-day pick for a future one is to be paid a premium for waiting, and we did not get that.

      Well, I sort of agree, but I don’t think it’s so simple. This is the source of much disagreement. There is not a “fixed” value on any given pick in the dynamic environment of draft night. When the clock is ticking, sometimes you just have to make a call based on the offers that are available. It’s obvious that the Knicks FO works the phones feverishly, as the many draft night deals that materialized in the last 2 years confirms. So at that time, the choices may have been: picking a guy who we aren’t crazy about at that spot and/or we think we can get later (e.g. Grimes) or keeping that scratch-off lottery ticket unscratched by taking the only offer left out there. Waiting teams out in a trade-up scenario complicates things as well. The time pressure is probably a huge factor.

      And as I said, there is a real possibility that the CHA pick conveys as a better pick than the original #19 pick in 2023, 2024 or 2025, either by CHA becoming good but not great, or about them needing to convey the pick so that they can unfreeze their ability to trade other first rounders.

      It really wasn’t a big deal.

    62. But if the pick conveys at a better spot than 19, it’s still not going to convey high enough to be worth the amount of time the Knicks will have had to wait in order to get it. Charlotte should have had to pay a surplus to get that pick, even if it was an extra second, rights to a draft and stash guy, whatever. You don’t trade a present-day 1st for a future 1st that at best can be only a handful of slots better than where the current one is, and not get a bonus.

    63. thenoblefacehumper:
      Trading a present first round pick for a future pick that has a 90% chance of being a first round pick is a god awful trade!

      Obviously you’re dug in despite all evidence to the contrary. Seems like you are unwilling to consider that a pick made at #19 has a much greater than 10% chance of not being worth a first rounder ever again. Or not worth getting a player of Cam Reddish’s market value in return. You seem unwilling to concede that the pick was maybe not going to be any of the guys that you liked at that spot, or maybe a guy you liked that sucks.

      In other words, by not “incinerating” the pick by selecting a totally unproven player, they turned it just a few months later into a player who at least has proven that he can play in the NBA.

      It really sounds like you would have been happier if they just drafted McBride at #19, Grimes at #21 and Robinson-Earl at #32 and called it a night.

    64. Hey Z-Man, would you make a $1,000 investment that, at best, could turn into $1,050, and at worst could be nearly wiped out entirely?

    65. Oh my fucking god I already hate the Reddish trade because it somehow brought incinerate gate back from the ashes like a turd Phoenix.

    66. Alan:
      But if the pick conveys at a better spot than 19, it’s still not going to convey high enough to be worth the amount of time the Knicks will have had to wait in order to get it. Charlotte should have had to pay a surplus to get that pick, even if it was an extra second, rights to a draft and stash guy, whatever. You don’t trade a present-day 1st for a future 1st that at best can be only a handful of slots better than where the current one is, and not get a bonus.

      Oh, I agree, but I just don’t think it was worth the outcry that it got, and at the end of the day, it didn’t turn out to matter very much. The pick still had plenty of value and was way more fungible than a random player selected in that range would be. For example, Jalen Johnson is a nice prospect but a) right now, I highly doubt that he would bring back anything better than the CHA pick we just traded and b) as Schlenk said, there are teams that would have zero interest in him based on his fit in their plans, while teams always want first rounders, even lottery-protected ones.

      At the end of the day, we used that #19 pick to get Cam Reddish, who I don’t think ATL would have taken the #19 pick for on draft day, not after his strong playoff performance vs. MIL. Sure, you lost 2+ years of team control, but those years largely are sunk costs for most one-and-done guys. So if you look at what we went into the draft with and what we ultimately came out with, (Grimes, Jokubaitis, McBride, Sims, Reddish, a future 2nd, and Knox off the books for aother future 2nd) I hope that reasonable people can agree that it really wasn’t worth getting apoplectic about.

    67. thenoblefacehumper:
      Hey Z-Man, would you make a $1,000 investment that, at best, could turn into $1,050, and at worst could be nearly wiped out entirely?

