Knicks Morning News (2022.01.15)

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    [www.si.com] — Friday, January 14, 2022 11:18:53 PM

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    [nypost.com] — Friday, January 14, 2022 10:28:00 PM

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  • RJ Barrett delivers a scouting report on Cam Reddish | Knicks News Conference – Yahoo Sports
    [sports.yahoo.com] — Friday, January 14, 2022 4:45:06 PM

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    [www.si.com] — Friday, January 14, 2022 4:18:30 PM

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  • Ep. 133 Shock Jacques Knicks Podcast – Posting and Toasting
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    [hardwoodhoudini.com] — Friday, January 14, 2022 8:00:00 AM

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    72 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2022.01.15)”

    1. Dumb question to start off a slow news day, before we get back to litigating the Reddish trade: what are your favorite scripted movies involving NASA? I’m on a podcast next week called Screen Drafts where you have to come up with a top 7 list from various genres, and this is that episode’s theme. Can be historically based like Right Stuff or Apollo 13, or wholly fictional like 2001 or The Martian, but has to be connected to NASA in some way (ie, no Star Wars or Avatar). I have lots of ideas, but am trying to narrow down a list of about a dozen contenders.

    2. It will be interesting to see how Thibs handles the roster with Cam here now. People keep talking about a wing glut, but I don’t really see it exactly that way. Cam is an athletic 6’ 8” tall and 7’ 1” long legit SF. We don’t have another player like that. I think they are going to take a look at him in practice and games for a couple of weeks and if they like what they see, someone else is probably going to get traded. If not, then if he was unhappy in ATL, he’s going to be very unhappy with his minutes here. But I do think his size and athleticism brings something to the table we don’t have.

    3. Dumb question to start off a slow news day, before we get back to litigating the Reddish trade: what are your favorite scripted movies involving NASA? I’m on a podcast next week called Screen Drafts where you have to come up with a top 7 list from various genres, and this is that episode’s theme. Can be historically based like Right Stuff or Apollo 13, or wholly fictional like 2001 or The Martian, but has to be connected to NASA in some way (ie, no Star Wars or Avatar). I have lots of ideas, but am trying to narrow down a list of about a dozen contenders.

      Can Capricorn One count? It involves NASA even if it’s a scam…

    4. Oh, Capricorn One counts. So would Armageddon, or Hidden Figures, or even something like October Sky where the kid dreams of building rockets and (spoiler) eventually winds up working for NASA.

    5. From last thread:

      thenoblefacehumper: I found this thread pretty enlightening as to why eye-test types are so high on Reddish. To use a cliche I tend to hate, he really does have a lot of tools you can’t teach. The problem seems to be…all of the teachable stuff.

      This is a very fair characterization. Cam has a toolbox full of state-of-the-art tools. Can he learn to use them like a top-notch craftsperson or will he never be able to “see the game” the way he needs to in order to be a star? Is it an intelligence issue or a maturity issue?

      That’s kind of what you get when you draft, sign or trade for players like Cam at age 22. Obviously if the question marks weren’t there, he wouldn’t be available for a protected first round pick.

      These kind of players have all different kinds of long-term outcomes. Hard to conclude that it’s an IQ issue, or a motor issue, or a mechanics issue, or a maturity issue, or a role issue, that results in the ultimate ceiling. I think the best downside comparison for him is Mario Hezonja, a guy who came into the league with a similarly tantalizing skills package and size and never figured it out. Cam has a higher floor than Mario, but he could already be close to his ceiling as an erratic highlight reel on both ends. I like his chances, though, and think it’s a fine gamble. If it is a maturity issue only, he really could become a big-3 level player at some point.

    6. Part of the interesting (and terrifying) story line to this season is the incredible inconsistencies.

      We’ve seen players struggling wildly and playing completely outside their lanes (Randle, RJ).
      We’ve seen players struggling wildly and then still struggling but finding their lanes (Randle).
      We’ve seen players struggling and then seemingly finding themselves (RJ, Fournier, Mitch).

