Knicks Morning News (2014.10.30)

  • [New York Daily News] Tri-MANGLE Offense! Knicks can’t score on opening night, suffer 24-point blowout loss to Bulls (Thu, 30 Oct 2014 06:51:16 GMT)

    There are three sides to every story, and to every triangle, but only one of them usually represents the truth. The Knicks certainly weren’t telling false tales when they maintained throughout training camp that their newly installed offensive system ? via team president Phil Jackson and first-year coach Derek Fisher ? continues to be nowhere close to peak, or even acceptable, efficiency.

  • [New York Daily News] Isola: Swift defeat for Carmelo Anthony & Co., who seem out of tune in Knicks opening loss (Thu, 30 Oct 2014 06:17:01 GMT)

    A couple of the half dozen acts James Dolan hired for opening night were straight out of the ’90s while Phil Jackson’s breathlessly overhyped triangle offense was lucky to break 70. So here’s your first guarantee of this current decade: the Knicks are going to have a huge problem this season if they keep featuring Taylor Swift more prominently than Carmelo Anthony.

  • [New York Daily News] Knicks Insider: For Amar’e Stoudemire, a surprising nod (Thu, 30 Oct 2014 05:51:27 GMT)

    One announcement was made early and one came at the last minute, but the Knicks’ opening-night lineup was a case of “surprise, surprise.”

  • [New York Daily News] Knicks’ Shane Larkin wishes he could forget first career start (Thu, 30 Oct 2014 05:42:57 GMT)

    It wasn’t the best of circumstances to make his NBA starting debut, but Shane Larkin swears it wasn’t a big deal. Barely two hours before the start of the Knicks-Bulls game, Larkin received a startling bit of news.

  • [New York Daily News] Bulls’ Derrick Rose makes healthy NBA return from ACL tear in win over Knicks at Garden (Thu, 30 Oct 2014 04:52:05 GMT)

    The returning Derrick Rose had plenty of time to take in the atmosphere at the Garden Wednesday night as he sat on the bench for the entire fourth quarter of Chicago’s 104-80 blowout win over the Knicks, and to him, the silence throughout the building spoke volumes.

  • [New York Daily News] Pau Phil-ling bro Marc Gasol in on Jackson’s plan (Thu, 30 Oct 2014 01:02:54 GMT)

    Anyone trying to guess the free-agent plans of Memphis center Marc Gasol would be wise to listen to the words of his big brother Pau Gasol.

  • [New York Daily News] Could-have-been Bulls mates not shocked Anthony picked Knicks (Thu, 30 Oct 2014 01:00:11 GMT)

    Most NBA followers thought it was a foregone conclusion that Carmelo Anthony would re-sign with the Knicks and all that money while he was hobnobbing with different clubs this summer in his free agency tour.

  • [New York Newsday] Amar'e Stoudemire makes surprise start for Knicks (Thu, 30 Oct 2014 00:09:56 EDT)

    In a bit of a surprise, Amar'e Stoudemire — and not Carmelo Anthony — addressed the crowd at the Garden before the Knicks' season opener last night.

  • [New York Newsday] Shane Larkin replaces injured Jose Calderon in Knicks' lineup (Thu, 30 Oct 2014 00:35:06 EDT)

    Jose Calderon's Knicks' debut was put on hold after he felt "discomfort" in his calf during his pregame workout.

  • [New York Times] LeBron’s Starts New Journey With Cavaliers (Thu, 30 Oct 2014 08:18:54 GMT)

    For LeBron James, the journey begins anew.

  • [New York Times] Sports of The Times: Phil Jackson Embodies an Infusion of Optimism for the Knicks (Thu, 30 Oct 2014 05:29:01 GMT)

    Despite an opening loss to the Bulls, the Knicks are excited about the new season. But the team may have to succeed before Phil Jackson’s changes win over the fans.

  • [New York Times] Blazers Beat Thunder 106-89 With Big 4th Quarter (Thu, 30 Oct 2014 05:21:58 GMT)

    LaMarcus Aldridge had 27 points and the Portland Trail Blazers rallied in the fourth quarter to beat the injury-depleted Oklahoma City Thunder 106-89 on Wednesday night in the season opener for both teams.

  • [New York Times] Warriors Whip Kings 95-77 in Season Opener (Thu, 30 Oct 2014 04:58:03 GMT)

    Stephen Curry had 24 points and 10 rebounds, Klay Thompson scored 19 points and the undermanned Golden State Warriors made Steve Kerr a winner in his coaching debut, rolling past the Sacramento Kings 95-77 on Wednesday night.

  • [New York Times] Suns Rout Lakers 119-99 Despite Kobe’s 31 Points (Thu, 30 Oct 2014 04:42:55 GMT)

    Isaiah Thomas scored 23 points in his Phoenix debut, Marcus Morris matched his career high with five 3-pointers and the Suns dominated their season opener against the Los Angeles Lakers 119-99 on Wednesday night despite Kobe Bryant’s 31 points.

  • [New York Times] Nuggets Open With 89-79 Win Over Pistons (Thu, 30 Oct 2014 04:13:04 GMT)

    Kenneth Faried scored 22 points and had 17 rebounds and the Denver Nuggets opened the season Wednesday night with an 89-79 win over Detroit, spoiling the debut of Pistons coach Stan Van Gundy.

