Knicks Morning News (2014.11.26)

  • [New York Daily News] J.R. Smith links ‘Black Friday’ to slavery on Instagram (Wed, 26 Nov 2014 06:46:57 GMT)

    Don’t expect J.R. Smith to master something as complicated as a triangle offense when he can’t even grasp basic American history.

  • [New York Daily News] Carmelo doubtful vs. Mavericks, could miss extended time (Wed, 26 Nov 2014 06:36:14 GMT)

    Carmelo Anthony, as expected, is listed as doubtful for Wednesday night’s game in Dallas after back spasms forced him out of Monday night’s 91-86 loss to the Rockets.

  • [New York Daily News] Isola: Knicks have little to gain from Carmelo Anthony pain (Wed, 26 Nov 2014 04:55:18 GMT)

    Dare we say that Carmelo Anthony, awkward gait and pained expression, seemed to replicating the walking motion of his boss, Phil Jackson.

  • [New York Post] Chandler has had his Phil of being blamed for Knicks’ issues (Wed, 26 Nov 2014 00:04:58 -0500)

    DALLAS — There is one player Phil Jackson motivated this season. Too bad he's not a Knick. Mavericks center Tyson Chandler is back playing like the champion he became in…

  • [New York Times] Michele Roberts, New N.B.A. Players Union Leader, Isn’t Afraid to Throw Elbows (Wed, 26 Nov 2014 11:00:02 GMT)

    Michele Roberts, the new leader of the N.B.A. players union, has forcefully questioned the league’s pay model, labeled its owners as replaceable and directly criticized Commissioner Adam Silver.

  • [New York Times] N.B.A. Roundup: Curry’s 40 Points Lift Warriors to Sixth Straight Win (Wed, 26 Nov 2014 05:11:17 GMT)

    “You just feel a rhythm,” said Stephen Curry, who was 8 for 24 in his previous two games but led Golden State past Miami.

  • [New York Times] Lawson Has 20 Points, Nuggets Beat Bulls 114-109 (Wed, 26 Nov 2014 04:55:16 GMT)

    Ty Lawson scored 20 points, including a key jumper in the waning seconds, and the Denver Nuggets beat the Chicago Bulls 114-109 on Tuesday night for their fifth straight win.

  • [New York Times] Curry Powers Warriors Past Heat 114-97 (Wed, 26 Nov 2014 04:43:10 GMT)

    So much for Stephen Curry’s mini-shooting slump.

  • [New York Times] Cousins, Kings Beat Pelicans 99-89 (Wed, 26 Nov 2014 04:04:06 GMT)

    DeMarcus Cousins had 22 points, 12 rebounds, five assists and three steals, leading the Sacramento Kings to a 99-89 victory over the New Orleans Pelicans on Tuesday night.

  • [New York Times] Knight Helps Bucks Beat Pistons 98-86 (Wed, 26 Nov 2014 03:52:03 GMT)

    Brandon Knight had 20 points and eight assists to lead the Milwaukee Bucks to a 98-86 victory over the Detroit Pistons on Tuesday night.

  • [New York Times] With Carmelo Anthony’s Back Ailing, Knicks’ Load Just Got Heavier (Wed, 26 Nov 2014 03:39:52 GMT)

    As Anthony recuperated after experiencing what the team described as back spasms, the rest of the Knicks were left to wonder how quickly he could return.

  • [New York Times] Hawks Top Wizards 106-102 for 6th Win in 8 (Wed, 26 Nov 2014 02:58:15 GMT)

    Hawks reserves Mike Scott and Shelvin Mack led a fourth-quarter surge on a night when starters were struggling, and Atlanta held to beat the Washington Wizards 106-102 Tuesday.

  • [New York Times] Keeping Score: Negative Numbers Piling Up for the 76ers (Wed, 26 Nov 2014 01:47:05 GMT)

    Philadelphia’s loss to the Portland Trail Blazers on Monday was the team’s 14th straight — one loss short of the franchise record for consecutive defeats to start a season.

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    33 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2014.11.26)”

    1. If the Knicks are smart they’ll trade Melo asap. Every game they win is another step down the lotto and they won’t be relevant regardless for the next few seasons which is a complete waste of his peak and the max money they’re paying him. Every day he gets older is just his trade value going further into da tank.