      It’s not clear yet if there’s a narrative arc, to use Alan-speak (the team is finally getting its cumulative act together) or if it’s all chaos and variance.

      Plus there are mystery elements (Kemba, now Cam) that are like characters that show up in episode 6, that could change the story line for better or for worse. Or not at all. Plus throughout there have been plot devices that have gummed up the story line repeatedly (injuries, Covid).

      The game today is going to be interesting as another data point in trying to assess where this team is going. Or whether this show is any good or not.

    7. cgreene:
      Contact. A terrible great movie.

      Contact is one I am considering (possibly that or Interstellar as the token “aliens reach out and encourage us to travel to another galaxy” film, and/or as the token McConaughey film). Curious how you define “terrible great movie.” There are definitely problems withit.

    8. I have a love/don’t love relationship with Contact. Its best moments put it in a top tier of all-timers, but it’s low points make me hang my head in disgust. I guess it’s like the John Starks of movies for my 1990s self.

      But, for the sake of your podcast, I don’t think NASA is really a figure in the movie. Her project is independently funded by a private-sector billionaire, and after she makes her discovery the space launch project is an international endeavor.

      Also, the Right Stuff is a masterpiece. One of the best westerns ever made. That’s the top of the NASA movie list, for sure.

    9. It’s not clear yet if there’s a narrative arc, to use Alan-speak (the team is finally getting its cumulative act together) or if it’s all chaos and variance.

      To me it has felt completely chaotic. Basically there’s enough individual talent to scratch out wins, but there’s no semblance whatsoever of a coherent scheme, identity, etc. It’s been almost the opposite of last season in that sense.

      Over the last 10 games (SSS obviously) they really have clamped down on defense though, and they’ve been impressive enough that it can’t be written off entirely as the product of playing against some true Who He Play For all-stars. Mitch looking healthy and engaged has been a big, maybe the biggest, part of that. If that continues (big if), you could squint and see a more interesting team than last year–basically the offseason vision of a slight step back on defense with more offensive firepower.

      Of course, that requires the “offensive firepower” to translate into…good offense, which outside of the first few weeks has not happened. Even over our recent 10 game stretch, the offense has ranked 27th. A healthy Rose and Kemba can probably get us out of “tanking team” territory, but, stop me if you’ve heard this before, we won’t have an even semi-decent offense if our highest usage player keeps taking shots like he’s Carmelo Anthony and making them like he’s Frank Ntilikina.

    10. I want to pitch Arrival, but if memory serves NASA doesn’t even show up in it, it’s the military (and two academics). Kind of interesting that NASA is completely out of the loop, but I guess it can’t qualify.

      Edit: Unless you have a “Where’s NASA?” category, and it sounds like Contact may qualify there, too…

    11. what are your favorite scripted movies involving NASA?

      The Shining. It is conspiracy theorists’ favourite NASA movie.

    12. Although 2001 may fall short of ranking as my all-time favorite film, it’s definitely on the short list of most rewatched. First viewing was when my father took me to see it shortly after its release. My 11 year old self was totally mesmerized by the visual experience but on the bus ride home afterwards, I repeatedly pestered, “But what was it about, dad? What was it about?”

      He had no answer for me. So I spent the next dozen or so years (ably assisted by the complete pharmacopeia of hallucinogens) watching it over and over and over again trying to figure it out. I lost count somewhere after the 10th viewing but I’d estimate that I easily saw it well over 25 times between 1968 and 1980. As well as a handful of times since then.

      Even though there’s a sizable faction who regard 2001 as a crushing bore, pretentious twaddle (or both), its influence on pop culture is inarguable. Hard to see how it doesn’t make Alan’s list of top-7 “NASA themed” films.

    13. From the last thread:

      Just a Bush: Okay then my portuguese compadre – everybody’s funny, now you’re funny too :)

      Wait, you’re portuguese? :)

    14. Raven: Plus there are mystery elements (Kemba, now Cam) that are like characters that show up in episode 6, that could change the story line for better or for worse. Or not at all.