  • [New York Times] N.B.A. Roundup: Hornets Prevail in Overtime; Hibbert Leads Pacers to Win (Thu, 30 Oct 2014 04:09:20 GMT)

    Kemba Walker made a 21-foot shot with five seconds left in overtime to lift Charlotte over Milwaukee, providing a winning conclusion for fans celebrating the return of the Hornets’ name after a 12-year absence.

  • [New York Times] Celtics 121, Nets 105: Nets Are Dismantled by the Celtics, Another Work in Progress (Thu, 30 Oct 2014 04:04:59 GMT)

    Following the lead of point guard Rajon Rondo, Boston dominated the Nets in their season opener, a night full of mishaps and misadventures.

  • [New York Times] Nuggets Open With 89-79 Win Over Pistons (Thu, 30 Oct 2014 04:00:56 GMT)

    Kenneth Faried scored 22 points and had 17 rebounds and the Denver Nuggets opened the season Wednesday night with an 89-79 win over Detroit, spoiling the debut of Pistons coach Stan Van Gundy.

  • [New York Times] Gasol, Bulls Blow Out Knicks in Rose’s Return (Thu, 30 Oct 2014 03:55:02 GMT)

    Derrick Rose spent way too much time sitting and watching the last two seasons.

  • [New York Times] Rockets Spoil Snyder’s NBA Coaching Debut (Thu, 30 Oct 2014 03:48:49 GMT)

    Dwight Howard had 22 points and 10 rebounds and the Houston Rockets beat the Utah Jazz 104-93 on Wednesday night to spoil Quin Snyder’s NBA coaching debut.

  • [New York Times] Bulls 104, Knicks 80: Knicks Juggle Starting Lineup, Then Drop Opener (Thu, 30 Oct 2014 03:38:04 GMT)

    The Bulls stormed past the Knicks, 104-80, to spoil Derek Fisher’s coaching debut and snuff some of his team’s early optimism.

  • [New York Times] Rondo Returns, Helps Celtics Beat Nets 121-105 (Thu, 30 Oct 2014 03:30:59 GMT)

    Brad Stevens knew he had an all-star point guard when he took the Celtics’ coaching job, but he didn’t really get to see it in his first season on the Boston bench.

  • [New York Times] Walker Lifts Hornets Over Bucks in OT, 108-106 (Thu, 30 Oct 2014 03:28:06 GMT)

    Kemba Walker didn’t waste any time at all providing the Charlotte Hornets with a return on their investment.

  • [New York Times] Heat Open New Era, Top Wizards 107-95 in Opener (Thu, 30 Oct 2014 03:18:49 GMT)

    No LeBron James, no problem.

  • [New York Times] Gasol Powers Memphis Past Minnesota 105-101 (Thu, 30 Oct 2014 03:03:55 GMT)

    Marc Gasol scored a career-high 32 points, and the Memphis Grizzlies beat the Minnesota Timberwolves 105-101 on Wednesday night for the franchise’s first victory in a season opener since 2000.

  • [New York Times] DeRozan Scores 15 Points, Raptors Heat Hawks (Thu, 30 Oct 2014 02:21:59 GMT)

    DeMar DeRozan had 15 points and a career-high 11 rebounds, Kyle Lowry added 11 points and 10 assists, and the Toronto Raptors opened their defense of the Atlantic Division title with an 109-102 victory over the Atlanta Hawks on Wednesday.

  • [New York Times] On Basketball: Free of Expectations, the Miami Heat See Path to Success (Thu, 30 Oct 2014 02:05:27 GMT)

    The Heat’s first season in the post-LeBron James era probably won’t be a championship run, but the act of overachievement in the face of utter dismissal can be recalled as fondly as winning it all.

  • [New York Times] Hibbert Helps Pacers Pull Away From 76ers 103-91 (Thu, 30 Oct 2014 02:03:57 GMT)

    Roy Hibbert had 22 points, eight rebounds and seven blocks, leading the short-handed Indiana Pacers to a 103-91 victory over the Philadelphia 76ers on Wednesday night.

  • [New York Times] National Basketball Association Roundup (Thu, 30 Oct 2014 00:18:48 GMT)

    LeBron James and team owner Dan Gilbert, both commenting on the eve of the Cleveland Cavaliers’ season opener, are on the same page about their relationship with the same common goal in mind.

  • [New York Times] Hornets Welcome Fans With Tuxedo-Themed Shirts (Thu, 30 Oct 2014 00:06:55 GMT)

    Charlotte Hornets fans discovered black tuxedo-themed t-shirts on their seats when they entered the team’s downtown arena for the season opener Wednesday night against the Milwaukee Bucks.

  • [New York Post] J.R. Smith: Knicks ‘stopped competing’ late in game (Thu, 30 Oct 2014 05:03:08 -0400)

    J.R. Smith spoke in a whisper, but his words were loud in their significance, biting criticism of his Knicks teammates in their no-show of a home opener. He basically said…

  • [New York Post] Starting Stoudemire sign of indecisiveness by rookie coach (Thu, 30 Oct 2014 04:53:22 -0400)

    For a while Derek Fisher looked like a genius, a modern-day Zen Master. His late insertion of Amar'e Stoudemire into the starting lineup for Wednesday night's season opener against the…

  • [New York Post] Knicks flip flop, decide not to play still-sore Calderon (Thu, 30 Oct 2014 04:21:04 -0400)

    Jose Calderon was playing, then he wasn't. At 6:30 p.m., rookie coach Derek Fisher told the assembled media his starting point guard was good to go. A half hour later,…

  • [New York Post] Pau Gasol: ‘Possible’ brother Marc could land with Knicks (Thu, 30 Oct 2014 04:09:58 -0400)

    Pau Gasol passed on the Knicks, but that doesn't mean his younger brother Marc will. Next summer, Grizzles center Marc Gasol, a versatile and supremely talented 7-foot center, will be…

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    Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

    74 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2014.10.30)”

    1. Is this Jim Rickards(via stuff You Want) for real???? He spoiled my day much more than the Knicks L.

      If You, over there are about to cough that hard than we are going to be in slime big time over here. Hope it’s just book sales tactics coz it sure looks sleazy. But the stuff he says is not very heartwarming even to me a “european commie”.

