Knicks Morning News (2013.11.26)

  • [New York Times] Trail Blazers 102, Knicks 91: Knicks Drop Sixth Straight, Falling in Portland (Tue, 26 Nov 2013 07:53:42 GMT)

    The Trail Blazers took an early 22-point lead and responded to every run from the Knicks, who were led by Carmelo Anthony’s 34 points and 15 rebounds.    

  • [New York Times] Blazers Beat Knicks 102-91 for 11th Straight Win (Tue, 26 Nov 2013 06:42:31 GMT)

    LaMarcus Aldridge believes the key to the Trail Blazers’ early success this season is chemistry.    

  • [New York Times] Roundup: Lakers Finalize Deal With Bryant With Eye on 2014 Free Agents (Tue, 26 Nov 2013 05:20:26 GMT)

    Kobe Bryant and the Los Angeles Lakers finalized a two-year contract extension that all but ensures he will end his career with the team.    

  • [New York Times] Burke, Jazz Beat Rose-Less Bulls, 89-83 in OT (Tue, 26 Nov 2013 05:18:54 GMT)

    Trey Burke made a key 3-pointer to help the Utah Jazz outlast Chicago 89-83 in overtime Monday night — the Bulls’ first game since learning Derrick Rose would again be lost for the season.    

  • [New York Times] Lawson, Robinson Lead Nuggets Past Mavs 110-96 (Tue, 26 Nov 2013 04:39:40 GMT)

    Ty Lawson had 19 points after a quiet start, Nate Robinson scored 11 straight for Denver in the fourth quarter and the Nuggets beat Dallas 110-96 Monday night, their second win over the Mavericks in three days.    

  • [New York Times] James Gets 35, Heat Top Suns 107-92 (Tue, 26 Nov 2013 04:30:42 GMT)

    LeBron James was even more efficient than usual, which says plenty. Dwayne Wade attacked early, distributed late and capped his night with a pair of cartwheels.    

  • [New York Times] Ginobli Scores 16, Leads Spurs Over Pelicans (Tue, 26 Nov 2013 04:18:33 GMT)

    Manu Ginobili had 16 points to lead seven players in double figures and the San Antonio Spurs beat the New Orleans Pelicans 112-93 on Monday night for their 11th straight victory.    

  • [New York Times] AP Sources: Wolves Trading Williams to Kings (Tue, 26 Nov 2013 04:12:35 GMT)

    Derrick Williams has been the subject of trade rumors practically since the Minnesota Timberwolves drafted him with the second overall pick in 2011.    

  • [New York Times] Pacers Roll Past Timberwolves 98-84 to Go 13-1 (Tue, 26 Nov 2013 03:54:29 GMT)

    The Pacers aren’t letting anybody keep up with the Georges.    

  • [New York Times] Rockets Rally for 93-86 Win Over Grizzlies (Tue, 26 Nov 2013 03:46:02 GMT)

    Chandler Parsons scored 17 points, Omri Casspi added 16 and the Houston Rockets overcame a double-digit deficit to beat the Memphis Grizzlies 93-86 on Monday night.    

  • [New York Times] Jennings, Pistons Rout Bucks 113-94 (Tue, 26 Nov 2013 03:27:40 GMT)

    Brandon Jennings made four consecutive 3-pointers in the first quarter against his former team, and the Detroit Pistons overwhelmed Milwaukee with a dazzling first half in a 113-94 victory over the Bucks on Monday night.    

  • [New York Times] Crawford, Wallace Lift Celtics Over Bobcats 96-86 (Tue, 26 Nov 2013 02:51:48 GMT)

    Jordan Crawford had 21 points, reserve Gerald Wallace added a season-high 17 points and the Boston Celtics beat the Charlotte Bobcats 96-86 Monday night for their second straight victory.    

  • [New York Times] Chicago Bulls Star Derrick Rose Out for Season (Tue, 26 Nov 2013 02:48:24 GMT)

    Derrick Rose’s comeback turned out to be a cameo, and the Chicago Bulls’ worst nightmare became a reality again.    

