Knicks Morning News (2021.08.20)

  • Knicks Future on Display With Stellar Summer League Performance – The Knicks Wall
    [theknickswall.com] — Friday, August 20, 2021 7:04:00 AM

    Knicks Future on Display With Stellar Summer League Performance  The Knicks Wall

  • One big mistake by the Knicks in 2021 NBA Free Agency – ClutchPoints
    [clutchpoints.com] — Friday, August 20, 2021 2:17:53 AM

    One big mistake by the Knicks in 2021 NBA Free Agency  ClutchPoints

  • Former Lakers, Rockets, Knicks, Pacers, Kings And Bulls Star Talks About When He Started Respecting Scottie Pippen Offensively – Sports Illustrated
    [www.si.com] — Friday, August 20, 2021 12:01:10 AM

    Former Lakers, Rockets, Knicks, Pacers, Kings And Bulls Star Talks About When He Started Respecting Scottie Pippen Offensively  Sports Illustrated

  • Snubbed! Nets, Knicks, Celtics, Suns, Pelicans, Hawks And Kings Get A Player On The All-Summer League First Team, But The NBA Left Off This Indiana Pacers Star – Sports Illustrated
    [www.si.com] — Thursday, August 19, 2021 11:25:55 PM

    Snubbed! Nets, Knicks, Celtics, Suns, Pelicans, Hawks And Kings Get A Player On The All-Summer League First Team, But The NBA Left Off This Indiana Pacers Star  Sports Illustrated

  • Snubbed! Nets, Knicks, Celtics, Suns, Pelicans, Hawks And Kings Get A Player On The All-Summer League First Team, But The NBA Left Off This Indiana Pacers Star – Sports Illustrated
    [www.si.com] — Thursday, August 19, 2021 7:37:33 PM

    Snubbed! Nets, Knicks, Celtics, Suns, Pelicans, Hawks And Kings Get A Player On The All-Summer League First Team, But The NBA Left Off This Indiana Pacers Star  Sports Illustrated

  • Knicks’ free agency deals leave some flexibility for the future – Yahoo Sports
    [sports.yahoo.com] — Thursday, August 19, 2021 7:00:19 PM

    Knicks’ free agency deals leave some flexibility for the future  Yahoo Sports

  • NBA offseason grades, player movement: Knicks, Lakers, Warriors revamp rosters; Blazers, Pelicans underwhelm – CBS Sports
    [www.cbssports.com] — Thursday, August 19, 2021 6:38:00 PM

    NBA offseason grades, player movement: Knicks, Lakers, Warriors revamp rosters; Blazers, Pelicans underwhelm  CBS Sports

  • Brooklyn Nets on the Brink of Finally Overtaking the Knicks With a Pair of $160 Million-Plus Deals – Sportscasting
    [www.sportscasting.com] — Thursday, August 19, 2021 6:29:04 PM

    Brooklyn Nets on the Brink of Finally Overtaking the Knicks With a Pair of $160 Million-Plus Deals  Sportscasting

  • NY Knicks: Can Toppin and Randle Share the Court? – Daily Knicks
    [dailyknicks.com] — Thursday, August 19, 2021 6:00:00 PM

    NY Knicks: Can Toppin and Randle Share the Court?  Daily Knicks

  • Why MSG Sports, Owner of New York Knicks, Rangers, Is So Undervalued – Barron’s
    [www.barrons.com] — Thursday, August 19, 2021 5:48:00 PM

    Why MSG Sports, Owner of New York Knicks, Rangers, Is So Undervalued  Barron’s

  • Knicks sign Aamir Simms for training camp after summer league run – New York Post
    [nypost.com] — Thursday, August 19, 2021 4:10:00 PM

    Knicks sign Aamir Simms for training camp after summer league run  New York Post

  • Bulls Rumors: Knicks blew Chicago?s offer to D-Rose ?away? – Pippen Ain’t Easy
    [pippenainteasy.com] — Thursday, August 19, 2021 2:31:00 PM

    Bulls Rumors: Knicks blew Chicago?s offer to D-Rose ?away?  Pippen Ain’t Easy

  • Julius Randle downplays Knicks-Hawks Christmas showdown: It?s just another game – Empire Sports Media
    [empiresportsmedia.com] — Thursday, August 19, 2021 12:11:38 PM

