First day of 2019 NBA free agency: fail recap

Hi guys, good to see you again!

Is there some masochism in me? Of course there is, duh, I’m a Knicks fan. I mean, I stopped writing articles right after the season ended, and I suddenly come back for a kinda lame KB version of a Black Mirror special? Yeah, you bet.

And now onto some more rhetorical questions: did the Knicks fail at free agency? Did they execute badly and communicate worse (I think Mills’ press comments have a chance to make it to Knicks meme/quotability pantheon right behind “The east is big, man”/”We’re gonna fix you, Mudiay”/”Did Beno have to pass the ball”)? Did they sign the worst kind of players you could sign in our situation and at sort of a premium price?

Of course they did, are you even a Knicks fan?

A little perspective on how the day went by:

– KD signs with Brooklyn, joining Kyrie and DAJ: well, here we go. Do I care? Not really. KD isn’t going to step on the court for a year and Kyrie could do all sorts of damage in the locker room in one season. Also, at the moment the Nets have this roster (which is good, don’t get me wrong): Irving-LeVert-Prince-Kurucs?-Allen/DAJ with Dinwiddie, Temple and Musa from the bench. We all know usually to succeed in the NBA you need a top heavy roster, but does this strike you as a real contender in the East? Yeah. As I wrote before, I guess KD should check a little better his Merriam-Webster, I guess that legacy entry is broken.

Verdict: bullet dodged? But also: sour grapes?

– Ramona Shelburne reports that the Knicks didn’t meet with KD because they weren’t comfortable giving him the max given his injury. Now that’s kinda smart, but it looks like someone’s giving a positive, reverse engineered spin to a PR failure. As someone said, the fact that nobody disputed Shelburne’s claim might actually imply that it’s right, but the timing was weird.

Verdict: it feels strange to be on the rational side of things.

– Knicks sign Julius Randle to 3/63. Welp, I should hate this deal but I can’t. We needed a power forward, Randle is 24, offensively very talented, he posted back-to-back .130+ WS/48 seasons and he shot .344 from three on 3.1 attempts per game. On the other hand, he seems like the living avatar of the Clydeism “Swiss cheese D” and his three point shooting could be a total fluke.

Verdict: Scott Perry is a mediocre GM, but there are worse players to spend money on.

– Details of the deal emerge: third year is a team option, leaving flexibility for the 2021 summer (the next good free agency window – 2020 should be fast forwarded from draft night to summer league). Now that’s a good deal! It’s been a while since a Knicks GM knew how to structure a deal.

Verdict: Scott Perry might be a goodish GM after all?

– KD didn’t actually sign for the max in Brooklyn. It doesn’t change much, but what about the aforementioned “Knicks didn’t meet him because they weren’t comfortable giving the max because of his health”? I mean, I could care less about KD now, but the timing of that Shelburne leak looks even more shaky/shady.

Verdict: Grandpa Simpson meme where his trousers keep on falling to the ground.

– We sign Taj Gibson to 2/20. This just doesn’t make sense. It’s not about Gibson per se, he’s a good guy, a heady veteran and he’s (was?) a stout defender, and he developed a bit of a corner three. But he’s freaking ancient (34 years old) and 10 million dollars per year are really too much. I suspect the front office doesn’t really have a plan after all, we just checked off the “only young players” box. Verdict: Scott Perry pulled his Zach Randolph to Kings move in New York too.

– We sign Bobby Portis to 2/31. This doesn’t make sense and it’s actually harmful for the only quasi-foundational piece we have now. I want to scream my basketball pain but I can’t do it because Lady Farfa is sleeping soundly and it’s 1:30 AM in Italy. Bobby fits the Perry/Mills special to a T: youngish former prospect who’s on his way to flame out, has some marginally fascinating tools, doesn’t defend and sports a sub .100 WS/48 (with a career low number last year!). He also posted a positive VORP just once in four years. Oh, and he also broke a teammate’s jawbone two years ago. And we’ll pay him 15.5 million dollars per! To steal some of Mitch’s minutes!

Verdict: we objectively missed a new pair of crazy eyes and Bobby has some of the craziest you ever saw, but our FO is a damn failure. They signed three power forwards who can’t be mistaken for stretch fours for 46 million dollars per year while letting Vonleh and Kornet go. I’m not mad at the Randle deal. I’m mad at everything else.

– We sign Reggie Bullock to 2/21. This does make a modicum of sense but he’s a very “meh” player who pretty much duplicates Dotson’s skill set but is 3 years older and costs 10x. I don’t hate it, but that must be because I’m still shocked by the Bobby Portis/Taj Gibson left jab/right uppercut combo. Dolan’s razor baby.

Verdict: I’m so jaded that if Mitchell Robinson were to blow his own Achilles tomorrow I wouldn’t be concerned at all. Such is the unending cycle of Knicks fandom.

***

I guess we can safely conclude that the Scott Perry iteration is just the same old Knicks experience, which a lot of single moms trying to find a partner might relate to: “I hope he’s the one” shifts to “oh, I didn’t see such a kind/smart gesture in a long time, he has to be the one” and then “what, did he really kick his own dog/got a “reclamation project” for a second rounder?” and then “but now he’s playing with my kid and he’s sooo nice/hey we got two first rounders in a trade!” and then “wait, why does he keep getting calls from his coworker Chad and at the other end of the line there’s a female voice/WHY DIDN’T WE BUY A SECOND ROUNDER WHY DID WE SIGN USELESS SEMI-VETERANS FOR BIG MONEY AND DIDN’T ABSORBE OTHER TEAMS’ MISTAKES COLLECTING MORE ASSETS?” and then “maybe the next one will be the one”.

Also, the myth of this ninja-GMing done by Perry gets thrown out of the window once and for all. Every guy we signed was linked to us in the last five days. So much for playing your cards close to your chest.

All we have left is hope for RJ and hope that Fiz doesn’t screw around with Mitch’s minutes/starting spot. We all know hope is not a good thing to look for in Knicksland, though.

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Farfa

Just an Italian basketball fan with an insane passion for all things Knicks (and yes, linguine Alfredo is not a real Italian dish).

360 thoughts to “First day of 2019 NBA free agency: fail recap”

  1. I’m not as down as I should be.

    That Durant injury was devastating. If he’s healthy, he comes to the Knicks and he gets someone, maybe even Kawhi, to follow him.

    Given the injury, it’s a dodged bullet. The Gibson/Portis deals are pointless but not damaging. At least they’re all two year deals.

    We need to start accumulating picks immediately. If that process starts now, I’ll be a happy camper.

    If they all have good seasons, we might be able to actually get assets for guys like Randle and Bullock in their 2nd years.

    I’m fine with it. Lesson learned. Let’s build around RJ and Mitch and see what happens.

  2. DSJr/Allen
    RJ/Trier/Dotson/Frank
    Bullock/Knox/Ignas
    Randle/Taj
    Mitch/Portis

  3. I see no light at the end of this long, dark tunnel. Does anyone here? Where’s there a step forward?

  4. The step forward is that these were ‘meh’ deals instead of ‘what the crap?!’ deals. That’s actually a huge improvement for us!!

  5. oh shit….Farfa wrote something. wasn’t expecting any good news today. Shump Shump!! or should it be….Farfa do what Farfa do?

  6. We need to start accumulating picks immediately. If that process starts now, I’ll be a happy camper.

    The time to do that was when KD tore his achilles, instead we made moves to get a bit more cap space for the free agents who wouldn’t even meet with us and then we used it to sign 3 mediocre power forwards. This team is still run by people who don’t know how to evaluate NBA players or the team as a whole. We’ve just kicked the can down the road another two years

  7. 1. We were screwed the moment KD went down. that changed all the dynamics.

    2. Kyrie’s crazy, he’ll ruin BRK’s chemistry as he did in Boston, KD’s out the first year and they gave 4 years (!!!) to DAJ. On the medium/long term this could really be a dodged bullet.

    3. Dolan has to go.

    4. Mills has to go.

    5. Randle is young and a force offensively (and they structured his contract well), Bullock could be useful, but I’d rather have Ed Davis (2YR/10M from Utah) and Satoransky than Gibson and Portis. BTW they they’re all basically 2 years deal with the flexibility to be traded (Portis is the worst from a money standpoint).
    P.S. Portis? WTF?

    6. We still have all our first plus DALs and a bunch of seconds. Lottery awaits next year.

    7. Too many people (Givony, Vecenie, Schmitz, others) view RJ Barrett as a potential All Star, if not a superstar. I’m hoping they’re right. He and Mitch (and one between DSJ or Knox?) could be a good foundation.

    8. Dolan has to go… Mills too

    9. We still have cap space to do other dumb things.

    10. It’s Fiz’s time to show us what he’s made of. I’m afraid he’s a used car salesman.

    11. Dolan HAS TO GO

  8. @5
    Portis is definitely a ‘what the crap?!’ deal.
    The lack of legitimate point guards on this team may suggest that they are expecting RJ to be a primary ballhandler? That might be fun to watch, at least.

  9. Not sure I get all the negativity yet. What exactly did you want them to do? $20m on a one year deal to boogie!

    Still have $25m in space to rent I’m saving my judgment till all is said and done. And none of these signings are horrible. NOr does the length of the signings hamstruck us. Why is the consensus opinion here so negative!

    Mitch is not ready to get Starters minutes yet. Sorry Charlie. Not till he proves he can stay out of foul Trouble consistently.

    Can you imagine how quickly his growth would be stunted if you handed him starter minutes and he was in foul trouble every game. It would be a public embarrassment. I’m glad some of you guys are not the gm.

  10. Please please please let’s not talk about Boogie, we still have cap space!! ;-)

    Sato to the Bulls broke my heart… :-(

  11. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them! says:

    The core problem is that we have an incompetent owner that doesn’t understand basketball. He also may not be intelligent and trustworthy enough to recognize basketball competence in others and hand over control.

    Mills has to go.

    He has been a problem for a very long time, but he keeps getting a pass by the media and more power from the owner. Until Mills is gone and a competent president is in place that gets to hire his “own” competent GM (not an incompetent Dolan spy), and a good coach we are screwed. Otherwise Mills and his buddies will keep taking Dolan’s money, pretending they have a plan, and we’ll keep losing.

    I don’t even care about missing out on Kyrie and Durant. Kyrie is a blockhead and Durant’s window is too narrow for us. The Nets were positioned better. Best of luck to the Nets.

    These are the issues.

    1. The moves we made (and didn’t make) since Mills and then Perry took over helped drive KP away (our best hope for an elite two-way impact player).

    2. They attempted a free agent coup with a terrible team (like that has ever worked) instead of maximizing KP’s value.

    3. Each of the deals yesterday was not a disaster, but they aren’t coherent.

    We keep accumulating scorers that can’t defend and players that don’t fit with each other.

    That will not work!

    You obviously need star scorers, but when they aren’t available you need good TWO-WAY players and 3&D defenders that fit together logically.

  12. “I guess if you have to pay the guy some money, it’s not technically a team option (since a team option would strictly be a yes or no deal).”

    This is probably better than a team option. If you want to trade someone with an option you have to pick up the option. So then the team taking him would be on the hook for his entire salary. But that is not case with a partial guarantee. Only the guaranteed part counts against the cap until the guarantee is exercised

    I like the Randle signing. The Portis one is ok because at least he is quite young and could improve. The Bullock signing I have no clue. I hate the Gibson signing and have no idea why anyone is meh about it.

  13. No 2 year deal can be a what the crap?! deal. An Eddy Curry deal, Bargnani trade, or Rose/Noah are what the crap?! deals

  14. (repost on new thread)
    Like a lot of us said yesterday before the news, we weren’t going to get upset if the Knicks whiffed on Durant/Kawhi/Kyrie..
    **whisper: because honestly why the fuck would they come anyway???**
    … it was in failing at Plan B, and signing a guy like Cousins or Harris for long term contracts, and they didn’t.
    Also, a lot of people assume renting out cap space in an epic offseason of cap space would yield picks… I doubt that, and we have no proof of it ever existing.
    So far, all they did was get one shooter (we did need that, I mean come on, and Bullock isn’t bad) two marginal upside guys who happen to play power forward (on offense), and one old barking defensive vet (I think this was necessary-that’s why I wanted Beverley) who plays the same position, but probably won’t play much.
    None of these guys really move the needle, but we’re shooting to draft again next year, so great!
    How’s this- I think players didn’t want to come because we suck. We couldn’t get a guy like Beverley or Barea if we tried, much less Durant. We had to overpay to get the guys we got. I trust that Perry knew who was gettable weeks ago.
    But we didn’t lock up anyone past two years. No one on max. No one a washed up vet taking too many minutes and money from young players. And no trades giving up assets. We have all our picks. We probably will draft high again next year. Maybe things aren’t so bad? What exactly did you want them to do?

  15. @8 – I agree with everything you said, especially points 3, 8 & 11

  16. I agree with you, DRed. I’m just saying if we pivot to that strategy now, I’ll be reasonably happy. I don’t think we’re in as bad shape as it feels.

  17. I love the 76ers moves, by the way. Don’t get why the Warriors went for Russell.

  18. Also, a lot of people assume renting out cap space in an epic offseason of cap space would yield picks… I doubt that, and we have no proof of it ever existing.

