Knicks Morning News (2015.04.19)

  • [New York Times] Harden Has 24 Points, Rockets Beat Mavs 118-108 in Game 1 (Sun, 19 Apr 2015 05:32:44 GMT)

    James Harden loves games like the one Houston had Saturday night.

  • [New York Times] Rose Scores 23, Bulls Beat Bucks 103-91 (Sun, 19 Apr 2015 03:17:44 GMT)

    Through three long years of knee surgeries and recoveries, the Chicago Bulls waited for this. And when the moment arrived, here is what Derrick Rose did.

  • [New York Times] Bulls 103, Bucks 91: Derrick Rose Puts Injuries, and Doubts, Behind Him as Bulls Defeat Bucks (Sun, 19 Apr 2015 03:10:08 GMT)

    Rose, a former most valuable player, dazzled, scoring 23 points in 27 minutes on 9-for-16 shooting, and adding seven assists in Chicago’s 103-91 victory.

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    Mike Kurylo

    Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

    69 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2015.04.19)”

    1. Amare not feeling very phenomenal after a 2-12 FG, 3 TO performance in 16 minutes last night. Yikes.

      Also, I know absolutely none of this is on former DPOY and god of efficiency Tyson Chandler, but how the hell does Dallas give up 118 points in a playoff game?

    2. A few thoughts re: Dolan, Phil and Melo:

      Dolan: he is a meddling idiot with poor judgment, but he is also a big spender with a lot of patience with people he likes. He rewards loyalty to a fault, e.g. with Amare, Melo, and even Isiah. As much as the Rangers and Knicks operate in different universes, Dolan could have kept the Rangers in perpetual mediocrity/failure as well. Yet here they are, a top-tier team, and Dolan’s loyalty, patience and willingness to spend are a part of what has allowed them to get there.

      Phil: he definitely could have done better on all the moves he made thus far. But he also never did the job before, and a learning curve is expected. I don’t think his signature move will be re-signing Melo to a “max” deal, since there was no “clear” alternate path to short-term success (within the next 5 years.) Nobody, but nobody, anticipated that EVEN IF WE DID NOT RE-SIGN MELO that we would have been in the #2 lottery position, as the debate at the start of the year was “would Philly win 10 games on their way to maybe the worst season ever?” He made it clear from the start that he wasn’t going to sacrifice the long-term plan for short-term success, and his “playoff aspirations” for this year were lukewarm at best (i.e. competing for the 8th seed in an historically bad conference.” So despite the recalibration to “plan B” in mid-season, he has stayed pretty true to the plan. So his legacy will be based on what he does this off-season.

      As to Melo and his new contract, I’m pretty confident it won’t be anywhere near as bad as the Amare signing, or the original Melo signing. There may have been an unknown “opportunity cost” but it’s hard to know what might have transpired had Jax not re-signed Melo. But I don’t see why Melo’s career path can’t be similar to Paul Pierce’s in terms of longevity. In addition, the cap is nearly doubling in the next 3 years, so the cap implications are far less daunting.

    3. On a related note, the original Melo signing might have saved us from getting stuck with Deron Williams. If I recall correctly, when Deron was traded to the Nets for a big package, there was a lot of hand wringing on this site about how we could have landed him if we had only not made the Melo trade. If you look at the Melo deal compared to the Deron deal (I know Deron was maxed later, but there is no reason to believe that we wouldn’t have maxed him as well) it doesn’t seem quite as bad.

    4. Player A:

      45.2% FG on 21.8 FGA 40.2 3FG% on 5.4 3FGA 84.8 FT% on 7FTA

      Player B:

      44% FG on 18.1 FGA 37.5 3FG% on 6.9 3FGA 86.8 FT% on 10.2 FTA

      Guess which one of these is average and which one is an MVP canidate.

    5. Player A managed 27.4 PPG on 21.3 FGA per game, and had a .561 TS%.

      Player B managed 27.4 PPG on 18.1 FGA per game, and had a .605 TS%.

      44 points of TS% isn’t nothing, which is why Player A is not an MVP candidate and Player B is.

