Knicks Morning News (2014.11.19)

  • [ESPN.com – New York Knicks] Bombs away? Knicks' D plan questionable (Wed, 19 Nov 2014 00:07:57 EDT)

    Much of the early-season conversation surrounding the New York Knicks has been about the triangle offense. But offense wasn’t the issue on Tuesday night. The Knicks’ defense — or lack thereof — led to their loss against the Milwaukee Bucks. And it continued an alarming trend for this team. The Knicks entered play Tuesday ranked with the worst perimeter defense in the NBA, allowing opponents to hit 42 percent of their 3-pointers. They didn’t do anything to improve that number on Tuesday night.

  • [New York Newsday] Trailing by 26, Knicks rally late but fall to Bucks (Wed, 19 Nov 2014 00:24:14 EST)

    One play after Brandon Knight darted past the Knicks for an uncontested layup, the Bucks had a five-shot possession. The Knicks' defense was missing in action for most of the night.

  • [New York Newsday] Carmelo Anthony says left knee has been troublesome (Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:03:34 EST)

    Knicks second-round pick Cleanthony Early will have surgery to remove a loose body from his right knee this week.

  • [New York Daily News] Knicks mount huge fourth-quarter comeback but Bucks hold on (Wed, 19 Nov 2014 07:18:22 GMT)

    The last two men to jump directly from their NBA playing careers into head-coaching roles sat on opposite benches, sweating out a crazy finish they recently might have helped decide on the court.

  • [New York Daily News] Knicks Insider: Carmelo’s sore knee takes another lump (Wed, 19 Nov 2014 06:22:04 GMT)

    Carmelo Anthony laid on a training table in the visiting locker room for several minutes, his left knee being iced down following the Knicks’ failed comeback bid in a 117-113 loss Tuesday to the Bucks.

  • [New York Post] Carmelo Anthony: My left knee has been hurting since Game 2 (Wed, 19 Nov 2014 02:53:46 -0500)

    MILWAUKEE — Carmelo Anthony was flat on his back on the trainer's table after the 117-113 loss to the Bucks Tuesday — his left knee being rubbed with ice by…

  • [New York Post] Andre Barrett happy to be playing basketball at home again (Wed, 19 Nov 2014 00:56:23 -0500)

    Andre Barrett knew the age question was coming, because it always does when you're a 32-year-old basketball nomad. And the Westchester Knicks point guard understood why it was asked. But…

  • [New York Times] IOC Suggests More Venues Outside Tokyo for 2020 Games (Wed, 19 Nov 2014 07:47:57 GMT)

    International Olympic Committee (IOC) Vice President John Coates has urged Tokyo to consider moving more events to venues outside the capital, including one hundreds of kilometres away, in a bid to rein in spending for the 2020 Summer Games.

  • [New York Times] Davis Powers Pelicans Past Kings 106-100 (Wed, 19 Nov 2014 05:54:02 GMT)

    Anthony Davis had 28 points and nine rebound to help the New Orleans Pelicans beat the Sacramento Kings 106-100 on Tuesday night.

  • [New York Times] Sports Briefing | Pro Basketball: Lakers Earn Second Victory (Wed, 19 Nov 2014 05:40:11 GMT)

    Kobe Bryant scored 28 points, and the Los Angeles Lakers won for only the second time this season, beating the host Atlanta Hawks, 114-109.

  • [New York Times] Bucks, Young and Rebuilding, Look to Jabari Parker to Lead the Way Back (Wed, 19 Nov 2014 05:28:49 GMT)

    Parker, the second pick in June’s draft, landed in Milwaukee as both a celebrity and a savior, given the task of helping to revive a moribund franchise.

  • [New York Times] Jason Kidd, About to Face Nets, Again Sheds Little Light on His Departure (Wed, 19 Nov 2014 05:24:07 GMT)

    Kidd, who left the Nets during the off-season, had the Bucks playing .500 ball ahead of Tuesday’s game against the Knicks.

  • [New York Times] Burks Leads Jazz Past Thunder 98-81 (Wed, 19 Nov 2014 04:54:10 GMT)

    Alec Burks had 20 points and a career-high 14 rebounds, and the Utah Jazz beat the reeling Oklahoma City Thunder 98-81 on Tuesday night.