    Julius Randle downplays Knicks-Hawks Christmas showdown: It?s just another game  Empire Sports Media

  • New York Knicks: 3 Positives and 2 Negatives from Summer League – Daily Knicks
    [dailyknicks.com] — Thursday, August 19, 2021 10:00:00 AM

    New York Knicks: 3 Positives and 2 Negatives from Summer League  Daily Knicks

  • Knicks Sign Aamir Simms To Training Camp Deal – hoopsrumors.com
    [www.hoopsrumors.com] — Thursday, August 19, 2021 9:32:00 AM

    Knicks Sign Aamir Simms To Training Camp Deal  hoopsrumors.com

  • Knicks’ Biggest Winners and Losers from 2021 NBA Free Agency – Bleacher Report
    [bleacherreport.com] — Thursday, August 19, 2021 9:00:01 AM

    Knicks’ Biggest Winners and Losers from 2021 NBA Free Agency  Bleacher Report

  • Knicks? Mitchell Robinson sets lofty defensive goals for 2021-22 season – Empire Sports Media
    [empiresportsmedia.com] — Thursday, August 19, 2021 7:46:56 AM

    Knicks? Mitchell Robinson sets lofty defensive goals for 2021-22 season  Empire Sports Media

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    52 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2021.08.20)”

    1. Turns out Theo Pinson is still on the market. Aamir Simms or MJ Walker better shoot the lights out in camp if they want that other two-way spot…

    2. The more I look at it, the more I’m convincing that they’re going to swap Vildoza’s spot with Dwayne Bacon.

      It’ll save them around 1.5M and he looks more like a bench wing than Luca (Bacon is 6-6 221, Vildoza 6-3 190).

      But maybe I’m wrong and they’re only doing a favor to CAA, showcasing one of their clients during preseason.

    3. From the last thread,

      Z-Man: I’ve been called lots of things, but humorless is beyond the pale…curse you cyber!

      Hahaha, you’re getting there. ;) Let’s keep it going. :)

    4. Trade Nineteen
      -Squealy Fan

      Way back when the Knicks were drafting
      Sometime in summer of ‘21
      Two sweet first rounders
      And juicy seconds
      Who ever thought that Rose
      Would ever go

      And Trade nineteen?
      No we can’t draft a Johnson
      No we can’t pick at all
      Sure thing one of them’s
      Going to the Hall…

      Trade nineteen
      That’s freakin’ rankling
      That Leon Rose is such a hack
      Hard times befallen
      us Knickerbloggers
      One more front office
      has stabbed us in the back…

      Trade nineteen
      The first is too protected
      If it’s a first at all
      And burned twenty one
      Just to slide on down

      Christ!

      Sure looked bad
      Hmm hmm hmm
      But Summer League is over now

      That Quinten Grimes
      Juko and Deuce McBride
      Made our draft a wonderful thing
      (and Jericho Sims)

      That Quinten Grimes
      Juko and Deuce McBride
      Made our draft a wonderful thing

      But it’s incinerated
      We whiffed on Lonzo Ball
      The first is too protected
      If it’s a first at all….

    5. It’s pretty clear that the 10-man rotation is pretty much etched in stone barring a trade:

      Likely starters: Mitch, Julius, RJ, Fournier, Kemba
      Likely Bench: Noel, Obi, Burks, IQ, Rose

      Will Thibs try to rest guys? Maybe a bit, which is where we’ll see Taj, Deuce, and Grimes. I just don’t see minutes for Vildoza or Knox if they’re still around. They seem like trade filler at this point. Maybe Taj as well, but hard to see Thibs letting him go.

      Sims will probably play less than 200 minutes if at all. I like him as a Norvelle Pelle replacement, but he’s strictly an emergency guy right now. Would love to seem him play though!

      My guess is that Leon & co. will stand pat see how the team fares until the 2-year guys are tradeable in December. It looks like they did a lot of maneuvering to keep Vildoza, so I can see them waiting until at least after training camp/preseason to decide what to do with him.

    6. Alan:
      Turns out Theo Pinson is still on the market. Aamir Simms or MJ Walker better shoot the lights out in camp if they want that other two-way spot…

      My casual fan daughters absolutely love Theo so it would all be good!

