Knicks Morning News (2021.08.23)

  • How Jericho Sims Can Find His Place in the Knicks’ Rotation – The Knicks Wall
    [theknickswall.com] — Monday, August 23, 2021 6:52:48 AM

    How Jericho Sims Can Find His Place in the Knicks’ Rotation  The Knicks Wall

  • Knicks discussed teaming Kemba Walker, Kevin Durant in 2019 – New York Post
    [nypost.com] — Sunday, August 22, 2021 7:28:00 PM

    Knicks discussed teaming Kemba Walker, Kevin Durant in 2019  New York Post

  • NY Knicks: The 5 Superstars who are destined to join NY in the future – Daily Knicks
    [dailyknicks.com] — Sunday, August 22, 2021 5:16:00 PM

    NY Knicks: The 5 Superstars who are destined to join NY in the future  Daily Knicks

  • New York Knicks: Full Player Stats Projections For 2021-22 – Daily Knicks
    [dailyknicks.com] — Sunday, August 22, 2021 2:18:00 PM

    New York Knicks: Full Player Stats Projections For 2021-22  Daily KnicksKnicks discussed teaming Kemba Walker, Kevin Durant in 2019  New York Post The Knicks signed former Florida State guard M.J. Walker  Posting and ToastingKnicks’ Kemba Walker details ‘fearless’ mentality, raves about RJ Barrett and Julius Randle  Empire Sports MediaKnicks rumors: New York’s Kevin Durant-Kemba Walker duo plan, revealed  ClutchPointsView Full Coverage on Google News

  • Liked it? Take a second to support Administrator on Patreon!

    178 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2021.08.23)”

    1. You seem to be arguing now that Kemba would only accept the buyout from OKC if he had a guarantee that it would be recouped from money from a new contract. This makes little sense to me and I see no evidence for it.

      we do have evidence … he recouped his money from the knicks… and he didn’t accept a buyout before then… we have no idea what would’ve happened if he didn’t… but i have no idea how you say when you have no evidence when it just happened…

      Kemba didn’t do this.

      you’re assuming that’s what kemba wanted… and not accounting for the fact that kemba might not want to take that risk… he doesn’t get bird rights with the knicks and so his market next year would be pretty limited because of that…

      in any case.. you’re making wild accusations without any proof of anything.. so calm down…

      It seems like he wanted to play here at least two years, given that he didn’t go the 20 mil buyout and 9 million one year deal knowing he could make more than eleven million in year two from pretty much the contender of his choice.

      since we already went from me having to prove that kemba didn’t have leverage for a player option and that the FO is getting undeserved credit for that… we’ve now moved to kemba leaving actual money on the table by not taking a one year deal instead… in any case…

      which contender would a)want kemba… b)would have 11mm or more in cap room next summer? here i’ll help you with a link to the teams with cap room next year…
      https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cap/2022/

      please prove and back your statement.. if not.. drop it please… you’re being hysterical simply because i don’t want to fellate the FO…

    2. DJ, this was done at the beginning of August. You must analyze it taking into account the cap space at the time of the move.
      Can’t waste much time on this, but Charlotte signed Oubre for 2/26M on Aug 6, he could have gone back to the Hornets. The Bucks had the taxpayers MLE (5.9M) available, they used it (or part of it) on Aug 6 to sign George Hill. It’s 6M less than on the Knicks, but probably a much better chance to win a chip. And the Bulls signed Caruso some hours before the Knicks signed Kemba. If he was an option for them, would they sign Caruso or Kemba?
      There were still options available for Kemba, so he did want to come here because we’re attractive. In 2019 he didn’t want to come here, so the FO did something good between then and now.

    3. Is this really so complicated?

      Kemba didn’t want to play in OKC because they are rebuilding on a timetable that puts him in retirement when they are peaking.

      OKC realized they couldn’t trade him and wanted to save some money.

      Kemba always wanted to play in NY but didn’t want to play on a shitty team.

      The Knicks are not a shitty team anymore and could afford to pay him enough that he wouldn’t leave a significant amount of money (in NBA terms) on the table.

      The rest is some details of give and take to make everyone happy. It was probably one of the easiest negotiations you are going to see at the NBA level.

    4. The article from the TKW is great, go read it.
      I leave you with a bit, for you to get interested…

      Either way, it’s becoming tougher and tougher to envision a future where both of these rim runners (Mitch and Noel) remain on the same roster after this coming season. That is exactly where Sims would slot into the conversation. Should either center no longer be with the team for the 2022–23 campaign, Sims could easily take the position of backup center behind whichever of the two stays.
      Sims has shown a lot of the same tendencies as them in his brief playing time—athletic enough to catch lobs thrown just about anywhere in his vicinity like Robinson, and stout enough to shut down opposing offenses in the paint like Noel.

    5. DJ, this was done at the beginning of August. You must analyze it taking into account the cap space at the time of the move.

      that’s not what he’s arguing… he’s arguing for next summer…

      none of those teams would have offered the starting job in order for him to theoretically ‘recoup’ money… he would have been at best a 6th man… and i sort of doubt any one of them would have wanted kemba over the option they went with…

      but i’m also not saying that kemba didn’t choose us over someone else… he probably did… and the knicks deserve credit for being chosen… i just don’t think kemba was choosing from the entire nba…. it was likely a narrow market and most of whom likely couldn’t compete with from a money perspective to help kemba recoup money from his buyout…

      the knicks deserve credit for finding this deal… we’re just going overboard that kemba had all this power that he gave up… he wasn’t in a great place and didn’t have a lot of options and we helped him out as much as he did us….

    6. These “debates” are so stupid. DJ, you seem to have it in for this front office and always want to diminish what they do, even if you still “approve” of the overall move. Why? I can give you 19 reasons!

      I mean, sometimes there’s just a good situation for everyone involved and that’s the case with Kemba and The Knicks. But you gotta hand it to the FO for creating a good situation that Kemba would want to come to and also keeping their ear to the ground and remaining open enough to pounce on this situation when it arose. Almost all of these buy out situations the player is picking from a small group of possible teams. But the knicks were one of those teams and that hasn’t happened in ages. And yeah, we gave him some money. He’s Kemba FUCKING Walker. Even with knee issues you don’t pay a 5 time all-star vet minimum money after a buy out. It worked out for everyone involved so what is the problem exactly?

    7. I guess in some people’s worlds, offering someone praise is equivalent to performing oral sex on them.

    8. DJ, you seem to have it in for this front office and always want to diminish what they do, even if you still “approve” of the overall move.

      since i’m backing everything i say… i think it’s more that other people are making crazy and outlandish statements about the front office… like there was some sort of player option that we tricked kemba into not signing…

      look… are you going to deny that you will fellate the front office at every opportunity? and what happens when you’re challenged or when i ask you a question? you ghost out most of the time…. i have given the front office way more credit than you or anyone have actually been critical of…

      so no i don’t diminish the front office at every opportunity…. if it appears that way that should tell you how sensitive you might be… if you don’t think so.. then please try to address the arguments i’m presenting instead accusing me of pure bias…. i rarely if ever do that to you even though you’re the self proclaimed biggest homer on this board….

    9. I guess in some people’s worlds, offering someone praise is equivalent to performing oral sex on them.

      the gushing out of your mouth about the front office at every opportunity is some sort of bodily fluid… so yea…

    10. I wouldn’t rely on Sims for much of anything besides the occasional cool highlight. He obviously performed well in summer league, but he’s pushing 23 and summer league is pretty much the ideal scenario for a freskishly athletic big. Personally I didn’t see much that would’ve been hard to predict based on his mediocre college career.

      That doesn’t mean it would necessarily be wise to invest any amount of money in Mitch and/or the center position in general, but I think we’d be in for a rude awakening if we let Mitch go thinking Sims could replicate his production on both ends.

      He’s a perfectly fine two-way candidate and I will not drive people insane by critiquing a 58th overall pick even though he wouldn’t have been my choice, but as far as I’m concerned we’d still be in trouble if we let Mitch walk for nothing.

    11. djphan: the knicks deserve credit for finding this deal… we’re just going overboard that kemba had all this power that he gave up… he wasn’t in a great place and didn’t have a lot of options and we helped him out as much as he did us….

      Agreed. Now let’s talk about Sims… can he be a new Mitch? Will he develop faster (and better) because we now have a very capable developing staff?

    12. I think we should retire this particular Kemba debate forever because we’ll never know the answers to all of the relevant questions.

      I am very happy to have him for two guaranteed years at a sub $10M AAV salary because the upside is fairly high and the downside is low.

      Also who doesn’t love a homecoming story as long as it doesn’t involve trading Wilson Chandler, Raymond Felton, Danilo Gallinari, Timofey Mozgov, a 2012 2nd round pick, a 2013 2nd round pick, a 2014 1st round pick, and a 2016 1st round pick?

    13. Sims isn’t going to replace Mitch’s production, but he could develop into a more than serviceable backup who keeps the Knicks near the top of the league on defense for 15min a night.

      Mitch can walk next year if he wants, and I’m not too inclined to keep Mitch if a team throws $20M+ at him. Sims could be good enough to backup Noel on the cheap if that happens.

      Sims numbers in college are mediocre but he got drafted based on being an elite defensive player, not his rebounding or scoring.

    14. thenoblefacehumper: I wouldn’t rely on Sims for much of anything besides the occasional cool highlight. He obviously performed well in summer league, but he’s pushing 23 and summer league is pretty much the ideal scenario for a freskishly athletic big. Personally I didn’t see much that would’ve been hard to predict based on his mediocre college career.

      You read my mind and started the Sims discussion. ;)
      Don’t you think he can be a good backup? The starter needs to be Noel, Mitch, or… Turner (if we can grab him on the cheap). I’m not comfortable with Noel as the starter, the other 2 i like a lot, but although i love Mitch, Turner wins everyday because of his more polished offense.
      My question about Sims is if he can be the guy behind one of those three, can he?

    15. ***DJ, you seem to have it in for this front office and always want to diminish what they do***

      It’s funny, cause he actually came to defense of Steve Mills last week.

    16. Sims numbers in college are mediocre but he got drafted based on being an elite defensive player, not his rebounding or scoring.

      sims wasn’t an elite defensive player in college… mitch was actually an elite defensive player in the nba….

    17. I am very happy to have him for two guaranteed years at a sub $10M AAV salary because the upside is fairly high and the downside is low.

      we got fair deals (including julius) from all our guys this off-season…it’ll be interesting to see if we use any of those contracts as trade bait the next couple of years…

    18. djphan: the gushing out of your mouth about the front office at every opportunity is some sort of bodily fluid… so yea…

      I have no problem with you referring to me with any homophobic/misogynistic language you can think of since I’ve not puled any punches in letting folks know how I feel about you. But Brian and I were in agreement with me when you first said it, and you have since used the term “fellating the FO” to several subsequent posters had the temerity to praise the FO to one degree or another for the Kemba move (see your first post in this thread.) Do you really not get that referring to a broad swath of posters who disagree with you, including Brian, Swift, BJ, etc. as a bunch of c–ksuckers is way over the line?