    2. While watching the game last night, I was stuck with one question:
      Is the talent in college really that good to have the type of impact that the team would need should the Knicks end up with say..a top 10 pick? Is it gonna be enough along with the presumably one big name FA (read: Marc Gasol)? I don’t know who’s left in college that I can have hopes that high. And, while I think Marc Gasol is a really really good player, I doubt he’s the answer alone. I don’t see any game changing rookies in next year’s class.

    3. Provided that Bargs plays 40 minutes a night and doesn’t miss more than these first 3 games I’m predicting 79-3.

      On another note…I would kill something, not sure what, to have Unibrow in a Knicks uniform for the rest of his career. If that guy stays relatively healthy, we’ll be talking about him as the best player in the NBA within 3 years.

      To clear something up from yesterday…I am not Jowles, as Jowles has already pointed out. And I was also just trying to inject a little humor, at Bargs expense, on the eve of what figures to be another frustrating campaign.

      That said, my comments on Unibrow were not made in jest. That guy is the goods.

    4. One game in and people already want to trade Amare for the only guy in the NBA who makes more money than he does. Unbelievable. Have you guys paid any attention to the Knicks since 2002?

    5. And just so you know, Hubert:

      That’s not me, but I do go record each and every year. You can complain all you want but I correctly picked the Knicks’ record two years in a row and was way closer than the KB mean last year.

      Of course, I have no independent research to back that up, but this is a fucking fan’s blog and I really don’t give a fuck either way.

      38-44. I’m on the record!

      Enjoy the season!

      All bets are off if New Orleans is dumb enough to trade Anthony Davis for Carmelo. Carmelo’s a superstar, right guys? Fair trade!

    6. 1. I’m not expecting much from the Knicks this year. At best I’m hoping for some upside development from the young payers and perhaps making the playoffs.

      2. I know they are learning a new offensive system.

      3. I know the Bulls are an elite defensive team.

      4. I’m a huge fan of ball movement, player movement, and good spacing

      However, that offense looked putrid at times. It’s not even that they don’t know what they are doing yet, even though that’s certainly part of it. I just think inside out post play is a terrible way to run an offense unless you have an elite player in there that really excels in the post or you have a huge mismatch advantage. I hate to say this, but it’s possible basketball has passed the Traingle by and Phil doesn’t know it yet.

    7. We’ll look better when Calderon gets back.

      If we have a legit point guard in there, he’ll be able to calm it down when the triangle breaks down. We all expected days like this anyway and the Bulls still have on of the best defenses. The fact that their offense looked that good is more worrying.

    8. Remember when we sucked last season? We still have most of the same guys-we’re not going to be good this year either. This season will hopefully about clearing out some more of the dross, seeing if any of the young guys have potential, and installing the triangle. Give it some time.

    9. That was a rough debut for Derek Fisher. The second unit he sent out there, the one with the Quincy Acy/Jason Smith frontcourt, was completely hapless, and they stayed on the court for what seemed like an eternity. I’m amazed the Bulls only ended up with 104 points because it seemed like entire quarters were passing by without any defensive stops.

    10. I hate to say this, but it’s possible basketball has passed the Traingle by and Phil doesn’t know it yet.

      Interesting. Obviously, it’s difficult to declare a system that won Phil 11 rings dead after one game. More likely is the fact that the triangle looks better when Jordan, Pippen, Shaq, Kobe, and Gasol are the featured players in it rather than Anthony, Dalembert, Shumpert, Hardaway, and Stoudemire.

      Steve Kerr was going to run the triangle in NY for Phil. But in Golden State he seems to have other plans. When asked to describe his offense he said: “It will be influenced by the Triangle, but it will not look like the Bulls of the 90’s, I can tell you that. The game has changed.”

      So Stratomiatic and Kerr seem to be on the same page. (Go Warriors!)

    11. @6 I totally agree. There were a few times where they threw the ball to Shumpert in the post, and what exactly is the point of that? Or even Dalembert, who’s really no threat to score?

      Thibodeau had Dunleavy guarding Melo one-on-one the entire game. I know we all hate ISO, but I’d be just as happy clearing out for Melo and letting him do his thing, than setting up the Triangle every possession, posting up non post up players and burning up the shot clock.

    12. I hate to say this, but it’s possible basketball has passed the Traingle by and Phil doesn’t know it yet.

      It’s not so much “the triangle” that is the important thing here. The important thing is system basketball. That means having a coherent plan from top to bottom in your organization, and finding players who mesh well with that plan. Right now this roster is stuffed full of low-IQ players who could not possibly be any worse fits for the team’s system. Of course this team is not gonna be real good right now. It’s like hiring Mike D’Antoni to run SSOL and giving him Toney Douglas as a point guard. It failed. It doesn’t mean SSOL doesn’t work, it means that if you’re going to play system basketball you need to find guys who have the skill set to run that system.

