First, the Orlando Magic won 22 games, fifteen games less than the Knicks. If we won 15 more games, we’d be one game ahead of the eventual EC champion Celts and one behind the EC team with the best record (Heat.) Its a huge difference.

Second, you are actually helping to make my argument. If Franz and Cole were actually better, or even as good as, Randle and RJ, then their teammates in the starting lineup and bench would have less “detrimental play” by their #1 and #2 options to overcome. But in fact, Cole and Franz were actually worse than Randle and RJ because defense is half of the game and both of them were terrible at it. I mean’ come on, do you really think they would have won fewer games if RJ and Randle replaced Cole and Franz?

Of course, they also had Jalen Suggs stinking up the court for 48 games, you know, the guy some tank advocates would have been thrilled to take if we had a top 4 pick (even #1), same guys who would have been thrilled to draft Killian Hayes in the top 4 (even #1) the year before.

Funny how when thenamestam says essentially what I’m saying, Hunert doesn’t call him silly or accuse him of trolling.

If that is what you actually said, we wouldn’t be having this argument. But it isn’t. What actually have said over and over is that Julius Randle was the most detrimental player to winning in the NBA. You also actually said that it wasn’t hard to win 37 games even with the two (3 with Kemba) most detrimental players in the NBA in the starting lineup. You just said his box score stats sucked (and again, if you stopped there I would largely agree) but is a BPM of 0.5 anywhere near the worst in the NBA? Is a VORP of 1.6 anywhere near the worst in the NBA? Last I checked, those were based on box score stats)

And offense is only one side of the ball. Was Randle also one of the worst defenders in the NBA (19th in Defensive Win Shares, 0.2 DBPM)?

What about rebounding? Randle was 13th in the NBA in total rebounds per game.

And then you make the leap to “we won 37 games because it’s easy” and credit, i dunno, Obi, Taj and IQ (statistically, he sucked too) for digging us out of holes that Randle and RJ dug for us, and somehow we would have won more games if they started and RJ and Randle were benched. Scarcely a mention of Burks, or Fournier, or Kemba, or even Mitch, who were all part of that mess.

Julius Randle had the most detrimental impact on winning in the NBA last year because he played 2,500 minutes and he was bad in them. Kevin Knox was worse than Julius Randle but he hardly played a meaningful minute all season so he caused no harm.”

Please stop patronizing. I totally understand what he’s trying to say. I simply don’t agree with it, nor do I agree with your (or his) contention that it’s “easy” for any non-tanking team to finish with 37 wins.

Same way I felt as when Thibs got the Coty award.
That players don’t matter much in the regular season as long as they defend HARD and coach keeps them accountable.

Julius Randle had the most detrimental impact on winning in the NBA last year because he played 2,500 minutes and he was bad in them. Kevin Knox was worse than Julius Randle but he hardly played a meaningful minute all season so he caused no harm.

What I said was if your box score stats sucked, your efficiency differential was among the worst in the NBA, and it was blatantly obvious to anyone watching a game that your performance was terrible, you were definitely very detrimental to your team.