Knicks Morning News (2021.12.08)

  • RJ Barrett shows he might just be key to it all for Knicks – New York Post
    [nypost.com] — Wednesday, December 8, 2021 1:13:00 AM

    RJ Barrett shows he might just be key to it all for Knicks  New York Post

  • Knicks takeaways from Tuesday’s 121-109 win over Spurs, including RJ Barrett’s career-best seven three-pointers – Yahoo Sports
    [sports.yahoo.com] — Wednesday, December 8, 2021 12:45:00 AM

    Knicks takeaways from Tuesday’s 121-109 win over Spurs, including RJ Barrett’s career-best seven three-pointers  Yahoo SportsSpurs vs. Knicks live stream info, TV channel: How to watch NBA on TV, stream online  CBS SportsGregg Popovich: ‘Future is bright’ for Knicks’ Luka Samanic  New York Post New York Knicks vs San Antonio Spurs: Betting odds and Prediction  Daily KnicksNewly-benched Robinson helps propel Knicks past Spurs  NewsdayView Full Coverage on Google News

  • Tom Thibodeau Was Caught On The Microphone Saying Some Not So Nice Words To The Refs – Sports Illustrated
    [www.si.com] — Wednesday, December 8, 2021 12:22:25 AM

    Tom Thibodeau Was Caught On The Microphone Saying Some Not So Nice Words To The Refs  Sports Illustrated

  • Barrett makes seven 3s, Knicks beat Spurs to snap three-game skid – theday.com
    [www.theday.com] — Tuesday, December 7, 2021 11:59:54 PM

    Barrett makes seven 3s, Knicks beat Spurs to snap three-game skid  theday.com

  • Opinion: The New York Knicks Should Trade For This Star Player To Save Their Season – Sports Illustrated
    [www.si.com] — Tuesday, December 7, 2021 11:59:04 PM

    Opinion: The New York Knicks Should Trade For This Star Player To Save Their Season  Sports Illustrated

  • New York Notes: Claxton, Kemba, Noel, Thibs – hoopsrumors.com
    [www.hoopsrumors.com] — Tuesday, December 7, 2021 11:10:00 PM

    New York Notes: Claxton, Kemba, Noel, Thibs  hoopsrumors.com

  • N.Y. Knicks 121, San Antonio 109 – SFGate
    [www.sfgate.com] — Tuesday, December 7, 2021 10:54:23 PM

    N.Y. Knicks 121, San Antonio 109  SFGate

  • Kemba Walker Spoke About Being Taken Out Of The Rotation – Sports Illustrated
    [www.si.com] — Tuesday, December 7, 2021 10:30:29 PM

    Kemba Walker Spoke About Being Taken Out Of The Rotation  Sports Illustrated

  • The Crossover: Simmons To Portland Rumors & Knicks Sliding Fast – Sports Illustrated
    [www.si.com] — Tuesday, December 7, 2021 9:31:14 PM

    The Crossover: Simmons To Portland Rumors & Knicks Sliding Fast  Sports Illustrated

  • New York Knicks -2.5 Vs. San Antonio Spurs – SportsGrid
    [www.sportsgrid.com] — Tuesday, December 7, 2021 7:29:47 PM

    New York Knicks -2.5 Vs. San Antonio Spurs  SportsGrid

  • Tom Thibodeau may have to live outside his comfort zone to fix Knicks – New York Post
    [nypost.com] — Tuesday, December 7, 2021 7:15:00 PM

    Tom Thibodeau may have to live outside his comfort zone to fix Knicks  New York Post

  • Knicks’ Kemba Walker sells Massachusetts mansion amid career struggle – New York Post
    [nypost.com] — Tuesday, December 7, 2021 6:53:00 PM

    Knicks’ Kemba Walker sells Massachusetts mansion amid career struggle  New York Post

  • New York Knicks: Tom Thibodeau called out RJ Barrett – Daily Knicks
    [dailyknicks.com] — Tuesday, December 7, 2021 6:00:00 PM

    New York Knicks: Tom Thibodeau called out RJ Barrett  Daily Knicks

  • Indiana Rapper Kid Quill To Perform At Indiana Pacers Vs. New York Knicks Game – HipHopDX
    [hiphopdx.com] — Tuesday, December 7, 2021 3:40:00 PM

    Indiana Rapper Kid Quill To Perform At Indiana Pacers Vs. New York Knicks Game  HipHopDX

