Knicks Morning News (2021.08.21)

  • Knicks’ home-heavy beginning to season provides chance for fast start – New York Post
    [nypost.com] — Saturday, August 21, 2021 4:31:05 AM

    Knicks’ home-heavy beginning to season provides chance for fast start  New York Post

  • Opinion: LiAngelo Ball? The New York Knicks, Los Angeles Lakers, Indiana Pacers And Charlotte Hornets Should All Give Him A Look – Sports Illustrated
    [www.si.com] — Saturday, August 21, 2021 12:15:10 AM

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  • Lakers news: Carmelo Anthony blasts Phil Jackson in Knicks revelation – ClutchPoints
    [clutchpoints.com] — Friday, August 20, 2021 10:05:07 PM

    Lakers news: Carmelo Anthony blasts Phil Jackson in Knicks revelation  ClutchPoints

  • NY Knicks ? Evan Fournier: ?I didn’t want to take Carmelo’s jersey? – Daily Knicks
    [dailyknicks.com] — Friday, August 20, 2021 6:00:00 PM

    NY Knicks ? Evan Fournier: ?I didn’t want to take Carmelo’s jersey?  Daily Knicks

  • New York Knicks To Sign Recently Waived Dwayne Bacon – SLAM Online
    [www.slamonline.com] — Friday, August 20, 2021 5:58:23 PM

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  • New York Knicks Announce 2021-22 Schedule – Knicks.com
    [www.nba.com] — Friday, August 20, 2021 5:53:32 PM

    New York Knicks Announce 2021-22 Schedule  Knicks.com

  • The Knicks Are Back! Knicks make big jump on nationally televised games – Empire Sports Media
    [empiresportsmedia.com] — Friday, August 20, 2021 4:30:28 PM

    The Knicks Are Back! Knicks make big jump on nationally televised games  Empire Sports Media

  • 2021-22 New York Knicks Schedule | Your Valley – Your Valley
    [www.yourvalley.net] — Friday, August 20, 2021 4:09:48 PM

    2021-22 New York Knicks Schedule | Your Valley  Your Valley

  • Orlando Magic’s home opener will be game against New York Knicks – WKMG News 6 & ClickOrlando
    [www.clickorlando.com] — Friday, August 20, 2021 3:33:31 PM

    Orlando Magic’s home opener will be game against New York Knicks  WKMG News 6 & ClickOrlando

  • NY Knicks: Ranking the 4 best signings by New York this offseason – Daily Knicks
    [dailyknicks.com] — Friday, August 20, 2021 2:00:00 PM

    NY Knicks: Ranking the 4 best signings by New York this offseason  Daily Knicks

  • NY Knicks: A Way Too Early Prediction of the SG Depth chart – Daily Knicks
    [dailyknicks.com] — Friday, August 20, 2021 10:00:00 AM

    NY Knicks: A Way Too Early Prediction of the SG Depth chart  Daily Knicks

  • Ep. 112 Shock Jacques Knicks Podcast – Posting and Toasting
    [www.postingandtoasting.com] — Friday, August 20, 2021 9:00:00 AM

    Ep. 112 Shock Jacques Knicks Podcast  Posting and Toasting

  • Why Madison Square Garden Sports Stock Is So Undervalued – Barron’s
    [www.barrons.com] — Friday, August 20, 2021 8:48:00 AM

    Why Madison Square Garden Sports Stock Is So Undervalued  Barron’s

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    42 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2021.08.21)”

    1. I did a first pass through the schedule, the “instinct” one, based on teams involved without any context and I ended up with 50 wins (yes, I’m an optimist at heart).

      I did a second one, weighting in back-to-backs and long tiresome road trips and lowered it to 44 wins.

      Later I’ll try to refine it even more, using opponents’ back-to-backs and road trips.

      :-)

    2. My prediction is 50 wins. People are underestimating us just like they did last year. Once DRose came to the team we were ripping through the league and that was with Mitch out and elf still starting. We upgraded starting PG and starting SG positions and have one of the deepest teams in the league which bodes well for the regular season. IQ and RJ and OBI will all improve. And we’ve got continuity and culture in place. We know the team will play hard every night and a lot of nights that’s enough to beat teams in the regular season. I get that other teams in the east improved but all of that is on paper for now.

