Game Preview & Thread: Knicks @ Nets

Over at Nets Are Scorching, Devin Kharpertian, Justin DeFeo and I batted around a few Nets / Knicks-related questions in the lead-up to tonight’s tussle in Newark.

Once you’ve taken in how thoroughly and miraculously we actually agree with one another, come on back here for your in-game thoughts, rants, sonnets, and recipes!

Also, RIP Dick Clark.

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Jim Cavan

Beyond his KnickerBlogger roots, Jim's work has appeared at ESPN.com, Grantland, The Classical, and the New York Times. He is currently working on a biography of Robert Silverman, entitled "Clownin' and Astoundin.'" Follow him on Twitter @JPCavan.

122 thoughts to “Game Preview & Thread: Knicks @ Nets”

  1. Baron out, Mike Bibby starting. this is what happens when you post anything pro-Dolan, even jokingly.

  2. Not so sure that’s a bad thing, judging by last game. But we’l see. I would like to see more JR at point guard anyway.

    jon abbey:
    Baron out, Mike Bibby starting. this is what happens when you post anything pro-Dolan, even jokingly.

  3. Bibby starting, people pinning for JR as point, and a DOLAN DOLAN???
    What alternate Knickerblogger universe have I entered?

  4. Bizarro knicks. Truly bizarro because of the winning, though.

    gjknick:
    Bibby starting, people pinning for JR as point, and a DOLAN DOLAN???
    What alternate Knickerblogger universe have I entered?

  5. Maybe it’s the one where they go to the finals and win it all. You know, the universe that the Knicks and Giants went all the way, despite staggering odds against that scenario. But all possibilities occur with infinite alternate universes. I saw this on ‘The Family Guy’, so it must be true.

    gjknick:
    Bibby starting, people pinning for JR as point, and a DOLAN DOLAN???
    What alternate Knickerblogger universe have I entered?

  6. Can I pick which universe to inhabit? I would like the one where Charles Smith makes a layup on one of the billion attempts as time expires; one where John Starks can make a jump shot in a particular game in a June long ago; a universe where a certain athlete chooses baseball over basketball upon leaving college instead of changing sports after destroying my hopes and dreams for years. Can I have some help with this?

  7. Arc on Carmelo’s shot is beautiful. You can see them going in as they leave his hand.

  8. Damn volume shooter, took Melo 5 shots to get 15 points. And he doesn’t make the players around him better either (-:

  9. The only chance landry has of making a jumper is if he jumps high enough to actually throw in down into the hoop.

  10. thats right, felt like 60. Didn’t he have two 50 plus games that year?

    I don’t believe so. I think that was his only 50 point game in his career. Heck, back in the JVG days, 30 points in a game was a rarity!

  11. Ruru I’m very disappointed with you. When Breen has to point out Melo has had better quarters with 33 to tie the NBA record then I have to question your Melomania. :-)

  12. If Melo keeps playing like this, we’ll win the rest of our games. Now all we need is the Magic to go 1-4, and the 6th seed is ours.

  13. Nick C.:
    Ruru I’m very disappointed with you. When Breen has to point out Melo has had better quarters with 33 to tie the NBA record then I have to question your Melomania. :-)

    haha…I’ve actually posted his 33 pt quarter before on this board.

  14. I love the lead, but is Woodson gonna play Chandler 48 minutes here? The Nets don’t even have a center. Harrellson should be fine. If Chandler goes down, we are guaranteed to be swept in the playoffs.

  15. Even these short snippets of garbage time remind you of how bad TD’s court vision is.

  16. Houston did have 2 50 pt games that year, very close to one another. 55 in LA and 50 at MSG against the Bucks, I think.

  17. ruruland: haha…I’ve actually posted his 33 pt quarter before on this board.

    I guess my memory isn’t what it should be.

  18. Houston did have 2 50 pt games that year, very close to one another. 55 in LA and 50 at MSG against the Bucks, I think.

