2020-2021 Game Thread: Knicks @ Clippers – California Dreaming

Better late than never on the game thread…

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209 thoughts to “2020-2021 Game Thread: Knicks @ Clippers – California Dreaming”

  1. Now with a game thread all is good and we’ll blow out the Clippers :D

  2. cybersoze:
    Now with a game thread all is good and we’ll blow out the Clippers :D

    Yup. Just moved to a different chair. We got this.

  3. Gonna be very very tough to win this one, especially with no Burks or IQ to spark us off the bench

  4. KB Apprentice: Yup. Just moved to a different chair. We got this.

    LOL, i’m on the same chair, but i’ll think about it at halftime ;)

  5. d-mar:
    Gonna be very very tough to win this one, especially with no Burks or IQ to spark us off the bench

    No Knox believers? Only me? :D

  6. Rose’s style of play is rare in today’s NBA,
    he’s shooting more threes but for the most part he’s still playing like it’s 2011.
    It’s a nice visual contrast with the current style… And it works!
    (Another player in this mold is DeRozan)

  7. Another huge advantage of avoiding the play in is it gets you 5 off days before the playoffs start and the Knicks could certainly use that break.

  8. cybersoze: LOL, i’m on the same chair, but i’ll think about it at halftime ;)

    Stay where you are. This is going well now ;-)

  9. It’s cool that we hung in there, defense has been solid, but without IQ and Burks it’s hard to see how we’ll have enough juice down the stretch. Hope I’m wrong!

    Sure would be nice right about now if our 2017 and 2018 lottery picks were NBA players but oh well.

  10. What a he-man end to the half (don’t tell my uber-feminist wife I said that on Mother’s Day)

  11. The Italian broadcasters just described Rose’s first half as “a lavish simphony”
    and praised the Knicks resilience.

  12. Grasshopper IQ’s got a lot to learn from Master Rose about The Art of the Long Floater

  13. The way Rose has learned to get to spots and navigate the areas of the court is really unexpected to me, very few guys who were athletic freaks and lost that ability learn to do this.

    It’s so difficult because as soon as Elf, Frank etc have to play minutes we’re screwed again, but it’s been a good game to watch for sure so far.

  14. When can we use Vildoza? I’m getting kinda worried Thibs might break Rose again (g-d forbid).

  15. I can’t believe it, but there are times I think Rose is the best player on this team.

    Remember when we (well, some of us, anyway) were afraid of extending him? Now a 2
    year deal for Derrick Rose is likely to be one of the best contracts in the NBA next year!

    As great as he’s playing, I don’t think he has the narrative force behind him to get big offers that we wouldn’t want to match.

  16. Z-man:
    What a he-man end to the half (don’t tell my uber-feminist wife I said that on Mother’s Day)

    He-Man was my favorite cartoon as a little kid!

  17. Rose has obviously lost a lot of athleticism. That impacts what he can do. But in some ways he plays the game better now than he did in his MVP year.

  18. We always talk about who’ll be re-signed between Bullock, Burks and Noel, and rightly so,
    but we all know Rose will stay here until Thibs is the coach right?

  19. Hubert:
    I can’t believe it, but there are times I think Rose is the best player on this team.

    Remember when we (well, some of us, anyway) were afraid of extending him? Now I think a 2
    year deal for Derrick Rose is likely to be one of the best contracts in the NBA next year!

    As great as he’s playing, I don’t think he has the narrative force behind him to get big offers that we wouldn’t want to match.

    I’m with you. And I think Rose really wants to play/succeed here. It’s the perfect redemption situation for him.

  20. Elf must go, so there’s no way we let DRose go away in the offseason (unless it’s an overpay).

  21. Deeefense:
    I wonder if Bob Baffert secretly trains Derrick Rose.

    LOL.

    Likewise, I have been avoiding letters that sound like “aitch jee aitch” on this board.

  22. I’ve always thought Bullock was the most important signing, but now Rose is right up there with him. Noel & Burks are nice to have but if we can upgrade the team elsewhere, they’re the ones I’d part ways with.

    This Payton stuff can’t happen in the playoffs.

  23. Elf is there to lull the opponent into a false sense of security and for nothing else.

  24. I’ve always thought Bullock was the most important signing, but now Rose is right up there with him. Noel & Burks are nice to have but if we can upgrade the team elsewhere, they’re the ones I’d part ways with.