    3. Please Max, stop with the “refining”, 2 more times of that and we’ll be with a losing record. :P
      44 wins is just fine, it’s my bet. ;) And i think Vegas will lose money with the Knicks this year, most of the people will bet on the over and that’s exactly what’s going to happen.

    4. Be happy Cyber,
      the third time through will get us more wins (because opposing teams will be tired from back-to-backs)…

      :-)

    5. Max: Be happy Cyber, the third time through will get us more wins (because opposing teams will be tired from back-to-backs)…

      Ok, ok, refining to get more wins is allowed. LOL

    6. Hey swift, went to re-read the “How Many Wins Will The Knicks Have In 2020-21?” Prediction Thread, and this is how i reacted to your optimism:

      A funny guy voted “Over 40”! LOL

    7. I think that’s exactly the line I guessed a couple of weeks ago right after the Kemba deal. Seems pretty fair to me. I’d probably take the over just based on the Thibs effect. I can’t imagine getting to 50 wins, but I couldn’t imagine getting to 41-31 last year, so I’m fine with what we have.

      Yeah, with the Thibs effect, at least 42 seems extremely likely.

    8. This is the first Knicks team in forever that has some continuity. We won’t have to reinvent the wheel and should come out of the gate playing fairly well.

      I would think our record would be roughly the same as last year. We have some regression candidates but we also made some upgrades. It might be hard to maintain the #3 defense but the offense should improve. I’ll say 45 wins or so.

    9. I’m in the 45-50 win range for this years Knicks. Payton was unplayable the second half of the season and we were without Mitch for a good chunk of it. And load management will still play a role in win/loss records. I think there will be 5-10 games (maybe more that the season is back to 82) where the team’s best player or players will take the night off and we will reap the benefit.

      Also unless you’re coming back from injury or old, I still don’t understand load management for today’s players. You can take days off during the regular season and STILL get injured in the playoffs (Kawhi and Kyrie come to mind). I know you wanna keep guys fresh but man what happened to the 82 game superstar? Probably dead and buried it seems

    10. This is the first Knicks team in forever that has some continuity. We won’t have to reinvent the wheel and should come out of the gate playing fairly well.

      Continuity plus a full training camp that will allow Thibs to install a real offense (plus having real point guards to run said offense) could help a lot with any potential regression to the mean from RJ and JR, or from the defense overall. I’m feeling cautiously optimistic about the team’s ability to at least tread water, record-wise.

    11. I think we can be a very good regular season team with our depth and continuity from last year. Obviously a lot is hedging on Kemba and Rose so hopefully we can get something decent from the IQ, Miles and Vildoza camp

    12. I think management did a great job upgrading the roster and providing depth. Yes, I think there are injury risks but without huge drop offs to the next man up. So, I think 50 wins and a second round exit is par, even with guys missing some time.

      Of course, the story of a great team is when everyone has a career year at the same time. So, if an upward trajectory continues for RJ, JR, Mitch, etc, the sky’s the limit.

      The star fuckers and dick riders are FRAGILE and shallow. I’m gonna dare to dream the impossible dream. NBA finals NYK over LAL in seven games!

    13. I’d say also that this is a perfectly root-able team. The opposite of KD to GSW or LBJ taking his talents to MIA. We have an underdog mentality and all our players reputations will be made or broken with an NYK Jersey on.

      The purist in me likes that a lot, whether we kill or get killed

    14. danvt:
      I’d say also that this is a perfectly root-able team. The opposite of KD to GSW or LBJ taking his talents to MIA. We have an underdog mentality and all our players reputations will be made or broken with an NYK Jersey on.

      The purist in me likes that a lot, whether we kill or get killed

      I’m very much the same way. I hate the superfriends team building mentality. Yet, I guess I’d root for it if the Knicks could pull it off.
      :-)

    15. ugh, it’s been a couple of months now, but, we lost a lot of close games last year, if I remember right, more than any other team…plus, we finished the regular season as one of the hottest teams…

      I’m in the 45 to 50 win group also, probably settle on 47 wins…ha, I predicted 27 wins last year and the team surpassed that mark by a bunch…

    16. Our expected win percentage by Pythag last year was 0.589 (42 wins). Over 82 games that would be 48.3 wins. I’m expecting regression from Taj and less minutes from Randle but other than that I optimistically expect that everyone can replicate or improve their rate production from last year, especially with more shooting options and no Elf. I don’t see the defense falling off too drastically because I feel like there will be buy in from the old guys as well as the new guys, and I just don’t believe that Thibs will allow them to slack. I think 45+ and potentially 50 if the young guys continue to progress is a reasonable expectation for this season.

