Game Preview & Thread: Knicks @ Pistons

It’s been rather dreary here at Knickerblogger these last few days, why with all the dysfunction within the organization — losing doesn’t help things either — but perhaps a match-up with the league’s worst defensive team is exactly what the Knicks need to turn things around.

To help get a better idea of what to expect from the Detroit Pistons tonight, I brought in Jameson Draper of Pistons Powered and Matt Watson of Detroit Bad Boys.

The Pistons and Knicks are both 3-6 coming into tonight’s game. Which team should be more concerned about their rough start?

Chase Thomas (@ChaseThomasSBN): I think it’s the Pistons. The Knicks have a lot of problems, but I don’t think it’s time to hit the panic button with the team’s defensive anchor Tyson Chandler out of action. The Pistons went all in this summer in free agency to finally get back in the playoffs,but their big free agency acquisitions aren’t gelling with one another.

Jameson Draper
(@jamdraper): I’d say the Pistons, mostly because their expectations coming into the season were much higher. I don’t think it’s necessarily concerning for either team, but it there was one I’d worry about, it would be Detroit.

Matt Watson (@MattWatson): The Knicks are coming off a 54-win season; the Pistons, meanwhile, won 54 games in the previous two seasons combined. Simply due to expectations, the Knicks are in more trouble. All Detroit needs to do is win a couple of games and they’re back in the hunt for one of the final playoff spots, which is pretty much all Pistons fans are hoping for this year.

The Pistons and Knicks are also both struggling to find the right starting lineup. The Pistons starters actually have a plus/minus of -35 thus far. The Knicks obviously are thin in the frontcourt right now, so should we expect Smith-Monroe-Drummond to have big nights?

Chase: With Felton ailing, Prigs not playing much, and Andrea Bargnani doing Bargnani like things on defense, the Pistons should be able to penetrate and finish at a relatively high rate against the Knicks. The Pistons starting lineup can have a big night if they don’t stand around the perimeter and focus on beating the Knicks up inside — specifically with Monroe on Melo.

Jameson: Offensively, yes. They always have big nights on that end of the court, regardless of the competition. Defensively, maybe they’ll do a bit better than normal. With the exception of Smith, who is a superstar on defense, Drummond and Monroe have been struggling this season. Maybe against a weak frontcourt, though, they can hone their skills.

Matt: Detroit’s big frontcourt has surprisingly struggled on the defensive end this year, allowing random second- and third-tier big men to go off. Even though New York’s frontcourt is thin, don’t be surprised if Andrea Bargnani or, hell, even Kenyon Martin pops off for 20 and 10. I wish I were kidding.

But on the other end, yes, I expect a lot of points and offensive rebounds from Detroit’s big three. Smith has been hot and cold all season, but he’s done a great job of playing within himself the last two games. Greg Monroe will always do his thing, and Drummond gets most of his production off putbacks and alley-oops.

Raymond Felton hasn’t played well against quality point guards so far this season. With that said, do you think the Pistons should focus on challenging Felton with Jennings and Bynum or focus on getting the ball inside to Smith, Monroe and Drummond?

Chase: I’d focus on attacking Felton with a variety of pick-and-rolls and get the ball in the hands of Monroe on the low block as much as possible.

Jameson: They should do a mixture of both. The Knicks, overall, are not the best defensive team, and the Pistons need to take advantage of that, as they can score a bunch of points.

Matt: Jennings talked a big game about being a pass-first distributor in the preseason, but for the most part he’s already abandoned that approach. Even on Sunday, when he racked up 14 assists, he took 22 shots (and did most of his scoring when the game was already decided). So regardless what I think the Pistons should do, I expect Jennings to look for his shot all night, for better or worse.

This is a two-parter. Chauncey Billups and J.R. Smith are likely going to be matched up with each other. Predict how many shots total the two have tonight combined. Also, why are these two players starting for their respective teams?

Chase: Too many. Although I expect Smith to get the better of his matchup with Billups, so I expect he’ll be shooting quite often this evening. Smith is coming off a 3-for-18 outing against a good Hawks team, so everyone should brace themselves of what might come against a bad Pistons defense.

