Knicks Morning News (2021.10.11)

  • Knicks buying into Tom Thibodeau’s new 3-point message – New York Post
    [nypost.com] — Sunday, October 10, 2021 9:36:00 PM

    Knicks buying into Tom Thibodeau’s new 3-point message  New York Post

  • Knicks rookie Jericho Sims is ‘an introvert’: Derrick Rose – New York Daily News
    [www.nydailynews.com] — Sunday, October 10, 2021 2:36:00 PM

    Knicks rookie Jericho Sims is ‘an introvert’: Derrick Rose  New York Daily News

  • Knicks 117, Wizards 99: ‘Barrett was Barrett’ – Posting and Toasting
    [www.postingandtoasting.com] — Sunday, October 10, 2021 1:04:59 PM

    Knicks 117, Wizards 99: ‘Barrett was Barrett’  Posting and ToastingThe numbers behind the Knicks thrashing of the Wizards  Bullets ForeverKevin Knox makes most of his Knicks chance in rout of Wizards  New York Post 5 thoughts on Knicks preseason victory over the Wizards  New York Daily NewsKnicks incorporating more three-point shots into offensive game plan  NewsdayView Full Coverage on Google News

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    101 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2021.10.11)”

    1. Only three stories for Mike K’s algorithm today. What topic can we all get obnoxiously strident about today?

    2. I’ll start.

      I’m not a huge fan of setting a goal for 3 point attempts like we seem to be doing. I think you take what the defense gives you. If you want to say we are going to try to substitute good 3s for long 2s, I’m fine with that. But I’m not a fan of as many 3s as possible. That may work in the regular season and again in the playoffs when you have super elite shooters, but a lot of guys struggle with tougher defense and player pressure. I’d rather have a balanced attack of 3s, going to the basket, and very high quality mid range shots (with the potential for a foul) than an extra 5-10 mediocre 3s.

    3. At the end of the post article it talked about playing smaller with Randle at the 5.

    4. I didn’t figure Jericho for an introvert.

      We have 5-6 guys capable of shooting 40% from three. I think letting them shoot seems like a good idea.

    5. I’m not a huge fan of setting a goal for 3 point attempts like we seem to be doing. I think you take what the defense gives you. If you want to say we are going to try to substitute good 3s for long 2s, I’m fine with that. But I’m not a fan of as many 3s as possible. That may work in the regular season and again in the playoffs when you have super elite shooters, but a lot of guys struggle with tougher defense and player pressure. I’d rather have a balanced attack of 3s, going to the basket, and very high quality mid range shots (with the potential for a foul) than an extra 5-10 mediocre 3s.

      We aren’t becoming the Rockets we’re just trying not to be 27th in the league in 3PA again. You’ll be okay.

    6. So thrilled to be supporting a basketball team that seems talented and well-coached with players who are easy to root for. I hope this season is a fun one. My Mets are a downer and my Niners are crapping the bed.

    7. I’m not a huge fan of setting a goal for 3 point attempts like we seem to be doing. I think you take what the defense gives you.

      How’s it goink?

    8. I found something unifying for the day…

      New York Basketball
      @NBA_NewYork
      ·
      10h
      Mark Jackson on ESPN Suns Lakers game: Elfrid Payton didn’t get enough credit for the Knicks’ turnaround

    9. Owen: We have 5-6 guys capable of shooting 40% from three. I think letting them shoot seems like a good idea.

      This and improved passing. When I first heard that Thibs wanted more 3PA, I thought it a euphemism for “now that we have better passers”

    10. You say that but the odds Mark Jackson ends up Knicks coach in my lifetime still feel well over 50%.

    11. Knickerblogger 2024

      Miles McBride could have been a good player but Thibs only played him 14 minutes in the 2021 preseason instead of 32

      Oh what could have been

    12. @JK47

      At this point, I just ignore that kind of stuff. People here want to complain and hold onto grudges with one another and the front office/coaching staff instead of enjoying their team. Its tiresome, but winning cures all that junk….at least I think.

    13. Woj:

      Sixers officials and Klutch CEO Rich Paul have progressed in talks over recent days on a resolution to bring All-Star Ben Simmons back to Philadelphia in the near future, sources tell ESPN. Discussions are ongoing.

      The plan remains for the Sixers to continue canvassing the league for trades, but the possibility of Simmons reporting to the team has increased in recent days, sources tell ESPN.

    14. I guess it’s better for the Sixers to have him back in the fold because they’ll presumably win more games and he’ll have a chance to boost his trade value, but weirdly enough I could see it cutting in the other direction too.

      How much can his value really improve by playing well? Everyone knows the guy is really good. The only thing that could truly make a significant impact would be him showing up with a half-passable jump shot, which, lol. If he mopes around Harden style, maybe his value sinks even more.

