Knicks Morning News (2021.08.24)

  • Balancing on the Contention Tightrope Without Jeopardizing Future Competitiveness – The Knicks Wall
    [theknickswall.com] — Tuesday, August 24, 2021 6:42:37 AM

    Balancing on the Contention Tightrope Without Jeopardizing Future Competitiveness  The Knicks Wall

  • Ethan Sherwood on Zion to the Knicks rumors ? “You’re not supposed to know that ESPN wants this to happen” – Basketball Network
    [www.basketballnetwork.net] — Tuesday, August 24, 2021 5:55:11 AM

    Ethan Sherwood on Zion to the Knicks rumors ? “You’re not supposed to know that ESPN wants this to happen”  Basketball Network

  • Dwayne Bacon no sure thing to make Knicks roster – New York Post
    [nypost.com] — Tuesday, August 24, 2021 12:28:47 AM

    Dwayne Bacon no sure thing to make Knicks roster  New York Post

  • Knicks open to extending beefed-up Mitchell Robinson before season – New York Post
    [nypost.com] — Monday, August 23, 2021 7:53:00 PM

    Knicks open to extending beefed-up Mitchell Robinson before season  New York Post

  • The New York Knicks Have Extended an Embarrassing Streak That’s Lasted More Than 20 Years – Sportscasting
    [www.sportscasting.com] — Monday, August 23, 2021 7:17:46 PM

    The New York Knicks Have Extended an Embarrassing Streak That’s Lasted More Than 20 Years  Sportscasting

  • NY Knicks: Reacting to a proposed Andrew Wiggins to NY trade – Daily Knicks
    [dailyknicks.com] — Monday, August 23, 2021 2:40:00 PM

    NY Knicks: Reacting to a proposed Andrew Wiggins to NY trade  Daily Knicks

  • New York Knicks Sign Former Florida State Guard MJ Walker t – SLAM Online
    [www.slamonline.com] — Monday, August 23, 2021 12:36:45 PM

    New York Knicks Sign Former Florida State Guard MJ Walker t  SLAM Online

  • Is Immanuel Quickley a true point guard, and how much does that really matter? – Posting and Toasting
    [www.postingandtoasting.com] — Monday, August 23, 2021 11:59:28 AM

    Is Immanuel Quickley a true point guard, and how much does that really matter?  Posting and Toasting

  • New York Knicks: Player Grades For Summer League – Daily Knicks
    [dailyknicks.com] — Monday, August 23, 2021 10:00:00 AM

    New York Knicks: Player Grades For Summer League  Daily KnicksKnicks discussed teaming Kemba Walker, Kevin Durant in 2019  New York Post 3 reasons the Knicks will eclipse their 42.5 win total  ClutchPointsKemba Walker said it was ‘pretty close’ he, Durant came to Knicks in 2019  NBC SportsKnicks’ Kemba Walker gushes over Derrick Rose, ‘he’s such a great dude’  Empire Sports MediaView Full Coverage on Google News

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    117 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2021.08.24)”

    1. A lot of the supposed rationales are fair and understandable
      (the one I don’t get is the “no use for the room exception”, just as I don’t get the “we don’t like anybody in this draft so we kicked the 19th pick can to 2022” that I read somewhere, but that’s just me).

      What surprised me was that the deal was announced by many sources to be for a 1-year minimum and at the end was the first one this year that “when official” become “worst” (read: longer, albeit with a team option, and more expensive).

      I love Taj, he’s the definition of professionalism, he’s underrated only because of his age and I’m very happy he’s around our youngsters, plus he has skills, even on offense (often overlooked).
      There are worst way to use money than giving it to Taj, for sure.

      And kudos to Brock for his cap acrobatics that help us stuffing this roster with so much depth.

    2. Alan: A non-snarky question: who could we have spent that money on if we weren’t going to hand Taj the extra cash?

      It’s a really good question, and why I think “he’s worth the money” is a fine answer. Taj gave strong rotation-level play last year, and in a “use it or lose it” scenario, that’s pretty much what you hope for. Now maybe someone comes along who is more worth the money, but you have to think that whoever that is must have a serious flaw to be available at this point and at that price. Taj’s flaw is old age, but beyond that, he’s a .195 WS48/1.4 BPM player who can competently back up 2 positions and play 20+mpg if you need him to.Not to mention his connection with Thibs, his popularity as a Ft. Greene product, and his willingness to be an enthusiastic old head on the bench when not playing.

    3. Alan: A non-snarky question: who could we have spent that money on if we weren’t going to hand Taj the extra cash?

      A non-snarky answer: could we have waited for some buyouts in march? I don’t remember if the room has an expiring date.

    4. Max: And kudos to Brock for his cap acrobatics that help us stuffing this roster with so much depth.

      Obviously it’s a star-driven league and we are going to get out-starred by the true contenders, but this team will be a handful for any team out there. Barring catastrophic injury, it should be a very entertaining season with lots of home wins and few blowout losses. The biggest concern is if both Rose and Kemba are hampered by injury, what’s plan B? Vildoza? McBride? IQ? Burks/Fournier? Julius/RJ?

    5. I’d guess that the Knicks motive is valuing the increased salary to help match salaries in trades more than they value the possibility of picking up a waived player.

      Waived players are usually role players for contenders and our team is already flush with role players. Trades will get us real difference makers.

