Knicks Morning News (2014.12.11)

  • [New York Newsday] Report: During players-only meeting, Knicks express frustration with Carmelo, triangle (Thu, 11 Dec 2014 00:12:59 EST)

    The Knicks held a players-only meeting last weekend to air concerns about how they're playing and to try to figure out how to turn things around. Carmelo Anthony said they may need to have another one to figure out who is airing some internal matters.

  • [New York Times] Warriors Beat Rockets 105-93 for 14th Straight Win (Thu, 11 Dec 2014 06:56:32 GMT)

    Steve Kerr knew he had a lot of expectations on him after taking over a Golden State Warriors team that Mark Jackson led to a 51-win season and back-to-back playoff appearances.

  • [New York Times] Chandler, Afflalo Lead Nuggets Over Heat, 102-82 (Thu, 11 Dec 2014 06:20:34 GMT)

    Wilson Chandler scored 17 points, Arron Afflalo had 16 and the Denver Nuggets beat the Miami Heat 102-82 on Wednesday night to snap a four-game losing streak.

  • [New York Times] Belinelli Scores 22 as Spurs Roll Past Knicks (Thu, 11 Dec 2014 05:59:30 GMT)

    With both teams missing several key players, the San Antonio Spurs and the New York Knicks continued to play as they have all season.

  • [New York Times] Spurs 109, Knicks 95: Knicks Lose 10th Straight as Depleted Spurs Shine (Thu, 11 Dec 2014 05:04:11 GMT)

    Six of the biggest stars on the Spurs and the Knicks were held out of Wednesday’s game, but form still held.

  • [New York Times] U.S. Chokehold Protesters Stage ‘Die-Ins’, Issue Demands in NY (Thu, 11 Dec 2014 05:02:30 GMT)

    Students at medical schools around the United States staged “die-ins” to protest the chokehold death by police of an unarmed black man, and New York activists demanded the city take action after a grand jury declined to indict the officer involved.

  • [New York Times] N.B.A. Roundup: Hawks and Clippers Extend Their Streaks (Thu, 11 Dec 2014 04:59:42 GMT)

    Kyle Korver and Paul Millsap each scored 17 points, and Atlanta beat the Philadelphia 76ers, 95-79, giving the Hawks their longest winning streak in 17 years.

  • [New York Times] Amid Trade Rumors, Sluggish Nets Drop Third Straight (Thu, 11 Dec 2014 04:56:11 GMT)

    By the end of a night in which they were blown out by the Bulls, the Nets had traded Andrei Kirilenko to the 76ers, according to a person with knowledge of the deal.

  • [New York Times] Wiggins, Wolves Stun Blazers 90-82 (Thu, 11 Dec 2014 04:50:41 GMT)

    The Portland Trail Blazers had trimmed a 20-point deficit to four in the fourth quarter, and the young Minnesota Timberwolves looked a little jittery as they tried to hold off the charge.

  • [New York Times] Hawks Beat 76ers 95-79 for 8th Straight Win (Thu, 11 Dec 2014 04:38:31 GMT)

    The Atlanta Hawks weren’t going to let an ugly shooting night — or the last-place Philadelphia 76ers — mess up their winning streak.

  • [New York Times] Ellis Helps Mavericks Outlast Pelicans, 112-107 (Thu, 11 Dec 2014 04:05:34 GMT)

    Monta Ellis scored 13 of his 26 points in the final 5 minutes and the Dallas Mavericks outlasted the New Orleans Pelicans 112-107 on Wednesday night.

  • [New York Times] Carmelo Anthony Sits, and Shrugs Off Talk of Discord (Thu, 11 Dec 2014 03:58:02 GMT)

    Anthony rested his sore left knee during the Knicks’ loss to the San Antonio Spurs, their ninth straight defeat, and denied that a players-only meeting had been particularly contentious.

  • [New York Times] Bulls Pull Away From Nets for 105-80 Victory (Thu, 11 Dec 2014 03:44:38 GMT)

    Derrick Rose scored 23 points, Pau Gasol had 16 points and 16 rebounds, and the balanced Chicago Bulls beat the Brooklyn Nets 105-80 on Wednesday night.

  • [New York Times] Beal’s Shot at Buzzer Lifts Wizards Past Magic (Thu, 11 Dec 2014 03:14:39 GMT)

    Bradley Beal converted a lob pass at the buzzer to lift the Washington Wizards to a 91-89 victory over the Orlando Magic on Wednesday night.

  • [New York Times] Jefferson Leads Hornets to 96-87 Win Over Celtics (Thu, 11 Dec 2014 02:56:39 GMT)

    Al Jefferson had 23 points and 14 rebounds, and the Charlotte Hornets withstood Boston’s fourth-quarter rally and beat the Celtics 96-87 on Wednesday night.

  • [New York Times] Hot Clippers Hold Off Pacers’ Charge, Win 103-96 (Thu, 11 Dec 2014 02:47:41 GMT)

    Jamal Crawford scored 18 points and DeAndre Jordan grabbed a season-high 19 rebounds, helping the Los Angeles Clippers hold off the Indiana Pacers 103-96 on Wednesday night.

  • [New York Times] Derrick Rose Sees Taking a Stand as His Responsibility (Thu, 11 Dec 2014 02:08:36 GMT)

    In Rose’s hometown of Chicago, he was already known as someone with a social conscience even before he donned the “I Can’t Breathe” T-shirt, setting the stage for other N.B.A. players to do so.

  • [ESPN.com – New York Knicks] How much blame falls on Derek Fisher? (Thu, 11 Dec 2014 01:30:07 EDT)

    SAN ANTONIO — Somewhere in New York on Thursday, a group of basketball fans will probably be talking about Derek Fisher’s performance in the wake of the Knicks’ historically bad start. Interestingly enough, conversations about the rookie coach have also been taking place inside the Knicks’ locker room. “That’s one of the things we talk about as a team,” Samuel Dalembert said before a recent Knicks home game. “We think of the situation. We’re like, ‘Hey, put yourself in his shoes.

