Knicks Morning News (2014.10.20)

  • [New York Daily News] Knicks moving forward without Andrea Bargnani (Mon, 20 Oct 2014 00:23:50 GMT)

    Derek Fisher hopes to solidify his playing rotation later this week, but Andrea Bargnani’s continued absence will offer further opportunities for the other power forwards on the Knicks to impress the coaching staff.

  • [New York Times] On Pro Basketball: Reminder of Knicks’ Dysfunction Is Again Hoping to Solve It (Mon, 20 Oct 2014 05:07:00 GMT)

    Jim Cleamons, a current assistant and former Knicks player, has ties to Phil Jackson, the team president, and an awkward history with Walt Frazier, the TV analyst.

  • [New York Times] Sports of The Times: Milwaukee Bucks Seek Financing for Arena as Schools and Other City Centers Face Money Problems (Mon, 20 Oct 2014 05:06:04 GMT)

    The Bucks have joined the list of professional sports teams that have sought public financing to build arenas or stadiums, even as Milwaukee’s schools and recreation centers face money problems.

  • [New York Times] Bryant Scores 26, Lakers Rally Past Jazz 98-91 (Mon, 20 Oct 2014 04:20:10 GMT)

    Kobe Bryant scored 26 points and Carlos Boozer added 19, leading the Los Angeles Lakers to a 98-91 preseason victory over the Utah Jazz on Sunday night.

  • [New York Times] Rockets Beat Warriors 90-83 in Exhibition Game (Mon, 20 Oct 2014 03:16:57 GMT)

    James Harden had 15 points and seven rebounds to help the Houston Rockets beat the Golden State Warriors 90-83 in an exhibition game Sunday night.

  • [New York Times] Hinrich Scores 26 Points, Bulls Beat Hornets (Mon, 20 Oct 2014 02:40:55 GMT)

    Kirk Hinrich scored 26 points on 11-of-14 shooting and the Chicago Bulls beat the Charlotte Hornets 101-96 in an exhibition game Sunday night.

  • [New York Times] N.B.A. Players Union Hires New Counsel (Mon, 20 Oct 2014 02:14:59 GMT)

    The N.B.A. players union has hired Gary Kohlman as its new general counsel, according to a person who was briefed on the negotiations but was not authorized to speak publicly.

  • [New York Times] Mo Williams Helps Timberwolves Beat Thunder (Mon, 20 Oct 2014 01:59:00 GMT)

    Mo Williams scored 19 points in the Minnesota Timberwolves’ 112-94 exhibition victory over the Oklahoma City Thunder on Sunday night.

  • [New York Times] In Shorter-Game Experiment, Nets See Disparities as Minute (Mon, 20 Oct 2014 00:40:22 GMT)

    The N.B.A. used the Nets-Celtics preseason game Sunday to conduct a one-time experiment with a shorter format, including 11-minute quarters.

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    Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

    46 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2014.10.20)”

    1. looks like the hamstring injury might save us from Bargnani. Given that Fisher started him in the 1st preseason game, it seems possible that he was penciled in as the starting PF.

      Would love to know what the story was on the Bargnani trade. Was it Grunwald? Dolan? Woodson? All of the above?

    2. Would love to know what the story was on the Bargnani trade. Was it Grunwald? Dolan? Woodson? All of the above?

      I think they thought they were legitimate contenders (lmao) and wanted insurance in case Amare couldn’t play. It wouldn’t have been a bad long term move if they didn’t give up a pick as part of it. Even though most fans didn’t realize it at the time, they should have been in rebuild mode at that point anyway. So moving Novak’s contract was fine. I believe he had 1 extra year over Bargs. Again, the pick was the killer.

    3. Again, the pick was the killer.

      Nope, the real killer were all the minutes given to Bargs because, well, the East is big, man.

    4. but who should those minutes have gone to? who was on the roster and healthy and ready to play, and was that much better? Cole? It wasn’t Amare at the beginning of the year, and it wasn’t Kenyon.