    13. The Triangle won three consecutive WCFs between ’08 and ’10, two of those being championships and followed with a 57-win team in 2011. I don’t think the NBA has changed much since then.

      Also, remember that then Mike Brown went 41-25 with a similar team composition (that’s what, a 53-win team?) even though Mike Brown is not a great coach.

      The players will always matter more than the system, unless the system entails taking as few 3-pointers as possible, in which case the system is one of many problems.

    14. It’s pretty amazing that this team now has TWO Andrea Bargnanis on it– the genuine article and the off-brand version, AKA Jason Smith.

    15. “It will be influenced by the Triangle, but it will not look like the Bulls of the 90’s, I can tell you that. The game has changed.”

      So Stratomiatic and Kerr seem to be on the same page. (Go Warriors!)

      Right.

      Conceptually, the Triangle features all the things you want from an offense. But Mike D’Antoni pretty much revolutionized basketball offense to make it more efficient. Since then, other coaches have drawn from him, taken the concepts he used, put their own spin on things (perhaps making it more flexible that he ever could) and had great success. There’s a reason everyone is trying to play uptempo, adding a stretch 4, surrounding their star player with excellent 3 point shooter to add space, running the P&R, and avoiding post play unless there’s a clear mismatch.

      It’s not that the Triangle won’t work. I’m certainly not judging it off one game with our mediocre team. It’s something I’ve been thinking about. I’m concerned that post play is no longer the most effective way to do things (with exceptions like Shaq, etc..) and we have a great new organization doing everything right EXCEPT the system we are choosing.

    16. I’ve got one game of hard evidence that conclusively proves the triangle is done. I bet you didn’t even watch the game last night.

    17. All bets are off if New Orleans is dumb enough to trade Anthony Davis for Carmelo. Carmelo’s a superstar, right guys? Fair trade!

      Stop. Even in jest you’re making me dream dreams that might cause me to eventually lose my grasp on reality.

      In one of my two fantasy leagues I ended up with the second pick. I’ve never been so happy to NOT have the top pick because I knew I wouldn’t be able to pass up BronBron if I had that #1 slot but grabbing Davis at #2 is just joyful. I got league pass this year for many reasons…chief among which is the ability to watch that dude play as many nights as possible.

    18. As for last night…it makes me sick to see Jason Smith taking away minutes from Cole. He’s awful.

      I thought Fish’s sub-patterns last night were similarly putrid. If I’m going to draw any positives from last night it will be the following:

      -The Haitian looks like he’s going to be a pretty good passer within the framework of the triangle
      -I didn’t hate how Larkin looked. Given that I don’t believe we’re a good team with any chance at doing anything other than eking out an 8 seed (and I kinda hope we don’t), I’d like to see us give Larkin a legitimate chance to develop. Let’s at least see if we have something there.

      Negatives:
      -ALMOST EVERYTHING ELSE
      -Fish looked so damn lost at certain points.
      -Travis Wear looked very un-NBAish
      -Cole didn’t play until garbage time
      -Our offense seemed to run through The Haitian…why was our offense running through the Haitian?!?!

    19. Spoiler Alert: Sorry guys, Cole Aldrich sucks. Yes, really.
      Anyone who thinks he deserves big minutes and truly believes he better than Amare, has a lower basketball IQ than Tony Douglas (thought I’d get him in a second time on today’s thread).

    20. The Triangle won three consecutive WCFs between ’08 and ’10, two of those being championships and followed with a 57-win team in 2011. I don’t think the NBA has changed much since then.

      I don’t want to come down too strongly on one side of the “Triangle is dead” debate as it does seem a bit premature, but I do think the NBA has evolved pretty rapidly since the 10-11 season. That Lakers team shot 1487 3s that season which put them above the league average. That number would have been 26th in the league last year and if I were a betting man I’d wager 3s will be even higher this year than last. League average team 3PA increased by about 3.5 per game over those 4 years. Median rose even faster. The game is a lot more based on spread pick and roll principals than it was even 4 years ago (for whatever that’s worth -potentially nothing).

    21. Spoiler Alert: Sorry guys, Cole Aldrich sucks. Yes, really.
      Anyone who thinks he deserves big minutes and truly believes he better than Amare, has a lower basketball IQ than Tony Douglas (thought I’d get him in a second time on today’s thread).

      The exact opposite of what you said.

    22. BTW go back & watch when Cole goes in. One of the first defensive plays, Amar’e doubles on a pnr and then watches his guy (Gasol?) receive the ball right under the hoop all by himself. STAT was about 12 feet from the hoop guarding Casper the ghost. It’s was Bargnanian.

      I rewound it 3 times, then kicked a small stuffed animal.

    23. Anyone who thinks he deserves big minutes and truly believes he better than Amare, has a lower basketball IQ than Tony Douglas (thought I’d get him in a second time on today’s thread).

      Oh, okay. You totally convinced me. Your insight is like a beacon, guiding us low basketball IQ nimrods through the darkness. Speak, oh holy prophet, and we shall be learned.

    24. “I hate to say this, but it’s possible basketball has passed the Traingle by and Phil doesn’t know it yet.”