    There has already been at least five different instances of teams renting out cap space for picks this offseason (Atlanta with the Nets, Pistons with the Lakers, Pacers with the Suns, Pistons with the Bucks and Grizzlies with the Warriors). That would be the proof that it existed. I stopped at five. I think there were more than five, but there were at least five.

  19. OK. Enough with this “Players didn’t want to come because we suck” crap.
    That’s not it. It’s Dolan and if you don’t realize it, you’ve sipped on the Kool-aid. The way that the Knicks have handled people in the past few years is everything. Players won’t play for that asshole.

  20. Mitch is not ready to get Starters minutes yet. Sorry Charlie. Not till he proves he can stay out of foul Trouble consistently.

    Mitch started the last 8 games of the season, averaged over 30 MPG and didn’t foul out once. He’d be fine with starter minutes.

    No 2 year deal can be a what the crap?! deal.

    It can be when you pay a guy $31mil when he has only performed at a level worth $5mil a year at his best.

  21. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them! says:

    Our team is being managed like kids that don’t understand basketball are playing fantasy sports.

  22. I believe they don’t want come because we suck, not because of Dolan. You can make a case that no one wanted to come to the Clippers because of Sterling. I buy that. But when it’s other bad teams, we always say they can’t get free agents because they are bad; why are the Knicks different?

  23. Even the Sterling thing turned out to not be a detriment once they had Blake Griffin. Then suddenly Chris Paul was totally down with playing for a racist asshole owner.

  24. I’m trying to get inner peace looking at the fact that Hardaway, Noah and Lee contracts were far worse than everything we got this year, at least for now.

    And try to imagine if social media were alive when we signed Jerome James :-)

  25. I’m trying to get inner peace looking at the fact that Hardaway, Noah and Lee contracts were far worse than everything we got this year, at least for now.

    Exactly.

  26. Randle is repped by CAA. Maybe that team option is Mills calling in an IOU on that Ron Baker contract. Randle in this market should have gotten a player option. Anyway, it’s nice to receive something from CAA for a change.

  27. Brian- Forgot about Iggy, didn’t know about the others. That would have been nice. I mean, it’s literally what the Nets did. It’s possible Dolan or Mills thought too highly of themselves to rent out space, but that changes nothing- bad choice.

  28. Perry is good at the contract and negotiating stuff, but I still don’t trust his taste in players, and more evidence is accumulating about the type of player he likes.

    I do like the two year nature of all the deals. This year we had money to spend but so did lots of other teams. That handicapped us. But since now a lot of three and four year contracts were signed, maybe in two years we will have flexibility while most other teams won’t.

  29. And try to imagine if social media were alive when we signed Jerome James :-)

    Right here at Knickerblogger, we got:

    Oh quit whining!!!
    Jerome James is going to be the best thing that has ever happened to the Knicks. Nobody asked him to score 50 points a night!! He is going to set the massive picks he is known for, block at least 4 shots a game, pull down 10 rebounds, and score atleast 8 poimts. With Jerome James on the floor, that will allow the knicks to be able to control the tempo of the game. That will open up the floor for the knicks sharp shooters. Also Jerome will play a huge part in the pick in roll because of his huge frame.

    Come On!!
    Did’nt you all listen to what was going on in the Sonics locker room? They were not getting along so Jerome James decided he was not going to give it his all most of the season. However when they got to the playoffs the Sonics put everything behind them and Jerome was unstoppable in the Kings series. I believe this will be his mentallity for the rest of his career.

    Isahah knew what he was doing and will make this guy play with the right staff.

    Huh, sure sounds familiar, as in every dumb move the Knicks make leads to, “Oh, quit whining, it’s not that bad!”

  30. I thought teams would have had to overpay to get Satoransky, but I should have taken into consideration the possibility of a sign and trade, which is how the Bulls got him. Interesting deal by the Bulls.

  31. And yes, I believe the reason players don’t want to sign with NYK is because they’re a 17 win team with very young players with very unknown value. (and that magnifies the ownership/past-mismanagement side) If that changes to a 45 win team with players of known value, free agents will want to come. The key is maintaining flexibility, repeatedly playing and hitting (?) on the draft, and winning trades. At least we have the first four words down.

  32. They attempted a free agent coup with a terrible team (like that has ever worked) instead of maximizing KP’s value.

    Strat, you keep making the comment that no one will go to a terrible team with terrible management. But LeBron and Anthony Davis are in LA, right? And Durant was going to come here before he ruptured his Achilles, right? So clearly that’s bullshit.

    We got fucked by Durant’s injury. That’s all there is to it.

  33. Meh.

    Nothing useful can come of the Portis, Bullock and Gibson deals. Actually, I fear Portis punching someone. Randle deal is actually nice (a team option, that’s good): if he fits next to MR, he might stay for long, and if not, his contract is quite tradeable.

    I would’ve liked to take on a contract with a pick (like the rumor that OKC wanted to dump Steven Adams), but at least we did not take money beyond 2021. That summer MR is up for an extension and Giannis is a FA. We will not be good and still collect a couple of lottery picks before that. Then we can think about big signings.

    So… meh, nothing good, nothing too bad. We stay on a tanking course for the next two years and we will see what happens then.

  34.  Is anyone still around from then?

    Mike is still around occasionally! And he keeps the lights on here for us! Otherwise, I really dunno. I didn’t start posting here until late 2005/early 2006.

  35. @21

    Are you being sarcastic saying he started the last eight games and averaged 30 mins?

    Cuz like you know we were eliminated from the postseason and those were “garbage” mins. And don’t count toward a real season.

  36. Hearing about the Iggy deal gets me upset. The Knicks should have been ALL OVER that. A lightly protected 2024 first round pick from an aging team for one year of Iggy? That’s exactly the kind of deal we should be making.

  37. And Iggy is still good! He’s a good deal better than Bullock, for instance.

  38. Getting Iggy after his ‘Nobody’s going to the Knicks, sorry’ would have been entertaining.

  39. The Knicks do have 2 incoming picks from the Mavs and a few 2nd rounders from the Hornets. I think the franchise is generally in a good place, even if the moves today were subpar.

  40. BC gets the iron man award for longest running avatar.

    Sure, this isn’t the worst of all possible worlds. We didn’t overpay second-level FAs (or even 3rd level…see TH2) on 4 year deals. Two of the 4 guys we did sign are palatable. We still have some cap space to play with. We have young assets on low-cost deals and some very promising draft picks.

    Think of all the things we feared most, starting with offering super-max deals to Kyrie and KD (for some of us at least) or maxing Middleton a/o Harris a/o Kemba. People here bitched and moaned about those outcomes for months on end. Then we bitched and moaned about Cousins, Mudiay, Hezonja, and others. None of those have happened yet either. And let’s face it…Kawhi was never, ever coming here.

    It’s just crazy disappointing, considering the more positive alternatives…specifically renting cap space. But Mills/Perry made it clear that they weren’t doing that, so even that shouldn’t be all that disappointing.

    If we are one year behind Atlanta and Sacramento on the win curve, then it will all be okay. And it seems that we are positioned to be serious players again in 2 years, when all the teams that blew their cap apart today will be in cap hell in a buyer’s market.

    Brian’s take is accurate. This FO is hitching their wagon to draft picks and the development of RJ, Knox, Mitch, Trier and Dotson (and possibly Frank, DSjr and whoever of Iggy, Wilkes, et. al. shines in summer league.) We will have two good picks at the end of this year and three good ones the year after that. That’s a vastly better place to be than we were at when Jax was fired.

    That’s what we have to be resigned to. Our FO is like a stroke victim…you have to adjust your expectations accordingly. In that sense, this is pretty much in line with the best possible realistic outcome so far.

  41. The Knicks do have 2 incoming picks from the Mavs and a few 2nd rounders from the Hornets. I think the franchise is generally in a good place, even if the moves today were subpar.

    It is. The problem, though, is that your assets are only as good as the people who are in charge of what to do with those same assets. That’s where things get scary.

  42. The media is mostly piling on us for losing out to Brooklyn for Durant and Kyrie. Like a lot of you, I was pretty squeamish about that once KD had his Achilles injury, so I can live with the Nets taking on that risk. (And giving DeAndre a ridiculous deal to help make it happen.)

    The depressing part if almost everything that’s come after. The Bullock deal is fine; we needed more shooting, and he doesn’t seem that overpaid both in this market and factoring in that we’re garbage and have to overpay slightly as a tax for our horribleness. The Randle deal is mostly fine? The situation with the third year makes it a very useful asset whether he’s good or bad, he’s at the right age for where we are in the development cycle, he puts the ball in the hoop in a way this team desperately needs, and he’s started shooting better from 3. But he’ll take touches away from Barrett, Knox and others, which will make it harder to tell how they’re developing, and his defense is suspect at best. And the Gibson and Portis deals make me want to scream. Our one good player is a center. Knox’s best position is PF. The league is going smaller and more versatile. So we spend the majority of our cap space on big men, only one of whom has even vague All-Star potential?

    Our management has been so awful this century that Perry being profoundly mediocre makes him one of our best execs since Checketts. But he has shown himself to be only that and no more. Which is probably more than we deserve for rooting for a James Dolan team.

  43. Lee and Noah would come off the books this year, a season in which we’re going to fucking suck, and Timmy would be done by next year, when we’re also going to suck. I’m glad they’re all gone too because I didn’t like watching them but holistically we’re no better off.

  44. Knickerblogger:

    “Sure, we may have set our crotch on fire, but this isn’t as bad as that time we stabbed ourself in the eye!”

  45. It’s very simple; the only deal you could argue accomplished anything resembling a long-term goal was Randle’s, and even that is disputable.

    Everything else was pointless garbage. I bet these guys are barely even familiar with the concept of taking on bad contracts for assets. They’re probably very confused whenever one of those deals go down. They’re laughing their asses off at Memphis right now, having no idea why they just traded for 35 year old Iguodala.

    We’re doing the process but without any of the asset acquisition and with a bunch of extra marginal wins. It’s hard to wrap your head around how fucking stupid this is. I’m already wondering what the shitty backup plan will be when Giannis re-signs with Milwaukee or signs somewhere else.

    Meet the new front office, same as all the ones that came before it.

  46. “Let’s clear out everything so we can sign LeBron”

    Actual result: sign Amar’e Stoudemire, trade for Carmelo Anthony

    “Let’s clear out everything so we can sign KD”

    Actual result: sign Julius Randle, Taj Gibson, Bobby Portis

    “Let’s clear out everything so we can sign Giannis”

    Actual result; something shitty

  47. i mean i don’t really think we’re all that behind atlanta…. if we are at all… they have trae and collins and that’s really it… i pretty much thought they lit their draft picks on fire this year but they are projects at best….

    the kings core is pretty nice… fox… bagley and buddy… but they lit their cap on fire with barnes which we managed to avoid….

    randle was legitimately good last year… yes it’s a lot of good stats bad team kind of thing but you see him play and he’s got real skills…. he can handle in the open floor… he can play one of the best bully ball games in the league…. and he’s at least shown he can knock down an open jumper…. i don’t think we’ve seen his best season yet and we’ll probably get it during his deal….

    i think we’re all pretty high on mrob …..

    the jury is still out on dsj and rj…. but i happen to think they have a very good chance at panning out…. how good is an open question and we’re about to find out but i think they will be strong players…

    so i wouldn’t feel too bad about this roster…. like we’re still bottom 5 right now but future value wise we’re somewhere in the middle…..

  48. Lee and Noah would come off the books this year, a season in which we’re going to fucking suck, and Timmy would be done by next year, when we’re also going to suck. I’m glad they’re all gone too because I didn’t like watching them but holistically we’re no better off.

    This is disingenuous and you know it. We definitely are better off. And there’s something to be said for being in a position to sign 2 max players, even if it didn’t work out.

  49. There are a few people around from the Jerome James era.
    I have been, although I have never really been a big contributor. I’m pretty sure Owen was. There are others.

  50. There is a subtle irony to Taj Gibson becoming a knick today… He was to have been the central figure coming to New York in the 2014 Carmelo Anthony trade with the Bulls that Phil Jackson DIDN’T pull the trigger on.

  51. This is disingenuous and you know it. We definitely are better off. And there’s something to be said for being in a position to sign 2 max players, even if it didn’t work out.

    How are we better off? Because we have Bobby Portis and Taj Gibson?

    Yes, there is something to be said for having cap space, which allows you to sign good players or to take on other team’s contracts in exchange for future assets, neither of which we’ve done.

  52. So, today doesn’t feel all that functionally different than year 2 of Phil Jackson when he signed Robin Lopez, Afflalo, and Derrick Williams that summer instead of using our cap space to gain assets. It’s a little better than that because the guys we did sign at least have some upside but really, it’s about the same.

  53. @23

    I believe they don’t want come because we suck, not because of Dolan. You can make a case that no one wanted to come to the Clippers because of Sterling. I buy that. But when it’s other bad teams, we always say they can’t get free agents because they are bad; why are the Knicks different?

    @24

    Even the Sterling thing turned out to not be a detriment once they had Blake Griffin. Then suddenly Chris Paul was totally down with playing for a racist asshole owner.

