2015 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Bulls [POLL]

How many wins will the Knicks have in 2015?

  • 35-39 (33%, 44 Votes)
  • 40-44 (28%, 38 Votes)
  • 30-34 (24%, 32 Votes)
  • Less than 30 (8%, 11 Votes)
  • More than 45 (7%, 9 Votes)

Total Voters: 134

Loading ... Loading ...

ESPN Forecast: 37 wins

@NYKnicksPodcast: Come on, losing Felton and Woodson should result in at least a 5-game improvement.

@m_shantz: I’m really excited to re-watch the 2012-2013 Toronto #Raptors (34-48), Calderon, Bargnani, Acy, and Melo as Rudy Gay.

BleacherReport: 35 wins

With Derek Fisher learning how to coach just months removed from playing in the postseason for the Oklahoma City Thunder, and a roster that isn’t too much more talented than last year’s, the postseason is a pipe dream. Plus, learning the triangle offense will be a process for the established incumbents.

FiveThirtyEight: 31

It remains to be seen if Fisher’s version of the offense can buck this trend and promote the kind of passing to which triangle coaches always seem to pay lip service. But he’ll have his work cut out for him with these Knicks. The 2013-14 version of the team finished 27th out of 30 teams in assist rate, with frequent complaints about the lack of ball movement hurled in Woodson’s direction by the New York press. These were not your Red Holzman-era Knicks.

Liked it? Take a second to support Mike Kurylo on Patreon!

Mike Kurylo

Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

156 thoughts to “2015 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Bulls [POLL]”

  1. I’m sticking with my irrational 42.

    No Calderon tonight, though, sure makes splitting these first two a lot more difficult. The Knicks really need a monster game from Melo tonight. I think he has that in him.

  2. I expect them to win a game or two in 2014 too.

    But, for the season, I’m going with 34.

  3. I agree that it is optimistic, but I don’t think they should have been a 37-win team last season. I think they were really more of the team that they looked like when Bargs got hurt, which was a slightly above .500 team. Losing Chandler hurts a lot, but I think his loss is offset by A. Not having Woodson anymore and B. Having Calderon over Felton. So I think the team will basically be the same as last year’s team post-Bargs injury, so as long as they don’t play Bargs, they’ll be a barely above .500 team again.

  4. Tonight, by the way, I presume Gasol guards Melo, right? And Noah will guard STAT, so Dalembart might be the key. Can Larkin get him involved with such a huge height advantage on Dunleavy?

  5. 39….

    And I reiterate my desperate desire to see Anthony Davis in a Knicks uni….

    Yes, I know it won’t happen…..

  6. I voted 35-39 but I don’t think you’d have to be on drugs to envision a 40 win season. The East still sucks- outside of Cleveland and maybe Chicago if Rose is healthy, no one is in a completely different class than the Knicks. Sure Toronto and Washington are better but I wouldn’t automatically pencil in a loss every time the Knicks play them. Same with Atlanta and Charlotte. I do think the Knicks will stink early and miss the playoffs but I don’t think predicting a .500 season is completely irrational optimism. Unlikely, IMO, but hardly worthy of an omg you must be on drugs response.

  7. I like the strategy. With Larkin guarding Rose, Derrick may get so much work he tears his ACL again.

    Thanks for going on record, Jowles. If you’re going to boast later, got to be clear now.

  8. Guess the medical prognosis remains as unreliable as ever.
    Bargs “day to day” = MRI w/ no results announced + out indefinitely.

    Calderon “would have returned to the game if it wasn’t preseason” = out the rest of the preseason + first game.

    Didn’t realize it until this thread, but my 34 win prediction is in fact the final number for the 2012-13 Raptors.

  9. Did they just run the Cliff Paul State Farm ad as the first commercial of the season? It’s going to be a long year.

  10. Whatever the final win total winds up being its just great to have the NBA season back. The Knicks, good or bad, are always entertaining to watch and follow and I expect nothing different this season.