    15. Probably worse for the Sixers for Simmons to report. If he just dogs it or creates a distraction ie. Jimmy Butler then it’ll just make it even more painful for everyone.

      If I’m Simmons – I basically NEVER shoot the ball. 0 FGA every time they put me in. Oh, and my hammy is a little sore, might need to sit for a few games in a row.

      Eventually they’ll be forced to sit him — everyone gets all the questions all the time at press conferences, he gets paid, etc.

    16. Hubert, that means we can all agree that it’s time to discuss the worst episode of The Sopranos, right?

    17. Alan: Hubert, that means we can all agree that it’s time to discuss the worst episode of The Sopranos, right?


      the worrrrrrrrrrstttttttttt

    18. Butler never dogged it, though. Its basically unprecedented for a really good but not superstar elite player who is under a 4 year contract to completely dog or sit out in the hopes of getting traded. I feel like he would completely tank his value and end up in a place he did not want to be if he did that.

      He is better off playing. They will win games and people will see him playing and being good again. I think his shortcomings are being overblown a bit bc of all this drama and one playoff series where he was really bad.

      He needs to get over himself and play. He can still advocate for a trade but he is under contact for 4 years and his value is at an all time low. Like it’s one thing to sit out games and refuse to play in a contract year or even the year before but when you have 4 years left on your contract? He’s getting bad advice.

    19. Not to re-litigate, but since it’s still a bit of the topic du jour, I’ll try for the fourth time (first three disappeared into the ether):

      My wanting to see more of Deuce and Grimes is purely because I think they may actually be NBA-ready players — as compared to Frank (sigh), Knox (morphing into a poor man’s Novak?), Sims (NBA-ready body, but needs seasoning), and even Obi for 2/3 of last year — and I want to find out if my hypothesis is accurate or not. Unfortunately it seems I won’t be able to find out for a while because Thibs. Which is annoying.

      It’s my preference (nod to Z-Man) to find this out sooner than later. Although if Rose is the next vet to rest, given his ankle, perhaps my dreams will be realized.

    20. Speaking of The Sopranos, what did people think of the movie?

      Without giving away spoilers, I love the performances but the story left me wanting more. If its the beginning of 2 or 3 more movies, then I am down though. I liked the Leslie Odom Jr. character and plotline but also felt like they just dropped it and left it unresolved so what was the point of having it in there. Overall I would say it was kind of a disappointment but I did think the performances were all good and it had some nice moments.

    21. I just think its silly to worry about Deuce and McBride at this point. Thibs plays young players when he thinks their ready and there really is no hard data that playing rookies who aren’t ready somehow makes them more likely to be NBA ready sooner or reach their potential. Knox played a ton of minutes his rookie year and isn’t really any better now than he was then. Butler barely played under Thibs his rookie year and then came back and played a ton his sophomore year cause he put in the work to get better and Thibs trusted him. I hate using the “we don’t see what’s going on in practice” excuse but we really don’t. Rose and Kemba won’t play every night so McBride will get his chances. Rose, Kemba and Burks will all be done with their contracts and these 2 rookies will still be on their rookie contracts with us. We are not a rebuilding team anymore.

    22. thenoblefacehumper: We aren’t becoming the Rockets we’re just trying not to be 27th in the league in 3PA again. You’ll be okay.

      The only thing strat is right about is that when you have elite shooters, you can have a good offense. Water is also wet.

      TS% tracks remarkably well with ORtg, which, haha, surprise! It is possible, strat, to have a decent offense with a ton of midrange shots — to be the #5 offense (PHX) with nearly 25% of your attempts from 10-26 feet, as opposed to the #21 offense (SAS) with the same number — but in the case of PHX, they have one of the greatest midrange shooters in league history, which is a tough asset to come by.

      HOU, as tnfh notes, has been known for taking an insane number of 3PA for years now, landing at #3 in 3PA/poss. this season while ranking #28 in 3P% and consequently, in part, #27 in overall ORtg. This is bad!

      The problem for HOU is that John Wall (31.7% 3PT, 249 3PA), Eric Gordon (32.9%, 210), Jae’Sean Tate (30.8%, 195), Ben McLemore (33.1%, 166), Kevin Porter (31.1%, 161) and Victor “I’m a max player” Oladipo (32%, 153) all managed to be in their top 10 in 3PA volume, which is a recipe for disaster. Of course, if you turn those attempts into long 2s at a 45% clip, they score even fewer points. So, yeah, bad or worse. When you have bad shooters (and who could have possibly seen 30-year-old, twice-hobbled John Wall being this bad?) it’s kind of hard to win basketball games at all.