  • [New York Times] Bucks 117, Knicks 113: Knicks Take Another Giant Step Backward (Wed, 19 Nov 2014 04:15:25 GMT)

    The Knicks turned in another feeble performance on defense and had a late comeback fall short as their teetering season took another step toward irrelevance.

  • [New York Times] Bucks Hold Off Knicks 117-113 to Climb Above .500 (Wed, 19 Nov 2014 03:57:05 GMT)

    Ersan Ilyasova had 20 points, and the rebuilding Milwaukee Bucks climbed above .500 for the first time in more than a year by fending off the New York Knicks for a 117-113 victory Tuesday night.

  • [New York Times] Kobe Bryant Leads Struggling Lakers Past Hawks (Wed, 19 Nov 2014 03:18:09 GMT)

    Bryant scored 28 points and Los Angeles won for only the second time this season, beating Atlanta, 114-109.

  • Liked it? Take a second to support Mike Kurylo on Patreon!

    Mike Kurylo

    Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

    58 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2014.11.19)”

    1. I’m not sure why, but I’m kinda glad Jason Kidd goes back to Brooklyn with a better record than the Nets. He’s probably not a good human being, but he is a fun coach (as in, tries funny things that sometimes work – the driving Antetokoumpo is something nobody else, save possibly Pop, would have tried, and it’s great, even when the Freak collects dozens of turnovers), while the Prokhorov Nets have almost always been as unwatchable as any basketball team on earth, save for some minutes of the last season.

    2. er November 18, 2014 at 5:18 pm

      That’s like replacing LeBron with Durant and saying “the offense didn’t suffer, so LeBron must not have been that good”

      I think this comparison is hilarious. LBJ and KD vs Cope and Tyson hahaha. Advanced Stats.

      Yo, er, I was not comparing Cope & Tyson to LBJ and KD.

      If you can’t figure out what I was saying there, well, I think it’s pretty clear so I’m not going to spell it out.

    3. Does anyone know what happened with Kirilenko? He is not playing for Brooklyn, and he would fit the trade exception we have from Raymond Felton (Saving Brooklyn quite a few million). He used to be a good defender. Maybe we could use him instead of Quincy Acy/Jason Smith?

    4. Maybe we could use him instead of Quincy Acy/Jason Smith?

      Don’t worry man, as soon as Bargs is healthy he’ll be the one who plays instead of Acy/Smith.

    5. Damn, man.

      I can’t even talk about what was on that thread about Chandler yesterday. Glad I wasn’t at a computer for that.

      Used to be the argument on here was about whether or not Chandler or Melo was the more valuable offensive player. That was a good argument, with strong and valid opinions on both sides.

      Now we’re arguing about whether or not Chandler was even a elite contributor on offense??? WTF.

      I feel like Bunk telling Omar “How far we done fell??”

    6. In better news…

      Our draft pick is going to be goooooood!!!! I might have to start watching college basketball for the first time since the last time I knew we were going to have a lottery pick (that was the year Derrick Rose was at Memphis).

    7. Yo, er, I was not comparing Cope & Tyson to LBJ and KD.

      If you can’t figure out what I was saying there, well, I think it’s pretty clear so I’m not going to spell it out.

      I know what you were saying i just said it was hilarious cuz it was to me. But you did compare them…..not sure if you know what the word means.

    8. but you did compare them…not sure if you know what the word means.

      He used a similie, which is a literary device that compares two different things to make a description of the subject more vivid. It is never intended to be taken literally.

      For example, when Steinbeck writes: “The full green hills are round and soft as breasts” he isn’t saying that the ground is as soft as a chick’s boobs. He’s just saving himself 500 words describing how soft the ground was by using a reference that everybody will understand.

      (And just in case this still isn’t clear, here’s the breakdown: Chandler/Copeland = the green hills; LBJ/Durant = the breasts)

    9. I tried to get a look at this Okafor kid last night and then remembered Dickie V calls duke games on espn. Is there a single person in America who enjoys listening to that dude?

    10. Positives: The offense seems to be starting to tick in a pretty meaningful way. The overwhelming majority of the possessions last night involved multiple passes with the ball switching sides of the floor and a dedication to getting an open look (there’s still the issue that too many of those open looks we’re generating are 17 footers for Travis Wear and his ilk, but baby steps). That’s a significant step in the right direction. This team can still be very good offensively particularly when Calderon gets back.