    17. A lot depends on Kemba’s ability to turn the clock back on his play and obviously the health of his knee. This team is very deep and pretty talented even without the “superstar”. The East is likely going to be better this year, and of course it’s “big” , but even for a pessimist/realist like me I expect this team to succeed because Thibs and some continuity for a change.

      I’ll go with 45 wins and the 6th seed. Knicks will be better but so will the competition in the East so repeating the 4 seed doesn’t look realistic unless 2 or 3 of the top teams have injuries to their best players.

      Knicks over Lakers in the finals? That would be my lifetime dream outcome, but that is not happening this year. Whatever you guys are ingesting to come up with that idea please let me know, must be some powerfully mind altering substance(s)

    18. I count 50 wins just making a first pass through the schedule. I think we fall short of that number, but I don’t think it’s a crazy number.

      If Kemba and Rose stay relatively healthy or another PG steps up, I could see us exceeding 50.

      Perhaps I’m underestimating Bullock’s defense though

    19. Mitch 2020 vs Mitch 2021: Likely improvement or at least better health
      Julius 2020 vs. Julius 2021: Same, even if 3pt% regresses a bit, can make it up in other ways
      RJ 2020 vs RJ 2021: Likely improvement due to being a year older, same comment as Julius
      Payton 2020 vs Kemba 2021: Likely significant improvement all around, slight dropoff on D, significant improvement on O
      Rose 2020 vs Rose 2021: Same
      Bullock 2020 vs Fournier 2021: Likely improvement all around, slight dropoff on D, significant improvement on O
      Noel 2020 vs Noel 2021: Same
      IQ 2020 vs IQ 2021: Slight improvement, prob gets more minutes
      Obi 2020 vs Obi 2021: Slight improvement, prob gets more minutes
      Burks 2020 vs. Burks 2021: Same
      Taj 2020 vs Taj 2021: Same
      Frank 2020 vs McBride 2021: Likely improvement
      Rivers/Pinson 2020 vs. Grimes 2021: Who knows?
      Knox 2020 vs Knox 2021: Who cares?

      Seems like when you look at it this way, 50 wins is not an outrageous prediction, especially given Thibs win at all costs approach.

    20. I wonder how much losing Bullock and Elf will hurt the defense. Given the isolated loss of 2 key perimeter D talents amid broad continuity otherwise, this year might suggest whether last year’s mysterious ISM effects were more due to coaching or players’ skill and effort.

      I assume Fournier and Kemba are both average defenders and that their individual D skills are not on upward trajectories. They seem willing and able to use any potential benefits that coaching might provide to maintain those skills and make the most of them.

      Other things could help offset the loss of Bullock and Elf on D. RJ and/or IQ seem like they might have the potential to become consistent plus defenders this year or next. I thought both were at times last year, though not consistently. In the limited minutes they’ll likely get, McBride, Grimes, and Sims all seem well suited to a D-first team. Though he gets less buzz than Deuce, Sims’ potential on D is intriguing. Beyond the comic book hops and good lateral quickness, he looks aware and like he’ll be tough to push around in the paint.

      I’m not very confident that the coaching staff deserves most of the ISM credit, but my best guess is that they do. All things considered, barring injuries etc., I won’t be surprised if we are almost as good on D this year as we were last year.

      How do you guys think we’ll stack up relative to last year on things like total points allowed and opponents’ 3pt %?

    21. We are most likely due for regression on defense, in terms of points allowed and 3pt %, but I honestly think not by much. You have to figure Kemba and Fournier need to learn the defensive schemes, and maybe the rooks if they get playing time. But the rest of team is the same as last year so they know the deal. Bullock was a great defender for us, so he’ll be missed. But Elf I think is slightly overrated on D and really became a liability towards the end of last season.

    22. I wonder how much losing Bullock and Elf will hurt the defense.

      when thibs came on board and had players gamble less on perimeter defense elf’s steals numbers went down, as did his whole dbpm last year – especially once his offensive game went completely away after the all-star break…

      i think getting more minutes from mitch will help mitigate losing reggie on defense…

    23. ***a full training camp that will allow Thibs to install a real offense (plus having real point guards to run said offense) could help a lot with any potential regression***

      Has the “full training camp” theory been put to a practical test? I mean, up until this year, almost every team ever has had a full training camp. And the results have been mixed.

