Knicks Morning News (2021.09.02)

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  • NY Knicks: Revisiting Julius Randle’s Rank in the NBA – Daily Knicks
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  • How Knicks’ Derrick Rose could be the catalyst for Mitchell Robinson taking his game to the next level – Empire Sports Media
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  • How the Knicks can get the most out of Immanuel Quickley during the 2021-22 season – Empire Sports Media
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    How the Knicks can get the most out of Immanuel Quickley during the 2021-22 season  Empire Sports Media

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    48 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2021.09.02)”

    1. I love the silly season part of the offseason! :D

      Exhibit # 1: “Anthony Edwards has grown two inches in the past year (…) Edwards, who finished second in the Rookie of the Year voting, was 6’4 when Minnesota selected him with the top pick in the 2020 draft. He’s now 6’6 and may be even more versatile than he was last season. (…) Coach Chris Finch is now considering using Edwards as a power forward in smaller lineups.
      Do you remember when Frank was growing one inch each offseason (he first came here at 6’4), and then by the third offseason Knicks fans were wondering if he could play point-forward or something like that? Well, then the NBA decided to mandate official measurements and, surprise, surprise, Frank was measured at 6’4. LOL

      Exhibit # 2: “Scotto reports that the Nets have offered a first-round pick swap in trade talks involving center DeAndre Jordan, but haven’t found any takers.
      A Top5 team can’t get any traction on an offer to swap picks with teams that are way worse than them… who woulda thought? LOL

    2. The Knicks Morning News bot somehow missed the most interesting “Ex-Knick [does something terrible]” story of the day! I will atone for its mistake and summarize:

      Do you all remember finals-MVP Randolph Morris? His signing was a coup by Isiah, way back in the days when Knick GMs buried themeselves under $300,000,000 in dead cap space, limiting them to having to rely on “unconventional moves” to try to pull the team over 30 wins each year. Enter Randolph Morris, who had gone undrafted after his freshman year at KY, returned for his sophomore and junior years, then dropped out, and, because the CBA precluded him from being eligible for the draft a second time, Isiah was able to sign him to a two year contract mid-season. Sadly, the Morris-Marbury pairing wasn’t enough to bring glory to the Garden. But the duo took their talents to Beijing together, and won three championships. And now he doesn’t want to pay taxes on the $13,000,000 he made in China. The end.

    3. Nets signed Milsap, which means they now have to be extra motivated to get Jordan off the roster. If you believe that signing him was necessary for the team to also land Durant and Kyrie, then he’s earned a good chunk of that contract. But it’s funny to think that 1)KD and Kyrie allegedly went to Brooklyn because of the great core Marks had built, and all of those players are now long gone, and 2)KD and Kyrie allegedly also went to Brooklyn because they could team up with their great friend DeAndre there, and now he’s about to be gone.

    4. Yeah the “we just want to play with our friends” excuse for the super teams is a lie. Sure you do, until you realize that your friend is not as good as he was a few years ago and his bloated contract is now keeping you from an easy path to the finals.

      Fuck the Nets.

    5. Owen:
      Not sure how it’s relevant but Rich Paul is in a relationship with, of all people, Adele.

      “but when I call you never seem to be home” is a line from her song Hello, which Nerlens may sympathise with.

    6. there is definitely a significant gap between Mitch and Capela, but it’s as large as the gap between Mitch and the low cost alternatives people seem to think are readily available. The 4 year $48-54mm contract is a fair price and I’d give it to him with no hesitation.

    7. Also, this is nothing but gossip, but… my friend Dante is a trainer for the Brooklyn Nets. We met last night and he brought up the NBA’s announcement regarding home players in NY & SF needing vaccines. He would not name names but he said there are significant players on the Nets who are strongly anti-vax and, in his opinion, will not accept it. He speculated that a few Knicks would feel the same, but only based on what he had heard.