Jameson: Chauncey won’t shoot a ton, as he’s matured, is a veteran, and doesn’t play a large role on the team anymore. He’ll shoot his fair share of shots, but I wouldn’t call it “a lot”. JR Smith, however, will shoot his brains out. He likes shooting regardless of the skill of his defender. Add that to the fact that he’ll be defended by Chauncey Billups, who is awful on that end of the court, and we’ll find him shooting… A LOT.

Matt: I suspect Mo Cheeks started Billups earlier in the season out of respect for the veteran, but he’s missed a couple of games with knee tendinitis, opening the door for Kentavious Caldwell-Pope. Even if Billups returns and starts, I’d be surprised if he played more than 15 minutes. But I’m predicting 25 shots between the two of them — and that’s with Billups taking no more than five. I imagine Smith will try to put on a show following his recent Twitter spat with Jennings.

Josh Smith is taking 5.7 three-pointers per game so far this season. Is this a trend we should expect to continue tonight in New York and going forward?

Chase: I hope so. Smith staying out of the paint and hanging out on the perimeter is something the Knicks will need to pull out a victory.
Jameson- Yes. He’ll have open shots and he’ll take them. I’m convinced later in the season he’ll tone it down, but as of right now, I don’t see his three numbers going down at all.

Matt: I think so. Even in his last two games, when he let the game come to him rather than jacking up shorts, he combined for 11 attempts. So long as they’re open shots, I’m fine with that. He’s not the ideal guy you want taking that shot, but it’s also a function of Detroit’s weird offense.

The Pistons currently have the worst defensive rating in the NBA. Why has their defense been so bad, and what areas should the Knicks look to exploit in their defense?

Chase: The Knicks should utilize the pick-and-roll and attack the Pistons frontcourt. Monroe and Drummond are allowing opponents to shoot roughly 50 percent at the rim on them this season, per The Pistons hit the boards hard, but their interior defense is still very vulnerable.

Jameson: It’s odd, and honestly, I can’t pinpoint the exact reason. Jennings, with the exception of his pick and roll defense, is a good defender, as is Caldwell-Pope. The rest of the Pistons backcourt is bad at defense. As far as the frontcourt goes, Smith is a great defender, Drummond is good, and Monroe is abysmal. It’s weird, because while it’s clear this defense has a lot of flaws, they have talent on defense still— they shouldn’t have the worst defense in the NBA, but they are. I mean, the Knicks could attack this team on all cylinders and be successful. It’s going to be a very high-scoring game.

Matt: The Pistons have had a lot of problems — and for a more detailed breakdown, I’ll defer to my colleague Mike Prada, but part of it comes down to Smith still adjusting to guarding small forwards, Drummond not living up to expectations as a rim protector and the team as a whole doing a better job defending 3-pointers. The first two I think will correct with time and experience (although perhaps not in time to stop Carmelo Anthony from going off); the latter is more problematic. The Pistons are allowing the opposition to shoot .392 from long distance this year — I have to imagine the Knicks will look to exploit that all night.

Who ultimately wins tonight and why?

Chase: The Knicks have been a better road team so far this season, but for the Knicks to win tonight they’ll have to do a couple of things really well. The Pistons interior defense has been dreadful and the Knicks will need to exploit that and not settle for contested jumpers. The Knicks transition defense is abysmal and the Pistons do a really good job of forcing turnovers so if the Knicks get sloppy offensively the Pistons could runaway with this one. Ultimately, I think the Pistons win in a very high scoring game.

Jameson: I say the Pistons pull it out in a high scoring affair. Both offenses will work perfectly fine, but the Detroit defense will finally prevail with a small glimmer of interior defense and stop the Knicks from scoring more than usual. They’re lofty hopes, but I can definitely see that happening tonight.

Matt: Even though it’s clear the Pistons have problems, they’re also capable of playing extremely well for long stretches. I actually like their chances tonight, especially in their first game back home. Vegas says the Pistons are 4.5-point favorites — that sounds about right to me. I expect a competitive game, but Detroit’s efficiency scoring in the paint should be the deciding factor.