      This new and improved Shump is looking like a real thing. He’s still getting plaudits for his defense that seem to be primarily based on a single quarter against the Bulls his rookie season as far as I can tell, but offensively he’s looking extremely solid. Knocking down 3s, finishing at the hoop, making crisp passes, and hitting the boards hard. Great stuff that of course is going to put the Knicks in quite a bind this offseason because Knicks.

      Negatives: The defense. Oh, that defense. Similar to last year we don’t seem to be able to take away even a single thing from our opponents. Fish is making noise about how we’re sagging off the 3-point line to protect the paint, and as expected we’re getting murdered from 3, except the punchline is that we also still can’t protect the hoop except by resorting to constant fouls. Not a good look. And then cleaning the glass when we did get stops was also atrocious. Just bad all around.

    11. “That’s like replacing LeBron with Durant and saying “the offense didn’t suffer, so LeBron must not have been that good”
      Except that replacing LeBron with Durant is not the slightest bit like replacing Chandler with Copeland. Durant can do a lot of the same things that LeBron can do, whereas Copeland can do exactly zero of the things that Chandler can do, and vice versa. If all of the things that Chandler did, like setting great picks, rolling to the rim, dunking alley oops, getting offensive rebounds and putbacks, almost never getting the ball more than 2 feet from the rim, etc. were absolutely critical to the team’s offensive success, then how come the offense didn’t suffer one iota when he was replaced by a guy who never set picks, never rolled to the rim, got about half an offensive rebound a game, usually got the ball at least 20 feet from the rim, etc., etc.? Note — I am NOT saying that Chandler wasn’t a valuable asset on offense but, rather, that he was not as critical to the team’s offensive success as many on this site are arguing that he was.

    12. He used a similie, which is a literary device that compares two different things to make a description of the subject more vivid. It is never intended to be taken literally.

      I thought of similie after ….thats what i meant haha. But like i said i didnt take it literally i just thought it was funny. I dont think he was arguing differences however….wasnt he arguing similarities?

      Replacing Chandler with Copeland is like replacing KD with Lebron? What is different? Idk maybe im Nuts.

    13. Watching the game last night it’s obvious we badly need to get a good 2-way center next year if we’re going anywhere. Looking over the 2015 free agent crop it actually seems like there are more options than just Marc Gasol:

      Brooke Lopez, Deandre Jordan, Roy Hibbert (actually I have no idea if this guy is still good or not, haven’t watched a Pacers game since he blocked Melo 2 years back in the playoffs) all might be unrestricted FAs (player options depending). And Tyson Chandler (lol). And then guys like Robin Lopez and Asik are available as back up options.

      Of course that’s pretty frustrating given that we actually had a good 2 way center before this year (Tyson).

    14. “Knicks second-round pick Cleanthony Early will have surgery to remove a loose body from his right knee this week.”

      So that’s where Calderon has been…

    15. The thing that drives me absolutely nuts (and I’m sure Fisher also) is seeing Hardaway or JR standing by themselves halfway between the paint and the 3 point line. If you’re going to sag and try to help on someone driving to the hoop, then do that (not that it’s a good idea either) OR JUST STAY WITH THE GUY CAMPED OUT BEHIND THE 3 POINT LINE!

      Why is that such a difficult concept? It really isn’t about on the ball defense for those 2, they’re not the greatest at it, but they’re not terrible either. Just mind boggling.

    16. I watched part of the game last night. It looked liked they were doing the same triangle types things they did earlier in the season, but executing them significantly faster. I hope they can keep it up. Although there is likely to be some adjustment when Calderon comes back. It’s hard to believe he’ll be that quick to do triangle stuff the first time he plays it in a meaningful game.

    17. Oi vey.

      Johnno, you don’t have to produce the same exact way to be equally productive.

      Chandler produced at an elite level that entire year. When he got hurt, Copeland produced at an elite level for a short stretch. They did it in different ways, but they still did it.

      Anyway…we’re sucking without openly tanking, so that’s good.

    18. Used to be the argument on here was about whether or not Chandler or Melo was the more valuable offensive player. That was a good argument, with strong and valid opinions on both sides.

