Knicks Morning News (2021.10.17)

  • Knicks’ Mitchell Robinson still working way back into shape – New York Post
    [nypost.com] — Sunday, October 17, 2021 4:33:00 AM

    Knicks’ Mitchell Robinson still working way back into shape  New York Post Knicks preview: More offense, high expectations  NewsdayWhy NY Knicks will be Eastern Conference 3 seed in 2021-22 NBA playoffs  Yahoo SportsKnicks, Mitchell Robinson win preseason finale  New York Daily NewsKnicks News: Taj Gibson is the roadblock in front of Jericho Sims, but for good reason  Empire Sports MediaView Full Coverage on Google News

  • Hawks news: Trae Young should be hated by Sixers, Knicks – ClutchPoints
    [clutchpoints.com] — Saturday, October 16, 2021 7:42:00 PM

    Hawks news: Trae Young should be hated by Sixers, Knicks  ClutchPoints

  • Knicks Sign Luka ?amani? to Two-Way Contract – Knicks.com
    [www.nba.com] — Saturday, October 16, 2021 6:13:38 PM

    Knicks Sign Luka ?amani? to Two-Way Contract  Knicks.com

  • Knicks’ Evan Fournier off to concerning shooting start – New York Post
    [nypost.com] — Saturday, October 16, 2021 5:31:00 PM

    Knicks’ Evan Fournier off to concerning shooting start  New York Post

  • New York opens season at home against Boston – Kansas City Star
    [www.kansascity.com] — Saturday, October 16, 2021 1:12:30 PM

    New York opens season at home against Boston  Kansas City Star

  • Social Media Reacts To NY Knicks Julius Randle Hitting Pre-Season Game Winner – Awesemo.com
    [www.awesemo.com] — Saturday, October 16, 2021 12:57:27 PM

    Social Media Reacts To NY Knicks Julius Randle Hitting Pre-Season Game Winner  Awesemo.com

  • KNICKS 115, WIZARDS 113: “The Randle, but also Mitch, but also Grimes” Game – Posting and Toasting
    [www.postingandtoasting.com] — Saturday, October 16, 2021 9:13:05 AM

    KNICKS 115, WIZARDS 113: “The Randle, but also Mitch, but also Grimes” Game  Posting and Toasting

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    67 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2021.10.17)”

    1. “I think we found something, particularly with Quentin in there,’’ Thibodeau said. “I think he gives us another wing defender that is really good.”

    2. Alan:
      Anybody on the waiver wire y’all would rather have for the 15th spot than Wayne Selden?

      is sidney green available? seems like we’re bringing back a lot of local kids at the tail end of their careers..

    3. What I like is that for the first time in like forever, it seems like the FO is continually looking for guys who can help the team at the margins. Most of the time these guys never make an iota of difference, but if that guy’s out there, looks like the scouts and evaluators are going to do their best to find him.

    4. Alan:
      This is very cool: colorized and remastered footage of early 60s Wilt Chamberlain. Dude could shake and bake.

      LOL Alan did you post that just to trigger me?

      It’s still mindboggling to me that anyone who does their due diligence, or even just watches that 15-minute video, wouldn’t be convinced that Wilt is the greatest big of all time, if not greatest player period, or that he wouldn’t be just as dominant in today’s game. I mean, Joel Embiid is an MVP candidate and can hardly run or jump.

      The only other guy in that conversation is Kareem. I can’t even imagine how dominant he would be in today’s game. I give Wilt the edge because of his defense, rebounding and passing. Kareem was probably the more polished scorer, but as stated in that video, Wilt’s most devastating offensive weapon was the fade away shot, which doesn’t have the lore of the Sky Hook but was probably just as effective.

      I hope that something happens that re-establishes some big-man dominance in the league. Giannis did his thing last year in Wilt-like fashion, and it was beautiful for me to watch. Teams shooting 50 3’s a game? Not so much.

    5. cybersoze:
      Selden? Does that qualify as a incinerated roster spot? LOL

      Yeah, it would be great to pick up someone with upside, something like a change-of-pace PG for that spot. Seems like we have plenty of bigs and wings, and our backup PGs (IQ and Deuce) are not great at getting into the paint. I’d love to see a TJ McConnell-type player in that spot.

    6. Alan:
      This is very cool: colorized and remastered footage of early 60s Wilt Chamberlain. Dude could shake and bake.

      Those back to the basket, over the shoulder finger rolls are mind blowing. I’ve never seen anyone shoot like this.

