2012 Game Thread: O’Knicks v. McPacers

Raise a glass of the good stuff, lads. Hopefully the luck o’ the Irish travels all the way to the dawny town of Indianapolis. As that noted son of Eire, James Joyce, wrote of our bonny ‘Bockers:

“Your battles inspired me – not the obvious material battles but those that were fought and won behind your forehead.”

All your balderdash and idle palaver here…

Liked it? Take a second to support Robert Silverman on Patreon!

Robert Silverman

Hey, did you know that in addition to banging the keys here and occasionally for the NY Times and at ESPN, Robert is a playwright, an actor and a wand'ring mendicant/gadfly? He also once wrestled a bear...and lost.

460 thoughts to “2012 Game Thread: O’Knicks v. McPacers”

  1. use the other thread, Brian presided over the Portland blowout:

    knickerblogger.net/2012-game-thread-new-york-indiana

  2. Is there anything more annoying than when the opposing team’s commentators or sideline reporters refer to their supposed guns by their initials….sideline reporter just called darren collison DC….and I know the Portland guys call Aldridge LA constantly…as if it weren’t enough that most are huge homers….I hate road games because I have to watch the opposing team’s feed on league pass.

  3. supposed top guns (i.e. top players) I meant to say…not actual artillery or weaponry.

  4. ugh, I hate the green uniforms. I don’t care what day it is, we’re not the bleeping Celtics.

  5. How about Landry with the hop-step strong finish in the lane? Jeremy, please please keep your dribble this game against the high hard trap.

  6. Didn’t realize how good George is. That’s the difference in that team from years past.

  7. Wouldn’t it be nice if we played a road game against a good team in which we didn’t trail essentially throughout the entire game, constantly fighting from behind….that would be so novel!

  8. @22

    We haven’t beaten a quality opponent on the road all year. And that’s factorial.

  9. already it is obvious our defense sucks tonight and doesn’t even resemble last night’s…whereas Indiana’s is much improved…not good.

  10. JK47:
    Landry Fields should never shoot a 3 ever again.

    True. But he didn’t have a choice since Lin threw it to him with a second left after getting it with four. JR on the other hand can shoot threes all game long.

  11. They’ll keep going at Lin and defensive switching if Knicks don’t make an adjustment.

  12. I hate Landry Fields so much, I count the seconds at the start of every game until he is pulled.

  13. Oh, we’re not getting any calls. Jeffries definitely should have gotten he charge

  14. Time for Fields to lose his starting job.

    A NBA starting SG needs to be able to make 3 pointers in 2012

  15. I’ve said it all season: Field’s shot is broken. Whatever tinkering the coaches have had him do has backfired horribly. Look for him to fix his form for next season.

  16. Its not good when the other team is making everything and then on the rare occasion that they do miss they get the offensive rebound.

  17. My 9 year old just looked at me and said, “did Bibby just make that? Bibby? Oh my god…? The green must be getting to him. I can’t believe Bibby actually scored.”
    Kids know…

  18. Maybe we should play Novak as the starting 2 guard over Landry! HAHHAHAHA….I think he can knock down the 3! ridiculous this guy!

  19. Second unit played fantastic D in 2nd quarter….changed the game around in Knicks’ favor….that and draining some 3’s, of course, helps!

  20. My only fear is that Woodson might start believing that Bibby is still, y’know, an actual NBA baller.

  21. Those may have been Bibby’s best minutes of the season (aside from that one Detroit game in which he was drilling 3’s non-stop).

  22. starters are back in, so a 12-point lead should be a 3-point deficit by halftime.

  23. Nice play by Fields…
    Oh, wait, it’s vogue to be hating him…
    Um…damn you for not…um…shooting a 3 instead…?
    Lol

  24. highpick and roll not getting much done right now. Need to get back to some side screen and rolls and other sets. Defense playing well. BOTH UNITS playing well.

  25. art vandelay:
    Those may have been Bibby’s best minutes of the season (aside from that one Detroit game in which he was drilling 3?s non-stop).

    Bibby was tanking so that D’Antoni would quit.

  26. Frank O.:
    Nice play by Fields…
    Oh, wait, it’s vogue to be hating him…
    Um…damn you for not…um…shooting a 3 instead…?
    Lol

    yeah, strangely when he does a nice thing like that nobody comments…

  27. the abortion that is Fields’ new shooting form is reason enough for the firing of MDA

  28. JR Smith is such an enigma. Forget from game-to-game its quarter-to-quarter with him lol

  29. BigBlueAL: JR Smith is such an enigma. Forget from game-to-game its quarter-to-quarter with him lol

    great-bad.Still doing enough small things to be a contributor on floor when his shot isn’t there.

    This team can be decent one day.

  30. Lin keyed that defensive effort in the late first half surge, along with Chandler. Good to see those guys finding a way together.

  31. Need to come out strong in the third. Teams are expecting the Knicks to come out flat.

  32. Nice first half. Let’s just hope they don’t give up 42 4th quarter points again. This is the second time I’ve seen Indiana play. I’m having a hard time seeing why they are in the top 5 of the East.

  33. The Knicks gave up only 16 points in the 2nd quarter after giving up 35 in the 1st half.

  34. Lots to like about this game so far. Only 4 turnovers in the first half, and the Knicks have 18 FTA to Indiana’s 11. Pacers are ice cold from deep, so hopefully they won’t heat up in the second half.

  35. Thomas B.:
    Nice first half. Let’s just hope they don’t give up 42 4th quarter points again.This is the second time I’ve seen Indiana play. I’m having a hard time seeing why they are in the top 5 of the East.

    It could just be that we’re better than them, making them look worse than they actually are.

  36. Thomas B.:
    Nice first half. Let’s just hope they don’t give up 42 4th quarter points again.This is the second time I’ve seen Indiana play. I’m having a hard time seeing why they are in the top 5 of the East.

    that 42 was meaningless (NY was up by 30 after 3 and a bit scared to not piss off Indiana too much because of tonight), and most nights they don’t play a team this desperate.

    let’s see 24 more minutes of this kind of effort, long way to go.

  37. Thomas B.: Nice first half. Let’s just hope they don’t give up 42 4th quarter points again. This is the second time I’ve seen Indiana play. I’m having a hard time seeing why they are in the top 5 of the East.

    Really? That’s a good team. Great balance and all the pieces fit together– all the ingredients without star.

    The apply good ball pressure,too. Their defensive rating isn’t a fluke.

    They played really hard in the first half. Should be an indication of how good the Knicks CAN be.

  38. massive: It could just be that we’re better than them, making them look worse than they actually are.

    This. Better when they play like they can and SHOULD.

  39. jon abbey: by leaving Collison open time and again? huh?

    Wait, so Collison was open on the last shot of the half or did he have someone defending him out to the wing for a contested long jumper? I didn’t see.

  40. jon abbey: by leaving Collison open time and again? huh?

    Yeah, huge difference between Lin and Shump. Collison isthe guy getting them opens shots in halfcourt.George is a really good player,too

  41. Hearing Breen say that Woodson was yelling at Stat and Fields made me happy. He brings an intensity at the coaching position, and you can see it in the players. This team actually looks like it cares.

  42. drewbreez: Wait, so Collison was open on the last shot of the half or did he have someone defending him out to the wing for a contested long jumper? I didn’t see.

    JFC.Lin’s played a very good first half overal. But waytoo much space against Collison.

  43. massive: Hearing Breen say that Woodson was yelling at Stat and Fields made me happy. He brings an intensity at the coaching position, and you can see it in the players. This team actually looks like it cares.

    Yeah, makes you wonder.

  44. drewbreez: Wait, so Collison was open on the last shot of the half or did he have someone defending him out to the wing for a contested long jumper? I didn’t see.

    did you miss the few minutes before that?

  45. Lin has the highest average degree of difficulty on his shots of anyone since I think Chris Mullin, but he keeps hitting them.

  46. Woodson seems to be bringing a different voice that is much needed. The team is essentially still playing the same offense and the rotation is the same as it was before but the intensity and overall vibe of the team has changed compared to the losing streak.

    Of course I still say if Pierce doesnt hit that 3pter they dont go into a tailspin and D’Antoni still is coach but as Melo likes to say it is what it is.

  47. jon abbey: that 42 was meaningless (NY was up by 30 after 3 and a bit scared to not piss off Indiana too much because of tonight), and most nights they don’t play a team this desperate.

    let’s see 24 more minutes of this kind of effort, long way to go.

    I don;t care how much you are up by, or how large a margin of victory you had. You can not give up 42 points in a quarter. And they better not repeat that tonight.

  48. ruruland:
    JJ is the first half MVP.

    4-4 from the line from him is unheard of, that right there shows you the team focus is great.

  49. d-mar:
    Is Chandler the Knicks best help defender since the Oak man?

    Kurt Thomas and Marcus Camby were pretty damn good help defenders.

  50. jon abbey: 4-4 from the line from him is unheard of, that right there shows you the team focus is great.

    Agreed. Extra effort plays by almost everyone on both ends, too. This has all the makings.

