Hubert: I think most of us are fine Obi is glued to the bench. He’s playing terribly.

Some folks here think he should play more, either for developmental purposes, or because his advanced stats aren’t terrible for the minutes he’s playing. I think it’s just about the right amount.

Hubert: The issue here seems to be that some think the achievement of a .500 record is enough that anyone who disagrees with him should yield bc we’ve never had it so good.

This is not even close to accurate. No one is satisfied with a .500 record as a high water mark. The disagreement is about whether it is a sign of good things or bad things in the future. It’s pretty insulting that you boil anyone’s argument down to the simple proposition above.

Hubert: I’m not convinced we’ve turned a corner.

Totally valid.

Hubert: I remember having the same conversations with the same people many times before. When we were .500 with Afflalo and Derrick Williams, all those stupid player option contracts were supposedly vindicated. When we were .500 with Rose & Melo, Phil Jackson had us headed in the right direction. When we were .500 with Porzingis, he was a max player who we just had to pay.

And you’ve been wrong a whole bunch of times as well. For example, you thought Fizdale would be a fine coach. Please don’t act all “here we go again.” The archives will prove just as embarrassing for you as most others.

Hubert: No one is anti-Thibs, there’s just a lot of premature ejaculation from the usual suspects who get way too excited at the earliest sight of mediocrity.

Lovely.

Hubert: Also, I’m deeply concerned that ptmilo is right about Frank possibly having developed and if we miss out on that bc we’re obsessed with Bullock, Burks, and Elf, that’s a critical error.

Totally fair.

1. A good young core in Quickley, Barrett, and Robinson
2. Surplus first round draft picks in two out of the next three drafts
3. No bad long-term contracts on the books
4. A current roster that is playing .500 ball

It’s been a real long time since we had a situation like this, where we’re not asset-starved and where the team we’re actually fielding is not the dregs of the league. I don’t have a ton of faith that the front office is going to remain patient, and I’m expecting the “we traded for Russell Westbrook” shoe to drop any day, but as of right now things look somewhat promising.

Beyond playing eastern teams more, though, there is also the reality that .500 is good for home court advantage in the east at the moment, and is out of the playoff picture in the west. It’s part of the “smoke and mirrors” of the team’s success. (Of course, there is also the part that isn’t smoke and mirrors, which is actual improvement, it’s just not as extreme as the record indicates, I don’t think).

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The issue here seems to be that some think the achievement of a .500 record is enough that anyone who disagrees with him should yield bc we’ve never had it so good.

I’m not convinced we’ve turned a corner. I remember having the same conversations with the same people many times before. When we were .500 with Afflalo and Derrick Williams, all those stupid player option contracts were supposedly vindicated. When we were .500 with Rose & Melo, Phil Jackson had us headed in the right direction. When we were .500 with Porzingis, he was a max player who we just had to pay.

No one is anti-Thibs, there’s just a lot of premature ejaculation from the usual suspects who get way too excited at the earliest sight of mediocrity.

Also, I’m deeply concerned that ptmilo is right about Frank possibly having developed and if we miss out on that bc we’re obsessed with Bullock, Burks, and Elf, that’s a critical error.

I think most of us are fine Obi is glued to the bench. He’s playing terribly.

I wasn’t into sports in the 80s, so I didn’t know anything about Doug Collins when he coached the Bulls. The short of it is that he turned the Bulls around and got them from bad to good. But Jordan & Co couldn’t get past the Pistons in the playoffs and he was replaced – GM Krause had a liking for one of his assistant coaches who we all know, and wanted Collins to incorporate said assistant’s ideologies into his plans (such ideology involved a 3-sided polygon that would ease the team’s total dependency on Jordan). Collins refused, he got let go, and the legend of Chief Triangle was birthed.

My point? Thibs may or may not be our Phil Jackson in the long run, but he can be our Doug Collins – the guy who gets us from consistently bad to consistently good and then gets replaced when it’s clear the coach’s system is keeping the team from making that final leap to true championship contender.

The Infamous Cdiggy: What puzzles me, though, is that I see some here are holding their methods against our current management and coaching staff to the point that they’re too far entrenched in what the coach/management isn’t doing. This would be fine if the Knicks were doing their normal fuckery, but there’s just too much evidence that the organization has turned a hard corner towards competency and maybe even good decision making (good, not perfect) to ignore that while continue to pound the doom-n-gloom drum.

Amen

geo:
i do get it early bird, vigorous discourse is like a game or activity for a lot of folks…for whatever reason the only person i feel competitive towards is myself…

it almost sounds odd – but, i can’t imagine any gain towards “proving” myself more correct or “better” than some one else…maybe i don’t really get it…

You know, geo, I’ve had to learn that sometimes there’s more important things than being right. And it’s tough for me because the truth matters deeply to me and is a function of how I carry myself. Being married and living here in LA, I’ve had to learn to tamper some of my dogma, or at least learn to express my truths and believes without the whole “I’m right/you’re wrong” angle.

I know many of us have very specific methods on how they would build and manage an NBA team. And a .500 record – while far beyond our collective expectations – still allows for half-glass full vs empty viewpoints. What puzzles me, though, is that I see some here are holding their methods against our current management and coaching staff to the point that they’re too far entrenched in what the coach/management isn’t doing. This would be fine if the Knicks were doing their normal fuckery, but there’s just too much evidence that the organization has turned a hard corner towards competency and maybe even good decision making (good, not perfect) to ignore that while continue to pound the doom-n-gloom drum.

BTW: in regards to the debate about Randle’s improvement, that Undefeated article points to Kenny Payne being a root cause of it. I feel like in the whole “Thibs is a win-now coach” narrative, it’s not discussed enough the potential impact of his assistant coaches. Maybe… just maybe… Leon Rose & co have found the right team of assistants to balance Thibs’ style and negate enough of his liabilities…?