Knicks Morning News (2014.09.29)

  • [New York Daily News] Knicks Insider: Expectations rising with Derek Fisher (Mon, 29 Sep 2014 03:38:26 GMT)

    The Knicks believe their win total last season should have fallen somewhere between their totally disappointing final number (37) and the 54 they posted one year earlier in winning the Atlantic Division.

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    Mike Kurylo

    Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

    18 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2014.09.29)”

    1. Melo looks like he’s taken PR classes over the offseason.

      @IanBegley: Carmelo Anthony: “I kind of forced my way to New York and I have some unfinished business to take care of.”

      Best to take the criticism head on re: what it cost the team to get him here.

    2. Donnie Walsh September 25, 2014 at 9:34 pm
      And Mark Price put up a few GOTME consideration seasons, too. He was a great PG that is barely ever talked about anymore.

      I loved that team. Daugherty, Price, Ron Harper, Larry Nance, Hot Rod Williams, Craig Ehlo. Agree, they were a championship caliber team that ran into a few insurmountable obstacles. (More so than the Knicks of that era? Maybe.)

      Seems I missed some nice chatter about early 90’s basketball last week.

      One thing that always saddened me (from a missed opportunity perspective) was the Knicks and Cavs always missed each other in the playoffs. It’s just weird and unfortunate that Jordan’s two biggest conference competitors in the early 90’s never squared off against each other. Would have been a great series. I’m obviously biased but I think we were better than those Cavs teams, who were perceived at the time to be very soft.

    3. There surely is a team who would gladly take Bargs: Philadelphia. His contract would help them reaching the salary floor. Maybe something like this: Bargs, Larkin and a 2015 second rounder for a heavily protected 2017 Phila second rounder. But then again: why should we? Bargs contract expires next summer, and we should treasure every pick we have.
      The only scenario where I see something like that happening is if we storm out of the gates like madmen, like, say, 18-2 and Bargs is not playing and disrupting the team’s chemistry. Highly unlikely.

      Farfa, that’s a brilliant idea. Not only would Bargnani help them reach the salary floor, but he’d help them tank, too. Philly should be all over this.

      They’re way too smart to give up anything of any value, but still.

    4. The 90’s Knicks toughness was both a blessing and a curse. It was partly a mask to cover up the fact that they weren’t really all that good at the game of basketball.

      The 1990’s Pacers and the 1990’s Heat teams gave the Knicks all they could handle. And neither of those teams were ever as good as the 1992 Cavs.

      The Cavs had 3 starters with +.200 WS/48. The Knicks, Pacers, and Heat never had more than 1 in the 90s. Only the ’96 Bulls did it, as far as I can tell (the 2002 Mavs had Dirk, Nash, and Bradley all +.200, but I think Bradley came off the bench for most of that season).

      Defensively, the ’92 Cavs were 11th in the league. They weren’t a great rebounding team, but they played at a pace fit for their roster, were 2nd in offensive rating, led the league in FT shooting, and hardly ever turned the ball over (like, all-time great in that category at that time).

      If the ’92 Cavs had faces the Knicks, I’d take the Cavs in 6.

    5. I predict that Bargs will play steady minutes this year and will have a relatively good year (for him). There are two reasons for this. One, it’s a contract year. It seems it’s an iron clad rule in the NBA that players do better in contract years and put up more marketable numbers than usual. Two, he is best at mid range shots and he might get quite a few of them in the triangle offense. I doubt he can put up good numbers from an advanced stats point of view, so it will be interesting to see what sort of market there is for him if he puts up volume numbers.

      On the bright side, my predictions in this forum are almost always wrong. This one could be too.

    6. The 90?s Knicks toughness was both a blessing and a curse. It was partly a mask to cover up the fact that they weren’t really all that good at the game of basketball.

      Umm…

      I think you mean they weren’t the most efficient offensive team. Because they were extremely good at the game of basketball. They were one of the greatest defensive teams in NBA history, and in ’92 & ’93 they mounted the biggest challenge that one of basketball’s greatest teams of all time ever faced.

      The ’90’s Pacers were extremely good, too, by the way. Not sure why beating them in 7 games is mark of weakness. The best team the Cavs ever beat was a Celtic team with a washed up big 3. In 7 games.

    7. If I had to guess, I would say in ’92 a Knicks-Cavs series would either go to the Knicks in 6, or go 7 games and could go either way. Cavs in 6 is almost impossible for me to imagine. I concede the Cavs were the better team in the regular season that year, though, thanks to that horrendous late-season skid that cost us the Atlantic. But the Knicks that we would come to know emerged in the ’92 playoffs. By ’93 we were demonstrably better than Cleveland and would have dismissed them in 4 or 5 games.

      And the reason people think those Cavs teams were soft? Just look at how those pretty WS/48 numbers dropped in the playoffs (Brad held up the best, the other two, though…):

      Daugherty: .213 > .190
      Price: .205 > .139
      Nance: .204 > .134

      You’re assuming a ’92 Cavs team would’ve played to its regular season level. You shouldn/’t

    8. I think the ’92 Cavs vs the ’93 Knicks would be a great series. A consolation game between the two best Jordan era also-rans.

