Knicks Morning News (2013.12.15)

  • [New York Daily News] Woodson, J.R. day get into heated exchange before one-shot night (Sun, 15 Dec 2013 06:50:02 GMT)

    J.R. Smith’s self-imposed freeze-out during Friday’s loss to the Boston Celtics came one day after Smith and head coach Mike Woodson exchanged heated words following Wednesday’s win over the Chicago Bulls, the Daily News has learned.    

  • [New York Daily News] Melo goes off while J.R. sees bench in Knicks’ win over Hawks (Sun, 15 Dec 2013 06:48:28 GMT)

    Mike Woodson got his head coaching start with the Atlanta Hawks, establishing himself as an affable presence while increasing his team’s win total each year. So it was a little eerie that with Woodson’s latest team, the Knicks in total disarray and rumors of his demise in full swing, the Hawks were in town, perhaps to put the finishing touches on his coaching career here.    

  • [New York Daily News] Knicks Insider: K-Mart out indefinitely with abdominal strain (Sun, 15 Dec 2013 06:36:55 GMT)

    Kenyon Martin missed Saturday’s win over Atlanta due to a strained abdominal muscle and is out indefinitely, Knicks coach Mike Woodson said.    

  • [New York Daily News] Lawrence: Dolan solo act may ruin show (Sun, 15 Dec 2013 06:22:45 GMT)

    Carmelo Anthony remembered to impose his will in the fourth quarter, J.R. Smith got to see it all from the bench over the last 14-plus minutes and Kyle Lowry is still a Toronto Raptor.    

  • [New York Daily News] The Score: Hey Dolan, let’s mix things up a bit (Sun, 15 Dec 2013 04:39:12 GMT)

    Could Henrik Lundqvist become the defensive stopper Mike Woodson’s been searching for? Is it possible Carmelo Anthony can rescue the Rangers offense from the doldrums they call home?    

  • [ – New York Knicks] Woody 'desperately' needs J.R. to step up (Sun, 15 Dec 2013 00:23:29 EDT)

    NEW YORK — As the final minutes of the New York Knicks’ win over the Atlanta Hawks ticked away on Saturday, J.R. Smith sat on the bench with a blank look on his face. “I’m just not playing the way that I wanted to,” Smith said after going 1-for-8 in 24 minutes and being benched in the fourth quarter against the Hawks. Smith hit his third attempt of the game but then went scoreless in his final 21 minutes on the court. He has just two points in his past two games combined.

  • [New York Times] Duncan Has 22 and 12 as Spurs Beat Jazz 100-84 (Sun, 15 Dec 2013 05:40:55 GMT)

    Now that Tim Duncan is playing well again, the last thing he wants to do is sit.    

  • [New York Times] James Scores 25 as Heat Hold Off Cavs, 114-107 (Sun, 15 Dec 2013 05:25:55 GMT)

    LeBron James and the Miami Heat benefited from their three-day break, beginning a five-game homestand with a hard-fought win over a pesky opponent.    

  • [New York Times] Trail Blazers Hit 21 3s in 139-105 Win Over 76ers (Sun, 15 Dec 2013 05:02:11 GMT)

    The Portland Trail Blazers nearly shot their way into the NBA record book.    

  • [New York Times] Mavs Beat Bucks 106-93 Without Nowitzki, Carlisle (Sun, 15 Dec 2013 04:22:55 GMT)

    Brandan Wright led Dallas with 19 points in his season debut, Jose Calderon scored 18 and the Mavericks shrugged off the absence of Dirk Nowitzki and coach Rick Carlisle to beat the Milwaukee Bucks 106-93 Saturday night.    

  • [New York Times] N.B.A. Roundup: James Helps Heat Hold Off Cavaliers (Sun, 15 Dec 2013 04:21:37 GMT)

    LeBron James scored 25 points against his former team, leading the host Miami Heat to a victory over the Cleveland Cavaliers.    

  • [New York Times] Knicks 111, Hawks 106: No Rest for Stoudemire; No Regrets for Knicks (Sun, 15 Dec 2013 04:18:14 GMT)

    With limited options, Mike Woodson rolled the dice with his star Amar’e Stoudemire, who is still recovering from knee surgery.    