    7. Taj isn’t gong anywhere.

      Mitch is iffy to stay healthy and Nerlens gets rest days for his knees from time to time. Taj is likely to keep busy.

      And that assumes we don’t trade Mitch plus our surplus 1st rounders at some point in the season if we can get Mitch’s value back up and we have a chance to upgrade a roster spot with an all star caliber player. Maybe they’ll revisit Myles Turner (though I don’t see the Pacers wanting Mitch if they think Turner isn’t an ideal fit). Maybe they’ll use Mitch in another trade and then try to trade for Turner to replace Mitch with another trade. Either way, those picks are currency and they are going to try to use them to upgrade.

    8. Vildoza stays, we need PG depth more than wing depth. There’s a good chance both Kemba & Rose are out at the same time this year. Deuce, IQ, & Vildoza get a shot at filling the spot.

      I get that we can waive Vildoza, but that doesn’t mean we’ll do it before seeing what he has.

      Also, Dwayne Bacon sucks. He’s training camp fodder.

    9. Vildoza stays, we need PG depth more than wing depth.

      I’m not a Vildoza fan, but I’m not sold on IQ being anything more than a 6th man energy scorer off the bench at this stage and McBride looks more like an undersized 3&D SG with “some” handle and play making ability. I’d have to see more of McBride. If they are confident he can handle 2rd string PG when one of either Kemba or Rose is out (which should happen often enough to be prepared) or lead PG for awhile if both are out, that’s fine. I just haven’t seen enough to convince me yet.

    10. Deeefense: I just haven’t seen enough to convince me yet.

      Well yeah, that’s one way to look at it. Another way to look at it is that point guard is the hardest position to play given the complexities involved in running the team and plays and players, so maybe we should recognize that very young guards will take a bit of seasoning (as do young players at every position…).

      Here’s a third way of looking at it, which is from the first article in the list above:

      Quickley showed that his playmaking ability is legitimate, as he averaged 7.8 assists per game, ranking second in the Summer League behind Boston’s Payton Pritchard.

      (McBride) averaged 15.2 points in just 27.7 minutes per game. He also shot an astounding 53.2% from the field, 50% from three (on 6.0 attempts per game), and 87.5% from the free throw line.

      McBride wasn’t only a good shooter but was equally as good at creating his own shot. Point guards that can create their own shot were a huge need for the Knicks this offseason, and they certainly got one in McBride.

      What was even more impressive than McBride’s offense was his defense. McBride locked down every guard he faced in the Summer League, most notably Sharife Cooper of the Hawks in the final game. His defense is so good that it’s likely amongst the best on the team already. He’s the type of player who will guard the opposing team’s best player in the future.

    11. Deeefense: I’m not a Vildoza fan, but I’m not sold on IQ being anything more than a 6th man energy scorer off the bench at this stage and McBride looks more like an undersized 3&D SG with “some” handle and play making ability.I’d have to see more of McBride. If they are confident he can handle 2rd string PG when one of either Kemba or Rose is out (which should happen often enough to be prepared) or lead PG for awhile if both are out, that’s fine.I just haven’t seen enough to convince me yet.

      This is all fair, but I think it’s too early to say with any conviction how Thibs will plug PG gaps when they arise. Burks and Fournier both have lead guard experience, maybe he uses them vs. the bigger PGs for short spurts. McBride showed excellent decision-making in SL, IQ piled up assists in SL and now has a year of NBA play under his belt and some time to work on his PG game, Vildoza could be one of those guys who blossoms in a higher-level situation or responds to the positional competition. When you think about it, Thibs has lots of new pieces to configure, even returning guys like RJ, Obi, IQ and Mitch may not be the same players as last year.

    12. I liked the remark that McBride may already be better than the Frankophiles’ best hopes for Ntilikina. Summer League is Summer League, but nothing he did looked like fake news. One thing I feel is true about Thibs is that if a rookie earns minutes in practice, he will get opportunities in games.If he shows out in practice and preseason, I could see him getting something like 5-6 minute 2nd Q stints every other game to start.

    13. You all need to stop making me feel woefully inadequate about my creative abilities with all these poems and zingers (don’t actually stop, excellent work Z-Man).

      I continue to doubt Vildoza gets waived simply because you get the impression he went through a good deal of trouble to get here. This front office is reputation conscious and for that reason alone he probably gets at least a season with us.