    Shit, you’re totally right. My apologies. That was a helluva year for Houston. He really got efficient that season. The next year he did even better.

  19. Harrelson looks like he should be guest starring on the next episode of “Hillbilly Hand Fishing”

  20. Z:
    Houston did have 2 50 pt games that year, very close to one another. 55 in LA and 50 at MSG against the Bucks, I think.

    yeah, i remember houston becoming an elite scorer. I think the very next year he went down with the atheritic knee. He was never the same after that.

  21. Brian Cronin: Shit, you’re totally right. My apologies. That was a helluva year for Houston. He really got efficient that season. The next year he did even better.

    Wasn’t that the year he made his second all-star team (circa 2003 I want to say) and then the following year he got injured and was essentially done as an NBA player?

  22. d-mar:
    Harrelson looks like he should be guest starring on the next episode of “Hillbilly Hand Fishing”

    haha

  23. Wasn’t that the year he made his second all-star team (circa 2003 I want to say) and then the following year he got injured and was essentially done as an NBA player?

    Ha! I am totally off on Houston tonight. Memories getting fuzzy. He didn’t make an All Star game that year (because the Knicks were so bad that he couldn’t), but yes, he did get hurt the next year. I was actually thinking of 1999-2000 where he first became a “Wow” scorer. He made an All-Star game that season. Then he was even better in 2002-03, but didn’t make it because the Knicks were awful.

  24. Owen:
    Ian is good, used to listen to him on the FAN….

    The next Breen….

    Ian is much better than Breen, IMO. With fratello (not doing tonight’s game tho) it’s always an entertaining broadcast. Btw, nets broadcast on ch 9 tonight.

  25. I love that Woodson was irate about that shot by Mr. Kardashian, even though it only cut the lead to 17.

  26. yea I Eagle is like a geek who is cool at the same time…good dude tho… pretty good on nfl tho and the czar is the czar all 4’11 of him

    JR Sec 112:
    (Quo

  27. I love Breen, though he was better when he was the next Marv Albert….

    He’s gone a little Joe Buck since becoming the national guy….

  28. I’ve been at work and not watching, so just checked in. Funny, Fields is 1-3, 2 rebounds an assist and a TO in 8 minutes… and he’s +23.

  29. jon abbey:
    Baron out, Mike Bibby starting. this is what happens when you post anything pro-Dolan, even jokingly.

    Well if this kind of first half is what happens when you praise Dolan, then I say Dolan for commissioner!!

  30. He’s gone a little Joe Buck since becoming the national guy…

    Omigod, that is a perfect description of what he has become! This fuddy duddy moral arbiter. That is Joe Buck to a tee.

  31. Caleb:
    I’ve been at work and not watching, so just checked in. Funny, Fields is 1-3, 2 rebounds an assist and a TO in 8 minutes… and he’s +23.

    Fields was waterskiing behind the ‘Melo explosion in the first quarter. He came out and then ‘Melo cooled off (but only a little).

  32. well melo has cooled off and so have the knicks. This would have been the perfect game to work STAT back in. If he can play friday i don’t understand why he can’t go for 15 minutes tonight?

  33. Imagine if they somehow lose this game to NJ after the Melo outburst at the start?

  34. art vandelay:
    Imagine if they somehow lose this game to NJ after the Melo outburst at the start?

    Melo simply has not brought out the same energy in the second half. He doesn’t have that dagger mentality. Kobe would have absolutely gone off in a game like this. Then sat out the 4th after dropping 45.

  35. Seriously have the Knicks outscored an opponent in the 3rd quarter this season? Unreal!

  36. well milwaukee is about to lose. Playoff spot pretty much locked up. Now its about keeping guys healthy and working amare back in. We are not moving up. Starting the next game minutes have to be monitored closely. I don’t think the team should tank to get the 8 seed. Really the bulls or heat is a toss up. Both are extremely tough. Getting everyone in sync is the most important thing for us going forward. Playoffs can’t get here fast enough.

