Knicks Morning News (2021.10.29)

  • #SportsReport: 76ers beat the Pistons; the Knicks top the Bulls – WAMC
    [www.wamc.org] — Friday, October 29, 2021 6:30:00 AM

    #SportsReport: 76ers beat the Pistons; the Knicks top the Bulls  WAMC

  • Walker, Knicks hang on, deal Bulls first loss 104-103 – Gettysburg Times
    [www.gettysburgtimes.com] — Friday, October 29, 2021 5:12:10 AM

    Walker, Knicks hang on, deal Bulls first loss 104-103  Gettysburg Times

  • Knicks news: RJ Barrett fanboys over DeMar DeRozan after stopping him – ClutchPoints
    [clutchpoints.com] — Friday, October 29, 2021 12:46:20 AM

    Knicks news: RJ Barrett fanboys over DeMar DeRozan after stopping him  ClutchPoints

  • How impressive have Leon Rose and Tom Thibodeau been for the Knicks? | What Are The Odds? – Yahoo Sports
    [sports.yahoo.com] — Friday, October 29, 2021 12:00:00 AM

    How impressive have Leon Rose and Tom Thibodeau been for the Knicks? | What Are The Odds?  Yahoo Sports

  • Discussion: Are the Knicks for real? – New York Post
    [nypost.com] — Thursday, October 28, 2021 11:45:00 PM

    Discussion: Are the Knicks for real?  New York Post

  • New York Knicks vs Chicago Bulls ? Full Game Highlights | October 28, 2021 | 2021-22 NBA Season – Oakland News Now
    [oaklandnewsnow.com] — Thursday, October 28, 2021 10:44:32 PM

    New York Knicks vs Chicago Bulls ? Full Game Highlights | October 28, 2021 | 2021-22 NBA Season  Oakland News Now

  • How to Watch New York Knicks vs. Chicago Bulls: Live Stream, TV Channel, Start Time – Sports Illustrated
    [www.si.com] — Thursday, October 28, 2021 7:00:00 PM

    How to Watch New York Knicks vs. Chicago Bulls: Live Stream, TV Channel, Start Time  Sports Illustrated

  • Knicks’ Derrick Rose on NBA Future: ‘I’m Going to Try to Tom Brady This Thing’ – Bleacher Report
    [bleacherreport.com] — Thursday, October 28, 2021 3:55:12 PM

    Knicks’ Derrick Rose on NBA Future: ‘I’m Going to Try to Tom Brady This Thing’  Bleacher Report

  • NY Knicks: Mitchell Robinson among the NBA’s best in this category – Daily Knicks
    [dailyknicks.com] — Thursday, October 28, 2021 2:18:00 PM

    NY Knicks: Mitchell Robinson among the NBA’s best in this category  Daily Knicks

  • NBA Best Bets: Basketball Picks, Predictions, Odds to Consider on DraftKings Sportsbook for October 28 – DraftKings Nation
    [dknation.draftkings.com] — Thursday, October 28, 2021 12:55:45 PM

    NBA Best Bets: Basketball Picks, Predictions, Odds to Consider on DraftKings Sportsbook for October 28  DraftKings Nation

  • Why the Knicks’ Hot Start Is Sustainable – The Ringer
    [www.theringer.com] — Thursday, October 28, 2021 12:01:40 PM

    Why the Knicks’ Hot Start Is Sustainable  The Ringer

  • Behind the Knicks’ Drastic Change That Has New York Rising in East – Sports Illustrated
    [www.si.com] — Thursday, October 28, 2021 11:36:55 AM

    Behind the Knicks’ Drastic Change That Has New York Rising in East  Sports IllustratedRJ Barrett’s defensive gem fuels Knicks’ surge to the top of the East  Empire Sports MediaKnicks Survive Late Collapse to Improve to 4-1, Hand Bulls 1st Loss of Season  Bleacher ReportKnicks survive Bulls’ comeback try for hard-fought road win  New York Post NY Knicks: 2 Spooky trade targets that just might work  Daily Knicks

  • Bulls vs. Knicks: Prediction, point spread, odds, over/under, betting picks – Lonzo Wire
    [lonzowire.usatoday.com] — Thursday, October 28, 2021 10:54:00 AM

    Bulls vs. Knicks: Prediction, point spread, odds, over/under, betting picks  Lonzo Wire

  • Knicks vs. Bulls odds, line, spread: 2021 NBA picks, Oct. 28 predictions from proven computer model – CBS Sports
    [www.cbssports.com] — Thursday, October 28, 2021 10:43:36 AM

    Knicks vs. Bulls odds, line, spread: 2021 NBA picks, Oct. 28 predictions from proven computer model  CBS Sports

  • The many sins of Carmelo Anthony – Posting and Toasting
    [www.postingandtoasting.com] — Thursday, October 28, 2021 9:06:51 AM

    The many sins of Carmelo Anthony  Posting and Toasting

  • Knicks squander chances to showcase Kevin Knox for trade – New York Post
    [nypost.com] — Thursday, October 28, 2021 8:11:15 AM

    Knicks squander chances to showcase Kevin Knox for trade  New York Post

  • New York Knicks: Why they should use RJ Barrett as a cutter – Hoops Habit
    [hoopshabit.com] — Thursday, October 28, 2021 8:00:00 AM

    New York Knicks: Why they should use RJ Barrett as a cutter  Hoops Habit

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    118 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2021.10.29)”

    1. Can someone please explain the “Bing Bong” joke to me? I feel like I missed like half a thread and now I’m completely on the outside

    2. Watched this morning and thank heaven I was able to use the forward button and skip the nail-biting timeouts and stoppages and reduce the stress (but I went mad at the end).

