2012 Game Thread: New York @ Boston

They never make it easy do they? With an 8-14 record–2 and 10 in the last 12–New York needs a win in the worst way. So naturally, they have to go to Boston to play the hated Celtics the day after dropping a tough game against the conference leading Chicago Bulls. My esteemed colleague Jim Cavan might liken this to a Dickens novel. But the problem with that is that in a Dickens novel things do tend to get better.

No, things don’t seem to get better for we fans of the Knicks. We are trapped in a place that isn’t quite good enough. Always waiting for things to get better. Stuck in sad, chaotic world without meaning. Yep, being a fan of these Knicks is like a Peanuts strip without the final panel to make everything right.

I’d like to believe that our team will roll into Boston, play with exceptional competence and efficiency. I’d like to think Shumpert will keep Rajon Rondo out of the lane. I’d like to think Fields won’t lose Ray Allen allowing him to release the most effortlessly beautiful jump shot I’ve ever seen. I’d like to think Amare will beat Garnet to the critical 4th quarter rebound. I’d like to think Paul Pierce won’t wrench my heart out yet again with 3.1 seconds left to play. I’d like to think Charlie Brown will kick the football this time.

Every Knicks fan should read 3eanuts. We’d all immediately relate. And while many people think the missing 4th panel leaves the characters stuck without a happy ending, I like to think that the missing 4th panel can be a good thing. Think about it, with the 4th panel gone we don’t see Lucy pull that ball away from Charlie Brown. And when that ending isn’t written for us, we have the chance to dream of the ending that we have always craved. Maybe we aren’t trapped in a sad, chaotic world after all. Maybe that blank 4th panel frees us to create the ending we want.

So what’s my point? The point is that our team is free to create the ending it wants. The outcome is not set in stone. They can kick that football before Paul Pierce (dressed as Lucy) pulls it away. And tonight, I hope they will.

Go New York. Go New York Go.

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Thomas B.

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453 thoughts to “2012 Game Thread: New York @ Boston”

  1. nice write-up. maybe you can write a book about the knicks (in this way) about this season. win or lose it should sell. hopefully a win.

  2. tenebrous:
    nice write-up. maybe you can write a book about the knicks (in this way) about this season. win or lose it should sell. hopefully a win.

    Thanks. Yes, year after year I hope for a happy ending.

  3. Thomas, that write up could not have captured any better my sentiments. I was just about to write that I just was not sure that I could take watching another loss. Another gut wrenching, heart breaking Knicks’ loss. This season has actually been the nadir in a decade of rooting for the worst team with the most loathsome owner in sports because there was hope and expectations. I am exasperated… but I will watch and subject myself to this inexplicable curse of a team yet again. My patience has thinned and my nerves are frayed. I am scared.

  4. This year the nadir? It’s bad. But I think 07-08 was worse. Here, there is at least a hint of a plausible exit strategy. Trade Melo, trade Amare. Back then it was clear we were going to be bad for three years minimum…

    Also, very nice write-up…

  5. That write puts a lot of pressure on the comments to live up to. They ate moving the ball a lot so far. Stat off to a nice start: jumper, feed to Chandler and a drive.

  6. Nadir because there were expectations that we were going to be really good. 07-08 there were no illusions from my perspective.

    I actually feel like we’d be better with Crawford, Randolph, Lee and Gallinari sometimes. I truly do.

    I’m really down about it tonight if you can’t tell and I’m usually the Frank-esque optimist.

  7. Yeah, no way is this more painful than those teams that had no future. You couldn’t even root too much for Lee, since we knew that Lee would not even be around for the next good team.

  8. How the fuck are the Knicks losing right now?? Gonna be one of those games.

    Also LOL at Jeremy Lin.

  9. Missed Landry layup
    Missed TC FTs
    Bad out of bounds call Pietrus 3

    7 points off the board for the Knicks.

    Killer

  10. guys we gotta get TD back in there for real the Lin tragedy is in full swing. Lets just develop what we already started. TD is our 6th man. wtf

  11. Lin brought it up and had his pocket picked by Bradley now Melo has brought it up these last two possessions. Coincidence? Real question fyi. Cheezy call on the “got a foul to give” play puts Pierce on the line for three. Groan.

  12. That last play just shows you how you can’t judge these guys too harshly. Pavlovic is a vet and he made a ridiculously dumb play. It happens. You can’t overreact on small samples.

  13. “You can’t overreact on small samples.”

    You mean like calling for players to get extra playing time based on what they have done during a couple of garbage time appearances??

  14. You mean like calling for players to get extra playing time based on what they have done during a couple of garbage time appearances??

    Exactly. Take their totals and look at how they’ve done overall. And overall, Lin has done well. Well, less shitty than TD, at least.

  15. he’s a little overexcitable but haven’t seen TD get into the lane like that all year. Literally. Our bar is set soooooo low.

  16. I get the call for Lin to play at the expense of TD because of how bad TD has played. Not sure about being that excited to see Lin play because of what I have seen during his few garbage time minutes though.

    Its actually pretty sad that it has come down to Jeremy Lin getting meaningful minutes out of desperation lol

  17. Give Lin a chance to get into the flow. He is definitely high energy. Besides TD probably needs the rest because of his shoulder

  18. This is the most fun its been to watch the Knicks since December. I dont get the pessimism – team has looked much, much better for last 10 quarters now.

  19. If only Lin could shoot. He’s getting by guys who are giving him 22 footers. In That last possession (24 second violation), Lin turned down two open Js to drive.

  20. Doug:
    Lin fighting for the rebound!

    That was a nice play that gave them a possession but won’t make a box score.

  21. Watching the TNT guys trash the Knicks last night and then tonight Van Gundy struggling to say anything positive (even when we’re winning!) we Knicks fans might as well just kill ourselves

  22. Caleb:
    this is one of the head-slappingest stretches I’ve seen in a long time.

    I sounded that way on the (celtics) radio. Thanks for the confirmation :)

  23. d-mar:
    Watching the TNT guys trash the Knicks last night and then tonight Van Gundy struggling to say anything positive (even when we’re winning!) we Knicks fans might as well just kill ourselves

    My favorite was when JVG said our guards were incapable of making good plays, then Lin dances through the lane and dishes to Amare.

  24. d-mar:
    Watching the TNT guys trash the Knicks last night and then tonight Van Gundy struggling to say anything positive (even when we’re winning!) we Knicks fans might as well just kill ourselves

    Van Gundy has defended D’Antoni tonight.

  25. BigBlueAL: Van Gundy has defended D’Antoni tonight.

    JVG shills on behalf of coaches in every single broadcast he does. You will never hear him criticize a coach. That’s his thing.

  26. BigBlueAL: Van Gundy has defended D’Antoni tonight.

    You’re right, I just get a kick out of how when the Knicks score (last night and tonight) there’s silence and when the opponent scores, it’s time to gush about Rose or the Celtics playmaking ability.

  27. Robert Silverman:
    You know who this team really misses…Jorts. A stretch 4/5 would really help the unit that’s currently on the floor

    yeah- we could use jorts, baron, and jr smith

  28. That was a beautiful pass from Lin, great anticipation. But he forgot he was giving it to Shumpert for a 3..

  29. Amare really looks better again tonight. Thats the biggest difference last 3 games. He’s finally shown up. 5 boards. Overall in control. win or lose this one, knicks have a decent stretch ahead of them. If they play this way, they could easily win 6 of next 8. Jazz on Monday should be a good test.