    23. That piece is definitely interesting. I wish Strauss would write more often about this kind of thing.

      Sadly since going independent his focus has been all about how political correctness has run amok blah blah blah, which, whatever you think about the opinion, is not exactly a novel or interesting take.

    24. SPOILERS!!!

      The Many Saints of Newark should’ve been made into a 10 episode miniseries. It was too much material that got crammed into a two and half hour movie. The film didn’t know if it wanted to be a story about the fall of Dickey Moltisanti or an origin story for Tony Soprano. I suppose Chase wanted to merge those two storylines together to see how the two characters were intertwined amidst the civil unrest of the late 1960s to early 1970s in Newark. But the writing and direction were too clunky to pull it off in the allotted movie format time. I also didn’t understand some of the narrative choices, like choosing Christopher to be the omniscient narrator for the story. Unless you’re going with a cheap callback to cater to old fans, his perspective wasn’t optimal to introduce the narrative. I think it should’ve been told by Dickey himself, ruminating on his own past mistakes from the grave.

      But I did enjoy many of the performances. I think Alessandro Nivola has been a criminally overlooked and underrated actor in mainstream circles for years and he served the part well. My special congratulations to John Magaro for perfectly capturing the quirks and mannerisms of Steve Van Zant’s portrayal as Silvio Dante. He was uncanny in the role. Though I felt Jon Bernanthal was very milquetoast and wooden as Johnny Boy. The original actor from the series was far better in the role.

    25. TNFH – you are saying mixing basketball takes with politics is a bad thing?

      :-)

      Just the idea that Shams dropped that Lonzo news in a way that would mess the Bulls up because they have a Woj guy in charge, it’s too good.

    26. It will shock you not at all to learn that I wrote a LOT about Many Saints over at Rolling stone. To Barrettcuda’s point, my biggest issue with the movie was that David Chase was adamant that it be no longer than two hours (not even 2.5), and you can feel lots of material is missing as a result. But I do love individual pieces of it.

    27. As to our rookies, the question isn’t so much whether Grimes and Deuce are ready to play as it is whether they are better options right now than the vets ahead of them on the depth chart. IQ got a lot of run early last year in part because our point guard talent base was so awful, and Obi wound up in the rotation mainly because there wasn’t another good option to back up Randle. Sims is getting preseason action only because both Noel and Mitch are hurt. Is Grimes better right now than, say, Alec Burks? Is Deuce better than IQ right now? Maybe, but I kind of doubt it. And I’m okay with trusting this coaching staff — which has two guys in Johnny Bryant and Kenny Payne who have impeccable reputations as developmental coaches — to both decide that and to work with the kids even when they’re not playing.

    28. Not sure why so many people in my circle found Many Saints so disappointing. Its main issue is one of scope: there’s simply too much going on, so some important plot points feel unearned or too quick by half and some prominent characters in the television series are reduced to props. In particular, Leslie Odom’s Harold doesn’t get enough screen time (the movie is at its best when focusing on the fraught relationships Dickie has with Tony and Harold) and Giuseppina, ably played by Michela De Rossi, is far too thinly drawn.

      But the main throughline of the story—the relationship between Dickie and Tony—is really well-done. Much of this can be credited to the strength of the performances of Nivola, Gandolfini, and Vera Farmiga, who is uncanny as Livia. They all fully inhabit their roles in a way that makes the film closer to something like a character study in the trappings of a mob epic. In my view, If Many Saints really committed to being a character study and reduced its scope to focus more on Dickie, Tony, Harold, and Livia, then it probably would’ve been a terrific movie.

      As it stands, it’s a messy and flawed work, but one that has enough going for it (the core performances are really great, and the themes of the film, of a piece with themes of the show, ultimately resonate) that I would like to see more of what happens in this universe, either in the theater or, preferably, as a television series, where Chase’s natural instincts to stretch out and sprawl are more at home.

    29. SPOILERS!

      Nice article, Alan. To piggyback off what you wrote, I also didn’t like the cheap callbacks in the movie. They felt gratuitous – like the kind of cheap fan service Chase tried to avoid during the original Sopranos run. I cringed when I saw Uncle Junior cram in the infamous “Varsity Athlete” line. Other moments didn’t seem earned like when Livia pulls out her pattened “Poor You!” put down after they rushed her complicated relationship with mental illness and motherhood in the movie.

    30. Alan, totally agree with you (not just out of fear of more all-caps), the two rookies almost certainly belong at the bottom of the depth chart right now. It’s just my driving curiosity that’s upset. Between Grimes knocking down those two threes, and watching Deuce locking up that admittedly probably fourth-string point guard at half court for two glorious minutes (Matisse Thybulle imagery — be still my beating heart!), I just really want to know how much of Summer League was fool’s gold.

