Hubert: The foundation is what made them believe if they fought, they could attain.

^ and I can bring proof for this:

“We have an injunction and we’re going into court tomorrow morning to fight this illegal, unconstitutional injunction. All we say to America is, “Be true to what you said on paper.” If I lived in China or even Russia, or any totalitarian country, maybe I could understand some of these illegal injunctions,” King said.

“Maybe I could understand the denial of certain basic First Amendment privileges, because they hadn’t committed themselves to that over there. But somewhere I read of the freedom of assembly. Somewhere I read of the freedom of speech. Somewhere I read of the freedom of press. Somewhere I read that the greatness of America is the right to protest for right. And so just as I say, we aren’t going to let dogs or water hoses turn us around, we aren’t going to let any injunction turn us around. We are going on.”

Imagine if Dr King believed, wrongly, that the Constitution didn’t apply to him. Imagine if the writers of those documents had said “these inalienable rights don’t apply to the slaves we hold and their descendants.” This is why it’s the text that matters, not whether or not the author held a slave when he wrote it. It ain’t pedantic.

People are saying that the fact that slavery was present and allowed for at the time of our country’s founding does not mean that racism is a core value that we founded this country on. The fact that POC needed to fight for their rights is a terrible mark on our history and a testament to the prevailing culture of racism that we need to abolish. But it is not the foundation. The foundation is what made them believe if they fought, they could attain.

And we’re not saying it to be pedantic. We’re saying it bc we want to focus on what *are* truly the founding principles, bc we can use them right now to do something.

I might as well channel President Obama and make this a “teachable moment” just in case you think I cherry picked Jefferson.

Look up Sam Adam’s reaction to Shay’s Rebellion and Washington’s reaction to the Whiskey Rebellion if you think any of the founder had any problem with using state/federal power to maintain order.

Generally speaking the only thing that concerned the founders more that an all powerful executive was the tyranny of the mob.

Ha Ha Ha Ha…. you guys really aren’t very smart, are you?

FYI the Insurrection Act was signed into law by one of the Founders named Thomas Jefferson in 1807….. so I’m guessing he thought it was OK, huh??? looooolllll

Jefferson was the first to invoke it. In more modern history it was used by Woodrow Wilson, FDR (your two statist heros), Kennedy, Eisenhower, LBJ and Bush.

It was used in 1943, 1962, 1967, 1968, 1968, 1968 and 1992 precisely to quell out of control riots in Detroit, Ole Miss University, Detroit, Washington, DC, Baltimore, Chicago and Los Angeles.

Any more smart assed questions history boy…. you guys should really sue the people that taught you American History.

it’s extremely weird that you continue to intentionally alienate potential allies

has it been decided yet if strat is getting voted off the island…

Maybe I’m too demanding, but it seems like if they cared about establishing a genuine democracy they would have done that, just like if we cared about having a genuine democracy today we wouldn’t disenfranchise felons or those without IDs, or make some attempt to improve voter participation, or get money and special interests out of politics.

a). improve voter participation – yay
b). get money and special interests out of politics – woo hoo
c). disenfranchise felons or those without IDs – when it comes to voting, oh hell no, disenfranchise away

my civic thought is – two years of some sort of service prior to having a vote…can you even imagine how much shit we could get down in this country with millions serving the greater good at a relatively low salary cost…like delivering food to the elderly – of which one day in the not so distant future will most likely serve me well…yes, everyone should serve – let’s just not make it retroactive, that’s all…you know, a going forward kind of thing…sort of a tax on the young…

seems fair enough to me…

Hmmmm…. I’m pretty sure they were interested in a republic where there were impediments to the concentration of power and the tyranny of the mob. They completely foresaw etatists like yourselves and dropped in land mines like the electoral college and checks and balances to thwart you. Their prescience was God-like.

That is why you hate them so……they saw you coming…….

And for the record slavery wasn’t abolished in British possessions until 1833. Women weren’t given the vote in England til 1928