  30. Billy Walker just plain sucks. I would rather see the corpse of Bibby in there instead of him.

  31. @64, it is funny how much better everyone looks when the ball moves and does not get stuck in Melo’s hands too much. Well except for Billy Walker, he sucks less when the ball never gets to him.

  32. Amare makes a beautiful pass to Chandler underneath, Knicks go up by 8, Van Gundy is talking about….Kyrie Irving. Ok, I’ll stop.

  33. This is the best they’ve looked all season. I guess they really just need four guys to play well (Melo, Amar’e, Fields and Tyson – Tyson is a given, though) and the other guys just not be turrrble.

  34. Hey I can only hear this ESPN broadcast… Tv screen seems to be broken. Are the Celtics winning by 50 because that’s how it sounds listening to Van Gundy.

  35. Melo is not the problem. Why does this board give Amare a free pass all the time? he’s been terrible all year until the last 3 games. he’s clearly played worse than Melo. The PG situation is unfortunate, but if Amare can just show up, the 8th spot wont be a problem.

  36. Shump is so careless with the ball.

    But then he gets his hands on so many balls defensively.

  37. Brian Cronin:
    This is the best they’ve looked all season. I guess they really just need four guys to play well (Melo, Amar’e, Fields and Tyson – Tyson is a given, though) and the other guys just not be turrrble.

    Got some decent minutes from Lin. If the PG position is something better than a black hole of suck this can be a good team.

  38. Great idea by Shumpert but poor awareness of who he is throwing to, Jefferies, who can’t even catch it. Next time down Tyson shows him how to do it underneath.

  39. Got some decent minutes from Lin. If the PG position is something better than a black hole of suck this can be a good team.

    Exactly, so long as they’re not awful, they top four can carry them it seems.

  40. Tv back on. Refs screwing us over for the second night in a row…. Ball don’t lie.

  41. Celtics shoot 7 of 13 from 3 and Knicks up 6 on the road. Best half of basketball they played all year.

  42. d-mar:
    Amare makes a beautiful pass to Chandler underneath, Knicks go up by 8, Van Gundy is talking about….Kyrie Irving. Ok, I’ll stop.

    I did kinda need closure on that anecdote.

  43. Up six at the half. Not bad. If they could close out the quarters better it would be 20 or so it seems

  44. Robert Silverman:
    I’ll ask again, why was Amar’e not playing the last 6 mins?

    MDA takes Amare out for the last few mins of 2nd quarters as part of rotation now. Normal. Assume it was extended bc of back to back to back

  45. The over-switching has slowed down the last few games. Guys are showing and falling back more, and are also knowing when to trap. Whether it’s coaching or just practice, who knows. If they tighten it up even more they won’t be giving up those 3’s. Hope they keep it up.

  46. The over-switching has slowed down the last few games. Guys are showing and falling back more, and are also knowing when to trap. Whether it’s coaching or just practice, who knows. If they tighten it up even more they won’t be giving up those 3?s. Hope they keep it up.

    Nice observation. But yeah, Shump needs to get past those screens.

  47. I fear this is gonna be one of those games Knicks lose and we look back and say they lost this game in the 1st half when they shouldve had a much bigger lead at half-time than they have.

  48. BigBlueAL:
    I fear this is gonna be one of those games Knicks lose and we look back and say they lost this game in the 1st half when they should’ve had a much bigger lead at half-time than they have.

    Ah, so you’ve seen this bit of theater before…

  49. Tony Pena: He’s not. Interviews are why people here were calling Melo “dumb”.

    People who call Melo dumb have absolutely no idea about the kind of business sense the guy has for a 27 yo.

    He’s a BMore kid who talks like a Bmore kid.

  50. cgreene: MDA takes Amare out for the last few mins of 2nd quarters as part of rotation now.Normal.Assume it was extended bc of back to back to back

    Danke. Was worried he re-injured his spleen or something

  51. Robert Silverman: Ah, so you’ve seen this bit of theater before…

    3rd quarter will be huge, if we lay our usual egg and get down by 5 or 6, it’s over. Please, no moral victories tonight!

  52. BigBlueAL:
    I fear this is gonna be one of those games Knicks lose and we look back and say they lost this game in the 1st half when they shouldve had a much bigger lead at half-time than they have.

    This is getting old. Last night the season was over. Tonight the game is over with a halftime lead.

    Am I the only one who can see positive trajectory here?

  53. ruruland: This is getting old. Last night the season was over. Tonight the game is over with a halftime lead.

    Am I the only one who can see positive trajectory here?

    I’d sign on to whoever said this has been their best ten quarters in a row. But the last decade has left us shell-shocked waiting for the other shoe to drop.

  54. ruruland: This is getting old. Last night the season was over. Tonight the game is over with a halftime lead.

    Am I the only one who can see positive trajectory here?

    Didn’t you say you recently became a Knicks fan after rooting for Denver for several year. Wait a while. You’ll understand the pessimism.

  55. cgreene: Didn’t you say you recently became a Knicks fan after rooting for Denver for several year.Wait a while.You’ll understand the pessimism.

    Still fan of both. But can’t handle either fan base, honestly.

  56. This is why I LOVE Tyson Chandler – 2 straight times on offense he gets us extra possessions.

  57. cgreene: Didn’t you say you recently became a Knicks fan after rooting for Denver for several year.Wait a while.You’ll understand the pessimism.

    I’ve suffered much long and much worse as a Denver fan.

  58. Why do you get to throw the ball off a player as you fall out of bounds? That should not count as a change of possession. That should be a foul. When else can you throw the ball at someone and get away with it?

    I’d really like to see the rule change to mirror how a player cannot call timeout while falling out of bounds. It is basically the same thing: A move performed to save a possession as the player falls out of bounds.

  59. Stupid Jefferies. Melo waits for Fields to cut into the paint. Does it but jefferies gets called for three seconds

  60. Brian Cronin:
    The offense, not so much.

    Douglas, Jeffries, Chandler at the same time would make it almost impossible for any non-Wade/Lebron offense to succeed.

    AS JVG said, what else do you want? The Melo isolation gets you the best shot, or the best chance at a shot depending on how the defense plays it.

  61. i think dantoni was impressed with TD’s improvement in the first half over his play in the bulls game… no turnovers- didn’t get beat defensively so he’s giving him more minutes this half.

    they need to send Douglas to the d league so dantoni cant give him minutes.

  62. Why do you get to throw the ball off a player as you fall out of bounds? That should not count as a change of possession. That should be a foul. When else can you throw the ball at someone and get away with it?

    It really is weird. Like when you can just chuck a ball at a dude’s head and it’s totally allowed if it goes out of bounds.

  63. Thomas B.:
    Why do you get to throw the ball off a player as you fall out of bounds?That should not count as a change of possession. That should be a foul. When else can you throw the ball at someone and get away with it?

    The very first time I played basketball, around the age of nine, someone did that to me. I thought it was the very definition of unfair. I thought he was lying when he swore that was the rule. I decided that I hated basketball, and really didn’t pay much attention to it until I was like 14 or so.

  64. I got the feeling that we have a chippy, nasty, damn near dirty 4th quarter coming up. There could be a fight.

  65. Frank O.:
    Why no Lin in this half?

    Because he doesn’t have a contract for next year and D’Antoni doesn’t think he’s better than Douglas (even though he clearly is.)