  • [New York Daily News] Carmelo: No problems with Hardaway, Knicks teammates (Thu, 11 Dec 2014 07:22:59 GMT)

    Carmelo Anthony said Wednesday the last thing the Knicks need right now is locker room leaks tearing the team apart.

  • [New York Daily News] Knicks star Carmelo Anthony could be facing surgery on knee (Thu, 11 Dec 2014 05:56:09 GMT)

    It may take a small miracle for Carmelo Anthony to end up in the playoffs this season.

  • [New York Daily News] Lupica: Zen & now, Phil Jackson sees Knicks losses pile up (Thu, 11 Dec 2014 04:56:58 GMT)

    Once Isiah Thomas was going to be the Knicks’ savior, then it was going to be Larry Brown, then Donnie Walsh.

  • [New York Daily News] Putrid Knicks crushed by Spurs second-stringers (Thu, 11 Dec 2014 04:00:05 GMT)

    Tim Duncan, Tony Parker, Manu Ginobli and Kawhi Leonard were out of the lineup for the defending champion Spurs.

  • [New York Post] Free-falling Knicks lose to Spurs’ JV team as losing skid hits 10 (Thu, 11 Dec 2014 00:09:25 -0500)

    SAN ANTONIO — The Knicks are first in something — first to 20 losses. With Detroit idle, the Knicks gained the mantle of owning the most losses in the NBA…

  • [New York Post] Free-falling Knicks lose to Spurs’ JV team as losing skid hits 10 (Thu, 11 Dec 2014 00:09:25 -0500)

    SAN ANTONIO — The Knicks are first in something — first to 20 losses. With Detroit idle, the Knicks gained the mantle of owning the most losses in the NBA…

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    Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

    121 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2014.12.11)”

    1. First Knicks game in several years I didn’t even think about watching.

      Prediction- Melo shuts it down for the rest of December – then in January decides to have surgery and doesn’t come back until after the ASB. Knicks may go winless during that stretch without him on the court.

    2. Prediction- Melo shuts it down for the rest of December – then in January decides to have surgery and doesn’t come back until after the ASB. Knicks may go winless during that stretch without him on the court.

      Yes, but since we may go winless even with him on the court, the most he rests the better we are in the long term.

      Also: I watched all the game this time (I had a few hours free this morning), and I have to say I liked what I saw in the first quarter, at least until Jason Smith came in. I don’t know if I am harboring a hatred so deep that I despise any minute Jason Smith stays on the court, but I swear I saw the body language of the other players go sour as soon as he entered the game. It’s like they know he won’t be able to do anything save for jacking shots from 16-20 feet (and sometimes hitting them, yes, but still).

      Also again: a system that has the long two as a goal, and not as a secondary option, is destined to fail, especially when said long two has to be taken by the likes of Dalembert (in the first quarter there was a play that was intended to end with a Dalembert jumper. WTF?). As of now, what the Triangle is doing with these players is to free someone to shoot lightly contested 20-footers. Better personal would yield better results, but since we don’t have it, buckle up for lots of Travis Wear bricks (after a loooong ball rotation).

    3. If you just didn’t watch the 3rd quarter, where we held the Spurs to 85% shooting from the field, it was a pretty watchable game. Timmy played well on offense and attacked the glass for 3 rebounds. Jason Smith got a rebound too! And the defense! Oh man. And I’m not even talking about the 3rd, where the Spurs dropped in 6-7 wide fucking open 3 point shots while romping to a 38 point quarter. I mean it was pretty bad the rest of the game too. Have you ever wondered what it would be like to watch Matt Bonner play against a mediocre HS team? Did you even know that Matt Bonner can beat people off the dribble and drive the lane?

    4. It’s a shame the Garden doesn’t boo Jason Smith like there’s no tomorrow (we know the Garden can do that like a champion). Till now I just heard some faint boos from time to time. We need a full Jared Jeffries (pre-MDA) treatment for him. Also someone should make fun of him for his bald spot.

    5. Did you even know that Matt Bonner can beat people off the dribble and drive the lane?

      Drive and kick for a Kyle Anderson slam!

    6. BigBlueAL
      July 15, 2014 at 7:56 pm
      Looks like Knicks signed Jason Smith with their mini-MLE today to a 1yr deal.

      DRed
      July 15, 2014 at 7:57 pm
      3 million for a 27 year old who sucks is a fair price in this market

    7. http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/235829/Knicks-Players-Dont-Like-Triangle-Hope-To-Run-Different-System

      THERE IT IS! The official “Carmelo Anthony does not like the triangle offense” headline. I thought it might take until February, but here we are, December 11, and MMM is throwing the coach, the GM and the system under the bus, probably because he wants to iso-Melo more.

      Melo is a goddamn cancer, and Phil was a fool to give him that contract. Same as it ever was. You suck, Melo. Fuck you and your “brand.” Your “brand” is that you’re a whining diva jerk.

    8. THERE IT IS! The official “Carmelo Anthony does not like the triangle offense” headline. I thought it might take until February, but here we are, December 11, and MMM is throwing the coach, the GM and the system under the bus, probably because he wants to iso-Melo more.

      Melo is a goddamn cancer, and Phil was a fool to give him that contract. Same as it ever was. You suck, Melo. Fuck you and your “brand.” Your “brand” is that you’re a whining diva jerk.

      I’m not sure it is something about iso-Melo in terms of stat-padding, I think he’s embracing the Kobe philosophy.

    9. All I want is to be able to watch games and not vomit.
      @JK47 – Melo is not the problem. He had nothing to do with last night’s disaster.
      @Farfa & @DRed – Jason Smith makes me yearn for Bargnani,

    10. @8 not sure if trolling. Isn’t that basicly what the “sources” said yesterday? This time it just says “carmelo And the knicks”

    11. Oh, and did you see Golden State? I thought Fisher and Kerr would be equal in terms of coaching attitude, but dang, Kerr went to win tonight going with a lineup of Curry-Livingston-Thompson-Barnes-Green. Draymond Green at center! And we are playing Jason Smith! Fish, if you are not able to coach at least get creative.

    12. @Farfa & @DRed – Jason Smith makes me yearn for Bargnani,

      Bargs is at least 70% funnier than Jason Smith. Plus he will block someone from time to time. Does someone know why he’s still wearing suit-and-tie, instead of running around on the court?