    24. ***Mitch 2020 vs Mitch 2021: Likely improvement or at least better health
      Julius 2020 vs. Julius 2021: Same, even if 3pt% regresses a bit, can make it up in other ways
      RJ 2020 vs RJ 2021: Likely improvement due to being a year older, same comment as Julius
      Payton 2020 vs Kemba 2021: Likely significant improvement all around, slight dropoff on D, significant improvement on O
      Rose 2020 vs Rose 2021: Same
      Bullock 2020 vs Fournier 2021: Likely improvement all around, slight dropoff on D, significant improvement on O
      Noel 2020 vs Noel 2021: Same
      IQ 2020 vs IQ 2021: Slight improvement, prob gets more minutes
      Obi 2020 vs Obi 2021: Slight improvement, prob gets more minutes
      Burks 2020 vs. Burks 2021: Same
      Taj 2020 vs Taj 2021: Same
      Frank 2020 vs McBride 2021: Likely improvement
      Rivers/Pinson 2020 vs. Grimes 2021: Who knows?
      Knox 2020 vs Knox 2021: Who cares?

      Seems like when you look at it this way, 50 wins is not an outrageous prediction, especially given Thibs win at all costs approach.***

      There’s also a flip-side to all these coins, of course.

      It reminds me of the end of Goldman’s novel of The Princess Bride that he “abridged” out: “Inigo’s wound reopened; and Westley relapsed again; and Fezzik took the wrong turn; and Buttercup’s horse threw a shoe. And the night behind them was filled with the crescendoing sound of pursuit. . . .”

    25. Mitch 2020 vs Mitch 2021: Likely improvement or at least better health

      Better health, maybe; but I’m not optimistic about “likely improvement”. Generally players get slower but more skilled as they age, but Mitch is a guy who chose an “advisor” who had him work on three point shooting when he couldn’t hit foul shots or make a six foot jumper. And compared to his first season, his touch around the rim last season didn’t seem quite as good. Now with a short off season, I’m not expecting any improvement from him.

    26. This is the first Knicks team in forever that has some continuity. We won’t have to reinvent the wheel and should come out of the gate playing fairly well.

      This hasn’t been said enough. It’s almost shocking how the media hasn’t latched on to Leon being able to bring much of the gang back. Chemistry is such an important component of winning. Bring back players also sends a message to the rest of the players in the league: That you want to return to play on the Knicks.

      I’m feeling good about my 48 win prediction… which means nothing :)

    27. Let’s check our games, it’s easier to get to 50 wins that way.
      Last year, it looked like a perfect year, and we were 16-14 against the west. Will we do better than that? Yeah, i don’t think it’s wise to project that way, so let’s account for 16 wins.
      Now how will we do against the teams we play 4 times (ATL, BOS, BRK, CHI, CHA, IND, MIL, ORL, PHI, TOR)? Split the tough ones (ATL, BOS, BRK, MIL, PHI)? All of them? This looks a little too optimistic, don’t you think? But let’s carry on. Can we go 3-1 against the average ones (CHI, CHA, IND, TOR)? All of them again? And then we sweep ORL, of course! :P This is 26 more wins. We’re at 42, and until now it looks like the coach is God and not Thibs. :P
      Then we have the 3 game series, some are easy so let’s plan a sweep… CLE and DET. We’re at 48 wins.
      Only MIA and WAS left, 3 games each, let’s keep the “heavenly” season, we’ll go 2-1 against these 2, for 52 wins total.
      So there’s a margin for 2 unexpected losses. Is that logical, in 82 games?
      I’m not saying we can’t get there, but looking at the schedule it looks really hard and probably we’ll only get there if everything breaks right, like last year.

    28. Jack Bauer: Knicks over Lakers in the finals? That would be my lifetime dream outcome, but that is not happening this year. Whatever you guys are ingesting to come up with that idea please let me know, must be some powerfully mind altering substance(s)

      Ha, yes, there are legal substances at a store near me :-) But why not dream big for a change? I have no problem confidently predicting upside for teams I have no rooting interest in. NYK were fourth in the conference last year. They did upgrade at many positions. I think people are scared to love.

      vincoug: Derrick Rose raped a woman.