  66. Horrible finish to the quarter, seems like we were up 10 a minute ago. Prepare for a deflating loss (sorry, I’m a Knick fan)

  67. 3 panels down. So like I said in the write-up: “They can kick that football before Paul Pierce (dressed as Lucy) pulls it away.”

    Let’s see if they can do it.

  68. It was just a little annoying seeing the offense being initiated from between the arc and halfcourt.

  69. Seriously, did you see TD flinch when they threatened trap?
    He has no confidence in his ball handling. Lin seems fearless and created problems when he penetrated. With TD at point, they have no fear of guard penetration

  70. Now the Knicks get a deflection!
    And skillet hands hits a reverse layup.

    What is the world coming to?

  71. I really want to defend D’Antoni, especially since I’d hate to give him up half a year before Nash hits free agency, but he’s really making it hard by putting out a lineup like this at such a critical juncture of the game.

  72. TD back up his dribble to mid court dribble off pick to 26 feet, picks up the ball and tosses a pass cross court.
    Wtf is wrong with this dude. MIKE GET HIM OFF THE FRIGGIN’ FLOOR

  73. man Douglas sucks by hitting bricks out there.. maybe they should bring back Lin at this point.

  74. I’m not predicting anything about the last 8 minutes tonight but the Knicks have been solid tonight, were mostly solid last night and played really well in Detroit. I’d say this is the strongest stretch all year, which shows what a pitiful year it’s been but maybe is a little sign of hope. If they play as well as they have the last 2 nights they will win more than half their games.

  75. Maybe Douglas has some compromising photos of D’Antoni? That’s the only explanation I can come up with.

  76. TD and Walker on the court drives the collective basketball IQ of the 10 guys out there to double digits

  77. Melo is 27 years old. We need to win tonight. Play him. Pierce has already played 33 minutes. Don’t over manage. Play to win tonight. Worry about tomorrow tomorrow.

  78. TD may have just lost his last fan. what do we have to do for this guy, all the trust in the world was just given to you. it aint over but you gotta hit a shot and buy me breakfast kid.

  79. Melo is 27 years old. We need to win tonight. Play him. Pierce has already played 33 minutes. Don’t over manage. Play to win tonight. Worry about tomorrow tomorrow.

    Absolutely agreed. They might blow Jersey out. They might get blown out. Get this win now.

  80. OK, two much-needed subs – and TD still out there. Eventually he has to get hot, right? Toaster revival?

  81. Celtics get every loose ball and make every hustle play. We’re not good, not tough and not smart.

  82. i know for some (stupid) reason the knicks picked up TD’s option but think about the versatility the of the roster if he was cut and there was an open space. The knicks could entertain 2 for 1 trades, consider d leaguers, or let the free agents in china know there is a place for them. i think that flexibility is too valuable to pass up.

  83. Frank O.:
    What has happened to ball movement?

    We have 3 players on the floor that don’t make the defense move — no matter how much they move.

  84. Anyone else read this on ESPN NY: “Which point guard hurt the Knicks more on Thursday night: Derrick Rose or Toney Douglas?”

    the offense hasn’t been the same since douglas came in. passing and movement basically stopped

  85. Call me crazy but I want to see Jeremy Lin back in.

    I could see D’Antoni reasonably wanting to wait to see more from him before playing him in the 4th quarter of a close game. He should have gotten some 3rd quarter minutes, though.

  86. knicks played a very good 2 1/2 quarters, but now it’s clear who wants to win this game more.

  87. They don’t worry about TD penetrating or shooting from outside, and his passing sucks.
    He’s a short jared jeffries

  88. Don’t get me wrong, they Knicks are playing like crap right now (Shump is not a point, but whaddayagonna do?) but the refs are doing a really bad job.

  89. Brian Cronin: I could see D’Antoni reasonably wanting to wait to see more from him before playing him in the 4th quarter of a close game. He should have gotten some 3rd quarter minutes, though.

    Not breaking any news here but the offense has gone to !@#$%^&*.

    Neither Shumpert nor Douglas can play the point, at all.

    Not much to lose…

  90. Never mind. 30 seconds, a botched call, a ray allen 3, a d’antoni technical… I only had to watch to know the details, not the outcome they would point towards.

  91. Why is Lin on the bench?
    Why aren’t they swinging the ball?
    Why is Anthony dribbling 10 seconds of the shot clock?
    Why hasn’t amare or chandler gotten the ball in the paint?

  92. I’d really love to hear how Toney was not good enough to get any first half minutes but he was okay to play big minutes at the end of the 3rd/beginning of the 4th in a close game.

  93. d-mar:
    Not to be over dramatic, but if we don’t score next possession, game over.

    Not to be over dramatic, but the game ended on that Allen three.

  94. I’m utterly disgusted. Can’t decide if the disgust is more directed at D’Antoni or the refs. Pretty sure the right answer is “yes”

  95. its games like this that make you wonder if Tim Donaghy worked alone. that had to be an and 1 for changler

  96. BigBlueAL:
    Whoever Fields is covering is scoring at will.

    It’s not like they’re shooting layups. They’re hitting tough, contested shots.

    The Celts only have 90 at the 2 minute mark. That’s good D.

  97. Still a lot of time but who cares. We’re bad. I don’t see that fact changing anytime real soon.

  98. Um what is going on here? A good play on offense, then a good play on defense to cut it to one. Huh?

  99. So many good signs tonight and last few games. Shump’s poise. Fields solid. Seriously ANY bench at all and this would be a good team. Bench tonight 3-13 from field, last night 2-13. This is not MDA’s fault.

  100. Great play Fields!!! Good comeback after getting scored on a couple of consecutive possessions.

  101. pretty much looks like just about every other knicks-celtics game of the last 1.5 years in which knicks couldn’t pull it out somehow…would be nice to finally get over the s(hump) here, but I fear tremendously!

  102. Man i hate Pierce! I hope his shot does not count and they lose this game.. Karma could be a bitch!

  103. If TD wouldve missed that 3pter this board would be going nuts.

    Because he shouldn’t be playing. If a guy who should be in there bricks an open look, what can you do?

  104. I like the long replay process. That way we get to see Pierce strut around like an ass for a full ten minutes.

  105. BigBlueAL:
    If TD wouldve missed that 3pter this board would be going nuts.

    Yeah because that would have been his 9th miss! Of the quarter!!

  106. So this exact scenario is what everyone points to for why Melo is a superstar. I mean, those people are clearly wrong, and that’s a lot of pressure to put on one play but…would love to see it happen here.

  107. For some reason I thought Fields was gonna make it.

    Still loved that play by Shump. Pierce was feeling good, backing down the rook, and Shump owned him.

  108. With Chandler fouled out, I think you need to take a three here. No way we win this in OT without him.

  109. ruruland:
    You wonder why Melp plays hero ball?

    Dude, you have to play together. Those shots will never fall if he doesn’t believe in his guys.

  110. Can’t fault Melo…he’s making good passes out of the double team. Somebody has to make an open shot.

  111. Remember that time that Al Harrington threw the ball away with the Knicks down one at the end of the game?

    That ending was worse than this one. But well…yeah.

  112. Instead of getting the doors blown off, now we play well enough to just lose. Progress, I suppose.

  113. maybe now we can start to give Melo some credit. He did everything possible. Created two open 3s in the last minute. Passed the ball, like everyone here demands. Really, he cant do any more than he is doing – every other superstar besides Lebron would be in the same situation on the Knicks.