    8. The Nets part of that is not surprising at all, Hubert, given who plays PG for them. The Knicks news isn’t that surprising, either, in that there’s a lot of vaccine resistance in this country in general, and also among athletes and/or the Black community (which has a history of understandably mistrusting the medical community). We already know that Kyrie is unlikely to be swayed by reason, so that should get ugly in a hurry. From our end of things, it’ll be a big test of the culture Leon and Thibs have apparently built: can they get any anti-vax players to just get the shot for the sake of the team?

    9. Hubert:
      Also, this is nothing but gossip, but… my friend Dante is a trainer for the Brooklyn Nets. We met last night and he brought up the NBA’s announcement regarding home players in NY & SF needing vaccines. He would not name names but he said there are significant players on the Nets who are strongly anti-vax and, in his opinion, will not accept it. He speculated that a few Knicks would feel the same, but only based on what he had heard.

      I agree but still think that waiting until preseason starts is not a bad idea. Furthermore, I think teams who need cap space will be willing ot part with Mitch-level guys before PGs, wings and stretch bigs, so if we have to wait until after we have our “big 3″ in place to rustle up a pogo stick rim running 5 it’s not the worst thing in the world. Broken foot bones in high jumpers always worry me, and even before the broken foot Mitch was spraining his ankles all the time. Let’s see if the added weight makes the problem better (can body guys up rather than outjump them) or worse (now even more weight coming down on that foot from 40” vertical).

    10. Mike Vorkunov wrote this a month ago about Mitch, and it seems like a good take:

      The Athletic’s John Hollinger has an axiom he goes by and it seems pretty handy: Actions, not words, are often the greatest tip-off to what might happen. Here, he was talking about free agency but this can figure into most NBA team decisions.

      Let’s use this rubric to try to figure out what the Knicks are doing with Mitchell Robinson because his future seems to be up in the air. The Knicks threw plenty of kind words at Robinson this past season and he did play well, but look at what transpired since January. They were linked heavily to Andre Drummond around the trade deadline. There was a very credible report by the Indianapolis Star’s J. Michael that the Knicks were trying hard to trade for Pacers center Myles Turner. They picked up Robinson’s $1.8 million option for next season, but the Knicks could also have made him a restricted free agent and found a way to wrap him up long-term this summer or offered him an extension. They then agreed to a three-year, $32 million deal with Nerlens Noel — starting center money.

      So what’s up with the Knicks and Robinson? This is conjecture but it’s also easy to think that these are not the actions of a franchise that wants to give ample years and money to Robinson. Robinson would make for a nice trade piece right now with his small salary being easy to slide into any cap sheet and the Knicks still in need of a wing and a guard, and with Taj Gibson back they have depth at center. Obviously, this could be wrong but, as Hollinger says, follow the deeds, not the words.

    11. @ShamsCharania
      Seven-time NBA All-Star LaMarcus Aldridge has been cleared to play again, passing all of the necessary tests, sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium. The Nets are leaders to sign Aldridge, sources said.

      I know the caliber of players is much better, but why are the Nets suddenly going all in on the Steve Mills “sign all the available power forwards” plan?

    12. The Nets have so many dominant wings that it makes sense to me to have them pick up as many useful bigs as they can to just throw at the opponent, especially with Jeff Green now gone.

    13. I could see the Nets using Aldridge at C to play 5 out. They’ll be the highest scoring games of all-time.

    14. The Knicks gave Noel a 2 year deal. If Mitch plays well this year and we want to bring him back we can just trade Nerlens or deal with paying 2 centers for one year.

    15. Hubert:
      Obviously, this could be wrong but, as Hollinger says, follow the deeds, not the words.

      Agreed. However, he’s still here, which says something as well…non-deeds are just as important as deeds. Considering everything, the following are probably true:

      -The Knicks FO (including Thibs) generally really like, but don’t absolutely love Mitch for a variety of reasons we have already discussed.
      -The Drummond stuff was BS, it would have happened if it was real.
      -The Myles Turner stuff was real, and should be because he’s a better and more reliable player than Mitch, even considering the salary differential.
      -Mitch has more to lose than the Knicks; see: Nerlens Noel, so the Knicks are kind of calling his bluff for the time being.