    7. Ingmarrrr: Those back to the basket, over the shoulder finger rolls are mind blowing. I’ve never seen anyone shoot like this.

      It’s kind of weird that today’s bigs don’t emulate some of the most successful moves of the past…kareem skyhook, wilt fadeaway and finger roll, Moses butt-check baseline jumper, Hakeem dream shake… A guy like Porzingis with a skyhook could dominate, but he’d rather take 3’s and pretend he’s Kevin Durant or Anthony Davis.

    8. Z-man: LOL Alan did you post that just to trigger me?

      It’s still mindboggling to me that anyone who does their due diligence, or even just watches that 15-minute video,wouldn’t be convinced that Wilt is the greatest big of all time, if not greatest player period, or that he wouldn’t be just as dominant in today’s game. I mean, Joel Embiid is an MVP candidate and can hardly run or jump.

      The only other guy in that conversation is Kareem. I can’t even imagine how dominant he would be in today’s game. I give Wilt the edge because of his defense, rebounding and passing.Kareem was probably the more polished scorer, but as stated in that video, Wilt’s most devastating offensive weapon was the fade away shot, which doesn’t have the lore of the Sky Hook but was probably just as effective.

      I hope that something happens that re-establishes some big-man dominance in the league. Giannis did his thing last year in Wilt-like fashion, and it was beautiful for me to watch. Teams shooting 503’s a game? Not so much.

      You know that Kareem was an eleven time NBA all defensive team memberr while Wilt was only on the all defensive team two times. Wilt did have a lot more rebounds, but the assists per game were about the same.

    9. From an athleticism point of view, Kareem is the guy that made college basketball outlaw the dunk. He was doing it too much.

    10. “I hope that something happens that re-establishes some big-man dominance in the league. Giannis did his thing last year in Wilt-like fashion, and it was beautiful for me to watch. Teams shooting 50 3’s a game? Not so much.”

      People are mostly looking at overall stats and seeing how playing in the post is not as efficient as shooting 3s, but they aren’t looking at who is in the post, does he have a mismatch, who is shooting the 3 and from where carefully enough. Some guys can dominate almost anyone in there and others can dominate mismatches.

      It becomes a self filling prophecy when certain players are practicing nothing but 3s instead of taking advantage of their size or athleticism inside.

      Mid range shots suck overall too, but there’s a huge difference between 19 feet and 10 feet, depending on who is doing the shooting, his potential to draw fouls, the potential for OREBs if you crash the boards, the alternative 3 that’s available and whose shooting that from where.

      Also, a lot of the time the defense simply wins the possession and forces a mid range shot even though you want a shot at the basket or a good look from 3. If you shoot 35% from because you never practice it when you could shoot 40%-45% if you did that lack of practice has negative value. That also reinforces the idea that mid range sucks, when in reality you are going to have to take them so you might as well be very good at that too, especially come playoff time.

    11. I’m surprised Joel Ayayi was cut by the Lakers. He seems like a worthy investment except he’s a pretty similar player to Grimes.

    12. Knick fan not in NJ: You know thatKareem was an eleven time NBA all defensive team memberr while Wilt was only on the all defensive team two times. Wilt did have a lot more rebounds, but the assists per game were about the same.

      This is what I mean by due diligence. The All-defensive team award didn’t exist before the 1968-69 season. Wilt was out with a torn patellar tendon for nearly the entire the 1969-70 season. Yet he still was first team all-defense in 1971-72 and 1972-73 over Kareem. And blocks and steals weren’t even recorded until after Wilt retired.

      As to assists, Wilt led the league in total assists in 1967-68, over all-time great PGs like Oscar, Lenny Wilkins and Dave Bing. (he was second to Oscar in assists per game and prob a bit lower in per minute stats but essentially the Jokic of that season.) Kareem never approached those kinds of numbers.

      I think there’s a very strong argument for Kareem as the GOAT, and I would certainly put him above Wilt in terms of career accomplishments. But at their respective peaks, most analysts who are completely familiar with both of them would say that Wilt was far, far superior in nearly every regard beyond FT shooting, especially with regard to defense, rebounding and passing.

    13. Knick fan not in NJ:
      From an athleticism point of view, Kareem is the guy that made college basketball outlaw the dunk.He was doing it too much.

      Lol, do you realize how many rules changes Wilt was singlehandedly responsible for?