  114. Frank O.: Dude, you have to play together. Those shots will never fall if he doesn’t believe in his guys.

    You have to be kidding me!!!!!!!!

    There is such a thing as bad shooters.

  115. How does a guy who hasn’t played the entire game end up with the ball to tie the game? Somebody please help me out here

  116. Frank O.:
    They did draw a play for Melo. They couldn’t break a guy loose

    No they didn’t. He was clearly the 3rd or fourth inbound option.

  117. Then they switch to the Denver game and they rave that Eenver is 33-14 since the Melo trade, the third best record in the NBA during that time.

  118. Frank O.:
    I fear Mike won’t last the weekend

    That would be unfortunate because this team is finally starting to play at a much higher level. It’s clear that the lack of supporting cast/depth is what’s holding us back and we’ll still have enough to beat half the league with the effort and execution we gave tonight and the night before. I think that’s a testament to the coaching. They looking much quicker, sharper and comfortable with each other. Starting from scratch now will do no one any good.

  119. so much better play by our handful of actual players the last two games, it’s going to be a real shame when we have Baron and Smith at guards and still miss the playoffs because of losing all these games early.

  120. Seriously though, this is the best D’Antoni can do? A three for a guy who’s been on the bench all night? Hjdjjeowlanafialsndbicoznbwotkdh1!!!!!!!1111!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  121. How does a guy who hasn’t played the entire game end up with the ball to tie the game? Somebody please help me out here

    I really don’t know who that play was designed for. Who didn’t get open?

  122. Man, that hurt. Was Melo the inbounder on that last play? Don’t think I understand what happened. I’m literally in pain.

  123. I’m starting to side with ruruland. If I’m Melo, I’m starting to think that no one on this team can make an open shot in the 4th quarter and I better take it upon myself….I’d be reasonably justified.

  124. Brian Cronin: It comes down to whether improved play was enough or if they had to get wins here or yesterday.

    Incredibly stupid and short-sighted to fire him given the huge improvements offensively the last week.

  125. The play was clearly for Novak for some reason. I thought he was going to be the distraction but when I watched it again the main play was Shumpert to screen Novak at the paint (which didn’t work). So Shump ran up the middle and unfortunately enough, blocked the passing lane to Melo. Still, that was a pretty horrid play.

  126. Knickerblogger favorites Shump and Fields miss the 2 biggest shots of the game and hardly a peep here about those plays. Shouldnt have come down to that final play of the game.

  127. The last two games are best the knicks have played this season. Melo is playing more in the flow and the knicks were in the game till the last play against an elite team, and a tough team to beat at home.
    They let this one get away. Still, they played well and must now learn how to win. This game could have been a turning point . . . but they’re the knicks.

  128. ruruland: Incredibly stupid and short-sighted to fire him given the huge improvements offensively the last week.

    I wouldn’t put it past the stupidity of Dolan and most Knicks fans I know.

  129. cgreene:
    Man, that hurt.Was Melo the inbounder on that last play?Don’t think I understand what happened.I’m literally in pain.

    Fields was the inbounder.

  130. No way was that play for Novak. Nobody else was open and it was going to be a turnover. He was sorta open and nearest to Landry.

  131. ruruland: Incredibly stupid and short-sighted to fire him given the huge improvements offensively the last week.

    That’s exactly J. Dolan’s style

  132. jon abbey:
    so much better play by our handful of actual players the last two games, it’s going to be a real shame when we have Baron and Smith at guards and still miss the playoffs because of losing all these games early.

    This team is not going to miss the playoffs, barring injury.

    Melo’s never missed the playoffs, Amar’e hasn’t missed it in ages. Both of these guys can carry you for a month with 30+ ppg on 50+ %, get you to .500. they’ve both done it or very similar in nut-cutting situations.

    I said it last night, I think 26-28 wins in the final 43 games is do-able, espeically with the help that could come in MArch.

  133. BigBlueAL:
    Knickerblogger favorites Shump and Fields miss the 2 biggest shots of the game and hardly a peep here about those plays.Shouldnt have come down to that final play of the game.

    You’re right shouldn’t have come down to that final play, but those were two good shots in the flow of the offense. Can’t fault that. Sometimes (plenty of times for our Knicks) they don’t go down.

  134. id rather see TD taking any one of those last shots right there, u guys are losing it, those look like his shots. his ball handling ….. smh. next game lets just go back to basics with TD. HA !

  135. I just don’t understand the last two end of game plays the living mustache drew up. A three from stat, a three from a guy who hasn’t played all game? Offensive genius at its finest.

  136. BigBlueAL: Fields was the inbounder.

    The Celts had 3 guys denying any passing lane to Melo. They didn’t put a defender on the inbounder. Nowak was on the floor ostensibly to space it, but he ended up having to come get the ball. (We had no timeouts left.)

    Again, if we had anything even approaching a competent–not great–PG we would have had options.

  137. Nets will be back-to-back tomorrow. Even though its 3rd of 3, Knicks will blow them out. I reiterate that Utah at home will be a nice gauge of progress. Tonight was fun and easy to root for the team. Meaning the 5 actual NBA players on the team. Having Melo healthy makes a huge difference.

  138. BTW, was at the game last night and the booing every time TD checked in was relentless. He’s just not an NBA player right now.

  139. id rather see TD taking any one of those last shots right there, u guys are losing it, those look like his shots. his ball handling ….. smh. next game lets just go back to basics with TD. HA !

    Remember, you decided you liked Lin better than TD.

  140. A 2 point loss on the road to the Celtics with a chance to win is a lot better than back to back losses to the Raptors and Bobcats at home. Don’t get me wrong, I’m in for a long night of drinking after this one, but this is better than a few weeks ago.

  141. Mulligan: You’re right shouldn’t have come down to that final play, but those were two good shots in the flow of the offense. Can’t fault that. Sometimes (plenty of times for our Knicks) they don’t go down.

    Most high-school kids wouldve made the shot Shump missed.

  142. Gamecockerbocker:
    I just don’t understand the last two end of game plays the living mustache drew up. A three from stat, a three from a guy who hasn’t played all game? Offensive genius at its finest.

    The STAT three last night, the Fields three tonight, the Shumpert three a couple possessions earlier were all excellent looks. Guys just didn’t hit them. By the time you get to 5 secs left with no timeouts the other team can force the ball to the B-teamers who simply haven’t been up to snuff.

  143. Besides, this team offensively bears no resemblance to the team of the first 20 games. I can see the offense at the very least middling to go along with top 10 defense to get you that .600-.650 win percentage in the final two thirds of the season.

  144. Why did they go back to TD instead of Lin in the second half. At least Lin looked like he had played basketball before. Douglas is absolute garbage.

  145. Knickerblogger favorites Shump and Fields miss the 2 biggest shots of the game and hardly a peep here about those plays. Shouldnt have come down to that final play of the game.

    No one ripped STAT for his missed three last night, either. If you should be out there and you miss an open look, it happens. We only give people crap when…

    A. It is a bad shot

    or

    B. It is taken by someone who should not be out there.

    To wit, I loves me some Balkman, but if Balkman is taking the game-winning three, I’m not going to be happy even if he makes it. Okay, I mean, obviously I’d like it, but I’d criticize the intelligence of the move!

  146. Dantoni really shortened the rotation tonight. Other than JJ with 23 minutes off the bench, nobody played more than 10 minutes. Desperation time, me thinks!