      As I said, I don’t necessarily agree with the FO’s position, but I’m not all that stressed out about the possibility of losing out on him, especially if it’s because Mitch’s team feels like there will a Jarrett Allen deal waiting for him at the end of the year. Some team out there will face the same dilemma in a couple of years and we can capitalize then.

      Honestly, this feels like the same conversation we were having about Julius last year…and I think the outcome will be the same. Mitch will be offered the money and he will take it. Just not right away.

    16. So what’s up with the Knicks and Robinson? This is conjecture but it’s also easy to think that these are not the actions of a franchise that wants to give ample years and money to Robinson. Robinson would make for a nice trade piece right now with his small salary being easy to slide into any cap sheet and the Knicks still in need of a wing and a guard, and with Taj Gibson back they have depth at center. Obviously, this could be wrong but, as Hollinger says, follow the deeds, not the words.

      I’ve been saying that for quite awhile also.

      1. Mitch has a history of being a bit of a flake

      2. Mitch has been injury prone

      3. They don’t lose much when Nerlens is playing C instead

      Sure, Mitch is younger than Nerlens and may have some more upside if he doesn’t flake out or get injured, but if they can get his market value back up and use him as a trade chip (along with the excess picks they accumulated or incinerated (lol), they can create a better team. I’d rather have Nerlens, Taj, Sims and a significant upgrade at another position than 20+ minutes each of Nerlens and Mitch at their combined salaries.
      The only exception would be if Mitch really broke out big. Then I’d probably eventually look to move Nerlens in some kind of deal.

    17. I’m just here for JK47 to weigh in on the Mets’ front office. Or have I overlooked an epic rant in an earlier thread?

      a significant upgrade at another position than 20 minutes each of Nerlens and Mitch at their combined salaries

      Agreed. It seems insane to pay two players $25M to platoon at C, when they are totally incapable of playing on the floor together. The best way to spend cap space is on five starters that can coexist on the floor.

    18. The Honorable Cock Jowles:
      I’m just here for JK47 to weigh in on the Mets’ front office. Or have I overlooked an epic rant in an earlier thread?

      You missed it. To summarize: Baez is a bum. Lindor is a worse bum. Meet the new Mets, same as the old Mets.

    19. Lindor is a crybaby douchebag but at least he can play. Baez isn’t even a good player.

      They need to fire everybody in the FO, especially Sandy Alderson, and start from scratch. I don’t hate the baseball moves they made since BVW got canned, they all made some sense and there’s not a lot you can do when half of your lineup is guys who have always been productive hitters who just aren’t hitting. But personal character-wise, they’ve had nothing but problems. The manager needs to go too, he has never had good control of the clubhouse.

      I think Cohen will clear the decks and start over.

    20. The vax thing is shaping up to be an epic shitshow and if I had to bet now, I’d bet it isn’t enforced against Knick and Net holdouts. They’ll either get some kind of bullshit exemption, or they’ll get together with the FO or something and just lie about whether they’ve gotten it.

      Kind of losing patience with people who don’t get the vaccine ….

    21. I could see the Nets using Aldridge at C to play 5 out. They’ll be the highest scoring games of all-time.

      The brief period they had both Aldridge and Griffin, they looked amazing.

    22. The Hawks are paying Capela, what, $20 million to play 30 minutes a game? I don’t see why $25 million for 48 minutes a game is too crazy, especially because it protects you if either one of them gets hurt. Make the offer, Leon! If Mitch turns it down, then fair enough, but make the offer!

    23. DSJ going to camp with Portland, who seem determined to cycle through as many crappy ex-Knicks as possible.

    24. Brian,

      That is a really good point. You’re paying them basically the same salary because both can and will start and you basically insure that the interior defense is good even if one of them is hurt. And a good interior defense is the foundation for a good defensive team. It doesn’t seem that outrageous to me at all.