  37. llcoolbp:
    well milwaukee is about to lose. Playoff spot pretty much locked up. Now its about keeping guys healthy and working amare back in. We are not moving up. Starting the next game minutes have to be monitored closely. I don’t think the team should tank to get the 8 seed. Really the bulls or heat is a toss up. Both are extremely tough. Getting everyone in sync is the most important thing for us going forward. Playoffs can’t get here fast enough.

    I agree about monitoring minutes, but I wouldn’t back off yet completely until orlando wins another game that is not against Charlotte, at which point then yes they should curtail minutes completely.

  38. llcoolbp:
    Novak is just unreal. It will be really sad when he’s not a knick next year.

    Let’s hope somehow he takes the bi-annual exception, but I doubt it. Man would I miss him!

  39. art vandelay: Let’s hope somehow he takes the bi-annual exception, but I doubt it. Man would I miss him!

    it sucks that the knicks won’t be rewarded for discovering the talent in novak. I hate the NBA cap rules and contract rules. At the very least you should be able to retain players on your team. You should be able to go over the cap to keep them. But dictator stern and the small market owners that control him, had to create a system that protects themselves from themselves. It feels like the electoral college or the senate. If you are from NY you just get fucked up the ass so the fly over states and mouth breathers have more power.

  40. “If you are from NY you just get fucked up the ass so the fly over states and mouth breathers have more power.”

    Wow, strong opinions….

    It is tough being the 1% of NBA teams in terms of monetary resources…..

  41. llcoolbp: Melo simply has not brought out the same energy in the second half. He doesn’t have that dagger mentality. Kobe would have absolutely gone off in a game like this. Then sat out the 4th after dropping 45.

    haha…

  42. Owen:
    “If you are from NY you just get fucked up the ass so the fly over states and mouth breathers have more power.”

    Wow, strong opinions….

    It is tough being the 1% of NBA teams in terms of monetary resources…..

    I have to stir it up a bit. It’s been a dull thread. But seriously, the small market teams led to this terrible collective bargaining agreement. That might cost the knicks novak and JR.

  43. JR Sec 112: Ha.So clearly sarcasm. Hysterical.I really wish they would fire Breen. He is annoying and has no sense of humor.I still miss marv.

    Funny thing is, wasn’t Breen originally doing the sports updates on the Imus in the Morning radio program on WFAN and known for being a pretty humorous dude? What happened to him since then?

  44. Co-sign

    llcoolbp: it sucks that the knicks won’t be rewarded for discovering the talent in novak. I hate the NBA cap rules and contract rules. At the very least you should be able to retain players on your team. You should be able to go over the cap to keep them. But dictator stern and the small market owners that control him, had to create a system that protects themselves from themselves. It feels like the electoral college or the senate. If you are from NY you just get fucked up the ass so the fly over states and mouth breathers have more power.

  45. All I gotta say about this game (which I only got to see last quarter and a half of) is that it was good to see the Knicks take care of business. Looking forward to seeing Amar’e return this weekend.

  46. Thomas B.: Well if this kind of first half is what happens when you praise Dolan, then I say Dolan for commissioner!!

    there are things that should not be joked about, there is a line of decency.

    but he does look good saying no to D’Antoni’s push to move Melo for D-Will right about now. I figure even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while. :)

  47. ephus: Fields was waterskiing behind the ‘Melo explosion in the first quarter.

    heh, great line. the form on his three point attempt tonight looked like he had a broken wrist on his shooting hand, scary.

  48. I think Novak may hang in for less money because he has a steady roll on this team (a) and the team could arguably win the shebang next year (b) and he’s not been given a chance on his previous teams hence maybe not on a new team (c). It depends on the system and attitude of the coach. Smith is the guy I’d like to keep. I hate to say it because he looked so promising but Fields appears to be a dead end. I’d love to be wrong about that.