      Patience is a virtue, I suppose…

    31. Supposedly our starters are rotating days to sit, so at least one game Deuce & Grimes will get a large amount of playing time. I don’t really think it makes much difference either way, we’re talking about a couple minutes here and there.

      Fwiw, the Bulls starters all played over 30min the other day. You see a lot of newly put together teams struggle early on, it happened to the Miami LeBrons and the Boston Garnett’s. Both teams were good but took some time to click. A few extra minutes to work on execution in 4 preseason games might not be a cure all but it can’t hurt.

      The rookies will need to play eventually but they’ll have more practices and possibly g-league games to get up to speed. The rookies will keep preparing until someone gets injured, which (fingers crossed) won’t happen immediately. The rotation needs to be ready in 4 games.

      Again, either way is fine. It’s only a handful of minutes here or there.

    32. If either Grimes or McBride are forced into a critical role this year, it probably means things aren’t going well. We are perfectly positioned to develop young players slowly, via practice and the G League.

      When criticizing Thibs for leaving starters in too long in a decided preseason game, take a step back. The victory is not important, so it doesn’t matter if the game is decided or not. The purpose of the preseason is to for the guys who are going to play to tune up. The score of the game is irrelevant.

    33. Owen: I found something unifying for the day…
      New York Basketball @NBA_NewYork:
      Mark Jackson on ESPN Suns Lakers game: Elfrid Payton didn’t get enough credit for the Knicks’ turnaround

      See what you did? Now i’m gonna have nightmares where the Knicks are coached by Mark Jackson and Elfrid is the starting PG!

    34. To me, at least, Livia Soprano was the greatest villain in TV history. She was every bit as fascinating as her son was. The Many Saints of Newark barely gave Vera any material to work with, IMO, after suggesting so much about her character and failing to explore it. She barely interacted with Dickey, who it seems she had an attraction to. I was hoping they would’ve explored her fraught relationship with Tony as the man of the house while Johnny was in prison. The movie is hoping that we understand all of the background and context that was developed during the Sopranos, but what is the point of writing a movie if you’re not going to tell that story as a standalone? Anyway, maybe my hopes were too high.

    35. @FredKatz
      Julius Randle says his son, Jayce, was born Friday. Spent the weekend with the family. Says “all four of us” watched Knicks/Wizards together Saturday. He is unsurprisingly very, very smiley today.

      Awww….

    36. I’ll be honest and say me wanting to see Deuce and Grimes is purely selfish and has nothing to do with whats best for the team. They were a joy to watch in Summer league and we already know what we’re getting out of someone like Rose and Burks.

    37. Julius is really a great guy. :)
      Part of me wants him to be a Knick for life, but the other part thinks we’ll probably need to trade him to get to be a real championship contender. Will we, or can we win it all with Julius?

    38. @FredKatz
      Derrick Rose (ankle) and Nerlens Noel (sore knee) both participated in full practice today, Tom Thibodeau said. Said “we’ll see” about Wednesday’s exhibition against the Pistons.

    39. Hubert: Hubert
      October 11, 2021 at 12:54 pm
      If either Grimes or McBride are forced into a critical role this year, it probably means things aren’t going well. We are perfectly positioned to develop young players slowly, via practice and the G League.

      When criticizing Thibs for leaving starters in too long in a decided preseason game, take a step back. The victory is not important, so it doesn’t matter if the game is decided or not. The purpose of the preseason is to for the guys who are going to play to tune up. The score of the game is irrelevant.

      Barrettcuda: So thrilled to be supporting a basketball team that seems talented and well-coached with players who are easy to root for…People here want to complain and hold onto grudges with one another and the front office/coaching staff instead of enjoying their team.

      It has to be a good omen when Z-man, Hubert and ras are all on the same page going into the season…

    40. Raven: My wanting to see more of Deuce and Grimes is purely because I think they may actually be NBA-ready players — as compared to Frank (sigh), Knox (morphing into a poor man’s Novak?), Sims (NBA-ready body, but needs seasoning), and even Obi for 2/3 of last year — and I want to find out if my hypothesis is accurate or not. Unfortunately it seems I won’t be able to find out for a while because Thibs. Which is annoying.

      It’s my preference (nod to Z-Man) to find this out sooner than later.

      kevin5318: kevin5318
      October 11, 2021 at 1:26 pm
      I’ll be honest and say me wanting to see Deuce and Grimes is purely selfish and has nothing to do with whats best for the team.

      That’s pretty much where I’m at….I’d love to see more of them too! But I love the way the rotation guys are playing (as well as Knox and Sims, who are only in due to other guys being unavailable but have played well) so it’s all good by me.