  147. dantoni has to draw up better plays than the last two- the one that melo passed and ended with the fields air ball and the novak air ball.

    they dont have anyone who can inbound the ball there-other than melo who should be the best option to shoot it and the guy the play is designed for. they need to have melo inbound and then pass it right back to him

  148. the 3 from stat was a good look. What can you do? You get guys open shots and hope they make it. That shump three tonight was WIDE OPEN.

  149. The STAT three last night, the Fields three tonight, the Shumpert three a couple possessions earlier were all excellent looks. Guys just didn’t hit them. By the time you get to 5 secs left with no timeouts the other team can force the ball to the B-teamers who simply haven’t been up to snuff.

    Generally agreed, although I still kind of think Fields should have driven and tried to either score or draw a foul. But yeah, that was a serviceable look. Shump and STAT had flat out good looks.

  150. David Crockett: The Celts had 3 guys denying any passing lane to Melo. They didn’t put a defender on the inbounder. Nowak was on the floor ostensibly to space it, but he ended up having to come get the ball. (We had no timeouts left.)

    Again, if we had anything even approaching a competent–not great–PG we would have had options.

    You had to anticipate that. Melo inbounding the ball would have forced the Celtics hand….

    From what I know of inbounds plays Melo was not the first option there.

    I think MDA wanted to use him as a decoy, slipping Novak and Fields out.

    I’m not sure MDU understands not just the fact that Melo has been indisputably the best last-second shot maker in the game, but the kind of shots he’s made.

    Check for yourself the difficulty of his game-winners.

  151. BigBlueAL: Most high-school kids wouldve made the shot Shump missed.

    Come on. In order to be hyperbole it can’t be flat out untrue. It has to be kinda true.

    Shump hit from basically the same spot a few minutes earlier. He backrimmed it. That shot was a quarter of the way down. Fields missed EVERYTHING.

  152. 2010:
    dantoni has to draw up better plays than the last two- the one that melo passed and ended with the fields air ball and the novak air ball.

    they dont have anyone who can inbound the ball there-other than melo who should be the best option to shoot it and the guy the play is designed for. they need to have melo inbound and then pass it right back to him

    THis

  153. I’m still confused as to why Lin wasn’t put in instead of Toney in the 2nd half.

    D’Antoni didn’t trust him in a close game so he defaulted to Toney. I think it was a bad move, too, but it is D’Antoni’s job on the line, so I can see why he’d go with a guy he trusted more.

  154. JR Sec 112:
    the 3 from stat was a good look.What can you do?You get guys open shots and hope they make it.That shump three tonight was WIDE OPEN.

    Stats not a good three point shooter. Shump Shump, as much as I love him, is not a good shooter. I doubt if the situation was reversed that Rivers would’ve drawn up a three for garnet to end the game even though he hit one earlier. Just let Melo take the last shot. Make it or miss it, at least he’s been there before. And Howbout tonight give stat the ball down low!!! I’m ready to drink/ have already started.

  155. SERIOUSLY i prefer a Perkins scowl over a Carmelo smile. The game went south in the third with the couple of TD bricks.

  156. Brian Cronin: No one ripped STAT for his missed three last night, either. If you should be out there and you miss an open look, it happens. We only give people crap when…

    A. It is a bad shot

    or

    B. It is taken by someone who should not be out there.

    To wit, I loves me some Balkman, but if Balkman is taking the game-winning three, I’m not going to be happy even if he makes it. Okay, I mean, obviously I’d like it, but I’d criticize the intelligence of the move!

    But Brian, at some point you need to redefine what good and bad shots are with current personnel.

    Good and bad shots are relative. Right now, Shumpert is an atrocious 3pt shooter. Amar’e is historically a bad 3pt shooter, even if he’s more capable than monst non-spread 4s.

  157. You’d be hard pressed to find a guy getting regular minutes in the NBA that is worse than Toney right now. How much patience can you have? Does his abominable play qualify as breach of contract?

  158. The worst Boston squad I’ve seen in years. The Knicks should have easily put them away before the fourth quarter (almost any other NBA team would have done that tonight). But they can’t do it because they have only 3 and a half players value. Not even four.

  159. Richmond County:
    A 2 point loss on the road to the Celtics with a chance to win is a lot better than back to back losses to the Raptors and Bobcats at home.Don’t get me wrong, I’m in for a long night of drinking after this one, but this is better than a few weeks ago.

    So much better.

  160. David Crockett: Come on. In order to be hyperbole it can’t be flat out untrue. It has to be kinda true.

    Shump hit from basically the same spot a few minutes earlier. He backrimmed it. That shot was a quarter of the way down. Fields missed EVERYTHING.

    Shump had an hour to shoot his shot. Fields had a clean look but it was a quick catch and shoot.

    Im sorry but people here dismissing those misses as it happens is just wrong. Its the fundamental problem with this team, they cant fucking shoot even when WIDE OPEN. It happens over and over and over, missing wide open 3pters like that is ridiculous.

  161. ROUGH:
    The worst Boston squad I’ve seen in years. The Knicks should have easily put them away before the fourth quarter (almost any other NBA team would have done that tonight). But they can’t do it because they have only 3 and a half players value. Not even four.

    What are you talking about? Boston has been one of the hottest teams of late and they’ve done it without Rondo.

    How could anyone in their right mind say the team in green tonight was not incredibly formidable, especially defneisvely. It’s the same team, slightly older, not quite as deep.

  162. didn’t check in here much yesterday, but my problem with the STAT 3 attempt against the Bulls was that he didn’t go up strong with it, he kind of double clutched, then shot it. I think if he went up confidently like he would have last season, he drains it.

    as for stat keeping and how laughable it is, there is no way in hell that Shump Shump only had one steal in that game.

  163. @379 the stat shot was an open look at a 3 and they were down 3. By any measure it was a good shot. The Knicks dont have a single 3 point shooter that can create space besides melo. The bulls knew that and tripled Melo. Like they did tonight. You cant say ‘let melo take the last shot’. That shot isnt there if the knicks have ZERO other shooters. And STAT cant get the ball down low w/o a true point who can hit a midrange J consistently. This is not about MDA. This is about a roster that has no shooters. Which is why I cant understand why Melo is the target on this board. He is far and away their best player and in my opinion has actually played better than I expected since the trade.

  164. BigBlueAL: Shump had an hour to shoot his shot.Fields had a clean look but it was a quick catch and shoot.

    Im sorry but people here dismissing those misses as it happens is just wrong.Its the fundamental problem with this team, they cant fucking shoot even when WIDE OPEN.It happens over and over and over, missing wide open 3pters like that is ridiculous.

    Also its not just those final 2 shots, late 3rd/early 4th quarter there were a boatload of wide open misses (most from TD). Its unacceptable at this level.

  165. Don’t think you can blame Dantoni for Melo’s hero ball instinct at least…George Karl couldn’t get him to change for years. It’s just not gonna happen. You can blame Dantoni for the puzzling rotations and for Toney Douglas actually being suited up to play and not fetching hot dogs for the fans.

  166. Dolan certainly sucks, but the part about D’Antoni that has to have every single Knick fan massively disappointed is how lousy of an OFFENSIVE coach he somehow seems to be, point guard or no. Bill Simmons called him the best offensive coach in NBA history in his book, pretty sure that’s not surviving in future editions.

  167. Roshi:
    You’d be hard pressed to find a guy getting regular minutes in the NBA that is worse than Toney right now.How much patience can you have?Does his abominable play qualify as breach of contract?