  11. I am pleased to see Chicago’s offense so far look like garbage. Come on, two game split!

  12. I almost think that the Bulls lineup was sort of a shot at the Knicks. “We don’t even need a logical starting lineup to beat you.” It ain’t working out for you so far, Bulls!

  13. I like the movement on offense. Amare has actually passed the ball. Let’s hope this is not the high water mark of the season.

  14. I voted in the 40-44 range since I stated earlier it would be 41. I think it could be +/- 10 though. I wouldn’t be surprised either way. I also predict at least one major trade.

  15. Wow Larkin and STAT starting? Even with the injuries I didn’t see that comin. I kinda liked the idea of Jason Smith at the starting 4, but that would ruin the theory that Phil is calling Cole the emergency center so teams won’t want him in a deal. I don’t know if Smith is healthy, but this signals that Phil and Fish are serious about using Cole as a 3rd C. Let’s see how this works. I’m interested in seeing what Larkin can do with extended regular season minutes until Calderon gets back. Go Knicks!

  16. I’d like to see Melo more involved in the offense. He’s, you know, really good on offense.

  17. It will be fascinating to see if Brooks is the latest wild man that Thibs somehow manages to control (a la Nate).

  18. Jason Smith is garbage on both ends haha why is he playing over Cole? Simply because he can make a 15 ft jumper?

  19. Melo is going to need to play 40 mins/g for the Knicks to compete with teams like the Bulls.

  20. Contested 20 foot jumpers with 21 seconds left on the clock are still a big part of what we do here.

  21. This is going to be the biggest learning curve for Fisher early on as a rookie head coach, the lineups he uses are going to be critical.

  22. im ready for melo at the 4, if the other option are smith/ acy lineups getting a lot of minutes

  23. #freecole. I’m not sold on the utility of a willingness to take and clang open jumpshots.

  24. All tonight is doing is strongly tempting me not to watch the major ass-whooping the Knicks are gonna get tomorrow in Cleveland lol.

  25. I’m starting to worry we may not be a good defensive team this year guys. Also free cole.

  26. is there a bigger disconnect between NBA fans and NBA coaches/GM’s than the one that exists concerning the perceived value of Cole. I swear I dont understand

  27. its pretty clear that we really dont have the post players to effectively run the triangle at this point. its OK, and we should still run it, but we dont have the pieces yet

  28. So frustrating that again this team will not play it’s best players. The 2nd unit clearly needs Cole’s defense. Amare at center is a bad idea. Just give Wear the backup pf minutes. Cut both J. Smiths. It’s really not that hard.

  29. It just wouldn’t be a proper Knicks season opener without someone on the other team having a career night.

  30. That was a really nice pass from Melo there. They suck, but it seems like there’s a vague concept of team basketball out there. Been some really nice plays even though the second unit shit themselves so bad.

  31. the bulls look good. if when butler comes back, dunleavy and heinrich are limited to a combined 20 minutes, they will be really good

  32. slept through the 1st half…seems like nothing of value was missed….but how is Taylor Swift welcoming people to NY? How long was I out for?

  33. if you are the Bucks, and you have jarred dudley in there instead of the greek freak, you deserve to blow the lead

  34. Im all for team basketball and everyone getting touches but sorry Melo needs to touch the ball on offense alot more than he is doing tonight.

  35. Second unit really messed this game up. Oh well. I still like what I have seen from Larkin for the most part though.

  36. For Larkin to be an effective defender he’s going to have go Mugsy Bogues and basically go chest to chest with guys.

  37. @ DRed
    Well obviously. But, the Bulls are probably 2nd best team in East and one of best D’s overall against a team with a new system. We shouldn’t be this bad the whole year, though I won’t rule it out.

  38. GAH….

    I just want to say, that when I said 39, i meant 35-39, and more like 35, although 25 doesn’t feel out of the question….