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Chase Thomas

Chase Thomas is new to KnickerBlogger but has written about the Knicks for years now. Was in attendance for Nate Robinson's 41 point night versus the Hawks. Successfully annoyed Allan Houston's assistant for talking his ear off while sitting next to him at a Knicks game 3 years ago. Follow him on twitter:

145 thoughts to “Game Preview & Thread: Knicks @ Pistons”

  1. Coming into the season, I thought the Pistons looked like an improved team. I though the playoffs might be in the cards. They have a very good front court. So far they haven’t been as good as I thought, but it wouldn’t shock me if tonight is the night they choose to break out by taking advantage of the Knicks weaknesses in the paint. If that happens, expect another round of panic because the Pacers are next.

  2. If the Pistons are having trouble guarding 3-point shots this sounds like a great opportunity for some of our under-performing guards to break out (JR Smith, I’m looking at you). Hopefully we can win a shoot out.

  3. I am sure that the Pistons want to break out and do well against the Knicks. I am sure every team in the league wants to play us while we are Chandler-less.

    In a side note, looking at the Eastern conference standings today is surreal. At the moment, Philadelphia would have home court advantage against the Hawks, and Charlotte, Orlando and Toronto have the last three playoff positions. Everbody in the division has to consider it wide open and an opportunity for anyone to make the playoffs.

  4. Everbody in the division has to consider it wide open and an opportunity for anyone to make the playoffs.

    Yeah, but a lot of those teams don’t want to make the playoffs… The question come April will be: “who’s on the inside looking out?”

  5. That’s a fair point. Boston in particular is tied for eighth. I am sure that wasn’t their original goal, and Philadelphia is ahead of schedule too.

  6. I think all those teams would still love to make the playoffs. No one is guaranteed Wiggins. And he doesn’t seem otherworldy so far.

    Not every franchise can choose to alienate their fanbase as consistently as the Knicks.

    Big game for the Knicks, pumped for this one. Normally it woud be crazy to call the 10th game of the season a must win but with the Pacers on deck it kind of feels that way.

  7. Problem with Udrih is he doesn’t exactly have a sterling defensive reputation either. Give Murry some burn, tell him to expend all his energy on the defensive end fighting through screens and not to worry if he attempts zero shots. (and Shump, stop gambling on steals and stay in front of your man please)

  8. On offense for the Knicks, Udrih has shown an uncanny knack (1) to blow by just about anyone, (2) have the ball in open space 15′ from the basket with a clear path to paint (if not the rim) and (3) fail to convert that scoring opportunity into points. I used to believe that Udrih had a great handle, because he was able to cross-over so easily. I now suspect that the scouting report on Udrih is that a defender should overplay him away from the lane (even at the risk of looking foolish) because he is not a threat from 9 – 15′ on the wing.

  9. I think all those teams would still love to make the playoffs. No one is guaranteed Wiggins. And he doesn’t seem otherworldy so far.

    Got to disagree with you here. The biggest thing about this year is that it’s not just Wiggins. Randle and Parker would both be slam dunk #1s in many other years, and even Exum is forcing himself into that conversation somewhat. So yes, getting Wiggins is obviously not a guarantee, but really the “Rigging for Wiggins” thing is a bit of a misnomer because it’s not all about Wiggins. Tanking this year is so much more attractive because all of the teams at the very top of the draft are going to get phenomenal prospects.

    A teams like Philly has clearly put a multi-season plan in place and I don’t think they’re going to be abandoning that plan because they’re super excited at the prospect of 4 lopsided losses to Miami or Indy.

  10. #tankfordenver
    maybe connelly would be grateful enough to trade us faried for shump straight up.

  11. Having the worst record in the league provides only a 25% likelihood of the #1 pick, but it provides a 100% guarantee of picking in the top four. If you believe Chad Ford, this year’s draft has at least 4 players whose ceiling is First Team All-NBA and between 7 and 11 players whose ceiling is making an ASG. By contrast, Ford did not think that any 2013 draft pick was likely to ever make an ASG, let alone any All-NBA team.

    So, I think that teams went into this year saying that they would take their medicine now in the hope of latching on to a foundation piece. For teams that do not have a 2014 First Round pick (Nets, Knicks and Warriors), there is no conceivable upside to tanking to miss the playoffs.

    But this year, there is a long list of teams that owe protected first round picks: (Charlotte (1-10), Dallas (1-20), Detroit (1-8), Indiana (1-14), Minnesota (1-13), New Orleans (1-5), Philadelphia (1-14), Portland (1-12), Sacramento (1-12)).