      Come on man. No fair. Maybe not to Derrick Rose (though he was not convicted. Not that that means anything about what actually happened) but to me and to NYK fans. We want and deserve to love.

    29. For schedule prediction purposes I have us lose outright to teams clearly better than us & win outright against teams worse than us. We split games against teams around our level.

      I think we split with ATL & BOS during the regular season.

      I think we sweep WAS, possibly CHA. IND & TOR are under us. I think I had us split with CHI.

      It obviously never happens that cleanly but you win games you should lose and lose games you should win, it mostly balances out. Predictions based on the schedule are supposed to be very rough.

    30. Donnie Walsh: There’s also a flip-side to all these coins, of course.

      It reminds me of the end of Goldman’s novel of The Princess Bride that he “abridged” out: “Inigo’s wound reopened; and Westley relapsed again; and Fezzik took the wrong turn; and Buttercup’s horse threw a shoe. And the night behind them was filled with the crescendoing sound of pursuit. . . .”

      Yes, I’d say 50 wins are no more probable than, say, 34 wins. I suppose a question worth asking is, which of the above statements are overly optimistic?

    31. Here’s a more jaded set of projections:

      Mitch 2020 vs Mitch 2021: Same
      Julius 2020 vs. Julius 2021: Slight regression
      RJ 2020 vs RJ 2021: Same
      Payton 2020 vs Kemba 2021: Same
      Rose 2020 vs Rose 2021: Same
      Bullock 2020 vs Fournier 2021: Slight improvement
      Noel 2020 vs Noel 2021: Same
      IQ 2020 vs IQ 2021: Same
      Obi 2020 vs Obi 2021: Same
      Burks 2020 vs. Burks 2021: Same
      Taj 2020 vs Taj 2021: Same
      Frank 2020 vs McBride 2021: Same
      Rivers/Pinson 2020 vs. Grimes 2021: Who knows?
      Knox 2020 vs Knox 2021: Who cares?

      Since the rest of the league is likely better, roughly a slightly above .500 team.

    32. I still can’t believe that they got Kemba to agree to the guaranteed second year. They had, like, no leverage and he still agreed to be locked into a two-year deal. That was so amazing.

    33. ***Here’s a more jaded set of projections***

      Ah, that feels so much better to read. Phew.

    34. Brian Cronin:
      I still can’t believe that they got Kemba to agree to the guaranteed second year. They had, like, no leverage and he still agreed to be locked into a two-year deal. That was so amazing.

      It makes somewhat more sense in that he’s getting paid like $40 million in year 2…I mean, yeah, he could have held firm for a player option but maybe he simply didn’t want to be perceived as a 1-year guy…or maybe that’s all the Knicks would offer and he really truly wanted to come here. Definitely a win for the FO.

    35. It makes somewhat more sense in that he’s getting paid like $40 million in year 2…I mean, yeah, he could have held firm for a player option but maybe he simply didn’t want to be perceived as a 1-year guy…or maybe that’s all the Knicks would offer and he really truly wanted to come here. Definitely a win for the FO.

      Oh, of course, the fact that he’s already making $35 million or whatever next year on top of his Knick money is a lot, but he had that money guaranteed already, so him not betting on himself and going out of his way to help the Knicks out is shocking (in a very good way).

      That said, there’s also the sort of scary (hopefully not likely) possibility that he wanted the guaranteed $9 million for the second season because he thought he wouldn’t even get that once people see his knee.

    36. before we start fellating the FO and giving them undeserved credit… there’s the OKC side of things where they are off the hook for whatever the Knicks are paying.. this probably doesn’t get done with just one year for 8-9mm….

      kemba was going to get his money regardless and he pitched in to make it happen but he wasn’t doing anyone favors with that second year… what he actually contributed was giving 4mm back which was the cost of not rotting in OKC to start the season…

    37. Early Bird: For schedule prediction purposes I have us lose outright to teams clearly better than us & win outright against teams worse than us. We split games against teams around our level.

      I think your method has flaws because it tends to be optimistic when the team is good, and pessimistic when the team is bad. With your method we’d probably have the Nets losing only around 10 games, and OKC (yes, they’re the worst team, more on this on my next comment) winning around 10 games. But i hope you guys that are predicting 50 wins are right, of course. ;D

    38. Is it me or OKC is clearly the worst team in the league? Will Shai wait for that clown show to make some sense, or will this be the season where he asks for a trade? Can we get him?

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