  39. Definitely need more shots for Melo. He needs more touches within the offense. Jason Smith needs to not play.

  40. Cant wait for calderon back because we’re only gonna win games one way, and im pretty sure not by defense.

  41. Bit off topic, but if James Ennis turns out to be dope I’m going to be even smugger than I already am

  42. Hey guys, I just thought of a great joke.

    What do you call a NBDL team with a $5M-a-year rookie head coach?

  43. You guys are making judgements after the knicks played the best team in the east in game one…..rational

  44. I’m starting to worry we may not be a good defensive team this year guys. Also free cole.

    Cole sucks…. There I said it. Smh
    FREE MELO

  45. Just wait until Jason Smith and Il Bargo are in the rotation. The Knicks will have one of the worst players in the league on the floor for all 48 minutes.

  46. Man, I would have bet my life that once Cole checked into the game the Knicks would have erased Chicago’s lead within 3 minutes and ended the game on a 50-4 run.

  47. The nice thing about my retirement from blogging is that I don’t have to stay up to midnight recapping this mess.

  48. our offensive team out there right now reminds me of playing NBA Live with sorry guys where you cant shake the computer defender at all

  49. if this game results in Cole moving ahead of smith and acy on the depth chart, then it was worth it

  50. On that last play before commercial:

    You know how everyone’s like, “Kenneth Faried and Tyson Chandler can’t create their own shots?”

    Okay, so when Shump grabbed that ball and tossed it ahead to J.R. for the fast-break, did anyone — ANYONE — think that J.R. would put it up in the air for Acy to slam home?

    No? Okay. Faried and Chandler create their own shots.

  51. Mike’s poll just updated, be sure to recast your vote:
    How many wins will the Knicks have in 2015?

    o Less than 10
    o 11-20
    o 21-25
    o 26-30
    o More than 30

  52. On my way home from the game, the highlight was the color coordinated bracelets they lit up before the game. Oh and the smoking hot chick sitting next to Taylor Swift.

    Other than that, maybe the worst game I’ve attended in 25 years, a complete destruction in every phase of the game. It’s gonna be a very long season.

  53. That’s Taylor Swift’s secret girlfriend, Karlie Kloss. I think, at least. I’m not one for celebrity gossip, but the possibility of sapphic love on that level is just downright cruel to my brain.

  54. Okay here’s the upside:
    Since we didn’t play tonight, tomorrow won’t be a back-to-back.

  55. game I’ve attended in 25 years, a complete destruction in every phase of the game. It’s gonna be a very long season.

    The Bulls might have the best roster in the NBA. Knicks only play them 3 times this year. I think this overreaction is funny. Melo needs to be featured more with stat. They were great together

  56. Please, don’t anyone ever waste my time saying Cole is a legit NBA player ever again. He might be better than what they have, but he was awful when the game was around 20 points and picked up 6 garbage rebounds at the end. He was awful.

    What exactly can he do on the floor when the game is at NBA speed, not D league speed?

  57. Lol nb scheduled the rockets b2b vs lal and Utah boooooooo. Lol I’m reaching I know but why couldn’t we get the pancake start lol

  58. So, is Kerr running the triangle over in Oakland? Looks like they averaged about 120 ppg in the preseason. (“I wonder if they are using the same wind we are using?”)

  59. I seen it fellas. whatta thrashing. $10 beers eased the pain

    Amare looked spry

    Twin towers Jason Smith and Cole Aldrich…yikes

    no chance we shock the state of ohio tomorrow, right?

  60. Please, don’t anyone ever waste my time saying Cole is a legit NBA player ever again. He might be better than what they have, but he was awful when the game was around 20 points and picked up 6 garbage rebounds at the end. He was awful.

    What exactly can he do on the floor when the game is at NBA speed, not D league speed?

    1. Gimme a break do you even watch the games?

    2. It was 7 rebounds, not 6. And 4 (FOUR) were on the offensive end. Those weren’t gimmies.

    3. If you’re going to judge the entire Knicks team based on tonight’s performance, the lot of them need to go.

    4. He did it in 17 minutes. You’re going to write a guy off after 17 minutes? Timmay played 18 minutes, shot 2-10, and was a team high -22. You tell me you’re going to write him off too? (Cole was only -8, considering they lost by 30, I’ll take that).