      No it was the dumbest argument since I’ve been reading this board. The offense did not miss a beat when KMart replaced Chandler. When Melo was injured, we were terrible. If we played that same offense using Dalembert, our results would be similar to TC in that role.

    19. Can we just talk about Anthony Davis for the rest of the week?

      http://www.boxscoregeeks.com/players/1287-anthony-davis

      He’s averaging 22 FGA/48 with only 1.3 TO/48. 10 turnovers, 23 steals and 39 blocks in 367 minutes.

      yeah man – that dude is ridiculous. If he played on a team with actual non-ball-hogging guards…

      on the other hand – Calderon can’t come back soon enough. Shane Larkin is not an NBA guard right now. He has just been putrid.

      Pablo though? Love that guy. Dude is shooting 64% from 2 point range, 48% from 3 point range for a tidy TS of 70, and has actually nudged his usage rate up to 12.4 – which is basically Tyson Chandler territory.

    20. Kentucky have any studs I should be watching?

      I have my eye on Dakari Johnson and Towns. Maybe Andrew Harrison

    21. on the other hand – Calderon can’t come back soon enough. Shane Larkin is not an NBA guard right now. He has just been putrid.

      He really is sort of a square peg in a round hole right now. But yeah, Pablo man, wow!

    22. @14 Johnno – seems like it’s you and me against the world. Maybe we just have to admit that Tyson Chandler is an offensive juggernaut to not get laughed at. Since I’m not about to do that, I’ll buy some earplugs.

    23. “Tyson Chandler’s a really good offensive player”

      “LOL you said Tyson was the best offensive player! ”

      “No he didn’t”

      “OMG just because I don’t think Tyson is a super awesome top 3 offensive juggernaut of all time you think I’m dumb. ”

      And, repeat.

    24. Yup Pablo is amazing. Our problem this year is the same as it was last year. We should play a pg-Pablo-Shump-Melo-Cole/Chandler lineup, but we don’t.

    25. I posted this last night but it’s worth reposting…and admitting that Chandler is a better player than Dalembert. My point would be that their career numbers are scary similar.

      Dalembert vs Tyson

      I would like one of you stat-heads to explain these numbers to me. It seems like they’re virtual clones with Dalembert just playing fewer minutes per game.

    26. Regarding Chandler- I just object to the word elite. He’s an elite roll man and an excellent offensive rebounder but NOT an elite offensive player. Very good/valuable but not elite. His career usage % is 13.8 and his career TOV % is 17.7 (and his usage rate drops to 11 in the playoffs)- tough to call him elite with those numbers regardless of his efficiency. I’d also argue that that turnover number is even worse than it looks as it doesn’t include all of the turnovers by guards trying to get him the ball in traffic. I think he was clearly the best player on the team in his first year here when he was playing prime KG-level defense. I think Melo was better in each of the last two years (though I think you could make a strong case for Chandler two years ago) but I just can’t call him an elite offensive player.

    27. [Shump’s] still getting plaudits for his defense that seem to be primarily based on a single quarter against the Bulls his rookie season as far as I can tell.

      Did you watch the fourth quarter last night? When they went at Shump Milwaukee could hardly get a shot up- just a ton of deflections and forced turnovers. In his rookie season his turnovers forced numbers (via synergy which I guess you can’t access anymore) were off the charts. After the ACL I don’t think he was anyway near that level again until late last year. He still loses focus at times (and isn’t helped by playing with a terrible defensive front court) but when he’s locked in he’s really, really good.

    28. I posted this last night but it’s worth reposting…and admitting that Chandler is a better player than Dalembert. My point would be that their career numbers are scary similar.

      Tyson has a significantly higher TS% than Dalembert. He hits a higher percentage of his shots from the field (which may be related to his inability to take and miss shitty jump shots like Dalembert) and he generates FTA on about twice as many shots. Also, for whatever reason, he can play more minutes.

    29. Yeah, that’s a substantial difference. That’s a 61 point difference, which is about the difference between the #1 offense in the league (GSW at .605) and the #16 and #17 teams (SAC and HOU at .540).

    30. I noted that Tyson averaged almost twice as many assists per game as Dalembert (0.8 – 0.5) despite what the eye test may say about Dalembert being a better passer. Dalembert is a better shot blocker. The eyes and stats agree on at least that.