      And honestly with Noel’s history of losing out on a big contract bc he thinks he can get a bigger one, I would think if we offer Mitch something like that, it would be hard for him to turn it down. Noel, Schroeder…the NBA has plenty of people who thought they deserved more and passed up a sure thing only to get screwed. If you’re Lebron or Kawhi or you’ve already made life changing money, you can afford to take that gamble. Mitch hasn’t even made 5 million dollars in his career yet (pre TAXES!). He’s gotten hurt. I think Leon has an opportunity here to lock him in at a reasonable deal now.

    25. I don’t see why $25 million for 48 minutes a game is too crazy, especially because it protects you if either one of them gets hurt.

      I agree with this. A big part of the reason most teams don’t go that direction is that they want to mix in a significant amount of downsized lineups as part of their regular rotation. But the Knicks are not going to do that – under Thibs they seem pretty dedicated to the idea of playing a true C, and two true bigs, for 48 minutes a night. If you’re going that direction than Mitch Noel is a reasonable amount of resources to commit to the C position.

      It’s probably not the optimal use of resources, which I personally think would involve using Randle as the backup C (not only reduces the resources needed at the C position but also opens up a real role for Obi) but that’s the kind of team Thibs is building. To the team Thibs wants, getting quality defensive play at C is absolutely crucial – note that everyone expects us to be a good defensive team next year without a single good non-C defender on the entire roster (arguably RJ?).

    26. I have a friend who talks to one of the the Sixers owners (he’s an investor in the place my friend works) and he told my friend that the vaccine discussions with the players were ‘very delicate’.

    27. thenamestsam: note that everyone expects us to be a good defensive team next year without a single good non-C defender on the entire roster

      Have you already forgotten Quentin and Miles? Oh, Summer League was so very long ago…

      Yeah, I know, they’re rookies, which means a) they’ll make tons of rookie mistakes, and b) Thibs won’t play them much. So never mind.

      I do, however, want to add my voice in favor of the 48 minutes of brilliant rim protection. And that each one is the other’s replacement if injury strikes.

    28. We’re out of cap space for the foreseeable future and have plenty of capital to burn before hitting the luxury tax, so I don’t believe there will be an issue with paying both Mitch & Noel.

      At worst, Noel’s year 3 is a club option so we’d only be paying both of them for 1 season.

      Frugality at the C position is less important than accumulating and retaining assets for a trade, especially when the team is already over the cap.

      If we don’t spend money on Mitch, that money evaporates. It won’t go towards signing another player.

    29. Yeah, that’s the other thing, the way that they’ve arranged the payroll, it really doesn’t even help them to not pay Mitch, if he leaves after this year.

    30. Also, I don’t know that I’d call RJ a stopper on the wing, but he’s a guy I’d trust defensively to at least make his opponent work really hard for his points. And Randle has turned out to be a credible defender, albeit less of a rim protector than you’d like for a big man. Noel and Robinson are by far are best defenders, but we have a few other guys who are decent on that end.

    31. what a shock it was last year to see derrick rose being aggressive on defense and getting blocks, steals and fighting over screens, it was like a “who is this guy” kind of moment…

      it’ll be interesting to see kemba and evian perform on defense…

    32. although in the case of kemba and evian, just shooting a good percent, forcing the other team to take the ball out, and giving your club an extra second or so to set up on defense – that helps too…

    33. Brian Cronin:
      The Hawks are paying Capela, what, $20 million to play 30 minutes a game? I don’t see why $25 million for 48 minutes a game is too crazy, especially because it protects you if either one of them gets hurt. Make the offer, Leon! If Mitch turns it down, then fair enough, but make the offer!

      IMO Capela is quite a bit better than either Mitch or Nerlens for his 30 minutes.

      The main point is not whether we should pay both. We should.

      The point is that imo we’d be way better off trading Mitch as part of deal to improve significantly at another position than paying both to split time. If we have a chance to make a move, using MItch as an asset probably makes the most sense.

      Also, I think he’s definitely going to get an offer. He’ll probably be easier to trade with a locked in deal that makes sense.