      Hahaha. It’s so early in the day, and we already have a comment-of-the-thread candidate. ;)

    15. October Sky is special to me because I grew up watching it endlessly with my dad. Obviously, it’s a movie about a son and father moreso than anything else, which made it one of our favorites to watch together (and my younger brother). Chris Cooper does a great job playing a reserved father in a bunch of movies.

      Moon. Great movie with Sam Rockwell & Spacey. Not sure you’d want to touch a Spacey movie, not sure I’d want to rewatch it with him.

      Planet of the Apes is a classic. (Looking it up it’s technically “ANSA” in the movie, but I mean come on.)

      2001 can’t not be included.

      Arrival was very good, but not quite great. Mentioning it because I don’t see it anywhere else. (edit: I took to long writing it and it appeared. Also not sure if NASA is actually involved or not.)

    16. I don’t think there’s any reference to NASA, but it is inspired by NASA history. Does Wall-e qualify? If it does, it’s a must. One of the best movies i have ever seen.

    17. First Man with Ryan Gosling as Neil Armstrong may not have the glitz and glamour of other NASA movies but I dug it.

      Apollo 13 is the standard for me.

    18. Even though there’s a sizable faction who regard 2001 as a crushing bore, pretentious twaddle (or both), its influence on pop culture is inarguable. Hard to see how it doesn’t make Alan’s list of top-7 “NASA themed” films.

      I regret to inform y’all that I am part of the sizable “crushing bore” faction. I admire the hell out of 2001 on a technical level, and understand exactly why it is one of the most important and influential movies ever made. But I find it a miserable slog to sit through, as I did once again to prep for this draft.

      Also, the way Screen Drafts work is that you are simultaneously competing and collaborating with another person, taking turns making picks on the Top 7 so that you don’t have complete control over it. So while I will probably not play 2001, it’s entirely possible my co-drafter will.

      (If you like movies, it’s a fun show, though episodes are absurdly long, running 2 hours at a minimum and often over 3.)

    19. I’ll also throw Sunshine in there. Danny Boyle makes great films, I always thought Sunshine got short shrift.

    20. Sunshine is one I’ve thought about, though I haven’t seen it in years.

      As for Contact, while John Hurt is helping to pay for the project, there’s a lot of NASA logos and such in there throughout. And the real NASA got very upset over the scene where some of their scientists give Jodie Foster a cyanide pill in the event the mission goes very badly.

    21. I also want to tout First Man. It was a contrarian view of NASA that focuses on just how dangerous and out of control their whole operate is. And peaks with Claire Foye (playing Janet Armstrong) screaming at Kyle Chandler (Deke Slayton):

      “All these protocols and procedures to make it seem like you have it under control. But you’re a bunch of boys making models out of balsa wood. You don’t have anything under control!”

    22. I like First Man a lot. Like Contact vs Interstellar, feels like First Man and Gravity are competing for one “grieving parent learns firsthand how goddamn dangerous space travel is” spot.

    23. Since I’ve been very critical of our approach in the 2021 draft, it’s only fair that I mention I am reasonably excited about Rokas. Max has done yeoman’s work on #RokasWatch so just to summarize:

      -He’s in the consensus best non-NBA league (La Liga ACB) in the world (Mirotic, Exum, Calathes, and some other AAAA types are on his team alone)

      -When you combine his Euroleague tournament and La Liga numbers he’s putting up 16 points, 5 assists, and 3.5 rebounds per-36 on 55/42/75 (59 2PT% on around 8.5 2PA/36) shooting splits

      -He is newly 21

      -I have not watched a single full game so I’m risking embarrassment here, but based on assorted clips I’ve seen Dragic seems like a very high-percentile but reasonable comp

    24. Dragic is who I’d compare him to also. But with the important caveat that Rokas’s scoring & assist numbers blow Dragic’s final Euro season’s out of the water (although Dragic did have much better stl numbers).