    Players make it happen, yes. Explain KP forcing his way out. Explain how the way that Dolan has treated players like Oakley isn’t a factor. Explain how the way Kanter was treated wasn’t a factor. Everything we do points to the fact that we’re not player friendly. Leaking the “We won’t take Kyrie without Durant” and the “We weren’t comfortable giving KD the max” leak to the media are this week’s examples of Dolan f-ups. Whether those things are true or not, there was no reason to do that. And how many NBA players are going to go to play for an ardent Trump supporter? No. The answer is much deeper than talent. Yeah, acquiring talent might change someone’s mind about tolerating the shit-show, but that’s just a band-aid. The Knicks are perceived as a festering boil while Dolan is in charge.

  54. We need a Progressive minded addition in the FO NOW! if we wanna have a chance on the GreekFreak and build a contender one day. Our “plans?” seem 5-10 years dated and uncertain due to our FO’s lack of bball knowledge/evaluation.

  55. News from Woj:

    Free agent Wayne Ellington has agreed to a two-year, $16M deal with the New York Knicks, agent Mark Bartelstein of @PrioritySports tells ESPN.

  56. @59 – There is less than a zero percent chance of ever signing the Greek Freak after how we treated his brother.

  57. The Lakers came into this off season as a complete mess and management bungled the AD trade negotiations in February.

    They proceed to get the 4th pick in the draft when they should have been 8th or 9th, and this allows them to get AD. They then fuck up the cap calculations but somehow are still in position to add a 3rd star.

    See, bad management does get rewarded!

  58. There are at least 10 regulars on this blog who would make better GMs or Presidents or whatever than the chucklefucks actually running this team. There is no hope of this team ever getting out of the bottom five of the NBA except by sheer accident. It’s very simple: these guys have no idea what they are doing, and the team is a backwater laughingstock.

    It’s not getting better any time soon. It’s not getting better in the long run. You can’t hide from this kind of incompetence. This is the wilderness, this is now two years of watching the Bobby Portis/Taj Gibson/Reggie Bullock experiment trudge its way through 164 games, followed by another cycle of failure when the Giannis pipe dream fails.

    Fuck this team. Once again, it is in our perverse best interest to lose games, so now for at least two more years I have to root for this team to lose in some sort of vain hope that a miracle happens and we accidentally tank into drafting a superstar.

  59. Free agent Wayne Ellington has agreed to a two-year, $16M deal with the New York Knicks, agent Mark Bartelstein

    In a vacuum, Ellington is a decent enough player (Didn’t Phil acquire him and then dump him?) But in our situation, is this 31yo gonna take minutes away from Trier and Dotson? Both of those guys have just 1 year of NBA experience so could improve but will they if they don’t receive minutes?

    You’d think Mills and Perry would have said: hey that Marks approach for the Nets worked out well, maybe we should try it? But nah..no renting cap space….no value signings. It’s 30+ yo vets, a repeat of the Z-Bo and George Hill signings. Maybe some contender will want to trade for Taj or Ellington? Hard to find silver linings here.

    My arithmetic: 20m + 10m + 15m +8m = 53m. We’ve got about 13m left. I don’t think front office is gonna take my advice to leave some free cap to take advantage of trade deadline opportunities. So 13m for a 1 guard. Not enough room to take Teague if Wolves were interested so is Payton or Cory the last two guys out there? I refuse to consider Mudiay. I hope FO will play RJ some at the 1.

  60. when you look at where we were before the trade vs where we are now, you gotta factor in the 2 picks from dallas. at this point, the deal is really KP on a max deal, coming off an injury, plus he’s kinda a dick, for randle at 3 yrs / $83M, plus those 2 picks, plus smith.

    I think that’s still a win. It might be wishful thinking, but I think the odds of KP being worth a max, and being healthy, vs Randle taking a step up are about even

  61. In a vacuum, Ellington is a decent enough player (Didn’t Phil acquire him and then dump him?)

    That’s right! Couldn’t remember why I felt like we had him before. He came over in the Tyson Chandler for Jose Calderon trade and then traded him a couple of months later for Quincy Acy and Travis Outlaw.

    http://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/Search/SearchResults.php?Player=Wayne+Ellington&Team=Knicks&BeginDate=2009-07-01&EndDate=2019-07-01&PlayerMovementChkBx=yes&Submit=Search

  62. We spent $33M on straight garbage.

    Probably get like $15M worth of production out of that.

    Well done, everybody.

  63. Did we give him a chance? I’m sure that it’s not how the brothers look at it. We put him on the team and sat him. He played in 2 games for the Knicks. Yes, 2.

  64. our offseason will not be complete until we nab markieff for 2/$21. the rest of the league is playing checkers and also are probably alcoholics. portis and randle are the most switchable PF duo in history take that for data.

  65. I will say, one of our biggest issues last year was 3 point shooting. we did pick up some guys who can help there. which is good, because we’re going to be behind a lot

  66. i think these deals have a chance at working out… it’s not exactly how i would have gone about it but signing young guys and at least not signing anything close to albatross contract is a win….. the motivation to punt to the next good FA class probably saved them from making a bad deal….

    the whole reason we were bad last year was because we were giving large minutes to some really bad players…. now we’re giving them to mediocre but at least solid nba players… that’s gonna result in a lot more wins than ppl are expecting…. probably not playoffs but we’ll be ok….

    i really hate woj… and i know he’s just backing his boy perry… but what he said about these deals are true… these are solid pro’s… and we didn’t overpay on any of the class B or C free agents…. or commit to any out and out mistakes…

    i think most have a problem with the strategy which is valid…. i’m not too thrilled with it either… there’s a handful of other deals that were made that were probably better than going this route…. but i don’t think it was terrible…. and certainly not the worst outcome…. so this whole doom and gloom rhetoric that everyone in ny and this board is touting is a fair bit of an overreaction…

  67. The Ellington’s signing, knowing that we had him 5 years ago and dumped him like trash, is funny in a very sad way…

  68. Ellington is another replacement level player. His value is that he will not add a single win for the Knicks who will be in the lottery for the 5th year in a row.

  69. @74 We could have definitely kept him as a bait for Giannis to come play with us but…
    I read that Thanassis is going to try again to be in the nba. He’s been invited by the Bucks to join their summer league team and also ATL may give him a chance also.

  70. so, now for guys who expect minutes, we now have: Mitch, RJ, Randle, Portis, Ellington, Smith, Knox, Ellington, Taj and Bullock. That’s 10. There’s no backup PG in that mix. Our roster has Frank, Trier and Dotson, all of which aren’t worth keeping if they don’t get minutes.

    There are 240 mins in a game, I think we want Mitch, RJ and Randle to get 100 of them. That’s 140 minutes left, across 7 guys who expect minutes, 3 guys who should get minutes, and the mystery backup PG

    I fear we have 3 starters and 10 guys who should be the 3rd guy off the bench. I’m worried my best case for next year is we are paying some combo of gibson, ellington and bullock to sit on the bench.

  71. I love the 76ers moves, by the way. Don’t get why the Warriors went for Russell.

    they were pretty much hard capped, its a asset protection move. they will be able to flip him (similar to demar I’d say)

  72. After all the free agent hype and rumors it seems that Mills & Perry had no plan other than hoping a big free agent or 2 would sign with the Knicks. Hope Is Not A Plan.

    Our front office is run by amateurs it seems and it goes without saying the owner is a moron.

    We are in for at least another year of terrible basketball with lots of losses. To what end? Another mid level lottery pick. Very depressing….

    Stockpiling assets by using the cap space to take on shit contracts makes so much sense, other teams understand. Evidently the Knicks haven’t gotten the memo.

  73. Greek media are going wild the last few hours on “Knicks want Antetokounmpo in 2021”
    There’s already a nickname:
    “GiaKnicks Antetokounmpo”

  74. Yesterday we had $70M in cap space and 2 assets on our roster (Mitch and Barrett).

    Today we have ~$6M in cap space and 2 assets on our roster.

    Not good!

  75. @80 – That’s not what I’m saying. Keeping a player that we drafted in 2014 to possibly draw his brother to the team in 2022 would be the dumbest thing ever.

    What I’m saying is that if they gave him a real chance, let him play off the bench for a full season and tried to coach him up, then Giannis might think differently about the Knicks. But the Knicks are a toxic waste dump that treats players like shit.

    I’m guessing that RJ demands a trade by the 2022 trade deadline … unless he performs up to the the Cleanthony Early, Frank Ntilikina, Kevin Knox standard. Then we’ll probably resign him to a max deal.

  76. Today we have ~$6M in cap space and 2 assets on our roster.

    Not good!

    I think Randle counts as an asset. Maaaaybe even Portis, if you squint. But yeah, just terrible work by them.

  77. I’m gonna request a moratorium right now on wishcasting for Giannis to come here in 2021. Just… don’t do that. It… it sickens me.

    /shatner

  78. It’s amazing, they’ve given out 5 contracts and they’ve covered only two positions (one of which was already pretty much full). I hope against common sense that they’re toying with RJ as the starting point guard.

  79. I wasn’t on the site for the James signing but I did experience the Jerome James era in all its glory.

    I think it’s time we took matters into our own hands. Totally serious. Why don’t we raise 4 billion and go buy the New York Ellingtons?

    Mackenzie, you lurk here right? Don’t you want to run an NBA team with all that Amazon money? I can line up a new front office for you in no time….

  80. not exactly sure what the whole seven stages of grief are – but, i’m laughing to myself right now…

    fucking 70 million sure don’t buy you what it once did…and, again we seemingly don’t give a shit about acquiring an nba level point guard…lot’s of 2’s and 4’s though…

    well, at least we should win a solid 25 games or so…

  81. @88 the truth as far as i remember was that Thanassis was playing with full energy and passion and could have earned a bench spot like an energy spark same as QAcy BUT….We were too proud to put him next to our bench beasts….

  82. “Sure, we may have set our crotch on fire, but this isn’t as bad as that time we stabbed ourself in the eye!”

    Well, yeah.

    FWIW, you can number me among the minority who are somewhat relieved by what transpired yesterday. Notwithstanding the underwhelming talent acquired for the silly $ expended, this still seems like the greatest show of restraint by a NYK FO in, like, forever.

    I actually would have been more upset with 4-5 year max deals for an aging, hobbled KD and a batshit crazy Kyrie. Or 5 yrs/$158 MM for Mr. November. Now those are the kind of the deals that could well have hamstrung this franchise well into the 2020s. As others here have already noted, the refusal to ship out any draft picks or commit any significant $ beyond a two year window does signify a kind of grudging progress from what we have seen here in the past. Baby steps, to be sure, but at least that’s better than amputating both legs with a dull machete.

    Obviously, this was far from an ideal use of the resources on hand and it hardly gives hope that Scott Parsifal won’t find a way to squander those he’s thus far managed to hang onto when he again sallies forth in search of his next Holy Grail. Best case scenario is that he and Mills fall out of favor with the Mad Prince and that they’re both replaced before yesterday’s Poo Poo Platter comes off the books.

    But, who am I kidding? New disappointments will surely be emerging from the bowels of One Penn Plaza. Time to turn my hopes and fears westward, away from the Knicks, and towards LA and pray like hell that Kawhi does not end up on the Lakers…

  83. Yeah, they just extended their life span as GMs until 2021 by selling Dolan in free agency that year. The Ellington deal makes sure of it. This is so fucking stupid.

    Our only hope is that Barrett and Randle really develop and we get a very good guy on the next draft, but do I trust that to happen? No I don’t.

    Yes, at least we didn’t make franchise crippling moves; but I won’t praise my dog for not shitting on my bed.

  84. @90 – We need to get that message out there.
    @89 – I spent the last 3 weeks learning from everyone here about how Randle was NOT an asset. Which is it?

  85. WTF. Of all the idiot things this team has done over the past 20 years, getting redundant players has been one of my biggest gripes. Why do we always have to have 7 SGs and no real PG. Why are we paying 3 PFs 46 mil a year when Knox and Iggy need to get PF minutes?

    So we have 7 SGs and 5 PFs and garbage at PG. And don’t try to tell me Portis is a center.

    I was more than fine with the Randle signing. Young, short contract, can score rebound and pass. But then why….AGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

    I hate the I can’t even thing but I can’t fucking even!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  86. slowing dragging myself to work this morning…listening to sportscenter – quote of the day:

    it’s another bad day in a generation full of bad days for the new york knicks

  87. @95 – I agree with that and if we had given him a chance, maybe we wouldn’t appear to be a toxic waste dump to the Antetokounmpo family.

  88. I don’t understand why we signed 3 bigs, Reggie Bullock, and Wayne Ellington but decided not to try to get in on Satoransky. How does that make sense? What exactly is supposed to be the vision for this team?

  89. This season will depend a LOT on whether DSJ can take a leap or is just the fun but flawed player we’ve seen so far.

  90. Satoransky required about three second rounders to sign. I can understand them not wanting to trade picks.

  91. Man, last night and this morning is a total FAIL by the FO. Sure, content yourselves with “at least they are only 2 year deals,” but such a huge missed opportunity. Really, only 2 of the guys have any upside, though I’d argue that Portis is total trash. It is really a total punt to 2021, but they don’t seem to understand WHY the big names have no interest in coming here.

    As someone said earlier, once KD tore his achilles, the Knicks should have been players in renting cap space instead of letting teams like Atlanta do it, and last night, Memphis.

    With Ellington now (and maybe one more to come), the cap space is nearly gone. There may not be any trade deadline opportunities now to add additional picks b/c the FO has no intention to do so. They only look for picks when dumping young players (Willie, KP, but evidently they could not get any for Frank or DSJ).