      I think it might work a little better with Marc Gasol down low….

      Melo for Anthony Davis, please don’t talk about that, I would go out in the middle of a snowstorm naked and hump a lamppost to make that happen…..

    25. I’m sure after Anthony Davis’ opening night performance, Pelicans management called an emergency meeting to discuss trading options.

    26. Melo for Anthony Davis, please don’t talk about that, I would go out in the middle of a snowstorm naked and hump a lamppost to make that happen…..

      Sadly…I would probably do even worse than that. Something involving the removing of limbs (my own, most likely) and the sacrificing of goats and lambs at whatever altar requires them. Seriously, I’d sell my soul. Not sure how much it’s worth on the open market, but there’s always an idiot out there willing to overpay for dreck (see: Bargnani, Andrea)

    27. I think I would probably give a finger up, not one of the important ones, but sure….

      What would Knicks fans do to have Anthony Davis in the orange and white, I wonder…

    28. Damn they just announced that Calderon is out 2-3 weeks.

      Welp…guess we’ll be seeing Lots O Larkin.

      Which, by the way, is certainly bad for this whole acclimating to the triangle thing but is a nice opportunity to see what the kid can do and start to determine whether he should be part of the plans moving forward.

    29. Well, I’ve spent the past 26 minutes or so thinking about the NBA (which is more than I’ve dedicated to the game for several years now). And I’ve come up with the following conclusion:

      The Golden State Warriors are the team that the Knicks would have become had the 2010 LeBronathon never happened.

      Walsh would have kept Lee over Amar’e. He would have found a way to trade up one slot in 2009 to draft Curry (whom he obviously wanted, but didn’t want to take on contracts extending past 2010 to obtain). Walsh also wanted Mark Jackson as coach in 2008, which probably wouldn’t have worked out, and would have led to Walsh being replaced by Phil. Who would have hired Kerr to implement a hybrid-triangle.

      Point is, the Warriors are a team of near misses by the Knicks. And they are young and fun and likable and talented. All that with a dysfunctional ownership. Go figure!

      I really wanted Kerr to coach the Knicks. And I really wanted Curry in 2009. And I really wanted Lee to stay a Knick. And I’m one of the few people that actually liked that GS didn’t trade for Kevin Love. So I’d really like for them to succeed this year. And I haven’t really wanted to see a pro-sports team succeed for several years now, so I guess I really am a Golden State Warriors fan now. Seems kinda strange to say. But acceptance is the first step to recovery, and I’ve been a dry-drunk of an NBA fan for the past 2 1/2 years.

      So I’m gonna leave y’all (once again), and go introduce myself over at the Warriorblogger.net site that I’m sure has all the same cast of characters that I enjoy here. If you want me, you know where to find me:)

    30. BTW go back & watch when Cole goes in. One of the first defensive plays, Amar’e doubles on a pnr and then watches his guy (Gasol?) receive the ball right under the hoop all by himself. STAT was about 12 feet from the hoop guarding Casper the ghost.

      The same can be said of Cole on offense. He’s a lumbering, slow, unathletic big man with no feel for the ball. He regularly misses 5-footers! He’s lucky to have a roster spot on the knicks. NO team in the NBA would have him anywhere other than the end of the bench – or maybe one row back.

      The notion that he is better than Amare is absurd.

      Oh, okay. You totally convinced me. Your insight is like a rebeacon, guiding us low basketball IQ nimrods through the darkness. Speak, oh holy prophet, and we shall be learned.

      That’s the shame of it. There are some really knowledgeable people here who make great posts, but also many many ” low basketball IQ nimrods” that don’t have a clue.

      I’m wrong, and D. Fisher is wrong, and Phil Jackson is wrong, and all the other GM’s are wrong. (more “low basketball IQ nimrods” ). Only a few people on this blog know the greatness of Cole.

      Coming here for a fix of real knicks talk, and reading that the problem is not enough Cole is half pathetic and half hilarious.

    31. The problem is that we have only two guys on this team that are reliable shooters — Melo and Calderon (who’s out for two weeks).

      Our guards are streaky at best or subpar shooters at worst. Outside of Amare, we have no big that can reliably post up. We have one good/solid defender in Shump and a bunch that are either uncapable of quality defense or too lazy (see all the open shots by Taj Gibson and lazy close outs). We do not have a reliable scorer of even 15+ pts on the team who is not injury prone or ridiculously streaky.

      You can’t have an offense that emphasizes spacing then have no one that can reliably take advantage of said space by hitting an open jumper.

      We need a roster overhaul for this offense to work, period. This team is not a Cole Aldrich or even a Marc Gasol away from contention. I just don’t see anyone on this team taking a major step forward (perhaps Larkin, THJ, maybe)…everyone else is either at peak or on decline.

    32. Something involving the removing of limbs (my own, most likely)

      Tainted meat!
      /walkingdead

      I’m wrong, and D. Fisher is wrong, and Phil Jackson is wrong, and all the other GM’s are wrong. (more “low basketball IQ nimrods” ). Only a few people on this blog know the greatness of Cole.

      True. The best people to evaluate basketball players are people who have played basketball and run basketball organizations. D. Fisher, and every person who has ever coached a basketball team or played basketball, is more knowledgeable on which players will make the best NBA players.