    I think it’s pretty clear that TD is the worst player in the nba now. He was -9 in 8 minutes tonight- that 8 minute stretch in which the game was given away. Lin isn’t very good but he has a chance to be somewhere near below average as opposed to atrocious.

    Officials really didn’t help us tonight. This is where it is good to have an owner like Cuban. He wouldve gone ballistic at the officiating. I can’t think of a star in this league who absorbs more contact without calls than Melo. Seriously, durant would have shot 24 FTs tonight if he drew the contact Melo did. Not to mention that horrible play that MdA got a tech for arguing.

    Btw where is amare at the end of these games? He needs to ask for the ball.

    Overall you have to be encouraged though. I think Shumpert is playing really well and is actually starting to look like a PG at times. D rebounding was seriously a problem though.

  168. cgreene:
    Thomas, that write up could not have captured any better my sentiments.I was just about to write that I just was not sure that I could take watching another loss.Another gut wrenching, heart breaking Knicks’ loss.This season has actually been the nadir in a decade of rooting for the worst team with the most loathsome owner in sports because there was hope and expectations.I am exasperated… but I will watch and subject myself to this inexplicable curse of a team yet again.My patience has thinned and my nerves are frayed.I am scared.

    Thanks for the kind words cgreene. So how are feeling after this one. I’m disappointed but I am not ticked off like I was two weeks ago.

  169. ruruland: What are you talking about? Boston has been one of the hottest teams of late and they’ve done it without Rondo.

    How could anyone in their right mind say the team in green tonight was not incredibly formidable, especially defneisvely. It’s the same team, slightly older, not quite as deep.

    Don’t know about the other games, but tonight they sucked big time, esp. in the first half. No spacing, no rythm, no jumping, no rebounds. They stayed in the game b/c of three point shooting, and because of the Knicks inability to push more when they needed to, esp. at the end of quarters 2 and 3. You are right, they are a very experienced squad. This showed in the fourth quarter.

  170. couple of bricks an half hour ago cost us everything you guys wanna put it all Td, lin is a better player in the third but hes just not a better shooter or ball handler under pressure, plus T been there before. I like Lin’s overall game more than TD’s but toney skill set is built for certain situations. NOVAK shouldnt touch the floor unless popovich is our coach. movement offense calls for players who can move with the ball

  171. Nuggets scored a ton with Melo, consistently in top 7 in offensive efficiency. The ‘Melo in Denver played Hero ball’ is GK revisionist history bs.

  172. I think it’s pretty clear that TD is the worst player in the nba now. He was -9 in 8 minutes tonight- that 8 minute stretch in which the game was given away. Lin isn’t very good but he has a chance to be somewhere near below average as opposed to atrocious.

    Officials really didn’t help us tonight. This is where it is good to have an owner like Cuban. He wouldve gone ballistic at the officiating. I can’t think of a star in this league who absorbs more contact without calls than Melo. Seriously, durant would have shot 24 FTs tonight if he drew the contact Melo did. Not to mention that horrible play that MdA got a tech for arguing.

    Btw where is amare at the end of these games? He needs to ask for the ball.

    Overall you have to be encouraged though. I think Shumpert is playing really well and is actually starting to look like a PG at times. D rebounding was seriously a problem though.

    I dunno about worst player, but maybe worst player who gets eight minutes in the end of the third/beginning of the fourth.

    But yeah, I’m obviously much happier about this team. If it weren’t for Toney, I bet they win this game. Heck, if it weren’t for the game tomorrow, I bet they win this game (as D’Antoni would have played Melo more). So I’m feeling pretty good about the Knicks. Which is why losing D’Antoni now would be beyond brutal.

  173. Berman just tweeted:

    Novak said he was there as decoy and first option was to get ball in Melo’s hands.

  174. jon abbey:
    Dolan certainly sucks, but the part about D’Antoni that has to have every single Knick fan massively disappointed is how lousy of an OFFENSIVE coach he somehow seems to be, point guard or no. Bill Simmons called him the best offensive coach in NBA history in his book, pretty sure that’s not surviving in future editions.

    Dude, this team has ZERO shooters. They are forced to play the worst player in the NBA significant minutes and he rewards that by having the second highest usage on the team and THE WORST TS% of any guard in the league. I dare say out of the 14 losses we have right now, 7 can probably be directly attributed to Toney Douglas.

    Red Auerbach couldn’t make this a good offense. Phil Jackson is probably running as far away from this as possible.

    We need JR Smith badly. I just hope we aren’t so far out of it by march that he goes elsewhere.

  175. It would be typical Knicks fashion to get blown out tomorrow. Sad part is I actually have a feeling that will happen lol

  176. Frank: I think it’s pretty clear that TD is the worst player in the nba now.He was -9 in 8 minutes tonight- that 8 minute stretch in which the game was given away. Lin isn’t very good but he has a chance to be somewhere near below average as opposed to atrocious.

    Officials really didn’t help us tonight. This is where it is good to have an owner like Cuban. He wouldve gone ballistic at the officiating.I can’t think of a star in this league who absorbs more contact without calls than Melo. Seriously, durant would have shot 24 FTs tonight if he drew the contact Melo did. Not to mention that horrible play that MdA got a tech for arguing.

    Btw where is amare at the end of these games? He needs to ask for the ball.

    Overall you have to be encouraged though. I think Shumpert is playing really well and is actually starting to look like a PG at times. D rebounding was seriously a problem though.

    Kobe and Melo get the worst drive whistles of stars in the league.

    Melo is not one to really show contact, flop and flail like a Gallo or Durant.

    Durant is lighter and shows contact better. Gallo is a just a flailer and flopper.

  177. jon abbey:
    Dolan certainly sucks, but the part about D’Antoni that has to have every single Knick fan massively disappointed is how lousy of an OFFENSIVE coach he somehow seems to be, point guard or no. Bill Simmons called him the best offensive coach in NBA history in his book, pretty sure that’s not surviving in future editions.

    In D’Antoni’s first two years here, a team regularly starting the likes of Chris Duhon, Larry Hughes, and Jared Jeffries was 15th/17th in the league in offensive efficiency. Before the Melo trade, a team starting Amar’e Stoudemire and four guys nobody gave much of a thought to before the season began was around the top 5. I don’t know if he’s the “best in history,” but I think that’s a pretty impressive achievement. I think that the Knicks are a poor offensive team this season says a lot more about some SSS stuff with guys’ not quite having their shots together yet, the overratedness of Melo and Amar’e, and poor roster construction causing an overall lack of depth.

  178. By the way, I absolutely agree that the play at the end of the game down one should be a Melo iso. And the play at the end of the game down two should be Melo hoisting a three. No doubt about it. That’s why you have Melo, to take tough end of the game shots. It is his one unquestionable scoring strength – when a tough shot is needed, he is your man. Better than anyone in the NBA. So I’m down with getting him the ball. But if another player gets a look at a wide open three, like Shump did, I’m not blaming Shump for the miss, just like I wouldn’t blame Melo if he missed a good look at a jumper. I can differ with the play calling, but come on, open threes are a good thing.

    Also, Boston is really good at not letting guys like Melo beat them, which we saw on that last play.

  179. Brian Cronin: I dunno about worst player, but maybe worst player who gets eight minutes in the end of the third/beginning of the fourth.

    But yeah, I’m obviously much happier about this team. If it weren’t for Toney, I bet they win this game. Heck, if it weren’t for the game tomorrow, I bet they win this game (as D’Antoni would have played Melo more). So I’m feeling pretty good about the Knicks. Which is why losing D’Antoni now would be beyond brutal.