  49. llcoolbp:
    well milwaukee is about to lose. Playoff spot pretty much locked up. Now its about keeping guys healthy and working amare back in. We are not moving up. Starting the next game minutes have to be monitored closely. I don’t think the team should tank to get the 8 seed. Really the bulls or heat is a toss up. Both are extremely tough. Getting everyone in sync is the most important thing for us going forward. Playoffs can’t get here fast enough.

    Our next 2 games are at Cleveland, at Atlanta, both winnable. Magic’s next 2 are at Utah, at Denver on a back to back, very very loseable. 1 behind Orlando with 2 to play and we own the tiebreaker, I kind of like our chances.

  50. Yup. Have been saying that btw Orlando and Atlanta (they win their last easy game tonight) we could move up to 6th if we take care of biz. What is Woodson going to do with Fields? His slump is hurting us and will KILL us against elite teams on both offense and defense in the playoffs. His fall of a cliff is really concerning. I can’t think of a worse starting 2 right now. Best thing about Amare coming back is less minutes for Fields

    d-mar: Our next 2 games are at Cleveland, at Atlanta, both winnable. Magic’s next 2 are at Utah, at Denver on a back to back, very very loseable. 1 behind Orlando with 2 to play and we own the tiebreaker, I kind of like our chances.

  51. Orlando also finishes on the road at Memphis. Without Howard, they would be a big ‘dog (although it depends if Memphis is still playing for home-court, or just resting).

    Unfortunately, the Magic’s other game is home against the Bobcats which should be impossible to lose.

    But if they lose the other three and the Knicks win out (not impossible), then whoopee!

  52. Caleb:
    Orlando also finishes on the road at Memphis. Without Howard, they would be a big ‘dog (although it depends if Memphis is still playing for home-court, or just resting).

    Unfortunately, the Magic’s other game is home against the Bobcats which should be impossible to lose.

    But if they lose the other three and the Knicks win out (not impossible), then whoopee!

    Yeah, judging by their schedule it sure looks like the Magic will go 1-3 so if the Knicks win out they should be able to get the 6th seed.

    Clippers game is the final game of the season for them so if by then they are locked into their seed they I assume would probably rest CP3 if not at least limit the minutes for him and someone like Blake. I think the only real tough game left for the Knicks will be the game in Atlanta.

  53. Lost 17 in a row…on the bright side they have ‘clinched’ the worst record in the league :-). Sadly 2 of their 7 wins was against our hapless knicks with Boris diaw superstar power forward. Orlando won’t lose that one but should lose the rest

    Caleb:
    Orlando also finishes on the road at Memphis. Without Howard, they would be a big ‘dog (although it depends if Memphis is still playing for home-court, or just resting).

    Unfortunately, the Magic’s other game is home against the Bobcats which should be impossible to lose.

    But if they lose the other three and the Knicks win out (not impossible), then whoopee!

  54. Funny watching nuggets clips down to the wire. After all that handwringing, only ex-Knicks on the floor is al Harrington. Gallo cheer leading on the sidelines, 0-6 tonight…..

  55. BigBlueAL: Yeah, judging by their schedule it sure looks like the Magic will go 1-3 so if the Knicks win out they should be able to get the 6th seed.

    Clippers game is the final game of the season for them so if by then they are locked into their seed they I assume would probably rest CP3 if not at least limit the minutes for him and someone like Blake.I think the only real tough game left for the Knicks will be the game in Atlanta.

    How badly is Indiana hoping we don’t catch the Magic? Little different facing Orlando vs. the Knicks in the 1st round

  56. problem is clippers and lakers pulling away from memphis, which could be locked into #5 seed by last game and play basically no one against orlando….of course, our beating clippers just prior to that would help the situation a bit in our favor!