      Anyway, keep right on beating that deader-than-a-doornail horse! Hopefully it will generate as much mocking humor as your harping on the #19 trade-out did.

    19. ***it’ll be interesting to see if we use any of those contracts as trade bait the next couple of years…***

      It’ll be as interesting as seeing if the sun continues to rise in the east; as interesting as seeing if Sacramento Kings will win the west; as interesting as seeing whether I make it through two full episodes of a television show in the next couple of years…

    20. Donnie Walsh:
      ***DJ, you seem to have it in for this front office and always want to diminish what they do***

      It’s funny, cause he actually came to defense of Steve Mills last week.

      “Praising” Steve Mills as a way of taking shots at the current FO would make bobneptune blush.

    21. **sims wasn’t an elite defensive player in college… mitch was actually an elite defensive player in the nba….**

      Djphan, I kindly ask you to stop being an ass to everyone.

    22. I mean, we were the 4th seed last year. At one point won 11 games in a row, went to the playoffs last year for the first time in a decade, have a proven winner as a coach, a second team all NBA player who is 26 locked up for the prime of his career at a reasonable cost and have a team full of vets who can play on super reasonable contracts with team options and young players who all seem to be on the rise. Our two draft picks performed well in summer league and we have all of our first round picks going forward plus a boatload of second round picks.

      Yeah, I don’t mind metaphorically fellating the front office for the moves they’re making right now. I get that unless the Knicks win a championship you’ll always find something to bitch about, but that’s not my style. Especially not right now.

      The world is too fucked up for me to nitpick the Knicks right now when they’re pulling all the right strings and actually bringing some joy into my life.

      Also, the homophobic language ain’t cool but whatever man. Let’s pick a fight over Kemba Fucking Walker being on the Knicks and it costing us nothing but a bit of cap space for 2 years.

    23. do you really not get that referring to a broad swath of posters who disagree with you, including Brian, Swift, BJ, etc. as a bunch of c–ksuckers is way over the line?

      uh no i did not call any one of them any names so i would stop right there…. the only person i’m willing to cross the line over is with you…. i treat everyone else here with respect (well maybe E which you seemed to think i was targeting you with when i was talking about him) which i can’t say you do as you use everyone else as your doormat….

      Djphan, I kindly ask you to stop being an ass to everyone.

      i’m sorry what part of what i said was being an ass to you? sims wasn’t an elite defensive player in college… that’s just fact… mitch was an elite defensive player in the nba… that’s also a fact… why did that offend you so much? if you can point to what i did that was so abrasive to you then i will apologize…

    24. Late to the pizza party, I know, but yesterday’s thread called to mind some tasty memories…

      I doubt it ever made many Top-10 lists but my spot was Eddie’s Pizza at the corner of Ellwood & Nagle. That place sustained me, two slices at a time, throughout many a lean period in the nearly 20 years I lived up in Inwood. Eddie had just the right mix of thin, crunchy crust, savory sauce, and mozzarella in just the correct proportions. For my money, he made a much better pie than Famous Ray’s on 11th, which was considered the gold standard for NYC Pizza back then. Being up in Inwood, Eddie’s could never become the destination that Ray’s was but you’d regularly see folks who had left the neighborhood years before making a special trip back just to get some of that good shit from Eddie.

      I left Inwood – and NYC – in 1993 for the West Coast and have rarely been back since. I’d be surprised if Eddie’s is still around considering how much Manhattan and all of its neighborhoods have changed. I rarely eat pizza nowadays, having long since given up hope of finding anything here in Cali that is a fraction as good as what I used to get on the regular at Eddie’s. I’ve moved on and I don’t miss it nearly as much as I used to when I first arrived here. As jk said, the excellent tacos out here do a more than adequate job of filling the pizza void. One culinary void that hasn’t been filled and that is still the object of some intense cravings on my part is pickles. I have yet to find a good, sour brine pickle here and damned if I don’t still need them in my life. I’d sell my soul for just one taste of a food that was a commonplace staple at even the most ordinary deli when I lived in NY.

    25. Also, the homophobic language ain’t cool but whatever man

      ok you assholes are trying to make me into some homophobe… no… just no… there’s nothing homophobic about fellating someone….. i’m not attacking anyone for their preference to fellate someone… it’s the constant crazy rhetoric is equivalent of someone giving oral pleasure to the front office …. which has nothing to do if you’re male or female or whatever your sexual preference is…

      so yea i know you guys are eager to discredit or label someone you have no response to since you can never address any of the arguments on the merits and yet keep attacking them… that’s not fair and i’m being called a homophobe for that…

      i’ll let you guys apologize given that… but until then .. this is absolutely a hostile environment and i haven’t really done anything to deserve it….

    26. I’m still in mourning over the closing of Caesar’s Palace Pizza on Amsterdam and 84th…helped get me through many a traffic jam on the West Side Highway on the way home from school…

      Three Boys from Italy on Burke Ave and White Plains Rd in the Bronx is still my fav of all time.

    27. djphan: ok you assholes are trying to make me into some homophobe… no… just no… there’s nothing homophobic about fellating someone….. i’m not attacking anyone for their preference to fellate someone… it’s the constant crazy rhetoric is equivalent of someone giving oral pleasure to the front office …. which has nothing to do if you’re male or female or whatever your sexual preference is…

      so yea i know you guys are eager to discredit or label someone you have no response to since you can never address any of the arguments on the merits and yet keep attacking them… that’s not fair and i’m being called a homophobe for that…

      i’ll let you guys apologize given that… but until then .. this is absolutely a hostile environment and i haven’t really done anything to deserve it….

      naah…you’re never abrasive…condescending…self-righteous…agenda-driven…smirky…twerpy…off-base…wrong…if you don’t believe me…just ask djhan…he’ll tell you…over and over and over and over…

    28. Count de Pennies:
      Late to the pizza party, I know, but yesterday’s thread called to mind some tasty memories…

      One culinary void that hasn’t been filled and thatis still the object of some intense cravings on my part is pickles. I have yet to find a good, sour brine pickle here and damned if I don’t still need them in my life. I’d sell my soul for just one taste of a food that was a commonplace staple at even the most ordinary deli when I lived in NY.

      Based on a recent sampling, Guss’ Pickles are not quite what they once were, but they may just help provide a sufficient balm.
      https://www.gusspickle.com/

    29. Who are you and what have you done with Jowles?

      Jowles as a calm, reasonable peacemaker on this site is… not a thing I expected. I both credit Lady Jowles and blame breakdowns in decorum elsewhere around here.

    30. “..One culinary void that hasn’t been filled and that is still the object of some intense cravings on my part is pickles. I have yet to find a good, sour brine pickle here and damned if I don’t still need them in my life. ..”

      count …not sure where you are in CA..but up here in NorCal…the best I have found are from Sonoma Brinery…although about 20% of the time…they seem to be past their prime but a good batch is close to NYC level…Safeway has them from time to time…

      Other than that …Bubby’s …which I think is a Canadian company does a respectable job…I think Safeway carries that brand as well…

    31. naah…you’re never abrasive…condescending…self-righteous…agenda-driven…smirky…twerpy…off-base…wrong…if you don’t believe me…just ask djhan…he’ll tell you…over and over and over and over…

      im sure all this name calling coming from you means a whole lot to you.. and apparently other people who excuse it… and i’m sure you think it affects me… but i’m pretty comfortable with what i am and how i interact with everyone and i’m not perfect but i at least try to be pretty fair to people… and at worst i attack the argument and not the person… if that makes me an ass i guess i am the biggest asshole here…

      you on the other hand.. could probably live a few lifetimes wooshing yourself …. a garden gnome trying to give career advice out to people… i didn’t respond to some of that high comedy cause i was busy celebrating a huge offer from a large financial institution with friends and family partly off the backs of the work i have done that i have shared with here and other places on the internet … so i know you don’t value the work i do but that doesn’t really mean much coming from someone in a position like yours who is outright violent towards try hards and critical thinking….

      it’s actual quite outrageous if not sad knowing your background…. but hey dude… go on enforcing that narrative on the internet…. i’m sure that compensates for that career of yours…

    32. Jowles as a calm, reasonable peacemaker on this site is… not a thing I expected. I both credit Lady Jowles and blame breakdowns in decorum elsewhere around here.

      i was thinking about the whole: KB power of the gif discussion the other day…it made me remember when this site was going through a really tough period there towards the end of bob neptune’s tenure and you seriously helped to get us back on track…

      that was cool al…

    33. that was cool al…

      Basketball-wise, I’m certainly one of the dumber people on this site. But when it comes to providing distractions to change/improve a mood? That, I can do.

    34. i gotta be honest: fellating the front office does kind of roll off the tongue pretty smoothly…

      DJ Phan yours is one of the more interesting poster transformations yet here that i’ve seen…i love it…it’s great when people are honest and let you know how they really feel…i’ve always been a big fan of that…

      i assume you’ve always had this temperament, but, for whatever reason felt the need to previously suppress it in the past…

      if i remember correctly though, you did have a pretty significant life event around the time you started opening up here…

      hmmmmm, i see jowles’ transformation as more an evolution and settling in to a really nice balance in life…well, that and missus jowles :)

    35. I don’t understand this Kemba argument at all. The guy signed for two years bc he had two years left on his deal and he didn’t want to lose money.

    36. Now we’re assholes!

      Dude, I didn’t say you were a homophobe. Just that you were using homophobic language. I mean, you’re basically trying to emasculate those of us who think the FO is doing a good job by saying we’re giving out blowjobs to them. I used to insult people like that too….30 years ago when I was in high school.

      Someone mentioned LA pizza being bad. Try moving to Omaha. I thought it was bad going from NY to LA but my god its a pizza wasteland here. I’ve found some OK spots but its rough out here.

      It got so rough I bought my own peel and stone and just started making pizzas from scratch. They ain’t good NYC slice quality but at least they’re mine.

    37. Basketball-wise, I’m certainly one of the dumber people on this site.

      that’s not true…i mean you’re not spitting data like some, but – you’re team building sense and talent assessment are both pretty strong…

    38. pepper:

      Other than that …Bubby’s …which I think is a Canadian company does a respectable job…I think Safeway carries that brand as well…

      Tried Bubby’s… meh. Just did not scratch me where I itched.

      Have never heard of the Sonoma Brinery before but I’ll be sure to keep an eye out for it. I’m in SoCal so hopefully it can be found in some of the stores down here. Thx for the tip.