  • [New York Times] Lowry, Valanciunas Lead Raptors Past Bulls, 99-77 (Sun, 15 Dec 2013 04:16:59 GMT)

    Kyle Lowry scored 16 points, Jonas Valanciunas added 15 points and 11 rebounds, and the Toronto Raptors beat the Chicago Bulls 99-77 Saturday night.    

  • [New York Times] Bryant Scores 21 Points, Lakers Top Bobcats 88-85 (Sun, 15 Dec 2013 03:35:08 GMT)

    This was more like the Kobe Bryant the Los Angeles Lakers are accustomed to seeing.    

  • [New York Times] Anthony Scores 35, Knicks Beat Hawks 111-106 (Sun, 15 Dec 2013 03:19:47 GMT)

    Carmelo Anthony scored 35 points, Andrea Bargnani added 23 and the New York Knicks pulled away in the fourth quarter to beat the Atlanta Hawks 111-106 on Saturday night.    

  • [New York Times] Clippers Wrap Up Trip With 113-97 Win Over Wizards (Sun, 15 Dec 2013 02:43:54 GMT)

    Chris Paul had 38 points and 12 assists, and the Los Angeles Clippers shared the ball impeccably Saturday night as they wrapped up a tougher-than-it-should’ve-been East Coast road trip with a 113-97 win over the Washington Wizards.    

  • [New York Post] Take a seat, J.R. Smith (Sun, 15 Dec 2013 01:25:29 -0500)

    On the Knicks' first possession Saturday night against the Hawks at the Garden, J.R. Smith lofted a short jumper that barely reached the front of the rim. Two minutes later,…

  • [New York Post] J.R. Smith hits the bench after shooting ‘boycott’ (Sun, 15 Dec 2013 01:19:50 -0500)

    Knicks coach Mike Woodson got his revenge on J.R. Smith for staging what appeared to be a shooting boycott in Boston. He benched him. Smith sat the final 14:40 Saturday…

  • [New York Post] Knicks ditch orange in solid win over Hawks (Sun, 15 Dec 2013 00:24:03 -0500)

    No orange? No problem. The Knicks, in ditching their jinxed weekend orange uniforms, finally owned the fourth quarter as they defeated the red-clad Hawks, 111-106, at the Garden. White on!…

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    32 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2013.12.15)”

    1. So JR has words with the coach, then pouts with a Kobe-like “no shooting” game, but is then rewarded with a starting spot for the Atlanta game (in which he plays terribly and pouts even more). As I mentioned last night:

      Jr. > JR

    2. Ah..JR! I know coaches sometimes have contentious relationships with players. Hell..they’re supposed to! JVG/Starks was a volatile combo but they got along and ultimately they both were better for it. I think JVG reveres Starks because through those ‘conditions’ Starks would run through a wall for coach and for the most part performed at a high level. An I think Starks reveres JVG because his coaching and sometimes heavy handedness brought the best out in Starks. It worked. Last season, Woodson’s handling of JR brought the best out in him and made him a much better player..until a few circuits in JR’s head shorted out and JR went haywire. For some reason JR doesn’t see the positive effect Woodson ha on JR and it’s becoming more evident that JR’s not wired to pull the positives out and build on them. If the report of JR’s ‘insubordination’ is even half true, then this most likely is the beginning of the end of JR as a Knick. Which would kinda be bittersweet for me. I’ve been an advocate for moving JR all season for equal parts his cavalier antics when we already have a bonafide swashbuckler in Melo, and because he is crazy talented and we SHOULD be able to fetch something good for him. True, Melo breaks the offense more than enough (as he should be able to from time to time as the undoubtedly best player and deserving of it ) but still plays more for the team than JR. But I don’t wanna see JR go down like that. I do like him, I’m just not sure he’s a great or reliable fit for this team. I think a player of his talent should be more willing to play Pippen to Melo’s Jordan. He should have the utmost confidence in his abilities but he should also know he’s not better at scoring than Melo. He should also have confidence that the team will need him to carry a heavy load even with Melo out there..but the coach dictated that. Not JR.