    I’m with you. Keep Bullock and DRose.

    This Payton stuff can’t happen in the playoffs.

    There, i corrected it. ;)

  25. Another gem from the Italian broadcast:
    “it’s really difficult the play on offense when your PG is a player like Payton…”

    :-)

  26. Payton just tried a Rose floater and the result made me laugh out loud…

  27. That Payton shot has me wondering if we can get Vildoza on an F-35 to LA

  28. thibs is a stubborn mofo…payton has to be pushing him to the limit though…if thibs had even a slight upgrade …payton would be an afterthought

  29. Friday he was still in Spain, some immigration issue.

    Update: Vildoza, i mean.

  30. Mark Jackson: “He [Payton] doesn’t get enough credit”
    WTF is he talking about??

  31. Our defense truly makes everything difficult even for some of the best players on Earth and boy I am still not used to that

  32. KB Apprentice: Stay where you are. This is going well now ;-)

    You were right, i’m leaving this chair in the same place for the rest of the season :D

  33. thenoblefacehumper:
    Our defense truly makes everything difficult even for some of the best players on Earth and boy I am still not used to that

    What about our offense?

  34. cybersoze:
    Mark Jackson: “He [Payton] doesn’t get enough credit”
    WTF is he talking about??

    Yeah, Clyde sometimes says much the same thing, so ….

    thenoblefacehumper:
    Our defense truly makes everything difficult even for some of the best players on Earth and boy I am still not used to that

    For real. It makes me so happy.

  35. It really does feel that one or two more pieces that can score efficiently and this team has a chance against anyone, Kawhi and George are being as well defended as possible really. This team still struggles with quick guards and physical centers, but the defense is very well set to deal with star wing players.

  36. BigBlueAL:
    I’m beginning to believe we can win this game…

    You gotta start naming the wins. ;) What’s the name for today’s win? The most important win of the season? :)

  37. cybersoze: You gotta start naming the wins. ;) What’s the name for today’s win? The most important win of the season? :)

    Most shocking win of the season?

  38. We need Randle and Barrett to step up, our defense has been very good but we need someone to share the burden with Bullock and Rose on offense…

  39. Get Randle out of there. “Put Obi in”. Words I never thought I’d say. lol

  40. Just thinking there was no classic third quarter collapse. Have to remember to wait for the quarter to end before thinking that.

  41. Deeefense:
    Get Randle out of there.“Put Obi in”. Words I never thought I’d say. lol

    Hahaha. This season is insane.

  42. What a swing, Knicks up 10 about to go on a fastbreak off a steal but can’t control the ball which leads to an open 3pter then come down and turn it over for an easy dunk and the lead is cut in half.

  43. BigBlueAL:
    What a swing, Knicks up 10 about to go on a fastbreak off a steal but can’t control the ball which leads to an open 3pter then come down and turn it over for an easy dunk and the lead is cut in half.

    Can we handle success?

  44. Only blemish on Rose this game is 4 turnovers including 2 awful passes for dunks on the other end

  45. RJ screaming for the ball and then draining the three is just what this team needs. He’s our closer.

  46. Z-man:
    RJ was open for like 5 minutes before Rose found him

    I was literally screaming at my TV to pass it to RJ.

  47. Great d by Barrett

    And amazing shot by Randle

    Mark Jackson is never changing…

  48. Pretty good team right Kawhi? Now picture it with you on it!

  49. d-mar:
    Might be RJ’s best defensive performance this season

    Yeah. He was on Kawhi a lot tonight, too (I think).

  50. That defensive play by RJ on PG was just soooo nice to see!!! Let’s go Julius!!

  51. As i said on one of the previous threads “let’s sweep the LA teams” :D

  52. Great win!

    I wrote that this was nearly impossible without IQ and Burks, but with this team maybe nothing is impossible.

    Julius came up big in the clutch, Rose and a Bullock with great games,
    Taj made a million of little things, RJ and Obi with good contribution.

  53. DudesTown:
    Did Bullock play the whole second half? It sure seems that way.

    Both Bullock and RJ played entire 2nd half I believe.

  54. Great win! DRose was amazing

    I hope we get to see Vildoza before the end of regular season.

  55. This game reminds me of winning at OKC late in the 2013 season, late season road win against an elite West team proving the Knicks are a legit good team.