  • [New York Times] To Offset Risks Inside, Blazers Star Improves His Outside Shooting (Tue, 26 Nov 2013 02:41:42 GMT)

    Playing point guard in the N.B.A. is a physically demanding job, and Damian Lillard knew he needed ways to preserve his career.    

  • [New York Times] Bulls’ Rose to Miss Another Year After Knee Injury (Tue, 26 Nov 2013 02:13:19 GMT)

    After missing all of the 2012-13 season while he recovered from an injury to his left knee, Rose now finds his 2013-14 season over after just 10 games.    

  • [ – New York Knicks] Opening Tip: Trade rumors sinking Shump? (Tue, 26 Nov 2013 06:00:42 EDT)

    Monday’s loss to Portland left the Knicks with plenty of questions about the team’s present — and it’s future. One of the most pressing is this: What’s up with Iman Shumpert?Shumpert struggled mightily on Monday, going scoreless in 23 minutes. He went 0-for-3 from the field, had two turnovers and a steal. The Knicks were outscored by 22 when Shumpert was on the floor. In the seven games prior to Monday, Shumpert was shooting just 36 percent from the field.

  • [ – New York Knicks] Rapid Reaction: Blazers 102, Knicks 91 (Tue, 26 Nov 2013 00:38:49 EDT)

    The New York Knicks look like a team that’s tanking. Problem is, they don’t have a pick in next year’s draft. So they can’t use that as an excuse. They lost 102-91 to the Blazers on Monday, their sixth straight defeat. They haven’t loss six straight since March 2012, when Mike D’Antoni was coaching the team. They have dropped seven of their past eight games and are just 3-10, tied with the Brooklyn Nets for last place in the Atlantic Division.

  • [New York Post] Knicks fall to Blazers as losing skid hits six (Tue, 26 Nov 2013 00:51:39 -0500)

    PORTLAND — Mike Woodson's first win as Knicks interim head coach was a blowout over the Blazers on March 14th, 2012. Woodson hasn't beaten them since. Woodson lost his third…

  • [New York Newsday] Knicks fall to Portland, 102-91, for sixth straight loss (Tue, 26 Nov 2013 01:51:41 EST)

    PORTLAND, Ore. — Carmelo Anthony admitted the losing is wearing on him, and you could see the frustration and despair in his teammates. You could hear it in their words, too.

  • [New York Newsday] A joking Mike Woodson wants to punch panic out of J.R. Smith (Tue, 26 Nov 2013 01:57:21 EST)

    PORTLAND, Ore. — The losing hasn't affected Mike Woodson's sense of humor. At least he seemed to be joking.

  • [New York Daily News] Worst Coast: Knicks start west swing with loss to Blazers, now 3-10 (Tue, 26 Nov 2013 06:33:33 GMT)

    The frustration and anger surfaced early in the evening when Amar’e Stoudemire, watching a replay of the Trail Blazers recent win at Golden State, admonished a locker room attendant for turning on the Monday Night Football game. “We don’t need that,” Stoudemire said. “We’ve lost five straight.”    

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    Mike Kurylo

    Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

    40 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2013.11.26)”

    1. on the bright side, only 3 teams in the East are at .500 or better right now.

      Miami and Indiana combined have as many wins as the Atlantic division.

    2. By my count the East is 19-46 against the West currently. Miami and Indy are 3-0 and nobody else has a winning record. It’s just crazy how unbalanced the conferences are.

    3. By my count the East is 19-46 against the West currently. Miami and Indy are 3-0 and nobody else has a winning record. It’s just crazy how unbalanced the conferences are.

