For fucks sake Lee has negative value to us. Wtf is with ur infatuation with him strat.

I fully understand the downsides of keeping him.

I’ll try to put it in terms more in line with the thinking.

I don’t think he has negative value on the market.

Let’s say he’s worth $1 and keeping him longer will cost us 10 cents. That sucks. We can save those 10 cents by dumping him now, but if we dump him for 70 cents we will lose 20 cents by doing the transaction. I’d rather wait until the draft or summer and hope to get 90 cents or more than take 70 cents now.

Of course we don’t know what they were offered. It’s quite possible they were offered $1 and were stupid enough to not take it.

Yes, them possibly falling in love with Kanter and extending him for big time would be worse than keeping Lee, but keeping Lee in the hopes that you will somehow get something better for him in the future while he Lee blocks younger players, helps the Knicks win too much and gets older is also bad.

Not being as bad as extending Kanter isn’t saying much.

I think veterans like Lee and Jack have value over and above their basketball contribution. They have value as teachers on and off the court (though it’s not something you want to pay a lot for). Blocking the development of young players is an offsetting problem.

I think benching guys that deserve the minutes opens the door to locker room issues. I don’t think dumping them is a good idea either.

I think we more or less played this hand correctly even though we may not have maximized the development of Frank and Dotson.

We played players based on merit until we were eliminated, got some educational benefit, didn’t dump players or treat them poorly (other than maybe Noah), and now we are moving on to full player development. If Hornacek is still playing Lee/Jack big minutes after the all-star break I’d be surprised and think it was mistake.

The way more significant risk is that our management may think Kanter is a good player and pay him a lot of money because he gets offensive rebounds and scores efficiently around the paint.

Yes, them possibly falling in love with Kanter and extending him for big time would be worse than keeping Lee, but keeping Lee in the hopes that you will somehow get something better for him in the future while he Lee blocks younger players, helps the Knicks win too much and gets older is also bad.

Not being as bad as extending Kanter isn’t saying much.

I made a rather simple point and laid out why.

1st round picks and trying to build through the draft are currently overvalued.

In the following post I explained my preferred diversified approach. To which I often add, basketball players, agents, and their families are not a line on a spreadsheet. Any strategy that tries to optimize based on numbers only will fail in the real world because it will engender backlash. That’s significant when it comes to how and when to tank.

I have long been willing to move both KOQ and Lee, but KOQ is not a depreciating asset and we will have other opportunities to move Lee. IMO, the risk of delay with Lee is very small.

What’s the risk we won’t be able get the same offer draft night or before the season that we got at the trade deadline?

I think insignificant. I mean what’s the most we are going to lose? A deal management didn’t want?

I weigh that against the possibility of using his salary as part of a value creating deal later, using his expiring contract in a value creating deal later, or simply getting the same or a slightly better offer later. At this stage, I think the better move is to wait than throw him away.

The way more significant risk is that our management may think Kanter is a good player and pay him a lot of money because he gets offensive rebounds and scores efficiently around the paint.

They might miss the fact that he’s one of the worst P&R defenders in the NBA, that players that score off offensive rebounds tend to get overvalued by some metrics, that hanging around the rim looking for orebs tends to create spacing issues for other players, that he has stat stuffing tendencies on the defensive boards, and that my views on him have been verified by multiple on/off models with multiple teams, over multiple years, and with many lineups.

People that think Kanter is good and want to pay him. That’s a team building risk. Waiting a few months to trade Lee, not so much.

Glad you loved it too! ClashFan spreading the word and getting more followers to his Deadwood cause!

My plans for eventual world conquest proceed accordingly, albeit slowly…

🙂

I’m on the record as anti-drafting Frank! I didn’t call anyone stupid, but I still think it’s incredibly stupid to try to come to any serious conclusion about him after 1100 teenage minutes. Most teenagers in the NBA are really bad, and repeatedly making the point that Frank is no exception isn’t interesting nor does it prove anyone right or wrong.

Haha, none of my “conclusions” are all that serious, you need to lighten up. As to whether what I have to say on this matter is interesting or not, when I find something or someone uninteresing, I just tune it/him/her out. I enjoy discussing Frank’s prospects, especially as game evidence mounts (and 1100 minutes is not a tiny sample.) And it seems like lots of posts followed my comments. But feel free to ignore my posts if they bore you.

And should we limit discussion to things that are objectively provable? That would eliminate about 90% of the posting traffic here.

Glad you loved it too! ClashFan spreading the word and getting more followers to his Deadwood cause!

I still think The Wire is overall a more complete show, obviously a little unfair to compare them as Deadwood was never given a proper ending, but it’s absolutely one of the best shows I’ve seen.