  56. This has gotta be the win of the season. It was always a long shot and when IQ and Burks were both announced as out I pretty much wrote off the possibility entirely.

    Rose is obviously the player of the game, but RJ’s defense on, again, some of the best players on the planet was something to behold.

  57. Bullock played 46 minutes! Barrett played 45. Wow.
    Hard to argue with success…

  58. thenoblefacehumper:
    This has gotta be the win of the season. It was always a long shot and when IQ and Burks were both announced as out I pretty much wrote off the possibility entirely.

    Rose is obviously the player of the game, but RJ’s defense on, again, some of the best players on the planet was something to behold.

    Picture RJ in 2 more years. He’s going to be a beast.

  59. The magic number with the Celtics to clinch the “real” playoffs is down at 2.

  60. Probably the best win of the season, defense kept the intensity for the entire game and we survived against a damn good team, with both Leonard and George, while playing Frank, Obi etc for relevant minutes.

    Please IQ and Burks come back soon, and let’s go sweep LA next!

  61. best we’ve looked against a quality opponent all year… very tough for either side to get quality looks.. randle just hit those tough shots and the clips didn’t… the iso randle stuff is bad in the regular season but come playoff time it will be very useful and today was illustrative of why…

  62. We may not be the most talented team around but our Mental Toughness seems All Nba level.

  63. The last two losses made the stakes of this game pretty high. Very satisfying win. Can’t say enough good things about this team.

  64. That was a team win…everyone who played contributed. Even Frank hit a 3. But the most amazing thing is that we are beating teams with the 3-ball. We continue to shoot way better than our opponents from there.

    As to defense, we just held the #1 3pt shooting team in the league to the usual 34%. Guess we’re not regressing to the mean any more, huh?

  65. I would say this is our most impressive regular season win since like 2013.

  66. KB Apprentice
    May 9, 2021 at 4:26 pm
    KB Apprentice: Yup. Just moved to a different chair. We got this.

    cybersoze
    May 9, 2021 at 4:29 pm
    LOL, i’m on the same chair, but i’ll think about it at halftime ;)

    huh, how’d you all end up in the same chair???

    i’m giddy, like a little kid…didn’t catch most of the game – but, there’s a replay at six…thankfully ma’s got spectrum, so, i’m not shut out for this game…

  67. Z-man:
    I would say this is our most impressive regular season win since like 2013.

    Mentioned it earlier, to me the most impressive regular season win since winning at OKC during the 13 game winning streak late in the 2013 season.

  68. Everyone contributed, but if D Rose doesn’t make basically every shot he took in the first half, we probably get down by 15+ and it’s a whole different game

  69. BigBlueAL: Mentioned it earlier, to me the most impressive regular season win since winning at OKC during the 13 game winning streak late in the 2013 season.

    But that was a 54 win team that was expected to win. This is a fledgling team that is clawing its way into the playoffs against all odds and any loss right now would be hugely detrimental. To win on the tail end on a long WC road trip after two shellacings against a true contender on national TV is beyond my wildest dreams from the preseason. You truly have to pinch yourself to believe that this is even real.

  70. geo:
    i wonder what drose’s price will be now for next season…

    Bullock too. He’s been great the second half of the season. Keeping this team together and maintaining enough space to fit a max guy looks a whole lot tougher than it did a month or two ago. Those two would be my priority, then Noel and then Burks. Rose will be interesting because he’s played for peanuts the last two years- this might be his last shot at another multi-year, good money deal. I don’t think 2/15m (his current deal) gets it done this off-season.

  71. I think Bullock and Rose are going to be fairly easy to sign in the $10-12mm AAV range.

  72. Owen:
    That was a really great win

    (Edit: Everybody pipped me)

    Owen, can’t thank you enough, it was the game thread that fueled us. :)

  73. Z-man: But that was a 54 win team that was expected to win. This is a fledgling team that is clawing its way into the playoffs against all odds and any loss right now would be hugely detrimental. To win on the tail end on a long WC road trip after two shellacings against a true contender on national TV is beyond my wildest dreams from the preseason. You truly have to pinch yourself to believe that this is even real.

    Tough to choose then cause when was the last regular season the Knicks did this well that came so out of nowhere? The 1990’s Knicks were supposed to do good and same for the early Melo teams. This might be most shocking win on the road since winning Game 1 at Chicago in the 1992 playoffs? Maybe winning Game 5 at Indiana in the 1999 playoffs cause once Ewing got hurt and the Knicks lost Game 4 at home I thought the series was over even though it was tied 2-2 at that point.

