2014-15 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Cavs

Wouldn’t you just know it, but JR Smith’s problems with Sunday afternoon games hasn’t been an issue in his return to New York.

This one got late early.

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87 thoughts to “2014-15 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Cavs”

  1. Ahh yes, that feeling you have when you turn on the Knicks because it’s Sunday afternoon and they are down 24 at the half.

    I am sure there is a German word for it, maybe something like Knicksenfreude….

  2. I said the Knicks would not win 3 games after the ASG. I’m feeling pretty good about that prediction.

    Hey i said that too. if the over under is 3.5 who would bet the over?

  3. Depends on the odds. But since I thought we would end the season 13-69 even in the midst of our ten-day crew miracle, I would be still betting on the under :-)

    Bargs is a wonderful comedian.

  4. I said the Knicks would not win 3 games after the ASG. I’m feeling pretty good about that prediction.

    Can we expect a name change should you be right?

  5. They’re going to be in first place for the lottery (last place) going down the stretch, then get hot for the last two weeks and end up third to last, and get the fifth pick. This is the knicks.

  6. They’re going to be in first place for the lottery (last place) going down the stretch, then get hot for the last two weeks and end up third to last, and get the fifth pick. This is the knicks.

    I too was sure this was going to happen until recently, but dude, who’s going to do the getting hot?

  7. I too was sure this was going to happen until recently, but dude, who’s going to do the getting hot?

    Did you see Lou Amundson? Man was on fire!

  8. Cavs could have won this game by 75. Seriously. They were up 21 in the first quarter without shifting into full throttle.

  9. I too was sure this was going to happen until recently, but dude, who’s going to do the getting hot?

    Exactly. Like i get the constant glass half empty perspective around here, but my god look at the team. No one could even be a rotation player on a decent team let alone a good team besides maybe Calderon.

  10. Going back to yesterday’s thread, I think the Knicks can afford to wait for 2016 when a lot of decent players will hit free agency. Next season should be used to get mid-level guys on decent contracts and to see if we can find a few prospects overseas.

    Absolutely. It’s more important for them to be ready for the 2016 FA market than trying to build an instant winner next season and throwing all their money at guys that aren’t worth it.

    If Phil screws this up as bad as his other transactions, I think he should be sent to the dean’s office and summarily expelled.

  11. Seeing Tyson Chandler, Shumpert, and JR kicking ass, it really irks me that we basically got nothing in return for those guys. The deals Phil made for those guys, ANYONE could have made. The role of the calm, wise, zenmaster as GM is to explain how talented those guys are . . . and in the right situation, will excell. Like they are!
    Personally, I would have kept them all, but I know that’s not a popular point of view around here.

    First off, why weren’t we able to get these guys to play like that here?
    knickerblogger forum: Well, they weren’t playing with great players.

    Then, why wasn’t Melo passing to those guys?
    knickerblogger forum: Because everyone on this team sucks. Why should Melo pass to them.

  12. Our efficiency is improving. 3:30 and we already lost.

    How am i the 1st to say SHUMP SHUMP???

  13. Remember last year when we had JR and Shumpert? Or earlier this year?

    That was Jackson’s fault too.

  14. I’ve been saying for a long time that talent wasn’t the knicks only, or biggest, problem. That soon as they traded their players, they were going to suddenly start playing well for other teams.
    They had a lot of talented ball players last season, and when Phil got here. The problem is the knicks have a losing culture and play low IQ basketball.
    As long as Melo continues to play hero ball, everyone else on the team is going to under-achieve. Guys that played well for other teams, that we acquire , will fall off a cliff when they get here. Just the reverse of what’s happening with Tyson, JR and Shump.
    As much as it’s a star driven league, basketball is a game of synergy and teamwork. Someone has to get that through to Melo, or get him out of here. Otherwise, it’s going to be a long four and a half years.

  15. Remember last year when we had JR and Shumpert? Or earlier this year?

    That was Jackson’s fault too.

    YES – IT WAS!!!!
    You don’t understand basketball. Do you think they took magic pills that made them better overnight.

    Those teams play as a TEAM. The knicks play hero ball, starring Mr. Brand, Carmelo Anthony. He generally passes when he has to dump the ball off with five seconds left on the clock. That’s low percentage basketball. High School teams work the ball better than the knicks.