      The FO also seems reputation conscious so perhaps they want to reward Taj.

      Personally, I would have favored keeping the room to pickup a PG if Kemba & Rose both go down and the others don’t step up.

    6. It’s also possible another team offered the lux exception to Taj prior to us finalizing the deal so we needed to up our ante. But it certainly seems like we just ran out of roster spots.

    7. this is the same situation as brunson right?

      Close, but not exactly, in that we have Mitch under contract for four years, and they only signed Brunson for three. And Dallas is limited in what they can pay him. We just don’t seem like we’ll be in position to swoop in and outbid them for Brunson next summer.

    8. The 4/51M numbers for Mitch include 5% yearly increases.

      The $12M figure should only be required for year 1, then allow the normal yearly increases. I’m not looking it up because we’re just speculating but pretty sure that’s right.

    9. Close, but not exactly, in that we have Mitch under contract for four years, and they only signed Brunson for three. And Dallas is limited in what they can pay him. We just don’t seem like we’ll be in position to swoop in and outbid them for Brunson next summer.

      No, Brunson is in the same situation as Mitch, where he can only be extended at what is prooooobably a discounted rate, and then he’s an unrestricted free agent. Their problem is the same as the Knicks in that they never get restricted free agency for Brunson, which is tough.

      If Marks says Brunson can get $54 or so million, I guess I believe him, in which case that’s Mitch’s limit, too. So the $12 million is right, they can just give 8% raises per year on that, which gets you to around $54 million ($51 million if it’s 5% raises).

    10. The 4/51M numbers for Mitch include 5% yearly increases.

      The $12M figure should only be required for year 1, then allow the normal yearly increases. I’m not looking it up because we’re just speculating but pretty sure that’s right.

      the cba says 8% of the first year of the extended term.

      Close, but not exactly, in that we have Mitch under contract for four years, and they only signed Brunson for three. And Dallas is limited in what they can pay him.

      no brunson signed a 4-year deal as well and they’ve guaranteed his year 4

    11. Yeah it should be 8% because of bird rights. But Mark’s number must include 5% for non-bird rights to get to $51M, but he’s wrong.

    12. So that makes the Timelord contract make even more sense. They basically gave him the max extension that he could have gotten had he been a second rounder. So yes, just offer Mitch that and get this shit done.

    13. Yeah it should be 8% because of bird rights. But Mark’s number must include 5% for non-bird rights to get to $51M, but he’s wrong.

      It’s weird that he got the Brunson contract right, but not the Mitch one when they’re the same contract.

    14. I thought bringing back Taj was a no brainer and after the season he had last year the price was more than fair. Mitch missed a lot of time last year and has had occasional issues in the past. Noel has knees that require some rest from time to time. I’d expect that we are going to need a good 3rd string C from time to time. We know Taj can handle it, Thibs loves him. Taj loves playing in NY, and he’s a great vet to have around the team helping Mitch and the other young players. Easy signing.

    15. One remaining question is: what are the plans for Kevin Knox? There doesn’t seem to be a rotation spot open even for an unlikely improved Knox and doesn’t seem to be a trade market for him. If Obi or Julius need rest or get tweaked, seems like Taj would get the nod.

    16. also of note … richaun holmes also signed for 4/55… who is both much older and much worse than mitch has been…. so the inflation for rim running bigs has been well established and this is the new market rate….. is 14mm going to impact our cap in 2023? factoring in the randle and rj extensions and now fournier i think that’s ~100mil? i’ll let the cap experts get at that….

      good teamwork fellas…

    17. The litmus test of being hateful (racist, sexist, homophobic, etc.) isn’t whether the (potential) offender and their group of acquaintances isn’t offended by it. It isn’t whether there was intent or not. It’s whether a reasonable number of people are offended. For example: if you say “girls” and your adult female friends are OK with that, but some other women aren’t — IT’S OFFENSIVE! PERIOD!

      I’m not smart enough to know what the standard should be, but IMO this is a tough standard. I was brought up on “sticks and stones may break my bones…”. That was probably too permissive. But there are also some over the top extremely sensitive people and others that imo are just plain nuts that will make a sport of squashing all but their own personally approved language if that’s the standard. IMO sometimes you just have to toughen up a little, understand where the person is coming from, and cut them some slack if you are the “rare” person that is offended by some term or phrase they used.

      OK back to Taj and Kemba…

    18. ***I’m not smart enough to know what the standard should be***

      You’re smart enough to know that Mike hosts this site for all of us to engage in and enjoy, right? Then you’re smart enough to know that the standard for decorum should be whatever he says it should be.

    19. Then you’re smart enough to know that the standard for decorum should be whatever he says it should be.

      then why isn’t it ever enforced?

    20. As far as other room exception targets go, for the life of me I’ve never been able to understand why James Ennis can’t seem to get a foothold anywhere. He’d be a much more capable backup to RJ than Knox and/or Bacon. I think our depth is a strength overall but we’re a little weak on wing depth specifically.

      Not a huge deal, obviously. That’s just who I had in mind.

    21. You’re smart enough to know that Mike hosts this site for all of us to engage in and enjoy, right? Then you’re smart enough to know that the standard for decorum should be whatever he says it should be.

      I have no problem with the rules here. I was making a more general comment about our society.