      Yet another reason why hard to believe Melo would sign with Lakers if winning a chip is truly a priority. Many WC teams are likely to remain strong for a minimum of next 2 years (aka Melo’s prime): OKC/Spurs/Houston/Clippers/GSW. In contrast, hard to imagine ECF teams getting that much better since most of the top players are under contract for awhile and top draft picks take some time before they make a real impact. Heat will likely become more vulnerable (Battier/Allen aging/retiring plus Wade’s deteriorating health). Only Pacers look really solid but luxury tax will likely hit them especially hard limiting their future flexibility. (BTW same logic applies to LBJ signing with Lakers)

    4. I haven’t really looked into it but my gut feeling is that a top player’s prime is generally 27-32 I know you will cite some study showing that players start to deteriorate after the age of 25 but it’s just not a matter of raw athleticism. Experience matters! Top players in that age range make better decisions, make better leaders, know their strengths and limitations, and so on.

    5. @Zanzibar

      I agree that the way things are shaping up, summer 2014 is going to look worse thank spring 2011 for Melo in terms of fulfilling even two of his three likely priorities (contending, playing in a top market, making the max). Even assuming he’s willing to sacrifice the max and take a four year contract, the Lakers, Clippers and Nets all either won’t be contending or won’t have cap space to sign him.

      That means his only options will be to request a trade, to stay with New York (perhaps opting in for his last year), or sign in a smaller market. Dallas is probably his best option right now from among teams with cap space unless a team like Philly, Boston or Orlando moves some contracts and makes a play for Melo and Lebron. I’m not sure Lala would be very happy in Dallas.

      That leaves the “demand a trade to a big market part 2” option, in which case at least the Knicks would be able to get something in return. The only team though that would make sense, barring the Nets turning things around (in which case I think Dolan would rather just play hardball and see if Melo walks), is the Clippers, who don’t have much to offer a rebuilding team but could at least offer picks. They have all of theirs except for 2015, which they gave up for Doc Rivers.

      Then there’s the option where he stays, in which case we’d have to live through a Dwight Howard’s last year in Orlando type deal, which wouldn’t be good for any party.

    6. In regard to the question about players’ primes, yes, I believe win shares suggest that a player’s prime is 24-27. It shifts later for bigger players, especially centers, who I think are in their primes for more like 26-30. Years in the league also definitely play a role as they contribute to wear and tear on a player, and Anthony has been in the league since he was 19.

      If you look at non-center (or forward/center) stars who have won titles since the Jordan Bulls ended their reign, you get the following list (ages when championship won in parentheses):

      Kobe Bryant (21, 22, 23, 30, 31)
      Manu Ginobili (25, 27, 29, 31)
      Tony Parker (20, 22, 24, 26)
      Rip Hamilton (25)
      Chauncey Billups (27)
      Dwyane Wade (23, 30, 31)
      Paul Pierce (30)
      Ray Allen (32)
      Rondo (21)
      Lebron James (27, 28)

      So you have no one over 32 (which Melo will turn at the end of the 15/16 season, in the 1st or 2nd year of his new contract), and if you look at the guys in their 30s, they all were surrounded by other extremely talented players. Wade had Lebron and Allen and Pierce had each other plus Rondo and Garnett.

      I think it’s true that some players age more gracefully, especially big players, but I think what works against guys in their 30s as much as physical decline is the salary structure — if a guy takes those max raises every season, his max salary as a 14 year veteran is double what his max salary was as a 4 year veteran, which prevents his team from putting talent around him. That’s why Kobe is making more than double what James Harden is this year, despite both being on max contracts.

    7. Max – That’s an interesting point about salaries working against aging stars.

      I really don’t understand how anyone could think signing Melo to a max extension is a good idea. I seriously can’t fathom it. The Kobe re-signing is also baffling to me, given the fact he may never be effective again, and frankly wasn’t that effective before the injury.

      From what I can tell, the really efficient use of cap money in the league right now is in resigning young stars you drafted – or signing Lebron. Which further underscores the ridiculous approach the Knicks have taken to their draft picks.

    8. I’m curious to see what the Spurs do over the next few years. Manu and Parker are all but done, and I could see them giving Leonard $12M a year with the opportunity to play for a 60-win team every year from 23-28.

    9. I don’t know if Parker is done quite yet. Put forth some pretty good numbers last year. This year too. But it will be very interesting to see how they replace that core.