      Not that I expect the Knicks to do the smart thing. Gotta chase that magical 40 wins/ first round exit plateau after all.

    2. I would be open to Melo trades, but only if the right ones present themselves (a semi-contender with a crazy owner or dumb GM could work here; it just doesn’t seem to be one out there, plus Melo has a no-trade clause – which was the worst thing they put in the contract). So, I hope they just shut him off for the season, so his mileage won’t keep on going and we can lose like there’s no tomorrow (but then again, get rid of Jose too if that’s the plan and give the keys of the offense to JR; as much as I like Calderon, he’s useless here, just like Dalembert).

      Giving JR full control would ensure we lose more and, maybe, would help showcase him for some team desperate for scoring punch. Full disclosure: I hate this plan, but at least it would give me a reason to watch this dreadfully boring season.

    3. Also, if we are bored and kinda down (and I am, for sure), can you imagine how it must be to root for the Sixers this year? I know they’re buying hope there, but why should someone watch that awful team?

    4. One damn draft pick away from Steph Curry, I can’t get that out of my mind every time I watch him put up absurd numbers like 8-11 from 3 pt. range.

    5. Don’t worry d-mar, we would have shipped him for Melo. So, no Curry for us in any alternate universe where Dolan is the owner of the Knicks.

    6. Not that I would be against trading Melo for the right price, but are things really doomed to be hopeless next year?

      Let’s say the Knicks really do tank (playing Wear in crunch time vs. the Rockets and random rotations all the time makes it seem plausible). Even if they can’t get Gasol/Love what if they add a DeAndre Jordan, Jimmy Butler, or Al Jefferson level player? Combine that with the top 5 pick and resigning Shump and you could have a Calderon/Shump/Melo/Jefferson/Towns starting 5 with MLE, Prigioni, Early, and THJ. Isn’t that a competitive team? That may seem like a lot of ifs but all it really takes is being bad to get a high pick. They’ll have enough cap space to easily get one of those guys and Shump is restricted so he’s back if they really want him.

      I think it’d also be prudent to hope JR and Amare keep playing well. Maybe you can pawn off Amare for a late first-rounder at the deadline. And if JR plays well he opts out, which clears enough to definitely offer the max or allow for two mid-level contracts.

    7. God forbid a Calderon/Melo/Jefferson trio on defense.

      Jokes aside, I don’t think we’re saying (yet) next year things are gonna be hopeless. I think we’re saying that this season has already worn out our attention (if not our patience, which we have plenty of). Also, we’re saying that it’s kinda strange to rebuild – which is what we’re doing, and what we should have known was the right thing to do this year, given Amar’e and Bargs expirings – by resigning Melo to a quasi-max contract and forcing him to play with very flawed teammates. So, trading Melo would put us in a possibly better position in two years, unless, again, we rest Melo all season long and toss ourselves head first to an under 20 wins campaign. But then again, what was the point in signing Melo to that contract if you planned on wasting one of the last three years of his near-prime?

      I guess that’s the line of reasoning. But then again, Melo has a no-trade clause, and the only destination where he could really want to go in the next two years has got to be LA, Clippers side, which makes for pretty blah trades.

    8. Chandler goes to Dallas, magically they become an elite offensive team, and some of y’all think we can recreate 2012 with any old big man setting picks.

      Tyson was at fault for quitting well before the end of season, but I think it can’t be stressed enough how much Woodson was to blame about it. It’s like Woodson was actively sabotaging our 2013-14 Knicks.

      “But did Beno have to throw him the ball?” – I burst into laughter every time I read this quote.

    9. Chandler doesn’t get a pass for that. If he hadn’t been such a dog we would have gotten a lot more for him. So fuck him, too.

    10. Did Tyson have to dunk the ball off his own head and back through the rim, though? You have to look at that.

      Also, that grantland article is laughably stupid. Tyson only dunks. He doesn’t shoot a lot. The idea that he could significantly improve an offense insults both my eyeballs and my gut.

    11. @10

      Absolutely. I’m not giving him a free pass. But I wonder if the ramifications of Woody’s ineptitude are so huge, we can’t even begin to properly evaluate them.