      Recently I’ve been watching some comedy routines from my youth on Facebook. Most of those guys would be unemployed now. Some of it even made me cringe. Again, I don’t know where the societal line should be, but I personally still enjoy a good Italian joke even though I’m Italian. I just won’t tell any here.

    22. I think I once researched Mitch’s maximum possible extension and came to the conclusion it was 4/$54M, FWIW. I don’t remember exactly why but I think that’s it.

      Given everything else we’ve done, I’d offer him that after trying to get him to sign a smaller deal. I might want to hold firm on a team option for the 4th year, but I don’t see him becoming an albatross on that deal. These are age 23-26 seasons, so we’re not taking on a ton of risk IMO.

    23. Preseason schedule is out, first game October 5th at home vs the Pacers,
      then at Wizards, Pistons at home, Wizards at home.

      3 of 4 games at MSG.

      Can’t wait for the season to start…

    24. I have the impression that Z-Man tries really hard to act “civilized” in here while djphan needs a 3 months KB-rest/break and that’s why pleads for a ban every 5hours!

      My thoughts
      3 months off won’t change much
      Restrained Zman ain’t Zman

      Solution
      djphan and Zman should meet in person and wrestle till…

    25. I am not sure I am understanding this offensive comment at all. It is not like djphan’s comment was a random comment in the blog. It was a comment aimed at the people that thought that getting Kemba to sign for two years was worth of praise. He compared those posters to the collective of people that fellates somebody else. He did so, because he wanted to offend other posters on this blog, and in his head, that collective is probably shameful. I do not know whether he was thinking of gay men/women/sexual workers or other collective, or whether third people belonging to those collectives should be offended. But to me, it is clear that djphan wanted to offend people on this board.

      And then, we go on a hypocrital tirade of posts that he was not trying to offend anyone…

    26. thenoblefacehumper:
      I think I once researched Mitch’s maximum possible extension and came to the conclusion it was 4/$54M, FWIW. I don’t remember exactly why but I think that’s it.

      Given everything else we’ve done, I’d offer him that after trying to get him to sign a smaller deal. I might want to hold firm on a team option for the 4th year, but I don’t see him becoming an albatross on that deal. These are age 23-26 seasons, so we’re not taking on a ton of risk IMO.

      Agreed, but I’d still be a bit leery until I see him out on the court in real games. I guess it’s not the biggest risk in the world but he’s been pretty injury prone imho, the ankles, knees, and now feet have all been issues. If they do lock him up before the season I’m okay with it, just worried that the leg bones/joints are a bit brittle, especially when carrying the extra weight.

    27. On other news Emmanuel Mudiay signed with Zalgiris Kaunas, I’ll see play him in Euroleague.

      Ditto for former Nets Mike James, who’s back with CSKA Moscow (where he “interrupted” his contract to join Brooklyn).
      I think he still has an NBA-escape clause in his contract.

      As of today no euronews (or eurorumors) about Frank.

    28. Reposted-Moderation awaiting free

      I have the impression that Z-Man tries really hard to act “civilized” in here while djphan needs a 3 months KB-rest/break and that’s why pleads for a ban every 5hours!

      My thoughts:
      3 months off won’t change much
      Restrained Zman ain’t Zman

      Solution:
      djphan and Zman should meet in person and wrestle

    29. It is not like djphan’s comment was a random comment in the blog.

      this is absolutely a mischaracterization…. and you’re injecting and assuming about what i said and what my thought process was…. the act of fellating someone is not exclusive to any one group esp when i’m referring to the act itself being equivalent to something… if i said kiss my ass is that equally as offensive? that is the same exact thing….

      so no i’m not gonna be called a homophobe by people with an axe to grind…. i made the effort to ask actual people’s opinion instead of just flippantly calling people a homophobe cause i’m losing an argument… random neutral gaybros agreed given complete context:

      Wow they were reaching real hard

      I personally don’t give a shit but obviously the most sensitive are going to be the loudest when it comes to what words are not acceptable for use.

      It’s like the saying to kiss someone’s ass idk what the big deal is tbh

      Not homophobic.

      The person who called you a homophobe is a whiny dullard looking to paint themselves as the victim or alternatively looking for some points. Does that answer your question?

      The word ‘fellate’ is sexuality-neutral, it’s not homophobic, so it’s a misplaced criticism of you.

      https://www.reddit.com/r/askgaybros/comments/padvgd/is_it_offensive_to_use_the_word_fellate_when/

      so save the pearl clutching.. you people don’t get to label others because you’re overly sensitive or losing an argument…. if anything people should apologize for throwing around homophobe so casually… where is the uproar over that?

      you’d really have to be in the room to know whether grandpa was more of a bossy bottom or a butch top. you can’t just reason your way into it.

      here’s actual misappropriated homosexual acts… where’s the ‘standard of decorum’ here?

    30. I know a lot about fellatio (even if I usually prefer to use some funny italian words instead of that too-cold-for-me definition) but I had to use Urban Dictionary to understand the meaning of “bossy bottom” and “butch top”.

      This is why I like this blog, I always learn something.

    31. djphan, what i am saying is that you are going to great lengths to bother people in this blog. Are you really that obsessed on being right, that the rest of the posters of this blog dont matter? Your opinions are being acknowledged and talked about, even if not every poster agrees with them, do you really have to call other people out time after time? Are you really telling me that you didnt want to belittle the posters who praised the FO with the “fellating” comment?