    14. NO Deeefense: Mid range shots suck overall too, but there’s a huge difference between 19 feet and 10 feet, depending on who is doing the shooting, his potential to draw fouls, the potential for OREBs if you crash the boards, the alternative 3 that’s available and whose shooting that from where.

      This is true statistically, but in my opinion, that’s a detriment to the aesthetics of the game. It’s beautiful to see 15-22 footers go in, especially when preceded by a slick off the dribble move. Yet a player who makes 50% of these shots is statistically hurting his team, since efficiency-wise he is equivalent to a 3pt shooter hitting 33%.

      Now I admit that there was an ugliness to the grind-it-out 90’s style of basketball too. So for me it’s about finding that happy medium where all game-action shots are valued similarly at all times. The Magic-Bird era was about as good as it got in that respect. And even the Jordan Bulls era had lots of compelling teams…Jazz, Suns, Blazers…where there was a nice balance between post play, midrange and 3pt shooting.

    15. Z-man: It’s kind of weird that today’s bigs don’t emulate some of the most successful moves of the past…kareem skyhook, wilt fadeaway and finger roll, Moses butt-check baseline jumper, Hakeem dream shake… A guy like Porzingis with a skyhook could dominate, but he’d rather take 3’s and pretend he’s Kevin Durant or Anthony Davis.

      Yeah, he would. KP I mean. I don’t understand it either, maybe he gets pushed too far from the rim. Also why doesn’t Mitch try a hook shot. He cannot be that bad with it.

      I think Ayton was using it successfully in the first couple of games in the finals then went away from it.

    16. Ingmarrrr: I think Ayton was using it successfully in the first couple of games in the finals then went away from it.

      at least Ayton has the quickness to blow by guys. KP doesn’t have that, never did. His gift is length, yet he doesn’t really get how to use it. Kareem didn’t have great ability to establish and hold interior position, like say Wilt or Shaq (or Embiid). So he would post up at around 12-15 feet, knowing he would get pushed out another 3 feet or so on/after the catch because he knew that if he could hit the skyhook in that range, it didn’t matter if he got pushed out a bit further. He shot a ridiculous 56% from 2pt range for his career!! KP has a lower body strength issue, yet he doesn’t seem to grasp how to use his length advantage in that 15-18 foot range the way Kareem did. He could even use the Wilt fadeaway banker without getting all extreme with it like Dirk because he has more length than Dirk and wouldn’t need to fade as much.

    17. Z-man: the quickness to blow by guys. KP doesn’t have that, never did. His gift is length, yet he doesn’t really get how to use it.

      I think KP could hit the skyhook while on the move east west and half facing the basket. But tbh I haven’t seen him play since his injury and move to Dallas so idk.

      I never understood why nobody mentions Shaq when talking about the greatest bigs. Peek Shaq was the most unstoppable force I’ve ever seen in basketball, 2nd only to MJ and I’m not even sure about that.

    18. @FredKatz
      Nerlens Noel (knee) did not practice today, Tom Thibodeau says. Mitchell Robinson practiced and “feels good,” Thibodeau said.

      Noels injury seems more serious than we were led to believe

    19. kevin5318:
      @FredKatz
      Nerlens Noel (knee) did not practice today, Tom Thibodeau says. Mitchell Robinson practiced and “feels good,” Thibodeau said.

      Noels injury seems more serious than we were led to believe

      Definitely worrisome, although it sort of forces Thibs to play Mitch more and that could be a good thing.

    20. Other potential silver linings to Noel being out: either it means that GOAT NBA Player Taj Gibson is back in the rotation, and/or it means that Thibs goes more with the Randle/Toppin frontcourt.

    21. Teams shooting 50 3’s a game? Not so much

      I was laughing at Jason Kidd saying the Mavs were going to stop shooting so many 3s because I thought that would mean more mid-range shots but apparently in the preseason the Mavs have swapped 3s for shots at the rim.

    22. Ingmarrrr: I never understood why nobody mentions Shaq when talking about the greatest bigs. Peek Shaq was the most unstoppable force I’ve ever seen in basketball, 2nd only to MJ and I’m not even sure about that.

      Shaq is a very interesting case. Personally I don’t think he is anywhere near the category of Kareem and Wilt even in his very best years. He physically dominated his peers for sure but it seems that he never maximized who he was and was hurt by not taking conditioning seriously or being much of a leader. He only lead the league in scoring twice, never led in rebounds or blocks, and never averaged more than 3.4 assists per 36.