      A win is a win is a win. This was a well very played game for the most part of 46 minutes and a nightmare in the last 2…
      I hope this is another lesson learned, our “prevent offense” was terrible (and it’s not the first time), we reverted to Iso-Randle in the clutch and we barely escaped a devestating loss.

      But this team has so much potential is scary. It’s only the fifth game, I’ll give the starters another 15-20 to really gel and learn each other strenghts and weaknesses.

      Thibs post game comment on perspective are spot on, he knows he has something good in his hands, they need work but man, if they get there the League has better watch out.

      And kudos to everyone that contributed to the game thread, it had all the feelings of the game.

      P.S.
      I’m another one that don’t get the Bing Bong” joke? What I’m missing?

    3. Shorter version: it’s a line someone says at the 0:22 mark in this video taken outside MSG after the opening night win. I don’t know why “bing bong” went viral over the various other bits of tomfoolery in the video, but here we are. BING BONG.

    4. I know Thibs has to manage egos and expectations but I really would rather have Rose in the closing lineup rather than Kemba. Probably better defensively, and if you need an iso bucket in a big spot, I’d definitely rather have Rose than Kemba at this point in their careers.

      (that said, Caruso really is a good defender, and Kemba has shown a bit more bounce the last couple games – got all the way to the rim a few times this game).

      I am also a little sad we’ve seen so little of the Obi/Randle front court. With Vucevic, it seems like that would be the ideal time to do it – we’re doubling the post anyway. But make Vuc guard out in open space.

    5. Can we all promise that next time RJ has a rough game we won’t talk about trading him straight up for Deandre Hunter or how he’s a “distant third” in a redraft to Zion and Ja?

      Thank you.

    6. Alan:
      Shorter version: it’s a line someone says at the 0:22 mark in this video taken outside MSG after the opening night win. I don’t know why “bing bong” went viral over the various other bits of tomfoolery in the video, but here we are. BING BONG.

      Just so you people know where I am in my life stages, I honestly thought the bing bong thing was somehow related to that Pixar movie with the pink elephant thing

    7. My grades:

      Randle C-
      Just when I was ready to chalk this one as a great improvement he let his evil twin take control of his brain, tried to be the hero again and made a string of dumb plays (as Johnlocke wrote the missed putback instead of rebounding and dribbling was the worst), not counting the missed FT at the end.
      Still he took “only” 11 shots, was a beast on the boards (16 reb) had flashes of great passing on double teams (9 ast) and defended mostly well, with some glitches. I hope he’ll learn.

      Robinson C
      Vuc took him to school a couple of times and stinged with his outside shooting but Mitch did some very important things and was solid all around. Free throws and the ability to scare the shit out of us in every game are still a problem tho.

      Walker B
      5-6 on threes, steady work and a developing chemistry with Mitch. If he’s not enough for you remember who started at PG all of last year…

      Fournier C-
      Cool hands but he has his moments and his ability to create shots is a boon. I expect a rebound in New Orleans.

      Barrett B
      That’s the RJ we love, assertive, aggressive and focused (only 1 TO). Now if only he can get to the rim with the same ferocity every time…

      Toppin C
      A bit limited when not running but he had a couple of good moves and a beautiful assist. Still on the rise.

      Taj Gibson B
      The usual Taj, 4 very important Oreb, solid defense (3 BLK), no frills. A rock.

      Rose C
      Maybe a bit emotional? A good start and some moments but he’s had better games. The bench mob goes where he leads them…

      Burks D
      A good start and then went cold and nearly throw out the game at the end. I’m still waiting for one of his patented offensive outburst.

      Quickley F
      A disaster. He’s shooting 9-30 and still after every made basket he does his stupid gesturing. The kid needs to sit a couple of games, times to see what Q-Dot and Deuce can give us.

    8. Alan:
      Shorter version: it’s a line someone says at the 0:22 mark in this video taken outside MSG after the opening night win. I don’t know why “bing bong” went viral over the various other bits of tomfoolery in the video, but here we are. BING BONG.

      One more detail. It (apparently) originated as a mimic of the sound made by subway doors closing.

    9. Frank, I still also immediately think of Bing Bong from Inside Out when I see or hear the phrase. Also:

      @Kickpuncher
      Replying to @sepinwall

      They had an extended discussion of Dave Bing on the broadcast and never referenced “bing-bong”; I’ve never had a more stark reminder that Twitter is not the real world.

    10. Alan:
      Frank, I still also immediately think of Bing Bong from Inside Out when I see or hear the phrase. Also:

      Me too, but blocking that part out b/c … doesn’t Bing Bong … die?

    11. Me too, but blocking that part out b/c … doesn’t Bing Bong … die?

      Oh, big time. But it’s a noble sacrifice to save Riley. Maybe the most tear-jerking moment in any Pixar film.

    12. I remember, but … it’s almost too Knicksy to take.

      EDIT: Perhaps Knicksy is the wrong word, but I don’t want that pain ;-)

    13. Oh man I forgot about poor Bing Bong!

      Re Quickley – honestly he has been the only really disappointing thing about this season so far. It’s prob just a slump but he hasn’t been able to shoot since summer league. I wonder whether he did something with his shot?

    14. The Wizards are feisty and annoying, with Phila, Boston and Brooklyn a bit in disarray they can surprise many pundits. Their choice of depth over star branding is paying off.

      Also, in this first few games Trae Young FTs per game are halved compared to last season (4.4 vs 8.7), Harden has gone from 7.3 to 3.0, Quickley from 2.7 to 1.0.

      The new rules are working and, at least for me, the watching experience is better.

    15. Hey Max thanks for the grades, I love it.

      But man are you hard to please. A big early season win over a hot team on the road and nobody even sniffs an A?