      I am very aware that other posters dont let go, either (and yes, I am thinking in Z-man), but I find your posts particularly meant to sow discord. I am sorry if I have misunderstood your posts or your tone, but in this particular case, it is pretty clear to me that you are in the wrong. Please apologize and move on.

    32. Hi everyone. I am new to commenting on this blog, but I am a long time reader of the posts and comments. Thanks to all. I decided to participate. Anyway, I wanted to add I like having Taj back. Like a lot of you mentioned, he brought good defense and leadership. I think it is important for our young players to have some leaders and vets on the team. Taj, Kemba, Rose, Randle, etc. I believe help the team beyond their stats and play on the court!

    33. Please apologize and move on.

      i dropped it.. you dropped in and started making accusations again.. and i’m sorry i’m not that guy pal… there’s no way i’m apologizing especially when i put in the most effort here to actually engage with the group of people i supposedly slurred…

      yes i matter too… and i happily drop any of the few dozen times i’ve had to drop it but keep getting roped in by z-man and others that want to get in their jabs and kick a guy when everyone else is piling on… i’m just not going to take that lying down….

      and if i broke the standard of decorum here because of that but all you guys get to sit in your ivory tower… then please ban me…

    34. Welcome aboard Nickerbocker3!

      Since you mentioned Taj I’d like to add that i believe he added toughness (despite Atlanta proved that wasn’t much) or as i like to call it: Balls

      Concerning Balls i truly believe that part of Bucks championship ride was based on PJTucker’s, BPortis’s, Jrue’s Toughness/Balls asides Freak/Middleton bigdog game of course.

    35. howdy nickerbocker3…glad to see you kicking in on the conversation :)

      absolutely agree, we do seem o have a good mix of players at different stages in their career…i’m hoping this year we get a lot more chances to see mitch out on the court, with noel backing him up and taj being used more as a back up power forward…

      all the talk about mitch has me really excited to see him match up with embiid…i mean embiid is pretty much an unstoppable force when he’s healthy, but, i wanna see how mitch does guarding him…

    36. the best way I can figure the Taj situation… he earned a salary greater than the vet minimum based on his play last year, but he was willing to sign for the vet minimum to come back bc he loved being here. So when we had the chance to pay him, he paid him what he was worth instead of making him take less. It’s an unusual course of action, but I think it’s sensible and fair.

    37. I read “proposed Andrew Wiggins trade to NY” and nearly did a spit take.

      I sure hope that’s just some idle speculation.

    38. Thanks everyone for the welcomes! I have learned a lot about basketball and players through a lot of you. I wonder if Taj will try to shoot more 3s this year. I noticed he took some last year, not with great success, but maybe he will extend his game some. I know it is hard to do at his stage of his career.

    39. iserp: I am very aware that other posters dont let go, either (and yes, I am thinking in Z-man),

      Hi iserp, glad to have you back!

    40. This FO may ain’t the flashier around but till now seems as Fair as Hell to players and this behaviour is part of a trusted culture imo.
      (slurp slurp) ;-p

    41. I wonder if Taj will try to shoot more 3s this year.

      that’s what’s so interesting about myles turner, he shoots nearly 5 threes a game…he doesn’t shoot them that consistently great, but, there’s a chance he could possibly shoot in the high thirties percentage wise…having a center like that really opens up the floor for the whole team…

    42. Welcome Nickerbocker3!

      I too am a longtime follower of the blog/recently started posting. Glad to have you aboard!

    43. #it’s life DJ, laugh at it and keep it moving, cuz there’s always more shit coming at you from around the corner…a sense of humor though will definitely help you keep some of your sanity as you age…#

      This and more like this!
      If we can’t fuck around, mock and roast each other’s takes in a sports blog where we’re in for years then we’re taking ourselves too seriously and we re definitely going the wrong way and….just fuk it!

      Chill people
      Respect yourselves, respect each other and just have fun

      But also Fuk your pride,anger, jealousy egos from time to time!!!

    44. Knew Your Nicks:
      This FO may ain’t the flashier around but till now seems as Fair as Hell to players and this behaviour is part of a trusted culture imo.
      (slurp slurp) ;-p

      Laugh out loud funny!

    45. richaun holmes also signed for 4/55… who is both much older and much worse than mitch has been….

      Are we sure Mitch is much better than Richuan Holmes? I feel like everyone was so focused on Mitch’s foul rate last season (and credit to him for making progress in the regard) that he kind of got a pass for his production falling off a cliff in the move to starting/more significant minutes.

      PER: 23.5 -> 17.7
      WS/48 .230 ->.192
      BPM 2.9 -> 0.9

      It’s possible that this was just a bump in the road on the way to him mixing bonkers per-minute production with the bigger role and I would still happily extend him at 4/54 because I think the upside is greater than the downside at that price but I think it’s still a pretty open question whether Mitch is a cut above other guys in that price range or not.

    46. Hi Nickerbocker3!

      Hubert, it’s a good look and I can see Taj as a future FO/coaching staff guy. There may have been better ways to spend the money, but this is at worst a placeholder for cap space in a bigger deal and a best a value contract for a still good player.