    3. Kik, I can dig it. JR’s acting like he’s the franchise player. At least when Kobe did it he was able to carry a team. But JR’s a sidekick. Folks talk a lot about whether Melo is batman or robin. But JR’s not even Nightwing..

    4. I was leery of the JR signing even before I knew about his knee or the pot suspension. Winning basketball is still played more from the neck up. JR is incapable of understanding what is needed at a particular moment, he is extremely physically talented but is the antithesis of a heady player. I wasn’t a big Latrell fan either, but he was truly a bargain when we had him, as opposed to the fool’s gold that JR represents. JR is nearly uncoachable in that regard. He’s OK as an energy guy that can play anywhere from sixth man to out of the rotation, but actually depending on him to come through with heady play in the playoffs against well-coached teams is a losing strategy. The key to JR being effective is having a stud PG that limits his downside. We don’t have that.

      I don’t blame JR, I blame Woody and management for thinking we could rely on him and giving him a 3-year deal.

    5. I was way down on the Timmy Jr. pick. I am going to go in and eat crow. He already has the best looking 3pt stroke on the team and has becoming the most exciting to watch on the fast break. He has the athletic tools to be at least an average defender. Really great pickup. If Shump can get his head together, that is a really nice pair of athletes to have in the backcourt rotation.

      JR deserves to sit and if the team is doing well with their PG rotation, Felton shouldn’t just get his job back when he returns from injury.

      The knicks allowed a high percentage of FGs, but they created turnovers and they didn’t foul! So nice not seeing the endless trips to the FT line after lazy hacks at the ball.

    6. Geez..I’m sorry for the typos and grammatically incorrect comments lol..I’m doin this on my iPhone and I desperately need to upgrade so it responds kinda slow.

    7. Good news

      Reuters: NBA announces new expansion team.

      The Pyongyang Dears are the newest member of the Eastern Conference’s Atlantic Division and immediate favorites to win a playoff spot against this season’s unusually weak field. Looking up from his dog eared copy of War and Peace to face the media Dears head coach Dennis Rodman announced his starting lineup for their season opener against the Knicks this Friday: Bob Costas at point guard; Max Von Sydow at the 2 guard; ’80s porn sensation, Italian parliamentarian, and team captain Cicciolina at small forward; Mike Tyson at power forward; and at the 5 a fully decorated Christmas tree with a pile of enticing presents from Dears owner/GM Kim Jong-Un at its base.

      Kim’s savvy first trade came only 2 hours after the team’s entrance into the league was announced late last night. He acquired the Christmas tree in a straight up deal with Macy’s department store for former New York Knick JR Smith, the lone NBA “talent” a last minute donation to the fledgling franchise. A bellicose series of tweets from Kim’s press secretary preceded the team’s official trade announcement this morning: “Rilly? JR #NuclearOptionTrojanHorseHindenberg Smith? Not F ing likely! #CapitalistSh@ForBrains”

      Vegas odds makers increased the Dears’ spread from 12 to 20 over New York after the announcement. It’s unclear what function Smith will serve at the store. A Macy’s spokesperson said the flagging retailer hoped the spirit of self-sacrifice shown by their willingness to accept such a lopsided trade would increase brand loyalty going into this crucial stretch of the holiday shopping season.

    8. JR Smith is not as physically suited for basketball as people think. At least not for the role of a 2nd option. Have you ever seen JR Smith beat somebody off the dribble in a half court set? His 1st step is very slow, and his ball handling isn’t quite slick enough to get past guys. That’s why he takes so many jumpers instead of taking it to the basket.

      He’s not a special basketball athlete. He just used to jump high. Have you seen Tim Hardaway Jr. jump this year? Or Iman Shumpert blow by a defender on his way to dunk on Orlando? JR Smith doesn’t make those kind of plays anymore. He’s just a walking 1 for 8 from the field, and I hate it.

    9. Well now this is interesting.

      The Phoenix Suns are looking to trade one or more draft picks in the 2014 NBA Draft for a proven star player who can make an immediate impact.

      The Suns will have as many as four picks in June’s draft and are not placing them off limits in potential trades.

      “I think one of the things that’s important for people to realize is that we may not draft four players even if we have four picks,” Ryan McDonough said. “Our preference would probably be to maybe package a few of them. We’re obviously all looking for stars and we feel like we can put together a package as good, if not better, than any other team in the league if and when a star becomes available.