      You mean those are the only choices? Like drafting a player at #19 has no chance of wiping out that investment entirely? Like drafting Ntilikina at #8 is better than trading for a future protected first? Like drafting Knox at #9 is better than trading for a future protected first? You seem to totally ignore that risk. You also seem to ignore that a pretty highly regarded GM just told you that he is ignoring the 10% risk and treating it as a “real” pick.

    68. Bruno Almeida:
      Oh my fucking god I already hate the Reddish trade because it somehow brought incinerate gate back from the ashes like a turd Phoenix.

      Hey Bruno, this is about the 4th or 5th time you’ve weighed in with a gratuitous comment regarding a dialogue I’m having with someone else, or evoked me in some kind of sarcastic way when I wasn’t posting at all. I haven’t responded to those posts, or any others that you made since your return, in any kind of negative way. I’d appreciate the same courtesy.

    69. It’s a pleasure (sometimes) to come here and read lucid posts about could happen. I was trounced on Twitter for suggesting that there’s a playing time problem and that Cam’s attitude is going to be important. He’s going to ride the pine until he proves he’s a top-10 Knick player.

      My thoughts are that guesses about trades are spot-on. A 3-for-1 for a real star could be on tap. I won’t guess who but the Knicks have assets to trade. Lots of them. When was the last time we could say that?

    70. I’m really not convinced that when you trade a current year pick for a future one that you always should get a premium for waiting. In a vacuum getting an asset earlier is better than later, but that assumes you have enough open roster spots to evaluate all your new players, and that the money you will owe that player won’t mess up your planned salary structure. Also, the current draft could be viewed as lousy, or your team’s present situation could mean a future pick has more value because you want trade assets more than you want another body.

    71. GoNyGoNYGo:
      It’s a pleasure (sometimes) to come here and read lucid posts about could happen.I was trounced on Twitter for suggesting that there’s a playing time problem and that Cam’s attitude is going to be important.He’s going to ride the pine until he proves he’s a top-10 Knick player.

      My thoughts are that guesses about trades are spot-on.A 3-for-1 for a real star could be on tap.I won’t guess who but the Knicks have assets to trade. Lots of them. When was the last time we could say that?

      What? Did the Twitterati actually think that Reddish automatically deserves playing time?

    72. Like drafting a player at #19 has no chance of wiping out that investment entirely?

      I mean, by the same token then, the remote chance that the pick lands in a spot better than #19 could still yield a player worse than Jalen Johnson, Bones Hyland, Dosunmu, etc.

      Of course all draft picks come with risk. It’s weird to jump from that idea to the conclusion that it really doesn’t matter if you make a one-for-one trade that swaps a pick for a worse pick, though.

      You also seem to ignore that a pretty highly regarded GM just told you that he is ignoring the 10% risk and treating it as a “real” pick.

      I plead guilty to not caring much about what spin a GM put on a trade that his fanbase was pretty pissed about in the middle of a season in which his entire body of work suddenly looks highly questionable.

    73. Knick fan not in NJ: What? Did the Twitterati actually think that Reddish automatically deserves playing time?

      They think he’s the second coming. They “loved” what he said in the interview discussed above which made some Knickerbockers take pause, citing his response as PROOF of his awesomeness.

    74. “I’m not expecting to come in here and get 35 minutes.”

      Jeeze. How’s he going to feel about playing 5 garbage minutes a week?

    75. GoNyGoNYGo: They think he’s the second coming.They “loved” what he said in the interview discussed above which made some Knickerbockerstake pause, citing his response as PROOF of his awesomeness.