    47. Doing that obnoxious posting from the last thread, because I’m rather slow on the new system providing us a new thread every day. From the WashPost, on national TV appearances this year:

      New York Knicks: All it took was one halfway decent season and one respectable offseason to vault the Knicks back onto center stage. Julius Randle and company will make 22 national appearances this season after being penciled in for just one during the first half of the 2020-21 season. Although the Knicks still seem to be a cut below the East’s top contenders when it comes to both firepower and experience, Kemba Walker’s arrival and the lively Madison Square Garden crowd should make for compelling TV.

      Edit: to put that into perspective, Hawks get 14, Suns 23, and Zion gets 10.

    48. First off, welcome, Nickerbocker3! We don’t bite. Well, most of us don’t. Maybe some of us don’t. Really, Farfa is the only one it’s probably safe to completely put down your guard around, and he’s been absent for a bit. (Hoping he’s okay.)

      thenamestsam: Are we sure Mitch is much better than Richuan Holmes? I feel like everyone was so focused on Mitch’s foul rate last season (and credit to him for making progress in the regard) that he kind of got a pass for his production falling off a cliff in the move to starting/more significant minutes.

      PER: 23.5 -> 17.7
      WS/48 .230 ->.192
      BPM 2.9 -> 0.9

      It’s possible that this was just a bump in the road on the way to him mixing bonkers per-minute production with the bigger role and I would still happily extend him at 4/54 because I think the upside is greater than the downside at that price but I think it’s still a pretty open question whether Mitch is a cut above other guys in that price range or not.

      We talked about this last season before Mitch got hurt the first time, thenamestam. The eye test consensus seemed to be that fouling less also meant fewer blocks, but that Mitch was playing much better defense overall, because Thibs, Payne, and Bryant had taught him a lot of fundamental stuff that he never learned from Fizdale and Miller. Sort of the “Robin Lopez doesn’t get many rebounds himself, but the team rebounds really well when he’s on the court” trickle-down effect.

      Is that guy worth $11-12 mil a year? Especially on a team already paying roughly that to a similar (if inferior offensively) player in Noel? I don’t know. But I think a healthy Mitch will be worth that contract, and be moveable to other teams on such a deal.

    49. I love Mitch. I am sure that he’s lobbying for a raise on social media. Berman picked up on that or maybe someone from the Knicks leaked something through him so that it gets to Mitch around his agents. We will never know the truth but it seems clear that someone or several someones are trying to control the narrative around his contract situation.

      Putting money aside, the overriding question becomes, “how do we feel about our center position for the next few years”.

      We have Mitch, Noel, Taj & Sims. What this group is missing (based on past performance) is someone that can thump with the likes of Embid, Aldridge, Cousins, Gobert, Ayton, the Lopez brothers and Jokic. Of course, according to Mitch, he’s no longer a light-weight sting bean. The other thing we don’t have is a center that can stretch the floor.

      Noel and Taj are what they are and they are more than fine. I’ve always advocated having a starter and a backup center that are rim protectors. Taj isn’t an elite rim protector, and he’s old, but as others have said, he’s a great 3rd center / power forward.

      So it comes down to Mitch. I’m sensing a motivated and committed player. I haven’t seen him post (yet) a catch-and-shoot 3’s video yet but if he’s bulked up and can handle Embid down low, then we have something.

      As for Sims, he has some development and working with the guys ahead of him and a coaching staff will help him develop into a really good all-around center. It’s strange for us to have the luxury of time where Sims is a depth piece. Sims has shown me enough for me to feel optimistic about his potential but it can wait until there’s an injury or Taj retires.

    50. Raven: From the WashPost, on national TV appearances this year:

      New York Knicks: All it took was one halfway decent season and one respectable offseason to vault the Knicks back onto center stage. Julius Randle and company will make 22 national appearances this season after being penciled in for just one during the first half of the 2020-21 season. Although the Knicks still seem to be a cut below the East’s top contenders when it comes to both firepower and experience, Kemba Walker’s arrival and the lively Madison Square Garden crowd should make for compelling TV.

      Edit: to put that into perspective, Hawks get 14, Suns 23, and Zion gets 10.

      To have accomplished so much in so little time at such low cost to the future is pretty impressive, especially for a rookie POBO. Not that there haven’t been hiccups and quibbles, but the perception of the team is clearly way better than it has been in many years.

    51. I love Mitch and that’s a reasonable contract, so sign me up with no hesitation.

      Also he’s worthy of being the guy to break our no-second-contract-for-any-draftee-since-charlie-ward streak.

    52. Re: the Taj deal

      I cast my vote for rationale #2 laid out by Alan in the previous thread (signal to players/agents that if you come here, get with the program, and play well, you’ll be rewarded)

      That would be in keeping with the underlying vision that appears to be guiding the FO in many of its moves made this offseason, i.e. making MSG a more attractive destination for the league’s top talent.

      The guess here is that Rose’s background as an agent has made him keenly aware of how moves like this are perceived around the league. If he indeed believes that this can be one additional inducement that could end up tilting the scales in favor of the NYK when the next big name shakes loose, I can see how he would regard that as the best use of the $ involved, regardless of how well he thinks Taj will ultimately perform.

    53. Welcome Nickerbocker3! Reading your comments i’d bet some money that you’re Taj’s wife trying to promote your husband! LOL

    54. Thank you to the Knickerblogger Gods, the tone of this thread is good again, yesterday i gave up and stopped reading it at some point.