    16. Ingmarrrr:
      Hey Max thanks for the grades, I love it.

      But man are you hard to please. A big early seasonwin over a hot team on the road and nobody even sniffs an A?

      Honestly I had a couple of “A”… before the final meltdown :-)

      Losing that game would have been inexcusable and we let the last shot to the other team so…

    17. Yeah, Bruno, apparently that guy pops up in a lot of videos saying bing bong. It just took off this time.

    18. Re: closing games, I think the roster as a whole on offense is much deeper and more versatile than it was last year. The problem is that DRose is still the only guy on the team who can consistently get to the rim with the ball in his hands against late-game defenses. Randle, for all the other things he’s great at, is not good at generating easy buckets for himself, especially when defenses are ratcheted up against him in the closing minutes. Ideally, though, we have to find ways to keep the ball movement going, because that’s our biggest strength on offense. It felt like we spent the last several minutes of the game just trying to bleed clock, in ways that went against those strengths. Thibs is not blind and he’s certainly not dumb, so I’m sure he’s going to work on this. I’ll be interested to see what he tries, and how effective it is. We’ve played five games, and three of them have ended with us choking away leads that should have been safe. We just happened to win two of those.

    19. 2nd game this season where RJ has held a Star Wing below their usual production(3rd if you count Beal in preseason).

    20. Another big test for Mitch..didn’t do as well as he did against Embiid though. Still..I like his activity and physicality out there. That is exactly what we need from him, but with less fouling- at least until Noel is back. Once he’s back we can worry less about Mitch and fouls. He still needs to clean it up though. Remember how no one could post Mase up? That’s exactly what I’m seeing from Mitch. He’s not giving up any ground to post players..shit is ridiculously awesome. Next up- Valanciunas. Another big test. Mitch survives this week and I will probably demand the Knicks give this man his bag LOL

    21. I was logging on to say the same thing.

      Damn Max, would have hated to have you as my professor in college. Bulls are undefeated, most likely a playoff team and we won on the road and no one even sniffs an A? Do you only hand them out if we beat the Bucks by 20?

      RJ was great last night. Full stop. Walker was pretty damn good too.

      Also, I said this yesterday but the NBA NEEDS The Knicks Bulls rivalry. The energy last night in that arena was electric. I know some of that is Thibs, Rose and Taj being back but they were undefeated, we are clearly one of the better teams in the NBA and it felt like the most important Bulls Knicks game since the 90s. Knowing we get to face them 3 more times in the regular season and maybe meet them in the playoffs has me pumped.

      And I’m just gonna say it. Why can’t we win a title this year? I mean, I’m not saying its going to happen or that its even likely to happen. But I look at the NBA this season and I do not see some super elite team that is a cut above everyone else. The Bucks deserve the respect as the reigning champs. The Nets are still gonna be really tough to beat. Atlanta is going to be hard. But I think we are right up there with those 3 teams and our depth is really really good this year. And in the West who are the clear cut favs? Lakers are old. CLips are hobbled Warriors have steph but Dray and Klay are not who they used to be. Utah and Denver are good but not really any better than in previous years. Suns are gonna be good again. But to me there aren’t any teams that I would say “oh yeah, they definitely are gonna win it all this year.”

    22. kevin5318:
      2nd game this season where RJ has held a Star Wing belowtheir usual production(3rd if you count Beal in preseason).

      From Wasserman
      Through 5 games, RJ Barrett’s 31.3 defensive FG% is the best/lowest among NBA wings who defend at least 12 shots per game.

      (PJ’s Tucker’s 29.3 DFG% is the best for wings who defend 10+ shots)

      Yeah yeah, super small sample size, but not bad for a guy who had to defend Tatum, LaVine and DeRozan already.

    23. Randle got stripped a few times by Ball in the fourth quarter. It didn’t lead to a turnover every time but it did make it pretty clear why having your 250 PF run the offense in crunch time has some issues.

      Whatever, I am not here to gripe. We won. We have a funny catchphrase we haven’t gotten tired of yet. The team is good and not ancient. Upper management is not incompetent.

      I literally haven’t been this happy to be a Knicks fan in 20 years. It’s a nice feeling and I am going to wallow in it until getting stuffed back into the dumpster by consecutive losses to the Pels and Raptors.

      Good cap Max! No grade inflation in Italy apparently.

    24. I do think one caveat to yesterday’s game is that the Bulls might not really be good after all, their four wins came against the Pistons (2x), the Pelicans without Zion and a Raptors team without Siakam in a close game. They’re incredibly shallow, to the point where they really only have about 5 NBA players on their roster and the fit of those players together is somewhat questionable still. They might be one LaVine or Vucevic injury away from collapse.

      That’s not to say the win wasn’t great, they were hot and it was a tough away game with an electric crowd etc, so still a great win… but I think beating Philly and Boston was still more impressive and more relevant to eventual playoff seeding.

    25. Frank: Just so you people know where I am in my life stages, I honestly thought the bing bong thing was somehow related to that Pixar movie with the pink elephant thing

      OMG me too! I was trying to figure out how “Inside Out” was related to the Knicks in some way…. ?

    26. Text from my sister this morning: “why is everyone saying bing bong?”

      On some level I understand thinking we might be better off with Hunter in a re-draft. He’s probably more productive right this second and a bird in the hand, etc. I think that’s pretty shortsighted though. RJ’s maturity and demeanor obscure both how young he is and how rare it is for someone his age to put up half-decent efficiency stats at his usage and position while also being a big help on defense.

      I’m sticking with him at 3 in a re-draft. However I caught some of the Memphis game and…it’s a distant 3.

    27. I’m sticking with him at 3 in a re-draft. However I caught some of the Memphis game and…it’s a distant 3.

      Yeah, RJ’s still behind the other two. The more crucial question is whether Zion’s health, conditioning, and all-around game issues have now put him behind Ja.