  51. Thomas B.: I don;t care how much you are up by, or how large a margin of victory you had. You can not give up 42 points in a quarter.And they better not repeat that tonight.

    I’ve been agreeing with you a lot lately, but you couldn’t be more wrong, especially when you’re playing the same team the next night. total garbage time irrelevancy, move on.

  52. dogrufus:
    the abortion that is Fields’ new shooting form is reason enough for the firing of MDA

    Just saying, it’s likely that Kenny Atkinson worked on his shot, just like he worked with Jeremy Lin. Sometimes it works, sometimes it don’t.

  53. I hate myself for sneaking off and turning the game on… So much for my OccupyMSG boycott. Lasted a full 2 1/2 games.

    In the words of Crash Davis: “Fuck this fucking game.”

  54. jon abbey: I’ve been agreeing with you a lot lately, but you couldn’t be more wrong,

    Funny. I was thinking the same thing. :-) I’ll leave it alone. We don’t need to go back to the old days.

  55. ruruland: Yeah, huge difference between Lin and Shump. Collison isthe guy getting them opens shots in halfcourt.George is a really good player,too

    On defense, I think Lin has a lot of screens set against him. It’s possible I just notice it more with Lin bc it more often than not results in teammates having to come help, but I think it does happen to Lin more than the other guards. With Knicks defensive switching, the screens often create messed up mismatches. In one play in the second quarter, after a defensive switch and miscommunication, no one was on the ball handler who was left completely open.

  56. d-mar:
    Is Chandler the Knicks best help defender since the Oak man?

    I actually think Jeffries is a better help defender

  57. Lin is doing a pretty good job of getting into the lane on Collison. Then he strips him like he was a D leaguer.

  58. Fields 59% from the line? Holy shit that’s terrible from a starting shooting guard.

  59. jon abbey:
    Lin has the highest average degree of difficulty on his shots of anyone since I think Chris Mullin, but he keeps hitting them.

    There is another example of what you said.

  60. You know for someone accused of forcing a coaching change so the offense could be about him, Melo has been pretty low key.

  61. 59% from the line is pretty much terrible for any professional basketball player in general!

  62. the Knicks could use a credible 3pt threat on the floor with their first unit. I really think the guards (read: Fields) inability to hit from outside hurts – a couple of threes made could’ve pushed the lead beyond 12-14 pts… down to 6 now.

  63. Lin slacked on the rotation that led to that late Landry Fields run out/George 3. He also took accountability in the the huddle after Woodson reamed Fields.

  64. Looks like Fields was saying he had to swing to cover and Amare needed to shift to the three.
    Interesting that Fields was arguing with Woodson there. Tense. Needs to be watched,

  65. It sure would be nice if one of our two max contract guys would just go beast mode in a big game and carry the team to a victory. Not gonna hold my breath on that one.

  66. First chance to watch during the Woodson era…I really do like how quickly he’s willing to yank players. Hopefully I’ll never have to think, “why the heck is ________ still in the game!?”

    Meanwhile, Chandler’s 4th foul = bad news.

  67. More arguing and communicating about what happens on the floor would serve this team well. It’s certainly not the tone now, which seems either jovial or befuddled during losses and irrationally ecstatic during wins. Scream at each other a lil bit, get engaged in the action.

  68. JK47:
    It sure would be nice if one of our two max contract guys would just go beast mode in a big game and carry the team to a victory.Not gonna hold my breath on that one.

    defnitely not…

  69. Paul George is a pretty interesting player, have never seen him play.

    Not a good quarter from the Knicks, going to be interesting…

  70. bad sequence there

    but at least they still have the lead.

    Is it me, or is the perimeter play on offense (dribbling, etc) looking ragged?

  71. It really was too much to ask to blow these guys out 2 nights in a row, but hey, we’re winning after 3, not the worst situation to be in.

  72. BigBlueAL:
    Shump has been God awful offensively tonight.

    Of course the Knicks could help him with his shot in the offseason and really destroy it.
    Honestly, his offense is generally bad. But his D…

  73. “wtf JR! Don’t shoot a contested fadeaway three so early in the shot cl– oh wait nice job.”

  74. Wow. That’s probably the worst offensive possession I’ve ever seen. WTF was that from Indiana?

  75. BigBlueAL:
    Shump has been God awful offensively tonight.

    you guys look too much at box scores, he’s had a bunch of great passes followed by missed shots.

  76. Z:
    That was the worst half-court set I’ve ever seen. Great D, or Pacer ineptitude??

    Definitely ineptitute, mercifully ended with some Knicks D (i.e. catching the 4th bad pass of that sequence).

  77. jock cowles:
    “wtf JR! Don’t shoot a contested fadeaway three so early in the shot cl– oh wait nice job.”

    could you stick to being one cock at a time? k thx bye.

  78. I’ve seen only a few plays in this game: Amar’e getting blocked by the rim on a reverse dunk, Amar’e getting blocked, Bibby missing a turnaround layup, and the tall white pacer with the Matt Pollard hair bouncing the ball off of everyone her can find.

    Has the whole game been like this, or am I only catching the “highlights”?

  79. jon abbey: you guys look too much at box scores, he’s had a bunch of great passes followed by missed shots.

    You’re more predictable in your defense of Shump. Is he paying you? Lol
    Like Fields, Shump does some good things and some bad.

  80. Amare was getting blocked….but by Hibbert….that is excusable….he looks a lot quicker to me at least….maybe he doesn’t have all the lift and elevation back completely, but the shedding of the weight seems to have made him quicker, and he doesn’t lose the ball as much (or at least now knows his limitations better and doesn’t ram the ball through four people in traffic off the dribble).

  81. Frank O.: You’re more predictable in your defense of Shump. Is he paying you? Lol
    Like Fields, Shump does some good things and some bad.

    he does indeed, like every other player in the league.

  82. Z:
    I’ve seen only a few plays in this game: Amar’e getting blocked by the rim on a reverse dunk, Amar’e getting blocked, Bibby missing a turnaround layup, and the tall white pacer with the Matt Pollard hair bouncing the ball off of everyone her can find.

    Has the whole game been like this, or am I only catching the “highlights”?

    Believe it or not Amar’e played well in the 1st half

  83. Z:
    I’ve seen only a few plays in this game: Amar’e getting blocked by the rim on a reverse dunk, Amar’e getting blocked, Bibby missing a turnaround layup, and the tall white pacer with the Matt Pollard hair bouncing the ball off of everyone her can find.

    Has the whole game been like this, or am I only catching the “highlights”?

    Amazing how often Amare is rejected. Now it’s the rim

  84. Lin does that rainmaker shot inside the paint. I don’t recall another player so routinely doing that.

  85. Frank O.:
    Lin does that rainmaker shot inside the paint. I don’t recall another player so routinely doing that.

    Mark Jackson specialty, that and having a huge ass.

  86. jon abbey: could you stick to being one cock at a time? k thx bye.

    Fear not! I am not the despicable CJ. I’m a long-time reader, first-time poster who made his username based off the following post:

    Z-man: I sometimes get Frank and Frank O confused.Then there are a couple of spree’s and ruru’s out there…it’s all good. I’m expecting a rosy glass-half-full guy named Jock Cowles to sign up any day now :)

  87. where is Melo? definitely not doing his part tonight.

    refs doing a nice job calling fouls on whoever they can to keep everyone out of foul trouble.

  88. jock cowles: Fear not! I am not the despicable CJ. I’m a long-time reader, first-time poster who made his username based off the following post:

    “I don’t believe you, you’re a liar.”-Bob Dylan

  89. jock cowles: Fear not! I am not the despicable CJ. I’m a long-time reader, first-time poster who made his username based off the following post:

    Ha!

  90. JK47:
    Melo is such a mediocrity.I can’t stand watching his tepid, inefficient play.

    he did dominate Granger last night, but he is sucking so far in this one.

  91. KnicksFanInVA:
    We’re getting a few lucky breaks.

    Some, but like the linsanity run, the D is making magic happen. It helps that Indiana isn’t a good scoring team. But we’re getting effort on D.

  92. Yep, Melo not having a great night but he’s been on the floor for loose balls a couple of times, which I’m happy to see. I’m not defending his results, just glad to see the effort.

  93. JK47:
    Melo is such a mediocrity.I can’t stand watching his tepid, inefficient play.

    Who the f— cares whether Melo scores a lot? We’re up by 9 on the road!

  94. Melo is in a slump. Everyone needs to chill. Frustrating yes, but we’ll be ok.

  95. It feels like a luxury to have the lead for most of the game. Such a new feeling.

  96. Wow. It’s like the refs are making up for all the fouls they didn’t call for Lin for the past 10 games.

  97. JK47:
    Melo is such a mediocrity.I can’t stand watching his tepid, inefficient play.

    We get it you don’t like the guy

  98. jon abbey: “I don’t believe you, you’re a liar.”-Bob Dylan

    Greatest response to being called Judas ever :)

    As for Jock Cowles, I don’t know. But I am positive that Ruruland and Ruruland2 are the same person, though I’m not sure who greenlit the sequel.