      I also don’t think there’s much of a reason to adjust whatever your priors on Vildoza were from the day we signed him. He had an uneven olympics but it’s not like he played a ton and so did some members of Team USA, and then obviously there’s next to nothing to go off of in summer league. Personally, I still find his Euroleague numbers intriguing, and comparable to other successful NBA players’, enough to keep him.

    14. Knickerblogger: An evolutionary history

      NTILIKINA
      NILIKINA
      NILIKINN
      NILIKENN
      NILEKENN
      NILEKEEN
      NILETEEN
      NINETEEN

      Edit: For the benefit of those who may have trouble moving on, perhaps the traded pick should henceforth be referred to as “Ntineteen.”

    15. The fact that McBride is already a reliable 3PT shooter, a very good point of attack defender, and a decent distributor, and it’s still a perfectly open question whether or not he’s a long-term rotation player really exposes the whole Ntilikina narrative for the nonsense it was.

    16. Quickley showed that his playmaking ability is legitimate, as he averaged 7.8 assists per game, ranking second in the Summer League behind Boston’s Payton Pritchard.

      the whole caveat with summer league is that nothing is really legitimate because it’s summer league… esp for guys already in the league and esp the older guys… IQ is the age of college seniors…

      it’s ok to be encouraged by it… but if the basis to the argument is that he showed that he’s a pg in summer league then i think you could make that argument for plenty of ‘pgs’ who never made it in the nba also….

    17. Count de Pennies:
      Knickerblogger: An evolutionary history

      NTILIKINA
      NILIKINA
      NILIKINN
      NILIKENN
      NILEKENN
      NILEKEEN
      NILETEEN
      NINETEEN

      Edit: For the benefit of those who may have trouble moving on, perhaps the traded pick should henceforth be referred to as “Ntineteen.”

      This is fall down funny!!

    18. it’s ok to be encouraged by it… but if the basis to the argument is that he showed that he’s a pg in summer league then i think you could make that argument for plenty of ‘pgs’ who never made it in the nba also….

      On the other hand, the loose, playground nature of summer league tends to make assist numbers harder to rack up. The fact that IQ could drop so many dimes — some of them really high-level passes — is at a minimum encouraging.

    19. thenoblefacehumper: You all need to stop making me feel woefully inadequate about my creative abilities with all these poems and zingers (don’t actually stop, excellent work Z-Man).

      Thanks for that, you can take comfort in being a source of inspiration :-D

      thenoblefacehumper: I continue to doubt Vildoza gets waived simply because you get the impression he went through a good deal of trouble to get here. This front office is reputation conscious and for that reason alone he probably gets at least a season with us.

      Agreed, with the caveat that he might ask out if he reads the tea leaves and doesn’t see the opportunity he was expecting when he signed…

      thenoblefacehumper: I also don’t think there’s much of a reason to adjust whatever your priors on Vildoza were from the day we signed him. He had an uneven olympics but it’s not like he played a ton and so did some members of Team USA, and then obviously there’s next to nothing to go off of in summer league. Personally, I still find his Euroleague numbers intriguing, and comparable to other successful NBA players’, enough to keep him.

      Agree 100% with this. And my guess is that Rose and Thibs feel the same way. He should get every opportunity to earn a spot in preseason.

    20. I, for one, think that the level of play in this year’s summer league was generally superior to what I’ve seen in the past. I have no idea whether that makes any difference in projecting NBA outcomes, but it will be fun to look back and check.

      It was nice to see Davion Mitchell perform so well and get co-MVP w/o big scoring numbers. He still can’t hit a FT but the rest of his game was awesome. I didn’t see the final game but apparently he did an impressive job of shutting Prichard down.

    21. On the other hand, the loose, playground nature of summer league tends to make assist numbers harder to rack up.

      it’s really if you’re ball dominant and looking to pass you can rack up all the assists that you want… here’s the all-time summer league leaders in assists per game:

      1. lonzo ball
      2. payton pritchard
      3. marcus williams x2
      4. brandon jennings
      5. immanuel quickley
      6. john wall
      7. kendall marshall
      8. john lucas
      9. tim frazier
      10. wade baldwin
      11. jonny flynn
      12. chris. chiozza
      13. sharife cooper
      14. emmanuel mudiay
      15. trent forrest

      it really does mean next to nothing .. esp if you’re older since the only meaningful players on this list did their thing as 19yo…

      those high level passes you see … it’s nice to see … but it’s an entirely diff thing to do it an environment when you’re not older than most of the competition…. and the fact it’s only a handful of games… it’s summer league and everyone knows it doesn’t mean much except the fact that they then get carried away by it anyway….