    28. Bruno Almeida: From Wasserman
      Through 5 games, RJ Barrett’s 31.3 defensive FG% is the best/lowest among NBA wings who defend at least 12 shots per game.

      (PJ’s Tucker’s 29.3 DFG% is the best for wings who defend 10+ shots)

      Yeah yeah, super small sample size, but not bad for a guy who had to defend Tatum, LaVine and DeRozan already.

      I don’t think we (or the sports media) are giving RJ enough credit for his strong D this year. D-mar above also mentioned it as well as kevin5813

    29. swiftandabundant:
      I was logging on to say the same thing.

      Damn Max, would have hated to have you as my professor in college. Bulls are undefeated, most likely a playoff team and we won on the road and no one even sniffs an A? Do you only hand them out if we beat the Bucks by 20?

      Two wins against the Cade-less and winless Pistons, one against the Pelicans sans Zion and one in Toronto where the Raptors had the shot to tie the game at the end.
      Let’s say I’m not so impressed by the Bulls start as many are…

      :-)

    30. I would agree that the Bulls seem like a mismatched team that are worse than their record indicates(coming into last nights game). They really have only 5-6 good players and a bunch of nobodies to fill out the roster. Their poor rebounding, depth and interior defense will kill them over the course of the season

    31. What did people think of Patrick Williams? It was funny to watch Clyde bluntly call him a bust, only for Williams to get a few nifty buckets almost immediately afterwards. Chicago’s ceiling rests almost entirely on him, since the other starters are what they are and the Bulls traded away a lot of future draft picks for Vuc, Lonzo, and DeMar.

    32. I mean, the way a team becomes a playoff team is by beating the non-playoff teams and so far the bulls have done that. I’m not saying their contenders, but I think they have a very strong starting 5 and are playoff material. Beating them on the road is a good win. Period. And you know they were hyped to try and beat us because we are a test for them as we are now clearly a playoff caliber team.

    33. We need a closer.

      Right now our best closer is Rose. I don’t think we can count on him to bring his “A” game all the time. He’s got too much mileage on those legs. We have the excess picks to make another move, but we’d have to give up someone good besides the picks to get that done. I’m not sure I want to do that. I’m still holding out hope RJ can become that player over the next few years. He’s definitely not afraid of the role. He just doesn’t have a diverse enough skill set or the experience to be that player yet. But he’s still very young and still improving.

      Edit: I agree with Alan above

    34. Alan:
      What did people think of Patrick Williams? It was funny to watch Clyde bluntly call him a bust, only for Williams to get a few nifty buckets almost immediately afterwards. Chicago’s ceiling rests almost entirely on him, since the other starters are what they are and the Bulls traded away a lot of future draft picks for Vuc, Lonzo, and DeMar.

      I don’t know… He had his moments last season, but his numbers this year are lower.
      6’7 215 Power Forward? 1 pound heavier than RJ? Needs a consistent shot from outside to become something, plus the new Bulls put him a bit at the margin on offense.
      But Clyde’s comment’s a bit harsh…

      Never forget the Bulls gave away Gafford (now injured alas)…

    35. I agree Clyde was being harsh. In general, he’s not super plugged into other teams, especially less established players. I don’t love Clyde on the broadcasts for his analysis so much as for his personality and verve. So I wasn’t taking the Williams comment seriously. It was just amusing to hear that and then have him retract it, like, three plays later.

    36. From Zach Lowe’s “10 Things”:

      “After five games, New York’s starting backcourt is 17-of-38 combined on pull-up 3s. Payton and Bullock hit nine all last season. “

    37. Owen: Randle got stripped a few times by Ball in the fourth quarter. It didn’t lead to a turnover every time but it did make it pretty clear why having your 250 PF run the offense in crunch time has some issues.

      Last night I was pissed off they almost blew the game, but that’s my issue with Randle. He’s a very good complimentary piece, but imo he’s the wrong guy to make the focal point of the offense down the stretch. He still dribbles into bad spots, his passing and shot selection decisions are too volatile, and his struggles under pressure may not just be random short term noise. He kind of belongs in the role RJ is in now where he’s playing off other players to get open looks and going to the hoop when he has a lot of room. I don’t want him handling the ball or isolating down the stretch. We aren’t going to get to the promised land on Randle’s back.

    38. my favorite player of the game yesterday was alec burks, who just beat to hell bulls’ players all game long…

      it was a joy to watch…unlike kemba – I like burks’s smile…it’s devilish as can be…

    39. I’m not sure how good the Bulls are now, but I see them as kind of where we were last year. They have some good veteran pieces, a couple of good young players, but they know they need to fill out the bench, get improvement from the young players and maybe upgrade somewhere to be a serious team. You don’t turn it around in one season.

    40. hi bidiong, really interesting point you brought up during the game:

      Deep teams are probably a market inefficiency right now with all the super team bullshit going on.

      I think you’re on to something there…although I think this strategy may falter after the regular season and first round of the playoffs…

    41. The very last way I would have thought the Knicks would be 4-1 after 5 games was to lose at home to Orlando.

      And the very last way I thought Golden State would lose their first game of the season was to score a total of 3 points in overtime.

      Thank God I do not gamble

    42. Silky was on tv and looking pretty fly for a white guy….

      Strat, I honestly don’t think anyone is disagreeing with you about Randle. We all know there is an issue there. So does Thibs. So does Julius.

      Geo, the buyout market is such these days that a good superteam can usually add some depth at the deadline where needed. But it’s going to be an issue for teams, no doubt.

      Talking about depth is tricky because the value comes in a few different ways: matchups, hedge against injury, freshness through the season. It’s not easy to quantify and evaluate though.