      “That’s kind of generally what we’ve wanted to do, not only with our draft-pick situation but also with the cap space that we’ve acquired.”

      If we want to rebuild, there will be teams like this available. You don’t think they’d take a shot at Melo even without a guaranteed resign?

    10. JR is still a great spot up shooter, but you are correct. His handle is not great enough to get to the hoop in traffic or to beat a defender. He can get to the rim off the rotation and is a decent finisher. However, his biggest asset was that he has great athleticism. If the knee injury has taken that away, he should not be on the court. I have no understanding why the Knicks think that having the players go out there injured is a good idea.

    11. JRs a great athlete with a not-great first step and not -great handle. But he’s got nice spin moves and has a great basketball body. I don’t think what we saw last year was a fluke, or that he can’t get back there. I just don’t think his knee is there yet, and I don’t think his brain is able to compensate for or deal with that fact.

      Overall I’m really encouraged with what we’ve seen in the last week+ (ie ever since I went on my mini-rant about blowing the thing up lol). The defense has been much better IMHO other than the helping off Korver the entire third quarter- WTF was that?!?! – but there seems to be much less switching.

      And Melo is hot now. His December numbers are outrageous and he is clearly trying to play within the offense more (his shot attempts are down about 4 per 36). And his TS is well north of 60 this month. And amare really has been a revelation.

    12. JR Smith is a complete ass who plays basketball like it’s a goddamn video game. He gets suspended for drugs, he elbows opponents in the face during playoff games, he parties late at night the night before playoff games, he plays shit defense, he sulks if you tell him not to shoot and then he ironically plays a whole game without shooting just to prove some idiotic point. He has played 4000 minutes with the Knicks and has a .510 TS% in that span, yet you have spend two roster spots on him so his untalented little brother can pretend he’s an NBA player. Oh yeah, and he has a bad knee. Yet STILL he gets 30 mpg for some completely inexplicable reason.

      He’s the WORST. The worst black hole on a team with an awful lot of black holes. I cannot stand him.

    13. I think JR may be more in the right than we make out to be in this case. I saw the Boston game but not the Atlanta game. In the Boston game my thought was JR’s playing pretty smart basketball: he’s letting the game come to him. But the game didn’t actually come to him, so he didn’t score much. I know that’s a strange thing to say about him, but it’s what I saw. From the posts here it sounds like Woodson wanted more ISO play from JR and he got it in the Atlanta game; but it didn’t help much.

    14. THJ is playing very well for a rookie, but his non-shooting stats are below-average. I hope he keeps the shooting up, but if he doesn’t, we’re in for even more losing.

    15. Is there a way to personally message posters? I want to get in contact with Brian Cronin about something.

    16. The Knicks will be better when Tyson Chandler returns. They will be helped if JR Smith returns to last season’s form. But there can be no guarantee that JR has the mental strength or physical ability to do so.

      1. JR needs to take (and make) open 3 point shots.

      2. He cannot take the contested step back jumpers early in the shot clock.

      3. He has to attack the rim when he has the ball in space and in transition.

      4. He has to defend by getting his body in front of penetrating guards.

      I know that it is tempting to want anoint TH Jr. He may be great, but he is a rookie. He is likely to run into the wall at some (possibly several) points during the next 60 games.

    17. Is there a way to personally message posters? I want to get in contact with Brian Cronin about something.

      Just post “For Brian Cronin Only” and the rest of us will know not to read it.

    18. Trades: (this is a convo starter)
      Chandler for Gasol
      Shumpert, Felton, MWP for Lowry
      JR + 2018 unprotected for Asik (might have to add something to this mix)

      End up w:
      Lowry, TH2, Melo, Gasol, Asik – Starting 5
      STAT, Prigs, Udrih, Tyler +++ – would need to find another 2 and 3 off bench

    19. I think Houston would rather trade for something that helps them right now. I know Morey values picks and assets, but he’ll have good offers that help them. Asik for Millsap has been speculated… maybe it will happen if HOU adds something to that.

    20. Amare’s been playing great with all the space to move in the post. What happens when Tyson Chandler comes back and fills that space?