    13. “Have you ever wondered what it would be like to watch Matt Bonner play against a mediocre HS team?”

      lol.

    14. For real? Kerr’s done a very fine job so far, but come the fuck on. That lineup has some talented basketball players in it. Here were Derek Fisher’s options for center last night:

      1. Sam Dalembert, who seems to be hitting an age wall
      2. Amare, who should not play big minutes on a back to back and is an awful trainwreck on defense
      3. Cole, the right choice, who seems out of shape and loves to foul
      4. Jason Smithnani

      I guess if you wanted to get creative you could put undrafted for a reason rookie Travis Wear at center, but he sucks too and is pretty small. Acy? I like Acy and all, but he’s not really that good and is small.

    15. I think if Popovich could have done it over again, he would have rested his entire roster and let the chips fall where they may.

    16. Rant warning:

      the Triangle is not the problem at all, although the offense isn’t great by any stretch. The defense is absolutely putrid.

      If you go month to month the offense has been getting better. ORtg in Oct (only 2 games) was 99, 101 in November, 103.3 in December according to NBA.com. 103.3 ORtg is basically league average even though they’ve played a harder-than-average schedule against defenses in December. We always knew the triangle was going to take months to improve, and the offense is slowly getting better. Chris Herring wrote an article preseason that the other triangle teams needed 4-5 months to get to their peak efficiency, and my guess is (barring injuries to Melo) that it’ll be the same for us.

      I’m just really disappointed in the defense. I think a lot of us thought it was Woodson’s scheme that made our D so awful, but the truth is, we have awful defensive players and we also traded away our best defender.

      I really hope the team isn’t blaming the triangle. It’s the defense, which has little to do with the triangle other than the spacing when getting back on D.

      let’s look at the sad defensive stats:

      LAST in defensive rebounding
      LAST in fouls per defensive play

      we bail teams out with fouls, and even when we don’t foul, we can’t end the possession. shocking, shocking I say, when we have foul machines like Amare, Shump, Jason Smith, and even Cole, and shocking when we have some of the worst defensive rebounders on the planet populating our front court (disclaimer – Amare doing a nice job on the boards this year). And Bargnani isn’t even playing!

      Amazingly, despite our sad sack 3 point defense, our EFG% against (50.7%) is 20th in the league, ahead of good defensive teams like Toronto, and is within 0.5% of league average. It’s the fouling and extra possessions that are absolutely killing us.

    17. Sorry DRed, I didn’t mean to say that about last night. That lineup is made up of 4 wonderful players and a talented other (Barnes). Our lineups this season will always be made of 60% bad players. That said, it was unconventional even for modern NBA to put Green at center (I’m sure Kerr wouldn’t have done it if Howard was able to play).

      I meant to stress the fact that Fisher seems unable to recognize that sometimes throwing weird looks at the opponents can do wonders for a shitty team. We did some experiments with dual point guards, but we should experiment some more.

    18. “Oh, and did you see Golden State? I thought Fisher and Kerr would be equal in terms of coaching attitude, but dang, Kerr went to win tonight going with a lineup of Curry-Livingston-Thompson-Barnes-Green. Draymond Green at center! And we are playing Jason Smith! Fish, if you are not able to coach at least get creative.”
      Fisher went with a lineup of Melo at the 5 (guarding Anthony Davis) for a decent stretch the other night. Also, the Knicks’ inability to get to the line is not really because of the triangle, it’s because hardly any of their players are capable of driving to the basket and drawing a foul. Last year, when they were running the anti-triangle offense, they were 28th in the league in FTA. When was the last time you saw a guard on the Knicks other than Hardaway actually try to drive to the basket? Finally, in their 10 games prior to last night, the Knicks were taking over 24 3s a game, which is top 10 in the league.

    19. “Amazingly, despite our sad sack 3 point defense”
      In the 10 games prior to last night, the Knicks held their opponents to about 30% from 3.

    20. the Triangle is not the problem at all, although the offense isn’t great by any stretch. The defense is absolutely putrid.

      I agree (in the long term). I’m hating on it for two reasons:

      1) Right now we’re playing the worst basketball in the NBA this side of Brooklyn (aestethically speaking – not an advanced stat), and that’s saying a lot. Philadelphia plays better. Lakers play better. Wolves play bad but still better. There are times this Knicks make me want to gouge my eyes off with a rusty screwdriver.
      2) At least bench the guys who don’t fully adhere to your principles! You want the Triangle, fine. Bench every guy who dribbles around for 5 seconds before launching a turnaround fadeaway contested jumper, dammit!

    21. When was the last time you saw a guard on the Knicks other than Hardaway actually try to drive to the basket?

      Shumpert goes to the rim… and misses the layup! :(

    22. Ever since Melo signed that MMM contract and talked all that bullshit about how he just wanted to win, and how he’s going to buy into the system, ever since that day I have repeatedly said over and over again that someday soon some of the people from Melo’s “branding” team would start to leak that Melo does not like playing in the triangle. After all the talk about being a team player, and buying into Phil’s vision, I knew it was going to happen sooner rather than later.

      I’m just kind of amazed it only took until December 11. The article says “the players have been ready to move on from the triangle for several weeks to another system.” So they gave it what, a whole couple of weeks before deciding they were through with it? This is just SO MELO. Really, I have had enough of this douchebag. Wake me up in 2019 when his joke of a contract runs out.

    23. “Oh, and did you see Golden State? I thought Fisher and Kerr would be equal in terms of coaching attitude”

      How many times a day does Steve Kerr think to himself, I am so happy I am not coaching the Knicks? 1000?

      I have been sick of Melo since before he arrived but my Melonausea has reached ebola levels right now.

    24. How many times a day does Steve Kerr think to himself, I am so happy I am not coaching the Knicks? 1000?

      Is it possible that Kerr did not want to come here because he doesn’t want to play the full Triangle (as we all can see)? Or it was just because our players are much worse?

    25. I imagine Kerr chose GS over the Knicks because they had a vastly superior roster, were paying him more money, and his family is on the west coast.