    Here’s another hero ball scenario that pisses me off. On a defensive rebound, a guard will be standing next to the guy that gets the rebound looking to push the ball up, but Melo wants the ball so he can take his time and slowly walk it up. That’s the knicks version of transition basketball.

  16. You guys amaze me man. Shump still sucks. Jr is doing the same shit he’s been doing. The difference is they have LESS responsibility. Jr is not allowed to freelance as much and he does what he does best. Spot up and slash. God. It has nothing to do with the Knicks. The Cavs have two play initiators in Irving and LeBron and a spot up 4. Great situation for Earl. On the Knicks he handled the ball and initiated way more. For d
    Fucks sake can you go one day without mentioning Melo. He’s not even playing. You make the site unenjoyable as fuck. Ughhhhhhhhhjhhhh

  17. You don’t understand basketball. Do you think they took magic pills that made them better overnight.

    So then they were playing great, but took the magic sucky pills the moment Jackson came in? I may not understand basketball, but your grasp on reality is tenuous, at best.

  18. @ er
    I know you love Melo and think he’s great. You can tell that to your wife, or kid or other Melo fanboys, but the truth is that he’s a team killer. He’ll never win a championship, no matter who the knicks acquire. His brand of hero basketball appeals to a segment of spectators that confuse being a good scorer with being a good basketball player.
    What makes you think JR sucks and Melo’s great? They played the same style for the knicks – taking bad, low percentage shots.
    JR, unquestionably, is one of the most athletic guys in the league. And Melo’s ceiling is off the charts. Melo can be on the level of LeBron and KD – if he played smarter. That was Phil’s big spiel, to get Melo to the next level. Melo needs to play with his head up looking for team scoring opportunities, not just his own scoring opportunities. He needs to know where he’s going to pass the ball before he gets it, because he’s sees an open man in the corner (instead of the ball holding act while the defense sets up).
    He needs to see two passes ahead to make it easy for his teammates. That’s what great basketball players do. And he needs to play defense like he loved it, just like Lebron, and Kobe, and MJ and all the other winners.
    As for JR, same goes. He needed to be reigned in here, just like you said. He’s been disciplined in Cleveland. That’s the difference.

  19. So then they were playing great, but took the magic sucky pills the moment Jackson came in? I may not understand basketball, but your grasp on reality is tenuous, at best.

    Jax was supposed to get them to start playing winning, team basketball, and develop a winning culture. How’s that working out?

  20. Yeah, Shump and JR sure showed us. “Trade us? We will proceed to elevate our games to unimaginable heights and lead the Cavs to a championship, playing major minutes in the playoffs and making people forget about the little 3 of Irving, Love and LeBron”

  21. Hoolahoop, I don’t like how Phil did in his first year too, but can you even imagine how much abominable this season would have looked if we kept those guys and were mired in a 22-30 record among Melo injuries, Tyson’s pouting and JR’s general foolishness? We sold low, but that’s a problem we would have had anyway.

  22. Not exactly a Melo fan here, but come on…

    Melo didn’t even play and they sucked as bad as ever.

    He’s not the solution for this team, neither the real problem.

  23. As long as Melo continues to play hero ball, everyone else on the team is going to under-achieve.

    Probably an anomaly, but how do you explain the 54 win season that Melo also won a scoring title in? I get the criticisms of Melo, but I honestly think he gets a ridiculous amount of flak on this board. I respect that everyone has their opinions about him, but can you really blame him for playing ‘hero ball’? The next best scorer on this team this year has been a D-League call up. This team is underachieving without him, so I don’t think it can all be lumped on Melo. I think in the 54 win season showed that he is capable playing a winning brand of basketball, provided he has the support. You only need to look at what happened in that Indiana series where the players around Melo were hurt or crapped the bed.

    As to the Phil comments, yes fair enough to critique the moves he’s made, but one way or another he’s cleared house like so many people have wanted. He’s cleared cap space and he is bringing in future picks and he has put an emphasis on giving young guys a go to build on the future. It’s so easy for the keyboard warriors to say “oh he could have definitely got more for x player”, but we are not privy to negotiations and have no idea of how other GM’s value a players stock outside of cap figures etc. I like the discussion that goes on, but man there are some delusional posters.