  99. d-mar: Who the f— cares whether Melo scores a lot? We’re up by 9 on the road!

    We’d be up 9 without him but we are paying him $20 million…

  100. He got fouled there, but what was up with that from Melo? Why didn’t he just dunk it? Intimidated by Hibbert I guess….

  101. Smith lost his confidence quickly as he found it.
    Melo should have dunked his chance

  102. B.A.B.K.:
    I can’t recall a game this season where Melo has really dominated. Am I wrong?

    He’s gonna be fine, everybody relax

  103. Hmm, about 10 days ago it seemed like other teams were doing to us what we’re doing to the Pacers. And they haven’t been as inconsistent as us. This feels…good.

  104. NY2MIA: We get it you don’t like the guy

    You know what? I went to Syracuse, I supported the Melo trade and I continued to defend him way longer than most people here. I’m just sick of watching him suck.

  105. Alright, nice assist from Melo….

    I got to say Melo is really playing terrible. He is a lot better than this. You got to wonder if he is injured…

  106. Z: Greatest response to being called Judas ever :)

    As for Jock Cowles, I don’t know. But I am positive that Ruruland and Ruruland2 are the same person, though I’m not sure who greenlit the sequel.

    lol I certainly didn’t mean to stir up any controversy. How can I prove my non-THC identity? Nice finish there by Melo.

  107. Btw, ruruland posted a link earlier in another thread of when melo scored 33 as a nugget in one quarter…after watching it (and I encourage you all to do so) there is no question melo is out of shape…he looked MUCH quicker, dynamic and agile in that video….I assume he can’t be physically on the decline as he is only 27, but he definitely has lost that quick first step this season and also he barely can jump….

  108. JK47: You know what?I went to Syracuse, I supported the Melo trade and I continued to defend him way longer than most people here.I’m just sick of watching him suck.

    So what

  109. The best part of Lin’s line– only 2 TOs.

    And, I feel he wasn’t on the floor quite so much tonight

  110. Z: I might learn to like it, if he makes ‘em.

    dude is +18 tonight, he’s doing something right.

  111. This is a big sweep, folks. They just pounded a conference rival ahead in the standings.
    Tough beating. Good team twice in a home and home

  112. art vandelay:
    also, didn’t someone want to trade STAT last week for David West? LOL!!!

    I think Owen might have been right about West, he benefitted a lot from playing with Chris Paul.

  113. The energy the Knicks showed in the 4th can be credited to Mr. Potatohead’s subbing patterns. He isn’t heavy-handed with his roations, getting contributions fromm all kinds of guys. Bibby? I like. Also doesn’t kowtow to contracts or pouty players. Pleasant surprise.

  114. Frank O.:
    This is a big sweep, folks. They just pounded a conference rival ahead in the standings.
    Tough beating. Good team twice in a home and home

    You could argue it’s their most impressive road win of the year, maybe behind that comeback @ Minnesota. 8-14 away from home!

  115. The best thing about this was Woodson being an engaged coach, nd this coming from someone who never called for D’Antoni’s firing.

  116. David West is also really overrated in my book….

    I do think Melo’s conditioning is an issue, but he is also on the wrong side of the age curve….

  117. Melo will have an explosion at some point. It’s simply a matter of when.

    But he’s doing everything he needs to be doing outside of that, within the team concept.

    That’s a minor story given how impressive this was tonight. I’m not sure people realize how difficult a b2b win against an amped up team is.

  118. Totally sweet. Great line from Lin tonight. 19 pts, 6 assists (2to’s), 7 rebounds

  119. Owen:
    David West is also really overrated in my book….

    I do think Melo’s conditioning is an issue, but he is also on the wrong side of the age curve….

    Please. he’s had struggles like this before. I know what they look like, and I know when Melo isn’t playing with confidence.

    Just a great win.

  120. Best road win of the year by far. MVP of this game was Jeremy Lin, who handily outplayed Darren Collison.

  121. Melo played pretty bad tonight on both ends of the court but as long as he doesnt force it on offense which he didnt do tonight cant complain much. He also was much more active on D in the 4th quarter than he was in the 1st half.

  122. Owen:
    David West is also really overrated in my book….

    I do think Melo’s conditioning is an issue, but he is also on the wrong side of the age curve….

    Honestly, I think he’s still adjusting to a team that doesn’t want or need him to take all the big shots. He seems to become disengaged

  123. thyrdrail:
    LIN ONLY HAD 2 TO’S!! HE’S IMPROVING

    He was pretty fortunate to avoid a few, and the scorekeeper missed a couple, but he played very well overall.

    I thought everyone played well, actually. You can talk about who made and missed shots all night, but this was a team win. That’s what team wins look like.

  124. BigBlueAL:
    Melo played pretty bad tonight on both ends of the court but as long as he doesnt force it on offense which he didnt do tonight cant complain much.He also was much more active on D in the 4th quarter than he was in the 1st half.

    Some nice dishes,too

  125. BigBlueAL:
    Melo played pretty bad tonight on both ends of the court but as long as he doesnt force it on offense which he didnt do tonight cant complain much.He also was much more active on D in the 4th quarter than he was in the 1st half.

    Yeah, but he won’t get credit for his decent defense tonight. Granger was 5-15.

  126. BigBlueAL:
    Melo played pretty bad tonight on both ends of the court but as long as he doesnt force it on offense which he didnt do tonight cant complain much.He also was much more active on D in the 4th quarter than he was in the 1st half.

    He gave up one backdoor basket to Granger and he played bad on defense? Granger was 5-15 for 11 points…..

    He was making good team decisions offensively, and if he makes a couple free throws its a 60% TS.

    Feel free to write the book on Melo now. I’ll be enjoying the comments when he has that game.

    What about Amar’e night? Really excellent again from him.

  127. “Please. he’s had struggles like this before. I know what they look like, and I know when Melo isn’t playing with confidence.
    Just a great win.”

    What is that supposed to mean? That he isn’t playing with confidence?

    If he has ever had a 35 game stretch as bad as the one he is having right now, I don’t know why anyone thinks he is a star player.

  128. Would have liked to see more Novak though. He has the ability to shoot us back into games when we’re up against the ropes.

    Also, Chicago tied with Philly after only scoring 11 in the first quarter! Here’s hoping Philly and Boston lose tonight.

  129. Frank O.: Some nice dishes,too

    Yup. Cant really complain much about his performance tonight. Frustrating to see him shoot as poorly as he is shooting but we have to assume/hope that will eventually turn around.

  130. Frank O.: Honestly, I think he’s still adjusting to a team that doesn’t want or need him to take all the big shots. He seems to become disengaged

    Nah. He just can’t make a shot right now. When he misses free throws like that he’s questioning himself subconsciously, I believe.

    I’ve seen these phases, perhaps not quite as long, but this is what they look like. When he has that game this team is going to be something else.

  131. Mulligan:
    Would have liked to see more Novak though. He has the ability to shoot us back into games when we’re up against the ropes.

    but we were winning, he was missing, and he is one of the worst defensive guys in the rotation.

  132. BigBlueAL: Melo played pretty bad tonight on both ends of the court but as long as he doesnt force it on offense which he didnt do tonight cant complain much.

    I dunno I think you can complain when a $20 mil player “plays pretty bad on both ends of the court.” It doesn’t really matter, ’cause we won, but…

  133. ruruland: He gave up one backdoor basket to Granger and he played bad on defense? Granger was 5-15 for 11 points…..

    He was making good team decisions offensively, and if he makes a couple free throws its a 60% TS.

    Feel free to write the book on Melo now. I’ll be enjoying the comments when he has that game.

    What about Amar’e night? Really excellent again from him.

    You really are a bit too sensitive when it comes to Melo. Its actually a bit scary.

  134. Retarded question (I know):

    How do I highlight someone else’s comment on here so that it appears in grey in order to reference it in my own submission?

  135. Owen:
    “Please. he’s had struggles like this before. I know what they look like, and I know when Melo isn’t playing with confidence.
    Just a great win.”

    What is that supposed to mean? That he isn’t playing with confidence?

    If he has ever had a 35 game stretch as bad as the one he is having right now, I don’t know why anyone thinks he is a star player.

    Then don’t think that. Who cares?

    You’re just baiting me. When Melo does get it back I’m sure you’ll write it off as some SSS deal or whatever. I know what your angle is and whenever Melo finds it again it won’t be enough to raise his efficiency to normal levels at this point. So, he’ll be “on the decline”. Just as he was in ’04-’05, just as he was heading into mid March in ’08.

    Enjoy the win, the defense and the team play.

  136. art vandelay:
    Retarded question (I know):

    How do I highlight someone else’s comment on here so that it appears in grey in order to reference it in my own submission?

    hit the ‘quote’ button in their post.

  137. art vandelay:
    Retarded question (I know):

    How do I highlight someone else’s comment on here so that it appears in grey in order to reference it in my own submission?

    You press “Quote” on the comment you want to reference.