  • Nerlens Noel may be joining the Knicks starting rotation – FantasyPros
    [www.fantasypros.com] — Tuesday, December 7, 2021 2:51:00 PM

    Nerlens Noel may be joining the Knicks starting rotation  FantasyPros

  • Knicks top 75 list: No. 5 Red Holzman – New York Post
    [nypost.com] — Tuesday, December 7, 2021 2:30:00 PM

    Knicks top 75 list: No. 5 Red Holzman  New York Post

  • New York Knicks vs San Antonio Spurs: Betting odds and Prediction – Daily Knicks
    [dailyknicks.com] — Tuesday, December 7, 2021 2:00:00 PM

    New York Knicks vs San Antonio Spurs: Betting odds and Prediction  Daily Knicks

  • Best NBA Bets Dec. 7: Celtics, Knicks, Lakers, Mavericks, Nets, Spurs, – NBA Analysis Network
    [www.nbaanalysis.net] — Tuesday, December 7, 2021 11:51:57 AM

    Best NBA Bets Dec. 7: Celtics, Knicks, Lakers, Mavericks, Nets, Spurs,  NBA Analysis Network

  • Why Alec Burks is proving to be Knicks’ Swiss Army knife of production – Yahoo Sports
    [sports.yahoo.com] — Tuesday, December 7, 2021 10:30:54 AM

    Why Alec Burks is proving to be Knicks’ Swiss Army knife of production  Yahoo Sports

  • Should NY Knicks aggressively pursue a trade for Dejounte Murray? – Daily Knicks
    [dailyknicks.com] — Tuesday, December 7, 2021 10:00:00 AM

    Should NY Knicks aggressively pursue a trade for Dejounte Murray?  Daily Knicks

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    84 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2021.12.08)”

    1. The news algorithm seems back on track. Excellent.

      Agree with those from end of previous thread saying last night was a game we should have won. That said, we’ve lost a bunch of those “should” games this season, including twice to the flipping Magic. So I’ll take what I can get. That said, it’s kind of funny to keep track of the number of times throughout this season where Macri’s opening monologue from his post-game show contains some variation on “I feel like later in the season, we’re going to look back on this game as a turning point.”

      RJ shot much better from 3. That’s fantastic. If he can get back to last year’s 3-point percentages, it fixes a lot of problems for this team. But he needs to do that pretty consistently, and/or Johnny Bryant and company have to somehow teach him to finish better at the rim.

      Noel looks like a mess, and not just because of the butter stumps on offense. He just seems not fully healthy, and I’d rather Thibs just start Taj for a while and let Noel rest and heal. Isn’t that one of the reasons you have a Taj on the roster?

    2. To address the call-out on the game thread, I’ll reiterate:

      I’m fine with Thibs getting credit for “pushing the right buttons” re RJ and others … just so long as he gets un-credit for not “pushing the right buttons” when RJ and others don’t play well. But, curiously, the latter never seems to happen.

    3. I’m not gonna get carried away with last night’s victory either, but the Spurs did beat the Warriors in GS a few nights ago, and a road win is a road win.

      Tonight will be a test, the Pacers aren’t playing particularly well but they are healthy and probably a little desperate to turn things around.

      And Myles Turner is not Jakob Poeltl (unfortunately)

    4. RJ is just a very streaky player. He needs to lengthen and broaden the hot streaks, and shorten and narrow the cold streaks. That’s what he is and there’s no need to overcomplicate things.

    5. Spurs are a team we should beat but I’m always looking at the process and it was good last night. Randle keeping TO’s low and moving the ball, RJ breaking out of his slump and Mitch showing why we value his potential so highly.

    6. Spurs aren’t great but they aren’t garbage and it was an away game and the Spurs have been playing pretty well recently. And I didn’t feel like The Spurs played bad in this game and gave it to us. We didn’t entirely put them away but we also were pretty much in control from the 2nd quarter on.

      I actually thought Noel was decent last night as the starter. RJ was obviously the story of the night and if this is the start of his turnaround, we’re gonna be a lot happier on this blog going forward. But I think the other huge factor last night was that Mitch was fantastic off the bench and for the first time this season our supposed advantage at the C position was a real thing. Mitch and Noel together provided a full game of rebounding, shot blocking, and defense (with some bonus offense).

      Also, Randle played within himself. He drew that attention in the first half that allowed RJ to operate and let RJ shine and then came on in the second half with the 3’s and those 2 baseline fadeaways to seal the game. That is when I want Randle taking those types of shots. After he’s scored some and is feeling it and picks his moments to put the dagger in the opposing team.