    Three veteran glue guy types, all of whom are going to take minutes away from kids. But the FO does not care b/c they plan to dump everyone in 2 years to chase big name free agents, again.

    The FO, and soon Fiz is going to actually try to win a few more games with these guys, since they added guys who can score. Yeah, they’ll still lose a lot, but if they can get even into the 30’s in wins, they diminish the first rounders the next 2 years, reducing the chance of hitting big in the draft.

    Yeah, there’s still a sliver of hope. Maybe RJB and Mitch will look real good in 2 years. Maybe they get lucky with the #1 pick next year. Maybe.

  92. Here’s the rundown of our new players, and whose minutes I believe they will replace.

    According to VORP, the new signings produced the following wins against replacement:

    Randle 5.3
    Ellington 1.9
    Portis 0.8
    Gibson 3.5

    I’m getting all sorts of excited for the #12 pick next year.

  93. Satoransky required about three second rounders to sign. I can understand them not wanting to trade picks.

    Sure, I can understand not wanting to trade picks but why didn’t we talk to him at all? We have been and still are desperate for a competent PG and in our rush to hand out $151M in contracts yesterday to mostly redundant players it never thought to cross our front office’s minds that maybe they should look at a PG?

  94. @ i truly don’t believe that we appear as toxic waste dump to their family but we’re not also a team deep in their hearts….
    Let’s hope that We’re going to be in place of “THE BIGGEST NBA CHALLENGE EVER”
    and Not continue to be “THE PERFECT PLACE FOR PAIN, MISERY AND RIDICULE”

  95. @107
    Like I said, Portis is trash. Heck, maybe that makes him the best signing in a way since he’s least likely to add even a single win to the team. But, if he gets lots of minutes at C instead of Mitch (and why not bring Kornett back…surely they could resign him for far less $$ than on Portis), he’s toxic waste.

  96. We still have garbage at PG and mediocre wings, none of whom defend well. The two “marquee” FA additions are both PFs who don’t protect the rim. The coach doesn’t have any sort of strategic plan other than “go score.” We should be a pretty good rebounding team and we should get some efficient offense from Randle but RJ is gonna miss lots of shots, Portis is not an efficient scorer and none of the young kids can throw the ball into the ocean.

    Bottom of the barrel defense, bad offense is what we’re looking at for two years. Glacially slow growth. Bad situation that is likely to stay stagnant.

  97. Summer League seems more tempting than the reg season…

    and less painful…

  98. It’s like the Knicks think they get extra points for ignoring the point guard position.

    The Randle signing by itself isn’t terrible, he is at least productive and young. The rest of the moves look like they threw names and numbers at the wall and matched up the ones that stuck.

    Cap space is worthless if you don’t use it correctly. The Knicks didn’t use it correctly.

  99. And please, for the love of all things decent, please do not come in here with “there was no way to rent out the cap space for assets doe” posts. These jackasses said they were not interested in renting out the space, did not participate in any discussions about renting out space, and signed Bobby Portis and Taj Gibson while other teams RENTED OUT THEIR CAP SPACE.

    It should be a bannable offense to type “there was no way we could have rented out cap space” into the little box.

  100. @107 – that’s if we get lucky with the ping-pong balls!

  101. But, if he gets lots of minutes at C instead of Mitch (and why not bring Kornett back…surely they could resign him for far less $$ than on Portis), he’s toxic waste.

    If? Don’t worry about “if.” They’re not paying him $15M to ride the pine. It’s going to happen.

    Last season, MPG–

    Gibson 24.1
    Randle 30.6
    Portis 26.0
    Robinson 20.6

    That’s 100 minutes out of 96 available PF/C minutes. So something’s gotta give, and that something is our supernova rookie C’s minutes.

    According to BBRef, Knox played about 44% of his minutes at PF and Thomas 93%. That’s another 29 minutes per game to redistribute.

  102. @113
    Stagnant is a great word for it.

    It’s kind of like they are signing Jarrett Jack or Michael Beasley x 3 for two years each. JAGs to take time away from young players.

  103. Hearing about the Iggy deal gets me upset. The Knicks should have been ALL OVER that. A lightly protected 2024 first round pick from an aging team for one year of Iggy? That’s exactly the kind of deal we should be making.

    I read somewhere that they asked Iggy’s permission on where he could get traded. It is possible he just didn’t want to come to NY.

    All these signings are fine for me except Portis who seems unbelievably redundant. Obviously I’d rather have used the cap space to get assets.

    What’s important is that the young guys still get minutes. They don’t need to get Knox-type minutes where they get to play 36 minutes per game regardless of how bad they are. But they should still get some minutes to develop.

  104. I’m gonna request a moratorium right now on wishcasting for Giannis to come here in 2021. Just… don’t do that. It… it sickens me.

    I second this motion.

  105. trying to think about something besides the knicks.

    i understand the win curve but i’m having a real hard time liking the warriors shipping $300+ million for Klay and D Lo.

    similarly but less aggressively, i’d be pretty nervous as a sixers fan. they’re not in an easy position since they really want to ink what they can before giving simmons an extension. and i love horford like any other good basketball nerd. but he is 33 and that is not a particularly friendly time of life even for guys like, say, horace grant. if something goes wrong this year like an embiid injury, they’ve got a whole lot of max tobias and old al clogging the drain. but i guess they should be a pretty damn good and interesting team for at least a year.

  106. @118
    Agreed. I said that last night shortly after the signing was announced. He HAS to start at that price point.

    The Knicks are in serious danger of totally squandering Mitch (needs to play at the 5) and Knox (needs to play at the 4). Those guys need to play as much as those positions as possible. And what tiny hope is left for Frank is almost totally rubbed out by signing two veteran wings.

  107. That’s 100 minutes out of 96 available PF/C minutes. So something’s gotta give, and that something is our supernova rookie C’s minutes.

    now do the wings. we have $11 million left. dotson is going to be the worst player to ever demand a trade.

  108. i’ve been stuck on conference calls for an hour. did anything stupid happen?

  109. Yeah we spent most of our cap space on moves that don’t make the Knicks present or future meaningfully better

  110. @120
    Last night I suggested that the Knicks could just tell GS/Iggy that, if they get the first rounder, they would release him at the earliest possible date so that he could play ANYWHERE he wants.

    But renting cap space for picks is apparently not on the FO radar.

  111. Wasn’t the idea to preserve “flexibility?” We have a bunch of unmovable junk on this roster now and a tiny amount of cap space. We won’t be able to make any good moves even if they become available, because don’t nobody want $15M Bobby Portis and $10M Taj Gibson and $8M Wayne Ellington. There’s no flexibility here until 2021, we’re stuck with this mediocre roster until then.

    Just unbelievably bad. I don’t see how we ever get out of this, these idiots just bought themselves a lot of time with their admittedly clever job-saving “just wait until 2021 we’re gonna get lots of stars then” Dolan ass-kissing strategy.

  112. The free agent season started out fine with Randle but then it got horrible. It’s true that we are only committed for two years and it’s also probably true that is the right period of time for rolling over a cap (because there was probably nothing at all worth getting on the free agent market for only a year contracts). But the players they got and the lack of a coherent team structure is abysmal. It’s so painful being a Knicks fan.

  113. @129
    I was hoping they save at least $30m in flexibility for future moves. They did not get in on Iggy and now it seems virtually impossible that they can get in on any deadline moves.

    They’ll discard Frank and DSJ, so maybe have a little bit of space later on when they expire next summer.

  114. I read somewhere that they asked Iggy’s permission on where he could get traded. It is possible he just didn’t want to come to NY.

    Since it would have been a cap space rental situation, the knicks could have bought him out, allowing him to sign anywhere.

    But, more importantly, it seems the allure of MSG doesn’t even extend to washed up old dudes, even those with nothing left to prove in the league and that are just looking to get paid. The Mecca!!

  115. It seems worth noting that at this point a fair number of marginal wins have been added. All of these guys are NBA caliber players.

    Who do we think are the 7-10th best prospects in the upcoming class? Exciting stuff!

  116. I’m OK trashing the FO for apparently not trying to take trash for picks. But, that not the same thing as assuming that if they had tried, they would have been successful. Iggy is a good example. I’m guessing 10 teams would have done that deal. why are we assuming GS would have picked us?

    Even when the nets made the crabbe trade to free space. At that point, KD has 2 achillies tendons, both were attached, and our plan was to go after him. Can you imagine if we had done that deal, ate his $19M, no longer had the space, and lost out on a healthy KD?

  117. I read somewhere that they asked Iggy’s permission on where he could get traded. It is possible he just didn’t want to come to NY.

    I have to believe he’s a buyout candidate and then heading to LA or Houston. He would be an exceptional fit on LAL if they get Kawhi. LeBron, Kawhi, Iggy, Davis and McGee? How do you score against that lineup when they’re all playing hard?

    Knox ~15.5
    Dotson 27.5
    Ellington 24.5
    Barrett ???
    Trier (a SG, so let’s count him) 22.8
    Ntilikina 21.0

    Thomas is gone, but Knox should be playing most of his minutes at SF. So that’s 111 minutes per game to spread among the two wing positions, provided that our PF/C rotation plays none of its minutes as part of an East-Is-Big lineup. And that does not include a single minute for Barrett.

    I have to believe that Ntilikina is going to be traded and Trier and/or Barrett will be forced to play PG. There’s just not enough available minutes for these clowns. What a fucking disaster of an offseason.

    This reminds me of a couple weeks ago getting a big, painful cystic zit on my pec. As it amasses before my very eyes, I’m wondering whether it’s going to explode and scar my chest forever, stopping to reason, “Well, at least it’s not on my forehead.” That’s how I feel about these deals being 2 years and not 4.

  118. Whiteside to POR for Harkless and Leonard…

    Nurkic’s absence longer than expected?

    I read something about “Riley’s last title run” and nearly kill myself laughing…

  119. The main thing I am confused about is that our biggest hole going into free agency was starting PG. We also needed a starter at PF and a starter on the wing but PG was our big hole. So now we did get our starter at PF but our biggest hole still did not get filled. I don’t care how many mediocre shooters we get without someone to run the offense it’s still going to be a kill what you eat shit fest.

    So now we still don’t have a PG and many of our young players are about to be pushed out of the rotation, limiting our upside. Are we even starting Barrett and Mitch at this point?

  120. I know we had to spend the money, but 3 PF’s, Bullock and Ellington?
    Dawg!
    What in the entire triangle zenmanship is this?
    What was wrong with signing one of Randle & Portis, bringing Kornet & Vonleh back while adding a vet C and one of Bullock and Ellington?
    *Looks and points at Steve Mills*
    WHO’S MANS IS THIS??

    Just..

    ..wow

  121. The Knicks essentially pissed away 80% of the cap space with Gibson, Ellington, and Bullock but I can’t be mad at what our young(ish) corps looks like today:

    Barrett, Robinson, Smith Jr, Randle, Dotson, Trier, Allen, Ntilikina, Portis, and Knox. Randle and Robinson should be a statistically dominant front court and I can see some 4/5 P&Rs between them already. RJ Barrett officially has free reign to Donovan Mitchell his way into ROY contention, and there’s officially enough shooting on the roster to make things work. If Dennis Smith Jr or Kevin Knox take the step forward into productive NBA basketball, we might be cooking with gas.

    We should officially be looking to build Utah Jazz East. The only thing that will really piss me off is if we don’t bring back Luke Kornet. He’s dirt cheap and can legitimately be a 3&D center.

  122. i dont think alot of these cap deals were really all that available to us… the warren deal would have been good but they probably didnt value anyone at the end of the first…. so i cant fault too bad on that….

    we were def not gonna help the nets in clearing cap room…. and i doubt the nets would have dealt within the division anyway….

    the iggy deal wouldve been good… probably the biggest missed opportunity… but thats really all there was imo…

  123. It won’t happen, but this is Fiz’s chance to shine. If he has any autonomy in who he gives minutes to, he could say, “I’m playing the kids.” Tell the vets, including Portis, that they are all coming off the bench. Hey, they are still getting paychecks.

    Rotate between DSJ, RJ, Randle, Knox, Frank, Mitch. Also time for Trier, Iggy. Portis purely a backup C for Mitch. Won’t happen.

  124. Perry and Steve ensured they have a job for another two years by not taking any significant risks and going with hope and pray strategy instead.

    Concentration builds wealth. Diversification preserves it. Diversifying your way into wealth is like investing into lottery tickets and buying MySpace, Radio Shack, J.C. Penney, Sears, Uber and praying one of them gets back or grows into blue chip status. Macro economic (NBA game) ecosystem change and reason why dinosaurs are no longer around, (evolution), be damned. Drafting Knox cause of a good 3v3 workout and saying that out loud is amazingly foolish, even if Knox becomes an All-Star.

    Perry and Steve are selfish idiot morons with amazingly great survivor skills; their ineptness won’t be evident to Dolan and many Knick fans for at least two more years; Unless has KP has an MVP type season, which while possible is highly highly unlikely.

    Two years from now, Steve will figure out a way to survive and end up firing either Fizdale, Perry or probably both. Steve Mills is the constant cancer at the garden. He may be just as responsible as Dolan is for the last 16 years.

    .

  125. Wasn’t the idea to preserve “flexibility?” We have a bunch of unmovable junk on this roster now and a tiny amount of cap space. We won’t be able to make any good moves even if they become available, because don’t nobody want $15M Bobby Portis and $10M Taj Gibson and $8M Wayne Ellington. There’s no flexibility here until 2021, we’re stuck with this mediocre roster until then.