      We’ve seen it here in New York year after year. For example Larry Brown was right to cut Matt Barnes after 6 games, as he would never amount to anything. Mike D’Antoni privately knew that Jeremy Lin was good enough to be a quality NBA starter, that’s why he played Toney Douglas, the corpse of Mike Bibby, and the fat corpse of Baron Davis. Mike D only played Lin weeks later when all seemed lost, and Pringles unleashed his master plan on the world. It was masterful how former All Star player Isiah Thomas traded Trevor Ariza for Steve Francis. Ariza was a second rounder that didn’t amount to much, while Francis and Marbury formed an awesome PG tandem.

      While to us, common observers unclouded by our bias towards how a guy looks on the court, these moves look ridiculous. But only to the infallible former NBA players, managers, and front offices, do these evaluations make sense. And we should all laugh at anyone who critiques them or thinks otherwise!

    33. Tainted meat!
      /walkingdead

      Interestingly…I FINALLY started watching that show…today…for the first time. Just started episode 2 of season 1 and I’m hooked.

      @Hoolahoop

      What’s half pathetic and half hilarious is your appeal to authority in this case (not to mention the insufferable arrogance of labeling many of the posters here who I believe to be

      really knowledgeable people here who make great posts

      as low bball IQ idiots).

      Nobody, to my knowledge, has seriously deemed Cole a superstar or the savior of our franchise. But the fact that you mock the idea that Cole deserves the minutes going to Jason Smith, to my mind, shows the same low bball IQ that you are railing against. Pot calling the kettle black, perhaps?

    34. Cole is a superstar of bench players. He’s the perfect backup center, meaning that he should be starting for the Knicks, as they have no other prospects available.

    35. We’ve seen it here in New York year after year. For example Larry Brown was right to cut Matt Barnes after 6 games, as he would never amount to anything. Mike D’Antoni privately knew that Jeremy Lin was good enough to be a quality NBA starter, that’s why he played Toney Douglas, the corpse of Mike Bibby, and the fat corpse of Baron Davis. ………..

      Wow! – I could spend the rest of my waking life refuting your points.
      For starters, you can’t have it both ways. When I, or anyone else, criticizes a PJ move, the chorus screams, “Yeah right, you know more than Phil Jackson” .
      I’m the first to point our the falibilities of the experts, but, in this case, PJ is right an you are wrong.

      Jeremy Lin is overrated on this blog, and overpaid by anyone’s metric – including those that signed his contract.
      Matt Barnes? YOu’re kidding. He played a good role on a team oozing with talent (not the knicks).
      Cole Aldrich? I wish you were joking. He’s better than Amare?
      Why don’t you go to a post game interview and suggest to D. Fisher that Cole is a better player than Amare and should be starting and getting his minutes. The room would erupt with laughter. Fisher wouldn’t even answer. Yet, other posters here think the same thing. Hmmm?
      This reminds me of when people here were saying that Landry Fields was on a career trajectory equal to Grant Hill. Were you one of those?

    36. you mock the idea that Cole deserves the minutes going to Jason Smith,

      No, I never said that. Neither Cole or J. Smith should be getting J. Smith’s minutes.

    37. Cole is a superstar of bench players. He’s the perfect backup center, meaning that he should be starting for the Knicks, as they have no other prospects available.

      It/s one thing to chant “COLE” when it’s garbage time. But to believe he’s the “superstar of bench players. . . and perfect backup center” is Cole-sanity. And that’s not funny.
      If that’s the concensus here, this blog is doomed.

    38. @39…

      actually, that’s exactly what you said (or, at least, inferred). My point was that I believe Cole should be getting Jason Smith’s minutes. Nothing more. I believe, and many other intelligent posters agree, that he’s a much more productive and useful piece than Smith is.

      Your response to this was:

      Anyone who thinks he deserves big minutes…has a lower basketball IQ than Tony Douglas

      I intentionally omitted the bit about being better than Amar’e because that’s not a statement that I ever made.

      I guess you’re right…this blog is doomed. What a bunch of idiots we all are for thinking any differently.

    39. Tomorrow is going to be ugly

      By tomorrow do you mean tonight? Or are you speaking of the nuclear fallout on this blog tomorrow?

    40. hoolahoop,

      I want to level with you. Some weeks ago, I woke up and I found out that I had turned X years old. In my mind, I still felt like I was X minus 7 years old, a time during which (no shit) I had a smoking-hot, young girlfriend and was a touring musician for a babe-friendly, famous pop singer, during whose shows I would get all sorts of sweaty behind a drumset and ladies would ask if they could hang out with us after the show. Now, I’m not the world’s ugliest man, and I certainly have a wonderful Mrs. Jowles whom I wouldn’t trade for the world, but I’m not X-7, no matter how much I want it to be true. My belly swells after just a couple weekends of burger-and-beer indulgence and I get achy and stay achier after a hard gym session. My hair is all there, but my boyish skin is fading fast. I even had a stubborn case of eczema that required a $200 trip to the specialist. I blame it on the ineluctable trappings of age, that slow testosterone fall-off that begets us all. The natural production of hGH just isn’t there anymore. It starts falling off at age 20.

      Look, I know you want Amar’e to be 25 again. I too would love to be 25 again, even though my life is way more rad now than it was then. But I’m not 25, and neither is Amar’e. And even though my career is on the upswing, Amar’e’s isn’t. He’s not a good basketball player. Some of that has to do with the fact that he’s not 25 anymore. And he’s not going to be. Ever. Do you understand that? I hope you do. Time is lots of things, but for a basketball player, it’s a big ol’ hill, and every player climbs it and then falls back down it. Sometimes they gently glide down the hill (like KG and Timmy D) and sometimes they fall face-first (like T-Mac and Penny). Sometimes they smash their hand into a fire alarm during that descent. That’s just the way it is.