      That is amazing

    76. Knick fan not in NJ:
      I’m really not convinced that when you trade a current year pick for a future one that you always should get a premium for waiting. In a vacuum getting an asset earlier is better than later, but that assumes you have enough open roster spots to evaluate all your new players, and that the money you will owe that player won’t mess up your planned salary structure.Also, the current draft could be viewed as lousy, or your team’s present situation could mean a future pick has more value because you want trade assets more than you want another body.

      this is more accurate…a draft pick is not a financial asset…obviously if you give someone your 100 dollars today…you want more than 100 later…but a draft pick (all else being equal) should just be the same slot …however, in this case it wasn’t…it could convey at a later slot or not even in the first round (however, some number cruncher in the hawks front office did some calcs and said it was 90% that it would be a first round pick) ….it seems like this was a marginal bad deal not the end of the world and certainly like the 9th , 10th or further down the list of transactions that will ultimately factor in to how successful or unsuccesful the rose regime/era will be….like giving randle his deal..fournier his deal…hiring thibs…how they handle rj and mitch…the next trades coming..etc…the trading of that pick will/should be a foot note…

      one other spewing item…looking at the contract situation….when people say we have flexibility/assets…I mean is any front office looking at the randle (100mm guarnateed)/fournier (40mm guaranteed after this yr)/mister softee nooel contracts as good assets to pick up? if not…then what assets are we talking about..just that we have a bunch of team options?

    77. And on the matter of the draft picks. There’s a factor that hasn’t been brought up. First round picks take up cap under the rookie pay scale. Second round picks don’t and aren’t subject to the 1st round rules. I’m not sure how it all factors into this deal but I’ve got a feeling that it does.

    78. thenoblefacehumper: I mean, by the same token then, the remote chance that the pick lands in a spot better than #19 could still yield a player worse than Jalen Johnson, Bones Hyland, Dosunmu, etc.

      Of course all draft picks come with risk. It’s weird to jump from that idea to the conclusion that it really doesn’t matter if you make a one-for-one trade that swaps a pick for a worse pick, though.

      But you are making assumptions that are simply not true. There is a reasonable probability that the future pick will be better than the current pick, so I don’t get why you keep saying that it is a “worse” pick. There is also zero probability that the pick you make at #19 will be anything but that player, for better or for worse.

      The Reddish transaction proves that the value of the pick was entirely preserved. That’s now a 100% certainty. There was literally zero risk of devaluing the asset in the short term. Had the pick been made, there’s no telling how it would have turned out. This should be pretty obvious for anyone following the Knicks.

    79. thenoblefacehumper: I plead guilty to not caring much about what spin a GM put on a trade that his fanbase was pretty pissed about in the middle of a season in which his entire body of work suddenly looks highly questionable.

      Well, you should care in the sense that he is a fairly representative GM and in a position to make non-theoretical decisions about how valuable that pick is. It doesn’t matter what you or I think, it matters what they think. That’s part of Leon & Co.’s job…determining what assets are worth to other GMs, not to KB bloggers. In this case, they seemed to hit the nail right on the head.

    80. The Reddish transaction proves that the value of the pick was entirely preserved. That’s now a 100% certainty. There was literally zero risk of devaluing the asset in the short term. Had the pick been made, there’s no telling how it would have turned out. This should be pretty obvious for anyone following the Knicks.

      The value of the pick was entirely preserved because they were able to trade it for…1.5 years of Cam Reddish?

      Don’t know about that one.

    81. thenoblefacehumper: The value of the pick was entirely preserved because they were able to trade it for…1.5 years of Cam Reddish?

      Don’t know about that one.

      That is a different debate

    82. Z-man: Hey Bruno, this is about the 4th or 5th time you’ve weighed in with a gratuitous comment regarding a dialogue I’m having with someone else, or evoked me in some kind of sarcastic way when I wasn’t posting at all. I haven’t responded to those posts, or any others that you made since your return, in any kind of negative way. I’d appreciate the same courtesy.

      Oh, so you learned courtesy after repeatedly calling me stupid before that. Nice to know. Let’s all be better from now on, I guess.

      Incinerate gate is just a boring discussion that’s reaching Frank discussion levels of pointless because you all are never, ever reaching a consensus on this or agreeing on anything.

    83. thenoblefacehumper: The value of the pick was entirely preserved because they were able to trade it for…1.5 years of Cam Reddish?

      Don’t know about that one.