      The ’92 Knicks weren’t very good. I had season tickets that year and they were a frustrating bunch that never really clicked except for during a few games in the second round (the ones we all remember!). They played the Bulls physically, and with a lot of heart, but the Bulls controlled the series after game 1, and ended up winning game 7 by something like 30 points. Granted, the Cavs didn’t even make it to game 7, but I they were a historically disciplined team that would have played up to the up-and-down Knicks that year.

      (ps– when I say the Knicks weren’t very good at basketball, yes, they were a great defensive team, but that defense is illegal in today’s game because it doesn’t make any sense in basketball to be able to molest opponents, both in the paint and out at the 3 point arc– in the words of our own Phil Jackson: “The Knicks are nothing but thugs and football players”.)

    9. Was just watching the NBA channel and they did a quick feature on the Knicks. They had a depth chart for all 5 positions and for C they listed Dalembert, Bargnani and K-Mart. No mention of Cole. They didn’t have Outlaw either and had Thanasis as a 3rd string forward. Sloppy work by NBA TV…I hope!

    10. Cavs circa 1992 were an awesome team. Many players experience a dropoff in WS48 in the playoffs, which makes sense considering the higher level of competition and slower pace. They had a balanced team with size and skill at all 3 forward positions. Daugherty could hold his own with the other great C’s from that day. Craig Ehlo was very good, just couldn’t match up with Jordan.

    11. It was media day today! Baseball is done in NY and Basketball starts!

      Some things I got out of watching the various videos…

      Carmelo Anthony is truly excited about the triangle and I think that’s actually why he came back … Tim Hardaway felt the mental grind last year … Cleanthony is a native NYer…Shump realized that he’s 24, playing in NY. How can life be bad? … Stat wants to start and thinks that his play at the end of the season is proof he should … JR thinks the Knicks have a great 3-man rotation at the shooting guard position and sees them playing together too … Jason Smith says that many coaches have told him that the triangle is a perfect fit for the game

    12. @Hubert

      Philly has no reason to trade for Bargnani outside of tanking. There is no effective punishment for being under the salary floor; the team just has to pay the difference to their players. So, if a team were $5M under the salary floor all they do is pay $5M split between the players on the team. There’s basically no way any team is going to trade for Bargnani unless we throw in a sweetener or take back a worse contract (Rudy Gay?)

    13. Philly has no reason to trade for Bargnani outside of tanking. There is no effective punishment for being under the salary floor; the team just has to pay the difference to their players. So, if a team were $5M under the salary floor all they do is pay $5M split between the players on the team. There’s basically no way any team is going to trade for Bargnani unless we throw in a sweetener or take back a worse contract (Rudy Gay?)

      Not true.

      If the 76ers trade for Bargnani right before the trade deadline for a super protected 2nd round pick it would put them above the salary floor even though they wouldn’t have too pay Bargs’ entire salary. This would actually save them money.

    14. Question is what purpose would it serve to give away a pick to trade Bargnani?
      You can just tell him to stay home if we didn’t want him around the team. That doesn’t cost anything but what Dolan was already expecting to spend on the team.

      The only reason we would’ve had to trade Bargnani would be to get far enough under the apron so that we could use the full MLE on someone in the FA signing period, which is essentially over.

      Neither Phil nor Fish have any investment at all in Bargnani. If he sucks in the Triangle and can’t function in whatever defensive scheme they cook up, he’ll sit. They definitely will not be caught up in “The East is Big” and shoehorn him in there.

    15. Donnie, I’m just thinking that I can’t imagine the ’92 Cavs beating the Knicks in less games than it took the ’92 Bulls.

      I also remember that series much differently than you. Games 3 & 4 were quite even, and were split, so I don’t know how the Bulls were in control. And we played our best game of the series in game 6, blowing them out in the 4th quarter.

    16. Philly has no reason to trade for Bargnani outside of tanking.

      Yeah, I know, I just thought tanking would be a great reason to acquire Bargnani. That should be his role for the rest of his career: improving the lottery odds of the teams he is on by playing.

    17. Even for tanking, there are probably easier ways to do it. This is a contract year for Bargnani and he has a lot of incentive to perform. I say play him some and see what happens. If he looks good, then he’s very tradeable because of his expiring contract. Remember that the whole team was dysfunctional last year, it wasn’t just Bargnani. Guard play was particularly bad. Better team play on the part of the Knicks will make everyone seem to be better than they seemed last year.

    18. yes, they were a great defensive team, but that defense is illegal in today’s game because it doesn’t make any sense in basketball to be able to molest opponents, both in the paint and out at the 3 point arc– in the words of our own Phil Jackson: “The Knicks are nothing but thugs and football players

      Yeah, I’m not buying any of this.

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