      @Bo Nateman: A friend sent me a big jar of Guss’ several years back for my birthday. Now that’s what I’m talkin’ about! Sadly, the price of shipping it cross country prevents me from making a regular diet of it.

    39. Try moving to Omaha.

      it’s hard right now to recall any pre-conceived notions of what life in omaha might be like – tell us 3 cool things about living in omaha swift, please, please…

    40. Zman vs. DJ is becoming the Knickerblogger version of Dershowitz vs. Finkelstein. Anybody familiar with those two can probably figure out who the analogues are in this scenario.

      DJ’s pessimism has been pretty measured and he backs it up. I think some people here don’t like how insistent he is or whatever, but there hasn’t really been anything hyperbolic in his criticism, not that I’ve seen anyway. His posts are more interesting to me than a lot of the uncritical pom pom waving stuff we’ve been getting the past few months.

    41. Raylen Givens is great but I feel Jonathan Swift’s confederacy of dunces is more appropriate here. DJ is definitely a challenge to read sometimes, but he defends his positions relentlessly and with vigor. His opponents just attack him personally. Homophobic and misogynist? GTFOH. I do wish he’d let a few things go, though.

    42. djphan: i didn’t respond to some of that high comedy cause i was busy celebrating a huge offer from a large financial institution with friends and family partly off the backs of the work i have done that i have shared with here and other places on the internet … so i know you don’t value the work i do but that doesn’t really mean much coming from someone in a position like yours who is outright violent towards try hards and critical thinking….

      Congrats on the career advancement! Whatever has transpired between us, I don’t believe I ever went beyond what I thought of your posting and retaliated with anything it suggested about your job or your private life. Sadly, I was not afforded the same courtesy that nearly all posters abide by. No worries, though. For all of my many faults, being thin-skinned is not one of them.

      I do think that much about your KB persona has been laid bare in your recent interactions with other posters. Constantly having to talk down to folks in explaining why they are “not getting you” and why you aren’t an asshole is not a good look.

    43. Hubert:
      I don’t understand this Kemba argument at all. The guy signed for two years bc he had two years left on his deal and he didn’t want to lose money.

      Well, some players have left money on the table and signed one year deals that let them choose the best ring chasing place every summer. I am thinking Blake Griffin, although it is not very comparable because he was bought out during the season and signed for the minimum, and when you sign for the minimum there is no point in getting extra years. But he lost like 10 million, which is about the same money Kemba would have lost if he decided to sign just for one year with us.

      So… did Kemba have leverage to ask for a player option? If he just wanted to come here, not a lot, frankly. If he was open to signing anywhere else, then yes.

      I think it is more a matter of choosing his destination than about losing money.

    44. Dink:
      Zman vs. DJ is becoming the Knickerblogger version of Dershowitz vs. Finkelstein. Anybody familiar with those two can probably figure out who the analogues are in this scenario.

      DJ’s pessimism has been pretty measured and he backs it up. I think some people here don’t like how insistent he is or whatever, but there hasn’t really been anything hyperbolic in his criticism, not that I’ve seen anyway. His posts are more interesting to me than a lot of the uncritical pom pom waving stuff we’ve been getting the past few months.

      Whatever Dink, I guess our definitions of what constitutes “hyperbolic” and “pom pom waving” are pretty far apart.

    45. Dude, I didn’t say you were a homophobe. Just that you were using homophobic language. I mean, you’re basically trying to emasculate those of us who think the FO is doing a good job by saying we’re giving out blowjobs to them. I used to insult people like that too….30 years ago when I was in high school.

      the problem is that you think giving blowjobs is automatically being a homophobe.. it’s not.. it’s not even homophobic language any less than if i accused you of giving the front office a foot massage or doing their nails…. is it classist if i instead said you were delivering their pizza or doing their laundry or shining their shoes? or would that somehow be racist in your book?

      in no way was it homophobic… and yes you were an asshole for accusing me….

    46. Z-man, I’m not including you in the pom pom waving group. I actually think you’ve been somewhat measured in your optimistic takes on the FO, you can just be abrasive when doing it. For whatever reason you seem way more level-headed when responding to FO negativity when it’s NOT coming from djphan.

      No point in naming names, but there’s a couple of new-ish posters (and a few old ones) who jump all over the FO pessimism stuff and don’t really offer anything in response. That’s way more annoying (to me) than any of takes coming from dj (or even E for that matter).

    47. I’ve fully lost track of what we’re even arguing about re: Kemba.

      What I think happened was OKC viewed the opportunity for guaranteed savings on Kemba’s contract as more valuable than the very uncertain proposition they could eventually get assets for Kemba despite having basically no ability to showcase Kemba, play SGA as much as he deserves, and develop Giddey/Maledon. Seems reasonable.

      Don’t you think he can be a good backup? The starter needs to be Noel, Mitch, or… Turner (if we can grab him on the cheap). I’m not comfortable with Noel as the starter, the other 2 i like a lot, but although i love Mitch, Turner wins everyday because of his more polished offense.
      My question about Sims is if he can be the guy behind one of those three, can he?

      It’s possible he can be a passable backup center, though I still think he’d be middling compared to other backups due to his size and ineptitude from the line.

      I’m also not comfortable with Noel as the starter so my opinion is partially informed by the fact that this would make Sims the backup to a starter who should himself be a backup, which is obviously not a great scenario.

      If we somehow get Turner all bets are off as far as how the rest of the center rotation would shake out, so all I’ll say is that while I love the idea of Myles Turner (a great rim protector who can also space the floor both from three and as a lob threat) the production has never quite justified trading serious assets for him (especially at $18M AAV).

    48. I do think that much about your KB persona has been laid bare in your recent interactions with other posters. Constantly having to talk down to folks in explaining why they are “not getting you” and why you aren’t an asshole is not a good look.

      who is talking down to anyone? i’ve laid out all my arguments quite clearly and when it continually doesn’t get addressed and instead i get attacked… yes i do have permission to then hit back and be condescending.. wtf has strat’s entire interaction with others on this has been? this whole kemba thing started because BJ was saying i was making a wild accusation…. well i showed why it wasn’t… and i continually get attacked like i don’t know what i’m talking about..

      Congrats on the career advancement! Whatever has transpired between us, I don’t believe I ever went beyond what I thought of your posting and retaliated with anything it suggested about your job or your private life. Sadly, I was not afforded the same courtesy that nearly all posters abide by. No worries, though. For all of my many faults, being thin-skinned is not one of them.

      first.. thank you… second .. .yes you did go beyond quite routinely…. you name call people… you exaggerate people’s claims.. you try and get people to mob others…. you downright harrass people …. you disparage people’s work for the sake of it…. when you behave like that and act the way you do… all your posts are fair game.. and i’m sure you did the same with E and others about how they post and the work they do also….

      i’ve tried to drop it many times but you won’t let me and so all this gets brought on because you can’t help but get triggered by people who have different opinions than you…. and so you deserve everything that you get…

    49. geo: that’s not true…i mean you’re not spitting data like some, but – you’re team building sense and talent assessment are both pretty strong…

      Alan was just being humble because he thinks we’ve got to… praise him like ya should! ;D

    50. Anyone ever get pizza from Koronet on 110th & Broadway? I fell in love with it during my Columbia days and still take a trip up there whenever I’m in NYC.

    51. Anyone ever get pizza from Koronet on 110th & Broadway? I fell in love with it during my Columbia days and still take a trip up there whenever I’m in NYC.

      Yup. Definitely impressive quality considering the absolutely enormous slices, and they’re open 24/7 (or at least very late) so they’ve served as a nice capstone to a night out on more than one occasion.

    52. I’ve fully lost track of what we’re even arguing about re: Kemba.

      I follow the Knicks and this site pretty closely and honestly I have no idea what the argument is about.

      My conclusion about this FO is that they’re not really very good at the draft but that they make up for it in other areas. They’ve been pretty good about avoiding catastrophic blunders. I was hoping for some high-upside moves this offseason that might have brought us up a level, but I guess the level we’re at is good enough for now. I’m looking forward to the season.

    53. thenoblefacehumper: It’s possible he can be a passable backup center, though I still think he’d be middling compared to other backups due to his size and ineptitude from the line.

      Ok, i’m switching to plan B – promote Sims a little to entice Sacramento in making a swap of 2-way contracts, we send Sims and they send us back Queta (“oh no, once the draft passed we thought Cyber would let go of the Queta dream, but seems like he didn’t” LOL).

      thenoblefacehumper: while I love the idea of Myles Turner (a great rim protector who can also space the floor both from three and as a lob threat) the production has never quite justified trading serious assets for him (especially at $18M AAV)

      Yeah, the last proposed trade that i saw was Mitch + Obi + Knox + Future 1st, which doesn’t even work because we’re sending less money than we should. LOL
      I would offer Mitch + Knox + Taj + Vildoza + Future 1st, and that’s it, take it or leave it. They’re less than 1M from the luxury tax, so with this move they get a player almost as good as Myles, saving money in the process and collecting a 1RP. Seems good from their POV, and from ours it’s a gamble on Myles’ offensive prowess justifying the 1RP.

    54. djphan: you name call people… you exaggerate people’s claims.. you try and get people to mob others…. you downright harrass people …. you disparage people’s work for the sake of it…. when you behave like that and act the way you do… all your posts are fair game.. and i’m sure you did the same with E and others about how they post and the work they do also….

      Yeah, I’ve name-called (see: the way you and others treat Strat) exxagerated people’s claims (we all do, as you are on this very page with the outrageous “fellate the FO” nonsense) downright harrass people (beyond you and Hubert, not really, and we seem to be in a good place right now) disparage people’s work for the sake of it (I only disparaged work related to their KB posts, e.g. your draft work, not their work outside of this forum or their personal lives [except for the Jowles “drink bleach” episode, and I immediately retracted and apologized.])

      Me and tnfh have had some rough patches, yet he seemed cool with the idea of meeting up at the Knicks playoff game. I’ve had some transient beefs with JK, Donnie, Ingmarrrr, danvt, and others but all seems good with them. My positions are probably most closely aligned with guys like Alan, Brian, et. al. although we disagree from time to time. Many might not like my occasionaly overcombative schtik, but you’re the only one here with a lifelong vendetta. I don’t really hold grudges, and thankfully, neither do most other posters. Strat is the very best example, he takes more mean-spirited shit (deserved and not) and just keeps on keeping on, never with vendettas or grudges. You could learn a thing or two from him.

    55. JK47: My conclusion about this FO is that they’re not really very good at the draft but that they make up for it in other areas. They’ve been pretty good about avoiding catastrophic blunders. I was hoping for some high-upside moves this offseason that might have brought us up a level, but I guess the level we’re at is good enough for now. I’m looking forward to the season.