      I do love Kawhi Leonard. And I love they traded up for him. It is possible to draft players in the teens who turn into stars. Hasn’t happened to the Knicks in a long time. I honestly can’t think of when it’s ever happened. Lee I guess at the end of the draft….

    10. Judging by the way we have played so far, I find it hard to believe that Melo will take a pay-cut to stay in NY. So this means we should trade him, but we won’t. We will end up with Melo for a max extension, or lose him for nothing.

    11. The Clippers have the #2 offense in the league and the best point guard on the planet, so there should be a whole new batch of humiliating GIFs by the time this game is in the books.

      Oakley wept.

    12. From the nyt today, I feel the work of Jon abbey….

      The band plays a mixture of blues and rock. In 2011, The New York Times’ pop music critic, Jon Pareles, described Dolan as a “karaoke-grade singer.” Dolan’s son, Aidan, plays guitar in the band. But the other band members are seasoned musicians who have played with Bob Dylan, Aretha Franklin and Bon Jovi, among others.
      Dolan’s moonlighting gigs are hardly a secret in the basketball world, although the fact he was playing in N.B.A. arenas this past weekend, and not some small New York club, would probably catch any number of people by surprise, including a lot of people who root for the Knicks. One of those fans, apparently, has hijacked the Wikipedia page for Dolan’s band, renaming songs with titles like “Can’t Make the Knicks Win,” “Wasting Knicks Fans Time,” “Reunion with Isiah in Hell” and “Try Selling the Knicks

    13. Tonight would be a good game for Shumpy to awake from his stupor. Really hard to believe that a bonafide NBA player could be on the court for 23 minutes and not record a single point, rebound or assist. He did make the box score though, with 1 steal, 2 turnovers and 3 fouls.

      I hope Woody’s heart to heart has some impact, although I’m not optimistic given their relationship up to this point.

    14. It’s amazing what an inflection point last year’s ECSF vs Indiana is shaping up to be.

      The Pacers found their identity, Hibbert and George ascended, and when the new season began, they kept up their all-star level play and seem to be balling with a focus and intensity that you would expect from a true contender.

      Meanwhile, the Knicks who acted like they belonged on the playoff stage — Melo, Shump, Felton — have all regressed visibly. Melo’s pretty much doing what he does, but holy Christ, what happened to Iman?

      This is the Knicks being ever-snakebit. We find good players and their development stalls. For once, I’d like to have a young guy who actually “takes the next step.”

      Of course, you have to have young guys for that to happen, and after Shump, the cupboard be bare.

      This is shaping up to be the most depressing Knicks season ever. I am dreading the Clippers game. Tiny bit of hope they start to turn it around somewhere, but mostly just wondering when I shelve them completely.

    15. One good thing, because they’re so bad right now I don’t have any incentive to miss sleep when they’re on the west coast.

    16. It’s pretty brutal watching the worst defensive team in the NBA night after night. It’s brutal watching the dumbest player in the NBA, JR Smith, do dumb things on a nightly basis. It’s brutal watching Amar’e Stoudemire and realizing he’s on a max contract. It’s brutal watching the point guard stylings of Ray Felton and Benoit Udrih and realizing Jeremy Lin and his .644 TS% could have been our point guard right now. It’s brutal to watch the flailing, inept GIF-generating defensive play of Andrea Bargnani. And it’s brutal to know that next season is even more fucked than this one.

      Dark times, friends. Dark times.

    17. The Clippers have the #2 offense in the league and the best point guard on the planet, so there should be a whole new batch of humiliating GIFs by the time this game is in the books.

      Oakley wept.

      I’m sure it’s going to be ugly on the defensive side of the ball, but I’m hoping that we can at least get the offense going. The Clips are no great shakes on D themselves, and the game should be a pretty wide open shootout. I think a few open looks could do a world of good for JR and Shump especially.

    18. This is the Knicks being ever-snakebit. We find good players and their development stalls. For once, I’d like to have a young guy who actually “takes the next step.”

      Well, we had a young PG not too long ago who ” took the next step”, but we didn’t want to pay him as much as we wanted to pay Ray Felton, so he had to leave.