      Overall, it was a quality win. RJ was great. Mitch was great. Randle was good and the rest of the cast all contributed to varying degrees. Burks, IQ and Rose did their thing. Obi was not great but got a few buckets. It was an all around team effort.

      And going back to Randle. Hopefully he realizes that he can not be “the man” every game all game and still be a huge part of the team winning. The thing is he is always going to be the man in the opposing team’s eyes but he has other players around him who can score. Draw the attention and let the others score. Then go to work.

      We have a real chance here to win 2 more before we face The Bucks.

      OF course they’re gonna say this is turning a corner but it really could be if RJ is shaking off the slump and Mitch is waking up. The team has…

    7. From the get go I have said the strength of this team is our depth and it is still true. But maybe the difficulty of that for Thibs is knowing which combo of players to play and how/when to play them. And for the players, trusting that any one of them can be the man on any given night and the way for them to win is to play team ball, share, hustle, play good defense (can I type any more cliches?). But its true. We do not have an elite superstar or two to carry us. But we have a lot of guys who could be the third or fourth best player on a really good team. So when you have a team like that, the only way to win is to play unselfishly and Thibs has to trust the entire team and make some good intuitive guesses for which buttons to push on any given night.

    8. Despite recently beating the Warriors (when Curry shot 7-28 including 5-17 from 3s, it happens in the best families) the Spurs were 8-14 before this game and lost Keldon Johnson early, so it’s not like we did slain some juggernaut, but anyway a nice little win and a bowl of hot broth for our tormented souls.

      Things I love from this game:

      – RJ’s resurrection (mostly a good shooting night from outside, he was 4-12 elsewhere). Some of us wanted him to play more with the second unit, yesterday he did it.

      – Mitch’s good game against one of the few old-style centers still scouring the prairies. Tonight it’s Turner & Sabonis, let’s see.

      – Randle’s timely hoops that make me cringe every single time. We can win with him picking his spots*, I hope he can make peace with that (or we’re screwed, badly).
      * I think we can win even more without him but this is for another thread…

      – Burks as Wing-Burks. I appreciate the effort, but he’s not a PG, let him fly…

      – IQ as Sweet Lou Lite-Quickley. OTOH he needs to work on his clock management skill.

      – Toppin in the paint. His airballs are another argument…

      Things I hate from this game:

      – The 8 seconds violation, because we miss a true PG and we’re scared by mild press defense.

      – RJ’s missed dunk, lazy and careless. Oh, I hate his weak drives too.

      – Mitch’s missed dunk: still some weight to loose.

      – Fournier’s turnover when he lost the handle on Rose OReb, lazy and careless. Wake up Marquis, wake up!

      – Toppin’s substitution in the second quarter, with the Knicks on a run, after a string of good plays. And his only 13 minutes (in which he was plus-8).

    9. Things I liked: a lot of stuff, but our two-headed center scored 13 pts with 23 rebounds, 4 blocked shots, and 2 steals.

      Things I didn’t: not much, but I will never like Obi relegated to 12 minutes. I want him to be in the 15-20 range.

      Otherwise, what was not to like. Want to see Deuce get a few minutes, but maybe tonight…

      Edit: Beat me to it, Max. Nicely done.

    10. At the end of the day all I ask them is to give 100% effort every play (I’m okay with 95%…) then it doesn’t matter so much if you win or lose, you’ll be easily rootable, like last year.

      This team instead has long breaks in which they play too entitled, careless and lazy. In those they get regularly spanked and I really get mad.

    11. Also, I know it was discussed last night in the game thread, but the moment when Clyde compared our ball movement to the Bill Bradley days made my heart sing. There are times when Clyde is very much on autopilot with his various catchphrases, but you could tell how excited he was to see us play like that.

    12. One of the other strengths of the team besides depth was supposed to be our 3pt shooting. Getting RJ whos our 3rd highest usage player back into a respectable shooter will help us tremendously.

    13. Long piece on Myles Turner in The Ringer today. For all the lovers, and haters, and people just wanting to prep for the game this evening.

    14. E, all merc’d out:
      To address the call-out on the game thread, I’ll reiterate:

      I’m fine with Thibs getting credit for “pushing the right buttons” re RJ and others … just so long as he gets un-credit for not “pushing the right buttons” when RJ and others don’t play well.But, curiously, the latter never seems to happen.