    43. Owen: Strat, I honestly don’t think anyone is disagreeing with you about Randle.

      Actually, me. I don’t disagree there’s a problem, but I’m not yet convinced he’s a #2. He had to be the hero last year, and we rode that horse right into the playoffs (and over a cliff, but I think that cliff was there regardless of the horse being ridden). The problem is he needs to trust the now-good players around him more, and Thibs (or whoever is in charge of offensive game planning) needs to run end-of-game plays where Randle is the decoy or knows to pass out of the double rather than force things.

      I’m stubbornly expecting this to happen and think we’ll be pretty scary if/when it does.

    44. Agree with Strat that Randle is not an ideal #1 option on a serious contender. But – as things presently stand – he’s the best #1 option that this Knicks team has.

      Randle’s offensive skill set, while good, is certainly not as well rounded as that of Kemba or Rose. What makes him preferable as the team’s best #1 option right now is his superior durability. His seeming indestructibility allows Thibs to run the offense through him for 40 minutes every night. Given his shortcomings, there will be more than a few games where this strategy will make the fanbase tear its collective hair out. But at least Thibs won’t ever have to worry about him breaking down as he would were Kemba or Rose asked to do that much heavy lifting.

      Having said that, the coaches may want to game plan a way to keep the ball out of his hands whenever the game comes down to free throws at the end. A few more games like last night and Julius could develop a real complex about going to the line in those situations, if he hasn’t already.

    45. Deeefense: I don’t want him handling the ball or isolating down the stretch. We aren’t going to get to the promised land on Randle’s back.

        

      Yeah, they need to fix that before playoff time. (Randle’s TS% right now, yeah still early, is at .518, a number that positively screams “REGRESSION.” Luckily the replacement of Elf the Dreadful with competence has helped offset.)

      Weird season with the Wiz being 4-1 and the Hornets being 4-1 and the new rules. Seems still very much in flux, so I’m going to give it another 20 games or so to shake out. I actually had the same thought as Swift this morning — is it actually possible the Knicks could win the title? But I don’t think it is, right now. With health, though, it would be shocking if they didn’t go over the 43.

    46. ***Can someone please explain the “Bing Bong” joke to me?***

      I have now watched the video, and read the news story, and I still don’t understand.

      But, regardless, whatever it means and however it came about, I feel like our own poster bidiong was way ahead of his time here with his handle. It’s as if he looked into the future to see what the rallying cry of the resurgent Knicks would be, but forgot to put on his glasses.

    47. Pat Williams could definitely become a very good player but it feels feels like the hype train left a little early. Still more flashes than production right now and it’s a bit hard to buy that the Bulls would take him at 4 in a re-draft.

      Agree with Strat that Randle is not an ideal #1 option on a serious contender.

      I don’t think there’s a single person on this board, which spans the pessimist-optimist spectrum quite broadly, who thinks Randle is a viable #1 option on a contender.

    48. Donnie Walsh: I have now watched the video, and read the news story, and I still don’t understand.

      It’s not a joke. It’s a meme. It’s like when that kid said, “I can’t believe you’ve done this,” after his friend slapped his face. Or when that kid scolded his little brother for biting his finger. Or like eight billion other snippets of language or culture that delight for a vague (but often insufferably explicable via thinkpiece) reason.

      “Bing bong” refers to the NYC subway sound. But it’s also shouted during a video of NYCers losing their minds over an opening night win. In the midst of asking Kevin Durant for his regrets, disparaging Trae Young and other expressions of municipal love, some guy half-yells, “Bing bong,” and captures the spirit of a whole tri-state area.

      There’s not much more to it than that. Bing bong. It is the stuff of love.

    49. thenoblefacehumper: Agree with Strat that Randle is not an ideal #1 option on a serious contender.

      I don’t think there’s a single person on this board, which spans the pessimist-optimist spectrum quite broadly, who thinks Randle is a viable #1 option on a contender.

      Mostly, I just wanted to type the phrase, “Agree with Strat.”

      It’s said so infrequently around here and it seemed a righteous thing to do on a morning when we’re all imbued with feelings of neighborly love following a win.

    50. 8 so so minutes for Rokas in Barca’s first loss in EuroLeague yesterday (4 pts, 1 reb, 1 ast, 2 to).

    51. I’m partial to the guy screaming “we had De Blasio, we had Cuomo, it was rough shit, but we have the Knicks!”, a perfect little nugget of sports impact on our collective moods.

      On Patrick Williams, I’m not impressed at all. He has even decent stats, but he looks so passive and unimpactful on the game, very tentative. He has a lot of potential but now he’s on a team where he’s firmly the 5th option and won’t touch the ball at all in most possessions, so I don’t know. Not a bust still but he hasn’t distinguished himself on anything yet.

    52. thenoblefacehumper: I don’t think there’s a single person on this board, which spans the pessimist-optimist spectrum quite broadly, who thinks Randle is a viable #1 option on a contender.

      Then he needs to be moved for one before playoff time. The race is wide-open and the Knicks need to pounce.

    53. Jalen Suggs will not continue to be this bad, but man, he has been bad. Mobley and Barnes going 3 and 4 just before him, ouch.

    54. I will just drop this here….

      Through 5 games, RJ Barrett's 31.3 defensive FG% is the best/lowest among NBA wings who defend at least 12 shots per game. (PJ's Tucker's 29.3 DFG% is the best for wings who defend 10 shots)— Jonathan Wasserman (@NBADraftWass) October 29, 2021

    55. That is an interesting theory that deep teams are a market inefficiency right now bc of super teams. Its like these Knicks are a roster full of guys who would be the 3rd or 4th option on a good playoff team but we have like 8 of those dudes (ok, maybe not that many but we have a lot).