      Most of the non-outliers here are in agreement about this general point. As to the draft, I am a bit less down on them than you….the Obi pick was suboptimal but not catastrophic and ther jury is still out, I didn’t like the trade-outs but those were relatively small potatoes to me, and IQ, Grimes, Joku and McBride suggest a decent nose for late-1st/early 2nd talent. But I totally get the guarded pessimism about their drafting.

    56. I got out my new milk frothing wand, heated the bleach, and am having myself a bleachaccino right now reading this. Hopefully it pairs well with old beef.

    57. Dink: Z-man, I’m not including you in the pom pom waving group. I actually think you’ve been somewhat measured in your optimistic takes on the FO, you can just be abrasive when doing it. For whatever reason you seem way more level-headed when responding to FO negativity when it’s NOT coming from djphan.

      Thanks for clarifying Dink.

    58. Owen:
      I got out my new milk frothing wand, heated the bleach, and am having myself a bleachaccino right now reading this. Hopefully it pairs well with old beef.

      Dod you at least spring for the good “no splash” stuff?

    59. thenoblefacehumper: I’ve fully lost track of what we’re even arguing about re: Kemba.

      This is about where I am with this. Kemba was a risk worth taking. IMO, Leon’s draft picks have graded out so far to a “B”. But his work in building a functional organization, retaining and acquiring player and coaching talent as well as other assets and redefining the culture and image of the Knicks has been nothing short of an A+. All complaints about the work he’s done fall on deaf ears. Maybe I’ve seen so much disfunction over the past who-the-fuck-knows-how-long that a dandelion smells as sweet as a rose to me .

      I’m trading nobody right now. This is a fine lineup to go to battle with. If, by some miracle, an all-NBA, true star becomes available, I hope Leon’s on the ball. In the meantime I’m ready to go to war with this lot.

    60. Many might not like my occasionaly overcombative schtik, but you’re the only one here with a lifelong vendetta. I don’t really hold grudges, and thankfully, neither do most other posters. Strat is the very best example, he takes more mean-spirited shit (deserved and not) and just keeps on keeping on, never with vendettas or grudges. You could learn a thing or two from him.

      oh my fucking god… i’m the one with the lifelong vendetta here?

      didn’t you have to apologize multiples times with me? didn’t we have some sort of truce where we just stayed out of each others way? who the fuck decided to trample all over it each time…

      you try to rope me in constantly…. even when you went at me the other day.. which i wasn’t even talking about you.. i was talking about E who is the only scrooge on this site.. i just let it go cause i didn’t feel like rolling with pigs that day…

      like you gonna tell me i gotta learn something and i got a lifelong vendettea? yea ok.. you got some real abusers’ logic going on there..

      like you rattling all of the people you had beef with and where the whole site tells you to go cool it… and i have never had a problem with anyone on this site before you… well besides E and ted nelson… what does that tell you?

      like it might be ok for you and them that you just keep going at them and shrug it off.. and i did for a time myself.. but if it’s a constant thing i’m sorry i’m not that guy…. and this might come as a familiar thing for you but i’m your problem now and you just gotta deal with it….

    61. JK47: JK47
      August 23, 2021 at 3:58 pm
      I’ve fully lost track of what we’re even arguing about re: Kemba.

      I follow the Knicks and this site pretty closely and honestly I have no idea what the argument is about.

      It’s pretty silly, started with me and Brian complimenting the FO for getting Kemba on a 2-year deal rather than a 1 year w/ or w/o a player option. Some posters (one in particular) took exception to giving the FO any credit whatsoever. At the end of the day, it’s a win-win situation so who cares? Certainly not worth accusations of fellating the FO for proffering a rosy take.

    62. Some posters (one in particular) took exception to giving the FO any credit whatsoever.

      no it’s more like someone was making outrageous claims .. got called out on it.. and now i’m a homophobe…

      when i’m the only one bothering to back anything i’ve said… ironic take from the biggest snowflake on this site who takes any criticism of the front office personally… oh yea certainly not fellating the front office when you’re making fantastical claims that you can’t prove and then giving them credit for those made up things…

      yea totally not fellating things there…

    63. at this point I’m advocating for a three-month ban for anyone who continues with the petty squabbling

      or just shut the fuck up, which is free and requires neither Brian nor any other admin to do any work to resolve the situation

      trying to be The New and Improved Jowles but also it might be time to SHUT THE FUCK UP

    64. Funny how Brian found a way to disagree with a speculative wondering I had (certainly not a claim at all) without employing(take your pick) homophobic/misogynistic/pornographic metaphors.

    65. If you think using fellating as insult doesn’t have homophobic connotations you’re completely clueless. I doubt you’re homophobic but fellating is considered derogatory by straight males at least in part because it’s something that only women and gay/bi men do and god forbid you act like either one of those. That’s woke 101 and it’s disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

    66. nicos:
      If you think using fellating as insult doesn’t have homophobic connotations you’re completely clueless. I doubt you’re homophobic but fellating is considered derogatory by straight males at least in part because it’s something that only women and gay/bi men do and god forbid you act like either one of those. That’s woke 101 and it’s disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

      Thanks, nicos. Maybe it will sink in coming from someone else.

    67. at this point I’m advocating for a three-month ban for anyone who continues with the petty squabbling

      awesome i agree…. anyone else?

    68. “The world is too fucked up for me to nitpick the Knicks right now when they’re pulling all the right strings and actually bringing some joy into my life.”

      Amen Swift, Amen.

      I’m a longtime lurker on this site and remember those bobneptune days when he was spewing conspiracy theories out of his ass and Jowles and others gave him the old “what did the five fingers say to the face?” treatment. Not saying it’s reaching that territory yet but its getting there.

      I agree this dj vs Zman shit has gotten personal and maybe needs a timeout – for both the sake of the two posters and the site. I understand it’s the dog days of the offseason and we are all eager for some Knicks basketball to start up again, but the forum is really being dominated by petty squabbles, disagreements over every little thing, and correct terminology to use. It’s becoming less about Knicks stuff. I know that comes with the territory but this is getting ridiculous. Come on y’all, lets move on.

    69. at this point I’m advocating for a three-month ban for anyone who continues with the petty squabbling

      I agree this dj vs Zman shit has gotten personal and maybe needs a timeout

      i agree… and this is what i wanted the whole time…

      who else? let’s make this happen…

    70. I don’t understand this Kemba argument at all. The guy signed for two years bc he had two years left on his deal and he didn’t want to lose money.

      That’s the very heart of the question. Would he be losing money if he signed a one-year deal with the Knicks? There’s likely two scenarios for Kemba this season. One, he’s healthy and therefore he’d make more than $9 million on the open market next season or two, he’s not healthy and he wouldn’t make more than $9 million on the open market next season (and might not even make more than the minimum). Clearly, then, the best hedge for him in that scenario would be to take a one year deal with a player option for the second year. So if he is good, he turns it down and gets a bigger deal and if he is hurt, he’s still guaranteed roughly getting as much as he would have gotten under his original Boston contract.

      He didn’t do that, though. He took a guaranteed two-year deal where now, if he comes back healthy, the Knicks get the benefit of his success by having him for below market rate next season and if he is not healthy, then the Knicks lose out and he gets the money. That’s ultimately a very good deal for the Knicks.

      Since the player option gives him all of the upside, it’s notable that he did not get that deal. It’s a better deal for the Knicks that he’s guaranteed for next year, and it’s such a better deal that it is either a notable success that they got him to take it, or, in the alternative, perhaps worrisome that Walker wasn’t confident in his ability to get $9 million next year on the open market. Almost certainly, he asked for the 1+1 and the Knicks said no, so why did he say yes to a deal without a 1+1? Is Rose just a really great negotiator or does Kemba know something about his health that we don’t?

      It is also notable that OKC clearly has no problem with just telling a veteran player to go home while they wait to see if they can trade their salary to some other team, as they just did it with Al Horford last season. So the general consensus around the league (and why I don’t think the Knicks were planning on Kemba being available) is that that was what OKC was going to do, just sit on Kemba until someone came a-calling trying to do a Horford-type trade for Kemba (you know, dump a salary and give OKC a pick in the process). They didn’t do that, though, which could also suggest that they didn’t think Kemba was going to be healthy enough to ever trade.

      Or not. There’s a lot of mystery surrounding Kemba’s knee, but I think the contract issues involved in getting Kemba on a guaranteed two-year deal are quite interesting.

    71. Since the player option gives him all of the upside, it’s notable that he did not get that deal.

      I guess it depends on what you expect. I personally don’t find it very notable bc I would not expect Kemba Walker to be in a position to ask for that.

      To me, this is like saying “great job not giving Evan Fournier a no trade clause.”

      We gave Kemba ~98% of the money guaranteed in his deal and took him from a bad basketball situation to a great one. Isn’t that enough? Why would we give him more?

    72. If you think using fellating as insult doesn’t have homophobic connotations you’re completely clueless. I doubt you’re homophobic but fellating is considered derogatory by straight males at least in part because it’s something that only women and gay/bi men do and god forbid you act like either one of those. That’s woke 101 and it’s disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

      there’s nothing clueless about it…. ‘fellating the front office’ is not homophobic like at all…. what if i used ‘jerk off the front office?’… is that also a homophobic term? what if it was just a foot massage? it’s so stupid that we have to go the gradient of wokeness here…

      like i can’t believe these people who probably have never interacted with gay people at all telling me what they think they would get offended by it…. peak asshole behavior…..

    73. We gave Kemba ~98% of the money guaranteed in his deal and took him from a bad basketball situation to a great one. Isn’t that enough? Why would we give him more?

      Why would Kemba Walker think that he was unlikely to make Alec Burks money on the open market next year?

    74. If Mitch is not working out, I could see a Turner trade after 12/15. I believe Toppin, Knox, Robinson and either Vildoza or a side of Bacon, plus the Charlotte 1st would work.

    75. Why would Kemba Walker think that he was unlikely to make Alec Burks money on the open market next year?

      why did kemba give back money when we just gave taj gibson free money for .. i don’t know what.. but it just came in a giant magic suitcase….

      if kemba had any leverage at all… why is he giving up that money that freely?

    76. There’s a lot of mystery surrounding Kemba’s knee,

      I think there’s less mystery when you read some of the doctor’s reports during his time in Boston.

      The doctors consider his knee more problematical than an ACL or meniscus surgery because you eventually recover from those and often even get back to 100% or at least close. Kemba’s knee is never going to get better. The idea is to try to manage the swelling and pain and hope he’s productive for a decent number of games and the playoffs. At his former salary, it made no sense. That’s why Boston dumped him and OKC eventually realized no one was crazy enough to trade for him. At the salary we are paying him it’s probably worth a gamble given how desperately we needed another PG. I assume we are going to manage him like Boston and limit his minutes in the regular season hoping to save him for the playoffs. It didn’t work for Boston, but maybe we’ll have better luck. Even though I love Thibs overall, there is some risk he’ll overdo it and then do the same to Rose and we are going to be screwed at PG again.