    6. Haha. funny. I think TS% is flawed in the evaluation of players. If i shoot better than you from the field and from three but you shoot 3 more fts a game are you a vastly better player? Even if you say hes better i wont argue but to say one is vastly better is BS

    7. how is shooting better from three and the field not being efficient? You refuse to acknowledge this.

      TS% is literally made up. FG% and 3 point% is not

      Always about love for melo with you people. Like when have i ever said that? I just think the guy is unfairly criticized if he breathes in a way you dont approve of

    8. So efficiency isn’t important, and overrated. Now I see why you love Melo so much.

      Efficiency is made up of two parts: How well you shoot, and shooting distribution. Quite often, the shooting distribution is skewed because players are knuckleheads that won’t make the smart play (so they deserve the blame for the poor %TS)

      But in other occasions your role in the team matters. In P&R, the roll man usually has a higher efficiency than the ballhandler, even though both are responsible for each others points. Why you regard so highly the roll man, and then mock the ballhandler?

    9. If i shoot better than you from the field and from three but you shoot 3 more fts a game are you a vastly better player?

      If I score the same amount of points using fewer possessions than you, I am indeed a better offensive player. This is to say nothing of Harden’s massive assists advantage. James Harden is vastly superior to Carmelo Anthony.

    10. But in other occasions your role in the team matters. In P&R, the roll man usually has a higher efficiency than the ballhandler, even though both are responsible for each others points. Why you regard so highly the roll man, and then mock the ballhandler?

      Sure, but it’s not like we’re comparing Carmelo Anthony and Tyson Chandler here. We’re comparing Carmelo Anthony and James Harden, both scoring wings, so it’s an apples to apples comparison.

    11. I don’t know about vastly. He might be better but I think they’re around the same ballpark when both are healthy.

    12. how is shooting better from three and the field not being efficient? You refuse to acknowledge this.

      The MFer scored the same amount of points while using fewer possessions.

      Let’s do a thought exercise– let’s say instead of the three extra free throws Harden makes every game, he made one extra three pointer instead. Now he’s shooting .522 from three. Do you now understand why he is WAY more efficient than Melo?

      TS% is literally made up. FG% and 3 point% is not

      Kind of like how slugging percentage and on-base percentage are made up, but batting average is not.

    13. Kind of like how slugging percentage and on-base percentage are made up, but batting average is not.

      no slugging percentage simply takes into account extra base hits. TS% you are multiplying things by .44

      et’s do a thought exercise– let’s say instead of the three extra free throws Harden makes every game, he made one extra three pointer instead. Now he’s shooting .522 from three. Do you now understand why he is WAY more efficient than Melo?

      HUH? hes shot worse from 3 and worse from the field as a whole. Harden is great at getting to the line. I think the best in the league the last 3 years.

      Lets do a thought exercise. If Melo and harden were at the YMCA playing with no foul shots who would be more efficient?

    14. Sure, but it’s not like we’re comparing Carmelo Anthony and Tyson Chandler here. We’re comparing Carmelo Anthony and James Harden, both scoring wings, so it’s an apples to apples comparison.

      Yeah, i know. But pointing TS% is a bit vague. You could trace it.

      From http://stats.nba.com/playtype/

      Harden attempts 21.5% plays catalogued ‘Transition’ with a PPP of 1.12
      Anthony attempts 9.8% plays catalogued ‘Transition’ with a PPP of 1.21

      I am pretty sure that Harden’s 2.6 %STL to Anthony’s 1.5 %STL plays a role here. But i think the way the rest of the team plays is also important. Do the knicks force turnovers? Is always Carmelo ready to run the field when a opponent TO happens? Was Shumpert/JR/Tim the one who looks to run the field in that kind of situations? Does Houston give up something on D to get more transition opportunites (Heck, Sacramento played 4 on 5 D for a while)? Can Houston afford to give up something on D because they count on Howard covering it up?

      The analysis can go much beyond Harden 60 %TS good, Anthony 55 %TS bad. I mean, it is boring to read the same comment every time. It would be nice if someone went deeper. Advanced statistics go much further than TS or composite numbers like PER or WP48.