    This is why we can’t have nice things.

    BTW I do realize that he wasn’t effective against Pau Gasol, but Gasol has been making centers look bad for a number of years now. And the rest of the team was absolute garbage. But you know let’s never speak of Aldrich again. Jason Smith, Bargnani, and Stoudemire are going to hold down the backup center spot just fine. Let’s play them more!

  61. As the argument goes, ignoring hyperbole for now, even if Cole did suck he’d still be better than any of our other centers.

    Plus I don’t think he was the one to give up 22 pts on 12 shots to Taj freakin’ Gibson.

  62. Sam and Cole should be the only centers playing, for us to have any defense/rebounding consistantly…and the second team was just horrible tonight, they can’t be that inept can they???

  63. @jkhar
    Unfortunately yes they can.

    If THJr. isn’t hitting shots he’s terrible to have out there, same goes for about half the team.

  64. 1. Gimme a break do you even watch the games?

    2. It was 7 rebounds, not 6. And 4 (FOUR) were on the offensive end. Those weren’t gimmies.

    3. If you’re going to judge the entire Knicks team based on tonight’s performance, the lot of them need to go.

    4. He did it in 17 minutes. You’re going to write a guy off after 17 minutes? Timmay played 18 minutes, shot 2-10, and was a team high -22. You tell me you’re going to write him off too? (Cole was only -8, considering they lost by 30, I’ll take that).

    This is why we can’t have nice things.1. Gimme a break do you even watch the games?

    2. It was 7 rebounds, not 6. And 4 (FOUR) were on the offensive end. Those weren’t gimmies.

    3. If you’re going to judge the entire Knicks team based on tonight’s performance, the lot of them need to go.

    4. He did it in 17 minutes. You’re going to write a guy off after 17 minutes? Timmay played 18 minutes, shot 2-10, and was a team high -22. You tell me you’re going to write him off too? (Cole was only -8, considering they lost by 30, I’ll take that).

    This is why we can’t have nice things.

    With all due respect, I’ll try to address all your points:

    1…. Yes, I watched the game and yes, along with the majority of his team mates CA had a severe case of suck fever.

    2… He entered the game with 4.59 left in the 3rd quarter and had one rebound in those 5 minutes and was -8 during those 5 minutes when real NBA players were still on the floor. He pulled down a whopping 6 rebounds during extensive garbage time in the 4th quarter.

    Of his 7 rebounds, 4 were in the last 4:09 with Mc Derrmott, Mirotic, Brooks,Bairstow and E’twan Moore on the floor. He was even plus minus through the last quarter with a triple A line-up on the floor. That’s how your rebounding Juggernaut got 7 caroms.

    to be continued……

  65. 3. If you’re going to judge the entire Knicks team based on tonight’s performance, the lot of them need to go.

    4. He did it in 17 minutes. You’re going to write a guy off after 17 minutes? Timmay played 18 minutes, shot 2-10, and was a team high -22. You tell me you’re going to write him off too? (Cole was only -8, considering they lost by 30, I’ll take that).

    This is why we can’t have nice things

    3….. Almost all of them need to go and I’m quite sure Jackson will do precisely that. Actually, how many players currently on the Knick roster could they swap even up for the 10th pick in next year’s NBA draft? Precisely one, I think. Maybe there will be a contending team near the trade deadline that needs a point guard for 20 minutes a night (Calderon) with great range as a spot up shooter who has athletic bigs that can cover for his poor D (Clippers) and offer a low first round pick and expirings. Maybe.

    What is Stat worth on the open market playing half the floor? Shumpert? THjr?

    4…. It isn’t just 17 minutes. He doesn’t do ANYTHING well on an NBA level vs rotation caliber players. Yes, he can grab some 50/50 balls against the 10-15th players on the bench, but what else?