      I put Shaq in the same category as Russell, Hakeem and Duncan. Each has some quibbles, but all are bigs who I believe would put you at a disadvantage vs. prime Kareem or Wilt in and of themselves. When all is said and done, Giannis will probably join this group. Maybe a healthy Bill Walton and a young Sabonis would be in this group too. Robinson, Ewing and Moses are a notch below, and you could throw a healthy Yao Ming in there too.. Obviously this is all just my opinion, so no offense to anyone who disagrees!

    23. It’s really hard to compare the impact of a traditional big in the era of bigs to guys like Jordan or LeBron or Magic or Bird.

    24. Selden is behind RJ, Fournier, Burks, Grimes, and quite possibly Knox & new Luka (Alan ,will Luka Samanic be ready for the g-league playoffs?)

      I’m not too worried about Wayne Selden, even though I’m pretty sure we can find a better player. We haven’t seen much of Selden, so maybe the coaching staff is able to fix his shooting, he’d be decent if that’s the case.

    25. Alan:
      Anybody on the waiver wire y’all would rather have for the 15th spot than Wayne Selden?

      Garrison Mathews had good games against us, he’s one flyer I’d take, but maybe Thibs really like Selden’s defense.

      What about Marquese Chriss if healthy?

    26. Thanks Alan for Wilt’s link and thanks Z-Man for the quick review on historical bigs,
      it’s a fun sports bar discussion to have. Let’s have a beer, next round on me!

      Being an old geezer I love post moves and the skillful use of the glass (learning it would be very useful for some of our players).

    27. @cybersoze i’m heading to Lisbon and Porto in the first week of November for about 8 days. Any restaurants or inside tips I’d be crazy not to do when I’m out there?

    28. Shaq in his prime was as good offensively as any big in the last 30 years (except maybe Jokic last year) but he was never a particularly good defensive player.

    29. Alan ,will Luka Samanic be ready for the g-league playoffs?

      Early Bird, you are SO lucky that Mike K is still working on the gif embedding function. Because this comment deserves a withering meme in response.

    30. Alan: Early Bird, you are SO lucky that Mike K is still working on the gif embedding function. Because this comment deserves a withering meme in response.

      That’s why I had to get it in now!!

    31. Center dominated offenses pushed a lot of the movement around the perimeter. Too many 2-man games and waiting for guards to cut to the basket. The Ewing offense bogged down with this routine. I loved how Moses Malone attacked the basket. He was always moving forward, steering his position to grab rebounds. It took the pressure off of Andrew Toney and allowed the rest of the 76’ers offense to cook.

    32. See, the problem is that the three pointer is worth 50% more points, but it isn’t even remotely 50% more difficult until you get several feet closer to the basket. When they put the rule in place BITD, there was kind of an unspoken implicit bargain that “we’ll give you 3 points just so long as you keep playing regular basketball and don’t bogart the math.” Under no conceivable circumstances did the people who put the line in contemplate a day in which wide swaths of prime court real estate would become Chernobyl.

      Well, the deal fell apart and the norm was shattered a few years back and the math is being bogarted by every team in the association on a nightly basis. So it’s time for a reset. These sports are entertainment; they aren’t there for the cheat codes to be “figured out” and the celebration of the “figuring out” enterprise that we see has never really resonated with me.

    33. E, all merc’d out: Well, the deal fell apart and the norm was shattered a few years back

      E, I love your unique combination of wide-eyed optimism directed toward human behavior coupled with wild-eyed conspiracy theory, but I’m afraid the rationale is a lot simpler and sadder — humans hate change, even if it’s good for them (in this case in terms of winning games), and it took a couple of basketball generations and a crawl-walk-run before the incredibly obvious math that my kid could’ve figured out became something people actually accepted.

    34. These sports are entertainment; they aren’t there for the cheat codes to be “figured out” and the celebration of the “figuring out” enterprise that we see has never really resonated with me.

      Most people equate this thing called “winning” by their favorite team with “entertainment.” The Phil Jackson How’s It Goink All-Stars tried to play the sport the good old way and they sucked and as a result were not very entertaining.

      I would bet that fans of the Steph Curry Warriors found that team quite entertaining.

    35. I’d love to see an experiment with the zones reversed, meaning inside the arc baskets were worth 3 points and outside the arc baskets worth 2.

      Or just do away with the line and see what happens. It’s not like Steph Curry will stop shooting from distance.

    36. KnickerBloggerPowerRankings:
      @cybersoze i’m heading to Lisbon and Porto in the first week of November for about 8 days. Any restaurants or inside tips I’d be crazy not to do when I’m out there?