      I think the players people worry about when they think of Euroleague players are largely players who got drafted on hype and not production. Killian Hayes, Frank Ntilkina, and Mario Hezonja weren’t putting up these kinds of numbers at this level of basketball. It’s no guarantee, but it’s a reason to get very excited.

    25. Bondy:

      Kemba Walker and Cam Reddish are listed as out for tonight’s game.

      Kemba’s situation is noteworthy. He’d been listed as questionable for over a week before games and Thibodeau kept teasing a quick return. Now he’s downgraded to out.

    26. yeah I was thinking about Kemba recently. he went from “sore knees” to “no sign of coming back” real fast, didn’t he?

    27. In the “Where’s NASA?” bucket I’d also throw in Independence Day, a not-good movie but the only reference to NASA I remember is Will Smith’s character getting turned down by them in his attempt to become an astronaut, at the start of the movie.

      There may be NASA characters in the early part, but I’m not masochistic enough to watch it again.

    28. Alan:
      Dumb question to start off a slow news day, before we get back to litigating the Reddish trade: what are your favorite scripted movies involving NASA? I’m on a podcast next week called Screen Drafts where you have to come up with a top 7 list from various genres, and this is that episode’s theme. Can be historically based like Right Stuff or Apollo 13, or wholly fictional like 2001 or The Martian, but has to be connected to NASA in some way (ie, no Star Wars or Avatar). I have lots of ideas, but am trying to narrow down a list of about a dozen contenders.

      It wasn’t a single movie, but HBO’s miniseries From the Earth to the Moon was excellent, as I recall. Maybe pick an outstanding episode or two out of that?

    29. Knicks are 4-1 since Burks became the starting PG. I suspect that has something to do with Kemba sitting on the bench.

      In those 5 games, the Knicks have a 106.7 DRTG. That would be good for 4th in league (just barely ahead of the Clippers).

      Could be Thibs doesn’t feel the need to rush Kemba back. Could be that Kemba is back in the doghouse. What we know is Thibs is a creature of habit, so if we keep winning Burks will probably keep starting. Also, sore knees for Kemba isn’t exactly sore knees.

      — —

      As a note, we had an ~100 DRTG in the 5 games before Burks started, but those were the infamous G-League games. Raptors were the only NBA team and put up 120 on us.

    30. It wasn’t a single movie, but HBO’s miniseries From the Earth to the Moon was excellent, as I recall. Maybe pick an outstanding episode or two out of that?

      Oh, I love the lunar module and Apollo 12 episodes more than a handful of astronaut movies, but it’s a movie-only game. I’ll mention those in passing, along with Apple TV+’s fantastic show “For All Mankind.” (Not to be confused with the excellent documentary of the same name, which is also ineligible.)

    31. Alan: Contact is one I am considering (possibly that or Interstellar as the token “aliens reach out and encourage us to travel to another galaxy” film, and/or as the token McConaughey film). Curious how you define “terrible great movie.” There are definitely problems withit.

      Agree w Donnie. MM’s whole character is I’ll conceived and poorly written. And I love MM. I think the beginning when they first discover the alien presence was government run lab. Not sure it’s NASA tho.

      There’s The Right Stuff and then there’s everything else for this list.

    32. Arrival is an amazing film my favorite Sci fi movie.

      I figured our record was worse with Burks starting at PG but we did look bad in those early games. The defense improvement makes sense with the size switchability and with Noel returning I expect the defense to stay great.

      Cam at the 4 is interesting alongside Julius since he can actually stretch the floor unlike Obi. Doubt Thibs would go small with the bigs healthy tho.

    33. KevinR:

      I figured our record was worse with Burks starting at PG.

      We’re 8-9 in the 17 games Burks started this year, I’ll check his PG record ;-)

      @TNFH
      The Dragon is a nice comp for Rokas, especially if you think at 2010’s Phoenix version, and EB is right, at the same age Rokas has faced stronger competition.