    The worst possible outcome for five of these teams (Charlotte, Minnesota, New Orleans, Portland and Sacramento) is to finish just outside of the playoffs, because they could also lose their first round pick in a stacked draft. Each of these teams would guarantee keeping this year’s first round pick by finishing with the worst record in the league.

    The other three teams (Dallas, Indiana and Philadelphia) keep their picks if they miss the playoffs. So they may have a really perverse incentive to dump if they are barely in playoff contention at the trade deadline.

  12. Yeah, it’s interesting. I just don’t know if tanking is everything it’s made out to be. Every franchise is different. For the Celtics for instance, a year of tanking is fine. The fans there have had a great run. They understand it’s a rebuilding year.

    But I think people are too eager to discount the impact a year of winning and the excitement a playoff run can generate on a perennial bottom feeder. If it’s happening because you went and found a bunch of cheap, effective veterans, fine. But in the case of the Sixers, say, who are getting outstanding contributions from young talent, I am more ok with that. After a year where they got nothing from Bynum and shipped out Vucevic, I think a playoff year would actually be a pretty decent outcome.

    Now, finishing right at the top of the lottery draw wouldn’t be cool. But they still would have a decent chance at a top 4 pick even if that happens.

    I hear you though.

  13. NY_KnicksPR @NY_KnicksPR
    Starters for tonight @detroitpistons : Udrih, Shumpert, Anthony, Martin, Bargnani.


  14. sadly JR most likely got demoted because woody needs to “go big” cuz the other team has more tall guys, and not because he currently sucks at basketball. Also, love that MWP had fluid drained in his knee but the team won’t even officially admit it. I think the league is brushing off the Chris Smith thing because it treats the Dolan Knicks like the crazy uncle that you try to leave alone if at all possible unless things really get out of hand.

  15. Bargs/K-Mart/Melo/Shump have spent a total of 9 minutes on the floor together this season (with Felton). Let’s hope they’ve been working on this in practice.

  16. So our bench is JR, Prigs, Stat, Hardaway, Tour’e Murray and Cole Aldrich. This may force Woodson to give Murray and/or Aldrich some burn.

  17. Not sure anything other than a 20 point deficit will get aldrich some burn….

    Although my expectations are pretty muted. But he should be playing for sure….

  18. I don’t know what you folks have been watching, but I just saw the NBA tickets ad, and Amar’e’s knees look good. I think he’s ready!

  19. I know I sound like a broken record, but is another team really going to give Melo a 5 year max contract after this year. that contract could be an albatross really quick. I want them to trade him primarily because I don’t want them tempted to resign him for such a long max extension

  20. Shumpert mad that Smith schooled him posting up lol he really likes to blame others for his defensive woes.

  21. Why does the Knicks offense always look so clunky. Catch, dribble, dribble, put ball up or pass to someone standing still three feet away. Repeat.

  22. Nothing makes me more annoyed than when Melo walks up the court on offense and just demands the ball. Then we know we’re gonna get nothing but iso play for that possession. I like Udrih and Bargnani on offense together, they work the pick and roll well.

  23. I disagree dred, I think hes pretty impressive. improved discretion would be nice though

    What about his play impresses you? He’s been decent at scoring, which is good for a rookie, but he brings absolutely nothing else to the table so far.

  24. I also cringe seeing Melo play about 20 minutes this half. Can we send Woody a watch please? like a stop watch that shows him how long Melo is in for at all times? I swear he just stands there with that pissed off look on his face and has absolutely no clue. It’s way too early in the year to do this! I know there’s the pressure to win, but come on, it’s a team game. We need to be able to win without Melo playing 40+ each night.

  25. While yes, the Knicks don’t look great, neither do the Pistons. And their guards are possibly dumber than the Knicks guards (how is that possible?) so I am very optimistic about the second half.

  26. Let me agree with everyone on Melo tonight. So far, awful… Can’t complain about anything else … JR is playing some D so I’ll take that… Kmart knows exactly how to play in the offense. And his decision making is quick and sound… He needs more minutes.

  27. I disagree dred, I think hes pretty impressive. improved discretion would be nice though

    What about his play impresses you? He’s been decent at scoring, which is good for a rookie, but he brings absolutely nothing else to the table so far.