    26. How many times a day does Steve Kerr think to himself, I am so happy I am not coaching the Knicks? 1000?

      –I mean if the Knicks get Okafor and a nice FA in the East. He may be mad next year. The west is hard man. Good luck if they get OKC in the 1st round lol

    27. “Shumpert goes to the rim… and misses the layup! :(”
      Oh. Right. Forgot about that. Strange that I forgot since it seems to happen several times a game. I’ll rephrase my question — When was the last time that you saw a Knicks guard other than Hardaway drive to the rim and actually hit a shot or draw a foul?

    28. It is always hard to tease out credit between natural player improvement and a coaches contribution to positioning a player to maximize his productivity. Normally, I default toward the former being much more important, but in this case there are some very promising early returns from the Kerr era. Harrison Barnes has improved substantially. Same for Draymond Green. Some of that may be from small sample size and some may be from young players improving, but I think Kerr might deserve some credit too. Klay Thompson is getting to line 6/36 after averaging 3 for three years. And they have the best defense in the NBA after everyone thought they were playing over their heads defensively last year at #6. Their SRS has jumped from 5 to 10. It’s early, but I wouldn’t blow off what Kerr has done entirely to talent.

    29. It’s called building your team around young players, who often take leaps in productivity in their early to mid 20’s.

      The key players on Golden State are Curry (26), Klay Thompson (24), Harrison Barnes (22), Draymond Green (24). Those four guys lead the team in minutes. It’s not surprising that Thompson, Barnes and Green are having breakout seasons– they are simply developing as players.

      When you build your team around high-priced free agents who have already had their best seasons– like Carmelo Anthony and Amar’e Stoudemire– and then fill in the rest of the roster with ancient players just waiting for the wheels to fall off (Jason Kidd, Marcus Camby, Metta World Peace, Rasheed Wallace, etc) and other end-of-roster dreck you’re likely headed on a downward trajectory rather than up.

    30. Yeah, it’s tough. Draymond and Harrison are playing better, but they’re also at the age where you expect players not named Iman Shumpert to improve.

    31. For real? Kerr’s done a very fine job so far, but come the fuck on. That lineup has some talented basketball players in it.

      See, this is the most frustrating thing for Knick fans– not that Kerr chose GS over NY, but that Golden State’s roster is so much better. People on this board say things like “the draft is a crap shoot” and that building through the draft doesn’t lead to success unless “you luck into getting a top-pick”. Golden State (19-2) drafted 4 of their 5 starters. Their highest pick was #7. (Curry #7, Barnes #7, Thompson #11, Green #35). They had to endure a few losing seasons in an extremely competitive conference, but they never tanked. They just went through a period where they invested in their core youth. They had the opportunity to trade Thompson and Barnes this summer for a more famous player and didn’t. The Knicks would have. Because they don’t value youth. They only value fame.

      This is why Kerr chose GS. This is why GS can continue to beat top teams when their starting center goes down.

      This is the culture that Phil is supposed to change.

    32. I think not enough people realize how random “3 point defense” is. A couple of posts from Kenpom, albeit analyzing college, but it’s logical (to me at least) that the NBA would work similarly:

      http://kenpom.com/blog/index.php/weblog/defense_has_little_control_over_opponents_3p/
      http://kenpom.com/blog/index.php/weblog/entry/one_last_post_on_3p_defense

      When the Knicks were allowing 43% from the 3 pt line, that was largely bad luck. And stats like “In the 10 games prior to last night, the Knicks held their opponents to about 30% from 3” or the entire Mavericks game (Mavs were 4-31 from 3, only reason Knicks weren’t destroyed that game) are largely attributable to good fortune rather than any difference in play from the Knicks.

      They’ve allowed one extra 3 attempt per game than league average and have the 10th highest 3pt attempt rate as a percentage of all field goals (stats that are much more controllable by the defense). Their 3 point defense is bad but not nearly as bad as their fouling or especially their defensive rebounding.

    33. Not much to say about last night’s game, but I do want to make sure that everyone, particularly all the STAT lovers, saw him get destroyed off the dribble by Aron Baynes last night so badly that he had to take a swing at his head to stop a layup. Aron Baynes!

      Also I’m starting to be extremely disappointed with Calderon. I know he was hurt for a while and still trying to find his groove, get used to the system, etc. but 11 games in now, and he has been way, way short of what was advertised on offense (although actually less of a disaster on defense than I expected). He looks more than content to fade into the background, even when we desperately need somebody to score the ball (like last night). Is he convincing anybody that he’s even a top-25 PG in the league? I love a 2nd round pick as much as the next guy, but that Tyson trade is looking like a pretty embarrassing blunder by Phil.

    34. I mean, who could have possibly foreseen that a guy who plays as many minutes as Melo would possibly have some nagging injury problems as he gets older? That’s preposterous. Nate Silver said that contract would be worth it.

    35. Let’s just go full retard and trade Bargs for Josh Smith, flip the 2018 first rounder for I dunno, Eric Gordon or something, trade Amar’e for Brook Lopez and find somebody to give swap rights to for the 2015 and 2017 picks.

      PG – Jose Calderon
      SG – Eric Gordon
      SF – Melo
      PF – Josh Smith
      C – Brook Lopez

      Now THAT’S a team.

    36. –Golden State (19-2) drafted 4 of their 5 starters. Their highest pick was #7. (Curry #7, Barnes #7, Thompson #11, Green #35).

      Knicks picks
      Galinari #6
      Jordan Hill #8
      Andy Rautins #38
      Fields #39
      Hardaway #24

      So i mean the Knicks had their shots. Are any of these guys as good as Draymond? Maybe Gallo and J Hill?

    37. The Knicks didn’t hold opposing teams to 30% from three, the opposing teams simply missed 70% of their wide open shots.

    38. nyk8806
      December 11, 2014 at 12:21 am
      Somewhere in LA, a shiny-headed assistant coach is laughing his ass off.

      At the fact that he has a job, presumably.

      Fuck Woodson.

    39. I really hope we get rid of Calderon. He’s just too old out there. With no JR and Calderon going into next season, I think we will be in as good shape as we can be (still terrible though).