      It could cause problems in the playoffs for sure with shortened rotations. But another angle is that it could provid thibs with matchup options if something isn’t working. And those teams that are superstar heavy (brooklyn) can go down if one of them gets injured. Right now if one of our starters got hurt in the playoffs, our bench pieces could pick up the slack without too much of a fall off.

      Regardless, I love this team and our potential. We’re gonna rack up regular season wins this year and THAT IS FUN TO WATCH!!!

    56. swiftandabundant: these Knicks are a roster full of guys who would be the 3rd or 4th option on a good playoff team but we have like 8 of those dudes (ok, maybe not that many but we have a lot).

      Interesting brain game — Nets 3, 4, and 5 scorers are Mills, Harris, and Aldridge. Who on the Knicks would you trade straight-up for one of them, salaries not considered?

      (FYI, right now our 3-4-5 in pts are Walker, Rose, and Barrett. But would you trade even Obi straight up for Aldridge?)

    57. Obviously still very early and lots of adjustments to be made, but Harden and Trae’s relatively slow (scoring) starts are really interesting. A lot of what made them so great offensively was that not only did they draw lots of BS fouls and associated free throws, but that defenders literally had to play with their hands tied behind their backs to even have a chance of avoiding those BS fouls. Now that they can play straight up defense, they can come around the pick a little tighter, backdoor contest more closely, and just use their bodies more.

      Trae is still having a great year (averaging 24/10 is not so bad), but his FT rate is half his career rate, and his TS is down from ~59 the last two years to 53.7.

      Early still.

    58. Then he needs to be moved for one before playoff time. The race is wide-open and the Knicks need to pounce.

      I definitely do not agree with this. I mean in the event that a legitimate #1 option on a contender becomes available between now and then deadline, the Knicks will try to get that guy, as will 20+ other teams. Sure, Randle could. be a part of those conversations. He could also not. It’s not like he can’t be productive in a reduced role–his best season before last year was on a team Anthony Davis, and in their 1057 shared minutes the team had a +4.8 net rating (-1.3 overall).

      More importantly, I’m not feeling the urgency you describe. We’ve got, like, a 0.3% chance at a title this year at best. Why do something reckless in pursuit of increasing that to a solid 1%?

      The Unsung Hero

      Alright we need some reasonable rules and regulations here. Look man, feel free to take your victory lap if Frank Ntilikina ever has a good NBA game. Like 20 points, 10 assists, that kind of thing.

      We need to move past the days of squinting at 6 point, 6 FGA performances and talking about how they prove he’s just 4-5 seasons away from being a solid 11th man though. We are talking about a deep bench player for the Dallas Mavericks. Speaking of them:

      The Mavs this season:-30 with Porzingis on the floor+27 without Porzingis on the floorThey have won 3 straight (tonight without KP). pic.twitter.com/lqtpmjlA0u— StatMuse (@statmuse) October 29, 2021

      Out again tonight. Maybe next season will be the 5th annual “first fully healthy season he’s had.”

    59. Wow,

      Patrick Williams’ wrist injury is bad, he’ll miss all the regular season.

      He fell badly on Mitch’s unintentional flagrant foul…

    60. Oof, Patrick Williams out for the rest of the season. Dislocated his wrist on the Mitch flagrant play it seems. Pretty wild he’s already ruled out this early on, don’t think I’ve ever seen that with a non-lower half injury.

      Mitchell Robinson will not be popular in the city of Chicago but I really didn’t see much of any malice on the play. Shit happens.

    61. Harden’s performance so far strikes me as the quintessential correlation != causation. If you watch him, it’s obvious that he is out of game sync. His passes are not crisp, he shooting is off. He is not functioning well as the ball hander in P&Rs. All the things he was doing as a true PG last year, which did not really depend on getting fouled, are not working. He needs to get in game shape. The foul rule is not the issue here. I know it’s fun to think that his superpower was the ability to draw fouls, given how unpleasant it is aesthetically, but he will be fine.

      Trae’s issues are a bit more pronounced in my view.

    62. swiftandabundant: And I’m just gonna say it. Why can’t we win a title this year? I mean, I’m not saying its going to happen or that its even likely to happen. But I look at the NBA this season and I do not see some super elite team that is a cut above everyone else.

      This. And don’t trade Randle. He’ll get there.

    63. OK if certain people are going to congratulate themselves every time Frank Ntilikina has a 13 minute, 2-6 FGA performance, that leaves me no other choice than to point out every time Frenchy puts up a DNP-CD, gets on the floor only for garbage time, or plays a bunch of minutes and puts up a 0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0 stat line.

      Sorry to have to do this, everybody, but it needs to be done.

    64. The league does seem pretty wide open this year outside of probably Milwaukee being the only tier 1 team. A lot of playoff success will be dependent on whos healthy come playoff time.

    65. Even if what Harden & Trae didn’t appear to depend on getting fouled, it affects how closely and vigorously you can defend them. If IQ can draw a foul every time a defender is within 5ft of him, then IQ has an open jumper every time down the court. If defenders know they won’t auto-foul within 5ft of IQ they will take away those open jumpers. Suddenly IQs 3p% drops even if the connection with foul rules isn’t obvious.

    66. The Pat Williams news is a huge blow to the Bulls. He was one of their only capable defenders on the team and, as evident last night, Bulls have their issues on that end.

      It’s one thing to bring up trading Randle when the team is struggling, it’s another when Knicks are 4-1 playing solid basketball. Hey I’m no fan on iso-Randle either and he still struggles with his handle at times, but like many of said on this board, dude is a warrior and competes every night. It’s like people don’t think he’ll improve or at least TRY to improve in the aspects of his game he’s currently struggling with. As last year showed he can take a next step. And as long as he contributes in other areas, I’m rooting for him.