    21. Massive, well actually the good thing about those deals is that there really is nothing left for those guys to take. That’s it as for as desirable assets except for pick swaps and the 2020 pick. If someone wants Beno they can have him. Ha

    22. Is there a way to personally message posters? I want to get in contact with Brian Cronin about something. has an e-mail members function, so you can hit me up there.

    23. Hoolahoop, Amar’e fg percentage dropped by 6, while Chandler’s dropped by nearly 10 when they shared the floor.

      Interestingly, they both rebounded better, especially on offense.

      The Amar’e/Chandler lineups were dominant last year, the best two man combination the Knicks had.'e-Stoudemire|2199,2405;year=201213;season=r

      They weren’t great the year before, however.

      I think with the way Amar’e has become more post-up and rim-oriented, it’s paradoxically improved the pairing.

      They both put so much pressure on the rim and are such good finishers that few teams have the size and athleticism to match-up.

      Amar’e uses those shoulders to get great post-position on a couple of dribbles, and it forces a second big to help. Chandler cleans up, and when he gets crowded Amar’e can do the same on the weakside.

      Now that Chandler is willing to take the elbow jumper, I think the pairing could be even better.

      Amar’e/Chandler/Melo/THJ or Shump/Prigs is probably going to be the Knicks best lineup.

    24. Also you can flip it and give Morey Shumpert (he def needs perimeter D) and give Ujiri the unprotected 2018 pick which is what he wants. Doesn’t matter to us. Same haul.

      Give: Ray, Metta, Chandler, Shumpert, JR, 2018 unprotected

      Get: Asik, Lowry, Gasol

    25. Gasol has not been a very good basketball player this year. .464 TS on 25.8 usg. He has been rebounding well, but has not played great defense. Perhaps some of it is dislike for MDAs offense, but I don’t see why he would be worth giving up Chandler, or even STAT the way they are playing. As of now, it looks like Gasol is going to be fighting for mini MLE money next year.

    26. Maybe we can get LA to take Bargs for Gasol? You don’t think Mike D’Antoni would love him as a floor spacer? I think there’s a deal to be made somewhere with the Lakers.

    27. Why would the knicks trade Tyson to LA only for Gasol when he is the better, younger, and cheaper player. Well he does have another year but the other stuff is true.

      I like Gasol passing ability but he is shooting 41% and looks slower and just old.

    28. Mokers, Gasol will never be fighting for mini-MLE just because he’ll get much more (double easily) than that in Europe.

    29. Maybe we can get LA to take Bargs for Gasol? You don’t think Mike D’Antoni would love him as a floor spacer? I think there’s a deal to be made somewhere with the Lakers.

      Oh man, that would be an interesting trade. I dunno if Gasol would fit at all with Chandler and STAT, but that’d be a heck of a deal and I could almost see the Lakers doing it for the reason you note. Hell, if they do that deal really soon they’d still be able to deal Gasol for someone else, right?

    30. Oops, didn’t see the Pau-for-Bargs talk had already started over here in this thread. Well, I’ll paste what I said in the recap thread:

      Pau and a top-10 protected 1st in 2014 for Bargs, Felton and JR. Who hangs up first?

      Am I crazy thinking the Lakers are desperate enough to get Pau out of town? D’antoni gets some guys you know he’d like and the Lakers get much needed depth.

      If I’m Mills, I don’t even give Dolan time to look into it before I agree. Getting out from under the extra years of Bargs and Ray-Ray and getting into the draft, even later in the round, is worth so much more. But to the Lake Show, it’s just worth getting rid of the Gasol headache.

      Although, JR can’t be traded until next month. Assuming a deal would have to happen sooner rather than later he can be subbed for Metta or any other bench filler. The salaries actually work with just Ray/Bargs, but I included JR because he might still have some value to someone like the Lakers.
      Also isn’t this just the kind of flashy big name move Dolan loves making? The happy accident is that, probably unbeknownst to him, it would help this team long-term.

    31. As I wrote on the other thread, Lakers are barred from trading away their first round pick in 2014, 2016 or 2018 because they already traded away 2015 (to Phoenix for Nash) and 2017 (to Orlando as part of the Dwight Howard swap).

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