  24. What I dont get are the people complaining about how bad the Knicks are this season when the fact is this is the best thing that couldve happened to them regardless if this wasnt Phil’s plan at the start of the season. They will have no worse than a Top-4 pick in a very good draft and will have close to 30m in cap space this summer. Would it really be better if they hadnt traded Chandler, JR and Shump and they would be battling for the 7th/8th seed with a gimpy Melo who might be forcing himself to play on his messed up knee just to sneak into the playoffs?? Give me the Top 4 pick and Melo getting the surgery now plus the extra cap space knowing JR wont be picking up his option for the next season. Watching this crap sucks especially for the rest of the season because w/o Melo I honestly dont know if they can win 3 more games and avoid 70 losses.

    But whats done is done and instead of freaking complaining every single damn day about the past and about how good JR is playing in Cleveland (when the fact is he is shooting virtually identically there as he did in NY) lets actually try to be somewhat positive for a change and look forward to the draft and this off-season where something good can actually happen to the Knicks. You can be skeptical about the future cause lord knows I am too but there is still some hope at least.

  25. Totally agree with BBA. I do not like Calderon, but other than that, we are deleting and rebuilding. It is hard to totally dump the hard drive and do a clean rebuild.

  26. The criticism about Jackson’s rebuilding is that until Prigioni, none of his deals were all that good. They weren’t necessarily bad, either, but nor were they good. He was likely going to waive JR if he didn’t trade him, so trading Shump got him that extra $2 million in cap space he wouldn’t have had. Shump was a lot to give up for $2 million in cap space, but it wasn’t crazy. It made some sense. It just wasn’t that impressive of a trade. His tenure as Knick GM (or president or whatever his title is) has been mediocre at best so far. That isn’t to say that he won’t do really well in the offseason. I happen to think he will. But when every other move you make (outside of the Prigs deal) is mediocre (every other trade) or goddawful (the Melo signing plus the NTC, whose awfulness is tempered a lot by the fact that no other GM that Dolan would have hired would have done any different with Melo), it’s not going to give you a whole lot of optimism that he’ll suddenly pull off a bunch of home runs. That said, until he does actually fail, it’s not fair to say that the guy has already failed.

  27. The Thunder were 3-12 at one point this season. If they win tonight (they’re up big on Denver), they’ll be 31-25, and that’s with Kevin Durant still missing plenty of time (his latest thing is that the screw in his broken foot has been rubbing his foot the wrong way, so they removed the head from the screw). Wow!

    28-13 – a .682 winning percentage! (27-13 since Westbrook returned).

  28. I really think it’s premature and knee-jerk to judge Phil’s moves so far, particularly since it is hard to point out the truly (not marginally) better moves he could have made. If you don’t like the Melo signing, sure, then every move after that kind of sucks to some folks I guess. You’ll never get over it. If you don’t buy the premise, the flick is always bad. To say the GM has already failed is myopic at best, since he is in rebuilding mode. It is not fair imo. For example, if he drafts well and signs some nice free agents, will that mean he has done well? I don’t know about that either, but at least give the team some time. BTW, I have been a crazy fan since 1967-68.

  29. It isn’t premature to judge his moves in general, but yes, like I said, it’s too soon to say that he has failed since the “real” work will be the draft and free agency. Well, except the Melo signing, which was terrible, but I can’t really judge any GM for that, as I think any GM Dolan would have hired would have done that. Where Jackson will really show himself one way or the other will be how he handles the draft and free agency.

  30. Hoolahoop stop putting words in my mouth. I never said JR sucks. Jr is the definition of unrealized potential but he doesn’t suck. And yes I like Melo more than most on this blog but I always critique him on the things he does that annoy me or aren’t good. So if that makes me a fanboy cuz I dont act like he bangs my wife as you do than so be it.

    Like I say towns Monroe and a small for next year.

  31. I respect that everyone has their opinions about him, but can you really blame him for playing ‘hero ball’?

    It that line right there that tells that says it all.
    Lebron has no problem passing them – because it’s the right play!

    Why doesn’t Melo pass?
    – Because everyone on the team sucks.

    Why are Shump and JR hitting their shots?
    – Because good players are on the team.

    It’s a catch 22 alibi for Melo.

  32. As to the Phil comments, yes fair enough to critique the moves he’s made, but one way or another he’s cleared house like so many people have wanted. He’s cleared cap space and he is bringing in future picks and he has put an emphasis on giving young guys a go to build on the future. It’s so easy for the keyboard warriors to say “oh he could have definitely got more for x player”, but we are not privy to negotiations and have no idea of how other GM’s value a players stock outside of cap figures etc. I like the discussion that goes on, but man there are some delusional posters.