    34. Alan: Oh, I love the lunar module and Apollo 12 episodes more than a handful of astronaut movies, but it’s a movie-only game. I’ll mention those in passing, along with Apple TV+’s fantastic show “For All Mankind.” (Not to be confused with the excellent documentary of the same name, which is also ineligible.)

      Yes, I recall the Apollo 11 episode where Buzz Aldrin came across as a bit odd and Neil Armstrong dealing with him patiently.. Also, I recall one on the lives of the wives of the astronauts that was pretty good. All the fears and such that they had to live with with husbands in such a dangerous line of work.

      IIRC there were lots of good episodes telling many different tales from the 60’s and early 70’s.

      Now I want to dig out the dvd set and watch again!

    35. Alan: Oh, I love the lunar module and Apollo 12 episodes more than a handful of astronaut movies, but it’s a movie-only game. I’ll mention those in passing, along with Apple TV+’s fantastic show “For All Mankind.” (Not to be confused with the excellent documentary of the same name, which is also ineligible.)

      My wife and I loved For All Mankind, it just got better and better.

      I believe you recommended it a while back, Alan, so thanks!

    36. If we win tonight, the Hawks will be in quite a hole. I know we’re only midway through the season, but 8 games below .500 is not an easy hurdle to overcome.

    37. Arrival was very good, but not quite great. Mentioning it because I don’t see it anywhere else. (edit: I took to long writing it and it appeared. Also not sure if NASA is actually involved or not.)

      I hate to be that guy, but the novella by Chiang is one of the best sci-fi pieces I’ve read. Had me tearing up. The central theme of Arrival (“Would you still do something if you knew for a fact just how badly it would end?”) is perfect sci-fi humanist stuff.

      The movie tried very hard, but wasn’t quite “it” for me.

    38. For the esteemed consideration of you all:

      Moon (2009), directed by Duncan Jones and starring Sam Rockwell: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUraLNrTVeg

      In part, the movie addresses the industrialization of the moon. It also touches on another interesting, soon to be reality, theme of what it is to be human.

      It makes you wonder, when we do finally reach the stars – what exact iteration/copy of a copy will it be that arrives at that point.

    39. “But what was it about, dad? What was it about?”

      Now that you have viewed the movie, countless times, may I be so bold as to ask: what is it about?

    40. Burks started at PG earlier in the year to some less stellar results, I’m just talking about the most recent stint. Entirely because I forgot about the earlier stint.

      Some of those games Burks started were on the wing.

    41. Burks is kind of a jack of all trades for Thibs.
      Of his 17 starts, 3 were with Kemba, 2 with Rose, 1 with IQ (who’s the PG there?) and in 11 he was the “supposed” PG (officially we played those games with 3 SG in the starting lineup).

      The first section of the experiment went wrong (2-4) the second one, still running, is going better (4-1).
      So it’s 6-5 (6-6 if we count the game with IQ), not bad.

      Strange enough (or maybe not so), he’s shooting way worse as a starter:

      FG% 33% vs 45.3%
      3FG% 34.7% vs 47%
      TS% 49% vs 61.9%

      with similar usage (18.7% vs 18.9%).

      I think (and fear) he’s a coveted asset on the trade market.

    42. Early Bird:
      I count 7-5 in point-Burks games. Clicked through fast, so may not be accurate.

      My post is not an answer to yours, I was checking/writing before ;-)

    43. Max: My post is not an answer to yours, I was checking/writing before ;-)

      Nah, you’re right anyways. I don’t count the IQ game but I do think it’s ambiguous. Also, it was against CHI, so we weren’t winning that anyway. We did make it close though.

      I don’t think it’s Burks improving the team necessarily, but Thibs won’t want to risk changing anything regardless. That’s what I was trying to get at.

    44. Moon (2009), directed by Duncan Jones and starring Sam Rockwell:

      I like that one a lot, but it’s about a private company on the moon, so ineligible with the parameters we chose.