  138. art vandelay:
    Retarded question (I know):

    How do I highlight someone else’s comment on here so that it appears in grey in order to reference it in my own submission?

    Click on quote. Thats all I do.

  139. Melo did outplay Granger, clearly this team is going to win (if they win) on depth.

    which is good, because they’re really fucking deep.

  140. BigBlueAL: You really are a bit too sensitive when it comes to Melo.Its actually a bit scary.

    Ok. I’ll just let you trash him for his defense when he had the highest +/- on the floor among starters and held Granger to an absolutely awful game.

    Go for it. Need something to bitch about.

  141. jon abbey: but we were winning, he was missing, and he is one of the worst defensive guys in the rotation.

    And yet…and yet…Novak has actually played pretty hard on D. Gotta give a little love to the porcelain glove…

  142. I thought Melo had a “Jared Jeffries” type game tonight. His box was ugly, but he was passing off the double (shoot, even Melo deferred to Novak on the one play), had to put up shots late in the clock and his help D was solid. I thought Lin definitely should’ve fed him the ball more in the sloppy parts of the third, so as to keep his rhythm going.

  143. ruruland: Ok. I’ll just let you trash him for his defense when he had the highest +/- on the floor among starters and held Granger to an absolutely awful game.

    Go for it. Need something to bitch about.

    I praised him for playing excellent defense in the 4th quarter. But his D in the 1st quarter was horrible and I mentioned it at the time. He also got benched half-way thru the 3rd quarter because he was playing so bad.

    He finished shooting 6 for 13 which was alot better than I thought (his 3pt and FT shooting was bad which is what made it seem like he shot bad the entire game). I also praised him for not forcing it on offense and agreed he made some nice passes when that was pointed out.

    WTF more do you want, sorry Im not going to pull on his nuts at all times like you do.

  144. BigBlueAL: I praised him for playing excellent defense in the 4th quarter.But his D in the 1st quarter was horrible and I mentioned it at the time.He also got benched half-way thru the 3rd quarter because he was playing so bad.

    He finished shooting 6 for 13 which was alot better than I thought (his 3pt and FT shooting was bad which is what made it seem like he shot bad the entire game).I also praised him for not forcing it on offense and agreed he made some nice passes when that was pointed out.

    WTF more do you want, sorry Im not going to pull on his nuts at all times like you do.

    Ok. But I just find it interesting that people think I’m the one obsessed with the topic. So many good things to talk about.

  145. jon abbey:
    Melo did outplay Granger, clearly this team is going to win (if they win) on depth.

    which is good, because they’re really fucking deep.

    And if Amare and Melo hadn’t gone down and our guard play was even passable, we would have never known it. Astounding really. This season started with the knock being this team had no bench and Melo, Stat and Chandler would need to clock ridiculous minutes

  146. “You’re just baiting me. When Melo does get it back I’m sure you’ll write it off as some SSS deal or whatever. I know what your angle is and whenever Melo finds it again it won’t be enough to raise his efficiency to normal levels at this point. So, he’ll be “on the decline”. Just as he was in ’04-’05, just as he was heading into mid March in ’08.”

    I am not baiting you.

    Look, we can’t even argue about how good a player Melo is. Because right now, he is playing so incredibly badly that it’s not worth arguing about.

    When he gets back to his level of previous years, we can have an argument about what that is worth and I can really troll you.

    I look forward to that happening, if I take your word for it that Melo explosion is just right around the corner. I hope so.

  147. Certainly the most impressive of the three wins. Falling behind by seven early and then taking control, withstanding the third quarter run and then pulling away. And it wasn’t fueled by crazy three point shooting. Nobody besides maybe Lin had a really good game and they still handily won against a pretty good team.

  148. Frank O.:
    Lin does that rainmaker shot inside the paint. I don’t recall another player so routinely doing that.

    Steve Nash’s bread and butter when he gets a big man switched onto him. Take him towards the basket then fall away jumpshot with a ton of arc.

    jon abbey: I think Owen might have been right about West, he benefitted a lot from playing with Chris Paul.

    West was great with Collison in New Orleans the year Paul missed like half the season. My guess is it’s more that he’s still recovering from a bad injury.

  149. nicos:
    Certainly the most impressive of the three wins.Falling behind by seven early and then taking control, withstanding the third quarter run and then pulling away.And it wasn’t fueled by crazy three point shooting.Nobody besides maybe Lin had a really good game and they still handily won against a pretty good team.

    yep, only one three made after halftime.

    I was surprised that Clyde was giving them a hard time for driving so much, clearly it was working as an overall philosophy.

  150. jon abbey: but we were winning, he was missing, and he is one of the worst defensive guys in the rotation.

    I’m thinking of that stretch where we couldn’t get a bucket and they got it back to 1. Obviously we pulled it out quite well, but that seems like a great time to stick with Novak.

  151. max fisher-cohen: Steve Nash’s bread and butter when he gets a big man switched onto him. Take him towards the basket then fall away jumpshot with a ton of arc.

    West was great with Collison in New Orleans the year Paul missed like half the season. My guess is it’s more that he’s still recovering from a bad injury.

    It may also be the weight-lifting. West’s guns are anthoy Mason ridiculous.

  152. NattyIce:
    Damn, JR was a plus 20 on the game.Our bench is our ace in the hole.

    what’s going to get tricky is who plays down the stretch of close, important games. nice to see Shumpert in there tonight before he got elbowed in the face, his D is insane.

  153. You know, you could see the Knicks got to Indi, too. The drives were getting them into foul trouble. Good team take what you give them. Indi had to extend to deal with the 3s, whichnleftthem vulnerable to the drives.
    Hibbert was far less imposing defensively than I expected.

  154. Woodson is going to get all the credit, but the team is 3-0 since OccupyMSG started. :)

  155. I really hope the 76ers go into a crazy tailspin with this losing streak. Nothing personal, just kind of feel like they’re overrated and I want the Knicks to do the improbable and vault to the top of the Atlantic.

    I also want the Celtics to go into a horrible tailspin, but that’s personal.

  156. Frank O.:
    You know, you could see the Knicks got to Indi, too. The drives were getting them into foul trouble. Good team take what you give them. Indi had to extend to deal with the 3s, whichnleftthem vulnerable to the drives.
    Hibbert was far less imposing defensively than I expected.

    It’s a total skull fuck for them. It’s the kind of 2 game deal that can send them into a really bad stretch. It was, in essence, a playoff win on the road against a 4 or 5 seed…

    It’s establishes the kind of thoughts this team will need to win on the road in the playoffs.

  157. Seriously, what game were you guys watching? Melo played in control, strong defensive effort, didnt force anything. Got to the line, drew fouls. Not a ‘superstar’ performance, but certainly solid. Finally win a road game against a top team and the focus is on what Melo did wrong? Cmon….

  158. I really can’t believe that after a he-man, tough-ass road victory over a pretty decent team, we’re spending most of the time arguing about whether Melo sucks or not. He didn’t earn his 20 million tonight, and I don’t give a crap, we won the game. Get over it.

  159. JR Sec 112:
    Seriously, what game were you guys watching?Melo played in control, strong defensive effort, didnt force anything.Got to the line, drew fouls.Not a ‘superstar’ performance, but certainly solid.Finally win a road game against a top team and the focus is on what Melo did wrong?Cmon….

    I agree with you to an extent, but Lin bailed him out tonight. Melo made a few nice plays at the end to make his line look better, but he’s got to hit his FTs, if nothing else.

  160. it’s also a great sign for this team that Chandler can get decidedly outplayed (by one of the handful of real centers in the league) and NY can still win pretty easily, on the road.

  161. Frank O.: And yet…and yet…Novak has actually played pretty hard on D. Gotta give a little love to the porcelain glove…

    He did play pretty hard and gave good effort…but really was giving his defender a lot of space behind 3-point line…we got burnt a few times as a result by that, but no biggie…he definitely tries…

    Lin still has a penchant for going under screens and letting opposing PG take open 15-footers…had darren collison been Jose Calderon tonight we might have really been hurt by that (but still this is nitpicking…all around he was great)!

  162. JR Sec 112:
    Seriously, what game were you guys watching?Melo played in control, strong defensive effort, didnt force anything.Got to the line, drew fouls.Not a ‘superstar’ performance, but certainly solid.Finally win a road game against a top team and the focus is on what Melo did wrong?Cmon….

    It was a very balanced team win. Melo and stat aren’t wade and Lebron good, which means supporting Knicks players get more touches than the Heat’s supporting players.

  163. Sixers are losing in a way that can really set them back. Blow huge lead against Rose-less Sixers after their coach blew them up at halftime of their previous game.

    They’re vulnerable. C’s are vulnerable. Indiana might be… and I’m not buying Atlanta down the stretch…

  164. ruruland:

    They’re vulnerable. C’s are vulnerable. Indiana might be… and I’m not buying Atlanta down the stretch…

    agree with all of this, but the math is tough, only 21 games left. just keep winning, one game at a time, Toronto up next…

  165. art vandelay: He did play pretty hard and gave good effort…but really was giving his defender a lot of space behind 3-point line…we got burnt a few times as a result by that, but no biggie…he definitely tries…

    Lin still has a penchant for going under screens and letting opposing PG take open 15-footers…had darren collison been Jose Calderon tonight we might have really been hurt by that (but still this is nitpicking…all around he was great)!