    That’s fine if he wants to hit restart and get his own players, but he dealt his assets very cheap.
    Maybe Phil’s weakness is that he’s a bad negotiator. Every deal and the Melo re-signing have been horrendous. Even if he’s a basketball genius, that doesn’t mean he’s a good businessman or negotiator. But, whatever the reason, he’s been doing a deplorable job.

  33. Sorry guys for the rant. That happens every time I hit the truth serum.

    “RAH RAH RAH, LET’S GO KNICKS!!!”
    “IN MELO WE TRUST” “WE LOVE YOU, MELO”
    “Phil, one year down, four to go. Keep up the good work!”

  34. Probably an anomaly, but how do you explain the 54 win season that Melo also won a scoring title in?

    I would explain it by saying that there are 4 other players on the floor. If Carmelo Anthony can be the centerpiece of a 10-43 team, a 37-45 team, and a 54-28 team in consecutive years (!!!), we should pretty safely assume that his success is immensely contingent on the success of his teammates. That’s because he’s more of an average player, who happens to look, in skill, like an elite player.

    There are a few players who are going to get 10-15 wins on their own each and every year. Carmelo Anthony is not one of those players. He is not even close to one of those players. There’s a reason that you never see Chris Paul or LeBron James on a losing team: because they require just an average supporting cast to get their team to a winning record, because they are awesome, and productive, at professional basketball.

    Disclaimer: I do not conduct independent, peer-reviewed research.

  35. Westbrook had an amazing line tonight: 21 pts, 17 ast in 21 minutes.

    That means he accounted for at least 21 + (17*2) = 55 points in just 21 minutes (I don’t know how many 3’s he assisted on). I think that is ridiculous offensive output from just one guy.

  36. Jowels u had me til you mentioned Chris Paul. He’s not In LeBrons class.

    Not close. No one in this generation is except maybe maybe KD but he’s always played with other greats

  37. I don’t believe he was putting Paul in Lebron’s class, per se, just in a general “well above Melo” class.

    Just like how you would say, “Jason Smith is a terrible player. Players like Lebron James and DJ Augustin are much better than him,” as both Lebron and Augustin are in the general “much better than Jason Smith” class of players.

  38. Chris Paul is year in, year out, one of the very best players in the NBA, and clearly the best point guard in the NBA. The guy rattles off .200+ WS48 seasons year after year, like clockwork. Why? Because he’s an efficient scorer and an otherworldly passer, and protects the basketball. He is a ridiculously brilliant player.

  39. Gotta love Phil Jackson on Twitter:

    Each NBA game is an opportunity for players to show their “best” nature and please the basketball gods…and those who know what “It”takes.

    Today’s game vs Cavs gave bb gods heartburn and those that know what “it” takes/means a smh.

  40. No one touches Bron-Bron, but Paul is in the next tier down, a tier populated by few players.

    http://www.boxscoregeeks.com/players/211-chris-paul

    Ignore the WP48 number, because I’m not interested in that argument today. Check out his STL numbers and then check out his TO numbers. Do you see how he often gets more steals than turnovers in a season?

    Here are some other top ball-handling guards in the league.

    http://www.boxscoregeeks.com/players/348-john-wall
    http://www.boxscoregeeks.com/players/92-stephen-curry
    http://www.boxscoregeeks.com/players/238-russell-westbrook
    http://www.boxscoregeeks.com/players/1309-damian-lillard
    http://www.boxscoregeeks.com/players/148-mike-conley
    http://www.boxscoregeeks.com/players/470-kyrie-irving

    Check it out. Basically, no one does what Chris Paul does when it comes to (1) holding onto the ball and (2) taking it away. You can talk all day about what the box score misses, but a steal by a PG is a steal by a PG, and his numbers have been consistently great in this area, regardless of his teammates.

  41. Each NBA game is an opportunity for players to show their “best” nature and please the basketball gods…and those who know what “It”takes.

    Today’s game vs Cavs gave bb gods heartburn and those that know what “it” takes/means a smh.

    That’s obviously fairly tame, trolling-wise, but it’s still weird to see a dude trolling his own team.

  42. Update to Jowles’ post using independent, peer-reviewed methodology:

    Tier 1: Chris Paul, Charles Barkley, John Stockton, Dennis Rodman, Tyson Chandler
    Tier 2: Michael Jordan, Curry, Calderon
    Tier 3: Conley, Wall, etc.