    41. That’s very good news, Alan. It’d be nice to have Noel back for the remaining 2 games of the preseason.

    42. Voiceover? Is it a continuation of the pilot?

      I can’t watch anything else until Lady Jowles has finished Breaking Bad (just started Season 5 and have never loved watching anyone watch a TV show more than her watching Walter White do Walter White things). So I’m bookmarking this one for later review. Give me all your hot takes.

    43. In the long run, the amount of minutes our rookies play in the preseason is pretty inconsequential to both our upcoming season and their long-term development but that does not mean it is not potentially troubling. It just reaffirms and further demonstrates our coach’s priorities. He does not prioritize young players or their development.

      Last year Thibs kept IQ on a short leash despite him being our second-best guard, this looks to continue this year with IQ firmly behind both Rose and Burks as the last guard off the bench. It also happened with Obi, playing a very low amount of minutes and never getting any run next to Randle, this also looks to continue this year with Obi firmly behind Randle in the rotation and with no apparent plans to even give a cursory look to how he plays with Randle rather than just behind him.

      Now we have two rookies who were supposedly selected over other players with higher ceilings because they were more NBA ready and despite that seem to have no place in the rotation and don’t seem to warrant even a look in the preseason.

      Other good playoff-bound teams are seemingly able to give their rookies real minutes in the preseason. This is because their management and coaching staff value young players and are willing to take time to help them develop. We seem unwilling to.

    44. Regardess of preseason, I think I’ve seen enough to feel confident in Deuce and Grimes having potential to help us this year.I’m happy we drafted them.

    45. It just reaffirms and further demonstrates our coach’s priorities. He does not prioritize young players or their development.

      This just seems wrong.

      Last year when Obi showed up at camp he was clueless about how to play basketball. When he got into games he was clueless about how to play basketball. Did he just waste away on the bench and never improve, to be banished from the rotation forever? Why, no! He actually got better. You might say he was… developed. By the end of the year he was a useful piece, and voila, he got minutes.

      Immanuel Quickley came to the team more NBA ready, and he was a rotation player pretty much from the jump. Ten games into the season Quickley was regularly getting 20+ minutes per game.

      Thibs’ policy towards rookies seems to be, “work your ass off, improve your game, and you’ll get to play.” That seems like a completely fine policy to me.

    46. Ben R, you seem to completely ignore that Thibs made his philosophy on developing young players crystal clear. He does not feel that playing time in games is necessary for their development, and in fact, feels that giving them playing time when they either aren’t ready for it or haven’t earned it can be harmful for their development. If anything, the fact that IQ and Obi have developed so much more than folks felt they were capable of sort of confirms that he’s on to something with that. Are you really going to assume that IQ and Obi would have developed more rapidly under a less demanding coach in a losing environment? That playing on a winning team where you had to earn every minute wasn’t good for their development?

      And does RJ qualify as a young player? He was second on the team in minutes, and Thibs stuck with him even when he got off to a dismal start last season. Has Thibs been bad for RJ’s development?

      Frankly, it’s just silly to keep banging the drum that Thibs doesn’t prioritoze developing young players. He clearly does. It just doesn’t take priority over winning as many games as possible. And since we aren’t tanking no matter what our own preferences are, one can only fairly expect that he would not give the young guys any minutes at the expense of winning, whether in the preseason, regular season or playoffs.

    47. There’s no room for the rookies in the rotation as of now. This team goes 10 deep and we are in the business of winning right now. That said, there were certainly games last year in which more than 10 players played, and there’ll be rest days, injuries, blowout / garbage time etc.
      My guess is that at least one of the 2 rookies will play 500 minutes which is in same ballpark as Obi played last year (683 min).

      I’ll tell you this much – if we keep shooting 24/52 from 3, there’ll be a lot of garbage time for the kiddos.

    48. all rookies deserve playing time over established veterans even on good teams, don’t you know? When someone is drafted in the NBA, they should feel entitled to playing time and not motivated to work harder and impress their coach.

    49. I agree that Thibs goes overboard with playing rotation guys in blowouts, even starters. That’s pretty unanimous here. But since even one blown game would have cost us home court advantage in the playoffs, I can live with his extremely conservative approach to subbing guys out. And last year, the end of bench guys were Frank, Knox, Harper, Pinson and Pelle…in other words, guys with zero upside or future with the team…you can throw in DSJ and Iggy here too. Maybe he will have more invested in McBride, Grimes, and Sims (Knox and whoever will almost certainly not be around next year.)

    50. This just seems wrong.

      Last year when Obi showed up at camp he was clueless about how to play basketball. When he got into games he was clueless about how to play basketball. Did he just waste away on the bench and never improve, to be banished from the rotation forever? Why, no! He actually got better. You might say he was… developed. By the end of the year he was a useful piece, and voila, he got minutes.

      Immanuel Quickley came to the team more NBA ready, and he was a rotation player pretty much from the jump. Ten games into the season Quickley was regularly getting 20 minutes per game.