      Straw man alert

    15. FWIW the Spurs did enter last night with a top 10 defense. I don’t think we necessarily “broke” their defense per se–RJ Barrett and co. just hit a ton of threes–but it’s something. The guy we traded for Andrea Bargnani is pretty damn good it turns out.

      The biggest flaw I see in our offense is we have very few players who can generate easy looks at the rim. Our 3PT shooting will fluctuate as it always does, but overall we can be reasonably confident we have good shooters. We’ll always look very good on nights like last night when almost half of them go down, but that’s not going to happen very often and we’re kind of helpless when it doesn’t.

      We’ve beaten this horse to death, but it really is important to get Randle more looks at the rim. He’s the only guy on the roster, save for maybe Obi but we don’t know about that yet, who can be a high-volume, high-efficiency scorer at the rim. We should also probably try to get more lobs for Mitch but before anyone jumps down my throat I understand that’s not so easy.

      I’m fine with Thibs getting credit for “pushing the right buttons” re RJ and others … just so long as he gets un-credit for not “pushing the right buttons” when RJ and others don’t play well. But, curiously, the latter never seems to happen.

      This really isn’t a rah-rah pro-Thibs board. People (myself included) criticize his minutes distributions, defensive schemes, etc. without unfair pushback. People ignore you because you attribute every single negative outcome to the guy, which is just as senseless as crediting him for every positive outcome. You have an axe to grind and you always grind it. It’s not good analysis, and it’s also boring.

    16. swiftandabundant:
      From the get go I have said the strength of this team is our depth and it is still true. But maybe the difficulty of that for Thibs is knowing which combo of players to play and how/when to play them. And for the players, trusting that any one of them can be the man on any given night and the way for them to win is to play team ball, share, hustle, play good defense (can I type any more cliches?). But its true. We do not have an elite superstar or two to carry us. But we have a lot of guys who could be the third or fourth best player on a really good team. So when you have a team like that, the only way to win is to play unselfishly and Thibs has to trust the entire team and make some good intuitive guesses for which buttons to push on any given night.

      i agree with this but thibs has to be on board as well…randle appears to (and rj to a certain extent) not be a button that is pushed, i.e., he gets his 30 plus something minutes every night…obi and fournier seem to be the (well kemba is numero uno) the first fall guys to get minutes cut even if they are going good… I was looking at fournier’s body language on the bench at the end of the game when it was over and he didn’t look happy, you know kemba’s not happy and not sure how long obi is going to be happy with 10-12 minutes…it is clear (absent his nonexistent 3 pt shooting percentage) that obi can be a net positive in a way that we need it (running, jumping, crafty moves down low)…depth is great but keeping everybody happy and not playing favorites is going to be thibs’ toughest challenge..

    17. The one thing we can be sure of is that Thibs will not do anything he thinks has a significant probability of costing him a win. If he’s playing Obi fewer minutes, that’s probably his thinking. I’m not worried at all about it because that’s who he is and we know that by now.

    18. I’m not sure there’s a guy on the team whose defense varies as much as Randle. He is legit a very good defender when he’s engaged, and just so awful when he’s not. Last night he played such a complete game – defended well, sprayed the ball around, took his shots when in the flow of the offense.

      Last year it seemed like he really brought it on both ends of the floor every night. Has been much more hit and miss this year. Between that intensity, RJ forgetting how to shoot, and Mitch playing/looking like Endgame Thor, it’s no wonder we’ve been mediocre.

      by the way – loving Obi running the floor in transition, getting into the paint, sealing the guard that’s back, and getting those easy layups. That has to be a thing going forward. Throw it up high – no PG/SG tasked with getting back will be able to get that.

    19. The game here started at 1:30AM, so as it was being a “super entertaining” game (NOOOT), at the end of the 1st quarter i was like… Zzzzzzz… :D But happy that we did our part and got the win! :)

    20. RJ highlighting the ball movement in his post game comments was kind of interesting. I kind of wish I had wrote the “he can’t be this bad” post that RJ deserved before the game because I did feel he was due. You can’t miss open shots all the time.

    21. I’m not saying this team should make a win-now move for a non superstar. But if they want to, Myles Turner is about as perfect a move as you can ask for. Switching from Mitch to Noel was like benching Strat for Deeefense.

      And yes, I did just read the ringer article posted above. Myles has apparently taken more 3’s and blocked more shots than anyone ever. We could become an entirely different offense with him opening up the court without impacting the defense.