    55. #Welcome Nickerbocker3! Reading your comments i’d bet some money that you’re Taj’s wife trying to promote your husband! LOL#

      Sorry to say it but your comment is definitely royphobic! It’s crystal clear that you feel threatened about losing the KB-Rookie of the Year award and started attacking!!!
      ;-PP

    56. About Mitch, i think 4/54M guaranteed is too much, maybe 4/48M and then 1.5M AAV in bonuses (750K if he makes all-defense, 375K if he plays more than 60 games, 375K if he shoots FTs .700 or better). If he makes the bonuses, he gets to the 4/54M deal. Let him work on getting it, he looks like a guy that needs incentives.

    57. Knew Your Nicks: Sorry to say it but your comment is definitely royphobic! It’s crystal clear that you feel threatened about losing the KB-Rookie of the Year award and started attacking!!!
      ;-P

      LOL, that’s funny. ;D
      But, btw, i’m not a rookie anymore, i’m from the 2020 class. :P

    58. Count de Pennies: The guess here is that Rose’s background as an agent has made him keenly aware of how moves like this are perceived around the league. If he indeed believes that this can be one additional inducement that could end up tilting the scales in favor of the NYK when the next big name shakes loose, I can see how he would regard that as the best use of the $ involved, regardless of how well he thinks Taj will ultimately perform.

      This makes total sense, although I do think that the FO assumed that Taj would perform reasonably well relative to the contract.

    59. #LOL, that’s funny. ;D
      But, btw, i’m not a rookie anymore, i’m from the 2020 class. :P#

      Shiiiit man!
      Feels like yesterday when you started posting!
      Time truly flies!

      And definitely waits for no one…RIP CWatts

    60. Keith Richards probably did 10 times the amount of blow, heroin and drinking that Charlie Watts did, and he keeps going and going. A physiological marvel.

    61. d-mar:
      Keith Richards probably did 10 times the amount of blow, heroin and drinking that Charlie Watts did, and he keeps going and going. A physiological marvel.

      Exactly because of Keith’s behavior, i kind of thought they would beat death, but unfortunately Charlie didn’t. RIP Charlie Watts.

    62. Shed no tears for Mr. Watts. Any man who is able to keep on doing what he loves up til the day of his death can be said to be truly blessed. The man was still playing drums for one of the most beloved rock n roll bands of all time at the age of 80! Fair fucks to ya, Charlie and RIP.

    63. We talked about this last season before Mitch got hurt the first time, thenamestam.

      Yeah I largely agree with your post. I do think he was improved on D last year. If you go by opponent ORating (and I realize this is reductionist – there’s a lot of other factors involved) opponents had a 111.3 with Noel on court, 106.5 with Taj and 109.2 with Mitch. That doesn’t suggest to me that he’s a game changing defensive force, but those other guys are pretty darn good too and being roughly the same level as them makes him a very good defensive C.

      The question to me is about what he is beyond that, because, to continue comparing him to Noel and Taj, both those guys have been (and continue to be) available for relative peanuts year after year. I know some people think he’s a big offensive improvement over those guys but he also set a career low in Usage and TS% last year. I wish we would’ve gotten to see him in the Rose-ier half of the season because I’m still holding out some hope for more by pairing him with better guard play but I definitely prefer Richuan Holmes (for example) to him offensively because while they’re both PnR Cs, Holmes has a lot more versatility to his game – he can catch the ball on the short roll and make a floater and do some very limited playmaking. Mitch cannot do any of that; when he’s posting an NBA record TS%, who cares, but when he’s posting a totally normal TS% as he did last year then it starts to look like more of a problem.

      Anyway I don’t want to become the bash Mitch guy because as I said I would give him the discussed extension, and I like both the player he already is and the player he could still become if he hits some of his upside; I just think his warts sometimes get overlooked because his rookie year was the lone bright spot during a very, very bleak season of Knicks basketball.

    64. Top 5 Stones Tunes:

      1. Can’t you hear me knocking
      2. Time waits for no one
      3. Monkey Man
      4. Gimme Shelter
      5. Shattered

    65. Can’t think of a more instantly recognizable drum intro than honky tonk women. You know it’s Charlie from the first wallop. RIP

    66. d-mar
      August 24, 2021 at 2:10 pm
      Keith Richards probably did 10 times the amount of blow, heroin and drinking that Charlie Watts did, and he keeps going and going. A physiological marvel.

      Keith will outlive us all. Funny quote I read about him:
      “Covid-19 caught Keith Richards and died.”

    67. Jack Bauer:
      d-mar
      August 24, 2021 at 2:10 pm
      Keith Richards probably did 10 times the amount of blow, heroin and drinking that Charlie Watts did, and he keeps going and going. A physiological marvel.

      Keith will outlive us all. Funny quote I read about him:
      “Covid-19 caught Keith Richards and died.”

      lol!