    I think TH2 has shown shooting ability (in streaks) and well as the ability to finish on the break. He looks very athletic that should translate well defensively in the future. he also seems to play solid, aggressive man to man defense on the perimeter. yes, his defensive rotations are awful, but that is fixable. im not saying that he is great, but as a work in progress, I see potential

  28. As Marcus said above, the Knicks are getting great looks every time they run the pnr but instead insist on force feeding the ball to Melo. On the plus side, Udrih been okay and Prigs is having one of his better games in a while so losing Felton has unsurprisingly been addition by subtraction. Hopefully if the Knicks can get the win, Woodson will feel comfortable enough to let Felton sit until he gets healthy.

  29. No ones playing particularly well. But I can’t say it’s been shit either… Except Melos game tonight. That’s been shit… And I typically like having him around.

  30. another positive is that I think we can add the Drummond/Monroe combo as another example of the back in types that Bargs can competently guard as a center. so now there is the Rockets and the Pistons. tomorrow night should be interesting in that regard

  31. I’ve been sitting here all game trying to think what my feelings are on Woodson, and I’ve come to the conclusion that as bad of a coach I think he is sometimes, I really don’t know how much better another coach could do with this roster. I feel like his biggest issue is his inability to adapt to the players he has. From Atlanta until present day, he’s always relied heavily on iso-ball, and switching on defense. I think he got away with it more on Atlanta because Josh Smith and Al Horford were very agile and quick for big men, but with Barganani, Melo, and others, the switching doesn’t work because of there inability to guard multiple positions. He is very head strong in his ways, and I ultimately see it leading to his firing this year or next.

  32. Drummond at the ft line is a sight to see. I think he is the new Ben Wallace but without the defensive instincts or quickness. I think he is good. But he has a lot of improvement in front of him.

    Melo came out and hit two shots and then was as cold as I have ever seen him.

    Bargs was great on offense. Made Monroe look foolish. But he just doesn’t make the shots he should. So many open looks off the back rim. On defense, stood his ground in the post and had a few good contests, but a few blow bys also….

    We have to win this game…..

  33. Two straight possessions where the Knicks double-team a guy out by the three-point line, the Pistons make two easy passes, and Pope drains the 3.

  34. its really a bad sign when I find myself rooting for bargnani harder than any other Knick. I would not have predicted that

  35. I think TH2 has shown shooting ability (in streaks) and well as the ability to finish on the break. He looks very athletic that should translate well defensively in the future. he also seems to play solid, aggressive man to man defense on the perimeter. yes, his defensive rotations are awful, but that is fixable. im not saying that he is great, but as a work in progress, I see potential

    He may have potential, but he’s hurting the Knicks now when he’s on the court, and I don’t think we’re good enough to give a player like him 20 minutes a night right now.

  36. He may have potential, but he’s hurting the Knicks now when he’s on the court, and I don’t think we’re good enough to give a player like him 20 minutes a night right now.

    I could not disagree more. th2 has his issues, but who do you want to get his 20 minutes?? melo cant play 60 a night…. felton needs to play less and prigs can get felton’s minutes. JR has been worse than th2. shump is getting over 30 minutes already. hes not worse than our other options, and he has the likelihood of getting better

  37. Offensive foul on Melo. Unbelievable. Man is he awful tonight. This is like a caricature of an awful Carmelo Anthony game.

  38. what pisses me off is Melo cracking a huge grin after committing an offensive foul. like if Michael Jordan did the same thing he would definitely not smile.

  39. lol I loved how Stat just turned around there during the play, if it had kept going that would have been worse than the GIF of Bargs jumping to block a shot from 6 feet away and to the left in that Bulls game

  40. Well that was not exactly the most inspiring 12 minutes of basketball.

    This team just can’t ever seem to get on any kind of good run. It’s just one long, slow slog of mediocrity, night after night.

  41. Lousy quarter… The offense looks a million times better with melo on bench tonight. And that’s saying something because it doesn’t look good… It’s nice to see options when he’s on the bench…

    Woody always yelling and benching shump… Team has lousy body language tonight… Melo sulking… No one is “up” for this game… It’s borderline pathetic… Give me .500 ball and a team that competes every night… That team, this is not

  42. And another technical.

    This is where the Knicks fall apart and mail the rest of the game in, and lose by 20.

