The way that they’re playing, Randle and RJ are #1 and #2 options.

Randle should get locked down by the Knicks as soon as it should happen. We need to start accepting that Randle is getting a max deal. It doesn’t matter where he actually ranks amongst NBA players. When Reggie Miller proposed that he should be considered for all-NBA, it started the push in that direction.

RJ has become a stud. He’s bigger and stronger. He fixed his shooting and he’t impossible to stop when driving to the hoop. His defense is improving every day. Most important is he’s shown the ability to improve.

(Season) Pts/Reb/Ast – FG%/3pt%/FT%
(2019-20) 14.3/5.0/2.6 – 40.2/32.0/61.4
(2020-21) 17.3/5.7/3.0 – 44.8/38.1/73.4

Time to get greedy. Keep the streak going!!!

randle is also a bit of a team building constraint as a max in that he probably only maxes out his value playing with a good rim protector and without a ball dominant offensive player. i guess you could argue against the latter.

Right. As you say, “without a ball dominant offensive player.” Right now we have two offenses: Point-Randle and Point-Guard. When Randle is hitting, Point-Guard offense (Elf or Rose) needs only to function for about ten minutes. When Randle is off, we all shout at the TV and wish we had a solid PG who could finish. In a way, I think we’ve been giving other teams some trouble (eye test) exactly because we have two distinct playing styles.

So. Can Randle maintain this level? Who knows? Probably not. And I totally get your point about an Iron Man collapse, which dovetails exactly with all of our worries about his minutes (and RJ’s minutes!). But — if Randle can keep near this production, and RJ is #2, then we need a totally different skill set for guy #3, right? Someone who just knocks down threes automatically and doesn’t need the ball (someone like Novak, Kerr, Korver). I think Thibs is trying to simulate that particular idea with Bullock. Super-Burks also confuses the opposition well, because he does a little of both (catch/shoot and handle/finish).

i have no idea how good rj is going to be. if he really turned into jimmy butler that would moot everything else. but i kinda suspect he won’t reach that tier. it’s still great to have a 20 yr old like rj, a beast like randle, an interesting rookie like iq and an elite tryhard defense. but we’ve also had a disappointing start from an older lottery pick and a mixed y3 from mitch.

recently it’s been pretty easy to run the knicks: do almost anything except the sort of shit we did. now it’s far from easy. there are multiple palatable options,
but there is also a trap where you are capped out with a randle beal rj type team that is never a good bet to contend. i think we went from years of d- future prospects to, say, a solid b.

So if we agree with that assessment, then Kyrie’s skill set (by type) seems to be the missing piece (or do folks disagree). In our offense now, I suspect Thibs is trying in vain to wring that exact skillset from Elf and Rose, kind of as a placeholder for the right guy to come. He’s using Super-Burks the same way in the 4th.

From elsewhere — Ball and Beal have been discussed, but I don’t see those guys as meshing well (each for different reasons).

From home — Can Burks improve/keep going? Is there no chance IQ becomes that guy? His handle seems to suck, but …

From the draft — Do we still go for “best player available” or do we really try hard to land “that skill set” thanks to a combination of trades?

KB Apprentice: Bruno (and all) I’m curious why the board does not believe these guys can evolve into our #1 and #2 options — even if we draft/develop a more consistent threat from three.

For Randle and RJ, what in their games will keep them from reaching top tier?

I’ll hazard a guess:

1) Randle is 26. He’s probably not adding too much more to his repertoire. Some people will say he’s just getting started, look how much he added in 1 offseason!! But pessimists, right or wrong, will point to his career averages & the outlier season he’s having from 3 to say this is probably his best year. He’s unlikely to shoot 41% from 3 ever again & if he doesn’t that TS% goes down faster than Wylie Coyote tied to an acme anvil.

2) RJ looks amazing this year for a sophomore. But his efficiency needs to climb much higher & so does his usage to get to the #1 scorer level. Not everyone predicted RJ to be a superstar & you shouldn’t necessarily change that view based on a good or bad season. Ingram made the improvement, so might RJ. But it’s much easier getting to the #2 or #3 talent spots and it’s not clear if RJ has the extra ‘it’ to get to Lebron’s level for instance. That’s not even a knock on RJ, but there’s only so many generational talents you can have in a generation.

Randle has shown he can be the 2nd best player in a very good team, and if Barrett keeps progressing in this path he’s pretty much a very good 3rd option. We still need the hardest part, which is finding at least one more top level player to be the other guy.

Bruno (and all) I’m curious why the board does not believe these guys can evolve into our #1 and #2 options — even if we draft/develop a more consistent threat from three.

For Randle and RJ, what in their games will keep them from reaching top tier?

We seem to have three starters locked up – very good 2nd/3rd options who can create a bit with the ball in hand and a good, affordable defensive anchor in the middle. We have a good defence. But we struggle on Offense in both the half court and transition and could use more three point volume.

So we need a PG and a wing who between them address these issues and move us on a couple of levels. In that context the debate about Ball is really interesting. He’d help D, transition offense and shooting, but probably not massively in terms of halfcourt unless he has a lot more than he’s showing in that area. That makes me feel like if we sign him for 20-25m, we’re left really trying to thread the needle on the wing, where we’d need to acquire or develop a real 2-way star in the Kawhi/Butler mould – someone who can be your lead offensive threat in the half court and your closer, and who can also create for others. Beal and Lavine look like the wings who might become available and are closest to that description, and neither is on that level. Boston isn’t giving up Tatum or Brown any time soon. Who else is the right age and the right player profile?

Makes me think that we need to find a better fit at PG than Ball (who in the abstract I really like), because finding a wing in that level or who can get there in the next few years feels very hard.

Correct me if i’m wrong but i remember “team pessimism” being far more active on this blog before this season,

I can only speak for myself, but I remain extremely uncomfortable with Derek Rose. I am back to watching games tho, and I don’t love that about me. Team is solid tho. Win curve, keep Randle and the trio at center, try like hell to upgrade in the draft to Cade. Sell the extra picks, sell our own picks. This is a. 500 team. We need a savvy youth punch to get above that, then we can add vets. Chasing existing guys is an expensive suckers game, but we’re definitely at the point where trading in the future for a future is a good idea. If we can’t do that, well, see what else shakes out but don’t do anything desperate that locks us out if it fails.