    Just unbelievably bad. I don’t see how we ever get out of this, these idiots just bought themselves a lot of time with their admittedly clever job-saving “just wait until 2021 we’re gonna get lots of stars then” Dolan ass-kissing strategy.

    https://thumbs.gfycat.com/NaughtyLivelyIberianbarbel-size_restricted.gif

  126. The Knicks will be hard pressed to match their league-worst eFG% of last year. Kevin Knox led the team in FGA and had a paltry .438 eFG%. Randle will probably lead the team in FGA this year and he had a .555 eFG% last year.

    The defense is gonna be real bad though, just as bad as last year likely. Out of all the FA signings, not one of those guys is a plus defender, except Taj, who is old.

  127. It’s also noteable we’ve kept our tradition of making our stupid moves as soon as possible so we cant do smart bargain shopping. Gotta lock those unproductive vets down asap

  128. i don’t know, we had an initial interest in drafting DSJ, we traded for him, had him for a few months…maybe the FO and coaching staff really believe he is our point guard of the future?

    to which, okay – i can kind of understand that…portis/gibson, and, both ellington and bullock make no sense though…

    how much space do we have left – not enough for mud hopefully…

    i think we have a solid 25 to 30 win roster put together…it’s been about 5 years since we’ve even topped 33 wins…

    maybe this is what progress looks like from a knick perspective…

  129. @150
    Do you mean that second year is never guaranteed?
    If so this is good news, really un-knicksy and much more tradable…

  130. @BobbyMarks42
    The four signings in New York- Bobby Portis, Reggie Bullock, Wayne Ellington and Taj Gibson all have a team option for next year, league sources confirmed to ESPN. New York can develop their young kids, stay competitive and keep flexibility for 2020-21.

    That actually is fairly impressive by Perry. The Portis signing still utterly baffles me, and we surely don’t need both of Ellington and Bullock, but it makes all of these guys either moveable or easy to move on from if they stink and/or the kids improve enough to take their minutes.

    On the other hand…

    @NYPost_Berman
    Knicks still looking at point guards. They are at the floor but want to win this season. Rondo still out there.

  131. yes reports say all are 1 and 1 team options. suddenly bullock and ellington are modest assets. taj deal is blah but not inexplicable. it’s very different.

  132. That…changes everything. Sheesh. I still think everything was mostly pointless and stupid, but now it’s almost entirely inconsequential.

    I am still pretty upset about the marginal wins aspect though. I don’t think we’ll be bottom 3, and we might not even be bottom 5. And for what? A year to ride with this oddball group? I’d love to hear Scott Perry try to explain the point of all this.

  133. totally changes my view of the offseason

    pretty good job by the front office

    Wait a minute, those are all 1+1 deals? That’s… not as bad.

    easy now gentlemen…you all our killing the day’s grief stricken vibe by injecting needless sunshine and positivity in to the thread…

    let’s get back on track, eh?
    https://i.imgur.com/s0toqeB.jpg

  134. Wait a minute, those are all 1+1 deals? That’s… not as bad.

    And the inverse of the utterly pointless 1+1 deals that Phil used to give out. Other than Randle, I don’t have real expectations for any of these guys, but if, say, Portis or Bullock improves significantly, we have control over them for another season, and then have Early Bird rights after.

  135. It’s a one-year punt instead of a two-year punt, so it’s only half as bad. Still not great!

  136. This 1+1 thing is a big deal. I feel way less bad about it, but I’m still wishing for Portis to get mildly hurt for half the season so Mitch can play until he fouls out every single night.

    I also think that any player with dribble-penetration skills should be put at PG. Mario Hezonja, for all his god-awful play, was one of the more impressive PGs on the roster last year.

    If Barrett can pass out of the paint, hit Mitch on the roll and get to the rim, he should be the starting PG. I’m totally fine with this, especially if they can snag Rondo to be his mentor. I am certain that Rondo is one of the smartest basketball players in the league and will accept no bullshit from guys on defense. That’s worth a 1-year.

  137. The fact that these are 1+1 deals with team options means Scott Perry is officially better at this than Phil Jackson. Which is a low bar to hurdle, I know.

  138. the team options make a great deal of sense….

    it personally does not change my opinion all that much but i was not as downtrodden as most here… this still doesn’t change the long view all that much … the only difference is that we can be players at the trade deadline this year and next if need be…. but the signal is that we are trying to be competitive so it sounds like most of these guys will stay on the full 2 unless they completely disappoint….

    gibson’s probably the best candidate to be jettisoned early to a contender….

  139. Bobby Marks
    ESPN
    New York now has $11M+ in cap space after the two-year $16M Wayne Ellington agreement.

  140. Yes!

    1+1 are much better. Summer 2020 flexibility means the team theoretically could rent space around draft time.

    Yeah, still the useless few extra wins, less PT for the kids, and no flex for deals near the trade deadline. 1 year probably wasted instead of 2.

  141. If these guys are traded the options are automatically exercised, right? I’m not sure if that makes them more or less appealing. Maybe a potential trade partner would like the extra year of control.

    Ah who the hell am I kidding we won’t trade any of them despite some mild interest and then they’ll walk.

  142. Yes, this 1+1 really changes a lot…
    Good flexibility moving on, tradable contracts, incentive for players to play well and have their option picked up…
    Are we sure we’re talking about Knicks’ FO?

  143. Where is that officially reported?

    Bobby Marks on Twitter… it’s not Kawhi Leonard but it’s progress.

  144. If they did this while signing just 3 guys instead of 5, keeping around $30m of cap space.

    Oh well.

    Any link on this?

  145. A commenter on Twitter pointed out that if the Lakers are a shit show this year (I think they get Kawhi and that doesn’t happen) that AD is still a free agent in 2020. I know I sound like I never learn my lesson.

  146. Throwing an enormous 2 + 1 at Delon Wright would’ve been a much better idea than almost any of this shit if the idea was actually to try to be as good as possible

  147. The only guys out of that bunch who have any possible trade value are Randle and Portis. The other dudes are generic players that you can find under a rock.

  148. Surprised they didn’t lead with the team options in the press release…

    I still don’t understand Bobby Portis. He looks like a terrible basketball player. But whatever…

  149. Is Bobby Marks reporting definitive? I usually don’t believe anything until Woj says it.

  150. And there it is. Per Shams:

    Free agent guard Elfrid Payton has agreed to a two-year, $16M deal with the New York Knicks, agents Ty Sullivan and Aaron Mintz of CAA Sports tell

  151. okay, so, we try to win for the first couple of months, keep knox and frank close to the bench…

    i mean, it could be worse – right?

    i really hope DSJ, knox, frank, RJ and mitch are busting their asses this off-season…

  152. With the pending minutes crunch, and the number of players on the team with gaping but complementary flaws, any way we can gene splice, say, Frank and Knox, or Trier and Payton, into a single player?

  153. Mudiay Part 2

    but – it’s not actually mudiay though – which, definitely counts for something…

  154. At the press conference introducing Payton, Fiz will turn to him and say,
    “We gonna fix you!”

  155. I would imagine Dennis Smith is gonna get another 1500 minutes to prove himself. Elfrid Payton was looking like a decent emerging PG a few years back and isn’t a complete bum. Not a bad guy to take a flyer on if that’s a 1+1 deal.

  156. i don’t know, we had an initial interest in drafting DSJ, we traded for him, had him for a few months…maybe the FO and coaching staff really believe he is our point guard of the future?

    i’d like to take back this earlier statement….

  157. To be fair, Payton is much better than Mudiay. He averaged 9.2 assists and 6.3 rebounds per 36. Even with a high TO rate, he still had almost a 3/1 AST/TOV ratio. Pretty good defender. His biggest problem is that he can’t shoot.

  158. Other than the failure to acquire extra picks for cap space, which I admit is a big blunder, this is actually a perfectly acceptable pivot for the Knicks.

    We’re building around RJ, Mitch, and hopefully a great 2020 pick. That’s our core. Maybe Knox, Smith, and Frank develop into pieces that can complement them.

    These signings are just making us a professional team again. 8 percentage points in a random lottery isn’t enough of a reward to have another humiliating season. This is a totally fine plan.

  159. Yeah, we’re cornering the market on “if he could only shoot” point guards, between DSJ, Payton and (if you believe he’s still a point guard) Frank. Maybe it works out with one of them?*

    (*) Narrator: It would not work out with any of them.

  160. Man, Hornacek would’ve loved this roster. So many point guards who can’t shoot and 4’s and 5’s who can.

  161. NO MUDIAY AND 1+1

    GUYS I TAKE BACK EVERYTHING

    NOT ABOUT PORTIS THO, DUDE IS A WASTE OF SPACE

  162. If they could now cancel the deals for Portis and Ellington, I’d be cool.
    :-)

  163. i like the payton deal…. i just wish we didn’t really waste our time with some of these other guys….

    we do have an actual nba squad now tho… and the folks we got are actually not half bad…. i think the baseline here is 35 wins if i’m eyeballing this correctly… with an outside shot at 40 if we get a breakout from any of the three or so candidates…..

    i don’t necessarily agree with the long term approach here but we should actually be respectable and exciting and may exceed some expectations next year…. for most i think they will at least be ok with the product on the floor compared to what we used to have….

  164. If Elfrid is on a 1+1 as are the other FA’s then this is remarkably not-bad. I happen to really like Peyton, even though he’s not a great shooter. He plays with energy and yeah, plays defense. The 1+1 for everyone except for Taj is great. I guess Taj as elder statesman makes some sense. So Randle is the only one that got 2+1? Everyone else is 1+1?

  165. I still don’t have enough confirmation to believe the 1+1 deals are true. If they are, I might just get a bit, you know, kinda like when Tom Hanks gets accosted that redhead at that crossroads in TX at the end of Cast Away. Maybe there really IS hope after all…

  166. so, what are we looking at starting/playing time wise:

    1). DSJ (26 min), payton (15 to 20 min), frank (?)
    2). RJ (28 min), ellington (15 to 20 min), dotson (?)
    3). knox (28 min), bullock (15 to 20 min), iggy (?)
    4). randle (30 min), gibson (15 min), portis (10 min)
    5). mitch (25 to 30 min), portis (10 min)

    with fiz in charge – that should nyet us about 30 to 33 wins…

  167. i think the baseline here is 35 wins if i’m eyeballing this correctly

    You are not eyeballing this correctly

  168. Ok so Gibson, Ellington, Portis, and Bullock are all actually 1 + 1 deals with team options for the 2nd year? That makes a difference if true. Not exciting, basically a punt, but all strategic deals. This will be a slow process.

  169. What the Knicks are doing can’t be thaaaat different from how the Nets built their roster prior to this summer, other than that they had no lottery picks.

  170. Michael Scotto
    @MikeAScotto
    Year 2 of Elfrid Payton’s deal with the Knicks is a team option, a league source told
    @TheAthleticNBA
    .

  171. I like the Randle/Payton ones
    The others were not needed on these prices
    Patience is a lost art

  172. I still don’t have enough confirmation to believe the 1+1 deals are true. If they are, I might just get a bit, you know, kinda like when Tom Hanks gets accosted that redhead at that crossroads in TX at the end of Cast Away. Maybe there really IS hope after all…

    Z-Man, Bobby Marks tends to be very reliable on things like this.

  173. I like all the players, many are overlays but that’s probably required to get them to take the 1+1 which now makes more sense.

    Portis definitely an overpay, but he’s young and can shoot and rebound at an NBA level. If they wanted to take a flyer on him they needed to overpay to pry him away as a RFA.

    I think people overstate the chances of absorbing bad contracts and many of these 1+1 deals are probably acceptable trade fodder for longer term deals anyway.

  174. @200
    I was thinking the same thing,
    we signed 6 rotation players that “must” play so that leaves 4 spots for a “regular rotation”:
    RJ, Mitch, Knox, DSJ.

    Frank and Dot are trade fodder, Iggy’ll play in the G-League or cheerleads on the bench.

    And Trier?

    Maybe he and RJ will play some point and DSJ will be shipped too?

    P.S. Good if Payton is 1+1

  175. RJ Barrett, Mitch, and Julius Randle is sadly our best young nucleus since Mark Jackson and Ewing. And those 15 seconds when it looked like KP and Frank would be really good together.

  176. The Knicks have signed 6 players. One of them is pretty good on O but terrible on D and five of them suck.

    They will not win 30 games this year.

  177. Payton is probably going to suck, but that’s a reasonable deal given the pg market

  178. I see no reason why we won’s send Frank down to the G-League if he plays poorly. He needs the TH2 treatment.

  179. @MikeAScotto
    Year 2 of Elfrid Payton’s deal with the Knicks is a team option, a league source told @TheAthleticNBA.

    So… yeah. If any of these guys pans out, we can keep them around. And if they don’t, we move on.

  180. If those deals are all team options it’s still inexcusable to not use some space for picks but it’s much, much better. More like a C/C+ than a straight F

  181. They will not win 30 games this year.

    I think you underestimate how godawful we were last year/how difficult it is to win only 17 games.

    Not playing Knox 30 min a night or whatever he played probably gets us halfway there. No Super Mario is another huge addition by subtraction.