    22. I wouldn’t read TOO much into Fournier’s body language. He could have just been unhappy that he didn’t have a good game again. It’s hard to read into that stuff.

    23. I am not entirely sure why Indiana wants to trade Turner.
      If you ask me, Sabonis is the one that sticks out like a sore thumb. He’s a really nice player, but he’s a big who can’t protect the rim and can’t space the floor. His #s are superficially similar to Randle, but Randle plays more like a wing on offense and can space the floor if necessary.

      Turner is leading the league in block% and has shot 35.6% on ~1000 career 3s. And he’s actually a good defender. in comparison, Porzingis has shot 35.7% on ~1500 career 3s and is not actually a good defender, is injured every 10 minutes, and makes nearly double.

    24. I love Myles Turner. Always have. I remember how excited I was when I drafted him late in a fantasy league.

      I’d miss Mitch a ton though.

    25. I would miss Mitch too and games like last night give me hope for his future. But if Myles is a better offensive player, just as good (or even slightly better on defense) and can stretch the floor. To me Mitch, Knox and some seconds or the charlotte first seems like a nice upgrade we could do. I also think you can slot Miles in right away and team chemistry wouldn’t be hurt too much, the learning curve on getting him up to speed wouldn’t be too bad.

    26. And yes, I did just read the ringer article posted above.

      i think if you write this sort of article you owe it to the reader to present directly relevant contrary data that doesn’t fit your angle well. especially if you are using noise-imbued supporting evidence like 1/4 season of lineup data.

      Sabonis needs Turner a lot more than Turner needs him. Indiana’s defensive rating is 10 points higher when Sabonis is the sole big man compared to when Turner is next to him.

      accurate. but i think the average reader would be surprised from that context to learn that indy’s d this year has been even worse when turner plays without sabonis: almost 14/100 worse than both together.

      over the last four years indy is +1.4 with both, +2.2 w turner only and +2.6 w sabonis only.

      and i actually agree with his main point. i think turner’s marginal value is maximized playing with someone different than sabonis. turner and towns would be interesting but mighty challenging against some offenses. turner and christian wood or john collins are pretty interesting. since turner has been at least somewhat of a fake-spacer, you don’t get much stretch by sticking him with another faux spacer like sabonis, while still sacrificing a good bit of turner’s interior production.

    27. Sweet Loretta Martin thought she was a woman
      But she was another man

      it’s funny, i tend to loop songs over and over at times when i’m listening to music…with the beatles playing these songs over and over again during ‘Get Back’, some of those lyrics are seriously seared in to my brain now…

      re-watched the scene where they were talking about the roof show…i had to watch it a few times cuz it was difficult to hear all the words or know whom was saying them…

      so, it starts with paul basically telling everyone he doesn’t even wanna talk about the “proposed” rooftop show that “may” happen the next day…so, george completely ignoring him says out loud: of course i don’t wanna go up on the roof – like it was the most obvious thing in the world :)

      then ringo says he wants to go up on the roof, and john follows with the same statement…that’s when paul concedes and asks about the set list…

      never really appreciated the piano work on some of the songs from let it be and abby road before, but, yeah billy preston really added a bunch to the sound…

    28. I made a post to this effect right before the game thread went up last night so it got lost to the ether but I think some people are underestimating the package it would take to get Turner.

      Macri said in his newsletter he’d declare IQ, Obi, and RJ untouchable in a turner deal, and while I don’t necessarily disagree I think that would be a non-starter for Indiana (outside of scenarios in which we include a ton of picks).

      Mitch, Knox, Obi, and a random small salary like Selden’s are a match salary wise, and I think the over/under on a Turner package is those guys and a non-fake first rounder of some sort. There are decent arguments on both sides as to whether it would be a good idea to trade that package for Turner. I probably lean against it due to skepticism Turner can keep producing at this level but I wouldn’t be devastated.

    29. The Athletic had an NBA writer roundtable about potential Pacers deals, and all seemed to agree that Golden State and/or Charlotte would very much want to add Turner. He’s not going to come for free.

    30. In the first couple games, RJ was finishing at the rim near 71%. If he really had a stomach bug, maybe his rim numbers will go up too.

      I don’t think Turner fixes things too much. Let’s wait and see if RJ and Randle turn it around first. Unless that happens, no moves will fix this team and it won’t make sense to spend picks or young players on Turner.