  43. Our team in 2011 with Felton, Wilson Chandler, Gallo, Stat and Mozgov is twice as good as this team lol

  44. in 2 years, we get to reset again. next time can we not blow our cap room on a max player with no knees and a one dimensional max player that is not top 15 in the league?? can we not give away all of our picks?? will we have learned?

  45. These guys are a bunch of fucking stiffs. Anybody that thinks this team is gonna win anything at all is seriously delusional.

  46. Drummond is a lot bigger than Wallace. Not sure how many guys in the NBA are bigger actually. Makes Prigs look like a gnat.

    That was one of the worst stretches of basketball I have seen in a long time….

  47. While I think the coach sucks, I think the players do as well… While the first half was acceptable, this 2nd half is the complete opposite… Are we ready to enjoy the implosion?

  48. in 2 years, we get to reset again. next time can we not blow our cap room on a max player with no knees and a one dimensional max player that is not top 15 in the league?? can we not give away all of our picks?? will we have learned?

    You make it sound as if the Knicks are an organization that doesn’t learn from it’s mistakes… Oh, wait.

    I’m almost to the point of rooting for them to lose so Melo will bail.

  49. Im done watching this game. Thankfully I probably wont be able to watch tomorrow night’s massacre. Hopefully by Thursday the Knicks have a new head coach.

  50. At 90. I couldn’t agree more… There was actually an excitement to the games. Ever since the trade, we’ve been in line for slaughter. It’ll get here, whether now or next year or until we start clean

  51. It’s getting harder and harder to remember they won 54 games last year. Fortunately the Atlantic division sucks. 45 wins might be enough.

  52. nick c, 45 wins is enough for what??? are we dreaming to be the Milwaukee Bucks? even the Bucks decided to start over with their deeply flawed team

  53. The Knicks wish they were gonna win 45 games. If they lose this one tonight, they’d have to go 42-30 the rest of the way to win 45 games. That’s .583 ball. You think the Knicks can play .583 ball the rest of the season? I don’t.

  54. The only reason we have a slight chance to come back is because the Pistons are almost as dumb a team as we are.

  55. Ever since the trade, we’ve been in line for slaughter

    The Melo trade? Well the team was obviously a lot better last year than we could’ve hoped for with the 2011 team, but its just alarming that the team we started this sequence with would probably beat the end product by 20 haha.

  56. I would love Drummond if I were a Pistons fan, while recognizing his limitations….

    Too much dribbling, can’t disagree with Clyde and Mike

  57. 45 will make the playoffs. I don’t want to start breaking out the similarities to the Marbury teams yet.

    edit: 45 will win the Atlantic. Pretty huge step down from how they looked a year ago.

  58. Shump looks godawful on defense, like truly a terrible defensive player. Can’t move his feet on defense at all. Must be because of the knee, because he used to be able to contain dribble penetration.

  59. Quick question… Has JR ever seen the guy rolling”

    “rolling” as in a blunt?? Hell yeah!!!

  60. Once again Shumpert utterly fails to contain dribble penetration. Stuckey just drives by him and Shump doesn’t impede his progress at all.

  61. At 116. This is nuts but if I’m Bargs I’m hating playing on this team… … Wait, what TEAM? The words team and coach don’t exist with this gathering of people we call the knicks

  62. the pistons are put together like only joe dumars could put a team together. Josh smith at the 3 chucking 3’s. can we please trade melo for Monroe, filler expirings, and a couple of picks?

  63. Ive been living in Miami for 23 years yet absolutely hate the Miami Heat and continue to be a die-heard Knicks fan. Tonight Im seriously asking myself “Why”?? Life would be so much easier and more pleasant if I just became a Heat fan lol.

  64. Bring in Lionel Hollins. At the very least this team will Defend and play with some intensity, instead of making Rodney Stuckey look like Isiah Thomas out there

  65. I don’t blame Woodson. Without Chandler this team just isn’t good.

    And I give him 10 more games than that….

    J.R. at least emerged from the crypt somewhat. Bargnani took his place. Don’t think he had a shot in the second half.

    Well, maybe we surprise the Pacers tmw…..