    77. @TNFH Glad to find another Koronet fan. Most of my freshman 15 could be attributed to late night visits there.

    78. why did kemba give back money when we just gave taj gibson free money for .. i don’t know what.. but it just came in a giant magic suitcase….

      He gave back money to become a free agent, as otherwise, OKC would have just sat on him for two years. So he got to become a free agent by giving up $20 million and would almost certainly get at least $6 million of that back no matter who he signed with, so it was really more like a $14 million cut. But then why give up his freedom for next offseason?

    79. I see your point, Brian. I just see the risk for Kemba, as well. This was his biggest contract, and it could be his last. So I would expect him to want to make sure he earned as much of it as possible.

      It’s different than Blake Griffin. Blake had made $225mm already and was ok giving up some money to go to a contender.

    80. GHenman:
      If Mitch is not working out, I could see a Turner trade after 12/15. I believe Toppin, Knox, Robinson and either Vildoza or a side of Bacon, plus the Charlotte 1st would work.

      1. I think we are probably going to try to get Mitch’s value back up before we consider trading him. So hopefully he gets off to a good start.

      2. If Indiana doesn’t think Turner and Sabonis are a good fit, I can’t see how they’ll think Mitch and Sabonis are a good fit. The Knicks goal may be to get Turner, but it might require a three team trade or we may just make two unrelated trades, one to move Mitch for something we value and one to try to land Turner, but that’s seems even tougher than a three team trade.

    81. It’s different than Blake Griffin. Blake had made $225mm already and was ok giving up some money to go to a contender.

      Yes, he definitely wasn’t at Blake Griffin level, money-wise (few players are), but he had already made $150 million before this season (not counting his OKC buyout money), so it wasn’t like he was coming off a rookie deal.

    82. I’ve pretty much said all I have to say on the matter and am satisfied that the board knows who each of us is. And I have great deference for the New and Improved Jowles, although the old Jowles was way more entertaining.

    83. 2. If Indiana doesn’t think Turner and Sabonis are a good fit, I can’t see how they’ll think Mitch and Sabonis are a good fit. The Knicks goal may be to get Turner, but it might require a three team trade or we may just make two unrelated trades, one to move Mitch for something we value and one to try to land Turner, but that’s seems even tougher than a three team trade.

      Yeah, I don’t see how you’d ever deal Turner for Mitch if you’re Indy for that very reason.

    84. @D Indiana would only do it if Turner wanted out, which he might. He seems to not like his role there. Mitch could back up Sabonis and either could play with Toppin. They could also bring in a third team for Mitch.

    85. He gave back money to become a free agent, as otherwise, OKC would have just sat on him for two years.

      yup kemba gave up 20mm total from okc.. the knicks signed him for…. 2 yrs at 18mm (thanks pt)..

      so that means kemba is missing 2mm (20mm – 18mm) from his original contractual obligations..

      during all this… we also agreed with taj originally to a 1yr – vet min deal.. which for whatever reason… magically morphed to a 2 yr 10mm deal...

      for anyone who thinks he had all this leverage to demand a player option.. why did kemba also let any amount of money go during all this when we clearly had the ability to give him the delta?

    86. what if it was just a foot massage?

      i am so weak…
      Jules : Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa… stop right there. Eatin’ a bitch out, and givin’ a bitch a foot massage ain’t even the same fuckin’ thing.

      Vincent : It’s not. It’s the same ballpark.

      Jules : Ain’t no fuckin’ ballpark neither. Now look, maybe your method of massage differs from mine, but, you know, touchin’ his wife’s feet, and stickin’ your tongue in her Holiest of Holies, ain’t the same fuckin’ ballpark, it ain’t the same league, it ain’t even the same fuckin’ sport. Look, foot massages don’t mean shit.

      Vincent : Have you ever given a foot massage?

      Jules : [scoffs] Don’t be tellin’ me about foot massages. I’m the foot fuckin’ master.

      Vincent : Given a lot of ’em?

      Jules : Shit yeah. I got my technique down and everything, I don’t be ticklin’ or nothin’.

      Vincent : Would you give a guy a foot massage?

      [Jules gives Vincent a long look, realizing he’s been set up]

      Jules : Fuck you.

      Vincent : You give them a lot?

      Jules : Fuck you.

      Vincent : You know, I’m getting kinda tired. I could use a foot massage myself.

      Jules : Man, you best back off, I’m gittin’ a little pissed here.

      and this might come as a familiar thing for you but i’m your problem now and you just gotta deal with it….


      not judging
      , but, that may be a party foul there…

    87. djphan: there’s nothing clueless about it…. ‘fellating the front office’ is not homophobic like at all…. what if i used ‘jerk off the front office?’… is that also a homophobic term?what if it was just a foot massage?it’s so stupid that we have to go the gradient of wokeness here…

      like i can’t believe these people who probably have never interacted with gay people at all telling me what they think they would get offended by it….peak asshole behavior…..

      I’m gay so… I don’t get offended when people say suck my dick but I have friends who do for exactly the reasons I mentioned. The fact you didn’t mean it that way doesn’t mean it can’t be meant that way.

    88. so that means kemba is missing 2mm (20mm – 18mm) from his original contractual obligations..

      Right, but again, that just suggests that Kemba thought he wouldn’t be able to get Alec Burks money next offseason and that’s presumably an odd position for him to be taking.

    89. we really don’t know how much credit the front office should get. it seems like kemba had at least some leverage (on the knicks) and would chase the marginal dollar, but it’s possible he said ‘fuck it this is a nearly ideal turn of events’ and just took the deal offered. and of course it’s also possible, as brian and others have noted, he was so scared about his knee he didn’t value his 22-23 optionality highly.

      another semi-irrational but yet plausible possibility hasn’t been mentioned. presumably presti has agreed to rip up the set-off rights that are in almost every nba contract in the event a player doesn’t last the contract term. what if presti was okay with giving up those rights in this deal (in exchange for the $20mm haircut), but less so in a straight buyout without 21-22 fully accounted for? why would he possibly care, $20m is $20m, right? well let’s say kemba has a miraculously healthy 21-22 and so got max-money or close in 22-23. then presti has to spend the year reading articles [sexually pleasing via a preference agnostic mechanism] kemba’s agent for getting him $28m from tank-happy presti plus another $40m in the same year. perk would start calling him maxi pad presti. that wouldn’t be fun.

      but it’s also plausible that kemba’s agent did in fact ask for a player option or a one year deal and the knicks won the negotiation by standing firm. both sides, after all, had last least some leverage here. you’d really have to be in the room to know whether grandpa was more of a bossy bottom or a butch top. you can’t just reason your way into it.

    90. maybe we can get your representatives vs my representatives to settle this but i know i’ve come across enough gay people across the spectrum in my life and in my social circles to know that the vast vast majority don’t feel the same way as some of your friends…. most of whom will even use the same terminology themselves in both and in and out group setting….

      so i’m sorry to your friends but i don’t think i have to apologize to most gay people when i talk about sexual acts in a neutral way…. on the gradient of offensive it’s not even surpassing ‘suck my dick’ so i’m sure i didn’t break some geneva convention…

    91. you’d really have to be in the room to know whether grandpa was more of a bossy bottom or a butch top. you can’t just reason your way into it.

      hahahahahahahahahahahahahahh this thread is back on track

    92. ptmilo:
      we really don’t know how much credit the front office should get.it seems like kemba had at least some leverage (on the knicks) and would chase the marginal dollar, but it’s possible he said ‘fuck it this is a nearly ideal turn of events’ and just took the deal offered.and of course it’s also possible, as brian and others have noted, he was so scared about his knee he didn’t value his 22-23 optionality highly.

      another semi-irrational but yet plausible possibility hasn’t been mentioned.presumably presti has agreed to rip up the set-off rights that are in almost every nba contract in the event a player doesn’t last the contract term.what if presti was okay with giving up those rights in this deal (in exchange for the $20mm haircut), but less so in a straight buyout without 21-22 fully accounted for?why would he possibly care, $20m is $20m, right?well let’s say kemba has a miraculously healthy 21-22 and so got max-money or close in 22-23.then presti has to spend the year reading articles [sexually pleasing via a preference agnostic mechanism] kemba’s agent for getting him $28m from tank-happy presti plus another $40m in the same year.perk would start calling him maxi pad presti.that wouldn’t be fun.

      but it’s also plausible that kemba’s agent did in fact ask for a player option or a one year deal and the knicks won the negotiation by standing firm.both sides, after all, had last least some leverage here.you’d really have to be in the room to know whether grandpa was more of a bossy bottom or a butch top.you can’t just reason your way into it.

      My eyes glazed over halfway through this and I still laughed my ass off!

    93. was that an intentional White Lotus reference, ptmilo, or did it just lodge in your subconscious and find its way out?

    94. speaking of pizza, if you’re ever out in the east end of Long Island, Best Pizza in Amagansett is really good.

    95. You’d really have to be in the room to know whether grandpa was more of a bossy bottom or a butch top. you can’t just reason your way into it.

      nicos.. is this homophobe or not .. according to you and your friends? if not.. what’s the difference?

    96. The squabbling is lowering the quality of the threads here at KB, but also I don’t think banning two of the board’s most consistent (and quality, imo) posters is the right way to resolve the issue. Most of these issues driving the conflict have been issues of tone on both sides, and at this point I think the squabbling just become self-sustaining because both sides are on a hair-trigger given their history. I think you’re both intelligent and big enough to simply bury the hatchet and stick to the arguments, if you really want to. So you both should!

      Re: the use of ‘fellating’, as someone who’s a bisexual man: it doesn’t bother me, but I wouldn’t be surprised if many gay or bisexual men disliked the connotation it has (after all, it’s closely related to an obviously homophobic slur in ‘cocksucker’). So perhaps replacing it with the less loaded “jerking off” would in fact be better!

      Also, I think I’m going to call the Knicks at 47 wins this year. This is pricing in the improved depth and perhaps some mild regression from Randle and Rose. It’s gonna be a fun season!

    97. Also ptmilo wins yet another thread, we should just all be banned and let KB be him posting into the void

    98. yes that was an intentional white lotus insertion, so to speak. since i’ve dedicated most of the last couple of weeks trying to decide if i could come up a better book than blink by gladwell for shane to reading the same page of for several days, i can’t help but drop it into my orthogonal ramblings.