    And as bad as Randle may play on D, he can’t be as terrible as Kanter on that end since he plays PF not C.

  182. Guys will have to compete for playing time. Other than Mitch and RJ who should be given lots of leash, that’s not a bad thing.

  183. Why did it take so long for the team options to be confirmed? Why didn’t the FO ensure that info was put out there when the signings were announced? Why endure bad press especially in light of failing to sign one of the K’s?

    – So much for RJ at the 1
    – Not sure what Ellington brings except take minutes from other young guys all of whom we have to make decisions on at the end of the year (Trier, Dot, Frank)
    – Professor Taj on just a 1-year deal is a lot better to maybe mentor Randle on defense though 10m is steep

  184. At least we can waive all these guys when we’re 10 games out of the 8th spot at the trade deadline and get back to openly tanking.

    Over/Under on guys who request a trade by January- I’m going to set the bar at 2 (I think DSJ, Portis, and Trier are all prime candidates if they’re not playing starter’s minutes).

    Perry seems like a savant at contract negotiation but a huge question mark in terms of talent evaluation/team building.

  185. The 1+1’s makes this a lot better but still pretty stupid. If we were dead set on wasting our cap space why not big short deals for younger players. Make a move on Wright for big money then try to get either Bell or Looney away from Golden State or Noel away from OKC. Then we could have overpaid young players on short contracts rather than overpaid veterans on short contracts.

    Overall I like the Randle deal and am okay with the Bullock and Payton ones. Now imagine if instead of Ellington, Portis, and Gibson for 67 million over two years we had Delon Wright, Bell, and Noel for two years 67 million.

  186. well i’m not sure that i am looking at this all that wrong….

    our top minute getters were knox.. dotson… vonleh … mudiay… and hardaway… the guys that we got are all pretty much better than these guys… more importantly the bottom of the roster got a lot better….

    and yea they still ‘suck’… but charlotte had a roster full of sucky guys and they got to 39 wins…. we are kind of like that… altho we don’t have anyone as good even as good as kemba but i think randle can do a reasonable impersonation at PF for us…

    and yes 35 wins is not the greatest thing in the world but filling out your 8, 9 and 10 guys with mediocre but actual playable guys does a lot for your win total..

    35 i think is a reasonable estimate… especially since young teams tend to be underrated…. but i would have to do a deeper dive to be sure… but i certainly think 30 is way low….

  187. “I think you underestimate how godawful we were last year/how difficult it is to win only 17 games.

    Not playing Knox 30 min a night or whatever he played probably gets us halfway there. No Super Mario is another huge addition by subtraction.”

    In order to win 35 games, you at least have to have several teams that you are better than in the league, especially in your conference.

    I count 2 teams that we are probably better than right now…CHA and CLE. Maybe WAS. Beyond that, it’s all blind faith that our players play better than they have historically. 35 games is not gonna happen unless 2-3 players make huge jumps (including RJ).

    Put another, a team comprised solely of the new guys: Randle, Ellington, Portis, Bullock, Gibson and Payton, is probably the worst veteran team in the NBA. As to the young guys, Mitch makes them a bit better. The rest are have not been productive NBA players yet. Rookies almost always suck.

  188. Odds are we don’t win a single Atlantic Division game this year.
    Still, we’re getting younger, gambling on some pieces. If we hit on 1 of 4 gambles we’ve made progress.

  189. 35 games is not gonna happen unless 2-3 players make huge jumps (including RJ).

    I said 30 is somewhat reasonable, someone else mentioned 35. I figure 28 +/- 2 games is doable. And we just need to be within the ballpark of talent other teams play. There’s enough variation in basketball to have the wins add up that way.

  190. Not winning 30 games with that roster.

    Payton and Randle are decent pickups on decent deals. The rest are just warm bodies taking up roster spots and cap space.

    So with the rumor that most of these deals have team options on the 2nd year we’re back to hoping for a good draft pick and hoping to land good free agents next year – neither of these things ever happens.

  191. Is there any real good free agent next year (assuming AD resign with the LA Fuckers)?
    It’s not the year that all the shitty 2016’s contracts will expire?

  192. i think the baseline here is 35 wins if i’m eyeballing this correctly… with an outside shot at 40 if we get a breakout from any of the three or so candidates…..

    lol nah

  193. The team leader in FGA last year was Kevin Knox, and his eFG% was .438. This year the leader in FGA is likely to be Julius Randle, and his eFG% was .555. We’ll probably get some decent perimeter shooting from Bullock, who has a career .550 eFG%. Some of the young guys will probably shoot a bit better.

    We do have RJ Barrett, who is probably going to take and miss an awful lot of shots. But this is not going to be the #30 offense again. The defense is going to be terrible though, bottom five I would guess. So bottom five defense plus something like the #22 or #23 offense… that’s probably something like a 25-28 win team based on the numbers I’m pulling out of my ass.

  194. we aren’t better than atlanta or the bulls?

    I don’t think so, at least not ATL. Bulls? Maybe.

  195. Is there any real good free agent next year (Assuming AD resign with the LA Fuckers)?
    It’s not the year that all the shitty 2016’s contracts will expire?

    Draymond, DeMar DeRozan, Mike Conley, Montrezl Harrell, and Andre Drummond. It drops off significantly from there.

  196. I see a mid to high 20 win total in our future maybe even low 30s depending on RJ and we all know that 30 wins is the magic threshold to convince good FAs to sign here.

    Sarcasm aside, we signed a better passing Enes Kanter and a bunch of JAGs but if it’s true that they all have team options that’s a little better. Also, isn’t there a commenter here that swore up and down that players don’t agree to team options and that’s why Phil Jackson had to give out the contracts he did? This waste of an offseason might almost worth it for that alone.

  197. I’m… actually fine with Elfrid Payton. He can’t shoot to save his life but he’s a plus passer and rebounder and is 25, and the contract is pretty good. I think this team’s ceiling is 27 wins which should put us amongst the 5 worst teams in the league… I can see Charlotte and Cleveland being worse than us, but we’ll be up there with the Suns, Grizzlies and Bulls for the bottom 3, but all those teams have a lot more young talent that could eventually develop.

  198. 1). DSJ (26 min), payton (15 to 20 min), frank (?)
    2). RJ (28 min), ellington (15 to 20 min), dotson (?)
    3). knox (28 min), bullock (15 to 20 min), iggy (?)
    4). randle (30 min), gibson (15 min), portis (10 min)
    5). mitch (25 to 30 min), portis (10 min)

    damn, i forgot about trier…hopefully he’ll bite into ellington and bullock’s minutes, and, him, dot and iggy can get on the court and play and hopefully develop…

    wow, yeah, ol’ dot is definitely getting squeezed out…

    last year:
    hawks – 29 wins (drafted 8)
    wiz – 32 wins (drafted 9)
    mavs – 33 wins (drafted 10)
    pelicans – 33 wins (drafted 1)
    grizzlies – 33 wins (drafted 2)

    i think we can duplicate that kind of level of failure…

  199. Glad to hear about the 1+1 team options. Not just as a checkbox for Perry’s skills, but for this board’s collective psyche.

    I’m actually quite surprised they got those guys to agree to 1+1’s. I’ll go out on a limb and say that (other than the Portis signing maybe) Perry and Mills made a sensible punt – that went out of bounds, but at the 15 yard line.

  200. We’re a good rebounding team now, we have Mitch, Randle, Gibson and Portis up front and they can all rebound, RJ is a great rebounder for a wing and even Payton is a good rebounder. So that’s good for a marginal win here and there.

  201. @236 Thanks!

    30 years old Green, 33 years old Conley and the backup for Mitch :-)

    Not a great FA class.

  202. At least it should be a somewhat watchable team. Payton, Barrett Knox, Randle and Mitch, with Trier, DSJ, Ntilikina, Dotson, Ellington, Bullock, Gibson and Portis.

  203. Elfrid Peyton instantly becomes the best knicks point guard since fat Ray Felton.

  204. I feel like the league should just make all contracts 1+1 with heavy player raises each year the team re-ups.

  205. Ok, so all the contracts except Randle is a 1+1 team option… ok, I’m slightly backing off the ledge, this is good news. It adds a ton of flexibility for potential moves at the deadline, even if I don’t feel confident yet in them pulling off those moves. They’re essentially turning the team into a major showcase for all those guys, so they can field trade offers or keep the ones that play well. It’s not a terrible idea considering the top guys had other plans.

    I would still want them to chase assets more aggressively, but this can still be done in the near future with those deals. There’s still a decent possible path to becoming a good team somewhere in there.

  206. we already have 14 roster slots full which means if we really want to bring back lance like we said we did there’s no room for luke (or kadeem or wilkes). offseason went from real bad to meh minus. they are setting us up to spend another year whining about minutes distribution.

  207. If we make 35Wins Fiz should be voted coach of the year.
    29 is the ceiling firing on all cylinders imo

  208. Elfrid Peyton instantly becomes the best knicks point guard since fat Ray Felton.

    i’d be really surprised if he starts over DSJ…not to say he doesn’t deserve it – i’d just be really surprised…

    seems you have to go with: DSJ, RJ, knox, randle, mitch to at least start the season…

  209. I feel like the Taj Gibson signing takes the place of bringing back Lance. Kadeem on a minimum seems to make much more sense for the 15th roster spot.

    Then again, I’m not that confident in Frank remaining on this roster, so we might get Kadeem and Lance?

  210. i’m a kadeem fan, but he’s not young. luke is the guy they should want to keep.

  211. @250 that’s fine, though I think Fiz won’t be married to DSjr as the starter if Elfrid ends up killing it at any point during the season.

  212. i think with the guys they signed they will probably have everyone needing to earn playing time… which is going to be on fizz now… i don’t even think rj will be annointed a starter out of the gate….

    i kind of like the approach but i’m not too confident in fiz in figuring out the best minutes distribution….

  213. The team options lower the downside for these moves. But I’m still not clear on what the upside is.

  214. The team options lower the downside for these moves. But I’m still not clear on what the upside is.

    32 wins and the 12 pick in the draft?

  215. I officially like what the Knicks did. I don’t love it because we didn’t add any extra draft picks and we weren’t in on Brogdon (or D’Angelo Russell), but this is cool. Randle is going to be a borderline all star for us, and we got some guys who can shoot and play defense. We also have like $40M in cap space next season to add a “star” and we have a bunch of trade ammunition (expiring contracts, draft picks, and young players) in case James Harden suddenly wants out of Houston or something crazy like that. This is a good development.

  216. Also, purgatory isn’t as drastic a thing anymore. We can be the 8th worst team in basketball and somehow jump up into the top 5 picks because of the flattened lottery odds. If you have Barrett, Randle, Robinson, and somehow wind up with the pick that turns into Cole Anthony PLUS $40M in cap space you’re looking good. I’m ready to watch RJ Bryant I mean Barrett go to work. Hopefully we really can be Utah Jazz East.

  217. I doubt they will keep Kornet. But I think Kornet suffers from the eye test. He looks clumsy, and he looks slow, but he actually gets good results, by the statistics. I think some smart team may check him out.

  218. I’m ready to watch RJ Bryant I mean Barrett go to work.

    As overrated as he was, Kobe would be a 99th percentile outcome for Barrett. If Barrett turns into the starting volume scorer on a 5-time champion and 7-time Finalist, I will lose my shit in the best possible way

  219. 32 wins and the 12 pick in the draft?

    If that team wins 32 games Fiz should be coach of the year.

    At the same time they should show marginally better results than last year.

    Payton being the best point guard for this team in years is a sad testament to the point guards they’ve had most of this century

  220. Isn’t there a good reason to leave a roster spot open? Must we have 15 active players? Why can’t we use summer league and g-league to see if we can find a gem somewhere?

  221. At the same time they should show marginally better results than last year.

    Adding 15 wins doesn’t seem totally crazy, given the moves they made.

    Kevin Knox, -6.0 BPM, 2158 MP
    Lance Thomas, -5.3 BPM, 783 MP
    Frank Ntilikina, -5.7 BPM, 904 MP
    John Jenkins, -5.6 BPM, 319 MP
    Mario Hezonja, -4.0 BPM, 1206 MP
    Henry Ellenson, -3.8 BPM, 234 MP
    Trey Burke, -3.5 BPM, 689 MP
    Emmanuel Mudiay, -2.4 BPM, 1607 MP

    Let’s just assume that Knox cuts his BPM to -3.0 (a great feat!) and Frank gets quickly traded for a 2025 2RP. Oh, and Trier cuts his BPM in half, too. That removes 12+ NEGATIVE wins against replacement from the roster.

    That’s nearly 7,000 minutes to be distributed among the new guys, none of whom are remotely as bad as the guys listed above. And like his D or not, Randle has the opportunity to be one of the best volume scorers in franchise history with Mitch supporting him at the rim. Of course, we need Bobby Portis to play no more than 15 MPG at center, but I’ve got my fingers crossed on that one.

    It’s still not good, but you’re going to see a shit-ton of addition by subtraction this year.

  222. meanwhile, under the radar, 3 Headed Monsters are 2-0, despite an off night from Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf

  223. It’s still not good, but you’re going to see a shit-ton of addition by subtraction this year.

    Yeah the questions are playing time and how bad RJ is, but we could get to 30~ wins without anything particularly good happening

  224. Randle, Payton and Bullock are fine, I’d even call them good signings. I guess I can understand Gibson for the whole veteran presence crap plus he’s a New Yorker and does play D. But the Portis and Ellington signings make no sense because they will probably take playing time away from young guys on the roster who should play and are basically redundant signings considering the other guys they signed.