      (Regarding Shump, remember, he was a bad college player, so it’s possible that the “stat” guys were right to be bearish on him from the beginning.)

    19. Knicks always play up to tough teams, but they lack cohesion to carry through.
      The Lin narrative defies my sunk costs arguments of the past. It’s hard knowing how much better Lin is compared to Ray. I actually try not to watch the Rockets because I can’t stand it. He still has turnover issues, but he attacks with both hands now and is a better shooter.

    20. Shump’s decline is all about the trade rumors. He’s a emotional guy (remember his reaction when the Knicks drafted him?) and it’s clearly affecting his play.

    21. 18. tastycakes
      November 27, 2013 at 10:35 am
      It’s amazing what an inflection point last year’s ECSF vs Indiana is shaping up to be.

      And the inflection point within the ECSF was Hibbert’s block of Carmelo Anthony’s attempted dunk with 5:05 left in the 4th quarter. If Carmelo throws that ball down, the Knicks are up 94-90 and likely to take the series back to NY for Game 7. Instead, Indiana runs off 9 straight points and the series ends.

    22. I’d love to be able to cheer us all up, but I have this nagging thought.

      What happens if the Knicks miss the playoffs and Denver uses our lottery pick to draft a player that turns out to be better than Melo in this deep and strong draft class?

      Aside from wanting to shoot myself, NY will be the laughing stock of the NBA for decades.

    23. As big of a bummer as this season has been, I think if Woody would just PLAY OUR BEST PLAYERS more, we would at least be at our around .500. That means 30-plus minutes for Melo, Shump, Pablo, Kmart, Amare. Sit Meta, JR, and only play Bargs against scrubs. It’s that easy.

    24. What happens if the Knicks miss the playoffs and Denver uses our lottery pick to draft a player that turns out to be better than Melo in this deep and strong draft class?

      This is the stock answer.

      But maybe this is more appropriate.

      The risk with giving up an unprotected pick is that it could be Lebron. That was the risk the Knicks took when they gave up that package.

    25. Ess-dog wrote:

      That means 30-plus minutes for Melo, Shump, Pablo, Kmart, Amare. Sit Meta, JR, and only play Bargs against scrubs

      Can’t agree there. ‘Melo is already playing too many minutes.

      Shumpert has been toxic waste so far this season. I don’t think its reasonable to say that more Shumpert would have led to better results.

      Pablo and Kmart simply cannot stand up to 30+ minutes per night.

      Amar’e was awful until the last two games, when he returned to his typical production from last year. Good (but not great) offense. Horrible defense. I don’t think more STAT gets the Knicks more wins.

      You are correct that MWP has not looked good in the past five games. He is an undisciplined offensive player. But someone has to play the back-up forward position.

      JR Smith has been horrible so far this season. If he continues as he has this season, the Knicks cannot put him on the court. And he may need to sit for a couple of games in order for Woody to get him back under control. But if JR Smith does return to last season’s form, the Knicks cannot be good.

      Bargnani needs to play when the Knicks can use him to advantage. That means playing the stretch 5. It also means using him on defense to either (1) man-up in post defense or (2) stay with the opponent’s weaker 4/5. I think Woodson has to consider playing zone sometimes when Bargnani is in the game to cover up his inability to rotate/move his feet/protect the rim.

      Knicks desperately need Tyson Chandler to return.

    26. What we may be forgetting about Chandler is how valuable he was to our offense. All our sets began with a Chandler high screen, and he was very good at diving to the hoop after setting it. So the defense was forced to make decisions.

      Unlike now, where it’s a bunch of guys standing around and the ball just swinging from one defended player to another.