  57. the bottom line on catching Orlando is that seven of eight games still have to go the right way, not too likely.

    ruru mentioned this a while back, but there are increasing parallels with the 2004-2005 Nuggets:

    Nuggets: fired their coach after starting the season 17-25
    Knicks: fired their coach after starting the season 18-24

    Nuggets: under the new coach, 32-8 and up to the 7th seed
    Knicks: under the new coach, 15-5 and counting and up to the 7th seed

    Nuggets: led offensively by Melo and defensively by 30 year old stud defensive center Marcus Camby
    Knicks: led offensively by Melo and defensively by 29 year old stud defensive center Tyson Chandler

    Nuggets: lost 4-1 to eventual NBA champions San Antonio
    Knicks: ?????

  58. Woodson 15-5 now. Knicks need stay hot beat Cavs Friday. If Amare play and causes any disruptions Woodson need take him out immediately. There still chance move out of dreaded 7th seed.

  59. I am on the West Coast and still agree with llcoolbp

    daJudge:
    Yep, it’s great to be from New York where everyone is exceptional and open minded.We should rule the world.

  60. JC Knickfan:
    Woodson 15-5 now. Knicks need stay hot beat Cavs Friday.If Amare play and causes any disruptions Woodson need take him out immediately. There still chance move out of dreaded 7th seed.

    Yeah, but which is more important — having Amar’e in shape and ready for the playoffs or the tiny chance that NY sneaks up to the 6 seed? Do you really want Stoudemire still to be figuring things out when the playoffs arrive?

    The chemistry between Stoudemire and Melo has been a huge question mark for over a year, and unless those two can play together effectively, we’re not going anywhere. I’d rather us drop to the 8th seed trying to make the tandem work than sacrifice long-term prospects for the tiny chance at a higher seed. And if we don’t get that higher seed, an effective Stoudemire who, along with Melo, can make the team better, is the only way we get out of the first round.

  61. Sometimes I think James Harden knows about my bet with Ruru, and is a little insulted by it…

    33:03 /12-16/5-7/11-11 +30 40 points….

    That’s 40 points on 20.84 true shots….

    Game not over though….

  62. Owen:
    Sometimes I think James Harden knows about my bet with Ruru, and is a little insulted by it…

    33:03 /12-16/5-7/11-11 +30 40 points….

    That’s 40 points on 20.84 true shots….

    Game not over though….

    Some of us actually watch these games. Raise your hand if you thought Harden would have one of the most efficient offensive seasons for a guard in the last two decades.

  63. that’s not the right way to look at the odds statistically… In any case, we will see

    jon abbey:
    the bottom line on catching Orlando is that seven of eight games still have to go the right way, not too likely.

    ruru mentioned this a while back, but there are increasing parallels with the 2004-2005 Nuggets:

    Nuggets: fired their coach after starting the season 17-25
    Knicks: fired their coach after starting the season 18-24

    Nuggets: under the new coach, 32-8 and up to the 7th seed
    Knicks: under the new coach, 15-5 and counting and up to the 7th seed

    Nuggets: led offensively by Melo and defensively by 30 year old stud defensive center Marcus Camby
    Knicks: led offensively by Melo and defensively by 29 year old stud defensive center Tyson Chandler

    Nuggets: lost 4-1 to eventual NBA champions San Antonio
    Knicks: ?????

  64. JR Sec 112:
    Funny watching nuggets clips down to the wire.After all that handwringing, only ex-Knicks on the floor is al Harrington. Gallo cheer leading on the sidelines, 0-6 tonight…..

    He’s been benched throughout the year in fourth quarter. But he does sport a really good TS. Maybe that means George karl is a complete moron, or maybe it means that passive offensive players who turn down shots and put shot creators in poorer position to create aren’t as valuable as their shooting percentage would indicate.

    He’s been losing minutes all year to Harrington and deservedly so.