    22. Just to be clear, I wasn’t suggesting that the Vildoza/Bacon swap will be done before training camp or preseason games.
      We’ve seen too little of Luca to judge now, it’s fair to give him more chances to show something (as a fervent Euroleague watcher I know he can do something, but he needs to adjust to the next-level speed).

      And it’s true that Luca went through many annoyances (and a buyout!) to get here, so our FO can treat him with velvet gloves.
      It’s even true that he knows he can’t get the same money in Europe, so maybe he can accept a year play sparingly at the end of our bench.

    23. It would make sense the summer league this year might have been a little more competitive. Last year we didn’t have a summer league, so probably more second year or even third year players were playing in it this year than in a typical year.

    24. We only really have the eye test to go on when evaluation McBride but he passed that test and showed traits that Frank never had. Aside from what TNFH said,

      thenoblefacehumperis already a reliable 3PT shooter, a very good point of attack defender, and a decent distributor

      He showed fearless offensive aggression, poise, determination and swagger. On the defensive end he’s relentless, passionate, has quick hands and is instinctive.

      McBride will make us forget Ntilikina fast.

      BTW, Ntilikina’s next stop is a bench somewhere in Europe. Judging by how he was handled by France in the olympics, that’s his current ceiling.

    25. This year all 30 first rounders did play,
      last years no games,
      two years ago half of the first rounders skip the SL.

      Plus what Swift said about 2nd and 3rd year players.

      This year’s level of play was very good (compared with other editions), with a lot of promising players.

      Edit: and the sad Mudiay, Beasley, Faried show…

    26. Boston extended TimeLord Williams, 4yr/54M.

      I think Mitch can be close to this then to Allen’s new contract.

    27. Max:
      Boston extended TimeLord Williams, 4yr/54M.

      I think Mitch can be close to this then to Allen’s new contract.

      Man, they’re spending like drunken sailors

    28. Bobby Marks has been keeping track of how many free agents are even left for next year after all these extensions:

      @BobbyMarks42
      Out of the 191 projected free agents, 33 are deemed starter level or above.

      13 are restricted free agents and 4 players (Irving, Harden, Westbrook and Wall) will likely not see free agency.

      @BobbyMarks42
      32 now with Robert Williams off the board.

      Williams becomes the 11th player to sign an extension this offseason.

    29. ugh, i just procrastinate so much…i need to be going through different cannabis stock opportunities and start sinking some money in to the industry…

      i have though stopped using clear eyes as much as i used to, i’m kinda at the point now where: fuck it, my eyes are red, so what…

    30. @JCMacriNBA
      I don’t care what seed they were last year; there will never be a “gimme” game played by my beloved Knicks.

      That said, the NBA sure is giving NY a chance to start hot. 11 of first 19 at home, 12 of first 17 against non-playoff teams, and they face ORL, HOU & CLE 5x in first 16.

    31. We’re bringing MJ Walker to camp, too. He shot pretty well from distance in some of the summer league games I watched. Probably just a camp body, but could wind up in Westchester with Sims (and maybe Simms).

    32. During on of my several long drives this week, I listened to a Macri podcast with a writer from Celtics Blog. The main discussion was about Fournier and Kemba. I was not listening intently but my recollection was essentially:
      -he was not happy to see Fournier go. Fine all-around player, great guy to root for, plays team ball, plays smart, usually makes the correct play, never makes an obviously stupid play, not hunted on D, more suited for a 4th option which he was when Kemba played. Wishes that the Celts paid him and kept him in the fold.
      -he was down on Kemba and felt his knee is pretty much shot. Celts started managing his knee by limiting his step-backs, etc., which reduced his effectiveness. Said he actually played worse after resting on SGOABTB, seemed to get out of rhythm, that there was a disconnect between what the Celtics said about his knee and what Kemba said.

    33. Alan: We’re bringing MJ Walker to camp, too. He shot pretty well from distance in some of the summer league games I watched. Probably just a camp body, but could wind up in Westchester with Sims (and maybe Simms).