    99. The ellipses are the most maddening.

      nooooooooo, ellipses are our friends…

      there is so much unnecessary punctuation in punctuation…better to eliminate all that crap institutionalized by the man to keep us down, and let us all communicate freely, with ellipses in place of all other punctuational baggage…

    100. Right, but again, that just suggests that Kemba thought he wouldn’t be able to get Alec Burks money next offseason and that’s presumably an odd position for him to be taking.

      I don’t assume he thought of it that way. Lots of people like having a stable good situation for their job (and hate to have to physically move cities too). Maybe they have family, kids in school, a girl friend who doesn’t want to move or whatever. I suspect Kemba might just have been happy to be in a place he liked for the next two years. For another case of this, think Julius Randle. I remember a lot of angst here that he would not sign an extension and then would go for a max contract in a year and be overpaid. Lots of people were assuming he’d go for the most possible money. But he didn’t. And when this site posted a poll what would we each do personally, well over half the responders would have signed the extension. Kemba also took the option with certainty and it doesn’t have to have been all about health calculations on his part.

    101. I don’t think banning two of the board’s most consistent (and quality, imo) posters is the right way to resolve the issue.

      i think a temp ban should send a message that attacking people isn’t ok …. it’s the internet and i know hostility comes with the territory but far too often people will just outright accuse others of bias or just be outright hostile at someone for having a different opinion than you…. there’s no reason on a knicks site it should be this hostile this often…

      so no.. if you want things to actually improve i would come off the ‘these guys are doin good’ thing… because you can say that maybe a half dozen more times before you start realizing that we’re not… we’re being selfish.. it’s making others hostile and pick sides(well maybe for team pom-pom)…. there’s so many interesting things to talk about but we can’t talk about it without triggering people….

      and it’s gotten a lot worse since my first plea of a mutual ban…. i’m pretty sure we’re going to be here in not too long and we’ll be worse off… i’ve been in many internet communities and let me tell you… people don’t really get the message about this stuff until they get banned…. z-man is pretty much the stereotypical internet bully that ain’t gonna learn until the community tells him and he’s absolutely been a repeat offender… and i’m not so innocent either so we should get put in a corner and told to change our behavior and hopefully we can learn to be nicer for it..

      until then we’ll be back here and the community will keep shrinking because all we talk about is how we talk about things…

    102. Today’s discourse has me longing for the days of 500 post threads about whether Frank Ntilikina is not an NBA player or if with enough development he might one day be a solid 11th man.

      Team not an NBA player is solidly in the lead just so we’re all clear!

    103. this isn’t even a fun fight to read bc you guys have no sense of humor. Angry Jowles was at least a good read. Mix in a joke or something.

    104. Kemba’s agent probably asked for a player option and Leon Rose probably said he’d strongly prefer to have more certainty about the roster moving forward and since Kemba is getting nearly all of the money he thought he’d be getting for the duration of his contract and is comfortable living in NY he didn’t really care to press the issue

    105. you keep wanting to relinquish control of your behavior…

      you are in control…okay, maybe that’s a little overblown – you have the ability to control, that’s better…stop abdicating though, that’s weakness personified, and you are not weak…

      and yes, even if you’re not entirely feeling it – you must still give us jowles performances from time to time…maybe the missus can ghost write some THCJ posts for us on occasion

    106. ooops, this post should have been on its own:

      and yes, even if you’re not entirely feeling it – you must still give us jowles performances from time to time…maybe the missus can ghost write some THCJ posts for us on occasion

    107. djphan:
      maybe we can get your representatives vs my representatives to settle this but i know i’ve come across enough gay people across the spectrum in my life and in my social circles to know that the vast vast majority don’t feel the same way as some of your friends…. most of whom will even use the same terminology themselves in both and in and out group setting….

      so i’m sorry to your friends but i don’t think i have to apologize to most gay people when i talk about sexual acts in a neutral way…. on the gradient of offensive it’s not even surpassing ‘suck my dick’ so i’m sure i didn’t break some geneva convention…

      Congrats – you’ve met the minimum required number of homosexuals to make generalizations about what they should be offended about.

      Seriously, is that how you want to approach this? Trying to convince people who are offended by what you say that they should not be offended? The fact that people are offended is proof your sample size of “enough” is clearly not enough.

      Rather than try to convince them they are wrong for being offended how about apologizing and moving on.

      Love the way both grimes and mcbride square up to the basket…

    108. Mitch “ isn’t blessed with a high basketball IQ”. GTFO with this shit.

      Some other bizarre and quite frankly offensive tidbits in there too. Like, what the fuck is this:

      One concern will always be whether the New Orleans product will lose a trace of motivation with all that guaranteed money.

      Maybe I’m being overly sensitive, but the gratuitous reference to his hometown rubbed me the wrong way.

    109. The great James Baldwin famously said, “I can’t be a pessimist because I am alive.”

      Can not the same be said of Knicks fans? Are not the conflicts that supposedly divide us into warring camps of optimist v. pessimist secondary to the fact that every one of us still bothers to tune in whenever the Knicks play? Seems to me a true pessimist would’ve checked out years ago following the steady diet of shit sandwiches that have been served up by Dolan & Co. over the years. I’d submit that there are few acts more optimistic than continuing to follow, to care about, to invest hope in a woebegone franchise that has done so little to requite the passion of its fan base for so long. We are all optimists on this bus.

      So Kumbaya, motherfuckers.

    110. Rather than try to convince them they are wrong for being offended how about apologizing and moving on.

      we have a gay and bisexual man who both said they weren’t offended…. i don’t have to apologize to anyone here… if any homosexual man is offended then i’ll be happy to apologize to them… but no i’m not apologizing to anyone who is trying to speak for the entire group themselves… nor am i gonna take some finger wagging from some fake woke people using some mild phrasing to paint me in an unfair light when others use actual homosexual terms and doesn’t get half the shit….

      i’m very comfortable in my phrasing for all the reasons i stated so i’m not gonna take accusations of homophobia lying down… if i offend specific narrow groups of people.. i will explain and apologize.. but no i’m not gonna just take some fake woke ppl’s word for it because they have an axe to grind with me…

    111. If we can get Mitch at 4/44 and we have no reason to doubt his long-term health (and there’s no publicly available reason to, imo), then sign me up. He will at least produce value commensurate to that deal, and will likely outperform it even if he doesn’t improve all that much over the course of the contract. It also gives us a further trade chip and makes Noel fairly movable if we want that. Seems like a no-brainer to me.

    112. you mean like masochism really equals optimism, or vice versa?

      that would be interesting if we got the mitch extension done prior to the season, not expecting it though…11 million aav seems fair at the moment…

      i have a feeling though with how relatively frugal this front office is contract wise, i’m not so sure sure we’ll be able to work things out with mitch and agent number six anytime soon…

    113. that jones fracture isn’t career ending but it is a career risk…. especially with the weight gain and his size.. so i might be hesitant on a real long extension because of that…

      but at his best.. he’s the quintessential rim running big who you can build a playoff team capable of a deep run around…. and inferior rim running bigs just got a decent amt of money…

      i don’t think 11mm aav will do it.. i hope it does…. i think we’re looking ~15mm aav and timelord’s deal as well as jarrett allen’s has got to be informing this one…. the thing that’s suppressing his value at the moment is the lack of teams with cap space next year tho so he can’t really be asking for allen type of money… but i think timelord’s is very possible….

    114. LET ME BE CLEAR.

      The litmus test of being hateful (racist, sexist, homophobic, etc.) isn’t whether the (potential) offender and their group of acquaintances isn’t offended by it. It isn’t whether there was intent or not. It’s whether a reasonable number of people are offended. For example: if you say “girls” and your adult female friends are OK with that, but some other women aren’t — IT’S OFFENSIVE! PERIOD!

      Also they don’t even need to be in that group. I’m not a woman, but there are plenty of derogatory terms for women that I’m offended by. And I won’t stand there if someone uses those terms, even if women aren’t around. (Or terms offensive to other groups.)

      So it’s not enough that some LGBTQ people are OK with “fellate” as an insult, if other people are not.

      And I’ll add, just because you used an offensive term doesn’t make you an intolerant person (homophobe). First off, the intent may not have been there and that would likely be obvious to all observers.

      Second, I don’t think racism is necessarily a binary thing. For example people can say racist things without being racist, and people can be racist without every saying a racist word. People can be prejudiced to one group, and still have friends within that same group!

      Given those two, having to backtrack, apologize, or show contrition for such a faux pas, isn’t admission that you’re a bigot. In fact it’s quite the opposite.

      So that said – let’s drop the offensive terms, period.

    115. djphan: and told to change our behavior and hopefully we can learn to be nicer for it..

      Dude, just do it. Stop writing and complaining about not doing it. Just do it.

      Sincerely,

      Nike

    116. *you mean like masochism really equals optimism, or vice versa?*

      Yeah, I think that’s kinda what Jimmy B was saying. Living itself often seems like an exercise in masochism given how often & how much shit the world will fling in the direction of anyone who just happens to be, y’know, alive. Just the fact of getting up and facing another day when things seem utterly hopeless can be said to be the act of an optimist.

      So, yeah, I guess one can say that Knicks fans are optimists in that same, masochistic way.

    117. So it’s not enough that some LGBTQ people are OK with “fellate” as an insult, if other people are not.

      i’ll just say that a lot of folks are trying to paint it as a homophobic term purely because it’s me who said it as we have many people who do reference blatant sexual acts… as well as blatant homosexual acts in the same flippant way and we don’t have nearly the same outcry.. that’s a bit of a double standard isn’t against me?

      It’s whether a reasonable number of people are offended.

      i really don’t think a reasonable number would be offended and of course i’m not the sole arbiter of this but i don’t think anyone else is here either.. and for those who are i will apologize but i’m not gonna sit here and be accused of using a homophobic slur in one side of the mouth and then laughing at other homosexual jokes out the other side of the same mouth… absolutely not…

    118. Dude, just do it. Stop writing and complaining about not doing it. Just do it.

      what you think i’ve been doing? what do you think happened for six months ? i’ve had to turn the other cheek countless times.. i’m just not doing it for another set of times unless i’m forced to… i don’t know why i have to continually take abusive behavior so other people feel good… i have that right too….

    119. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada:
      The squabbling is lowering the quality of the threads here at KB, but also I don’t think banning two of the board’s most consistent (and quality, imo) posters is the right way to resolve the issue. Most of these issues driving the conflict have been issues of tone on both sides, and at this point I think the squabbling just become self-sustaining because both sides are on a hair-trigger given their history. I think you’re both intelligent and big enough to simply bury the hatchet and stick to the arguments, if you really want to. So you both should!

      Re: the use of ‘fellating’, as someone who’s a bisexual man: it doesn’t bother me, but I wouldn’t be surprised if many gay or bisexual men disliked the connotation it has (after all, it’s closely related to an obviously homophobic slur in ‘cocksucker’). So perhaps replacing it with the less loaded “jerking off” would in fact be better!