  43. I am not even going to try and argue Melo’s case vs. Lebron or Paul ha ha. As much as I like the guy, he’s not on the same level.

    That’s fine if he wants to hit restart and get his own players, but he dealt his assets very cheap. Maybe Phil’s weakness is that he’s a bad negotiator. Every deal and the Melo re-signing have been horrendous. Even if he’s a basketball genius, that doesn’t mean he’s a good businessman or negotiator. But, whatever the reason, he’s been doing a deplorable job.

    I don’t think there is too many that would argue the Melo deal was the best in franchise history, however I seem to recall numerous people on this board saying Shump wasn’t worth a lot and no one would be crazy to deal for JR. We could have probably got more, but it does get confusing when the majority of the board undervalue players on the roster, then get up in arms when we don’t get ‘a good deal’. I’ll agree that none of his deals have been home runs, but I am also not going to write off Jackson until after the off-season when we see what he does with a few picks up his sleeve and a bit of cash to play with in the off-season. It sucks to watch the team to be so bad, and I certainly don’t blame people for being pissed off, but I don’t think it’s an entirely doom and gloom situation.

  44. Corrections:
    Tier 1: Chris Paul, Charles Barkley, John Stockton, Dennis Rodman
    Tier 2: Michael Jordan, Tyson Chandler
    Tier 3: Curry, Calderon
    Tier 4: Conley, Wall, etc.

    There that looks much better and makes a whole lot more sense ;) And the Oscar for the most humorous independent peer-reviewed methodology goes to….

  45. Each NBA game is an opportunity for players to show their “best” nature and please the basketball gods…and those who know what “It”takes.

    Are we talking about the same “basketball gods” who arranged it so that Melo’s knee gave out exactly one game into a 5 year mega max contract? Someone must have angered them by signing a guy who has more mileage on those knees than Wilt Chamberlain had on another nether region body part.

  46. I seem to recall numerous people on this board saying Shump wasn’t worth a lot and no one would be crazy to deal for JR. We could have probably got more, but it does get confusing when the majority of the board undervalue players on the roster, then get up in arms when we don’t get ‘a good deal’.

    The consensus of this board has no bearing on the the true value of players.

  47. It’s funny that you “never see Chris Paul on a losing team” because his team has had a losing record 30% of his years in the league. You never see a great player like Kevin Love on a losing team either. What’s that? His team has NEVER had a winning record until this year? How could that be? You mean it actually helps to have good players around you? LeBron is the best that there is but he kinda had a pretty decent supporting cast for the last 5 years or so. By the way, you know who else you “never saw on a losing team” until last year? Carmelo Anthony.

  48. So you’re agreeing with Jowles’

    I would explain it by saying that there are 4 other players on the floor. If Carmelo Anthony can be the centerpiece of a 10-43 team, a 37-45 team, and a 54-28 team in consecutive years (!!!), we should pretty safely assume that his success is immensely contingent on the success of his teammates.

    then?

  49. The consensus of this board has no bearing on the the true value of players.

    No doubt. The GM’s and scouts probably have a better idea, at least you would hope so considering it’s their job ha ha . My point is that it just seems odd that we all gave the ‘assets’ on this roster such low value, that when we got what we did for the players we traded, we were ready to lynch Jackson. I guess that’s just the nature of sports fans ha ha.

  50. There that looks much better and makes a whole lot more sense ;) And the Oscar for the most humorous independent peer-reviewed methodology goes to….

    Wins Produced isn’t the only methodology that says that Rodman is one of the greatest players to ever touch a basketball. (And yo, if you think that it’s crazy to say that Stockton, Barkley and {omg} Chris Paul are all-time greats, we might be watching different sports.)

    http://skepticalsports.com/?page_id=1222

    Here’s my favorite bit from the thing:

    http://skepticalsports.com/?p=267

    “Rodman is in fact not only an outlier, he is such a ridiculously absurd alien-invader outlier that when you take him out of the equation, the equation changes drastically: The negative slope of the regression line nearly doubles in Rodman’s absence. In case you’ve forgotten, let me remind you that Rodman only accounts for 12 data points in this 1000 point sample: If that doesn’t make your jaw drop, I don’t know what will!”

  51. JR mentioned there is no transition offense on Fish/Phil’s playbook, just bring up the ball at half court and play the set. Did notice though that Knicks’ fast-break or transition offense only mostly happens when Tim and/or Larkin on court.

    sigh

    btw, Melo did ok in Denver, making the playoffs each year.
    maybe it is the system/coach/peers..