    67. The Bulls offense will take time to gel, they haven’t been great offensively yet but will certainly get there. Remember the Heatles struggled early on before winning multiple championships. The Bulls aren’t that good, but it takes time.

      Hopefully it takes time for the Knicks too and this is just the start of even better offense to come.

    68. by the way Julius has played terribly so far, and we should totally trade him, yet is averaging 23/12/7, has a WS/48 0.168 (better than last year). Literally every stat that is not scoring is better — better ORB, DRB, AST%, TOV%, STL%, BLK%.

      Or maybe we should just let things play out a little.

    69. I mean Randle last night had 16 boards and 9 assists. Even if he’s not scoring great on a given night, he is still a focus for the other team’s defense except now he has Kemba and Fournier to kick it out to. Randle is fine.

    70. Pat Williams being out is a huge problem for the Bulls. They’re in the tax I think, have no tradeable draft picks to speak of, already had a shallow team, and the 4 was their weakest position even with Williams. Derozan better get used to playing a lot of 4 (this might not be a bad thing for them – played 69% of his minutes last year as a PF per B-R). But against jumbo wings this will be a problem.

    71. Donnie Walsh: I have now watched the video, and read the news story, and I still don’t understand.

      Well the onomatopoeia is easier to tweet than whatever the guy immediately before him said

    72. It could cause problems in the playoffs for sure with shortened rotations. But another angle is that it could provid thibs with matchup options if something isn’t working.

      good answer swift…

      the buyout market is such these days that a good superteam can usually add some depth at the deadline where needed. But it’s going to be an issue for teams, no doubt.

      this has been true for at least a while now, it certainly does seem like whatever current rules are in effect definitely help with vets doing some ring chasing…

      in lieu of drafting well or attracting all-nba type talent in free agency, the signing a bunch of role players strategy may be effective to at least get to .500 with a possible chance to make the playoffs…

      the irony of all that being – we literally tried this strategy for years and years and still were terrible…

    73. If Thibs’ strategy is that our #1 option is “whoever’s hot each game” we may have a chance for big things even from this season.
      Selfless Teamball should be our #1 option and not a particular player.
      Passes during crunch time are difficult and iso is heavily used but i wouldn’t mind a more team oriented approach instead of a “give the ball to the highest paid player and pray”

    74. Frank Ntilikina becoming the hero of an nba game per article should be enough for a victory jump while a few months ago he was considered a future worker in the coal mines of Westphalia!
      Fair is Fair
      And Bing is Bong!

    75. Like, it would be weird and annoying if I posted about Dennis Smith Jr.’s 5-3-5, +8 game in Portland’s 20 point win over Memphis from Wednesday because I just couldn’t accept that I was very wrong about him in 2017.

    76. I should stop posting funny plus minus numbers but it was objectively hilarious that the delta between Frank and THJr was 47 points last night.

      I am still rooting for him to become a real player in the NBA. KP I continue to be happy I was right about.

    77. DSJ still playing in the league is weird indeed.
      But not annoying. At least not to me.
      It’s a nice message that life has ups and downs and that you can come back if you really want it.

    78. I was among the patriarchs on DSJ mocking but I’m always ready to eat my crow burgers whenever I’m wrong. It’s part of predicting sports. Never met anyone who was 100% correct…

    79. I like that Frank is making another fan base confused yet happy. I like Frank. I even miss him, in the same way that I miss the Mop-headed Hustle Bunny. Or the hamster I had when I was ten. Goofy end-of-the-bench players are enormously fun, if usually utterly futile, to root for. And argue about.

      I did have to check the author’s name to see if it was Strat. Could still be, although it’s also likely he was one of the commenters.

    80. Like, it would be weird and annoying if I posted about Dennis Smith Jr.’s 5-3-5, 8 game in Portland’s 20 point win over Memphis from Wednesday because I just couldn’t accept that I was very wrong about him in 2017.

      FULL STOP!!!!

      no way can you compare frank and – that other guy…no way…that other guy didn’t endure four years of some of the worst basketball in nba history while wearing our laundry…

      not so very long ago, knick-wise, frank ntilikina was the best hope and joy we had…

      shame shame shame to all you frank haters out there in the world ;P

    81. There was nothing gaudy about The French Prince’s stats last night. He finished the game with six points on 2-of-6 shooting from the field and four rebounds. He didn’t record a steal or a block. But Frank brought energy.

      can’t short sell energy…actually, you can sell energy short…

      He contained ball-handlers, used his length to be a pest, and capped off quality defensive possessions with strong rebounds.

      of course he did…

      I need to be honest with you guys. I lied to you earlier when I said Frank’s numbers weren’t gaudy. The man was 24 in his 14 minutes of action. If that isn’t gaudy, I don’t know what is.

      Obviously, plus/minus is a flawed stat. But sometimes it’s at least a little telling, and that’s the case with Frank’s plus/minus against San Antonio. The Mavs looked great when Frank was on the court.

      plus/minus is a bit of a joke in comparison to that which is most telling and data filled – the eye test…and yes, frank does look great…

      After the game, I asked Jalen Brunson what he thought about Frank and his contributions:

      “Frank is great,” Brunson said. “Frank did a great job coming off the bench and giving us that spark. He’s been in the league for a long time, and he’s seen a lot. He’s been in situations, so he’s not new to this. But to see what he did, coming into this team, and doing what he did tonight was special, and we applaud him for that.”

      That’s high praise from someone who’s a bench star in his own right.

      and, if you don’t know, well – now you know…

    82. geo: He contained ball-handlers, used his length to be a pest, and capped off quality defensive possessions with strong rebounds.

      of course he did…

      He does that as well as any wing in the Association and has for years.