    34. E, all merc’d out:
      The vax thing is shaping up to be an epic shitshow and if I had to bet now, I’d bet it isn’t enforced against Knick and Net holdouts.They’ll either get some kind of bullshit exemption, or they’ll get together with the FO or something and just lie about whether they’ve gotten it.

      Kind of losing patience with people who don’t get the vaccine ….

      My guess is there will be some sort of rule related to testing; for example, if you don’t get vaccinated you have be tested every day before you do anything on the court.

    35. Deeefense: IMO Capela is quite a bit better than either Mitch or Nerlens for his 30 minutes.

      Strat, nobody is arguing that Capela isn’t better than Mitch and/or Noel. It’s whether 48 minutes of Mitch and Noel is better than 30 minutes of Capela and 18 minutes of Gorgiu Dieng. I think that’s a more interes — holy mother of god, Gorgiu shot 43% from three last year. Never mind.

    36. geo: Kind of losing patience with people who don’t get the vaccine ….
      man, them crazy new yorkers…

      “How about we change places and i start attacking you?” …priceless! LOLOL

    37. Definitely loving that I’ll be able to watch the Knicks at 6pm most nights now that I’m in Nashville!

    38. ***IMO Capela is quite a bit better than either Mitch or Nerlens for his 30 minutes.***

      It’s an interesting way to look at it, but I don’t think it really does justice to the difference. I mean, one great starter is worth more than a platoon of good players. Whether Capela is great or not is up for debate I suppose (Jowles said he was better than (or as good as) Scottie Pippen once, if I recall correctly), but even if he’s not great, he is in a clear class above both Mitch and Noel. If Capela can continue to play in over 80% of his team’s games (as he’s done for his career), then he is simply worth more than a combined duo of fringe starters. Maybe if you could play Noel and Robinson together it would be different, but you can’t, and the talent margine between good and very good is where players earn their money.

    39. “How about we change places and i start attacking you?” …priceless! LOLOL

      this was way back in the early 80’s, one of my most memorable instructors was this not so very military looking major, who happened to be someone whom specialized in people/society/culture within the middle east area (Lebanon in particular)…it was a military art class…he explained it so perfectly about the importance of understanding/knowing the culture/mindset of those you’re in conflict with…

      obviously in that context it’s understanding a culture that’s been going for thousands of years, whereas with the maga and anti-vaxxer fellow citizens, it’s a much less nuanced kind of thing…it’s not hard to peel back the onion on many of those kind of folks’ thought process, or emotions…

      although not the same at all, you can pretty much sum up most of those kind of folks’ arguments with: “Fuck you, I won’t do what you tell me”

      while i myself completely appreciate the sentiment, not so useful for a society and sharing land, air and water…

      speaking of which – the smithsonian channel has a fun short doc series entitled: Age of Humans out right now…

      if i suddenly decide to start living much healthier – i might actually make it to the 10 billion mark…probably not, but, who knows…

    40. I just continue to be amazed at how many people are this hesitant about the vaccine especially 8 months after it’s been out and literally hundreds of millions of people have gotten it. There can’t possibly be a cover up of bad sad effects with that many people taking it. You would think pro athletes would be terrified of getting covid bc it can literally reduce your king capacity for the rest of your life if you get a bad case. The vaccine makes you feel kind of shitty for half a day.

    41. Early morning musings: I wonder if Hubert is right in that Mitch’s camp is thinking “Mitch has been involved in too many trade rumors and they signed Nerlens for starter’s money, so why sign a value deal here when we are just gonna be traded afterwards, maybe to somewhere he doesn’t want to be? Why not wait until after the season and sign where we want to be, possibly for a lot more money?” There’s an injury risk, but he’s young enough to bet on himself. Maybe he’d like to hook up with Zion in New Orleans to be closer to home.

      Well at the very worst, we have him locked up on a value deal for this season….hopefully mgmt will offer him the $50+ mill deal and he will take it, but if not, not the end of the world. 32 days to preseason game 1!

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