    31. I’d feel better about overpaying for Turner’s if his contract was longer. I would not give up two good young players plus a good pick for a 1 1/2 year rental. Is there some sort of sign-and-trade extension that could be worked out (I don’t think there is, but am not a capologist.)

    32. I don’t think the market for Cs is that good. I think they’re aiming for a 1RP or a young prospect. Maybe both if they can, but what team would do that? Maybe GSW offers Wiseman and a pick, because Turner would help them win now, but i think that’s it. All that said, my offer would be Noel, Knox and a 1RP. They get a similar player in Noel, but making way less money, and (like Arron Afflalo) when they want they can trade him for two 2RP or something. Probably the 1RP and the money they’d save is enough to make a deal.

    33. How is Turner, at $18,000,000 a year, an overpay? That’s what Evan Fournier and Tim Hardaway get paid.

    34. I didn’t want to suggest Noel because I think they would rather have Mitch. But yeah, Noel, Knox and a 1 RP would seem to be a solid deal. Turner isn’t a star. I wouldn’t even put him in the Jrue Holiday category of player and we’re definitely not The Bucks trying to do everything we can to keep a generational superstar on our team. There is no need to offer some big package for him. We could throw in a second rounder or two to sweeten the pot too cause we got so many of them now.

    35. About the PG, and as Noble has destroyed my dreams by reminding us all that Brogdon can’t be traded this season, i’m back at the drawing board. :( Wouldn’t it be nice to have a good starting PG here, for a change?

    36. I think DRed and Z-Man meant overpaying when making the trade, meaning offer too much assets for him.

    37. TNFH I was figuring the price for Turner to be something like Mitch, Deuce or Rokas, our first round pick this year (unprotected), the Dallas pick next year, and our first round pick the year after (reasonably protected).

      We’d have to throw in Noel or Kemba to make salaries work. That could expand the trade to other teams, and maybe we get something back in return for Noel or Kemba.

      It is definitely a steep price, but it is also a good return. If the lightly toasted Hornets pick converts this year, we’ll still have a first in every draft.

      Perhaps most importantly: we’ve seen how little this front office values surplus picks. If we don’t use them for Turner, we’ll likely to trade one for a top-17 protected pick in 2028 and another one to move up three spots in the draft.

    38. we’ve seen how little this front office values surplus picks

      This front office has done nothing but add picks to their cupboard since coming on board.

      3 first round picks for Turner? He’s Miles Turner, not Shaquille O’Neal.

      Rose is a 6th man of the year candidate and cost us Dennis Smith JR. and a 2nd round pick. 3 first round picks plus Mitch and other players seems STEEP in comparison.

    39. Since the pick looks like it could convey this year I;m guessing Leon will do everything he can to get rid of it in a deal.

    40. This front office has done nothing but add picks to their cupboard since coming on board.

      No, they haven’t.

      3 first round picks for Turner? He’s Miles Turner, not Shaquille O’Neal.

      If peak Shaquille O’Neal were made available today he would probably cost 8 unprotected firsts. So yeah, I think 3 non-lottery firsts is a fair price for Myles Turner.

      You might not want to pay it, and that’s understandable. But Noel, Knox, and a first is not anywhere close to what it would take.

    41. TNFH I was figuring the price for Turner to be something like Mitch, Deuce or Rokas, our first round pick this year (unprotected), the Dallas pick next year, and our first round pick the year after (reasonably protected).

      Yeah I mean you can swap out Obi in my proposed package for additional picks and/or Deuce or Rokas but sounds like we agree that this is not going to be a Mitch + salary filler + mediocre pick situation.

      To answer soze’s question, I think at a minimum Charlotte, Golden State, and Boston will be interested, Toronto and Dallas are distinct possibilities, and there’s always the possibility of some dumb team like the Kings joining the bidding too.

      Because I think the cost would be pretty steep, I’m partial to trying to create a Turner facsimile by playing the Randle/Obi lineup more and hoping Mitch is turning a serious corner.

    42. This front office has done nothing but add picks to their cupboard since coming on board.

      This is kind of true in a narrow sense but also isn’t tantamount to valuing picks. For example let’s say, completely hypothetically, a team traded the 19th pick in a draft for a future pick that was so heavily protected it very well might become two second-round picks. This would technically either not change or add to the number picks in their “cupboard,” but it wouldn’t be a good example of valuing picks.

    43. Guys, what are you drinking? Harden was valued at 4 firsts, AD at 3 firsts, Jrue at 2 firsts. And Myles freaking Turner would net the Pacers 3 firsts? Seriously, please tell what you’ve been drinking, because that’s some good sh*t for sure.