      I don’t get why nobody’s biting. That idea also insults my pet dog, go figure.

    12. Chandler goes to Dallas, magically they become an elite offensive team, and some of y’all think we can recreate 2012 with any old big man setting picks.

      Magically? Dallas was already the 3rd best offensive team last year and turned Shawn Marion and Dalembert into Chandler Parsons & Tyson Chandler, one with cap space and the other at the cost of Calderon, but they had a surplus of PGs, anyway.

      I don’t see anything magical about it and I’d argue they would be best in the league even if they had not traded with us.

    13. Perhaps it is more magical that in 2013 Dallas signed the inefficient chucker of Monta Ellis and went from 14th to 3rd in the league in offensive efficiency.

    14. Combine that with the top 5 pick and resigning Shump and you could have a Calderon/Shump/Melo/Jefferson/Towns starting 5 with MLE, Prigioni, Early, and THJ. Isn’t that a competitive team?

      Okay, just as a thought exercise lets tackle this specific scenario: Is it a competitive team? Sure, I think so. Is it a contender? Eh, you have to really squint your eyes to see that I think. That team looks shallow – Prigioni is no spring chicken, neither Early nor THJ has really shown themselves to be even an average rotation player at this point. They don’t look like they would guard anyone either – Jefferson guarding 4s would be a serious problem, we know Melo doesn’t do as well when asked to chase around perimeter guys (and I doubt this is going to improve as he ages and these nagging injuries become a more regular occurrence), Calderon is a sieve, and relying on a rookie center as your anchor is always an issue. Of course we would have opportunities to further improve the roster moving forward, but that team looks like a mid-level playoff team next year that is going to be a decaying asset due to the age of both Melo and Jefferson going forward (unless lottery pick X turns out to be a superstar).

      So in a pretty good scenario where we actually do reasonably well in FA we look like a fringe contender (debateably) next year, and presumably some decay after that. To me, that in a nutshell is the case for trading Melo. If I try to envision the range of outcomes from where we stand today if we try to move forward as a contender in the Melo era it seems like even if about 85% of stuff goes our way from here on out we end up being halfway decent for maybe a couple seasons and then sliding downwards with a weird again misshapen roster again.

    15. Yeah, being against re-signing Melo to the mega max was never really a shot at re-signing Melo himself, but just how it was designed, where the team was planning on punting the first year of a mega-max extension for a 30-year-old player. That’s moronic. And then things have to break just right for them to be competitive in year two of his mega-max contract. More realistically, the next time they might be good is year three when he’s 32. That’s just shitty planning.

    16. @16 and 17.

      No arguments there. I’m just moving past the Melo-max at this point and saying, what is the best way for the Knicks to proceed from here?

      If you’re not trying to contend next year I think you have to trade Shump at the deadline. He is obviously valuable for a playoff run, has a low cap figure so is easily moveable, and his restricted free agency status moves with him so he has value after this year too right? It gives a contender that’s over the cap another piece they can re-sign. I just don’t see the point of keeping him, as he won’t be a discount (value relative to his contract).

      If you can move Melo, Shump, and Amare and get at least 3 young assets, either draft picks or rookies, and add another top 5 pick in the draft next year, that’s a pretty good start on a rebuild. Is a 69 year-old Phil going to implement this strategy? I would doubt it, hence the hope that the team can still be competitive (if not a realistic champion) in year 2 of Melo-max.

    17. I watched a good portion of the W-Chester Knicks last night. Does anyone else think that a really good comp for Thanasis is M Kidd-Gilchrist? Check Their combine measurements, times etc. are really similar.

    18. Based on the Knicks drafting history, having more picks may or may not improve the team, it is far from a sure thing. Trading all of those guys sounds ok IF you can get something approaching equal value back, which is an issue. Otherwise it may be better to keep Shump and Melo at least. Also, it is highly unlikely the Zen Master goes for the total rebuild.

    19. The Knicks aren’t going to build a contender next summer no matter what they do. They need to add pieces that will get this team contending for a division title and 50 wins, which I think is possible. Then if the cap jumps as it should in 2016 they’ll have room for another max guy and what hopefully is a promising nucleus to sell to free agents. Tanking this year would obviously help us a lot.