    41. At some point enough of our brittle front court guys will be hurt so that Fisher will be forced to play Cole. Bargs, Stat and Jason Smith are not exactly iron men.

    42. It only took one terrible opener to get this place hopping again. I love it! I can’t wait to watch tonight’s beatdown. I wonder how many games it will be before Melo says eff this and just starts breaking the play over and over again.

    43. Hoolahoop,

      You are strawmanning here. Let me make my points clear.

      First off I don’t know what you’re referring to. You have the right to criticize Phil Jackson or D. Fisher. So I’m not trying to have it both ways. I’m not ever sure what you’re referring to with this.

      Why does every one I mention either have to be an All Star or complete garbage?

      Sure Jeremy Lin, Matt Barnes, and Trevor Ariza aren’t All Stars. But they, like Cole, were thought to be garbage time only NBA players by NBA coaches and front offices. However they all turned out to be good enough to be starters in the NBA, far greater than the same evaluators pegged them at.

      As for Cole, there are varying opinions on him. Do I think he’s an All Star caliber NBA player? No. Do I think his skill set is underrated? Yes. Do I think he’s a net positive at the center position? Yes. Do I think he’s better than Jason Smith at center? Yes. Do I think it’s a mistake that the team isn’t playing him more minutes? Yes? Do I think he has the chance to be a decent starter in this league? Yes.

      Clear things up?

    44. I’m by no means a WP guy. I’m pretty much an eye test guy. But even as an eye test guy I just don’t understand how you could conclude that it’s some sort of insanity to think that Cole is basically a perfect backup C. I mean he went 11th in the NBA draft specifically because he had all the skills to be a perfect backup C with the hope that he could be the rich man’s version of that.

      1. He’s big and uses that size to block the occasional shot.
      2. He gets rebounds – lots of them
      3. He sets picks
      4. If you give him the ball within arm’s range of the rim, he can dunk it through.

      That’s what a backup C is. That’s what Cole is. Seriously take a look around the league, even at good teams. OKC’s backup is Perkins. SAS have Baynes. It’s not exactly like it’s some sky high bar we’re talking about here.

    45. I wonder how many games it will be before Melo says eff this and just starts breaking the play over and over again.

      Yeah I was surprised he didn’t do it last night. I was SURE we were about to start seeing a shitload of Meloball. He was oddly reserved.

      I would think he’ll take tonight’s match-up with Bron a little more personally so if we stagnate as bad as we did last night, I think we might see plenty of that.

      On another note, re: the triangle…
      We’re so discombobulated when it comes to actually setting up the triangle once the ball crosses half court that it felt like every possession last night began with about 10 seconds left on the shot clock. I do think this will get better with time but it’s so abundantly clear that everybody is simply thinking too much right now. The triangle can work if it’s muscle memory, if everybody goes to their spots right away and the guards make the correct entry pass, and so forth and so on. But right now it’s like you can see them all thinking and it’s taking forever just to get into the set. It’s gonna be really ugly for a while.

    46. Anyone notice that Acy gets his moneys worth on each foul….there’s something to like!! #hardfouls

    47. Would have like to see Jason smith foul Gibson a few times, instead of letting him shoot over and over…jeez!

    48. I did see that, Jowles, and posted later in the game thread:

      Thanks for going on record, Jowles. If you’re going to boast later, got to be clear now.

      You understand.

      And you picked the same amount of wins I did, though I did say 38-40.

      Sorry for the name mixup. It sounded like Jowles, the name wasn’t your style, though. Should have caught that.

    49. the name wasn’t your style

      For the record, the name is a reference to a line in a track by my favorite new rap artist out there, Your Old Droog. He’s a Coney Island kid and he throws a ton of Knicks references into his songs. The “BANG! Like Mike Breen” line comes from this track:

      http://www.audiomack.com/song/your-old-droog/free-turkey-1
      (that line is about 1:50 seconds into the track)

      In another track he references Tom Gugliotta, which makes me very happy:

      “Had Wolves since Steph, KG & Gugliotta”

    50. I for one don’t really want to see Acy at all anymore. He hasn’t shown himself (Small sample here at least) to be a good defender, and he shoots way too much. There’s a reason he’s so wide open and it’s not the magic of the Triangle Offense.

      I’d divide the minutes like this:

      C: Dalembert 26 minutes, Cole 18 minutes, Amare 4 minutes
      PF: Amare 26 minutes (30 total), Jason Smith 15 minutes, Melo 7 minutes
      SF: Melo 28 minutes (35 total), JR 10 minutes, Hardaway 10 minutes
      SG: Shumpert 36 minutes, JR 6 minutes, Hardaway 6 minutes (16 min total each for JR+Hardaway)
      PG: Larkin 20 minutes, Pablo 28 minutes until Calderon is back

      10 man rotation.