  52. I don’t get why it’s impossible to acknowledge that Melo has some elite skills that are easy on the eye (but quite marginal – a good team finds a way to score even if it doesn’t have volume scorers, just ask the Hawks or Spurs or even Memphis), while lacking the basketball IQ that’s required to be an efficient player and/or the core basketball skills that might offset some of his most damning flaws (if he was a good team defender, or he earned lots of free throws attacking the rim that could offset his waning lateral quickness or his inability to understand that down 2 in crunch time pulling up from three with 19 seconds remaining on the shot clock is an awful decision).

    That said, Melo is what he is, and none of this is his fault. In his position, many would have done the same. And while Brian is right in saying that any GM picked by Dolan would have offered him the same deal (I actually disagree a bit: they wouldn’t have even asked for that laughable discount in year 2), Phil is supposed to be here to build a foundation, not to pursue a quick fix so we can get to the playoffs (although I think his first try was exactly that, a quick fix – welp). So he gets no pass from me about that signing, after he talked about team-building and sacrifice.

    The real problem I foresee is that Fisher still seems too much in over his head, and that’s a really bad thing. I have minimal faith in Fish coaxing the best out of the Knicks unless somebody else does it for him. While he has given some stability to his rotations, I still don’t understand how and why he decides to play Early or Wear or Acy. I am very, very afraid about our coaching staff. Unless Fish improves a lot, I see him hindering our possible development in year 2 and 3. Just ask Washington: if they had a competent head coach and not Randy Wittman (great shot in the foot by Wizards management), they’d probably be head to head with Atlanta, injuries or not, instead of getting blown out now and then.

  53. Yeah, fair point, Steve Mills wouldn’t have even gotten the $2 million discount in Year 2.

  54. Rodman is one of the greatest players to ever touch a basketball

    But Jowles, how about pointz! If you score <10ppg, you have to be a role player ipso facto!

  55. Hey I think cp3 is a great player but he seems to underachieve quite a bit with pretty good teams. Like the guys never been to the conference finals. That was my point in comparing him to LeBron.

  56. I think the main point is that Melo is several tiers below CP3 Bron Bron and other NBA elites.

    Depending on what stats you look at I think Melo can legitimately range from league-average to solidly above average. He’s got great skills but doesn’t utilize them intelligently and his defense is always a minus so I think solidly above average is his ceiling.

    But this is a song and dance that’s been done over and over on this board so let’s change subject: is D’Angelo Russell a better pick for the Knicks over Okafor or Towns? PG and C are the two positions we’re in the most desperate need to fill.

  57. Fisher still seems too much in over his head, and that’s a really bad thing. I have minimal faith in Fish coaxing the best out of the Knicks unless somebody else does it for him.

    @69 – This observation might be the most astute observation I’ve read here in a while. What has Fisher done to make the players better?

  58. JR has been much better with Cleveland than the Knicks. TS of 55%, up from 49%. His raw shooting % isn’t that much different, but he’s taking more 3s, and more corner 3s, and more of his 3s are assisted.

    Also, he has roughly half the number of TOV/36 and double the number of steals, although his assists are down. PER of 14.4 vs. 11.6.

    He’s also staying out until 1am in CLE, vs. 4:30am in NY, and having 2.3 drinks/night, down from 5.2.

  59. Yeah I think it’s pretty clear that Fisher isn’t a very good coach but most people, PJ included, are gonna give him the benefit of the doubt because of this historically awful team until next year when he continues to be awful and then gets fired.

    Or those are my thoughts on it at least. Fingers crossed he turns it around next year after getting his sea legs.

  60. He’s also staying out until 1am in CLE, vs. 4:30am in NY, and having 2.3 drinks/night, down from 5.2.

    ok this is great

  61. “He’s also staying out until 1am in CLE, vs. 4:30am in NY, and having 2.3 drinks/night, down from 5.2.
    ok this is great”
    It is a great line, but it also underscores an interesting phenomenon on this site — everyone is mad at Jackson, Fisher, Melo and the Knicks organization for not being able to get the best out of JR and Shumpert. How about placing some of the blame on JR, who apparently never gave enough of a crap to stay out of the NY clubs and getting wasted the night before games (even during the playoffs, if Rihanna is to be believed) or stop smoking pot long enough to avoid getting himself suspended? Or how about, instead of making every excuse possible for Shumpert, placing some of the blame on him for his month (or longer) long shooting funks, his failure to improve at all in four years, his inconsistent effort on defense and his stupid bouts of “anger” at the world.