    40. The truly disturbing trend (across eras from MDA to Woody to Fisher) is the lack of improvement of young players. Gallinari who was hyped as “the best shooter I’ve ever seen” regressed as a shooter under MDA. He did not improve. His 3% went from 44% to 38% to 35% in his 3 years w the team. Shumpert has regressed in his main skill which was as a defensive stopper. Hardaway’s TS% is down and his 3% is down over last year and that was supposed to be his strength. There is no reason for this except I guess the lack of a consistent system and player development program. But it is far and away the most disturbing sign. JR Smith is a worse player as a Knick than career as well. Looks like we are getting the same from Calderon. It’s really quite alarming.

    41. Amazingly, per the following quote from the Times, the Net are trading away even more draft picks:

      [The Nets] completed a trade, sending Andrei Kirilenko and a 2020 second-round pick to the Philadelphia 76ers for Brandon Davies, according to a person with knowledge of the deal. Philadelphia also has the right to swap second-round picks with the Nets in 2018.

    42. So i mean the Knicks had their shots. Are any of these guys as good as Draymond? Maybe Gallo and J Hill?

      The point is that teams don’t need to tank, or luck into the #1 pick to build a competitive team through the draft. With the exception of 08/09, the Knicks were drafting every two years. They traded their future picks for Curry (2007), for Marbury (2010), for McGrady (2012), for Anthony (2014), for Bargnani (2016). That isn’t really taking a shot. That is stacking the deck against yourself, then blaming the process for your failings.

      And Golden State is not the exception that proves the rule. 1st place Toronto drafted 3 of their starters outside of the top 4 (DeRozan, Ross, Valanciunas), and the rising Kings did too (Cousins, McLemore, and Thompson).

      And, most frustrating, is that the Knicks are actually really good at identifying the correct players to draft. Hardaway was a good choice at #24; Shumpert was good at #17; Fields was great at #39; Chandler was great at #23. Even Hill and Gallinari were reasonably good picks in ’08 and ’09, even though Walsh, correctly, had targeted Westbrook and Curry with those picks, only to be denied on draft day.

    43. I really hope we get rid of Calderon. He’s just too old out there. With no JR and Calderon going into next season, I think we will be in as good shape as we can be (still terrible though).

      –yup and renounce shump. plenty of cap room in the offseason

    44. @51 it’s crazy how many of the playoff teams have players they drafted as their top 3-4 players:

      Portland: Aldrige, Lillard, Batum
      GS: Curry, Thompson (Barnes/Green)
      Memphis: Gasol and Conley
      Chicago: Rose, Noah, Butler (Gibson)
      Toronto: DeRozan, Jonas (Ross)
      Atlanta: Horford and Teague
      Washington: Wall and Beal (Porter looks really promising this season after a crazy bad last season)
      OKC: Russ, Ibaka, Durant, Jackson, Adams (their top 5!)

    45. So great, we’re looking to dump the main piece that Phil brought back in the Tyson Chandler trade, a piece that has a contract that runs through 2017. BRILLIANT.

    46. @53 its not really crazy. The Knicks traded a shit ton of picks in the run up to lebron and the curry marbury era. And the one for Melo this year. most teams dont trade the picks and some of the top picks are bound to pan out. Out of those teams im sure they had bad picks too. But they had room for error as they had their picks.

    47. yeah you’re right. Also some of the perennial-loser teams like GS, Toronto, Washington (and maybe Sacramento from now on) have gotten it together the last 2 years

    48. I think not enough people realize how random “3 point defense” is. A couple of posts from Kenpom, albeit analyzing college, but it’s logical (to me at least) that the NBA would work similarly:

      When the Knicks were allowing 43% from the 3 pt line, that was largely bad luck.

      eh… not buying kenpom’s stats. When Sportvu tells you you’re giving about 2 feet more space to 3 point shooters than the average team, THAT’S the reason opponents are shooting 43% from 3, not luck.

      And stats like “In the 10 games prior to last night, the Knicks held their opponents to about 30% from 3? or the entire Mavericks game (Mavs were 4-31 from 3, only reason Knicks weren’t destroyed that game) are largely attributable to good fortune rather than any difference in play from the Knicks

      this I agree with. it’s good fortune when you give 6 feet of space per shot to a good 3 point shooting team, and they shoot 4/31. it’s NOT bad fortune when they shoot 43%, it’s sort of amazing that it’s not even worse.

    49. Hardaway was not a good choice in the draft. Tim Hardaway is a bad NBA player. Tim Hardaway was not a great college player. It wasn’t a terrible pick, but it wasn’t good at the time and although Tim is better than I thought he’d be, he’s still not great.

    50. re: trading a lottery pick, it all depends on what you’re getting back. hard to fault the cavs for making that trade — Anthony Bennett looked like a bust and that’s a sunk cost. Kevin Love is 26 years old and has at least 5 years left in his prime. They’d probably make that trade again and again, especially considering Lebron probably has at best 2-3 years left at demigod level.

      Now if you’re trading a lottery pick for a 30+ year old with an injury history like Rondo, that’s another story.

      i think if Phil had a 3 year contract he’d be more likely to make a trade for the here and now. but he’s signed on for 5 years. I think unless he gets blown away by a trade offer, we’ll make that pick.

    51. Hardaway was not a good choice in the draft. Tim Hardaway is a bad NBA player. Tim Hardaway was not a great college player. It wasn’t a terrible pick, but it wasn’t good at the time and although Tim is better than I thought he’d be, he’s still not great.

      +1000 although jury is still out on Timmy.

    52. “but they’re also at the age where you expect players not named Iman Shumpert to improve.”
      I’m logging off while I’m still laughing. No one will top this. Have a good day guys…

    53. Hardaway was not a good choice in the draft… Tim is better than I thought he’d be, he’s still not great.

      Nobody said he was great. He was good for the #24 pick in a generally weak draft. (If you redrafted the top 25 picks he wouldn’t be in it?)

    54. The discussion we’re having is whether or not the Knicks adequately develop their players. And it’s kind of moot to discuss whether or not the Knicks are good at player development when the players they have to work with were never any good in the first place.

      Hardaway is what he is. Was he okay value for a 24th pick in a weak draft. Sure. Should we be surprised that he is not “developing”? Nah.