    Seriously this Knicks season is completely unprecedented at least in my lifetime.

  74. I hope we get Burks and Quick back for the next game. I have a sneaking suspicion James will back for that game to play NY, but if we can beat the Clippers, we can beat the Lakers when they are less than 100%. Being close to 100% ourselves would really help.

  75. Hubert:
    I think Bullock and Rose are going to be fairly easy to sign in the $10-12mm AAV range.

    The biggest thing we have going for us is that we know Rose WANTS to play in NY for Thibs and I have to think Bullock is having a great time in NY also. Rose is going to be back. It might take a premium to drag Bullock out of NY. I think he’ll be back unless we wind up upgrading in the off season.

  76. Z-man:
    btw where’s E?

    I guess his absence makes total sense, as he only says bad things about the Knicks and there’s nothing bad to say nowadays. ;)

  77. Hubert:
    I can’t believe this is RJ at age 20. What a player.

    What a relief. I’ve always been on the side “RJ is good” but at the beggining of the season i really needed djphan’s posts defending him to keep believing. Now, i don’t even think i agree with the article Alan posted with some GMs saying that he won’t be a franchise player, because he’s only 20 and have a LOT of room to grow.

  78. Hubert: hey, we still have Frank & Knox.

    LOL ;)
    Well, we still have Payton. :P But i’m starting to believe in DudesTown theory, Thibs uses Payton as bait for our opponents to lower their guard because it’s going to be easy, then we put DRose in and they don’t even know what striked them.

  79. hope ya’ll are having a good ma’s day…i got to be honest – not to sound too shallow in my existence, but, early in the day knick wins makes the air seem a little better to breathe…

    getting ready to go walking with a smooth 24k presidential up in the wild etiwanda area…one of the nicest things about ma’s spot – there’s good dirt you can get your feet on within 10 minutes or so…thinking happy knick thoughts :)

  80. Payton is the equivalent of an innings-eating #5 starter. He is a minutes-eater so that Rose and IQ are rested for crunch time.

  81. btw where’s E?

    To be fair, if your brand consisted entirely of these three opinions…

    1) Frank Ntilikina is great
    2) Julius Randle sucks
    3) Tom Thibodeau is a horrible coach

    …would you be showing up much these days?

  82. If we could keep Rose, Bullock and Noel for $30 mill AAV over the next 2-3 years, I’m totally down with that.

  83. thenoblefacehumper: To be fair, if your brand consisted entirely of these three opinions…

    1) Frank Ntilikina is great
    2) Julius Randle sucks
    3) Tom Thibodeau is a horrible coach

    …would you be showing up much these days?

    yeah it was a rhetorical dig…if you’re lurking E, suck it!

  84. Payton is the equivalent of an innings-eating #5 starter. He is a minutes-eater so that Rose and IQ are rested for crunch time.

    I wish he were!

    He’s more like the #5 starter with an ERA over 5.00 who gives up 3 runs in the first inning every game.

    Not much Thibs can do now but when the playoffs come I hope Rose is staring and Burks/IQ are covering the backup mins.

  85. thenoblefacehumper: Frank Ntilikina

    I really thought that when Frank’s rookie contract was up, he’d at least get 2 more, say one year at San Antonio and one year at some dumb team like Cleveland or Detroit. But now i’m thinking the kid is really focused on getting back home to europe. He’s going from bad to worse.

  86. StatMuse:
    Derrick Rose today: 25 PTS, 5 REB, 8 AST, 11-17 FG.
    He is the first Knick with a 25/5/5 game on 60% shooting off the bench since Nate Robinson in 2010.

  87. cybersoze: I really thought that when Frank’s rookie contract was up, he’d at least get 2 more, say one year at San Antonio and one year at some dumb team like Cleveland or Detroit. But now i’m thinking the kid is really focused on getting back home to europe. He’s going from bad to worse.

    I never understood why Frank didn’t get lots of minutes in the g league to hone his craft. He needed the opportunity.