    31. Also, this season Dalembert has a 414 TS% and Tyson’s is 730. So I guess what I’m saying is Calderon needs to get healthy soon.

    32. I’d also argue that that turnover number is even worse than it looks as it doesn’t include all of the turnovers by guards trying to get him the ball in traffic.

      Wait, you want to penalize Chandler for fat fucking felton being unable to make a pocket pass? How about the number of turnovers Chandler prevented by being able to leap high enough to catch the shitty lobs that fucker threw him?

      Let’s just trust the turnover number and not try to guess what it is or isn’t reflecting.

    33. It seems like they’re virtual clones with Dalembert just playing fewer minutes per game.

      Dalembert and Chandler were pretty similar their first 5 years. Then Chandler went to a completely different level. In that nine year span their TS% discrepancy is even more stark: Chandler .655 and Dalembert .538

      It’s easy to credit Chris Paul with that bump. It’s harder to credit Ray Felton. Yet both, apparently, made Chandler equally efficient, while Dalmebert hasn’t been anywhere near as productive despite playing with high profile guards like Andre Miller, Kyle Lowry, Goran Dragic, and Allen Iverson.

      Did Paul make Chandler look great, or did Chandler make Paul look great? Those lobs don’t dunk themselves, and without somebody to convert them they’re not much of a weapon in and of themselves. (And if it is that easy for 7 footers to dunk lobs and tip in misses, why is it so much harder for Dalembert and almost every other tall guy in the league to do it?)

    34. Wait, you want to penalize Chandler for fat fucking felton being unable to make a pocket pass? How about the number of turnovers Chandler prevented by being able to leap high enough to catch the shitty lobs that fucker threw him?

      Let’s just trust the turnover number and not try to guess what it is or isn’t reflecting.

      Fat fucking Felton was actually pretty f’ing good getting into the lane and making pocket passes- it sure as hell wasn’t J Kidd running those sets. What he wasn’t good at was hitting mid-range jumpers when teams inevitably slumped off of him and sagged in on Chandler- something that might have been alleviated a bit if Chandler could’ve pick & popped every once in awhile. My point is that high pnrs are going to generate more turnovers for the guards as opposed to just dumping the ball into the mid-post and given that a decent percentage of Chandler’s shots came out of those sets I think that’s something you have to factor in when weighing whether a guy whose career turnover rate is a good deal higher than his usage is an elite offensive player or not.

    35. Nice little article on big man renaissance in college:

      http://grantland.com/the-triangle/are-you-ready-for-the-big-man-renaissance/

      I had a moment of optimism reading this. Maybe one of these guys is the next Anthony Davis and we get him!!

      Then I had a terrible thought. What if one of those guys is the next Anthony Davis and we trade him for a more NBA-ready player because that’s what Melo wants and we’re so far up his ass that we’ll do anything for him? Isn’t that exactly what would happen?

      That’s so Knicks, right? Cleveland gets to trade Andrew Wiggins for Kevin Love to attract LeBron James. We’d end up trading the next Anthony Davis for a 30 year old Dwight Howard to appease Carmelo Anthony.

      I can’t even daydream without imaging how it would end up horribly.

    36. My point is that high pnrs are going to generate more turnovers for the guards as opposed to just dumping the ball into the mid-post and given that a decent percentage of Chandler’s shots came out of those sets I think that’s something you have to factor in when weighing whether a guy whose career turnover rate is a good deal higher than his usage is an elite offensive player or not.

      Tyson’s TOV is high, to some extent, because he doesn’t shoot much. There are a few times a game, say, where he’d get the ball in the high post and then hand it off. If he took inefficient jump shots on those possessions, his TOV would decrease, but do you think that would make either Tyson or the offense better?

    37. Yes. Through 11 or 12 games Tyson Chandler is all-world, playing in a system he knows, with players he knows. Dalembert is in a new system with new teammates and the entire team is a mess. And yes, I think Chandler is statistically better. I agree with Nicos. The big issue I have is calling him elite. He just ain’t.