  65. jon abbey:

    ruru mentioned this a while back, but there are increasing parallels with the 2004-2005 Nuggets:

    Nuggets: fired their coach after starting the season 17-25
    Knicks: fired their coach after starting the season 18-24

    Nuggets: under the new coach, 32-8 and up to the 7th seed
    Knicks: under the new coach, 15-5 and counting and up to the 7th seed

    Nuggets: led offensively by Melo and defensively by 30 year old stud defensive center Marcus Camby
    Knicks: led offensively by Melo and defensively by 29 year old stud defensive center Tyson Chandler

    Heh, nice job Jon. Here’s the thing though. That team was filled with journeyman: Wesley Person, Byron Russel, Demarr Johnson, Greg Buckner, Earl Boykins, only one of whom could really shoot — Person.

    Unfortunately, Person was literally so bad in every other aspect of the game karl could not afford to pkay him (Novak is significantly better all-around, obviously that’s quite a statement).

    So what it left the Nuggets with was Melo, Miller, Camby, Martin and Buckner — a horrible spacing team.

    When I made this comparison last year I talked how much more talented this team is than that team, and this version of Melo is much better than the 20-year-old Melo. Camby can’t hold a candle to Chandler defensively — it’s not even close.

    The 32-8 stretch was against a great schedule. Sure, it was an unbelievable run, and you could see it coming, but that team was not very talented. it was good defensively, with Melo, Miller managing the game at times…..

    But very easy to defend in the playoffs. The Knicks have far superior shooting and spacing, and a second potentially dominant scorer.

  66. max fisher-cohen: Yeah, but which is more important — having Amar’e in shape and ready for the playoffs or the tiny chance that NY sneaks up to the 6 seed? Do you really want Stoudemire still to be figuring things out when the playoffs arrive?

    The chemistry between Stoudemire and Melo has been a huge question mark for over a year, and unless those two can play together effectively, we’re not going anywhere. I’d rather us drop to the 8th seed trying to make the tandem work than sacrifice long-term prospects for the tiny chance at a higher seed. And if we don’t get that higher seed, an effective Stoudemire who, along with Melo, can make the team better, is the only way we get out of the first round.

    I actually think Amar’e, should he be healthy, will be an ideal player with this iteration– but he needs to be in attack the rim mode.

    I’m hoping to see Woodson unveil some really clever stuff for Amar’e when he comes back. I think there are a lot of sets this team will unfurl in the playoffs that will make give Amar’e and Melo the chance to really dominate.

    Amar’e and Melo had little chance to thrive together in MDA’s offense.

  67. ruruland: He’s been benched throughout the year in fourth quarter. But he does sport a really good TS. Maybe that means George karl is a complete moron, or maybe it means that passive offensive players who turn down shots and put shot creators in poorer position to create aren’t as valuable as their shooting percentage would indicate.

    He’s been losing minutes all year to Harrington and deservedly so.

    Deservedly so, yes, hard to take Buckets’ minutes when you’re DNP-INJ most of the past two months.

    Passive? He shot more than 6 FTs a game last year, almost as much as Carmelo.

  68. What I don’t get about the Denver thing is that they’re a better team when Gallo is healthy (23-16 with him, 11-12 without him) and the guy has the top +/- rating on the team. He averages the third most minutes on the team (behind only Lawson and Afflalo) and he is only a year older than the Nuggets’ star rookie. Seems like a good problem to have.

  69. Caleb: Deservedly so, yes, hard to take Buckets’ minutes when you’re DNP-INJ most of the past two months.

    Passive? He shot more than 6 FTs a game last year, almost as much as Carmelo.

    Just because a guy is a really good flopper when he drives against rotating defenders doesn’t make him aggressive.

  70. Caleb: Deservedly so, yes, hard to take Buckets’ minutes when you’re DNP-INJ most of the past two months.

    Passive? He shot more than 6 FTs a game last year, almost as much as Carmelo.

    Also, Gallo was getting benched in the fourth quarter before the injuries.

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