      I don’t think bargs lost us those games alone, although he sure didn’t help.

      I guess the logic is kinda a circle. You don’t trade for a guy making that much $$ and not play him, even if you hadn’t given up the pick. I do agree, the pick was the killer.

    5. but who should those minutes have gone to? who was on the roster and healthy and ready to play, and was that much better? Cole?

      OH NO HE DIDN’T

    6. I did, and I’m regretting it. Let me ask it this way……we needed 2 more wins to get the 8 spot, where Atl got beat by Ind, before Ind imploded. If we gave Bargnani’s 1200 minutes to Cole, would we have won 2 more games? would it have mattered? The 7th seed (charlotte) lost to Miami. That 7 seed had 6 more wins than us. We would have needed to get to 6th to make a real difference, and that would have needed 7 or 8 more wins.

      We didn’t lose a lottery pick. Would getting killed in the first round have been much better than finishing 9th? Would shifting Barg’s time to Cole alone have been worth 2-7 more wins…keeping in mind the same horrible coach who set that lineup was doing lots of other horrible coach-ie things?

    7. If we gave Bargnani’s 1200 minutes to Cole, would we have won 2 more games? would it have mattered?

      Absolutely. And that depends by what matters to you. If you want to see the Knicks win a title, no, it would not have mattered, because last year’s team wasn’t winning a title. If you want James Dolan to make more money, it would have mattered. If you would have enjoyed watching the Knicks get pummeled by the Heat in the playoffs, it would have mattered. 1200 minutes of Cole probably means Lebron makes the Cavs give him, though, so there’s that.

    8. but who should those minutes have gone to? who was on the roster and healthy and ready to play, and was that much better?

      He should not have been on the roster in the first place. We needed to find the next Novak/Copeland. really any healthy body with good stats that we could grab off the D-League.

      Nick Fazekas.

    9. “I don’t think bargs lost us those games alone, although he sure didn’t help.”
      Chrisko — you need to understand something — everything bad that happened to the Knicks last year happened because of Bargnani. They were a terrible team because of Bargnani. All of their losses were caused by Bargnani. Bargnani is the worst player in the history of the NBA and they probably would have gone undefeated if only they had left Bargnani on the bench. How do I know this? Because, the day after his season ending injury, the Knicks absolutely positively took off! They were world beaters! They had every other team in the league quaking in their boots! (By the way, the posters on this site would very much appreciate it if you would kindly ignore the fact that, in the month or so after his injury, the Knicks went 6-13 and looked brutally bad in most of those games, since that kind of doesn’t really support their argument that Bargnani caused all of the Knicks’ ills last year.)

    10. Geez some people still can’t admit they were wrong about the trade and go off and build internet strawmen to tear down. It might be more accurate to say the internet brings out the “rain man” in a lot of people so you get a lot of the same points and arguments over and over and over (sort of like me and this issues). Why I remember a guy who couldn’t stop equating everything to horse racing or pool shooting or some such thing. :-)

    11. This ebola scare is like this time I hit the exacta in the 4th up at Saratoga. . .

      #italianstallian4eva

    12. Chrisko — you need to understand something — everything bad that happened to the Knicks last year happened because of Bargnani. They were a terrible team because of Bargnani. All of their losses were caused by Bargnani. Bargnani is the worst player in the history of the NBA and they probably would have gone undefeated if only they had left Bargnani on the bench. How do I know this? Because, the day after his season ending injury, the Knicks absolutely positively took off! They were world beaters! They had every other team in the league quaking in their boots! (By the way, the posters on this site would very much appreciate it if you would kindly ignore the fact that, in the month or so after his injury, the Knicks went 6-13 and looked brutally bad in most of those games, since that kind of doesn’t really support their argument that Bargnani caused all of the Knicks’ ills last year.)

      No one ever said any of this shit. If he didn’t play, we would’ve been a low seeded playoff team. Since he did, we weren’t even that.