    27. But maybe this is more appropriate.

      Haha. Awesome. (…and the did buy the ticket and know what they were getting into, thanks to the months and months worth of threads here at KB during the run-up to that trade:)

    28. Let me state that a large part of me hopes that we continue to stink and then start to blow it up at the trade deadline. There will be some trades which might be available this season but not next. For example, OKC maybe gives us Adams/Perkins for TC this season but not next. Spurs maybe give us draft pick for Prigs/MWP this season but not next. Melo might be more attractive at trade deadline than at year’s end. My fear is that we become a slightly above average team and Melo is re-signed to a max contract. Nothing personal against Melo just that I don’t believe a 5 year deal where most of the years will be out of his prime coupled with a 25m cap hit would be a wise decision.

      All that said, barring any further serious injuries, I think we’re the #3 EC team and capable of beating the Pacers. I know I’m starting to become irritating but IMO the 5-out offense is not a fluke at all so long as the 5 players shoot their career averages for spot-up 3s. I think it optimizes the games of Bargs/Melo/JR/Shump/Prigs and would give Indy fits. The numbers thru 70 minutes put it as a top 5 offense in terms of efficiency. I won’t bore you but if you think it through it is very difficult for opposing teams to defend. Just play out Melo at the 4 or a JR/Melo PnR in your head in this offense. Players need to respect Shump’s 3 shooting so he should be able to take slow-footed SGs to the rim. Most of our shots will be in the paint or be 3s which is exactly what you want. Any 2s will be relatively high % since they will come thru PnR or PnPop and Melo/JR are good open 2 jump shooters (no step back nonsense).



    29. And the inflection point within the ECSF was Hibbert’s block of Carmelo Anthony’s attempted dunk with 5:05 left in the 4th quarter

      For. Real.

      JR Smith has been horrible so far this season

      No disagreement here, and he certainly is a total bonehead, but he WAS very good at basketball last year, and he was a useful player throughout his entire career. The slump can’t last forever.

      Unfortunately the Knicks don’t seem to have the heart or the leadership to right the ship. I know, that’s all wishy-washy subjective stuff, but they became so unlikeable so quickly… it’s pretty baffling.

      I still think they’re going to have a run pretty soon where they win 7 or 8 out of 10 and we think they’re back on track, but there’s no real basis for this optimism, just the sad hopes of a Knick fan who wants to watch meaningful games.

      The Eastern Conference is SO BAD you could literally see a 3-seed at .500… there’s still time to recover, but it’s gotta start moving in the other direction right quick.

    30. How about defense? Well the defense does not have to be that good to go plus if the unit is a top 5 offense. Team rebounding approach should be sufficient since Shump/JR/Melo are all above average; worst case Bargs doesn’t improve in this area but then all he needs to do is box out his man. Put Shump on the player that makes the opponent’s offense go, be it George or a swift PG. If the player happens to be a 5, then Bargs is more than capable of guarding him without doubling. We could mix a simple zone with man coverage to keep the opponents off balance. Also, given the nature of our offense, we could sub MWP for Prigs against certain teams. More broadly, we need a completely different approach to our team defense: less mindless doubling and switching, weaker defenders going under screens and so forth.

      Woodson needs to be fired and Shump needs to be told he won’t be traded this season. Woody has a lousy defensive system and is too rigid, not believing in spread offenses as we witnessed in the recent playoffs. When you’re 28th in defense, any coach will have a better defensive system, even taking into account all of the dummies on our team.

    31. We don’t even have a real GM. We have Steve Mills, whose number one credential for the job is that he’s James Dolan’s favorite yes man. What experience does that guy have in putting together a winning team? None. I’d have hope if a legit basketball guy was making personnel decisions, but that ain’t the case. Mills is a bean counter. James Dolan is the real GM of this team. We’re fucked. Until he dies.

    32. Hi Mike K ,
      There are a couple of features from the old format that I miss:

      1. the ability to navigate to adjacent threads from within a thread, i.e. last post-next post buttons
      2. date and time stamps on the recent posts from the home page

      Are these possible?

    33. I swear to Krom that if we trade Shumpert for Dion fucking Waiters I’m going to get my vengeance

    34. I swear to Krom that if we trade Shumpert for Dion fucking Waiters I’m going to get my vengeance

      Yeah, because that’s what we need to solve our problems. Another shitty college shooter with attitude problems.

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