    Whatever, now I guess to see how good a coach Fiz is. Really curious to see what kind of start they get off to, if they can be close to .500 thru December maybe thoughts of the 8th seed can become realistic??

  225. with the flattened lottery odds…. getting to 32-35 wins isn’t super detrimental to the tank…. that’s only 8-12% worse odds at the #1…. which is about half what it was originally… new orleans had 33 wins and the lakers had 39….

    with this new reality…. taking a risk on young free agents is a lot more palatable…. which is what i was hoping for with randle and dlo but what we wound up with was a less riskier and maybe slightly worse version of that….

    the risk/reward with tanking and building through the draft should change given these new realities…. because the calculus is now different enough to warrant a reconsideration of these past assumptions….

  226. @268

    Randle, Payton and Bullock are fine, I’d even call them good signings. I guess I can understand Gibson for the whole veteran presence crap plus he’s a New Yorker and does play D. But the Portis and Ellington signings make no sense because they will probably take playing time away from young guys on the roster who should play and are basically redundant signings considering the other guys they signed.

    Totally agree, assuming all are +1 deals. Revised grades:

    Randle B
    Payton B (I like this guy WAY better than Mudiay and DSJ…he defends)
    Bullock C (okay, good guy, can shoot)
    Gibson D (vet presence…still…)
    Portis F (garbage overpay, takes time from Mitch, etc.)
    Ellington F (why, esp. with Bullock already signed? favor to his agent?)

    Now that I’ve said this, watch Portis be a breakout star!
    :-)

  227. Okay, having progressed quickly through the Stages of Grief, here’s where I come out on what I think the plan is:

    1. Roll over the cap space until the next big FA class in a couple of years.

    2. Bring in some competent veterans so there’s not a repeat of what happened with Kevin Knox this season, where a kid who’s in wildly over his head winds up soaking up minutes and usage because there are no better options.

    2a. Hope the kids pick up some good habits from being around more seasoned/competent players.

    3. Hope at least one of these lottery scratch-off tickets (whether that’s Payton or Smith or Randle) finally achieves his potential and becomes a long-term piece to go with Barrett and Robinson.

    4. Hope that parts 1-3 eventually turn around our reputation as a dumpster fire so it’s easier for us to attract bigger free agents next time. And embrace the way the flattened lottery odds discourage the kind of blatant tanking we should have done in the past.

    That said, I take issue with various bits of execution. Signing both Gibson and Portis seems counter productive. Ditto both Bullock and Ellington. There’s forcing the kids to earn their minutes, and then there’s making it very difficult for them to find minutes even if they’re earned. I don’t trust Fizdale. We should’ve tried to rent some of that space for a pick. Etc. But I can see the shape of a plan here.

    That, and I’m a self-delusional Knicks fan.

  228. Now that i’m thinkin it over…would have been MUCH easier for JD & the FO to give the max to KD, add Kyrie and DJordan and say to all the knicks fans: We did what we had to do. Now it’s on them.
    But nO !
    They chose THE HARD WAY !
    Do they REALLY CARE and Go Slowly & Cautiously for team’s success or are they bullshitting us pretty hard ?
    Only time will tell

  229. We have exactly 4 bigs on our roster plus whatever Kevin Knox is (mostly garbage). I don’t think the front court is too crowded. I expect Taj to play backup minutes to Mitch. Taj’s defense helps cover for Randle and Portis, but both fit better next to Mitch.

  230. So will the Knicks unload Frank and someone else?
    I’m curious to see what other pieces move.

  231. And I believe tanking is effectively stupid at this point. 14% isn’t worth a completely noncompetitive team

  232. if kawhi goes to the lakers (or stays) i guess we’ll find out what other rent-a-cap deals were available since the clippers will have a ton of room left and i kinda doubt they plan on paying boogie and jabari a bunch.

  233. I think the book on this front office is pretty much written. They’re decidedly mediocre. That’s a pretty big upgrade from every front office we’ve had in my life save for maybe Grunwald, but they will not be competing with the Masais and Moreys or the world.

    Layden, Isiah, and Phil would make sets of moves that literally precluded us from putting together a contender. Their combination of moves made it a flat impossibility, regardless of any luck that came our way. These guys know how not to do that, which is an upgrade, but their only chance of putting one together involves such luck. Winning a lottery or two, finally being able to reel in the worthy max players, etc.

    If these guys win a championship it’ll look a lot more like the 2012 Heat or 2015 Cavs than the 2011 Mavs or 2019 Raptors.

  234. I think it’s clear that Frank is toast. The only way he even makes the team is to have a great pre-season. He has a partially guaranteed contract and is a FA after this year. The fact that he wasn’t traded for a 2nd round pick is an indictment. No NBA team wants him at this point.

    Honestly, I really wish the kid the best. He was hurt much of last year and didn’t take that crucial next step.

  235. Yeah, if they don’t add any other bigs and Portis gets like 20 minutes a game, there’s still 76 minutes to go to divide between Mitch, Randle and Gibson. That should guarantee Mitch gets all the minutes he should get and even some space for Kornet if they do bring him back. I like Kadeem quite a bit but I think I’d rather bring Kornet back than him.

  236. Even without Bullock and Ellington, Frank was likely behind Dotson, Trier, and RJ on the depth chart. Maybe he could play some 3rd string PG with RJ on the floor, but he might even be behind Trier or RJ there.

  237. For a guy who likes punching teammates in the face, Portis’ game is pretty soft. He doesn’t dunk, doesn’t block shots and he doesn’t get to the free throw line at all. He’s a finesse stretch 4 who rebounds well.

    He looks like a bullshit player to me, honestly. Probably the worst signing of the bunch.

  238. Kevin Knox, -6.0 BPM, 2158 MP
    Lance Thomas, -5.3 BPM, 783 MP
    Frank Ntilikina, -5.7 BPM, 904 MP
    John Jenkins, -5.6 BPM, 319 MP
    Mario Hezonja, -4.0 BPM, 1206 MP
    Henry Ellenson, -3.8 BPM, 234 MP
    Trey Burke, -3.5 BPM, 689 MP
    Emmanuel Mudiay, -2.4 BPM, 1607 MP

    those are some crazy numbers…not a whole lot of nba talent there…except for maybe (maybe not) knox – good riddance…

    that’s funny, and mud had his best year ever…

  239. Portis was definitely the most pointless signing of them all, and that’s saying something. There’s a largely bullshit rationale you could pull out of your ass for the others. Randle could be an asset, the shitty SG duo could be trade assets/provide some spacing for the young guys, Gibson can uh do leadership and development because apparently that’s above the pay grade of coaches who don’t count against the salary cap, and we did kind of need someone who is nominally a point guard.

    Portis was purely a “welp we have the money and we don’t know what a salary dump is so why not” signing.

  240. I’m glad I have you all. It didn’t take me but two minutes to walk into work here and get hit with the #lolKnicks bs:

    One of the basketball assistant coaches waves to me, saying, “hey! Julius Randle!” Followed by, “you guys gonna sign Kwame Brown and Sasha Vujacic too!”

    Fucking spoiled-ass Laker fans.

  241. Followed by, “you guys gonna sign Kwame Brown and Sasha Vujacic too!”

    Suggested retort:
    “We already had Sasha here when he was 50 years old! Thanks, Phil!”

  242. would have been MUCH easier for JD & the FO to give the max to KD, add Kyrie and DJordan and say to all the knicks fans: We did what we had to do.

    I’m not sure why you are assuming that if we gave those guys the same offer the nets did, they would have chosen us. All we really have to offer KD in 2 years is Mitch and RJ’s potential. The nets have much, much more. plus the parking is easier there.

  243. Suggested retort:
    “We already had Sasha here when he was 50 years old! Thanks, Phil!”

    Heh. Probably better than what I told him, which was “WE DON’T WANT THOSE BUMS!”

    JK47 is anyone ragging on you out here? Or do you not tell people you’re a Knicks fan? Lol

  244. Could someone please explain how a front office cannot understand that renting cap space for picks is a better strategy for a rebuilding team than signing grizzled vets? I’m really trying to wrap my head around it, but right now all I can feel is a sense of disgust.

  245. @288
    They’d probably say “winning culture.” Sign guys who WANT to be here rather than guys who are traded here and possibly very unhappy. They’d also say “to be competitive” rather than truly tank for the best possible lottery chances.

    My response would be, “Take the picks and buyout those unhappy guys.” Build a “winning culture” by making lots of draft picks to increase your odds of getting 2-3 good young players that a star player or two wants to play with.

  246. My Laker fan friends tend to be pretty low-key, non-shit talking type of people. So it’s hard to get too much hate built up towards them.

    Honestly more of my musician friends think a slam dunk is the same thing as a touchdown and make fun of me for being into “sportsball” in the first place.

  247. BTW this year Sasha played in the Italian second league and yes, he’s still a hit with the ladies…

  248. clippers are getting a first to take harkless, whose contract isn’t even so bad. don’t tell me there weren’t chances to rent.

  249. The three, or better four, ring circus:

    “The sign-and-trade deal that will send Jimmy Butler to the Heat and Josh Richardson to the Sixers has been agreed upon, according to ESPN’s Adrian Wojnarowski and Zach Lowe (Twitter link).

    As Wojnarowski explains (via Twitter), the trade between the Trail Blazers and Heat that will send Hassan Whiteside to Portland is becoming part of the transaction, with Maurice Harkless being re-routed to the Clippers to make it a four-team deal. The Clippers will also receive a future first-round pick from Miami, according to Woj.”

    All of this to get Butler?

  250. I know this isn’t basketball, but RIP Tyler Skaggs. 27 years old. Pitched 2 days ago. Now gone. No details but it’s shocking.

  251. @286
    They reported that We didn’t offer the max to Kd which looks either ballsy or just a cheap lie.

  252. “Man, the food there is not good and it’s also expensive, but at least they only give you small portions!”

    What positive reviews of the Knicks offseason sound like to me.

  253. It’s his life, so he can do what he wants, but Kawhi stretching this out is almost getting to be a bit of a dick move at this point, because there are a few other guys, including people who are nominally his friends, like Danny Green, who are waiting for his decision before they can do anything.

  254. So not only were there plenty of salary dumps available, there were literally enough to fill our space with Randle + salary dumps.

    What’s more, the guys dumped aren’t even bad! Would we really be any worse with Crabbe, Warren, Iguodala, and Harkless instead of Payton, Bullock, Ellington, Portis, and Gibson?

    It’ll be a looooooong time, folks.

  255. I am hoping to heck that this is some sort of weird Dolan edict. You know, like, “We don’t accept charity!” or something bizarre like that.

  256. I heard some guy on NBA radio point out that the Heat managed to get a top free agent without any cap space and the Knicks couldn’t get anyone with two max slots.

    I’m sorry, that’s just dumb shit and piling on. I’d trade our roster with Miami’s in 2 seconds, and that’s saying something with all the dreck we currently have.

  257. One of the basketball assistant coaches waves to me, saying, “hey! Julius Randle!” Followed by, “you guys gonna sign Kwame Brown and Sasha Vujacic too!”

    Fucking spoiled-ass Laker fans. – Assholes

    Spoiled fans is right – it’s so easy to be a Laker fan. It is Hard Fucking Work being a Knicks fan.

  258. I heard some guy on NBA radio point out that the Heat managed to get a top free agent without any cap space and the Knicks couldn’t get anyone with two max slots.

    I’m sorry, that’s just dumb shit and piling on. I’d trade our roster with Miami’s in 2 seconds, and that’s saying something with all the dreck we currently have.

    Yeah, Miami just took advantage of Jimmy Butler placing making the most money over anything else. Miami is not in a good position at all.

  259. What’s more, the guys dumped aren’t even bad! Would we really be any worse with Crabbe, Warren, Iguodala, and Harkless instead of Payton, Bullock, Ellington, Portis, and Gibson?

    Yeah, this is the maddening thing about all of it. Harkless is a weird player with a lot of noise in his career stat line, but he’s relatively young, generates some defensive stats, has a decent career eFG%… in other words, he’s not a total stiff. Salary is only 1/11M.

    TJ Warren’s contract runs for three more seasons so I can see why you want to avoid that dude. But a lot of these salary dumps were for one-year contracts of players who are not terrible.

    I guess that’s what happens though when fucking morons are allowed to make decisions.

  260. Honestly more of my musician friends think a slam dunk is the same thing as a touchdown and make fun of me for being into “sportsball” in the first place.

    Honestly if you told me that one of the backup singers on “Fright Night (Nevermore)” was this big a sports fan, I would have laughed at you myself

  261. There’s a zero percent GS sends Iggy to us after his comments and the Knicks spending the last several months blatantly recruiting their star player.

    Harkless would have been a good get with a pick.

  262. Honestly if you told me that one of the backup singers on “Fright Night (Nevermore)” was this big a sports fan, I would have laughed at you myself

    The specific line I used to sing on that was “open casket catastrophe”

    One of my favorite BV moments

  263. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve sung “I’m a necro-romantic, I’m a sucka ur blood” to Lady Jowles

    Between us birds, how did the 2011 band know to just play through the whole song at Coachella despite a notable lack of lead vocals?