    55. Remember there’s a massive element of luck when it comes to talent spotting. Golden State was ready and willing to trade Steph Curry (the Curry pick, but Phoenix was only interested if Curry was available, thank you David Kahn) for Amar’e, but Amar’e refused to talk extension with them. We were one excruciating pick late on that one which is almost as bad as the Browning Nagle/Brett Favre year. Then the Warriors took Draymond in the second round which is turning out to be a monster pick, but they passed on him and went with Ezeli just a few picks earlier. There’s just a ton of noise when it comes to drafting success.

    56. For where he was taken and the year, Hardaway is fine. There were better players available, but he’s not a terrible return with the 24th pick. And if we can up his POINTS! and trade him, then it might turn out to have been an excellent pick after all.

    57. If you don’t have picks, or just have 4 every 3 years, because you trade them away you don’t give yourself a chance to get lucky. Is this lack of progress just bad luck, sucky picks, or, as I surmise, the net result of a perpetually star f’ing owner calling the shots.

    58. @14 – Oh, I agree. Bargs is way funnier and has a cool accent. The blank look on his face is precious. And I’m tired of having 2 J.Smith’s anyway.

      @19 – I agree with most of what you said. What I would add is that the Knicks are turning the ball over way too much. The offense might be improving slightly but there’s room for much improvment. Nobody drives the lane. Some players are turning down good shots and some feel that the second the ball touches their hands it has to go up.

      @32 – Crazy as it sounds, I was looking at ways the Knicks could trade for Linsanity.

      @58 – Hardaway is one of the few trade-able assets the Knicks have. I would look to get him out the door.

    59. plenty of cap room in the offseason

      Yeah, but how much and for who? Can we afford more than 1 max player? Even Melo and Marc Gasol cannot lead the team to the ECF with no supporting players. If you stuck Marc Gasol on our team this year we would still not be in playoff position imo.

    60. Yeah, but how much and for who? Can we afford more than 1 max player?

      –Maybe you dont even need just one max. Pau is making 7mil this year for ex.
      Depending on the draft pick, you can get an above avg crop of players with all the room and retain shumpert with bird rights

    61. Has anyone seen D’Angelo Russell from Ohio State? His turnovers look high but his stats makes him look a lot like James Harden.

    62. Oh good, we get to bring Iman Shumpert back with Bird Rights. We have the “well below average guard with zero offensive ability” role locked down.

      D’Angelo “Barksdale” Russell has been moving up draft boards a bit. I have not seen him play yet but he has been super productive as a freshman, and has been one of the best players in the Big Ten so far. Good size at 6’5″ and has point guard skills, so he would theoretically be a good candidate to be a nice triangle point guard, but Melo doesn’t like the triangle so we should probably forget about Russell. Does Josh Selby have a little brother?

    63. Oh good, we get to bring Iman Shumpert back with Bird Rights. We have the “well below average guard with zero offensive ability” role locked down

      –This was the arguement for Lin. Im just saying keep him just because. Seriously just cause.

    64. Hardaway is what he is. Was he okay value for a 24th pick in a weak draft. Sure. Should we be surprised that he is not “developing”? Nah.

      This is exactly the point I was making. The Knick organization has proven to be more than competent at identifying the correct players, to both target and to subsequently settle for. It is, frankly, what they have been best at over the past 10 years (along with finding useful minimal wage players amongst the scrap heap). Yet, for some reason, they deny themselves the ability to even use that talent to actually build a winning team. The lottery is a gamble, but unlike gambling the more you play it the more you win.

      Phil promised to come in and change the culture. That is the culture that needs to be changed more than anything else. But instead of letting Anthony walk (and getting young assets in return), he outbid the opposition by $50 million. That isn’t culture change. That is typical Scott Layden/Isiah Thomas/James Dolan idiocy.

    65. Actually, the argument for Jeremy Lin was quite a bit different. Because with Lin, we were capped out and had no other viable means to acquire a decent point guard for our “win now” oriented team. So instead we didn’t acquire a decent point guard, and brought back Ray Felton’s fat ass instead, and what do you know, he sucked. Sucked so bad in fact that we pretty much had to give Tyson Chandler away so somebody would take Felton’s lumpy, dead-wood ass off our team, sparing us the pain of basically burning $4M of our precious 2015-2016 salary cap on him.

      In Shumpert’s case, we will have cap space with which to acquire guards who are not as terrible as Iman Shumpert, so it’s a little different. Lin was a gamble worth taking, Shump is not.

    66. Phil promised to come in and change the culture. That is the culture that needs to be changed more than anything else. But instead of letting Anthony walk (and getting young assets in return), he outbid the opposition by $50 million. That isn’t culture change. That is typical Scott Layden/Isiah Thomas/James Dolan idiocy.

      I fully agree with you. Watching Phil Jackson run this team so far is like watching Barack Obama run the country in 2009. You want to believe it’s a new day, but then his first moves are hiring Rahm Emanuel and a bunch of Wall Street bankers. Here comes the new boss, same as the old boss.

    67. @75 yea i guess there are subtle differences with Lin and Shunp. But my main point is that hes a decent enough player to sign to play 15 mins a game in your rotation. With bird rights he wouldn’t affect the ability to attain other players.

    68. Knicks picks
      Galinari #6
      Jordan Hill #8
      Andy Rautins #38
      Fields #39
      Hardaway #24

      Still pains me to this day that Steph Curry went ONE spot in front of us. Leave it to the T-Wolves to eff it up and pick two straight PG’s (Rubio and Flynn) to force GS to pick Curry. Imagine how different it would be, Steph Curry instead of Jordan Hill :(

    69. @75 yea i guess there are subtle differences with Lin and Shunp. But my main point is that hes a decent enough player to sign to play 15 mins a game in your rotation. With bird rights he wouldn’t affect the ability to attain other players.

      I think that that was a lot more than subtle. ;)

      Seriously, though, the issue becomes: is Shump worth giving up the nearly $7 million in cap space his cap hold would take? If they keep Shump’s cap hold, they currently do not even project to have max cap room.