      And i agree, Harden is a better player than Anthony and definitely top 5 in the NBA.

      PS: Harden’s whistle vs Anthony’s whistle is another interesting point of debate, but outside of the realm of statistics, and into the realm of scenic arts.

    15. Lets do a thought exercise. If Melo and harden were at the YMCA playing with no foul shots who would be more efficient?

      Who cares?

    16. Avery Bradley forces JR into a step-back 20 footer.

      Mark Jackson: “Once again we see a good example of pretty good defense by Bradley, but better offense by JR Smith.”

      That’s why you’re no longer coaching, Mark.

    17. What’s the over/under for the number of times we’ll hear the word “scrappy” used to describe the Celtics this series?

    18. Yes but we dont operate in a vacuum ,its not the end all.

      Sure, but you at the very least implied that raw FG% was superior…

    19. I didn’t mean to imply that. I’m just pointing to the raw stats to show that there isn’t some vast ocean between the players. Maybe I’m not explaining myself properly but I see two players and one shoots better than the other on more FGAs and is somehow vastly inferior. That just doesn’t compute to me.

    20. But it’s quite obvious: last night Harden played not that well, and still scored 24 pts on 11 FGA (to say nothing of 11 assists). If Melo shot with the same averages he had for the season, he would have needed 18 shots to score the same amount (8-18 FG, 2-5 from 3, 6-7 FT). That’s the difference, for example.

    21. If Melo shot (and scored on) 3 more FT per game, he would be a much more efficient player by virtue of making good use of around 1.5 more possessions per game. That’s a lot.

    22. If you take that 3 shots that Melo misses every game to a team level, considering 1 PPP, It’s the difference between the Grizzlies 55 wins season and the Jazz 38.

      It makes a LOT of difference.

    23. If every starter on the Knicks drew 3 additional FT a game and made 2 of them, you’d be looking at the 3-seed in the East.

    24. I have never seen a player getting hot like Kyrie can. I still don’t like his general way of playing, but he has some of the most incredibile in-game streaks I can remember.

    25. But watching James harden flop his way to the line 12 times a night is very taxing on the soul. You’ve got to look at that.

    26. Boy, this scrappy Boston team sure can scrape it’s way back into a scrappy game. Scrappy.

    27. When comparing Harden’s “efficiency” to Melo’s, we’re ignoring Harden’s 4 turnovers a game, right? That’s fair because his 1-1/2 more turnovers per game don’t cost his team possessions, right?

    28. When comparing Harden’s “efficiency” to Melo’s, we’re ignoring Harden’s 4 turnovers a game, right? That’s fair because his 1-1/2 more turnovers per game don’t cost his team possessions, right?

      Certainly worth taking into account, but the same is true for Harden’s enormous advantage in assists.

    29. Boston has a ton of picks (albeit a bunch of them conditional and no lottery for the next 2 seasons) but who exactly is the core of that team? Isaiah Thomas? He reminds me more and more of Nate Robinson. Olynyk? Sullinger? Bradley? Evan Turner? I know we’re all supposed to acknowledge the genius of Danny Ainge, and he did rob the Nets, but I don’t think their future is as definitively bright as we’re led to believe. It all depends on whether they can trade some of those conditional picks for an established star, which will not be an easy task.

    30. Why are we even debating Harden’s efficiency? We can dislike his flopping ways, but numbers are numbers. 1.50 PPS against 1.20 PPS is the definition of superior efficiency. Every 10 shots, Harden is expected to score 3 more points.

    31. Why are we even debating Harden’s efficiency?

      Because er brought it up.

      By the way, er, it’s kinda weird to be all “Why are we still debating Melo?” the other day and then open the thread with a debate about Melo, especially one that practically invites negative commentary (by way of comparison) about Melo.

    32. I know we’re all supposed to acknowledge the genius of Danny Ainge

      Why? What’s he done other than being gifted Kevin Garnett for nothing?

    33. @51

      I wasn’t debating hardens efficiency. I was comparing him to Melo. Also I was responding to someone yesterday who kept calling him an Average player. I figured I should put it in today’s thread.