    13. Johnno is completely right, this site over blames Bargnani every time he is brought up. Even if you makes excuses for the 6-13 record when he was injured; you are also forgetting how bad Felton was and the fact that there was a lot of commentary on this site that the Knicks guard play last year, especially on defense, was the biggest reason the Knicks were so horrible last season.

    14. I haven’t seen anyone deny that Felton was horrible last year. He’s not on the team anymore, though. Bargs is, and seems like he is in line to get significant minutes if he can actually be healthy. That’s the biggest reason why everyone here bashes him.

    15. Chandler got hurt and the Knicks played better. Is that evidence that Chandler isn’t valuable?

      C’mon, bros.

      http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/1994.html

      This team lost the best SG in basketball history in the middle of his prime and still won 55 games. Saying that Jordan isn’t awesome because his former team continued to be awesome — that’s just dumb. It just means that his team was still awesome. (Also, Jordan is probably overrated.)

      Bargnani was the worst player on a bad team. Is that so hard to swallow?

    16. The problem last year was at the guard position: Felton played terribly on offense and on defense, Prigioni was injured quite a lot, Woodson did not give a chance to Beno Udrih. There was no ball movement at all, and they did not shoot the 3 well either. That was the real reason we did so bad. Bargnani is a bad player, too, but not to the point that is exaggerated in this board.

    17. No matter what follows the phrase “The problem last year was…” you’re 100% guaranteed to be wrong. There was not one problem with a team that won 37 games. There were many. Bargnani was bad and the trade backfired because we definitely could have used Novak’s 3-point bombing (plus picks are always good to have). The guard play was also atrocious. The coaching was horrible. The defense was horrible. Ignore Carmelo and then try to name another thing about last year’s team that was good. Seriously, try it. It’s not easy to do. THJ was pretty fun in a few games. Stat had a dominant stretch in there offensively. I think that’s all I got. I don’t think anybody is saying, or has ever said, that Bargnani was the only thing wrong with last years no good, very bad team.

      But he did suck though.

    18. I feel like there aren’t too many days on this site where Bargnani discussion doesn’t come up. Time to move on folks. The trade was bad, Bargnani isn’t worth the price tag and the Knicks sucked last year for a plethora of reasons. Fish and PJ have brought some positive vibes to the organisation and AB comes of the books soon. I don’t think there is anything anyone can add to the Bargnani discussion that hasn’t already been repeated ad nauseam.

    19. I feel like there aren’t too many days on this site where Bargnani discussion doesn’t come up. Time to move on folks. The trade was bad, Bargnani isn’t worth the price tag and the Knicks sucked last year for a plethora of reasons. Fish and PJ have brought some positive vibes to the organisation and AB comes of the books soon. I don’t think there is anything anyone can add to the Bargnani discussion that hasn’t already been repeated ad nauseam.

      Feels like the last few days for the season are always dominated by incessant rehashing of already endlessly discussed topics. Everyone is fired up for the season to start so posting has ramped back up to much closer to in season levels, and yet there aren’t any freaking games to talk about.

    20. I don’t think there is anything anyone can add to the Bargnani discussion that hasn’t already been repeated ad nauseam.

      But our hatred of Barn-yarn-y is what bonds us all together. Don’t try to take it away.

    21. Bargs comes up a lot because he’s currently a big story for this team. Much of the coverage of the Knicks right now is what Bargs’ role on the team will be. There was just an article the other day where John Starks said some dumb stuff about how good Bargs is. So long as he keeps getting covered, we’ll keep talking about him.

    22. But our hatred of Barn-yarn-y is what bonds us all together. Don’t try to take it away.

      Unity is unity I guess ha ha.

      Everyone is fired up for the season to start so posting has ramped back up to much closer to in season levels, and yet there aren’t any freaking games to talk about

      Win or lose I need me some KB game recaps!!!