    68. Are we sure Mitch is much better than Richuan Holmes? I feel like everyone was so focused on Mitch’s foul rate last season (and credit to him for making progress in the regard) that he kind of got a pass for his production falling off a cliff in the move to starting/more significant minutes.

      mitch isn’t a finished product and there were some cause for some concern in some of the #s but a lot of that has to do with the role he was playing on offense and just plain variance… he wasn’t getting the ball as much in the kinds of situations he usually flourished in and that probably had to do with the guard play (career low of % of fg assisted along with the other numbers)….

      he is four years younger than holmes and holmes is a nice player and while there’s no guarantee that mitch will continue to surpass him… he’s also put up a couple more seasons better than anything holmes did ever… that means his upside is just much higher…

      in any case.. yes mitch can have exactly the kind of season that he did in 31 games last year this year.. but he also played 4x the amount of minutes at much better production and it’s a bit morbid to assume a 23yo is in terminal decline…. so i would imagine he’s better than he was last year which could happen in all sorts of ways… if that’s the case.. yes he’s a lot better than holmes and it wouldn’t take much for that to happen even if we’re anchoring on last year…

    69. Hubert: the best way I can figure the Taj situation… he earned a salary greater than the vet minimum based on his play last year, but he was willing to sign for the vet minimum to come back bc he loved being here. So when we had the chance to pay him, he paid him what he was worth instead of making him take less. It’s an unusual course of action, but I think it’s sensible and fair.

      I agree.

      I know salaries and options matter, but I don’t obsess over those things unless a deal is potentially crippling. I think I was overweighting all that. Sometimes you want a certain player or certain flexibility and it’s OK to not get a great deal or to even overpay a little. You just want to avoid the crippling deals. IMO Taj is worth what we paid. And if it is true he was willing to take the vet minimum if need be to help the team, then he doubly deserves to get a fair salary if we could afford to pay him. Other players will also see how we treated him. The goodwill can’t hurt.

    70. It will be interesting to see how much better Mitch is with competent point guard play, which he’s never really had with the Knicks

    71. I see the plus sides of Mitch getting stronger, but I do wonder whether it’s going to impact his quickness and ability to switch on defense in the P&R. I think I might have preferred him to expand his range a little more on offense than getting stronger, but maybe he’ll do both.

    72. Count de Pennies:
      Shed no tears for Mr. Watts. Any man who is able to keep on doing what he loves up til the day of his death can be said to be truly blessed. The man was still playing drums for one of the most beloved rock n roll bands of all time at the age of 80! Fair fucks to ya, Charlie and RIP.

      +1. Then there’s the old theory that when we grieve for someone’s death, we are in part grieving for our own aging and impending mortality. That might be especially true of celebrity deaths.

      Then there’s the death of pets. Our 16 year-old maltipoo had to be put to sleep last week. We’re still pretty bummed about that.

    73. TheClashFan: Then there’s the death of pets. Our 16 year-old maltipoo had to be put to sleep last week. We’re still pretty bummed about that.

      I wish you hadn’t said that, my 13.5yo cockapoo is showing signs of decline and I dread that horrible but inevitable day. And that goes double for my wife and kids. Very truly sorry for your loss, Clash.

    74. Z-Man, I just want to note that your post could be read in a very different way, as I first did…

    75. Top 5 Stones Tunes:

      1. Can’t you hear me knocking
      2. Time waits for no one
      3. Monkey Man
      4. Gimme Shelter
      5. Shattered

      1. Moonlight Mile
      2. Satisfaction
      3. Can’t You Hear Me Knocking
      4. Gimme Shelter
      5. Let It Loose

      But way too many huge songs to limit it to 5. You could fit a triple LP with their best songs and have every one be a banger.

    76. noel’s lawsuit against rich paul claims a few interesting things, including that brett brown told him they were trying to make an offer (when he signed with okc) and rich paul just never returned phone calls. he also says it was paul who originally convinced him to switch agents and turn down the mavs $70m and take the qo instead. they met sitting next to each other at ben simmons birthday.

    77. The guitarist in my first real band loved the Stones, so we spent a lot of time listening to their golden period albums – Beggars Banquet, Let It Bleed, Sticky Fingers, Exile. Basically the Mick Taylor years. Charlie was so key in their sound, loved his finesse. Somehow I’m not surprised he went before Keith… The Corona joke is on the money there.

      We had a theory that you can’t be considered a great band unless you have at least 5 classic songs that will stand the test of time. Back in the 80s, there weren’t many bands who made the threshold, but the Beatles and Stones had dozens each. I don’t know how you’d really choose just 5.

      …Though I guess Gimme Shelter and Can’t You Hear Me Knocking would be on a lot of lists….

    78. Yeah, Raven, it was not my most eloquent post, but I truly love dogs and mine in particular.

    79. Fave 5 R.Stones
      2000 light years from home
      In another land
      She’s a rainbow
      Gimme Shelter
      Time waits for no one

      Sorry to hear Clashfan

    80. 1. Satisfaction
      2. Honky Tonk Women
      3. Mother’s little helper
      4. Paint it, black
      5. Wild Horses

      Honorable Mention: Get Off of My Cloud, Angie, Heart of Stone, Ruby Tuesday, 19th Nervous Breakdown, Under My Thumb

    81. Underrated Stones songs –

      1. No Expectations
      2. Live With Me
      3. Rip This Joint
      4. Rocks Off
      5. Monkey Man

    82. TheClashFan: +

      Then there’s the death of pets. Our 16 year-old maltipoo had to be put to sleep last week. We’re still pretty bummed about that.

      Sorry to hear that, losing a pet is a terrible day that lasts for months. Lost our 15 year old dog last year, still think of her most days.