  88. I honestly don’t think Rose will demand much money in the off-season, no matter how well he’s been playing. He had a 50 point game for Minnesota and averaged 18 ppg with them, and still only signed for 2 years 15 million with the Pistons the next off-season. Now he’s 2 years older, with plenty of money in the bank, playing for the team he likes with the coach he loves, I think anything around another 2 year, 7.5 million per year deal and he takes it. He tried ring chasing with the Cavs that one year and it worked terribly, and doesn’t seem like that’s his priority anyway.

  89. I watched bits of the game here and there but only the last few minutes in a block and I assumed Randle had a good game with the Knicks winning and those huge shots he hit down the stretch. Box score tells me I was way wrong.

  90. Only managed to see the 2nd half (game started at 5.30am here and after a sleepless weekend I opted for a bit of a sleep in), but man that was a good win.

    Probably the most pleasing aspect was the ability to hold off a full strength Clippers team in the 4th after letting games against top teams slip in the 4th recently. All the more amazing when you consider Randle had a so-so game on offence and we were missing 2 key rotation guys. Could arguably be won of our best wins of the season.

    Also, Derrick Rose is 6th man of the year and I will not even consider any other counter arguments on this.

  91. To do that without IQ and Burks was incredible. I’d written this off as a sure loss.

    My feelings about Rose being on this team remain complicated at best. But the guy is balling out of his mind at the moment.

  92. dtrickey: Probably the most pleasing aspect was the ability to hold off a full strength Clippers team in the 4th after letting games against top teams slip in the 4th recently.

    Yeah, and I feel like the Grizzlies bailed us out a bit in that win with all the technicals and foul nonsense. This one was solid mental toughness on our part.

  93. Rose has been playing like a superstar. I was 100% convinced his career was over after his previous NY stint, but kudos to him for changing his game and accepting a bench role. There’s a strong argument he’s been our 2nd best player this year.

    And wow, Bullock has been showing another offensive gear the last couple weeks.

    Previously, any game Randle put up nothing & RJ was ho-hum was a guaranteed loss. Bullock has really carried the offense at times.

  94. I only got to watch a few segments of the game. Tell me more about how RJ looked on defense. It’s not the kind of thing I can find in a highlight reel.

  95. DRed:
    I watched bits of the game here and there but only the last few minutes in a block and I assumed Randle had a good game with the Knicks winning and those huge shots he hit down the stretch.Box score tells me I was way wrong.

    Randle couldn’t hit the ocean from the side of a dinghy for the first three quarters+. But he was magnificent closing out. And he played great D throughout. In fact I’m not sure I’ve seen a better 48 minutes of D from a team. Everyone was scrambling, rotating, up in grills, no easy shots. The Clippers played the same, but the Knicks just did it harder.

  96. Alan:
    I only got to watch a few segments of the game. Tell me more about how RJ looked on defense. It’s not the kind of thing I can find in a highlight reel.

    Not sure I can deliver a better “eye test” than anyone else, but — I thought RJ was constantly harassing Kawhi all game and got him off his rhythm. Kawhi still had a fine box score, but he missed some late three pointers (who knows why), and I thought he looked pretty tired all game.

    RJ also drew PG a few times late and was completely solid, moving his feet well and just occupying a … lot … of space. A PITA in a good way (for us).

    EDIT: And as Raven said, everyone was scrambling, rotating. Bullock had a monster game all around. It was just wonderful to watch. I might say, if we were front-running this season, that we led most of the way and were the better team. But since we’re SUCH underdogs, the game was insane (for me).

  97. Alan:
    I only got to watch a few segments of the game. Tell me more about how RJ looked on defense. It’s not the kind of thing I can find in a highlight reel.

    Easiest descriptor is:
    Kawhi 9-26.
    George 8-20.

    Edit: As KBA said.

  98. I thought both RJ and Bullock were excellent on d- especially given that they both played the entire second half- but great, great help from both Noel and Taj any time Kawhi or George hit the paint. Rotations were really on point. Aside from a couple of fouls on threes the Knicks second half defense was exceptional.

  99. Imagine this team getting IQ and Burks back, with Obi improving, and with a small but positive contribution from Vildoza. What if Mitch can come back too? That would be a tough team in the playoffs, wouldn’t it?