      Thibs’ policy towards rookies seems to be, “work your ass off, improve your game, and you’ll get to play.” That seems like a completely fine policy to me.

      And RJ Barrett might not have been a rookie, but he was 20 and had the 2nd most minutes in the NBA. Young Mitch started over the veteran Noel, too.

      There are fair criticisms of Thibs, but his track record with player development is not one of them. He’s actually quite good at it. His astute management of RJ, Mitch, IQ, and Obi last year deserves recognition.

      I don’t know why we pass over young prospects in the draft for more seasoned college players. We (myself included) have at times assumed this has something to do with Thibs, but it could just be a Leon thing.

    51. The only thing strat is right about is that when you have elite shooters, you can have a good offense. Water is also wet.

      As usual, you have no idea what you are talking about.

      We shot well from 3 last year because Thibs had the team focused on taking higher quality 3s on lower than average volume, not because we have very good 3 point shooters.

      Do you seriously think Randle, RJ, and Quick (among others) shot worse against Atlanta because of bad luck?

      It was because Atlanta was playing good defense, taking away some of their easier shots, and the Knicks were feeling the playoff pressure.

      You can’t just arbitrarily say we shot well from 3 last year so we should shoot more of them. You have to get the same quality shots on that higher volume and be able to make them under playoff pressure to make it worthwhile relative to alternatives.

      An elite team of shooters can adjust to that playoff caliber defense. Most teams (players) cannot.

      We have improved our 3 point shooting a little this year, but not that much. Fournier is a better all around offensive player than Bullock, but Bullock is also a good 3 point shooter from his spots. So we basically added Kemba for Payton. That’s an improvement but not a huge fundamental change in our 3 point shooting.

      You can’t just say let’s shoot 10 more 3s and expect it to work unless you have the players that can do it against playoff defense and pressure.

    52. Some people seem to be under the impression that we are still tanking and the priority is getting minutes for our kids to help their development. The priority is winning basketball games. Minutes will be allocated based on merit and other goals related to winning. Right now the goal is getting the starters in good enough shape to start the season off fast and to get Kemba and Fournier comfortable with what we are doing on both sides of the ball because both are new. When the kids earn minutes, they’ll get minutes. In the mean time, they are working on their games.

    53. We have much better playmaking now in the starting unit with Kemba and Fournier replacing Payton and Bullock. AND we gain another legit shooting threat in Kemba. We can put four 3-point threats on the floor pretty much at all times. So far this team looks like a well-spaced team that moves the ball really well, so we should be able to get a lot of good looks from 3.

      More threes AND better threes.

    54. “As usual, you have no idea what you are talking about“

      Major “Jane you ignorant slut” energy

      I am loving how fired up everyone is despite being literally a combined inch apart on this issue

    55. Deeefense: It was because Atlanta was playing good defense, taking away some of their easier shots, and the Knicks were feeling the playoff pressure.

      The delta between the Knicks’ regular season 3P% and playoffs was about 7 additional missed 3PA over those five games.

      Here are some of those misses:

      https://youtu.be/5CH8BlnmJL4?t=29

      3PA:

      1) Collins is late to recover on the screen and Trae is nowhere to be found. Lightly contested miss.
      2) Wide open miss (great defense!)
      3) Well-contested on the closeout, hits the buzzer-beating 3 anyway.
      4) Wide open brick (great defense!)
      5) Decent contest by Collins, bricked corner 3 on the catch-and-shoot.
      6) Deep contested 3 on a hard offensive foul screen (made)
      7) Deep contested 3 during garbage time, brick.

      I am going to spend all day tracking down the rest of the 3PT footage so I can poke holes in your unsurprising conjecture.

      It’s like you can’t admit that basketball players miss open shots and make contested ones, and virtually anything can happen over the course of five games when you’re talking about high-variance basketball plays like 3-pointers.

    56. Deeefense: It was because Atlanta was playing good defense, taking away some of their easier shots, and the Knicks were feeling the playoff pressure.

      The delta between the Knicks’ regular season 3P% and playoffs was about 7 additional missed 3PA over those five games.

      Here are some of those misses:

      [apparently I can’t post links anymore, so YouTube Julius Randle PO G3 Hawks]

      3PA:

      1) Collins is late to recover on the screen and Trae is nowhere to be found. Lightly contested miss.
      2) Wide open miss (great defense!)
      3) Well-contested on the closeout, hits the buzzer-beating 3 anyway.
      4) Wide open brick (great defense!)
      5) Decent contest by Collins, bricked corner 3 on the catch-and-shoot.
      6) Deep contested 3 on a hard offensive foul screen (made)
      7) Deep contested 3 during garbage time, brick.