      Also, I think I’m going to call the Knicks at 47 wins this year. This is pricing in the improved depth and perhaps some mild regression from Randle and Rose. It’s gonna be a fun season!

      Thanks Silky, much appreciated.

    120. Mitch for 11 million per seems like a no brainer. You can never have too many centers has always been my belief.

      Berman chose a strange way to allude to Mitch’s character issues, I have to agree.

    121. Mike Kurylo:
      LET ME BE CLEAR.

      The litmus test of being hateful (racist, sexist, homophobic, etc.)isn’t whether the (potential) offender and their group of acquaintances isn’t offended by it. It isn’t whether there was intent or not. It’s whether a reasonable number of people are offended. For example: if you say “girls” and your adult female friends are OK with that, but some other women aren’t — IT’S OFFENSIVE! PERIOD!

      Also they don’t even need to be in that group. I’m not a woman, but there are plenty of derogatory terms for women that I’m offended by. And I won’t stand there if someone uses those terms, even if women aren’t around. (Or terms offensive to other groups.)

      So it’s not enough that some LGBTQ people are OK with “fellate” as an insult, if other people are not.

      And I’ll add, just because you used an offensive term doesn’t make you an intolerant person (homophobe). First off, the intent may not have been there and that would likely be obvious to all observers.

      Second, I don’t think racism is necessarily a binary thing. For example people can say racist things without being racist, and people can be racist without every saying a racist word. People can be prejudiced to one group, and still have friends within that same group!

      Given those two, having to backtrack, apologize, or show contrition for such a faux pas, isn’t admission that you’re a bigot. In fact it’s quite the opposite.

      So that said – let’s drop the offensive terms, period.

      Thanks, Mike. Always like when that classic avatar pops up!

    122. “a reasonable amount of people” know that to verbally fellate someone means to heap excessive praise on someone for performing mundane tasks. Just let it go. The only thing that could make this thread worse is someone coming on telling us why they won’t get vaxxed.

    123. Hubert:
      this isn’t even a fun fight to read bc you guys have no sense of humor. Angry Jowles was at least a good read. Mix in a joke or something.

      Damn, Hubert, that hurts, I worked hard on that Steely Dan parody…

    124. Personally, I won’t get vaxxed because I am already a lizard person, so getting the mRNA to lizardize my DNA would just be duplicative.

    125. thenoblefacehumper
      August 23, 2021 at 8:23 pm

      Mitch “ isn’t blessed with a high basketball IQ”. GTFO with this shit.

      Some other bizarre and quite frankly offensive tidbits in there too. Like, what the fuck is this:

      One concern will always be whether the New Orleans product will lose a trace of motivation with all that guaranteed money.

      Maybe I’m being overly sensitive, but the gratuitous reference to his hometown rubbed me the wrong way.

      Marc Berman is such a piece of shit. One of the joys of the press conferences last year was seeing Thibs and the players smirking and laughing at the stupid ass questions he gave. I think one time Thibs said “Boy Marc you really bringing out the joy in that question. Been doing that for many years” – or something to that effect. And this article is prob the result of Mitch Rob shunning Berman for interviews. OR Berman is such garbage. I’m thinking the latter

    126. Some other bizarre and quite frankly offensive tidbits in there too. Like, what the fuck is this:

      Not only is he offensive in the article, but it seems practically like he’s trying to negotiate for the Knicks. “Yes, Robert Williams got 4/$54, but that’s an outlier because…reasons. And I’m not even going to mention Jarrett Allen’s 5/$100 in my article despite Mitch being very similar to him for…reasons.”

    127. SoNiceWeShowItTwice: Marc Berman is such a piece of shit.

      Yes he is.

      I think we should delete all posts that target another poster with a warning and a count. It should be replaced by:
      PosterHandle had his 2nd post deleted for targeting another poster. The next one will be his last for a week.
      Really guys, nobody comes here for that – nobody.

      Mike Kurylo: The litmus test of being hateful (racist, sexist, homophobic, etc.) isn’t whether the (potential) offender and their group of acquaintances isn’t offended by it. It isn’t whether there was intent or not. It’s whether a reasonable number of people are offended. For example: if you say “girls” and your adult female friends are OK with that, but some other women aren’t — IT’S OFFENSIVE! PERIOD!

      Mike, we disagree about “It isn’t whether there was intent or not.” Something can be offensive and not intentionally hateful. Connotation is not always obvious. Repeating something that was offensive after being told it’s offensive is hateful because it was intentional.

      Anecdote: Many decades ago I managed a team. I referred to them as “my people” and it created an uproar amongst the black community where I worked. “They are not your property!” they said. The uproar only sbusided after I brought in a book written by Abba Eban, the first foreign minister of Israel, entitled “My People”. Once they understood that the phrase connotes team, inclusion and belonging, the issue subsided. For Jews, who have a major holiday that celebrates liberation from slavery, the practice of slavery is an abomination.

      But I learned, perhaps the hard way, that the phrase offended them and I was careful to never use it again.

    128. Personally, I won’t get vaxxed because I am already a lizard person, so getting the mRNA to lizardize my DNA would just be duplicative.

      :)

    129. Berman would never write that about a white player, that’s for sure. Same thing as baseball writers complaining about Gary Sanchez’s supposed laziness behind the plate. Infuriating.

    130. I was offended by djphan’s comment, but whatever. What’s more offensive is the inability to apologize or let it go because “snowflake.” Funny no one ever calls me a snowflake to my face….

      At any rate, I’m reasonably pleased with where we ended up, though I lost some confidence in the FO when the move I was expecting after trading #19 never materialized. It’s possible we knew we’d get Kemba, but if not, we could have gone into the season with almost the same problem we had last year: a talent deficit at point guard. Yes, we brought back Rose (which I kind of wish we hadn’t), but he needs to be on a minutes restriction, and without Kemba, who’s taking those other 2000 minutes? Quick hasn’t really shown he can be a PG. Maybe that’s why they prioritized Burks over Bullock – he can fill in in a pinch. I wish I thought Kemba was the plan all along, because it’s an acceptable risk with high potential reward, but I’m not convinced. I think they got lucky…though it is indeed better to be lucky than good sometimes.

      Still, we did get Kemba, and if Kemba is 60% of the player he was over 1600 minutes, and Rose is what he was last year over 1600 minutes, we’re going to win a LOT of games. Still probably a first round out, but I could see 50. I’d put money on 48. Maybe I should…

    131. so mike k got me curious about ‘reasonable amount’ meant so i asked gaybros on reddit just in case i was crazy.. and as i back everything i say .. so here are the first 5 comments..

      Wow they were reaching real hard

      I personally don’t give a shit but obviously the most sensitive are going to be the loudest when it comes to what words are not acceptable for use.

      It’s like the saying to kiss someone’s ass idk what the big deal is tbh

      Not homophobic.

      The person who called you a homophobe is a whiny dullard looking to paint themselves as the victim or alternatively looking for some points. Does that answer your question?

      The word ‘fellate’ is sexuality-neutral, it’s not homophobic, so it’s a misplaced criticism of you. That aside, ppl often react weirdly to some expressions and if you’re going to use something you consider a ‘colorful’ expression, you’ll just have to wear that you might offend someone along the way sometimes.

      that’s not to say 5 random gaybros on the internet are the arbiters of what is and isn’t offensive to gaybros but i think we can say with some level of certainty that it’s not really getting the pitchfork effect that some might lead you to believe… just like i wouldn’t offend gay people or women when i say we got ‘bent over’ in a deal… and i certainly wouldn’t have to apologize because some ppl were clutching their pearls over this.. oh wait sorry that might’ve been sexist!

      this is so stupid that i can’t believe i have to defend myself over this.. but i reached out anyway to a 250k member community to get their take.. so here i am.. i am dropping this now but i had to get this last word in… thank you…

    132. I think they could easily match that TimeLord extension without any problems to the team’s overall cap situation going forward.

    133. Brian Cronin:
      I think they could easily match that TimeLord extension without any problems to the team’s overall cap situation going forward.

      Is there some sort of deadline to get a Mitch deal done? It would see that waiting until he plays a few regular season games would be a good idea…

    134. I feel like Walker does have financial interest in a two-year deal with NY because, if he plays well and the Knicks want to keep him in 2023, they can go over the cap and give him more than any other team could. So, yes, it’s good that the Knicks put themselves in a position for a good but damaged player to want to sign with them, but the alternative for him was spending two years in street clothes watching his team lose on purpose. It’s one of those rare deals where everybody involved goes home happy. That’s pretty cool, but not exactly a coup d’etat.

    135. Also, catching up on this thread makes me think of Flossy, the first openly-gay regular here at KB. Hoping he is still with us under a different handle, or has moved on to a better place (like milwaukeebucksblogger.org).

    136. “Girls” can now be offensive if ONE person is offended by it and can no longer be used?
      Ok, got it. Word police rules – very, very confusing. I’ll pass and use my own judgement thank you.

      Mitch at 4/for 44 mill seems like a team friendly deal. I don’t think he and his new agent will accept that as a market deal. My guess is it will take at least 15 mill per year to get him to sign.

    137. Is there some sort of deadline to get a Mitch deal done? It would see that waiting until he plays a few regular season games would be a good idea…

      The rules are confusing as fuck, but after reading a lot about it, I think that A. yes, the Knicks can extend Mitch during the season. but that’s obviously a huge double-edged sword, right? Since if he plays well enough for them to want to extend him, he presumably would not want to take the extension offered, because…. B. they would limited to a 4-year/$48 million extension (Williams, as a first round pick, was eligible to sign a rookie contract extension, which is for more money). This is because of a rule that says for Mitch’s type of extension (a non-first round rookie extension and entering the final year of your deal), if you make less than $10 million, the biggest amount you’re allowed to be given in year one is $12 million.

      Therefore, if 4/$48 is the limit, I think you pretty much have to offer that to Mitch before he’s ostensibly “proven” it, because $12 million isn’t likely to be considered worth it to him to take once he has proven it. In other words, getting him to take $12 million likely revolves around him being worried about his health just the same as the Knicks. Once he proves he’s healthy, I doubt he takes $12 million.

    138. Mitch’s limit being 4/$48 sure would explain why Berman was suddenly tossing around 4/$44, right?

    139. Mitch at 4Y/48M is slightly high for my taste but is a fair deal, and once signed he’ll become tradeable if needed (just as Noel).

      My question is, how many dollars are the Knicks willing to spend on defense oriented-offense limited centers?

      It’s true that our “new” roster is full of shooters but it’s still an interesting zag while everyone’s zigging…

    140. My question is, how many dollars are the Knicks willing to spend on defense oriented-offense limited centers?

      I think that with the right PG, Mitch can give you a lot of points in the P&R, he has good hands (unlike Noel).