    44. Hey guys, let’s trade garbage we don’t want for good players! This strategy seems extremely sound.

    45. Well, let’s test the Myles Turner is worth 3 first round picks theory. What could we get for Julius then? Less than Myles is non sense, so please, do tell what would we get because if it’s 4 first round picks, i’m interested.

    46. JK47:
      Hey guys, let’s trade garbage we don’t want for good players! This strategy seems extremely sound.

      yeah…we got a new strategy in the front office that will bewilder/fool other front offices…”buy low…sell high”…

    47. If listening to people fantasize about how someone will give us a really good player for very little isn’t a pleasant way to spend an afternoon I don’t know what is….

    48. Yes, this is a classic example of thinking another team’s player is better than our own assetts.

      Jrue Holiday was an extreme circumstance bc The Bucks desperately needed to keep Giannis and upgrade their PG position and Holiday is quite good, so New Orleans kind of had them over the barrel.

      But Marcus Morris didn’t net us 3 first round picks or even 2. He netted us one pick. One first round pick plus Mitch is actually a pretty good package. Mitch can be resigned for way less than what Myles makes and he’s 22 years old. Throw in Kemba and that is someone who potentially could have a small bounce back and net them an asset next year when he’s expiring.

      I mean, how much are Golden State and Charlotte really going to offer? Golden State’s pick this year will be one of the very last picks in the first round most likely.

      Plus we got a boatload of 2nd round picks to throw into the mix. Mitch, Kemba, a first and a couple of seconds is a pretty nice haul.

    49. You get Myles for this year and next year at his relatively cheap $18M price. Then you have to pay him more to stick around.

      What’s the point of this exactly? Seems like we need to make more foundational, long-range type moves. Getting a decent player for a year and a half doesn’t really move you forward all that much.

    50. Mitch, Kemba, a first and a couple of seconds is a pretty nice haul.

      The most this package would get us is a slightly better first round pick.

    51. Mitch, Kemba, a first and a couple of seconds is a pretty nice haul.

      I have no idea just how much would be required. Maybe it wouldn’t take three firsts, even with none of them being particularly attractive firsts.

      But I can say fairly confidently this wouldn’t even be a top 3 offer.

    52. Kemba is a negative asset, you have to pay him $8M next year and he’s unplayable. Don’t nobody want Kemba Walker.

    53. This is so funny. Even the Sixers are having a hard time trading Simmons, and the Pacers would trade easily Myles Turner for 3 firsts. You guys are clearly overvaluing Myles. At that price, no team will bite and he’ll remain a Pacer until the summer.

    54. JK47: You get Myles for this year and next year at his relatively cheap $18M price. Then you have to pay him more to stick around.

      This is a good point. And that’s why i’d only offer one 1RP, because maybe next year we could trade him to the foolish team that’ll pay him more than 18M and extract the 1RP back. If his cost is more than one 1RP and one young player (Mitch), i’d pass.

    55. Hubert, other teams may not be as down on Mitch as you are. He’s expiring but there is a very real possibility that whoever signs his next contract could be getting Mitch right when he figures it out. And right now he’s probably not commanding more than 10 million a year. If he’s signed for that and takes a leap forward, then he’s an absolute steal. And games like last night are probably very intriguing for teams that might be interested in him.

      To put it blunty. Myles is obviously better than Mitch right now but Mitch in 2 years could be WAY better than Myles and Indiana potentially could get that version of Mitch for way less than what they’re paying Myles now.

      Never mind. Let’s just keep Mitch. I just talked myself out of trading him!

    56. JK47: Kemba is a negative asset, you have to pay him $8M next year and he’s unplayable. Don’t nobody want Kemba Walker.

      We’re only using Kemba for salary matching purposes.

    57. ***Guys, what are you drinking? Harden was valued at 4 firsts, AD at 3 firsts, Jrue at 2 firsts. And Myles freaking Turner would net the Pacers 3 firsts? Seriously, please tell what you’ve been drinking, because that’s some good sh*t for sure.***

      All picks aren’t created equal. And, also, Harden wasn’t just traded for picks. There were a lot of accomplished and young living assets in there too. Same with Davis. If the Knicks want to send young rostered players of value to Indiana, then, sure, 3 picks is too much. But Turner is good, and a lowball offer isn’t going to get anything done.