    Of course, if it was Calderon, they likely would have run some different covers. I think Lin did well against Collison. Outplayed him.

  166. But the only ones that really count for us are the Sixers and the Celtics. If they fall apart, we can leap into fourth (I know – getting ahead of myself). Indiana or Atlanta in the 1st round, Chicago in the 2nd. That would be pretty sweet…

  167. jon abbey: agree with all of this, but the math is tough, only 21 games left. just keep winning, one game at a time, Toronto up next…

    Only matters that they go in peaking. Knicks play like this, they’re a tough out for anyone.

  168. Frank O.: It was a very balanced team win. Melo and stat aren’t wade and Lebron good, which means supporting Knicks players get more touches than the Heat’s supporting players.

    I thought Ama’re played an excellent game. His defense and rebounding were good again. And 16pts on 8 shots.

    The more balanced you are the better in the playoffs.

    Nothing can make some Knicks happy. If Melo and Amar’e combine for 40 shots and win, they’re black holes freezing Lin out of the game.

  169. jon abbey: I agree with you to an extent, but Lin bailed him out tonight. Melo made a few nice plays at the end to make his line look better, but he’s got to hit his FTs, if nothing else.

    Lin bailed him out??? Seriously, are you kidding? This was a solid win on all fronts, up double digits most of the last 3 quarters – there was no ‘bailout’. And now we critize the FTs? He’s still 80% for the season, best on the starting team.

  170. Mulligan:
    But the only ones that really count for us are the Sixers and the Celtics. If they fall apart, we can leap into fourth (I know – getting ahead of myself). Indiana or Atlanta in the 1st round, Chicago in the 2nd. That would be pretty sweet…

    Right.

  171. JR Sec 112: Lin bailed him out???Seriously, are you kidding?This was a solid win on all fronts, up double digits most of the last 3 quarters – there was no ‘bailout’.And now we critize the FTs?He’s still 80% for the season, best on the starting team.

    um, no. it was a 3 point game with 8 minutes left, 82-79. Lin scored 8 of the next 9 points (plus a Melo T) to push it back to an 11 point lead.

    and I don’t care what he’s shooting for the year, a $20M perimeter scorer needs to hit his FTs if he’s not doing much else.

  172. I know its politically incorrect to say anything bad about Tyson Chandler on this board, but if anyone got bailed out tonight it was him. He let Hibbert mostly have his way in the paint. He wasnt great on the defensive glass.

  173. Knicks put themselves bad hole in win-loss record, but if continue playing this hard defense I see 5 game above 500.

  174. JR Sec 112:
    I know its politically incorrect to say anything bad about Tyson Chandler on this board, but if anyone got bailed out tonight it was him.He let Hibbert mostly have his way in the paint. He wasnt great on the defensive glass.

    yep, I said that already.

    of course Chandler gave a huge effort last night to spark the win and has been the MVP of the team, so he’s allowed a dud here and there.

  175. jon abbey: um, no. it was a 3 point game with 8 minutes left, 82-79. Lin scored 8 of the next 9 points (plus a Melo T) to push it back to an 11 point lead.

    and I don’t care what he’s shooting for the year, a $20M perimeter scorer needs to hit his FTs if he’s not doing much else.

    Again, he’s hitting 80% for the season. I guess you think DHoward will be massively overpaid as well given his 49% FT%. And LeBron at 76%? No way is he worth a max deal. Dwade at 77% for his career – also not max worthy. Cmon, the analysis is weak.

  176. ruruland: I thought Ama’re played an excellent game. His defense and rebounding were good again. And 16pts on 8 shots.

    The more balanced you are the better in the playoffs.

    Nothing can make some Knicks happy. If Melo and Amar’e combine for 40 shots and win, they’re black holes freezing Lin out of the game.

    I can sympathize with the negativity. This has been four distinctly different season’s rolled into one, and the Melo acquisition was difficult for many two swallow, and he’s have a career worst season on top of that.
    But I like that he’s not forcing anything. I like that he’s playing a more complete game, contributing in other ways. Amare too. They both are playing harder on defense lately. The subs have set a standard and the stars need to take note, and it seems they have.
    The big surprise is that the real leaders of this team are Chandler and Jeffries. They’re the guys who set the tone, and Melo and Amare see that and have conformed.
    I can live with Melo getting 6 for 13, and Stat 4 for 8. And Lin.
    But Chandler and Jeffries are impacting the oppositions’ best scorers with their D. Like during Linsanity, this team’s wins start with the D.

  177. JC Knickfan:
    Knicks put themselves bad hole in win-loss record, but if continue playing this hard defense I see 5 game above 500.

    that’s 15-6 from here, so 18-6 under Woodson. I’d be happy with 13-8 and 34-32, but it’ll be interesting to see what this kind of effort every game will bring them.

  178. JR Sec 112: Again, he’s hitting 80% for the season.I guess you think DHoward will be massively overpaid as well given his 49% FT%.And LeBron at 76%?No way is he worth a max deal.Dwade at 77% for his career – also not max worthy.Cmon, the analysis is weak.

    idiocy, I’ll try one more time.

    IF YOU’RE NOT DOING ANYTHING ELSE AND YOU ARE A 20 MILLION DOLLAR PERIMETER SCORER, HIT YOUR FUCKING FREE THROWS OR I WILL BE ON YOUR ASS.

    that is all.

  179. I think we need to cool it on Melo. We won big AGAIN against a very good team, and our offense dominated their defense – a defense which is a top 8 defense this league (actually tied with us going into tonight). Melo spent most of the night being guarded by Paul George and Danny Granger – those two are REALLY good defenders – both long and bigger than Melo and he still had 16 points on only 13 shots (ie. not forcing stuff) and on any normal FT shooting night probably would have had 18 or 19 points on 13 shots. The defense was good and bad but overall good.

    Let’s just enjoy it. Not everyone is going to have an amazing game all the time.

  180. Phases?? Really? DUDE spill the beans , how well do you know the guy , come on, we all know you know him personally by now

    ruruland: Nah. He just can’t make a shot right now. When he misses free throws like that he’s questioning himself subconsciously, I believe.

    I’ve seen these phases, perhaps not quite as long, but this is what they look like. When he has that game this team is going to be something else.

  181. jon abbey: idiocy, I’ll try one more time.

    IF YOU’RE NOT DOING ANYTHING ELSE AND YOU ARE A 20 MILLION DOLLAR PERIMETER SCORER, HIT YOUR FUCKING FREE THROWS OR I WILL BE ON YOUR ASS.

    that is all.

    Again, strong analysis.

  182. JR Sec 112: Again, strong analysis.

    thanks, tell me more about Dwight Howard.

    =====================

    Iman Shumpert ? @I_Am_Iman

    “two very winnable games”…FOH #Knickstape #mobdeep #NYKallday

  183. Not that I want to prove THCJ right again, but Faried has 12 points and 11 boards in 14 minutes. Damn, I hate it when he’s right, although I also liked Faried coming out but had no issue with the Shumpert pick.

  184. I swear one night over the rainbow following a Knicks win or loss the game thread post-game will not devolve into a Melo referendum.

  185. QUICK REACT ME PLEASE, can’t take anymore of this nonsense of making a big deal of missed free throws, typical fans, never happy

  186. I give Melo a lot of credit for staying out of the way, letting the knicks beat the Pacers. For him, that’s a big step forward for him and the team.

  187. Gideon Zaga:
    QUICK REACT ME PLEASE, can’t take anymore of this nonsense of making a big deal of missed free throws, typical fans, never happy

    I’m actually thrilled, just saying that Lin (who I’ve been harder on than Melo) bailed Melo out tonight. maybe it’ll be reversed next game, but it wasn’t tonight.

  188. Gideon Zaga:
    Phases?? Really? DUDE spill the beans , how well do you know the guy , come on, we all know you know him personally by now

    What do you think Melo is doing on the bench with a towel over his head? He’s writing posts as ruruland.

  189. jon abbey: that’s 15-6 from here, so 18-6 under Woodson. I’d be happy with 13-8 and 34-32, but it’ll be interesting to see what this kind of effort every game will bring them.

    34-32 Probably still be the 8th seed, maybe 7th as see Bean-town playing around 500 b-ball team also.

  190. If this was an 82 game season I could easily see the Knicks winning the division. But problem is its only a 66 game season and only 21 games remain which is a pretty big problem.

  191. Gideon Zaga:
    Phases?? Really? DUDE spill the beans , how well do you know the guy , come on, we all know you know him personally by now

    Have I had contact with Melo this year and other years?

    Yes. That’s all I can say.

  192. The last time Knicks played the Raptors was the height of Linsanity. I’m looking forward to the rematch, and expect them to play intense too.