    70. The way Shump is playing, he is lowering his value on a daily basis. I’m sure he’ll attract offers but I doubt they’ll be what he had hoped. He certainly won’t get Lin money.

      I actually think there’s hope for Shumpert. He can score and he can defend. He just needs to play within the system.

    71. Still pains me to this day that Steph Curry went ONE spot in front of us. Leave it to the T-Wolves to eff it up and pick two straight PG’s (Rubio and Flynn) to force GS to pick Curry.

      Would Golden State actually have taken Rubio if Minnesota took Hill? I think Curry wasn’t getting past Golden State no matter what.

    72. How many times a day does Steve Kerr think to himself, I am so happy I am not coaching the Knicks? 1000?

      I think Knickerbloggers really missed out when Kerr went to GS. Here’s his answer to Dennis Rodman’s insinuation that Kerr is basically just sitting on the bench while his players and assistants do most of the work. Asked about it, Kerr said: “Well, that’s actually pretty accurate.”

    73. Imagine how different it would be, Steph Curry instead of Jordan Hill :(

      Yeah, the Rockets would have won last night for sure.

    74. Jason Smith doesn’t suck!!!!!!!!!!
      He’s the best mid range shooter on the team and he plays with a lot of energy.
      What do you expect from a $3 million roster spot?

    75. I will never understand why a pro coach would stand and shout directions to a player while he’s playing, unless he’s doing something catastrophically wrong. Thibadeau is going to lose his voice, guaranteed. He already sounds like he’s been a two-packs-a-day smoker for 80 years.

    76. Here comes the new boss, same as the old boss.

      “Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.”
      You’re sentiment was spot 0n, but when quoting Pete Townshend, I leave no margin of error.

    77. Phil promised to come in and change the culture. That is the culture that needs to be changed more than anything else. But instead of letting Anthony walk (and getting young assets in return), he outbid the opposition by $50 million. That isn’t culture change. That is typical Scott Layden/Isiah Thomas/James Dolan idiocy.

      Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!
      From any perspective, it was a terrible deal, even if you were in the keep Melo camp. Melo’s men gave PJ a very very very expensive business lesson at the expense of us, the fans.

    78. Seriously, though, the issue becomes: is Shump worth giving up the nearly $7 million in cap space his cap hold would take? If they keep Shump’s cap hold, they currently do not even project to have max cap room.

      –from my admittedly confused cap understanding, i thought if we renounnced his rights after the season we could sign him using bird rights.

    79. Man, Tobias Harris is looking good this year. I am pretty sure he will not maintain his 3 pt shooting but it is promising that he is shooting so well. He hasn’t really upped his rate of shooting 3s from last year he is just more accurate. The guy is only 22 and could blossom under the right coaching. He is probably going to stay in Orlando unless a team put some funky stuff in his contract.

    80. –from my admittedly confused cap understanding, i thought if we renounnced his rights after the season we could sign him using bird rights.

      No, renouncing his rights means just that. You renounce his rights, including his Bird Rights.

    81. I always thought he was way too much to give up for a rental of Redick. Redick is great, but you’re Milwaukee, you weren’t going far in the playoffs either way, why give away Harris?

    82. Phil promised to come in and change the culture.

      What’s better than eleven rings?
      Eleven rings and $60 million.

    83. Much as I love him I think Shump is (and should be) a goner. As i understand it we cannot maintain his bird rights without having his cap hold on the books. Truth is, 3 years in and he hasn’t improved one iota. His on-ball D is good except he fouls way too much. He still gets stuck on screens and occasionally ball-watching when he’s off the ball. On offense he’s unbelievably streaky when shooting the ball, still has no idea when or where he should be shooting, still doesn’t really finish well. He shows flashes but hey, even Geno Smith flashes pro bowl potential occasionally (lol).

      The cap space should be reserved for difference makers, and I sorta look at Shump as a just-above-replacement level player at this point. We honestly could probably find someone nearly as good just with the room exception.

      One semi-interesting possibility if we strike out on Gasol next summer – Andrew Bynum is still floating out there and will have had an entire year to work on the health of his knees. He’ll only be 27 next year. He’s obviously sucked the last 2 seasons but when even semi-healthy he was a 0.18-0.2 WS/48 guy.

    84. Long losing streaks, worst start in franchise history, players under performing and alleged looker room discord. Man this really is the season that keeps on giving ha ha.

      I think what has made this first 1/4 of the season so frustrating has been all those close loses. If this team had that killer instinct to just finish off a game, the record looks significantly better. Not saying we would be necessarily above .500, but it would look a damn sight better than 4 and shit. To be honest, as much as this sounds ridiculous, this team can be competitive when they are on. They showed that against Portland, Dallas, Cleveland etc. It’s just these brain farts after half time that kill us. I am in no way saying this is a good team. Good teams get the job done. However, I don’t think they are as bad as the record reflects. They just need to play with some God damn passion and heart!! Fish just needs to play the Willis Reed tunnel game on loop in the locker room ha ha

    85. I always thought he was way too much to give up for a rental of Redick. Redick is great, but you’re Milwaukee, you weren’t going far in the playoffs either way, why give away Harris?

      Orlando was willing to let him go too in the summer. They still might let him go if they do not want to pay him more than Vucevic. He is probably going to get an offer sheet like Parsons. I wouldn’t mind the Knicks taking a chance on him even if they had some of the language Parson’s contract supposedly have.

    86. @80

      He is definetly not getting any money after the red mamba just blows past him. and to think he is the best perimeter defender on the team

    87. Yeah, I’m definitely ready to say goodbye to Shump. I expect his reputation is going to get him paid significantly above his production level and there are plenty of veteran wing players floating around that can approximate his production for a fraction of the cost. The only reason to pay Shump rather than some bargain bin vet would be based on the belief that Shump still has room to improve, and honestly if he hasn’t done it yet it’s hard to put much stock in the idea that it’s just around the corner.

      For a team that’s on the precipice of contention and badly needs a defensive minded wing maybe he could be a good fit, I’m sure lots of teams look at the environment he has played in and think that in a good situation with solid coaching they could bring out the best in him consistently (and his best really is pretty good). He does seems like he likes NY and if he wants to come back at a cut rate contract then that’s fine, but for the Knicks to tie up a significant chunk of the cap on him would be very foolish I think.