  100. The Knicks play the epitome of team defense. Everyone is responsible in 1-on-1 matchups but not left on an island. When switches occur and a mismatch develops, they are instantly looking to switch again to a more favorable matchup or to run a quick double to force a pass that will undo the mismatch. RJ is incredibly smart in navigating these complicated switches. And when he is alone on a star, he more than holds his own. He’s not an intimidator like Marcus Smart or a length defender like Kawhi but he is very smart and physical and has excellent footwork and body position. It helped that Kawhi and PG13 were missing but he was a part of that. Maybe Shane Battier is a good comparison…remember how he gave Melo fits just by knowing his tendencies?

  101. One of differences from the Phoenix game, which changed a lot of things for us defensively, was just personnel based. The Knicks played D the same way, hard hedging picks with Noel and Taj, switching well, doubling well, but the difference was CP3 and Ayton’s movement without the ball, everytime the hedge happened they punished it. We defended the Clippers in the same way, but Zubac is not a big threat and Kawhi and George could not create like Paul does. When they went small with Batum and Morris they started finding open 3s in those plays, but fortunately they either missed or the defense closed out really well.

    I still think out best matchups are against teams with star wings, teams like the Clippers, Celtics, etc, but we still struggle against fast PGs and dominant Centers. That speaks a lot to RJ’s development on defense and Bullock who’s been just great, but also Randle working hard.

  102. my favorite part about this win was randle’s intensity and composure in the face of his shot not falling. switched repeatedly onto kawhi and very often got the better of it. seemed to have all the poise down the stretch. rose was the mvp but randle gets the hearts and minds today. he even repeatedly big brother’d cousins when he tried like 9 times to do that stupid take the ball after the whistle shit. just a great subpar performance from him.

  103. doncic got ejected for a cheap shotting sexton and it was absolutely the right call

  104. Tommy Beer with a great note on Twitter, first time the Knicks win on Mother’s Day since Game 4 vs the Heat in the 2000 playoffs!

  105. Bruno, I agree somewhat and think back to the ATL game which was looking like a sure loss until Trae went down. But we also get hurt by teams who know how to move the ball like Miami…they don’t have a star PG-type but the forwards are all good passers. SA might give us trouble because they know how to move the ball, althought they aren’t great shooters. CHA has LaMelo back and played us very hard last time. And Boston has sucked lately but they are tough when healthy, which they haven’t been all year. Even if we clinch a 4-5-6 seed before that game, it might be a real test for us.

    There’s no question that we have been more fortunate than most teams in terms of catching teams at the right time, but whatever, we deserve every bit of the success we have had this year just by playing our asses off every game and playing the right way.

  106. I agree with Bruno, Rose is unlikely to get a big offer. Maybe Miami looms as a possibility, if they miss out on other target.

    Here’s the new question I find myself asking:

    Has Rose played so well that we should eschew looking at overpaying Chris Paul or Kyle Lowry, and just take him back at, say, 2 years, $22mm, and be pleased with the surplus value?

  107. Has Rose played so well that we should eschew looking at overpaying Chris Paul or Kyle Lowry, and just take him back at, say, 2 years, $22mm, and be pleased with the surplus value?

    Again, a part of me would just as soon not have him on the team anymore, given… other things. But bringing him back gives us much more flexibility in plotting out our offseason. We still need a second All-Star to pair with Randle, but it doesn’t instantly need to be a PG. It could be a wing, or even a stretch 5 type (though a wing or a guard makes more sense). We’d still need a significant upgrade over Payton as our other main PG, but that shouldn’t be hard to do, given how godawful Payton is, and how many competent point guards are floating around.

  108. I mean, Rose and Vildoza could hold down the PG spot for less than $15mm.

    But that only leaves one position to upgrade: Wing. Even if we added someone like Levine, does that get us far enough?

    I don’t think it does.

  109. with all the assets and cap space we have, we’re in position to upgraded PG and wing, and bring back Rose and Bullock to be 6th & 7th men. If we’re actually going to win a title, I think that’s probably what we have to do.

  110. We need a disgruntled superstar to want to get out somewhere. That has to be the next step. Of course that’s way out of our control and they need to play a complimentary position to Randle and Barrett. Hopefully we find a couple nice role players in this draft to bolster the bench and then we hope the right superstar falls to our lap.

  111. Hubert:
    I mean, Rose and Vildoza could hold down the PG spot for less than $15mm.

    But that only leaves one position to upgrade: Wing. Even if we added someone like Levine, does that get us far enough?

    I don’t think it does.

    What defines “far enough?” Just because we pressed the fast forward button on getting to relevance, does that mean we should go straight to building a contender?