  193. hoolahoop:
    I give Melo a lot of credit for staying out of the way, letting the knicks beat the Pacers. For him, that’s a big step forward for him and the team.

    Phew.

  194. Frank O.: I can sympathize with the negativity. This has been four distinctly different season’s rolled into one, and the Melo acquisition was difficult for many two swallow, and he’s have a career worst season on top of that.
    But I like that he’s not forcing anything. I like that he’s playing a more complete game, contributing in other ways. Amare too. They both are playing harder on defense lately. The subs have set a standard and the stars need to take note, and it seems they have.
    The big surprise is that the real leaders of this team are Chandler and Jeffries. They’re the guys who set the tone, and Melo and Amare see that and have conformed.
    I can live with Melo getting 6 for 13, and Stat 4 for 8. And Lin.
    But Chandler and Jeffries are impacting the oppositions’ best scorers with their D. Like during Linsanity, this team’s wins start with the D.

    Sure. JJ and Chandler are without a doubt the team’s best help defenders. Not really close. But as I commented during the poor stretch the defensive effort was solid, but it was selfish.

    Guys were not making rotations off their man… I got the distinct impression they were playing so that their guy wouldn’t score.

    Now, everyone has everyone elses back. That’s how great defense is played. Lin is a solid team defender, but very average man defender. Melo is a good man defender who’s know playing team defense. Amar’e can be a solid man defender who’s know playing team defense. Same thing with Fields, who’s a poor man defender but playing excellent team defense right now.

  195. Individual performances are hard to distill and matter little when the entire team wins. I’m kind of groov’in on this coach, btw.

  196. daJudge:
    I’m kind of groov’in on this coach, btw.

    me too, although the Bibby stuff makes me nervous, thankfully Baron is expected back next game.

    Woodsonity!

  197. “Have I had contact with Melo this year and other years?
    Yes. That’s all I can say.”

    Lol

    That’s all he can say folks….

  198. Owen:
    “Have I had contact with Melo this year and other years?
    Yes. That’s all I can say.”

    Lol

    That’s all he can say folks….

    ?

  199. ruruland: ?

    you seem like a paid PR guy at times, so it’d be nice to know what exactly is going on there is I believe what my worthy constituent Owen means.

  200. jon abbey: you seem like a paid PR guy at times, so it’d be nice to know what exactly is going on there is I believe what my worthy constituent Owen means.

    I can’t do that. It’s immaterial. I’m not getting paid to post.

    Nuggets playing defense tonight.

  201. Owen:
    “Have I had contact with Melo this year and other years?
    Yes. That’s all I can say.”
    Lol
    That’s all he can say folks….

    ?

    Just amused. “That’s all I can say” just seems like a funny thing to say on an online site….

  202. Owen:
    Owen:
    “Have I had contact with Melo this year and other years?
    Yes. That’s all I can say.”
    Lol
    That’s all he can say folks….

    ?

    Just amused. “That’s all I can say” just seems like a funny thing to say on an online site….

    I have nothing to prove to anyone, if that’s what you’re getting at. For all I care you can think of me however you want. I’m not going to spend my time talking about how I know Melo. If you don’t think I know him, I’m perfectly fine with that, too.

  203. jon abbey:
    Denver has only scored 8 points in the last 9 minutes, lead down to 6 now.

    Faried is out. Half court stagnant and no identity.

  204. I said all along this team was VERY streaky, dating back to last season as soon as STAT came onboard…they go through horrid losing streaks and epic winning ones…I hope this is the start of a nice, long delicious winning romp…they have some very “winnable” games coming up….haha.

  205. Owen:
    “Have I had contact with Melo this year and other years?
    Yes. That’s all I can say.”

    Lol

    That’s all he can say folks….

    Least surprising comment of the night, besides Jon’s Shump love…lol

  206. Im not gonna lie, the mystery behind ruru and his relationship with Melo is fascinating :-)

  207. “I have nothing to prove to anyone, if that’s what you’re getting at. For all I care you can think of me however you want. I’m not going to spend my time talking about how I know Melo. If you don’t think I know him, I’m perfectly fine with that, too.”

    I am honestly surprised you would admit knowing him on this board. It doesn’t exactly advance your reputation as an objective observer of his play.

    Also, this is the last place where knowing a player would carry any weight in an argument.

  208. Frank O.: Least surprising comment of the night, besides Jon’s Shump love…lol

    Really Jon, what is the nature of your relationship with Shump? Lol

  209. I wish I had league pass this year. Decided to pass because it’s such a distraction, and my wife is not the NBA fan I am .

    Can’t believe I can’t watch Faried in action.

    Apparently Karl doesn’t believe he defends well enough, and there are some APM stats to prove it….

  210. “Really Jon, what is the nature of your relationship with Shump? Lol”

    Now that is funny…

  211. Owen:
    “I have nothing to prove to anyone, if that’s what you’re getting at. For all I care you can think of me however you want. I’m not going to spend my time talking about how I know Melo. If you don’t think I know him, I’m perfectly fine with that, too.”

    I am honestly surprised you would admit knowing him on this board. It doesn’t exactly advance your reputation as an objective observer of his play.

    Also, this is the last place where knowing a player would carry any weight in an argument.

    I’m not asking that it should. Someone asked me about it(not the first time) and I answered them. My arguments should be taken on their merits.

    IF you feel they’re bad arguments, defeat them. If you feel my insights aren’t valuable to the board discussion, then talk about other things.

  212. jock cowles: Fear not! I am not the despicable CJ. I’m a long-time reader, first-time poster who made his username based off the following post:

    Diggin’ it, JC!

  213. Owen:
    I wish I had league pass this year. Decided to pass because it’s such a distraction, and my wife is not the NBA fan I am .

    Can’t believe I can’t watch Faried in action.

    Apparently Karl doesn’t believe he defends well enough, and there are some APM stats to prove it….

    No way. It’s not logic. It’s Karl old-school philosophy.

  214. Well, to be honest, I think many on this site have questioned your objectivity before, so it’s really not surprising you have a personal relationship with him.

    What is is i really don’t care. It doesn’t matter either way.

    And dude, I totally understand what you are going through.

    I used to make blueberry pancakes for David Lee, I know what it’s like to be a total homer for an overrated player….

  215. I think one thing about super high-energy guys like Faried and Shumpert is the coach worries they’ll burn out if he gives them 30 minutes or more. that doesn’t explain Faried’s DNPs, though…

  216. Owen:
    “I have nothing to prove to anyone, if that’s what you’re getting at. For all I care you can think of me however you want. I’m not going to spend my time talking about how I know Melo. If you don’t think I know him, I’m perfectly fine with that, too.”

    I am honestly surprised you would admit knowing him on this board. It doesn’t exactly advance your reputation as an objective observer of his play.

    Also, this is the last place where knowing a player would carry any weight in an argument.

    Indeed, although if he’s working out in a gym 3 or 4 times a week it might make him more credible in some folks’ eyes. Lol

    Actually, I suspected there was something personal there and it made it in my mind less objective and, oddly, less concerning.
    But he knows ball and has made sound points outside the Melo-drama.
    It is what it is. It’s conversation.

  217. Ok, so for as bad as this season has been with regards to expectations. The Knicks are currently 4 games behind Philly with 2 games against them. So if you consider those two games to be must win we only have to be 2 games better than them the rest of the way. That’s not totally unrealistic is it?

  218. Denver holds on, thank you Kenneth Faried!

    2 1/2 games behind Boston now, 4 games behind Philly.

  219. Just picked up Faried for my fantasy team. This week added Klay Thompson and now Faried to round out my bench.

  220. Frank O.: Indeed, although if he’s working out in a gym 3 or 4 times a week it might make him more credible in some folks’ eyes. Lol

    HAHAHA

  221. jon abbey:
    I think one thing about super high-energy guys like Faried and Shumpert is the coach worries they’ll burn out if he gives them 30 minutes or more. that doesn’t explain Faried’s DNPs, though…

    Yeah, but make them prove they get tired. Never seen Faried play with low energy. Reality is that this is a long established pattern for GK in how he deals with rookies. Lawson lost a lot of minutes as a rookie to Anthony Carter. There’s a huge list behind him going back to Golden State days, even.

  222. Spree8nyk8:
    Ok, so for as bad as this season has been with regards to expectations.The Knicks are currently 4 games behind Philly with 2 games against them.So if you consider those two games to be must win we only have to be 2 games better than them the rest of the way.That’s not totally unrealistic is it?

    no, but there’s no margin for error. if they keep playing like this every game (or almost every game at least), they can do some damage.

  223. jon abbey:
    I don’t know how anyone can’t love the Shumpster, me:Shump=Owen:D-Lee.

    My thoughts exactly. I was about to pose the same question to Owen. Lol. But I know how much long distance relationships can hurt. ;)

  224. Lin said there hasn’t been a major shift in the team’s approach. The team looks to the post on offense a bit more, but that’s about the only difference.

    “I just think it’s we have all 15 guys right now on the same page buying in, and that’s the biggest thing, is that we’re playing together. I don’t think there’s any major changes philosophically from a coaching standpoint,” he said.