      I’m a little busy at the moment, but i’ll think about it, ask some friends, and during the week i’ll get back to you. Already a portuguese citizen or still working on it?

    37. Of course I know that the 3pt line and shot aren’t going anywhere and I’m not as put off by it as my comments may indicate. I hardly watch baseball and football any more but rarely miss a Knicks game.

    38. E, all merc’d out: These sports are entertainment; they aren’t there for the cheat codes to be “figured out” and the celebration of the “figuring out” enterprise that we see has never really resonated with me.

      I agree that sports are meant to be there as entertainment, but they’re also billion-dollar enterprises. You know this. You know why teams hire the best and brightest quants from Harvard, Yale, MIT and Stanford to run their maths departments. You know this.

      Sometime last year I articulated to Lady Jowles that I was no longer interested in the endless drive for efficiency in my favored sportsballs teams. I haven’t been able to shake the connection between the artistry of, say, the dribble-drive and the power of the dollar bill to suck the joy out of every endeavor it accompanies. It has irreparably harmed my ability to enjoy pro (and “amateur”) sports.

    39. Hold on, 3 points is more than 2 points?

      The Steelers have a 255 point punter. Most enjoyable thing I have learned about football in years.

    40. Jowles, I’m totally with you there. But it’s always been the case of having to turn a blind eye to something horrible in sports. Earlier it was hideous worker exploitation and blatant racism. Now it’s capitalism run amok (along with somewhat lesser amounts of worker exploitation and racism).

      I just try to enjoy the dribble drive. But the Knicks are pretty much all I watch anymore.

    41. JK47:
      This Babe Ruth fellow has ruined the game of baseball by learning to hit the ball so far.

      If you connect it with the current propensity to abandon situational hitting and swing for the fences every at bat, strikeouts be damned, or the rise of the McGwire-Sosa-Bonds era, well, yeah.

    42. These new fangled pitchers who “curve” the ball are ruining baseball

      (takes a sip of sasparilla)

    43. JK47:
      These new fangled pitchers who “curve” the ball are ruining baseball

      (takes a sip of sasparilla)

      yeah, thank god they got rid of all that bunting, stealing and hitting the other way…besides, chicks dig the long ball

    44. Ah yes, the most thrilling sports play ever, the bunt. Giving away an out to your opponent. What a shame everybody figured out that it was really stupid. Well, everybody except Ozzie Guillen.

    45. “This sport was at its absolute peak when I was twelve years old”

      -Every fan of every sport

    46. I was twelve years old when the Knicks won their first title.

      So, yeah, in my case it’s safe to say that my NBA fan experience hasn’t improved at all since then.

    47. JK47:
      Ah yes, the most thrilling sports play ever, the bunt. Giving away an out to your opponent. What a shame everybody figured out that it was really stupid. Well, everybody except Ozzie Guillen.

      Right, baseball was incredibly stupid for 100 years before “everybody” figured it out. Nothing like watching the excitement of a bunch of strikeouts and grounders into the shift! (punctuated by a pop-up that drifts into the right field porch of a newfangled bandbox of a stadium, see: the Bronx) Scintillating! So exciting that a huge fan for 50 years like myself hasn’t watched a single inning of non-NY baseball since the Yankees were eliminated and would rather watch a Knicks preseason game than a non-Mets World Series game. Or that at the “game of the year” I took my family to (Yanks-Mets Lindot 3 HR game) it took 1.5 hours to get through the first couple of innings. That, despite massive efforts by “everybody” in recent years to figure out how to speed the game up so that kids get more interested in playing and watching it.

      Congrats on your spirited defense of our national pastime!

    48. (punctuated by a pop-up that drifts into the right field porch of a newfangled bandbox of a stadium, see: the Bronx)

      Just for the record, NYS has been more or less an average run environment since it opened (actually ranks 22nd in the most recent 3-year rolling window) and that’s true even if you limit the analysis to home runs specifically.

    49. A bunt puts athletes into action. That’s far preferable to athletes standing around scratching themselves.

      There are constituencies for which “efficiency” in sports is important. This is absolutely true. As Jowles noted, I know this and most of us here know this. As best I can tell, none of us are in these constituencies although some of us appear to want to be, vicariously. It’s this vicarious desire that I don’t really understand. Efficiency in baseball has made it virtually unwatchable. Why would any fan ever prefer an unwatchable exercise in efficiency over a very watchable exercise that included occasional inefficiency?

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