  66. hey, tough loss, but it was to the Detroit Pistons, after all. They’re probably going to have 54 wins on their way to a Chip…oops, wrong decade.

  67. Well, maybe we surprise the Pacers tmw…..

    Yeah, the Pacers will be like, “Wow, how’d these guys get THIS much worse!?”

  68. Wow. I was listening to a sequence on the radio where Melo had 2 missed shots and 2 turnovers, and it sounded so goddamn boring and disturbing.

    We are slow, tentative, and disconnected on both ends.

  69. We still have the same scrubs after Woodson gets fired… This is the type of team you give up on… You miss a W and say oh well… Cause in reality, you don’t love rooting for the guys or the character they put out on the floor… And you know the mismanagement that hangs overhead will still be there to rain on any parade you thought you were having (in this case not a championship one). Now, I’m not that old, born in 82 and a fan we’ll say since 90…
    I’ve never felt this broken with my Knicks. The last time I was this upset was when we unloaded Z-Bo to shed salary… But it meant we were tanking and that’s tough to handle as a fan like me, who doesn’t want to wait … But while that was management throwing in the towel, the team they strolled out there still competed from what I can remember despite being outmanned and outgunned every single night. I’m not trading this team for that one, but regardless, I’m left empty. I don’t have an answer… Maybe I speak for myself, and that’s fine……

    See everyone tomorrow

  70. im fine with canning woody but real change will not come until the higher ups are held accountable

  71. While I think there are a few tweaks coach could make, the basic fact is that this team isn’t very good right now. JR and Stat looked a bit better, and we almost got the best bad defense gif of all time, so it’s not all bad.

  72. Also, when Owen is complaining that Bargs isn’t shooting enough it’s a sign things aren’t going according to plan.

  73. Jesus. Woodson is defending Melo for getting frustrated. Said he went back and looked at it and melo was right it should have been a 3 pt play. Doesn’t matter, Coach.

    He also thinks our defense was good.

  74. And I refuse to believe bargs non involvement in the 2nd half was bargs being bashful…. This team doesn’t run plays when jr and / or melo are on the floor… It friggen reeks. When I said I typically liked melo earlier in this thread, I was blatantly lying to all of you, but more importantly, myself. It hasn’t been the same since you know when, and we’ve all been grasping at nothing since then. Late first rounders, fringe nba players, old guys… When is our denial going to end?

  75. JR did remember he can go left…..

    It’s exasperating and with the next five games on the road or against the Pacers, it might be a while before it gets better…..

    I wish Prigs could play 36….

  76. The more you watch this team, the more you realize they are just not smart basketball players. Dumb shots, dumb fouls, dumb defense. I think when J Kidd was here he quadrupled our team basketball IQ all by himself, now we just have no clue on either end of the floor.

  77. It’s just boring basketball. Win or lose, it’s just plain ugly, selfish, disconnected basketball.

  78. It seems clear that this team needs a coach that is not afraid to hold Melo accountable. They are probably afraid to hire one because they think it would make Melo not want to re-sign here. But Woodson just tolerates whatever Melo does, then blames Shump for everything.

  79. It seems clear that this team needs a coach that is not afraid to hold Melo accountable. They are probably afraid to hire one because they think it would make Melo not want to re-sign here. But Woodson just tolerates whatever Melo does, then blames Shump for everything.

    It’s funny because it is true. You could enter JR’s name in there for Melo, too.

  80. Yeah, I have Bargs on my fantasy team. 13/6 isn’t terrible from a forward.

    I love the extended K-Mart postgame interview.

  81. Yeah, losing Kidd hasn’t helped. Things are much more stagnant without him.

    Really, the ball just isn’t moving. It’s been as stuck as I can remember in the Melo era….

  82. I don’t know if Shump is not moving well because of the knee or if he has just decided he’s not gonna bother playing defense, but he is an absolute liability on the defensive end. He was the worst player on the floor tonight I thought.

  83. Part of the reason the ball doesn’t move is that the Knicks do everything at a snail’s pace- they walk the ball up, they’re slow setting screens, and even slower clearing through. The only guys who play with any kind of pace once they’re in the half-court are Felton and surprisingly enough Bargnani. Of course, when you have two guys who like to hold the ball as much as JR and Melo it’s an invitation for everyone stop in their tracks.

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