    Knicks forward Amare Stoudemire said the messenger matters.

    “Coach Woodson, he’s more of — he’s a player’s coach,” Stoudemire said. “It’s a matter of us as players playing hard for him and trying to get these wins.”

  225. Owen:
    Well, to be honest, I think many on this site have questioned your objectivity before, so it’s really not surprising you have a personal relationship with him.

    What is is i really don’t care. It doesn’t matter either way.

    And dude, I totally understand what you are going through.

    I used to make blueberry pancakes for David Lee, I know what it’s like to be a total homer for an overrated player….

    Blueberry. Excellent

  226. jon abbey: no, but there’s no margin for error. if they keep playing like this every game (or almost every game at least), they can do some damage.

    no doubt about that, but if you told me a few days ago that we still had a shot at the division I would have laughed.

    Question though, I know winning the division gives you at least a 4 seed, but how does it work if the 5 seed has the better record, who gets homecourt? I know when you automatically got a top 3 seed the better record still got homecourt, but when they changed it to only a top 4 seed did they also change it to the division winner automatically having homecourt?

  227. “Just picked up Faried for my fantasy team. This week added Klay Thompson and now Faried to round out my bench.”

    take a look at Nate Robinson. The Warriors have five games next week and he is getting serious minutes with Curry out and Ellis gone….

  228. Owen:
    Well, to be honest, I think many on this site have questioned your objectivity before, so it’s really not surprising you have a personal relationship with him.

    What is is i really don’t care. It doesn’t matter either way.

    And dude, I totally understand what you are going through.

    I used to make blueberry pancakes for David Lee, I know what’s its like to be a total homer for an overrated player….

    Haha. I will say this though, Melo knows what people think about him. He knows fans hate him right now, for the most part. The whole Denver deal is complicated and there are things he will talk about regarding dysfunction in the organization at some point in the future. Melo is much smarter than, I suppose, he sounds with his bad grammar….And he knows a great deal about what works in the NBA in terms of a defensive culture. That’s why, I believe, he’s embraced this change to the extent he has.

    And I think people underestimate the influence CAA has had in a lot of things Melo has done recently.

  229. ruruland:
    Lin said there hasn’t been a major shift in the team’s approach. The team looks to the post on offense a bit more, but that’s about the only difference.

    “I just think it’s we have all 15 guys right now on the same page buying in, and that’s the biggest thing, is that we’re playing together. I don’t think there’s any major changes philosophically from a coaching standpoint,” he said.

    Knicks forward Amare Stoudemire said the messenger matters.

    “Coach Woodson, he’s more of — he’s a player’s coach,” Stoudemire said. “It’s a matter of us as players playing hard for him and trying to get these wins.”

    check out Lin’s shot totals, though. it’s been 22 games since he emerged, and in the 19 under D’Antoni, he only had less than 11 once. his high is 10 in the 3 Woodson games, 21 total.

  230. It is just asinine to criticize Melo after tonight’s game. Anybody who does so would have crucified Earl Monroe after every game in 1973. Really, STFU!

  231. Owen:
    “Just picked up Faried for my fantasy team. This week added Klay Thompson and now Faried to round out my bench.”

    take a look at Nate Robinson. The Warriors have five games next week and he is getting serious minutes with Curry out and Ellis gone….

    He is picked up already. Im sitting pretty, in 1st with 2 weeks left in regular season and Im pretty assured of getting a bye (12 team league, 6 make playoffs, top 2 get byes). I just picked up Kyle Lowry hoping he returns by the time my playoffs start.

  232. jon abbey: check out Lin’s shot totals, though. it’s been 22 games since he emerged, and in the 19 under D’Antoni, he only had less than 11 once. his high is 10 in the 3 Woodson games, 21 total.

    He’s playing a smarter game in some regards. One of the things I’d like to see though is to move the ball more when the initial pick doesn’t work.

    he has a tendency to pass up the right pass and over-dribble into a bad situation.

  233. I am not criticizing Melo for his game tonight. He just didn’t play like a 20 million dollar man….

    I really needed New Mexico to beat Louisville for my only pool. The Lobos are gamers but they aren’t going to get it done.

  234. Spree8nyk8: no doubt about that, but if you told me a few days ago that we still had a shot at the division I would have laughed.

    Question though, I know winning the division gives you at least a 4 seed, but how does it work if the 5 seed has the better record, who gets homecourt?I know when you automatically got a top 3 seed the better record still got homecourt, but when they changed it to only a top 4 seed did they also change it to the division winner automatically having homecourt?

    The 5 seed will have homecourt advantage. Happened in 2007, Heat won their division and were the 4th seed but the 5th seeded Bulls had homecourt advantage and promptly swept the Heat.

  235. ruruland: Have I had contact with Melo this year and other years?

    Yes. That’s all I can say.

    Just as long as it was safe and consentual.

  236. BigBlueAL: The 5 seed will have homecourt advantage.Happened in 2007, Heat won their division and were the 4th seed but the 5th seeded Bulls had homecourt advantage and promptly swept the Heat.

    thanks man, had been wondering about that. I’m kinda feeling that if we can’t move up to 3rd we might be better off with the 6 seed. Avoid Miami as long as possible, maybe gain some momentum.

  237. Spree8nyk8: thanks man, had been wondering about that.I’m kinda feeling that if we can’t move up to 3rd we might be better off with the 6 seed.Avoid Miami as long as possible, maybe gain some momentum.

    Miami is the #2 seed right now and I wouldnt be surprised if thats where they end up. Last season the Bulls were the #1 seed and the Heat were the #2 seed and thats the way it is right now and most likely will be when the season ends.

  238. Carmelo Anthony was asked about Pacers forward Danny Granger calling this home-and-home “Two winnable games.” After the Knicks swept both, Anthony said, “It’s good. I hear them. It’s motivating for me, for the team. A couple of guys were talking about it in the locker room. I guess it was two winnable games – for us. We’ll take that.”

  239. @424

    What’s your connection to Carmelo Anthony, CAA and to NBA franchises in general? Have you been paid by employees or organizations affiliated with the NBA and its players? This is turning into a Deepthroat Conspiracy and your rooting interests are at issue when you surround them with these veiled espionage and anonymity references. What gives ruru? We gonna make out or what?

  240. BigBlueAL: Miami is the #2 seed right now and I wouldnt be surprised if thats where they end up.Last season the Bulls were the #1 seed and the Heat were the #2 seed and thats the way it is right now and most likely will be when the season ends.

    Damn i’m dumb, good point man.

  241. drewbreez:
    @424

    What’s your connection to Carmelo Anthony, CAA and to NBA franchises in general? Have you been paid by employees or organizations affiliated with the NBA and its players? This is turning into a Deepthroat Conspiracy and your rooting interests are at issue when you surround them with these veiled espionage and anonymity references. What gives ruru? We gonna make out or what?

    A quick google search reveals no professional connection. He’s a super fan who followed his favorite player to NY. No harm in that, I guess. (although, I thought I loved Marcus Camby as much as a hetero sexual 30-year old could love an athlete, but it certainly didn’t make me a Nuggets fan when he left. Just saying.)

  242. Z: A quick google search reveals no professional connection. He’s a super fan who followed his favorite player to NY. No harm in that, I guess. (although, I thought I loved Marcus Camby as much as a hetero sexual 30-year old could love an athlete, but it certainly didn’t make me a Nuggets fan when he left. Just saying.)

    You loved Camby more than Anthony Bonner?? lol

  243. Z: A quick google search reveals no professional connection. He’s a super fan who followed his favorite player to NY. No harm in that, I guess. (although, I thought I loved Marcus Camby as much as a hetero sexual 30-year old could love an athlete, but it certainly didn’t make me a Nuggets fan when he left. Just saying.)

    Google search, eh? It’s true, I have no direct “proffesional” relationship.

  244. “D’Antoni wanted to win his way,” a guy who knows Carmelo pretty well said to me this week. “People think the same thing about Carmelo, but do you really think he came here wanting to lose? He just wants to win.”

  245. Be honest, ruruland… are you in Carmelo Anthony’s entourage serving as his forum/blog guy?

  246. dogrufus: Be honest, ruruland… are you in Carmelo Anthony’s entourage serving as his forum/blog guy?

    I wouldn’t put it in those terms. Do you know who Jeff Ruland is?

  247. ruruland, I’ll apologize on the behalf of the other commentors for the internet being a scary, scary place where nothing is secret. Nothing is safe.

    Help me, Gandalf. Help me.

  248. Robtachi: ruruland, I’ll apologize on the behalf of the other commentors for the internet being a scary, scary place where nothing is secret. Nothing is safe.Help me, Gandalf. Help me.

    I have no worries about that. If people connect the dots then they connect dots, it would be virtually impossible though. It’s really not that big of a deal. It’s not like I’m influencing any of the people we talk about in any way. In a lot of ways I just lucked into a situation about 9 years ago that’s allowed me to have an ear from time to time about some stuff. Their are a lot of people like that, and yes, some of them postt, too. Three members of the Nuggets front office used to post on a Nuggets board back in the day (during the Iverson trade).