    51. How many teams in the league would/should Cole start for? There are maybe 6 or 7 teams where you I think you could make a decent argument. I think he has the potential to be an average starter- he’s a good shot blocker and a really good rebounder but he’s got very poor hands and no range on offense (though I think given his free throw stroke he could be okay from 10-15) and on defense he’s a pretty average man defender and not exactly the swiftest rotate and recover guy but at least he knows where he’s supposed to be and has pretty active hands which make up for the slow feet a bit. The real question is is he a better center than Jason Smith (or Amar’e or Bargs) and I think the answer there is certainly yes. I called for Cole to start in preseason but it’s pretty clear Dalembert has a better understanding of the triangle so I’m fine with him starting. I do think the hand-wringing over Cole’s minutes goes way overboard though so I understand where hoolahoop is coming from.

    52. Yeah, Dalembert is a perfectly fine center. He’s not great or anything, but I have no problems with him playing. Cole is- for my money at least-literally the only other center on the roster. Jason Smith is a finesse 4, Amare is so catastrophically bad playing defense at C that you give back whatever he gives you with his still excellent offense, and Bargnani is Bargnani. If you don’t think Cole should get backup center minutes, who the hell do you think they should go to?

    53. PANIC!!!!
      DISASTER!!!!
      THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!

      What’s the matter with all of you? Are you bat-s**t crazy? It’s game 1 dudes.
      GAME #1 !!!!

      Cool down. We played the friggin Bulls – who are going to challenge LeBron big time. Melo out about Melo and his pals. The first 2 months might be BRUTAL. Expect it. Live it. Don’t freak out about it.

      The boys are in kindergarten right now. They can barely spell triangle. Give them a few months before you blow your stacks.

      Sheeesh.

    54. @62 … Cole should be the back up center, but in the triangle offense the center needs to be able to 1) be a post-up threat and/or (1b) be able to hit the FT line / low mid range jumper..and (2) pass. Cole is below average to bad at these two/three things. He is hands down the best rebounder and perhaps best big man defender the Knicks have, but on the offensive end he’s a square peg in a triangle…

      Phil has what he has — the team will certainly play better after a couple months of playing in the triangle, but I’m pretty convinced that the players we have now, minus very few exceptions, would not have been handpicked for this system

    55. Stat playing 2nd unit center tonight, nerds.

      Oh good, it’s been a while since our 2nd unit embarrassed themselves on national TV.

    56. Its so funny, how easily swayed i feel sometimes. I read, ‘basketball may have passed triangle by’ followed by Kerr’s quote and im like fu@k!!, he’s right, we’re screwed! Then i read a post saying ‘triangle would look alot better with marc gasol in the post’ and im like…oh duh…he’s right, cool. I’m glad none of us agree on anything, that way, each doomsday post that freaks me out is always immediately followed up with an equal and opposite post that makes me feel better.

      I dunno, who posted it, but it did seem like Fish kept that bench unit in waaaaaaay too long; i was so irritated. I’m the biggest Amare fan in the world, but i’m at the point where i actually dont want to rely on him to win a few games…i’d rather invest the valuable court development time in guys who will be around. Sadly, Amare is the past. But it does warm my heart to see him play well.

      Question…is the triangle really worth the learning curve? Isnt the d’antoni system simpler and just as effective? It requires ball movement and chastises iso-ball just like the triangle. I just feel like if we ever make a big in-season trade, or roster overhaul this summer, we’re going to have to go through the “we’re learning the triangle” bullshit that’ll cost us 10 games. Just run d’antoni offense…move the damn ball and focus the mental effort on defense! my low-IQ $0.02.

      Last point, why the F wouldnt we pick up the $1.6MM option on Larkin?? If he turns into something special, thats a great, cheap asset! If he sucks, thats a very minimal-cap impact contract. We loved the Dallas trade cause we got prospects…if we have no intention of keeping/developing those prospects, whats the point??? Just seems nuts to me…if the kid is great, we’d have to pay a free agent or let him walk now…just like the dude who went to Indy (not saying he was great, but u know what i mean). $1.6MM is a very cap-friendly gamble…i dont get it.

    57. The fun part of the evening will begin when Cole is on the floor as the 5 and Cleveland goes “small” and plays Love at the 5 and LeBron at the 4. The LOL’s will ensue.

      But he can rebound vs garbage time players……

    58. Man what did we do to deserve these first two opponents…on a back to back no less, damn! They hate us!

    59. Really looking forward to being the sacrificial lambs tonight, I hope we don’t spoil the celebration by actually keeping it close.

    60. Watched the replay last night when I got home from work. Definitely a disappointing way to start the season, but I mean c’mon. We played a team that is likely to be a Conference finalist and trotted out a team still learning a new system, new coach and half a rosters worth of guys who have had one camp together, most of which was spent learning the new system from scratch. Considering most here predicted a fairly mediocre year from this team, I am not too concerned with yesterday’s result. It sucked we lost, don’t get me wrong, but there were enough flashes on offence that once this team gets there head around things and they develop a bit of chemistry (really liked some of the plays featuring Dalembert and Larkin) they could get things going. The D was a bit of a concern though. Our backcourt can’t really guard anyone.

      I think this team will take their lumps over the first part of the season for sure, but I think (at least I would like to think!) this team will get into a better offensive grove come the New Year. The upside from last night was that although it was a shambles at times, it was visible that there was a gameplan and the players looked committed to executing it. Dare I say it though, but I think I would like to see a bit more Melo-iso every now and again to keep the score ticking over.

    61. WHY WOULD THEY GIVE THEM THOSE STUPID LIGHT THINGS? WHERE WAS THE CLAPPING?

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