    I’d love to see someone compe up with a name of a guy who is worse than Douglas who actually plays non-garbage time.

    I think Douglas is not only the worst player in the NBA, but by a considerable margin… At least now.
    At least give him a couple of weeks to clear his head.

    Not gibing Lin the second half rotation was truly an awful decision. Not that I want MDA fired, but these are the kinds of in-games moves he’s always struggled with.

  180. Toney Douglas is completely worthless. If he doesn’t play the Knicks win that game.

    Did anyone else think the refs totally lost control of the game? I can’t recall another game this season where I thought almost every single whistle was brutal.

  181. Brian Cronin:
    By the way, I absolutely agree that the play at the end of the game down one should be a Melo iso. And the play at the end of the game down two should be Melo hoisting a three. No doubt about it. That’s why you have Melo, to take tough end of the game shots. It is his one unquestionable scoring strength – when a tough shot is needed, he is your man. Better than anyone in the NBA.So I’m down with getting him the ball. But if another player gets a look at a wide open three, like Shump did, I’m not blaming Shump for the miss, just like I wouldn’t blame Melo if he missed a good look at a jumper. I can differ with the play calling, but come on, open threes are a good thing.

    Also, Boston is really good at not letting guys like Melo beat them, which we saw on that last play.

    Open threes are a good thing. Open threes that are constantly missed every game is not a good thing. Losing a game once in awhile by missing open shots is fine because that happens to every team. But as much as people complain about a million things wrong with this team one of if not the biggest problem with this team is the horrible shooting which in the end cost them the game tonight. Its gotten ridiculous how bad this team shoots.

  182. I apologize, though, for even opening up a discussion of where Toney ranks. As it really doesn’t matter if he’s the worst rotation player or the second worst or the fifth worst. The important thing is that he is terrible right now and D’Antoni simply cannot stick him into the middle of a close game when he didn’t even trust him in the first half (and the guy he put in instead of Toney was not awful).

  183. Toney’s -9 is our third quarter lead being flushed down the toilet. He is epically bad right now. I honestly think we’d be more effective with four players on the court.

  184. I think Toney being this lousy is at least a bit on D’Antoni and his coaching staff, this is a guy who LED THE ENTIRE LEAGUE in 3 pointers made after the All-Star break last year. whether it’s his shoulder, his confidence or the way he’s been used (probably all three), he sure is awful right now.

    and he’s still decidedly better than Mike Bibby.

  185. We’ve dug such a deep hole for ourselves that at this point, we can’t afford any more losses to bad teams. That’s what it will come down to – beating the bad teams and playing .500 against the rest. But our margin for error gets smaller and smaller every loss with this shortened season.

  186. and he’s still decidedly better than Mike Bibby.

    Which is utterly insane, right? How can that be? It’s true, but how can they be? How can they have a guy on the roster who is that bad that he is worse than a player as bad as Toney is now? Just cut him already!

  187. Brian Cronin:
    Rotation guys in the NBA right now worse than Toney:

    Larry Hughes
    Roger Mason
    Jamaal Magloire
    Travis Outlaw
    Cory Higgins
    Maybe Matt Carroll
    Maybe Austin Daye

    The difference is that none of those guys gets the regular minutes Toney does, let alone the clutch minutes he gets. Except Daye, and it is close between those two.

    Is that by negative WS48?

    Or opinion?

  188. ruruland: Overrated by whom, Yoda?

    Certainly no one on this board. Melo’s non-injury numbers have been very impressive. Amar’e clearly has his legs back. Let’s revisit this post in April.

    When most fans (even smart ones like Jon Abbey) take it as self-evident that any competent offensive coach who has Amar’e and Melo at his disposal would have a good offense, I think it’s clear they’re overrated. Yes, Melo and Amar’e’s numbers will be better as the season progresses, and the team will likely not stay the 24th-ranked offense in the league.

    But what would Melo’s numbers improving mean? Probably a pretty high-volume, average TS%, like he’s always had; and when your top guy has average efficiency, you need to be surrounded by super-high-efficiency role players (which we don’t really have, outside maybe an in-form Fields) to have an excellent offense. Since many people do rank Melo as one of the game’s top few scorers, that means he’s overrated. And the attitude that Amar’e was an MVP candidate early last year, based on his scoring, also dramatically overrated his abilities by ignoring how dependent he was on system and point guard play. Since we lack SSOL personnel, his numbers may bounce up to middle efficiency, but I doubt they’re getting near 60% TS Amar’e territory of old. Since they’re going to take the majority of our shots, and not likely post more than average efficiency, that means that our improvement will likely be from about 24 to 14 or so, not up to top-8, where we probably need to be to seriously compete.

  189. We’ve dug such a deep hole for ourselves that at this point, we can’t afford any more losses to bad teams. That’s what it will come down to – beating the bad teams and playing .500 against the rest. But our margin for error gets smaller and smaller every loss with this shortened season.

    Milwaukee lost tonight, too, though. So the Knicks are amazingly just two games out of the 8th spot, with just Cleveland in between them and Milwaukee.

  190. I can’t really pin this one on TD- there was about a 6 minute stretch where the Knicks couldn’t get a rebound (and how many threes did Boston get off of offensive rebounds). Boston was quicker to every loose ball in the 4th as well. Say what you want but the Knicks got good looks on two of the last three possessions against a very good half-court defensive team. I’d also add that Shumpert picked up four of his fouls on the perimeter and the Celtics were somehow able to get into guys 26 feet from the basket without the whistle blowing.

  191. jon abbey: and he’s still decidedly better than Mike Bibby.

    I think that is a hard position to defend right now. Bibby is statistically less worse (better is hard to use here) than TD albeit in limited minutes. The only reason TD is getting time over Bibby is that he is at least physically capable of driving to the hoop (not to say that he ever fucking tries to do it).

    Can you all recall a Knicks guard getting THIS many minutes who has played THIS badly?

    D’Antoni, I love you but playing Douglas is costing you your job. I know that you like Toney and he works hard, but do the human thing and think about yourself (and by extension all Knicks fans). Let him work out his problems in garbage time.

  192. I can’t really pin this one on TD- there was about a 6 minute stretch where the Knicks couldn’t get a rebound (and how many threes did Boston get off of offensive rebounds). Boston was quicker to every loose ball in the 4th as well. Say what you want but the Knicks got good looks on two of the last three possessions against a very good half-court defensive team. I’d also add that Shumpert picked up four of his fouls on the perimeter and the Celtics were somehow able to get into guys 26 feet from the basket without the whistle blowing.

    Oh, no doubt. Boston beat the Knicks to every loose ball. But it was a two point loss where Toney was, what, a -9 in a one 8 minute stretch, right? That’s ludicrous.

  193. Tomorrow will be very interesting as you have to figure that guys will have it in the back of their minds (if not front and center) that they might be playing for their coach’s job.

  194. Tomorrow will be very interesting as you have to figure that guys will have it in the back of their minds (if not front and center) that they might be playing for their coach’s job.

    Yes, and you’d have to think that they would just need to bring the same game they played last night and tonight to beat Jersey, right? So just don’t get worse tomorrow, Knicks!

  195. Brian Cronin: Yes, and you’d have to think that they would just need to bring the same game they played last night and tonight to beat Jersey, right? So just don’t get worse tomorrow, Knicks!