    23. And all of that considered, thenamestsam, and the Knicks finished with a pythag of 39 wins. That was with Tyson Chandler having a negative +/- and the Knicks having a better winning percentage with him out of the lineup (once again).

    24. And all of that considered, thenamestsam, and the Knicks finished with a pythag of 39 wins. That was with Tyson Chandler having a negative +/- and the Knicks having a better winning percentage with him out of the lineup (once again).

      So you’re saying that you take the 37 wins, round it up to 39. Add a few wins for removing that cancer Tyson (have some vague memories of Ruru preaching about Tyson and Melo’s beautiful symbiosis, but now that he’s gone I guess he’s the scapegoat), a few more for replacing that dolt Woodson, and you get what, exactly? You picking the Knicks for 50 wins this year, Ruru? The people demand to know.

    25. Everyone understands Bargs and it is really tedious. Cole A may play and he may not, but if he can actually play, he will play at some point in the near future. The Knicks are really devoid of talent at the 5. Fischer played with him and watched him practice for 3 months in 2012, so he knows him better than we do.

      Jackson understands the game of basketball far better than any of us and he has zero agenda against him and he won championships with an array of centers like Wennington, Perdue, Longley, Dele, Haley, etc. Cartwright was the only real player as a center he had in his 6 championship seasons in Chicago so he understands he can win with a fundamentally sound , yet somewhat limited player.

      My prime reservation relating to Cole’s relatively gaudy advanced metrics is they were mostly compiled during extensive garbage time. But this crew will give him a chance to fly, IMO …….

    26. I agree, Cole will get his shot this year. If the Knicks can get off to a hot start they could win 45, if not they can win 35. I think they’ll be a much better team by the end of the year than at the beginning once they get established in their new offense and hopefully get better on team defense. That will make it worth watching.

    27. No more Calderon tonight. Strained calf.

      Maybe Cole can get a shot running the offense. Point-Center, you heard it here first kids.

    28. That was with Tyson Chandler having a negative +/-

      LOL, nah.

      Sweet fadeawy from Dalembert. Didn’t know he had it in him

    29. I can’t wait to hear the first person who says that the Knicks are doing poorly because of injuries to Bargs and Outlaw. I just hope I’m drinking milk at the time so I can shoot it out of my nose.

    30. The offense, despite a few ugly one-on-one moments, is already so much more enjoyable to watch than last year. The defense is just terrible. Travis Wear might be one of our top defenders, which is just silly. TH2 is just Godawful, even worse than Amar’e. There’s no way you can play both those guys at the same time. Because of the defensive problems, you can’t really afford to give Bargs even spot minutes. You need Cole/Dalembert/Acy to log a lot of post minutes. Maybe you can have a few minutes with that small lineup where Amar’e is the center. Plus it sounds like Jason Smith will be getting minutes.

    31. I want Shump to have a bounce back year as much as anyone, but he just seems so clueless on the offensive end. Nothing comes naturally, he doesn’t seem to have a go to move to shake his defender, and he usually just ends up dribbling a couple of times and then passing the ball. And when he does shoot, well, tonight he’s 1-8.

      I’m still hopeful, but the signs aren’t that positive.

    32. The defense still stinks, ya’ll.

      Impossible. For the defense to stink, it would have to exist – which it clearly does not. Ergo, the area around the Knicks basket tonight was pristine: tasteless colorless and odorless.

    33. Yeah maybe starting Amare Stoudemire at center wasn’t such a great call… or you know having a team with Calderon, Stat, and THJr.

    34. “My goal this year is to become a better defensive player and be known as a defensive player”

      -Amare

      I think he’s had one wine bath too many

    35. Herring had an excellent observation. The Knicks’ defense has been shitty all preseason and they have yet to actually play a team whose starting point guard was playing in the game (including today). That’s, you know, not good.

    36. Well the prior three games they gave up 80, 81, and 77 so it’s not like they’d been terrible on that end of the court until tonight. That said, yeah, they’re probably going to be awful defensively this year.

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