If all you go on is the data these guys generate, you’re missing a whole lot — both analytically and aesthetically.

Bears repeating: The BB-ref page is downstream from and secondary to talent and skill set. That talent and skill set can be observed (*), though it can’t really be “quantified” and at some level can’t be “explained” to the novitiate — particularly the headstrong or stubborn versions thereof.

(*) It generates data that can certainly be observed, but that data is merely a conditional manifestation of the talent and skill set.

The word “detrimental” is hard to quantify. Does it mean that the team would be better off if the player shot better, or the team would be better off if his minutes were replaced with any random player at his “position” (another nebulous term in today’s nba, I prefer “role” such as high-usage/high-minutes starting large wing). This harkens back to the Randle vs. Obi debate last year, where I argued that the team would have lost even more games by reversing Randle’s and Obi’s minutes. The point being that a) Obi is simply not capable of playing as well as Randle is right now, he doesn’t have the skillset, and b) Obi is not suited for a high usage/high minutes starting big wing role…because he would be likely be targeted on both ends in a way that rendered him more detrimental than even Randle if his minutes were increased, probably winding up in foul trouble continuously.

I don’t know how to prove this other than for Randle to get hurt, and the guy had been pretty indestructable since we got him, so I’ll just have to agree to disagree with anyone who feels differently.

@Alan,

Have you ever made a list of best Christmas episodes?

Therefore, it follows logically that the reason he’s not scoring more efficiently is that he’s not shooting enough.

He’s still fairly young, he’s still tall and fairly mobile etc, so maybe you can make a case for keeping him around as a last 2-3 guys on the bench guy while you try to develop him, but there’s no real reason to play him if you’re trying to win games.

Cam doesn’t pass and he doesn’t personally score particularly efficiently-why would you want him to have the ball more? Guys with that profile kill offenses.

I know I’m throwing stones from a glass house on this one, but I still hate it.

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Pretty much this, yeah.

Welcome to “Team Pessimism,” Zach — new members buy first round!!

We have four pretty good players in the starting lineup right now and RJ’s past couple of weeks have been excellent. Everyone important is under 28.

I am not unhappy

The Knicks’ revamped starting five is plus-75 in 255 minutes — a complete flip-flop after two years of rollicking bench groups carrying punchless starting lineups. Grimes’s 3-and-D skill set meshes around three ball-dominant starters in Jalen Brunson, Julius Randle, and Barrett.

Brunson is a stabilizer who fits New York’s smash-mouth style. Having a competent point guard allows you to swap out ball handling (i.e. Fournier and Rose) for defense and spot-up shooting.

Grimes has hit 38.6% on 3s, but he’s more than a stand-still shooter. He can pump-and-go when defenders run him off the arc, and make the next play. He’s cutting and screening away from the ball, relocating for open 3s with defenses in scramble mode — injecting some needed unpredictability into New York’s thudding offense:

Grimes is as advertised on defense. In the past week alone, New York has used him on Zach LaVine, DeMar DeRozan, and Tyrese Haliburton. The Knicks are not afraid to switch him onto bigger players. (Randle seems to enjoy switching lately.)

Grimes is smart and stout, with impeccable balance.

He diagnoses that set early. Grimes trails Haliburton around one screen, and then flies out to Buddy Hield on an impromptu switch — staying down and attached on multiple fakes before inhaling Hield’s triple. (The Knicks on offense use Grimes as the back-screener — Hield’s role — in this same action.)

Time will tell whether New York’s (divided) brain trust was right to hold off on trading Grimes (and everything else) for Donovan Mitchell. I understood it at the time; New York did not have a ready-made contender around Mitchell as the Cleveland Cavaliers did. The Knicks’ path after a theoretical Mitchell trade was murky.

Their path to real contention now is murky. They remain a middle-of-the-road team. They’ll need a tentpole star, either via free agency or trade. Extending Quickley and Obi Toppin could shut off their future cap space.

But keep this up, and that’s two solid seasons in three years. Small victories lead to bigger ones.

5. The zig-zaggy creativity of Jalen Brunson
Brunson is averaging 21 points and 6 dimes on solid shooting — living up to his new contract. Few ball handlers combine Brunson’s fire-hydrant physicality with so much creativity. He has a deep bag of moves and fakes, and he strings them together in sequences — sometimes very long ones — that make sense to only him.

Like, what even is this:

That is 11 seconds of continuous, circular dribbling that somehow leads to a wide-open 3. Brunson stabs at defenders, fades back, hits them with hesitations and half-spins (he might be the reigning king of the Smitty fake spin) until something opens. Brunson is not super quick, but he’s really hard to grasp.

Look at him zig-zag through a zone defense!

Brunson might start possessions with an improvised guard-guard screen aimed at drawing a smaller defender he can overpower. The Knicks have scored 1.17 points per possession out of Brunson isolations — 14th among 103 ball handlers who have run at least 50 such plays, per Second Spectrum. Brunson going one-on-one more means Randle is doing it less — and as a result, with greater efficiency.

Brunson can screen for Randle and Barrett in inverted pick-and-rolls too. Switch, and the Knicks choose between mismatches. Help and recover, and someone pops open. New York has scored an astounding 1.33 points per possession trips featuring a Brunson ball screen — sixth among 249 players who have set at least 50, per Second Spectrum.

New York’s offense isn’t pretty. It’s still a blunt force weapon. But Brunson gives the Knicks more ways to aim that force in more directions. It’s brutality with variety, and it’s working.