      I am going to spend all day tracking down the rest of the 3PT footage so I can poke holes in your unsurprising conjecture.

      It’s like you can’t admit that basketball players miss open shots and make contested ones, and virtually anything can happen over the course of five games when you’re talking about high-variance basketball plays like 3-pointers.

    57. I want to see Deuce become Marcus Smart and Grimes become Alan Houston and I want to see it now.

    58. The Honorable Cock Jowles:
      [apparently I can’t post links anymore, so YouTube Julius Randle PO G3 Hawks]

      3PA:
      1) Collins is late to recover on the screen and Trae is nowhere to be found. Lightly contested miss.
      2) Wide open miss (great defense!)
      3) Well-contested on the closeout, hits the buzzer-beating 3 anyway.
      4) Wide open brick (great defense!)
      5) Decent contest by Collins, bricked corner 3 on the catch-and-shoot.
      6) Deep contested 3 on a hard offensive foul screen (made)
      7) Deep contested 3 during garbage time, brick.

      This is the confirmation of what i was suspecting all along – the Invisible Sixth Man switched sides to the Hawks on the playoff series.

    59. Going from Elf to Kemba is a huge fundamental change to the Knicks 3pt shooting, like it’s a freaking enormous difference.

    60. Going from Elf to Kemba is a huge fundamental change to the Knicks 3pt shooting, like it’s a freaking enormous difference.

      Also, Fournier and Bullock both shot 41% despite Fournier taking an extra 3PA/100 possessions and only being assisted on 78.6% of his threes as opposed to 97.5% for Bullock. It’s not as massive as the Kemba/Bullock difference, but it’s not nothing.

      Fournier’s ability to put up more difficult looks than Bullock without an efficiency drop off was pretty much the raison d’être behind signing him.

    61. The Thibs 3pt target seems very attainable to the point where it’s almost not really saying anything. Adding Kemba to the starting lineup & seeing the preseason offense run a faster pace with better ball movement, I suspect we’d take 37 a game even without an explicit goal to do so.

      There should be about 1500min available for Grimes or Deuce just based on Rose/Kemba/Fournier/Burks getting injured or taking rest days.

    62. thenoblefacehumper: Fournier’s ability to put up more difficult looks than Bullock without an efficiency drop off was pretty much the raison d’être behind signing him.

      The only concern is whether Fournier’s D is enough a trade-off to mitigate the offensive jump. I personally don’t think it will be, Fournier is a smart player with decent size and athleticism, and he’ll have Mitch and Noel protecting the rim when he loses his man on drives. I guess that’s where Thibs comes in. Also, maybe RJ gets some assignments that Bullock got last year vs. bigger wings and Fournier stays with SGs. But Kemba is also a defensive liability, so there’s 2 guys in the starting lineup that bear watching. So long as they do their thing on O it probably works better overall than last year’s group, but there will definitely be some things to watch.

    63. There should be about 1500min available for Grimes or Deuce just based on Rose/Kemba/Fournier/Burks getting injured or taking rest days.

      This assumes Thibs doesn’t just tighten the rotation if only one guy is out with, say, IQ starting in place of Walker and then sliding over to SG when Rose comes in. We were pretty lucky with injuries last year, but were there any games where Thibs essentially just played 9 guys while someone was out?

    64. In the starting unit, four of the five players can shoot threes well, and the same four guys can also attack the rim. Last year it was three out of five guys who could shoot and only two out of five that could attack the rim. Second unit is pretty much the same deal, it’s the same second unit as last year but we’re getting a full year of Rose and presumably a full year of improved Obi.

      It should be a much improved offense.

    65. Yeah, 1500 min will partially go to RJ/Burks/Fournier or whoever is healthy, but Thibs will run with players who perform. It’s going to be on Grimes & Deuce to take those minutes back. I could see both stepping up to the challenge (Deuce may have a shorter leash at PG but I see him playing some 2 with his wingspan).

    66. JK47:
      In the starting unit, four of the five players can shoot threes well, and the same four guys can also attack the rim. Last year it was three out of five guys who could shoot and only two out of five that could attack the rim. Second unit is pretty much the same deal, it’s the same second unit as last year but we’re getting a full year of Rose and presumably a full year of improved Obi.

      It should be a much improved offense.

      It certainly looks improved based on the first two preseason games.

    67. Tried hot yoga tonight…

      I’ll never quit just because of the eye candy let alone the workout. Lol

    68. I went to yoga for like 5 years in my mid twenties and never got a single phone number. I am both proud of myself and very disappointed.

    69. I used it to rehab an injury and left after one too many Russell Simmons farts. Although his shameless giggles after the farts were the worst part of it. And yes, when all the allegations against him came out I felt pretty dumb for being angry at him over flatulence.