    They used to hint at stuff and try to influence the dialogue. You’d be surprised at some of the prominent people who read boards. It’s their customers,

  249. 2FOR18: props. If he’s not getting paid for this, then at least I hope melo’s springing for some lap dances, or else this is just sad.

    haha…. Trust me, it will pay dividends down the road. But no, I’m not “on staff.”

  250. I really really really doubt anyone from the Knicks front office has been reading this board in the last seven years…..

    They certainly haven’t been internalizing anything that’s been said here…

    If you are reading, Knicks front office, please please tell Jim Dolan he is a moron.

  251. ruruland: haha…. Trust me, it will pay dividends down the road. But no, I’m not “on staff.”

    Can you do us a favor and ask him to cut back on the Henny and hit the treadmill? Pretty please! We want the Melo who could jump higher than me!

  252. love this Lin quote!!!

    “We kinda wore ‘em out with their depth. You saw the plus-minuses of the bench. When they come in, they’re kind of flyin’ around, and that takes a lot out of the team,” said Jeremy Lin.

    You saw the plus-minuses of the bench! love that…

  253. 2FOR18: Can you do us a favor and ask him to cut back on the Henny and hit the treadmill? Pretty please! We want the Melo who could jump higher than me!

    He’s got a great staff around him and works harder then people would imagine. He is a little heavy right now and has battled his weight before. Doesn’t have the metabolism of guys who can eat whatever and maintain that 5 percent….

    Some of it was staying off his feet those two weeks. But he’ll be back. None of this is new. Like I’ve said before, ’05 and ’08 were just like this….if he doesn’t explode at some point in the next few weeks I’d be shocked…

  254. ruruland: I wouldn’t put it in those terms. Do you know who Jeff Ruland is?

    You related to Jeff Ruland??

    Name sounded familiar so I googled him (dont worry I didnt google you like some others here have done, Im not that obsessed lol) and saw that he was a former NBA Center (pretty good too) and was head coach at Iona which is where I remember him from since he got them to the tourney a few times last decade.

  255. I dont think Melo is out of shape, right now he just cant shoot. All his baskets now are basically layups. He is running the floor alot and looking fast doing so and he seems to be getting to the basket alot more than he did while he was playing injured. He just cant make any jumpers to save his life right now.

  256. BigBlueAL: You related to Jeff Ruland??Name sounded familiar so I googled him (dont worry I didnt google you like some others here have done, Im not that obsessed lol) and saw that he was a former NBA Center (pretty good too) and was head coach at Iona which is where I remember him from since he got them to the tourney a few times last decade.

    Out of respect for the situation (my situation), I really shouldn’t go much farther than that….but I think you can get a basic idea for that and the fact that family long-time Nuggets season ticket holders. You should be able to do the math from there if you’re still curious.

  257. BigBlueAL: I dont think Melo is out of shape, right now he just cant shoot. All his baskets now are basically layups. He is running the floor alot and looking fast doing so and he seems to be getting to the basket alot more than he did while he was playing injured. He just cant make any jumpers to save his life right now.

    He really can’t. His first step quickness is there, which is a great sign. But he’s had more pop in his legs. A lot of his explosiveness isn;t so much above the rim, though he’s had some remarkeable dunks in his career, but that hanging jump where he uses his strength against contact. I haven’t seen much of that. He’s a two-foot jumper.

    But he really just can’t shoot a lick right now .

  258. ruruland: Out of respect for the situation (my situation), I really shouldn’t go much farther than that….but I think you can get a basic idea for that andthe fact that family long-time Nuggets season ticket holders. You should be able to do the math from there if you’re still curious.

    Thats cool. If he is your dad/uncle/whatever mad props to him, I didnt see him play because I was still too young to remember him but it sure looks like he was a helluva player. Also like I said I remember him coaching Iona and getting them to the tourney a few times was a great accomplishment.

  259. BigBlueAL: Thats cool. If he is your dad/uncle/whatever mad props to him, I didnt see him play because I was still too young to remember him but it sure looks like he was a helluva player. Also like I said I remember him coaching Iona and getting them to the tourney a few times was a great accomplishment.

    Yeah, he was, and thanks. could pull down 10 boards tommorow if he wanted.

  260. I’ve always wondered if Melo, like Amar’e, was out of shape since coming back from the lockout. Since he wears protective padding around his torso, it always (falsely) looks like he has huge love handles hehe. I couldn’t conclude whether his inconsistent defensive energy was due to lack of effort or poor conditioning, but certainly I’ve seen him play intense defense. Like when he’s gone up against LBJ, he plays 100% on both ends of the floor.

  261. jon abbey:
    love this Lin quote!!!

    “We kinda wore ‘em out with their depth. You saw the plus-minuses of the bench. When they come in, they’re kind of flyin’ around, and that takes a lot out of the team,” said Jeremy Lin.

    You saw the plus-minuses of the bench! love that…

    lol, what a stat nerd.

    Frank O.:
    Lin does that rainmaker shot inside the paint. I don’t recall another player so routinely doing that.

    I’ve seen videos of Derrick Rose working out, practicing midrange shots and doing layups while trainers bump him in midair with cushions. I imagine that (but of course have no idea) that Lin practices that high-arc, in the paint teardrop a lot.

    We’ve seen Lin make this move so many times: beating the defender off the dribble or coming off a screen so that the defender has to overcommit to keep up, slamming hard on the breaks in the paint so the defender runs past him, and then taking that teardrop shot. He doesn’t elevate much on that shot, but the defender cannot recover in time to really obstruct him, and the shot is high arc.

    Rose’s midrange game is amazing. That running, high arc shot he does that is released at the high point of the jump with one arm looks so difficult yet it often goes in; he must practice that shot like crazy.

  262. < Like when he’s gone up against LBJ, he plays 100% on both ends of the floor.

    Right. The mystery of why he can’t consistently deliver those kind of efforts is a long confounding one. Some of it is the grappling and offensive burden, but he’s never conditioned himself like a Kobe consistently.

    That’s not to say he hasn’t had long stretches, like the one he’s about to go on, where he’s been the full effort two way player.

    When he did it in the WCF season, and outworked Kobe (defending him in the second half of the first four games, and muscling him on offense), and then was absolutely dominant on both ends the first 20 or so games of ’09 ’10, everyone thought he turned the corner.

    Then he got injured and worn down, had to carry extra burden on offense down the stretch, and lost some of it defensively. Last year was a down year effort-wise in Denver and it carried over into New York, never was in top shape ( had some great two games down the stretch though)…..

    He’s just now getting back to where he was two years ago. He may never be worth 20 per, but when his offense comes back with this defense, it will mean playoff wins and you’ll understand my perspective on things, and why Denver wanted to give him two max deals and build their team around him. When he gets that groove back he can absolutely go toe-to-toe with Lebron.

  263. Robert Silverman:
    I’ve been meaning to tell you guys…I’m actually James Dolan. Hope we can all still get along

    I’m convinced that one of the virulently anti-Melo posters is D’Antoni. I’m just not sure which one.

  264. Robert Silverman:
    I’ve been meaning to tell you guys…I’m actually James Dolan. Hope we can all still get along

    Oh, the mysteries within mysteries. Your avatar showing the name “Lin” also has more than meets the eye. The surname “lin” means “woods” (or, forest) in Chinese. Since, Lin = Woods, therefore Woodsanity can be derived from Linsanity. No way! FOH

  265. I’m curious about Woodson. When he was in Atlanta I could never figure out how “good” of a coach he was (whatever that actually means). His teams were boring, iso-heavy, but still decent. I still can’t get a read on him. Supposedly he’s a defensive specialist. Is there any evidence for that?

    I do like his toughness on the sideline though; definitely a change from D’Antoni.

  266. If he’s a defensive specialist, you wouldn’t know it from his years in Atlanta (as they were never good defensively). I’d say that the best description of Woodson is “tough but still a player’s coach.”

    You know, his best skill is still his ability to communicate with the players (something they pretty much all said was not happening under D’Antoni) but also willing to be tough with them if need be.

    He’s also a really smart guy, so he’ll adapt to what he thinks needs to be done. Note how he has pretty much kept D’Antoni’s system in place while some were guessing he might adapt to the “Iso-Joe” offense he ran in Atlanta revolving around Joe Johnson. In fact, I now think that “adaptive” is the best way to describe him. When he worked for Larry Brown, he adapted to Larry Brown’s defensive approach. When he coaches these guys, he’s adapted to D’Antoni’s offensive approach.

    At the end of the day, I’d prefer a guy who has his own system (like a Sloan, a Jackson, a Vun Gundy, etc.) but Woodson is clearly a capable guy and I’ll admit that I did not give him enough credit for his ability to adapt, so while I was initially quite worried about him as a coach, I can see that I was way offbase. He’d be a fine consolation prize if the Knicks can’t bring in any of the big coaching guns this offseason.

Comments are closed.