    34. If every starter on the Knicks drew 3 additional FT a game and made 2 of them, you’d be looking at the 3-seed in the East.

      That’s the kind of post I like to read. It makes a lot of sense. Draw fouls and get to the line. It makes a difference. Player A doesn’t do it as readily as player B and despite shooting better percentages from the field, suffers demonstrably in terms of efficiency.

      The assisting part also makes the argument for “The Beard” more compelling.

      But I think where er makes a good point would be to all the Melo haters and to Melo himself. Hey haters and Melo yourself. He / you should just play with his/ your head more. Fewer mid range jumpers, more bulling to the basket, more dimes, (and teammates that can convert?). We can win with Melo. He just has to play smarter.

    35. I think that’s a tough comparison. Harden is a lead guard that handles the ball in most situations. He’s generally going to get more assists and turnovers (and most likely, foul calls for working in space more than a forward does.)
      But I think the argument does lead to the conclusion that Melo is more suited to be a pf in today’s NBA. His 3pt % is more than respectable for a stretch 4 and one of his great strengths is rebounding. He’s a better finisher than passer, for sure. I’m not sure his defense is affected either way.
      Will Fish play him at pf? I really doubt it.

    36. Someone get Phil Jackson an electric collar that gives him 1,000 volts every time he thinks about LaMarcus Aldridge.

    37. Someone get Phil Jackson an electric collar that gives him 1,000 volts every time he thinks about LaMarcus Aldridge.

      +1000% I saw a NY Post headline recently that read: “Rondo?, Aldridge? 12 Realistic Knicks free agent targets” Those 2 would be at the very bottom of my list.

    38. It really sucks that the most anticipated series of the first round doesn’t start until 10:30 on a Sunday night. Fuck you, NBA. And you too west coast.

    39. We can win with Melo. He just has to play smarter.

      Except that he’s gonna be 31 and has played about 80 million minutes in the NBA, so it would be pretty amazing to see a big spike in his efficiency numbers at this point. “Melo will be good if he just plays better” is not something that gives me a lot of hope.

    40. As dreadful as the Eastern matchups are, this Clippers-Spurs series could very well be an NBA finals matchup. I don’t see the point in having conferences anymore if there’s such disparity throughout an entire set of franchises and charter jets to get players across the country in about 6 hours flat.

    41. Hmm, we could do some kind of AFC NFC type thing while keeping rivalries intact. Id love to see it, Silver seems radical enough to consider it

    42. ohhhhhhh Barnes and Baynes….. exciting. Gave me a flashback to that bulls knicks brawl in 1994 lol.

    43. Farfa’s predictions after the first game on every series:

      GSW over NOP 4-1
      HOU over DAL 4-2
      LAC over SAS 4-1
      MEM over POR 4-0

      ATL over BKN 4-0
      CLE over BOS 4-0
      CHI over MIL 4-1
      WAS over TOR 4-2

      And then

      GSW over MEM 4-3
      HOU over LAC 4-2

      ATL over WAS 4-1
      CHI over CLE 4-3 (hot take!)

      And then

      GSW over HOU 4-1
      CHI over ATL 4-2 (double hot take!)

      And then

      GSW over CHI 4-2.

      Mark my words.

    44. Chicago does have better personnel this year, especially if Rose can be good; but your prediction still seems wildly optimistic. I would pick Atlanta and Cleveland to be in the conference finals, with the winner of that series a toss up

    45. I think the reason the Harden-Melo thing is so polarizing is that whistle. Harden goes out of his way to show contact and get the whistle, whereas Melo doesn’t. Harden would rather draw the foul than score on the shot, which is why he’s so efficient, and why he’s so annoying to watch.

      The Melo non-whistle is, I think, one of the weirdest things in the NBA. It’s like how Shaq and Howard got only 50% of the fouls called for them as were actually committed, except that Melo isn’t bigger than everyone else and shouldn’t be affected by the obvious bias against physically overwhelming players.

      So it’s all fine and good to say that Harden is a vastly more efficient player, but much of that is couched in something completely subjective – what’s a shooting foul and what isn’t. Harden has mastered how to get a foul called in your favor, even when it’s not.

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