  264. Portis is is a good 3 point shooter who (and you won’t believe this) takes far too many 2 point shots he’s bad at making and never gets fouled. kornet would be a better use of a roster spot

  265. Between us birds, how did the 2011 band know to just play through the whole song at Coachella despite a notable lack of lead vocals?

    AP was in a major funk that day, he had just gone through some bad personal shit and did not want to be there. We opened with two songs that we didn’t know very well and kind of flubbed both of them, so he stormed offstage. But we were determined to get the guarantee for that show, which was the biggest guarantee we had gotten for a show up to that point. So we talked him into going back out and finishing the set. When he went back out he just didn’t sing, for several songs, not just on that one tune. We just went right down the set list, kept playing whatever came next, sang our backup vocal parts, acted like everything was normal.

    We got the guarantee.

  266. I think Harkless is the only one of these salary dumps that we might have had a shot at

  267. Feel a bit better with the team option news. Makes Perry our best GM since …whenever.

    A lineup of Payton (who should get starter’s minutes imo with his competition), RJ, Knox (he has to get 30 mins to see if he improves), randle and Mitch is something I’d watch at least. Would also like to see Trier, Iggy and homeless man’s Anthony Randolph get major minutes.

  268. I’m OK with Randle, I’m OK with Payton, I’m OK with Bullock. With the other 3…..I don’t get what the rush was….especially on the bigs. If you want to argue that Portis is 23, and you had to pay to get him, then fine….but why sign Taj to that deal? And Ellington to me only makes sense at his age if you think he’s better than our young players, which is scary.

    If we had done Randle, Payton and Bullock, We’d have $20M to spend and time to burn.

  269. Why link to the ringer? Who cares what a 23 year old beard on a site run by a Celtics fan who loved the melo trade has to say about the Knicks.

  270. I heard some guy on NBA radio point out that …

    If I had a dollar for every time I wanted to say that….

  271. Trey Burke, -3.5 BPM, 689 MP

    Lol I recall some on here ready to give that scrub the keys to the batmobile a year ago.

  272. The Knicks aren’t getting anywhere close to 40 wins. It’s very possible Mitch is the only above average player on the roster. Other than Randle, maybe Payton, none of the players they signed factor into the long term plan. It’s a bid to be “respectable,” like what Phil did a few years ago.

  273. Re: shots fired at work, someone yelled at me that the Knicks signed Gary Payton.

  274. Oh yeah, but we got Wayne Ellington!

    Maybe he’ll take the A train to the Garden.

  275. We should be the one getting the first round pick and Mo harkless instead of signing any of our free agents signings. Common Knicks!!!

  276. Who cares what a 23 year old beard on a site run by a Celtics fan who loved the melo trade has to say about the Knicks.

    haha, I think you mean “neckbeard”

    “beard” is a different thing altogether hahahaha

  277. AP was in a major funk that day, he had just gone through some bad personal shit and did not want to be there. We opened with two songs that we didn’t know very well and kind of flubbed both of them, so he stormed offstage. But we were determined to get the guarantee for that show, which was the biggest guarantee we had gotten for a show up to that point. So we talked him into going back out and finishing the set. When he went back out he just didn’t sing, for several songs, not just on that one tune. We just went right down the set list, kept playing whatever came next, sang our backup vocal parts, acted like everything was normal.

    We got the guarantee.

    this is the kind of content I come here for, right here

  278. Yeah, and Iguodala is even getting bought out by the Grizzlies apparently, so it wouldn’t even matter if he hates the Knicks or whatever.

  279. @305: Yes, it is not easy at all to be a Knicks fan. But the love runs too deep.

    Doesn’t help that Randle was a Laker castoff (whom they could’ve actually used last year).

    Like, I’d go into shock trying to divorce myself of this team. It’d be akin to ripping out part of my soul. I could never look at a poster or footage of Ewing, Starks, Mase and Oakley and forgive myself. I’d need psychiatric counseling – it’d be like if I were a Sim and you reset all my personality counters.

    And nobody out here in fucking happy-ass, Guy Smiley smilin-ass, joy-joy feelin’ San Angeles-ass LA LA Land could ever understand.

  280. Golden State is rescinding their QO and Bell is signing with Minnesota for the minimum. That might have been a bit nicer than Portis or Gibson.
    So, Ed Davis – two years 10 million, Bell – one year minimum salary, Noel two years about 12 million.

    All of them I would have welcomed on this team. Yet we did Portis and Gibson for 25 million a year. Think about that.

  281. And nobody out here in fucking happy-ass, Guy Smiley smilin-ass, joy-joy feelin’ San Angeles-ass LA LA Land could ever understand.

    one of the most significant differences i noticed living out here in cali was the simple act of saying hello to someone…

    back in new york, you ask someone how they’re doing and you get their life’s story – usually the gritty and grimy parts too…it could get weird, but, interesting too…when you had heard enough – you’d tell em “hope all goes well for ya”, walk away and be done with it…

    out here in california you ask someone how their doing and it’s normally all sunshine and glib…and, it’ll go on and on and on…seems folks have a tough time ending ending conversations here…definitely doesn’t have that same “sincerity” to it…fortunately, being a new yorker – i have no problem ending a conversation…okay, bye…

    every once in a while at work someone will ask me how it’s going – and, i’ll tell them…shit, easier than going to confession, and, cheaper than seeing a therapist…

  282. Cap shit is confusing to me, but I think we could have signed Bell to a reasonable offer sheet the Warriors would have been unable to match because they’re hard capped. Not that Bell is awesome or anything, but he’s got more upside than Taj Gibson and he’s better than Bobby Portis.

  283. The Celtics fans happy about Kyrie leaving are about to have a bad time when Embiid and Simmons wreck them in the playoffs with Kanter playing center and Kemba trying to score on anyone on the Sixers.

  284. Jordan Bell got $1.6M and we gave $15.5M to Bobby Portis

    ok

  285. Yeah Celtics fans are acting like they just signed the anointed one in Kemba. I mean he’s pretty solid but they’re kind of delusional about him being some sort of predestined Celtic Legend or whatever.

  286. Considering we have dick at point, I’m just gonna say Kemba is better, despite the low opinion people here have if him.

    I’m feeling a bit like a beggar…who can’t be a chooser.

  287. Well, it’s not like we have to worry about facing the Lakers in the finals any time soon.

  288. Well, the “running your franchise into the ground and then attracting a major star and then two other ones because you’re in a desirable market” strategy DOES work.

  289. Indeed, it worked two out of three times (yes for Lakers and Nets, no for the Knicks). Maybe we just didn’t try hard enough at failing ;-)

  290. Going into the free agency period, a lot of smart people (and some dumb ones like me) were saying ” Please oh please don’t sign KD and Kyrie to max deals.” Now that it didn’t happen, some of those same people are saying, “See, no one good wants to come here! Life sucks!”

    Personally, I am feeling very Dayenu. Especially with all these 1+1 deals.

  291. Kemba Walker is a pretty good player, but all this talk about how he’s somehow better than Kyrie despite having worst stats and worse team results every single year is just stupidity to me. They downgraded from Kyrie and Horford to Kemba and Kanter, which is a gigantic difference.

    In the end with all the moves going down, I like what the Sixers have done. Butler didn’t want to stay, but they added Horford and Richardson who are plus defenders they have a legitimate scary starting lineup, I don’t see how anyone will score much against the monster that Simmons, Embiid, Horford and Richardson will be. They’ll have to figure it out on offense but Horford has become a pretty good shooter and passer and Richardson is a decent secondary ball handler and shooter. Now they got O’Quinn who is a good fit too.

  292. I think the GSW could have matched a Bell offer, right? Especially if it was a 1+1 deal? Does Bell sign that offer sheet anyway?

  293. GS is hardcapped, or almost hardcapped, so there’s a limit to what they can match I think.

  294. I was more interested in Noel, that would have been a solid get. It’s still a shit sandwich, but it’s not runny and it’s on a roll, not a sub.

  295. In this time of gloom and doom I’d like to remind Knickerbloggers that the following contracts were signed this offseason:

    DeAngelo Russel 4 years, $117 million to backup Steph Curry based on 1 year of average play.

    Jamal Murray 5 years, $170 million for league average play and a .539 ts% despite the fact he was a RFA next year and could not have signed a bigger offer.

    Harrison Barnes 4 years, $85 million for Portis level play.

  296. back in new york, you ask someone how they’re doing and you get their life’s story – usually the gritty and grimy parts too…

    out here in california you ask someone how their doing and it’s normally all sunshine and glib…

    And that’s the rub for us New Yorkers out here: the gritty and grimy, that’s real to us, that’s real life. Ups and downs. All that sunshine and glib just ain’t reality to us – it’s not possible for people to be that damn happy (seemingly) all the damn time.

    I’ll be right back – My former supervisor is still trolling me. He doesn’t even follow basketball!!!

  297. I love how we essentially signed the reasons that Anthony Davis wanted to leave New Orleans in the first place.

    So I’m guessing our new or projected starters are Payton, RJ, Knox, Randle, and Mitch?

    Payton seems like he’s at an age where he could “turn a corner” at that position, but he seems like terrible match with Barrett unless they both miraculously learn how to shoot. I guess Knox will return to bombing threes and playing no defense, while Randle gets his and tries haplessly to defend 4s… And Mitch is gonna Mitch. Idk maybe it’s more likely Bullock starts and they go slow with Knox?

    At best that’s a “solid” group if RJ has a great rookie campaign and Mitch proves he’s for real.

    This will be a long, slow beating of a year. Thank God for this blog and Tankathon.

  298. I just went through all teams cap situation via earlybirdrights.com (thanks pt!) and it appears on first glance that lots of teams are in undesirable cap situations, even bottom dwellers. Really and truly, ours is not that bad, relatively speaking.

  299. Who’s a better value at backup center?

    Bell at the minimum
    KOQ at the minimum
    Taj at $10m
    Portis at $15m

    Tough call, tough call.

  300. re: Jordan Bell, so if he’s such a good player and an RFA, why didn’t any other team with cap space throw an offer at him? Why did he take the minimum?

  301. re: Jordan Bell, so if he’s such a good player and an RFA, why didn’t any other team with cap space throw an offer at him? Why did he take the minimum?

    He’s not, but if you could get him at 2/$8M, would you? And if not, why?

  302. Russell is being given a ton of money because the Warriors are capped, right? I suspect he’s going to be traded for another player at some point, or they want to see how he plays as a creating guard next to Steph, who’s never really played with one himself — Klay is an amazing shooter but the guy looks odd when he puts the ball on the floor. He’s strong but not very shifty unless he’s running curls or something like that.

    So they’re adding an excellent passer who has some smooth ball skills to go with that improved shooting efficiency. Do I think he’s elite? Hell no, but if the choice is between nothing and a young guy who showed that he’s capable of improvement, and I’m opening a new stadium in the fall, I might be inclined to take the player and figure it out later.

  303. @350 Noel would have been the guy to target for backup center with all of our cap space….but noooo our front office wanted to stay with the “overpay for mediocre” theme.

    Most of my friends are complete Laker homer fanboys, living in San Diego that’s not uncommon. I’ve been hearing it for 30 years or so, so yeah I’m bitter when everything goes their way AGAIN and the Knicks are doomed to unending Dolan purgatory.

  304. Noel and Mitch would turn that D into a contender’s D in no time. Worry about the offense later.

    but nooooooooo WAYNE ELLINGTON TAJ GIBSON WHAT THE FU

  305. There were reports that the Warriors didn’t intend to keep Russell and were looking to flip him right away, which makes sense since they’re so far over the cap that the money Durant opens by leaving is immediately filled. If I’m not mistaken they have until July 6th to do it, which sounds like they’re kinda waiting on the Wolves to find a sucker to take Wiggins so they can include Russell in the transaction, or some other player they want from elsewhere. Or they’re just gonna keep him until Klay comes back from injury and see how it goes, then trade him if the fit doesn’t work.

    I feel a lot better being optimistic about Russell now that the Warriors have shown they are too, but if they keep him and he doesn’t develop it could be a big blunder in the end if he’s untradeable… I think it’s unlikely that he loses trade value completely anyway.

  306. Noel was the one I was hoping hard for. I think he is maybe the most underrated player in the NBA. At one point he was looking at a $70 million payday but he didn’t take it had one kind of bad season and now no one wants him. He was amazing last year and has been good for the last three including the “bad” season with Dallas.

    If we had him instead of Portis, even at the same money I would be happy with this offseason.

  307. Meanwhile I tune in for a second for the Warriors Kings summer league game, and the Wear Bear is playing for the Warriors. Nowhere is safe from the Knicks endless cycle of failures, there’s always a reminder somewhere.

  308. Meanwhile I tune in for a second for the Warriors Kings summer league game, and the Wear Bear is playing for the Warriors. Nowhere is safe from the Knicks endless cycle of failures, there’s always a reminder somewhere.

    His brother David played in Sydney last season. Let’s just say underwhelming basketball runs in the family……

  309. Most of my friends are complete Laker homer fanboys, living in San Diego that’s not uncommon. I’ve been hearing it for 30 years or so, so yeah I’m bitter when everything goes their way AGAIN and the Knicks are doomed to unending Dolan purgatory.

    Wanna back them up off you? Remind those fine folk that they lost their football team bc Dean Spanos is a punk-ass biatch who’s on the low end of the NFL ownership pecking order… lol

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