    88. Honestly speaking, who on this roster ISN’T someone that we should trade or give up?

      This team is in dire need of an overhaul of players, culture, youth, intelligence, and anything else to throw out.

      We need picks and young and good two way players who give a damn.

    89. Look, it sucks to lose, but I’m perfectly fine with this season as long as we get a top-3 pick, maybe top-5.
      And I think some of you may be missing the point: it’s been documented in detail that Carmelo’s deal doesn’t kill our flexibility (and him taking a bit less would not have afforded as much more flexibility as we thought). After reading that over the summer, I felt somewhat relieved.
      A lot of our arguments here tend to revolve around Melo’s value: statistically, financially and perceptively. As long as the league perceives and values him as a headlining talent, his contract will not be a noose. Melo got his $$, but Phil got Melo to understand that this IS a rebuilding year. Melo, meanwhile, still attracts the casual fans which keeps national interest and tickets sold during the rebuild. While I seriously doubt Melo will be traded, his contract can definitely be moved if worse comes to worst (or if Phil comes up with a really creative and elaborate plan that involves Melo being moved).

      So no one expected the Knicks to be this bad. But this bottoming out is way overdue. #TankMore4Okafor

    90. @100

      You get out of here with your level-headed logic and reasonable arguments! We only like rage, hate, and an unmitigated desire to trounce all such displays of patience into the ground. This organization has been one of the worst in the league, and indeed all 4 of the major sports, for nearly 2 decades. If Phil Jackson hasn’t been able to turn it all around to create the next gen Spurs in 1/4 of a season, well then he’s clearly not the man for the job.

    91. Profiles in contrast.
      Kevin Durant’s HBO show following him during the off season depicted him as a man singularly focused on one thing in life – winning an NBA championship. Basically, every moment of his life was consumed with that one goal. He worked his ass off, getting in shape and improving his game. Nothing else mattered.
      The NY Times recent profile of Carmelo Anthony portrayed him as a man that clearly did not want to be identified as a just a basketball player, but someone of success, beyond basketball. Melo repeatedly expressed his focus on becoming increasingly wealthy, as well as being identified by the public as, not a basketball player, but as financially, successful man/brand/technology investor. He spent a considerable time after games reviewing business plans (ten a day) and meeting startup entrepreneurs seeking capital.

      As long as the NY Knicks are built around Melo, they’re never going very far.

    92. Profiles in contrast.
      Kevin Durant’s HBO show following him during the off season depicted him as a man singularly focused on one thing in life – winning an NBA championship. Basically, every moment of his life was consumed with that one goal. He worked his ass off, getting in shape and improving his game. Nothing else mattered

      So why did he sign a 300 million dollar shoe deal?

    93. I told myself I wasn’t going to be baited by you but here goes. A man who is trying to be successful and wealthyand not end up on espn “broke” is being criticized by a fan. The same fans who would see him on broke and say “how did player x lose 300 million?” You sound corny bro stop hating. I guarebtee Lebron does similar shit if not more business wise. Kevin durant filmed a fucking movie for gods sake.

      You are really corny with this shit man. You don’t like Melo fine but stop acting like he fucked your girl.

    94. KD is a master manipulator of feeble minded fans like you. Remember when everyone was shocked when they found out that his whole torso was covered in tats. Lol keep buying tre media driven humble narrative and only wants to win about these guys. Keep buying the media drivel. The media mind fucks the feeble minded. They craft narratives and you sop it up. They got you hook line n sinker hahaha

    95. @ “er”
      Yes, Durant stops to eat. He calls his mother, too. And he even goes to the bathroom. But, you’re missing the point. His professional life and most of his waking moments are spent striving for a championship.
      Melo, not so much.

      You personally attack other posters, and now me – just to defend Melo. Be better than that.

      I understand you’re his most ardent defender, defending him on every thread. Doesn’t that get tiresome? Take off the fanboy glasses and see the world.

    96. I wasn’t defending Melo. Read what I said. I said u r being mind fucked.

      lol at ardent defender.

      This is defending melo…..4-19 afaints cleveland Aww those were good shots melo is awesome.

      I have never done that. I only respond to mindless shit like what u just posted. I am a melo fanboy because u annoy me.

      Notice no one is ever called a cole fanboy and they openly are. Fuck you bro just fuck u

    97. From Berman:

      ” Five months after swearing his allegiance to New York and signing a five-year, $124 million contract, sources told The Post the All-Star forward would be open to dropping his no-trade clause if team president Phil Jackson strikes a deal with a team Anthony would like to play for.

      Part of Anthony’s deal included the rarely used no-trade provision.

      For now, Anthony has no desire to be traded, but his willingness to consider giving up the no-trade clause shows how frustrated he has become with the Knicks’ historically bad start to the season.”

      Lol.

    98. He has no desire to be traded but is willing to waive his no-trade clause to a team he likes
      Really? Wow, is that how the no trade clause works. I guess you learn something old each day.

    99. twitter is going crazy about this but one wonders whether this is actually for real. Frank Isola basically shot it down as pure fiction and he’s probably the most reliable of the current beat writers, whereas Berman is sort of a mouthpiece for the Knicks and whatever agenda they have for the day. Even if the thought has crossed Melo’s mind, I think it’s most likely that this is some weird Zen shit from Phil.

      That said, I wouldn’t be against selling Melo for Pau Gasol, Mirotic, and other filler. It’s doable, and maybe Chicago would consider it since they’re not exactly setting the world on fire right now.

    100. Journalist to Melo henchman…”Would melo be willing to waive trade clause if Phil came to him with a good situation?”

      Henchman to journalist….”Yea, i mean if its something that could get him to Chicago in a good situation or someting like that, But melo would prefer NY because blah blaha bhals

      journalist headline next day “Melo Open to trade”

      Lol if i was an athlete id Barry Bonds reporters. They suck especially here in NY with the “sources”

      The headline doesnt even say wants to be traded, it says open to waive trade clause . Like ok. Thanks i guess.Athletes shy away from ny for stuff like this i believe.

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