  62. It is a great line, but it also underscores an interesting phenomenon on this site — everyone is mad at Jackson, Fisher, Melo and the Knicks organization for not being able to get the best out of JR and Shumpert. How about placing some of the blame on JR, who apparently never gave enough of a crap to stay out of the NY clubs and getting wasted the night before games (even during the playoffs, if Rihanna is to be believed) or stop smoking pot long enough to avoid getting himself suspended? Or how about, instead of making every excuse possible for Shumpert, placing some of the blame on him for his month (or longer) long shooting funks, his failure to improve at all in four years, his inconsistent effort on defense and his stupid bouts of “anger” at the world.

    +1000
    As for Fisher, the only thing I can think of is Jason Kidd looked not so stellar in his first few months coaching.

  63. I don’t think JR’s better production is coming from not drinking as much, but from a roll he’s better suited for. All Blatt is asking him to do is play defense and shoot 7.5(!) 3’s a game, which he’s doing at a decent .365.

    The Knicks on the other hand expected him to be the team’s 2nd best scorer, basically a star, which he’s not capable of.

    In short putting people at the right place for their skills is not something the Knicks are good at.

  64. “I don’t think JR’s better production is coming from not drinking as much,”
    It’s strange that you don’t attribute it to that at all, but JR himself does.

  65. I don’t think JR’s better production is coming from not drinking as much, but from a roll he’s better suited for. All Blatt is asking him to do is play defense and shoot 7.5(!) 3’s a game, which he’s doing at a decent .365.

    The Knicks on the other hand expected him to be the team’s 2nd best scorer, basically a star, which he’s not capable of.

    In short putting people at the right place for their skills is not something the Knicks are good at.

    Thank You.

    Also WTF is up with the Knicks and hiding injuries. http://nypost.com/2015/02/23/carmelo-played-much-of-season-with-tear-in-his-knee/

  66. johnno @82, my guess is he’s feeling more comfortable admitting to a character flaw than saying outright he’s not a star but a roll player. Many of these guys have moon size egos.

  67. Normally, I wish former Knicks nothing but the best in their future endeavors (Amare, Prigs) but in the case of Shump and JR, I hope Cleveland flames out early in the playoffs. I’m kind of tired of hearing how great things are in Cleveland and how much more fun it is, how about a little “I appreciated and valued my time in NY but this is a great opportunity etc. etc.”

    And I’m sure they really enjoyed rubbing it in the faces of the MSG crowd with their little alley oop dunk play (when the Cavs were up by 25 of course)

  68. @76 That is an awesome line. It actually raises the idea though when was the last time someone played better in NY vs other teams? I can not think of any actual impact players in recent times since players simply do not play well here or we acquire their corpse. Is the environment in NY really that toxic? Can Dolan really that negative of a direct effect? Lakers historically do not have this issue. Off the top of my head one could possibly could make arguments for: Spreewell? Melo? Lin-low sample size? Tyson-for a few years? Perhaps we need to stop targeting players who are “from NY’ who can “handle NY lifestyle/media” and look for guys who keep to themselves and just want to play ball.

  69. It actually raises the idea though when was the last time someone played better in NY vs other teams?

    Just off the top of my head from the past few years as guys who Knicks have picked up off the scrap heap who had career resurgence’s: Novak, Shawne “Extra E” Williams, Chris Copeland, Lin (as you mentioned).

  70. I think Glew’s issue is taking guys who are “under achievers” or “headcases” or “talented but flawed” and expecting them to figure it all out in NY. There is a long list of guys that NY has tried to reclaim, and the results aren’t great. Is it because of NY, or is it because reclamation projects rarely work out? Hard to say. But there may be something to the culture in New York (media, social, internal, etc) that isn’t conducive to success on the court, and so Glew’s suggestion that NY look for a different kind of personality altogether is a pretty good one. Guys like Kwai Leonard, for example; (however, guys like Leonard may want no piece of the NY circus at all, so you’d need to draft them, not sign them. In free agency you’re left solely with guys that a) want to come to NY, and b) don’t get offers from anybody else).

  71. It’s not “New York” that’s the problem. It’s the “knicks”. They’re a turrible organization.

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