      I think 48/4 is a fair offer for Mitch, and having Noel on the team as a reminder of being too ambitious with your contract might work on our favor… was he advising Randle to take the extension? :)

    141. If you get Mitch at $12 million, that means you’re paying your two centers $22 million, right? That’s not that much.

    142. Yes and they’re both on manageable contracts but if you add Taj is close to 27M.

      (for me the “morphing” of Taj’s contract is one of the biggest surprises of the offseason).

    143. I’m not saying it’s a bad move,
      with the scarce availability of star centers sharing the cost on two players (or more) can be smart.

      That way you can cover the whole 48 minutes plus is an insurance against possibile injuries.

    144. Yes and they’re both on manageable contracts but if you add Taj is close to 27M.

      (for me the “morphing” of Taj’s contract is one of the biggest surprises of the offseason).

      Yeah, I won’t front, I got nothing on the Taj move. That was pretty much an inexplicable contract. It doesn’t really affect the cap much one way or the other, so whatever, it’s sort of like a retirement gift, I guess, but…yeah…wow, that was certainly unexpected.

    145. since it would kick in next year, we’d only have one season of paying our centers $27mm, and it’s a capped out season anyway. If we can get Mitch for the Williams price I’d do it in a heartbeat.

    146. since it would kick in next year, we’d only have one season of paying our centers $27mm, and it’s a capped out season anyway. If we can get Mitch for the Williams price I’d do it in a heartbeat.

      The trick is that they can’t even offer him the Williams deal, as they’re stuck at $6 million less overall than the Williams deal. So would Mitch take less than Williams? He must think he’s at least as good as Williams, right? If he’s worried about his foot, though, he might take it. It would have to be before the season, though, I bet, as I don’t think he’ll be willing to take $12 million if he comes out and kicks some ass (and if he comes out and flops, I doubt they’d offer him $12 million anymore anyways).

    147. oh, I have overlooked something then. why is there a maximum amount we can extend him for?

    148. oh, I have overlooked something then. why is there a maximum amount we can extend him for?

      He’s not a first round pick, so he’s not eligible for a rookie extension like first round picks are. They’re limited to paying him $12 million a year, but they can extend him during the season, which you can’t with a rookie extension (the theory being that NBA teams didn’t want teams having the drama of whether a top rookie would take an extension to carry into the regular season).

    149. I’m not sure I agree that it has to be before the season because he will have risk of injury throughout the season and if he gets hurt in game 1 or the last game of the playoffs, then he starts presenting as injury-prone and probably no one is paying him 8 figures AAV over 4 years. I think the $12/4 is fair when considering the injury risk but doing it before the season starts is not wise from the Knicks end.

      The Williams contract strikes me as a significant overpay based on what Williams can be, not what he is. That said, if you look at their stats it’s pretty obvious that Williams vastly outplayed Mitch in roughly the same amount of minutes last year. In terms of trajectory, he’s gone from being dead even to being the better player. If the Knicks offer him an 8 figure/4 year deal and he turns it down, I’d be fine with moving on from him.

    150. I’m not sure I agree that it has to be before the season because he will have risk of injury throughout the season and if he gets hurt in game 1 or the last game of the playoffs, then he starts presenting as injury-prone and probably no one is paying him 8 figures AAV over 4 years. I

      True, he could get hurt at any moment, but I don’t think he’s really worried about that once the season gets going. I think he’s worried about whether he’ll be ready to go period. The guy just got his boot taken off, ya know? Now’s the time when he’s the most uncertain about how well he will play this upcoming season, so now’s when you pounce on him. Like the Warriors did with Steph Curry back in the day. Once things gets going, how do you not look at Jarrett Allen’s 5-year/$100 million deal as a restricted free agent if you’re Mitch and not think it’s a better idea to just go for it?

    151. Various, potentially overlapping, rationales for the Taj deal:

      1)Retroactive thanks for overplaying his minimum deal last year. (Though an argument could be made that this was him retroactively earning the $10 mil that we gave him the year before.)
      2)More generally, yet another signal to players/agents that if you come here, get with the program, and play well, you’ll be rewarded.
      3)Team had no other plans to use the room exception this year, and it’s use or lose, so why not do 1 and/or 2?
      4)The higher salary makes Taj yet another player whose contract will be useful salary filler if we aim for a multi-player deal after December 15.

    152. Brian Cronin: True, he could get hurt at any moment, but I don’t think he’s really worried about that once the season gets going. I think he’s worried about whether he’ll be ready to go period. The guy just got his boot taken off, ya know? Now’s the time when he’s the most uncertain about how well he will play this upcoming season, so now’s when you pounce on him. Like the Warriors did with Steph Curry back in the day. Once things gets going, how do you not look at Jarrett Allen’s 5-year/$100 million deal as a restricted free agent if you’re Mitch and not think it’s a better idea to just go for it?

      Well if I’m Mitch I look at both Jarrett Allen and Nerlens Noel and conclude that given that i’ve never played 1500 minutes in a season and am coming off of a very serious foot injury, even if I play like a stud for the first 20 games, I’m taking a huge gamble if I pass up the money. I think the FO is helped by being limited to the $12 million AAV, and can live with it if he turns it down a few games in. They are also helped by the relative abundance of cap-friendly options at the C spot. Locking up Noel for 2 years at a slightly lesser salary probably gives the team a bit of leverage, i.e. security if Mitch plays hardball.

      I think the vast majority of risk is on Mitch’s side. If we lose him to a team willing to pay him Williams money, just find a garden variety 5 to fill the gap.

    153. B. they would limited to a 4-year/$48 million extension

      i believe the rule allows 120% of the average player salary, plus annual raises of up to 8% of the first year of the extension term. this would equate roughly to $56m over 4 years, using $10.4 million as the estimated average salary. i do know that bobby marks at one point tweeted his max at $51 over four years, but i don’t see how that makes sense.

    154. Alan:
      Various, potentially overlapping, rationales for the Taj deal:

      1)Retroactive thanks for overplaying his minimum deal last year. (Though an argument could be made that this was him retroactively earning the $10 mil that we gave him the year before.)
      2)More generally, yet another signal to players/agents that if you come here, get with the program, and play well, you’ll be rewarded.
      3)Team had no other plans to use the room exception this year, and it’s use or lose, so why not do 1 and/or 2?
      4)The higher salary makes Taj yet another player whose contract will be useful salary filler if we aim for a multi-player deal after December 15.

      3 and 4 make the most sense. Certainly Taj deserves praise (lol) for his yeoman’s work last year, and if you just looked at his stats and pencil them in for the next 2 years, he’s actually pretty good value at that price. So adding a “5: He’s worth the money” is not far-fetched if he stays healthy and in shape. Of course he could drop off a cliff at his age, or he might be strictly a deep bench emergency guy who adds veteran leadership, but the guy played his ass off last year.

    155. He’s not a first round pick, so he’s not eligible for a rookie extension like first round picks are. They’re limited to paying him $12 million a year, but they can extend him during the season,

      so wait weren’t people telling me that he didn’t have a max cause we have his bird rights? so this max is just for his extension before he becomes a ufa and when he becomes a ufa that’s when he’s restricted by the veteran max?

      this is the same situation as brunson right?

    156. Taj is also the third string power forward. It still seems like an overcommittment to good defenders who don’t shoot (Taj’s offensive game is sadly the most well rounded of our centers), but it’s really a question of how else they could have used the room exception. They have a deep roster and 14.5 guaranteed contracts at the moment (I’m counting Vildoza as 0.5, because he’s guaranteed for this year if the team wants him to be.) A non-snarky question: who could we have spent that money on if we weren’t going to hand Taj the extra cash?

    157. that’s not to say 5 random gaybros on the internet are the arbiters of what is and isn’t offensive to gaybros but i think we can say with some level of certainty that it’s not really getting the pitchfork effect that some might lead you to believe… just like i wouldn’t offend gay people or women when i say we got ‘bent over’ in a deal… and i certainly wouldn’t have to apologize because some ppl were clutching their pearls over this.. oh wait sorry that might’ve been sexist!

      You know it could be offensive in more than one way? Like not just homophobic. It could be sexist. For instance I wouldn’t say that out loud in the company of women. Or in front of kids under 20. (Maybe 25 or 30, now that I’m older). Actually I wouldn’t say this out loud in public at all.

      Now I might say something like this in a situation with some of my closest friends. People that I’ve known for 10+ years in a lively probably drunken discussion where as a group we’ve accepted that we would cross this line and head into bawdy territory. Of course then it doesn’t mean I wouldn’t offend them either after it came out of my mouth.

      And if one of them said – “hey Mike that’s too far” – I’d stop right there. Because it’s offensive or out of line in some way. I wouldn’t belabor the point. I wouldn’t start asking random strangers if what I said was offensive to their group to prove I was right. And then belittle misogyny while doing so. Unless of course I were really drunk – all of which I would apologize for the next day and feel like an ass afterwards.

      So congratulations, r/gaybros has certified you as not-homophobic. You won that specific argument. But it’s darn inappropriate in a number of ways, and obviously potentially offensive in a number of ways.

      “You’re not wrong Walter…”

    158. So congratulations, r/gaybros has certified you as not-homophobic. You won that specific argument. But it’s darn inappropriate in a number of ways, and obviously potentially offensive in a number of ways.

      sorry mike.. i got called a homophobe… they said it was specifically homophobic… and i went and asked actual neutral random gaybros about this in case i missed something… nobody was accusing me of being offensive in ‘another way’… if there’s anyone under 21 that i need to know about i will apologize… but i can’t believe i’m the first person on this site that has to do that considering what’s go on here over the years…

      you yourself went on this spiel about what’s offensive to other groups on what’s sexist.. homophobic and racist… and how to determine what is or isn’t offensive… and instead of engaging with you and guessing and polling my social circles at 10pm… i went out of my way to go ask a rather large group of them what they feel about it…

      which i think is a lot more effort than anyone else here put in before they flippantly accuse ppl of homophobia… i don’t just toss around those words just because i’m losing an argument… i hope if i use the word black or brown i won’t get called a racist either just because i don’t like the color of leon rose’s shoes….

    159. From the WashPost, on national TV appearances this year:

      New York Knicks: All it took was one halfway decent season and one respectable offseason to vault the Knicks back onto center stage. Julius Randle and company will make 22 national appearances this season after being penciled in for just one during the first half of the 2020-21 season. Although the Knicks still seem to be a cut below the East’s top contenders when it comes to both firepower and experience, Kemba Walker’s arrival and the lively Madison Square Garden crowd should make for compelling TV.

      Edit: to put that into perspective, Hawks get 14, Suns 23, and Zion gets 10.

    Comments are closed.