    83. I don’t have a problem with Randle closing as long as he’s not forcing things.
      Clutch time demands Talent, Balls, Cold Blood and Luck.
      Coach should go with his best option in each game but if his best option is usually off in clutch time maybe he needs to rethink which his best clutch option is.

    84. If we’re going to go into prevent offense mode at the end of games then we need to have some quick set plays drawn up at the end of the possessions. Wasting 18 seconds and then giving the ball to Randle isn’t good enough. We deserved to lose last night’s game.

    85. been digging back in to the 70’s a lot for my music lately…doing some seals and croft and blood sweat and tears now…probably heading towards some james taylor soon…

    86. 70s here too but a bit more heavy shit!
      Listening to Deep Purple’s In Rock right now.
      Much Heavier than expected for 1970

    87. Fred Katz wrote a good notebook column about RJ’s defense, Kemba’s confidence in his knee, and the late game offensive woes. From the latter section:

      New York’s shot quality has diminished in crunch time. It happened on opening night against Boston, then in Sunday’s loss to Orlando, then again in Chicago. And the issue isn’t as simple as isolating too much. It’s that the Knicks are going one-on-one against the wrong guys.

      For three quarters, they fling the ball around the court admirably. They run guards around pindowns and dribble-handoffs. There’s motion. They incorporate one-on-one play (they have ended about 10 percent of their possessions with shots, passes or turnovers out of isolation so far this season, ninth-most in the NBA, according to Synergy Sports), but they do it often after forcing switches, then attacking weak links.

      Especially against Chicago, though, the Knicks squared up against primary defenders, which feeds into what the Bulls want when they have their stout guards, like Alex Caruso and Lonzo Ball, on the court.

    88. geo:
      been digging back in to the 70’s a lot for my music lately…doing some seals and croft and blood sweat and tears now…probably heading towards some james taylor soon…

      Stay away from the Dans, Geo — just don’t go there… (Croce and Fogelberg…)

    89. Trae is still having a great year (averaging 24/10 is not so bad), but his FT rate is half his career rate, and his TS is down from ~59 the last two years to 53.7.

      It occurs to me that if fouls are down league wide then TS% should be down league wide too.

    90. Knick fan not in NJ: It occurs to me that if fouls are down league wide then TS% should be down league wide too.

      Small sample blah blah blah, league TS% is .548 this year. Last year it was a very high .572.

      Early season shooting starts slow, but that’s a big gap

    91. Knick fan not in NJ:
      I think it could stay low.

      Would not surprise me, just wanted to throw it in there as a caveat. TS% has been creeping up every year for awhile. The fouling is definitely part of it.

    92. I will wait for Anchorage Man to write a perfect tweet about what’s going on.

      Pacers tied up with the Nets now. You hate to see it.

    93. ***That is an interesting theory that deep teams are a market inefficiency right now bc of super teams. Its like these Knicks are a roster full of guys who would be the 3rd or 4th option on a good playoff team but we have like 8 of those dudes***

      It’s an interesting suggestion. But I’ll believe it when I see it in the NBA. With one lone exception, every single NBA championship team in my lifetime had on it an all-time great player (and arguably the best player in the league at the time). The Pistons are really the only exception to that rule, and that came, largely, due to Shaq and Kobe being bored with battling other teams and battling each other instead.

      I believe in synergy and certain situations where the sum of a team is greater than its parts. It equates with memorable runs, but rarely championships, at least in the NBA. I don’t know other sports all that well. The only team I remember ever watching that won a championship while being greater than the sum of its parts was probably the 1996 Yankees, who were an assortment of rising stars and aging vets.

      But, who knows, maybe you are right. I do believe that durability (i.e. actually being on the court in the playoffs) is more important than peak superstar. And these Knicks have some very durable tent posts. But ultimately it will come down to rooting for other teams getting injured, which is less fun than rooting for your team to dominate, though equally satisfying, I’m sure, if it works out.

    94. Harden finished the game with 19 free throws and to be quite honest, the Pacers were really hacking him and giving up dumb fouls over and over. Can’t even blame the referees on this one.

    95. Watching the Dallas-Denver game. Frank Ntilikina leads Dallas (tied) in scoring at the end of the first quarter with 5 points.
      That’s all.

    96. geo:
      checking in occasionally on the mavs-nuggets…what no kp again?

      frank’s wearing 21 now…

      KP out with a back issue.

    97. well, frank’s arms are still really long…

      he’s out there on the court with brunson and doncic…man is he useless on offense…he literally does not move his body at all after he’s sent to go stand in the corner…

      he doesn’t mess stuff up, but, he’s not involved, at all – it’s like he should be playing another sport, tennis, cricket maybe…

      as my father would say – useless as tits on a wild boar…

      his defense looks okay, if he’s out there for defense he needs to put on some more weight to guard one through four…

      he’s continued to improve with reading passing lanes, still, he’s a step or so slow…

      it’s weird, when you watch him, it’s easy to see why he has these weird plus/minus numbers some games where he gets 10 or so minutes…he seems like an easy guy to play basketball with…just way too passive, way too often…

    98. Watched the replay of the Bulls game and I don’t think it’s fair to put the collapse on Randle. E4 missed 2 shots, Kemba missed an iso midrange, RJ missed a 3, Mitch had a boneheaded foul on DeRozan, and there were 2 lame attempts at inbounding the ball (which is on Thibs) one of them almost resulting in a TO. Even that missed layup in the end wasn’t the worse because Randle was all alone under the rim and had a cannot miss shot to put the Knicks up 8 with 45 seconds to go. So I dunno, it looks to me like the whole team became tentative, and then scared and erratic.

      But it’s true they don’t have a real closer, or last 2 minutes creativity. ISO Randle on Ball at the arc is the worse play imaginable and that’s clearly on Thibs.

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