    45. @StevePopper
      Nate McMillan just spoke of Reddish’s potential and said he has Paul George type body and skills. But he said with the request to leave that explains why he was in a reduced role. Said has great potential and is a great kid.

      Obviously, it’s easy for McMillan to be magnanimous about a guy who’s not his headache anymore. But it would also be very easy for him to be passive-aggressive, or more, about a guy he no longer has to cover for. Nonetheless, file it under Talk Is Cheap for now.

    46. Alan:
      Dumb question to start off a slow news day, before we get back to litigating the Reddish trade: what are your favorite scripted movies involving NASA? I’m on a podcast next week called Screen Drafts where you have to come up with a top 7 list from various genres, and this is that episode’s theme. Can be historically based like Right Stuff or Apollo 13, or wholly fictional like 2001 or The Martian, but has to be connected to NASA in some way (ie, no Star Wars or Avatar). I have lots of ideas, but am trying to narrow down a list of about a dozen contenders.

      Not necessarily NASA, but Solaris was basically a big f you to Kubrick’s 2001. It’s super fun to watch a 5 minute drive through a city make fun of and look more futuristic than the slow floating spaceship. Tarkovsky is a beast.

      Moon was great.

    47. Must be a movie. Needs to include NASA.

      The list of decent movies only goes maybe five deep.

      Outside the parameters – Outland is a fun film.

    48. https://nypost.com/2022/01/15/cam-reddish-trade-means-every-move-is-on-table-of-knicks/?utm_source=twitter_sitebuttons&utm_medium=site%20buttons&utm_campaign=site%20buttons

      Some interesting tidbits in here:

      -We want Jalen Brunson real bad (I could see us swapping Mitch + picks for him)

      -The Knicks “might not be as sold as they were in August” on Randle

      -The Knicks think Reddish can play 3 positions (happy to hear it, would like to see as much lineup creativity as possible)

    49. Just a Bush: Now that you have viewed the movie, countless times, may I be so bold as to ask: what is it about?

      And finally i found out that it’s you, Geo! :P Here i was thinking you were a “portuguese compadre”, it was early in the morning and i read it wrong. LOL. I am the “portuguese compadre”! Duuuh!

    50. I would be sad to lose Mitch, but I would begrudgingly swap him out for Brunson if we didn’t have to include much else.

      The Dragon is a nice comp for Rokas, especially if you think at 2010’s Phoenix version, and EB is right, at the same age Rokas has faced stronger competition.

      I’m glad our resident Rokas expert agrees. Hope to see him next season, lord knows we could use just about any version of Dragic. I’d sign up for the 2020’s version.

    51. thenoblefacehumper:
      https://nypost.com/2022/01/15/cam-reddish-trade-means-every-move-is-on-table-of-knicks/?utm_source=twitter_sitebuttons&utm_medium=site%20buttons&utm_campaign=site%20buttons

      Some interesting tidbits in here:

      -We want Jalen Brunson real bad (I could see us swapping Mitch + picks for him)

      -The Knicks “might not be as sold as they were in August” on Randle

      -The Knicks think Reddish can play 3 positions (happy to hear it, would like to see as much lineup creativity as possible)

      I just don’t believe a lot of this. Of course sportswriters love to hint big moves are coming, but they exaggerate small things. The Knicks are obviously kicking the tires on deals all the time, but they could easily not do anything. For all the talk of having lots of wing players, most of those players are smaller than Barrett and we didn’t have a real backup for him. We traded to fill that hole and got a young player with potential. We could easily stand pat with that.

    52. Winnable game, they’re without Capela and Bogdanovic.
      A win would push the Hawks deeper in their hole and maybe help them implode.
      At the same time they have lost 9 straight at home, are on a b-t-b and very angry.

      Classic trap game.

      Let’s Go Knicks!

    53. Let’s go Knicks! Love seeing RJ dish often at the start of games. I wish he would keep that up after the first quarter ends.

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