      Noel must kick himself for turning down that 70 mil from Dallas – ouch!

      Jumping Jack Flash
      Can’t you hear me knocking
      Moonlight Mile
      Let it Bleed
      Memory Motel

      or just play Exile on Mainstreet over and over

    83. Pretty sure Lady Jowles first decided to permanently shack up with me when I showed her Moonlight Mile and played it at full blast on the big stereo.

      Rich Paul is not going to enjoy the discovery phase of that lawsuit.

    84. My Stones “bench”

      Soul Survivor
      Bitch
      You can’t always get what you want
      Out of time
      Paint it black

      One more that stuck to my mind tonight
      Stray cat blues

    85. Shocked that no one has mentioned “Sympathy for the Devil” yet. A Stone classic.

      Off the top of my head – and in no particular order – here are five much-loved RS obscurities (to the extent that any Stones song can be considered obscure)

      I Just Want To See His Face
      Out Of Time
      Fingerprint File
      Dead Flowers
      We Love You (first issued as 45, not sure if it was ever released on LP)

    86. http://sportsagentblog.com/2021/08/24/nerlens-noel-blasts-nba-agent-rich-paul-in-new-lawsuit/

      Here an article that breaks down the Noel v Rich Paul lawsuit. I’m not sure Noel will win the $58 million he’s asking but it will be fascinating to see what comes out. One interesting tidbit is the Rockets and Clippers (two rivals for Lebron’s Lakers mind you) inquiring about Noel and Paul and team allegedly ignoring the calls. It’s one thing to drum interest and see what else is out there, it’s another to keep your client in the dark like that – if it’s true.

      This could also be a ploy by CAA to ruin Rich Paul’s reputation, so they don’t pouch potential clients.

      Interesting stuff. Definitely want to know more.

    87. Edit function works but sends the comment to the top of the thread. So strange.

      Exile on Main Street I lived with for a while. Love that album so much. If I had to think of the albums I had listened to the most all the way through has to be that, Achtung Baby, and Graceland.

      And I picked up 100 Years Ago back in the iPod days when I was traveling from a playlist I downloaded from someone and for some reason that always struck a chord. Not a classic but it isn’t always the best songs that stick with you.

      Sorry about the doggo Clash.

    88. lot of great tunes listed, i’d add: waiting on a friend…and oh yeah, laugh if you will, but, i always liked hang fire too from that lp…

      sorry to hear that clash…i get that pets in many instances are very much family…

    89. The Stones were so creative and have so many great songs. They even had a country hit with “Girl with the Far Away Eyes”. I heard that on the radio and liked it and didn’t realize it was them for a long time.

    90. Knick fan not in NJ:
      The Stones were so creative and have so many great songs.They even had a country hit with “Girl with the Far Away Eyes”.I heard that on the radio and liked it and didn’t realize it was them for a long time.

      Don’t forget “Sweet Virginia.”

    91. I did a favor for a friend and as a gesture of appreciation he gave me a very nice original pressing of Exile On Main Street on vinyl. It kicks mega ass.

      Most of my favorite Stones tunes have been mentioned here by somebody already but here are some of my faves: Rocks Off, Tumbling Dice, Moonlight Mile, I Am Waiting, Gimme Shelter, She’s A Rainbow, Midnight Rambler, Street Fighting Man, Happy, Waiting On A Friend, Winter, Dead Flowers, Fingerprint File…

      Too many great ones just off the top of my head.

    92. Exile is hard to beat. I listened to it every day for a couple months in college. (No doubt my suitemates loved me.)

      @d-mar great choices! And yes @geo Waiting on a Friend is great.

      Band in college had a horn section, and when we did parties we covered Bitch, Brown Sugar, Honky Tonk Women, and All Down The Line. Working out the horn parts for All Down the Line took me HOURS.

    93. Hasn’t been mentioned yet, but I’ve always considered Brown Sugar one of the most kick ass songs in rock and roll.

      And Charlie Watt drives it all forward with his propulsive drumming.

    94. pepper:
      still keep my original sticky fingers album with the zipper on it under lock and key

      That one and the Some Girls LP with all of the pictures on the sleeve before they were made to remove some of them due to legal action.

    95. And Charlie Watt drives it all forward with his propulsive drumming.

      I love when he switches to the toms in the final verse

    96. RIP Charlie Watts

      d-mar:
      Keith Richards probably did 10 times the amount of blow, heroin and drinking that Charlie Watts did, and he keeps going and going. A physiological marvel.

      Keith is undead.

    97. I like the Stones, but don’t really love anything in their catalogue. Am I being (typically) ridiculous if I say that Waiting on a Friend is their best song? Cause Sonny Rollins is a god and I eat up that solo like candy.

    98. ***Brown Sugar one of the most kick ass songs in rock and roll.***

      It came on the radio the other day and I turned it up, then deeply regretted it. My teenaged daughters were in the car and it was just awkward, uncomfortable, and embarrassing. (Last time I listened to it, like 30 years ago, it seemed innocuous enough—about baking tollhouse cookies—but, nope. They didn’t say it, but I felt them thinking “what’s wrong with you dad”…)

    99. So many great songs I can’t get myself to choose the best 5… or 10… or 20.
      They made entire albums full of top-x deserving songs…
      Just keep playin’ them folks…

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