    I’d be perfectly fine with seeing what Vildoza is (I’m optimistic that he’s a similar player to Campazzo or TJ McConnell…a perfectly good backup who could start in a pinch) and seeing what we get in the draft. There will also be some free agent bargains out there just like there was this year. LaVine at ther right price would be fine, but maybe we find the next Devin or even Tyler Herro in the draft this year.

    I’d really like for us to be patient but opportunistic this offseason. Try to extend Randle on a less-than-max extension, sign a combo of Rose/Bullock/Noel to team-friendly deals or let them walk, lock up Mitch, let Frank go, trade Knox, pick up spare parts, and roll the balls out there in preseason. Let the Nets fizzle out and when the right trade or FA comes along, pounce on it.

  112. Who really has the potential to be a disgruntled superstar after this year??

    Giannis? But he just signed.
    Kawhi? But he loves SoCal.
    KAT? Is he really a superstar? Plus Thibs ish.
    Dame? Could see that.

    Seems like a very long shot. Stay the course. Fill in around the edges. Sign Julius. Draft well. See what RJ is in year 3.

  113. It’s definitely time to remain patient, at the end of the day Randle is still only 26, Barrett is 20 and Quickley is a rookie. We should absolutely just hold down the fort if nothing great happens in this off-season because it’s still a “free” year, meaning both Randle and RJ are still on cheaper contracts. The time to press fast forward will be if this team remains at this level next season, but before a Randle extension kicks in taking a big part of the cap room.

    By the end of next season we’ll also have a better idea of how good Barrett, Quickley and Toppin are, maybe Vildoza, we will see if Randle’s improvement are sustainable etc. Just make our picks in this draft, try to find good opportunistic deals and keep waiting to see who’s the next unsettled superstar that becomes available.

  114. Would also seem that with the signing of Vildoza the eventual resigning of Rose and the emergence of Quickly that the Knicks feel more competent at lead guard. My guess is it means they are not going all in Ball.

    What about Dragi? as part of the guard rotation next year?

  115. RJ is shooting .399% from 3 point territory on the season. Remember when he missed his first 50 shots?

  116. Just because we pressed the fast forward button on getting to relevance, does that mean we should go straight to building a contender?

    Yes, I do think building a contender should be the goal.

    When you have a top 6 of Randle, Rose, RJ, Bullock, IQ, and Mitch… and they’re making ~$50mm combined… that’s screams out for making a play.

    If you’re patient, you’ll end up with the same core, except they’ll be making ~$100mm and you’ll be annoyed we didn’t supplement them when we could.

  117. Hubert: Yes, I do think building a contender should be the goal.

    When you have a top 6 of Randle, Rose, RJ, Bullock, IQ, and Mitch… and they’re making ~$50mm combined… that’s screams out for making a play.

    If you’re patient, you’ll end up with the same core, except they’ll be making ~$100mm and you’ll be annoyed we didn’t supplement them when we could.

    Or you build assets and trade some for a stud or draft well and make smaller deals and supplement those guys on the cheap.

    Or you make a stupid cap-killing deal that costs assets and watch other teams draft valuable players with your picks. Sound familiar?

  118. Hubert: Yes, I do think building a contender should be the goal.

    When you have a top 6 of Randle, Rose, RJ, Bullock, IQ, and Mitch… and they’re making ~$50mm combined… that’s screams out for making a play.

    If you’re patient, you’ll end up with the same core, except they’ll be making ~$100mm and you’ll be annoyed we didn’t supplement them when we could.

    There’s definitely going to be a fine line between being patient and being passive with this core, but the good thing is precisely that this core will still cost 50mm only throughout the entirety of next season, and we’ll even have bird rights on Randle if the FO for whatever reason needs him to wait on the extension a bit to make a move in the 21-22 free agency or draft. That’s the really exciting thing about this, is that the window to make moves is large enough to be patient while still exploring other alternatives in the between periods.

  119. Or you build assets and trade some for a stud or draft well and make smaller deals and supplement those guys on the cheap.

    Or you make a stupid cap-killing deal that costs assets and watch other teams draft valuable players with your picks. Sound familiar?

    I think we all agree we should avoid trades that are stupid and kill the cap. But the idea that you will make better trades if you do them in the future… where does that come from?

    Time is our real cap killer. Patience sounds great til you have to start paying everyone.

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