      Perhaps it is more magical that in 2013 Dallas signed the inefficient chucker of Monta Ellis and went from 14th to 3rd in the league in offensive efficiency.

      Interesting question.

    20. Perhaps it is more magical that in 2013 Dallas signed the inefficient chucker of Monta Ellis and went from 14th to 3rd in the league in offensive efficiency.

      Interesting question.

      The reason for this is that good team work makes players better. We, and everyone else, sort out stats by player; who scored how many points, what was the true shooting percentage of a player, etc. So whenever team work makes players better it shows up in the stats as improvement in the players and we say something to the effect of “look how the players improved”. But actually it’s because of bette team play. Rick Carlisle is a very good coach and he gets good results out of his players, because they play as a team. Woodson was a good coach one year, and lost the team the next year. The Knicks will get better when they start playing more as a team. I think they already are playing more as a team, but so far it’s only as compared to last year. They might make progress in the next few weeks, but their upcoming tough schedule is likely to obscure their progress as a team. I think if we’re patient we might see some winning Knicks basketball during their next stretch of relatively easy teams. At least I hope so.

    21. interesting question

      They added Calderon, got a full, healthy season of dirk, and a few other relatively minor moves. Ellis was about league average. He’s not an inefficient chucker. He’s just not an efficient chucker. Monta’s okay, but he’s far down the list of reasons that offense is great.

    22. I agree that the Knicks’ best bet to have a good team in, say, four years is to trade Melo and Shump this season. However, that also more or less locks in that they’ll have a shitty team next season and likely a bad team in two years.

      Right now, depending on if JR can be dealt, there’s at least a real chance that this team could be decent next season and legitimately good in two years (by signing Gasol and re-signing Shump and then adding one more great player when the cap goes up in 2016).

      In four years, Melo and Gasol will likely no longer be top players and the Knicks likely won’t be a contender, but they’ll have Year 3 and 4 of Melo’s contract where they might actually be a legit contender.

      I don’t think it is smart to sign a guy to a mega-max five-year extension for a possible two-year window of contention, but at least it does give them a shot at that two-year window soon.

      A complete rebuild puts them into better position eventually but they’ll suck longer and I can see why Jackson doesn’t want that (even if I would go another direction).

    23. @24 – I’m agreeing with your logic but I wouldn’t trade Melo. The draft is a crap-shoot. Bargs was an overall #1. So were Anthony Bennett, Kwame Brown, Greg Oden and Michael Olowokandi. Free Agents are more of a known factor and I would rather win sooner than later.

    24. I am concerned that my Tyson Chandler revenge fantasy game may be in jeopardy this evening barring a technical forfeit. I hereby declare that Tyson’s comeuppance be judged by the spread between our point differential and the Pacer/Spurs game. If Vegas thinks that without Melo we are a bigger underdog in Dallas than Indiana is without its entire team (George, Hibbert, West, Hill) in San Antonio, I don’t see why we need to retain any pride on our personal scoreboards.

    25. @GoNyGoNYGo

      That’s the best thing about the draft. It’s the only way to get upside. When you’re a bad team, you need to give yourself an opportunity to get lucky. Playing conservatively and holding onto the assets whose ceilings you know already aren’t high enough to get you to the promised land is just flat dumb.

      You have two options as the Knicks:

      1) Rule yourself 99.9% out of winning a title in the next 8 years or so but guarantee you will win at least 25 games each season.

      2) Give yourself maybe a 5% chance at a title by going young.

      The lottery is basically like going to the casino with a casino gift card. You might walk away with nothing, but then you spent nothing to get here either.

      And the best part is there are times when those draft picks can get you true stars. No one thought Lebron would leave Miami, but he did, and he went to Cleveland because they had the assets to make a move for Kevin Love. Without Wiggins, Lebron never goes to Cleveland.

      If the Knicks get a top 2 pick this coming draft, it would instantly become their most valuable asset.

    26. Cuban is such a massive douche, yet some how likable? I dunno but having a fan as an owner some one who genuinely cares about bball is a great thing.

    27. Jr is so bad


      He’s a dynamic scorer off the bench! A former sixth man of the year! He’s got almost unlimited shooting range!

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