    38. Did you watch the fourth quarter last night? When they went at Shump Milwaukee could hardly get a shot up- just a ton of deflections and forced turnovers. In his rookie season his turnovers forced numbers (via synergy which I guess you can’t access anymore) were off the charts. After the ACL I don’t think he was anyway near that level again until late last year. He still loses focus at times (and isn’t helped by playing with a terrible defensive front court) but when he’s locked in he’s really, really good.

      I did – I would say that Milwaukee was self destructing to the point that they were turning the ball over and doing disastrous stuff no matter who they went at. But I’ll admit that my comment on Shump’s defense was slightly exaggeration for affect. I agree with you that he can be quite good when he’s locked in. I wouldn’t say really, really good because I think he has some bad habits even when he’s focused – way too much swiping at the ball mainly. When it works and he racks up 3 deflections in 5 minutes it looks fantastic, but a lot of times he picks up two dumb fouls and gets blown by twice while he’s going for the hero steal over and over. Then there’s the issue of focus – everyone always rags on THJ and JR for abandoning their men on the perimeter for no particular reason (i.e. not actually helping in the paint) but I see the same behavior from supposedly heady players in Shump and Pablo frequently as well. Basically I think Shump is mostly pretty decent on defense, but people seem to just take for granted the idea that he’s an excellent defensive player. I think his reputation has exceeded his production in that area – I’d rate him more like slightly above average, and I don’t think it’s crazy to suggest he might now be a better offensive player than defensive player.

    39. Basically I think Shump is mostly pretty decent on defense, but people seem to just take for granted the idea that he’s an excellent defensive player. I think his reputation has exceeded his production in that area

      Dunno but the +/- numbers indicate he’s an impact player on defense. And then there’s Wade complimenting him on his defense, Bradley Beal naming him as one of the top 3 SG defenders, and Hibbert saying that once Shump went out in OT George attacked JR in the PnR. Finally, maybe our defensive prowess a few seasons ago had a lot to do with Shump, Jeffries, Fields and not just Tyson replacing Amare at the 5. Shump historically has been underrated by this board (remember everyone wanting to unload him for 20-30 pick?) and Chandler overrated.

    40. Finally, maybe our defensive prowess a few seasons ago had a lot to do with Shump, Jeffries, Fields and not just Tyson replacing Amare at the 5.

      I think it definitely has to do with that. And I don’t think that’s a shot at Chandler, just a note that they went from having four excellent defenders in the rotation to one (Shump at the three is not an excellent defender – he is at the two, though) and their defense went from great to awful.

      But sure, Shump is probably trading a little defense for offense now, but it’s been well worth it so far.

    41. Can someone with more experience in advanced stats please explain to me how James Harden leads the league in Defensive Win Shares? Granted the season is only more or less 10 games in but that stat utterly shocked me when I saw it

    42. Harden and Howard had both been playing out of their minds to start the season. That’s already starting to come back to Earth, so you’ll see those numbers adjust as the season continues. They essentially opened the season saying, “We lost depth? Then I guess we have to both play like MVPs on both sides of the ball to keep us up.” That worked for a while but it didn’t seem sustainable at the time and it doesn’t appear to be so so far.

    43. It also could just be regression, Brian. As Lowe said today, we love the easy narrative. It could just be an outstanding streak of basketball, followed by a return to their “star, not superstar” level play (which I think is an accurate way to describe ’14-’15 Howard and one-sided-player Harden).

    44. so Harden’s defensive win share is directly affected by Howard’s play? Harden, Howard and Ariza all have DWS in the top 5 so far this season. I can’t see that continuing.

    45. His defensive win shares are directly affected by Houston’s really strong defense overall to start the season, which is why there are so many Rockets doing well in the stat. So far, Harden has actually been quite good on defense, which has played into that. As Jowles notes, though, he is likely playing over his head right now and will regress as the season goes on (but I think it is also very possible that he might have just worked on his defense over the offseason and while it won’t remain this good, I wouldn’t be surprised if he plays better on defense this season than he has in the past two seasons in Houston).

    46. Looking at the numbers to this point (I seriously initially wrote “the points to this number.” What the heck, me?), Houston, Golden State and San Antonio are just putting up some defensive stats we haven’t seen in years. It seems hard to believe they can maintain these rates. The Rockets’ defensive rating is better than the Riley Knicks!

    47. Harden is shooting sub 40% from the field and sub 30% from 3. Think the D has something to do with it?

    Comments are closed.