    He was laughably bad trying to guard a 34 yr old Gasol in space. Yes, that old Gasol coming off 3 consecutive part seasons where he was crippled by leg injuries. The Zamboni at the garden has more quickness and lateral movement.

    What exactly is it that he does well (other than compile stats in garbage time). Does he have a go to move? Does he pass well? Does he handle the ball well?

    Other than being 7 feet tall, slow and white, why all the fanboi-dom?

  66. 4…. It isn’t just 17 minutes. He doesn’t do ANYTHING well on an NBA level vs rotation caliber players. Yes, he can grab some 50/50 balls against the 10-15th players on the bench, but what else?

    Cole Aldrich’s REB/36 over his career is 11.6. I’ve shown in the past that these numbers hold up even for players with few minutes. It’s not a fluke and not 50-50 balls. Cole Aldrich is a good rebounder in the NBA. This is a fact that is indisputable. So if you’re watching the game and seeing something different, you’re unable to judge NBA play by observation.

    Don’t be concerned, this is true of nearly all humans. That’s why we use stats. Numbers don’t lie.

  67. Sample size-how does it work?

    4 different organizations had a nice sample of looking at him every day and none of them like what they saw. OKC is still trying to squeeze 21 minutes out of the player formerly known as Kendrick Perkins for God’s sake.

    OKC didn’t need him to score, they didn’t need him to block shots, they didn’t need him to handle the ball, they just needed someone to defend the post and move a little bit and they determines he wasn’t much good at that. Houston (Morey) didn’t like him when they got an up close look at him. Sacratomato…. who cares. Big chief 13 rings thinks hes good for an emergency center. That seems about right.

    There was an emergency last night, they broke the glass and to paraphrase Dennis Green, ” He was what we thought he was!”

    As a guy who has rooted for the Knicks since Jumpin Johnny Green, I wish him well, but I would be shocked if he ever becomes a rotation player on a good team.

  68. Cole has played 1000 minutes now, and has consistently rebounded at a high rate while scoring efficiently. You want to talk about a guy that sucks and has no business on an NBA floor, let’s talk Jason Smith.

  69. Cole Aldrich’s REB/36 over his career is 11.6. I’ve shown in the past that these numbers hold up even for players with few minutes. It’s not a fluke and not 50-50 balls. Cole Aldrich is a good rebounder in the NBA. This is a fact that is indisputable. So if you’re watching the game and seeing something different, you’re unable to judge NBA play by observation.

    Don’t be concerned, this is true of nearly all humans. That’s why we use stats. Numbers don’t lie.

    Untrue.

    His sample size isn’t primarily against rotation players, let alone elite players in the NBA. He has compiled nice rebounding numbers vs. mostly end of the bench types. That is indisputable. And until he rebounds well vs rotation players over a large sample he will be exactly what he is.

    And, for the record…. aren’t there other facets to the game other than rebounding?

  70. Name one thing Cole is good at!

    Rebounding

    Isn’t there more to the game than rebounding??!!

    Well, he also is a good shot blocker and scores efficiently.

  71. Name one thing Cole is good at!

    Rebounding

    Isn’t there more to the game than rebounding??!!

    Well, he also is a good shot blocker and scores efficiently.

    Holy Jesus,

    I’ll thankfully stipulate the great white hope is fantastically “efficient” hoisting up his 1.5 shots per game versus garbage time players. He makes 0.8 attempts per game !

    Please somebody wake me up when he becomes marginal NBA player, not a D-leaguer.

  72. 1.5 shots per game. Cool argument, bro. Personally, I would have gone with points per game if I wanted to make an ill-informed argument, but shots per game will work too. Cole’s also got a missing tooth which makes him look hella goofy.

  73. bobneptune:

    Your argument against Cole is the same one could have (and did) made against Jeremy Lin, Matt Barnes, etc. pre-their breaking out. What makes your argument against Cole valid in the face where it would have also doomed these other players?

Comments are closed.