      Or maybe it’s the “exhibit-10 saga” that we have each summer… sign a guy today, waive him tomorrow, sign another guy tomorrow, waive him the next day… and so on, and so on… for 6 days, i think.

    34. Knicks’ Caesars Palace over-under set at 41.5 wins.

      Tied for 8th in the EC with the Bulls.

      They’re a borderline .500, borderline playoff team. If you have real confidence they’re more than that, go make some money on that confidence.

      I’d have hoped for more. Not really sure where this is headed and my base case answer would be purgatory.

    35. The draft board cold
      The in-cin-i-ray-shon
      Make tonight a horrible thing
      (Say it again)
      The draft board cold
      The-in-cin-i-ray-shon
      Make tonight a horrible thing
      ….

    36. E, all merc’d out:
      Knicks’ Caesars Palace over-under set at 41.5 wins.

      Tied for 8th in the EC with the Bulls.

      They’re a borderline .500, borderline playoff team.If you have real confidence they’re more than that, go make some money on that confidence.

      I’d have hoped for more.Not really sure where this is headed and my base case answer would be purgatory.

      I think that’s exactly the line I guessed a couple of weeks ago right after the Kemba deal. Seems pretty fair to me. I’d probably take the over just based on the Thibs effect. I can’t imagine getting to 50 wins, but I couldn’t imagine getting to 41-31 last year, so I’m fine with what we have.

      I know some folks would like to have seen more juice, it was a pretty vanilla offseason. Still, there’s lots to look forward to without the burden of feeling that we’re looking at a finished product. There’s plenty of maneuverability. Bobby Marks is predicting that there wil be lots of trades happening with the 2022 FA cupboard so bare, who knows what we’ll be looking at by season’s end or this time next year? Might as well enjoy the ride!

    37. It’s true it was kind of a vanilla off season. But still, team prospects tend to be judged by the level of talent they have when betting lines are set. Little thought I’d given to the fit of that talent together. Atlanta has a well put together team, but Philly does not, at least not as much. The Knicks are well balanced and well coached. They filled in some holes in the off season. Based on this I’d bet the over (except I don’t bet). For Philadelphia, I’d bet the under.

    38. Bobby Marks is predicting that there wil be lots of trades happening with the 2022 FA cupboard so bare, who knows what we’ll be looking at by season’s end or this time next year? Might as well enjoy the ride!

      Bobby Marks is making our front office look smart with all the contracts they signed that give two year commitments.

    39. And e, I tend to agree that a team better than the Magic and Hornets but not near the Sixers and Celtics (who have had a ton of hope, which is good enough for an exciting season as a fan) is the most likely outcome. And as far as drafting goes, that’s rough. But it does put you in a position like the Raptors were in, where one timely trade can turn you from an ECSF also-ran to a title contender overnight. That’s not a bad place to be.

      I come from a place of asking the question, “What would feel best as a fan?” and I think competitiveness is good enough at this point. One disgruntled star away from a deep playoff run? Sign me up.

    40. Adam Pullen, assistant director of trading for Caesars Sportsbook, said that while Westbrook positively impacted the Lakers’ win total, he’s not sure how interested any of the top teams will be during the regular season.

      “That’s why you see the highest total at an unusually low 54.5,” Pullen told ESPN. “All that matters is keeping players healthy. Just no reason to go all out in the regular season anymore. Load management is the name of the game.”

      ha, thibs skull bangs your load management…48 wins seems pretty possible…

    41. E, all merc’d out:
      The draft board cold
      The in-cin-i-ray-shon
      Make tonight a horrible thing
      (Say it again)
      The draft board cold
      The-in-cin-i-ray-shon
      Make tonight a horrible thing
      ….

      E, great rewrite of one of my faves from Steely Dan. Thanks.

    42. The Honorable Cock Jowles: I come from a place of asking the question, “What would feel best as a fan?” and I think competitiveness is good enough at this point. One disgruntled star away from a deep playoff run? Sign me up.

      And this very place is where we were hoping we’d get to for years…not just one disgruntled star away, but with the pieces and flexibility to make it happen without becoming the Blazers. The remaining issue is whether the FO can be trusted to make it happen the way that Ujiri did.

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