My French isn’t any good and Google Translate ain’t that much better…

But I also think that the minutes thing is mostly overblown by haters, and all of those teams got about as far as they should have gotten and lost to either better teams or similarly good teams with better coaches. No one (certainly not me) has ever disputed that Spo and Carlisle are better coaches than Thibs. I don’t blame the rash of injuries in Rounds 1 (Mitch, Bojan) and 2 (OG, Hart, Brunson) vs. Indy in 2024 on Thibs, any more than I credit him for having a healthy playoff roster in 2025. If folks want to fantacize about how much farther another coach could have taken those rosters, whatever.

Actuallty you have no way to judge what my statement was meant for, and since I am definitively telling you that it was meant for the context of his tenure with the Knicks, it’s kind of rude for you tell me otherwise.

“We are talking about his character flaw. It’s not a flaw we are stating only occurred in NY, so there’s no reason to limit it thusly.”

The character flaw you refer to is not even one that I am disputing. In fact, I have agreed ad infinitum that Thibs should not have played his starters as much as he did, specifically in games that were clearly decided. I don’t know how extensively you lurk, but just the other day I made a comment during a blowout about the o/u on how many starters would still be in the game late in the 4th of a 40+pt blowout.

What I’m arguing is that our bench actually was pretty thin every year before this one, and our margin for error in winning competitive games was pretty thin.

To suggest that Thibs should have played our better bench players should have played more minutes in non-blowouts is something I wholeheartedly agree with. Obi is a great example. The blowouts thing is a character flaw, no argument there. But that isn’t what this discussion is about.

Alec Burks? He played 300+ minutes after the Grimes trade and he was beyond awful (look at his stats!), but sure, maybe he should have been given another shot earlier than Thibs did, as Brown did with Clarkson. But Fournier was beyond washed. So was Kemba. So was Derrick Rose in 2023. Deuce was absolutely terrible in 2023 (but improved and averaged 20mpg during the regular season and 27mpg in the 2024 playoffs, should he jhave played more than that?) Sims was terrible. These guys didn’t suck at that time because they didn’t play enough minutes and weren’t prepared. They sucked because they sucked, either because they hadn’t developed (e.g Deuce), were washed up (e.g. Fournier), or just bad (e.g Precious).

I don’t see how anyone in their right mind could say that either the 2023, 2024, or 2025 rosters (starters and bench) were as good as the current one, especially post-trade deadline (with the possible exception of pre-Julius Randle injury in early 2024, although I would still probably take this roster over that one.) It just wasn’t. I think we all agree that Deuce 2026 is light years better than Deuce 2024. KAT pushed Mitch to the bench, so was iHart 2024 better than Mitch 2026? Was the remnants of Bojan better than Shamet? Was Burks better than Alvarado? Was Sims better than Huk? Was Precious better than Sochan? Was Shake better than Diawara?

I would take this year’s bench every day of the week and twice on Sundays. Unless, of course you believe that iHart 2024 is a massive upgrade over Mitch 2026.

– they can only carry 15 players on their roster

– they can only put 5 guys on the court at the same time

then the kemba walker thing happened…reprehensible, seemingly spiteful…

This response is flawed in two regards. First, you missed the part about “didn’t play at all under Thibs” and pointed out a guy who played 20-22 mpg under Thibs. Second, we were discussing Thibs’ tenure with the Knicks and you had to go back to 2012 for an example that didn’t even meet the criteria.

But I’d be happy to hear examples from his Knicks tenure that meet the criteria! Always time to learn!

Good players being totally out of the rotation under Thibs are the exception, not the rule. In fact, I can’t think of a single player who didn’t play at all under Thibs who went on to be a useful player elsewhere.

Yes you are correct that my example doesn’t directly contradict the exact words you chose to describe Thibs.

No you are wrong that your statement was meant only for his tenure with the Knicks. We are talking about his character flaw. It’s not a flaw we are stating only occurred in NY, so there’s no reason to limit it thusly.

But the essence of the topic at discussion was whether Thibs gave playing time to players who deserved it vs. Thibs relies too heavily on his trust circle and overplays those players to the detriment of his teams. I (and others) gave multiple examples of this, including specific games in a season where a rational coach would rest his starters and give his bench players more run. This would, as multiple people have noted, likely made his players less worn down/injury prone for the playoffs AND give those end of bench players better ability to perform within this team, their teammates, and his system.

So if you’re going to defend Thibs with this most narrow interpretation possible, then I’ll say having to find a superstar from his bench players is not an adequate enough argument to refute the facts and accusations already laid out.

I don’t need an All Star from Thibs bench players to show he doesn’t play his bench guys enough and isn’t infallible with regards to evaluating players. (Although I literally do with Korver.)

no jalen williams, shai on the bench and here comes ajay mitchell and jared mccain…

and they more draft picks coming…