    58. For the Pacers this was the value of Myles one year ago:
      The Indiana Pacers offered the Boston Celtics Myles Turner, a first-round pick and a rotation player for Gordon Hayward last week, a source with knowledge of the negotiations told IndyStar.
      So one year after and he’s some kind of all star (although he isn’t) that’s valued at more than ONE first round pick. Amazing.

    59. For me, Turner over Mitch/Noel doesn’t move the needle a whole lot, and that’s assuming he’s really a 40% 3 point shooter. Turner shooting 3s is just going to replace one of our other perimeter players shooting 3s-he doesn’t create his own shot. I guess having a stretch center could get Randle more attempts at the rim, which would help.

    60. I think there’s value in kemba coming off the bench…he can light it up at times…

    61. Big Chiefin’ as Phatt Geo:
      I think there’s value in kemba coming off the bench…he can light it up at times…

      per King Solomon..err..I mean Thibs…he is a starter only…he is not capable of shooting a bball if he doesn’t start the game…

    62. So one year after and he’s some kind of all star (although he isn’t) that’s valued at more than ONE first round pick. Amazing.

      I mean, the inclusion of Hayward in this offer makes the comparison nearly useless for our purposes. We won’t be sending back a borderline all-star.

      Again, I have no idea if it will take three firsts, but you have to engage with the actual quality of the firsts. If we’re trading future assets for Turner, I would hope we regard our own first as middling at best. Dallas’ 2023 pick would all of the sudden look fairly intriguing…if it wasn’t top-10 protected. No one gives a shit about the Charlotte boondoggle pick, it’s a throw-in.

      Comparisons to other trades always have limited utility due to differing contexts, but I do think it’s worth noting Marcus Morris on an expiring deal netted us a late first, a second so good it was pretty much another late first, some guy named Issuf Sanon, and a hilarious pick swap. Does three firsts for Turner, who is better than Morris and signed for another season, sound so insane in light of that?

      This is all different if you assume we’re including one of IQ/Obi/RJ, but to my knowledge no one has proposed doing so. So yeah, 3 middling firsts and Mitch sounds about right to me.

      Hubert, other teams may not be as down on Mitch as you are. He’s expiring but there is a very real possibility that whoever signs his next contract could be getting Mitch right when he figures it out. And right now he’s probably not commanding more than 10 million a year.

      If you think he’s not commanding more than $10M a year as a UFA you’re pretty much conceding he’s not a great trade asset.

    63. thenoblefacehumper: I would hope we regard our own first as middling at best.

      Well, this might be where we’re thinking differently. What matters is what the other team thinks of our picks, and i think after so many years of lolKnicks, they value our picks very high. They think we’re always one inch away of a turmoil and a very good pick. And i don’t know if they’re wrong in their thinking. I hope they’re wrong, to know is a different thing.

    64. Not to re-litigate the 19th pick again, but if the Hornets go for Myles they’ll probably need to lift the protections.

      The Hornets owe their 2022 first-round pick with protections through 2025 to the New York Knicks, limiting their ability to send a first to the Pacers.

    65. cybersoze:
      Not to re-litigate the 19th pick again, but if the Hornets go for Myles they’ll probably need to lift the protections.

      The year is 2077. Knickerblogger Dot Net is still arguing about the trade of the 19th pick in the 2021 NBA Draft. And about Frank.

    66. cybersoze:
      I think DRed and Z-Man meant overpaying when making the trade, meaning offer too much assets for him.

      Exactly, in fct I was kinda saying the opposite,.,that if he were signed for longer at that money for longer I’d give up more for him…

    67. I’m admittedly not an expert on the Win Curve, but it would seem that trading assets for a guy who is 1.5 years from a larger UFA deal and who has a not insignificant injury history would not be aligned with our current position…

    68. My new starting center is hurt?
      Let me start the player that just sit out 9 straight games…

      Let’s Go Road Warriors Knicks!

    69. Knicks are +5

      Those dudes in Vegas are gonna get a lot of action on the Knicks, which makes me a little nervous.

    70. gonna look a little closer at brogdon’s play tonight, if theere’s a chance to grab a starting point guard, I’m interested…

    71. This thread about how, in an auction with 4-5 other teams,
      we’ll fleece the Pacers giving them an expiring contract (that they can sign in free agency next summer without trading for him), out biggest lottery bust of the decade and a player we don’t want anymore because our coach think he’s unplayable (but you have to pay him), is very very funny!

      The right way for them to start the rebuild…

      :-)

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