      I don’t think yoga is a great way to exercise. Probably on a par with walking. But it’s definitely fun and has mental health benefits.

      And yes, I am definitely trying to see if I can ignite a 500 comment war over whether yoga is exercise or not.

    70. Davion Mitchell 5-7 from 3 in 18 first half minutes. That’s 9-14 for preseason. And he hasn’t mised a single FT!

    71. Sacramento is 2-0 in the pre-season against the Suns and the Clippers and now looking like they will beat Portland. They have been accumulating talent by making reasonable draft picks for a while now. I think they might be real this season. This is very much not matching pundit wisdom. In comparison, lots of people are predicting good things for the Lakers despite their giving up a lot of defense in the off season and then being 0-4 in preseason so far. I would love to see Sacramento above the Lakers in the standings.

    72. Owen:

      And yes, I am definitely trying to see if I can ignite a 500 comment war over whether yoga is exercise or not.

      ex·er·cise
      /?eks?r?s?z/
      Learn to pronounce
      noun
      1.
      activity requiring physical effort, carried out to sustain or improve health and fitness…..

      nuff said…in just one comment..

    73. Walking and yoga are great ways to exercise and my wife’s supermodel body is a testament to just how wrong you are, Owen

    74. I never found walking much good as exercise. Unless it’s uphill it doesn’t feel like exercise at all.

    75. Admittedly, I’m far from the most in-shape member of our little community, so walking may be the form of exercise best suited to me for now. But I’ve been walking a ton of late, and it’s been reasonably effective both in terms of weight loss (I’ve shed about 10 pounds) and just me feeling better.

    76. I’ve been doing 120 minutes of steady cardio ( thank you Jowles)daily (12.5-minute miles including 30 flights of stairs) and partially as a result have lost 20 pounds and find myself in the best shape I have been in 10 years. My old man’s knees can’t handle the pounding of running. Highly recommend if you have the time.

    77. Knick fan not in NJ:
      Sacramento is 2-0 in the pre-season against the Suns and the Clippers and now looking like they will beat Portland. They have been accumulating talent by making reasonable draft picks for a while now.I think they might be real this season. This is very much not matching pundit wisdom. In comparison, lots of people are predicting good things for the Lakers despite their giving up a lot of defense in the off season and then being 0-4 in preseason so far. I would love to see Sacramento above the Lakers in the standings.

      Right now, i’m not a SAC fan. Over 3 games, they played Queta a total of 2.6 mins. I guess, like McBride and Grimes, he’ll have to patiently work his way up on the G-League and team scrimmages.
      But you’re right, i think they have a good chance to have a breakout year. At least on paper, the team looks more balanced and with better depth than before.

    78. Dennis Smith Jr. turned some heads in Monday’s preseason action with 18 points, seven assists, two rebounds, one steal and two triples in 26 minutes.
      DSJ played some pretty good basketball with the Pistons last season and is with the Blazers on a non-guaranteed deal. He has a good chance of making the roster though, and tonight could certainly go a long way. Anfernee Simons, who is penciled in as the backup PG behind Damian Lillard, also had a strong showing with 24 points.

      How about this? Looks like ex-Knicks are a hot commodity around the league. :D

    79. Ben Simmons has reportedly arrived in Philadelphia and taken a COVID test, as required by protocol.
      It’s happening, folks. It looks like Simmons will indeed play again for the Sixers, which is somewhat hard to believe. It will be an interesting experiment and there’s still a decent chance the Sixers will continue to try to move him. Money talks and Simmons was set to potentially lose a ton of it if he continued to hold out. He still can’t shoot and has a lot of baggage to deal with, but at least it looks like he’s got a decent shot at playing on opening night.

      For the Knicks it’d probably be better if he didn’t play, but i think it’s better like this, players should play, not be sitting on the sidelines trying to overpower FOs.
      Of course it’ll all depend on his attitude, if he pulls a last season Harden, then it’ll be even worst for the Sixers that he shows up.

    80. I walk to work most days. I try to do about 5 miles a day. I think studies show that walking is the best way to exercise without giving yourself major hunger cravings.

      It is great exercise.

      Too early to tell but the fact some Davion Mitchell takes are going to blow up in some people”s faces is an intriguing side-plot for this season.

    81. Probably going to carry this one over to the new thread in a bit, but I found this Thibs quote about what he finds impressive about Quentin Grimes — from a Berman of the Post story on how our first-rounder has impressed the coaching staff despite minimal playing time — noteworthy in the context of recent discussions here:

      “Everything,’’ Thibodeau said. “He and Miles, they are going to be good players. It started in the summer league, fall workout and then training camp. When it comes to get in there, get the job done. That’s what I love about both guys. Quentin went in, Miles went in right at the end of the game. Both of them played really well.”

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