      The fact that you don’t like Reddish as a trade target is kind of irrelevant, isn’t it? It’s possible that you wouldn’t have given up a second rounder, or even Kevin Knox straight up for Reddish. That’s a separate discussion.

      The point is that it had enough value to get that deal done, and that suggests that it would have had enough value to get other futures deals that required a lottery-protected pick done. That is a virtual certainty. The Knicks passed over Jared Johnson once and players like Keon Johnson, Hyland, Cam Thomas, and Donsumnu multiple times, so its doubtful that they would have picked them at any point. So who would that pick have been? What would his value be right now? We have no idea.

    84. Bruno Almeida:
      Incinerate gate is just a boring discussion that’s reaching Frank discussion levels of pointless because you all are never, ever reaching a consensus on this or agreeing on anything.

      You’re entitled to feel that way. I find it fascinating in that it’s a critical measuring stick for this management team’s efficacy at executing transactions. There’s a range of opinions (see Alan’s above.) And it’s about the Knicks and this is Knickerblogger.

      And I’m not asking you to be courteous, just trying to avoid a conflict. Seems like you are going out of your way to provoke one.

    85. Z-man: You’re entitled to feel that way. I find it fascinating in that it’s a critical measuring stick for this management team’s efficacy at executing transactions. There’s a range of opinions (see Alan’s above.) And it’s about the Knicks and this is Knickerblogger.

      And I’m not asking you to be courteous, just trying to avoid a conflict. Seems like you are going out of your way to provoke one.

      I think he was just voicing one of those “range of opinions” you mention, Z-Man. Which I, Frankly (if I may), agree with. I’d much rather an entire thread on our lost French Prince than this.

      But hey, I can skip posts (and posts, and posts, creeps in this petty pace). Hopefully won’t happen tomorrow…

    86. Raven: I think he was just voicing one of those “range of opinions” you mention, Z-Man. Which I, Frankly (if I may), agree with. I’d much rather an entire thread on our lost French Prince than this.

      But hey, I can skip posts (and posts, and posts, creeps in this petty pace). Hopefully won’t happen tomorrow…

      Thanks Raven, that’s pretty much exactly it. I’m all for hypothetical discussions but this one is just too abstract for my taste. We have no idea who the FO would have drafted at 19th, no idea whether better offers, either for that pick or the Charlotte pick were ever available, so we simply don’t have the information to ever reach any sort of consensus. It’s just a discussion by people with different philosophies who don’t particularly like each other and will likely refuse to ever agree on anything in the first place so yeah, my opinion is that it’s meaningless and has very little chance to ever be meaningful for the Knicks present or future.

    87. Raven, I skip posts all the time. And it’s not like we’re discussing the pick out of the blue. It’s just been traded and the value of that pick was what made the transaction work. But don’t fret, before you know it we’ll be back to scintillating discussions about why Thibs overplayed Kemba or underplayed Obi.

    88. Bruno Almeida: It’s just a discussion by people with different philosophies who don’t particularly like each other and will likely refuse to ever agree on anything in the first place so yeah, my opinion is that it’s meaningless and has very little chance to ever be meaningful for the Knicks present or future.

      I actually like and respect tnfh and we agree on like 95% of things. It’s just that when we disagree, things get escalated. And I don’t actually dislike anyone on this blog, not even you.

      As to it being meaningless and having very little chance to ever be meaningful for the Knicks present or future, I would beg to differ. In 2020 the Knicks drafted Obi with #8 and most here hated that pick. Then they took IQ at #25 and there was an outcry about that. Then they punted on the #33 pick, more anguish. Move forward to 2021 and the first thing they did was trade #19 and the same crowd doubles over in pain. So it’s not an isolated incident, just the most vehemently criticized and most polarizing.

      At the root of the discussion is whether the FO knows what it is doing in the draft. Some think they’ve done a pretty good or even great job. Others think they’ve screwed the pooch on one transation after another.

      As it turns out, we have new info on Obi, IQ Grimes, Deuce, and Rokas that help us look back on those opinions and discuss them in new light. I believe the same is true with this Reddish trade. The fact that the “incinerated” pick was used to get Reddish and a 2nd rounder for Knox (a negative asset who no one would have given a second rounder for straight up) sheds new light on the actual market value of that pick. To me, that makes it an interesting and appropriate thing to discuss.

      Considering that much of the discussion the last couple of days was about NASA movies, I don’t feel I have to justify this, but whatever.

    89. I have to admit, I skip over 90% of the Knicks related posts these days. I’m here mostly for the discograffiti links and the NASA movie lists.

    90. Schlenk’s statement supports the contention that the difference in value between that #19 pick on draft night and the pick it was converted into is pretty marginal

      no, it does not.

    91. The point is that it had enough value to get that deal done, and that suggests that it would have had enough value to get other futures deals that required a lottery-protected pick done. That is a virtual certainty.

      this is a total failure of logic.

      The fact that they had to settle for a 90% chance at a first proves that Cam was not worth a first round pick to any team in the NBA. It proves that this pick was valued less than a real first round pick.

    92. As it turns out, we have new info on Obi, IQ Grimes, Deuce, and Rokas that help us look back on those opinions and discuss them in new light.

      And in the new light, it is overwhelmingly obvious that the people who wanted to draft Tyrese Halliburton, Desmond Bane, and Xavier Tillman in 2020 were right.

      We also now have evidence that we converted a 100% first round pick into a 90% first round pick. So far, we’re batting 1.000

    93. Hubert, if you assume Reddish is worthless, then it suggests the pick was not worth much either; but it’s more complicated than that. It certainly sounds like Atlanta had offers of second round picks and didn’t take them which means the pick in question was worth more than a second round pick. All first round picks aren’t equal, and the one we traded wasn’t a great one for sure, but there are worse first round picks out there too.

    94. I have the theory that PER, while not a perfect stat by any means for ranking player value, is a good proxy for the financial worth of a player in the NBA. It is derived from the sort of statistical results that teams are willing to pay for. Reddish has a PER this year of 13.4, which is more than I expected given that Atlanta thought he wouldn’t get much playing time and was willing to accommodate his request for a trade. That PER is actually the same as Barrett’s and would tie him for eighth on the Knicks. I think that’s at least the level of useful role player, and not a bad outcome for what was once the 19th pick in the draft, since Reddish is still young.

    95. We didn’t trade the pick for Cam Reddish. We traded Kevin Knox and the pick for Reddish and a 2nd round pick. Discussing the pick for Reddish straight up ignores that. Knox is worse than Reddish (though both have issues). Knox also is done with his rookie deal this season. Reddish has a year and a half left on his.

      Larger picture. We went into the draft with the 19th and 21st pick and Kevin Knox. we left with Reddish, Grimes, McBride, Rokas and a future second. IE, we entered the draft with one real player and 2 theoretical players and we left the draft with 4 real players and one future theoretical player. I don’t know. Seems like our FO is pretty good at playing 4-D chess.

    96. I’d like to thank both litigant parties, i’m happy with the clarifications provided and now i’ll let the jury decide. LOL
      Happy MLK day! :)

    97. I get it, Knick fan in NJ. But the argument put forth was:

      this trade and that statement proves that the Charlotte pick was equal to any other lottery protected first round pick.

      It does not do that. In fact, it does the opposite.

      It proves that Leon Rose converted the 1st round pick into something that the league valued **less than** a true first round pick. The case is closed.

    98. By your logic a 90% chance at the Pistons first round pick isn’t a first round pick and having the Bucks first round pick instead is preferable.

    99. Hubert: And in the new light, it is overwhelmingly obvious that the people who wanted to draft Tyrese Halliburton, Desmond Bane, and Xavier Tillman in 2020 were right.

      We also now have evidence that we converted a 100% first round pick into a 90% first round pick. So far, we’re batting 1.000

      No one, certainly not me, has said that they preferred Obi and IQ on draft night (I was a Hali-Bane guy myself) or that trading out #19 was an even value proposition. The argument is about the degree of the issues with those transactions.

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