    Its their 3rd game in a row after suffering a couple of brutally tough, demoralizing losses previous 2 nights. I fear a flat and exhausted Knicks team tomorrow. Hopefully it will still be enough to win. I would be really impressed and encouraged if they come out and blow out the Nets.

  196. Brian Cronin: Oh, no doubt. Boston beat the Knicks to every loose ball. But it was a two point loss where Toney was, what, a -9 in a one 8 minute stretch, right? That’s ludicrous.

    Yeah, but his defense was okay, he didn’t turn the ball over, and he wasn’t the guy letting Chris Wilcox kill them on the offensive glass. You’d like to think a 25 year old point guard could beat 34 year old Paul Pierce to a loose ball in the backcourt, though. Lin made one nice play (the drive and dish to Amar’e) in his seven minutes which was one more than TD made but I’m not sure he’d have made a difference- especially given how shaky he looked getting the ball past half-court against pressure.

  197. nicos:
    Tomorrow will be very interesting as you have to figure that guys will have it in the back of their minds (if not front and center) that they might be playing for their coach’s job.

    Well, a good win tomorrow, plus the fact that the team played much better this week, plus that Dolan does not like coach changesin the middle of the season…You never know.

  198. yoda4554:

    Since they’re going to take the majority of our shots, and not likely post more than average efficiency, that means that our improvement will likely be from about 24 to 14 or so, not up to top-8, where we probably need to be to seriously compete.

    I would probably agree with that assessment overal (thought it didn’t really address my question) though I think Melo can be a .575TS + player in this system WITH A PG.

    WITH A PG (BD) I can see them approaching top 10.

    With JR and BD I can see them approaching top 5, easily in fact.

    Remember, Melo has only played with one true passing guard in his entire career. And you should check the numbers he was posting as his game developed in year 4.

    Pre Iverson trade, which set Melo’s career back, Melo was averaging close to 32 ppg on over 50% from the field.

    Check the numbers here: http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/1975/year/2007/carmelo-anthony

    Call is SSS, but that was the last time Melo played alongside a pg who could deliver him a few easy baskets again. Melo’s offensive game had grown up by that point.

    Baron Davis can create easy opportunities for Melo that he really hasn’t had since Andre Miller. Obviously that goes for Amar’e. Those two corrections, or perhaps improvements alone, and you have a top-10 offense when you consider the domino effect it has on getting easy transition baskets.

  199. Just saw Rudy Fernandez get “hit” by a phantom ball courtesy of Matt Barnes. If I agree with JVG more than anything about, flopping should be reviewed after every game and a penalty should be installed. If there’s anything I’m proud of about the Knicks, it’s their complete inability to flop.

  200. Absolutely no identity in crunch time for Denver right now. Harrington and Miller once again carried the team to this point, however.

  201. ruruland: The great Gallo benched again in close 4th quarter game. 1-9, 6pts.

    It’s not that Melo is bad player, and it’s not that Gallo is better than Melo. It’s that it was a bad decision to deplete the team in order to get Melo. To this, add the fact that 3 players claim 90% of the salary cap. Beyond that is the chaos. We witnessed the outcome once again against the Celts tonight.

  202. ROUGH: It’s not that Melo is bad player, and it’s not that Gallo is better than Melo. It’s that it was a bad decision to deplete the team in order to get Melo. To this, add the fact that 3 players claim 90% of the salary cap. Beyond that is the chaos. We witnessed the outcome once again against the Celts tonight.

    Yeah we all get that, though I’m guessing you change your tune with the aforementioned additions.

    But a lot of talk has been about Gallo being better than Melo. A lot of people on this board allude to that. These are the times they hide, just like Gallo.

  203. ruruland: Yeah we all get that, though I’m guessing you change your tune with the aforementioned additions.But a lot of talk has been about Gallo being better than Melo. A lot of people on this board allude to that. These are the times they hide, just like Gallo.

    I don’t understand what tune I’m changing. I’ve always claimed that this team has 3 good players, all way overpaid, and almost nothing beyond that. And I do understand, although don’t agree with, those that say it was better to have Gallo instead of Mello. For what they mean is that the team is worse know than before.

  204. Why are we so convinced that JR Smith is going to accept our pro-rated mini mid-level exception? And what have we heard about Baron Davis’ workouts to date that offer even a shred of hope that he’s going to be the panacea for our point guard ills?

  205. I really wish all the Knuggets lovers here would have actually watched the last 2 close losses by them and their embarrassing offense down the stretch in both losses.

  206. I really wish all the Knuggets lovers here would have actually watched the last 2 close losses by them and their embarrassing offense down the stretch in both losses.

    Are we seriously going to go with talking shit when they lose and then not saying anything when they kick the Clippers’ ass on the road with Gallo lighting up the Cllipers? I am totally fine with not talking about Denver – heck, you can look back, I don’t bring them up when they win a game as I agree that it is silly to bring them up so frequently – but it can’t be “let’s not talk about Denver – unless they lose, in which case let’s talk about Denver”/”people talk about Gallo too much – unless he has a bad game, in which case we should talk about him.”

  207. Jake S.:
    Why are we so convinced that JR Smith is going to accept our pro-rated mini mid-level exception? And what have we heard about Baron Davis’ workouts to date that offer even a shred of hope that he’s going to be the panacea for our point guard ills?

    I hear that. I think as is the offense can be middling. Just holding out hope that both of those things come true. If it comes out differently it’s just for brevity.

  208. Brian Cronin:Are we seriously going to go with talking shit when they lose and then not saying anything when they kick the Clippers’ ass on the road with Gallo lighting up the Cllipers? I am totally fine with not talking about Denver – heck, you can look back, I don’t bring them up when they win a game as I agree that it is silly to bring them up so frequently – but it can’t be “let’s not talk about Denver – unless they lose, in which case let’s talk about Denver”/”people talk about Gallo too much – unless he has a bad game, in which case we should talk about him.”

    Right. As though losing to the Lakers in the closing minutes is somehow proof that they are fatally flawed.

  209. Brian Cronin: Are we seriously going to go with talking shit when they lose and then not saying anything when they kick the Clippers’ ass on the road with Gallo lighting up the Cllipers? I am totally fine with not talking about Denver – heck, you can look back, I don’t bring them up when they win a game as I agree that it is silly to bring them up so frequently –but it can’t be “let’s not talk about Denver – unless they lose, in which case let’s talk about Denver”/”people talk about Gallo too much – unless he has a bad game, in which case we should talk about him.”

    Except that the trade is lamented around here insufferably.

    Plenty of people posted about how great Denver looked last night and how envious they were of their players….

    Positive to negative talk about the Knuggets must be at least 10-1, and now you’re going to bring up the point that people are being hypocritical.

    Besides, this goes straight to the argument that will truly determine the winner and loser of the trade.

  210. Jake S.: Right. As though losing to the Lakers in the closing minutes is somehow proof that they are fatally flawed.

    The Nuggets losing 4th quarter game to good defensive teams is as much of a trend as the Knicks resurgence, and on this board they are equally relevant.

  211. Im not in a good mood tonight so I wanna annoy the shit out of all the Knuggets lovers tonight as they annoy the shit out of me when constantly dick pulling them any time they win. Sue me.

  212. Plus you know Brian Im a big Gallo fan and root for him to do well which is why I didnt mention at all about how bad he played tonight because I dont take pleasure in that. But the Nuggets losing like they did tonight by having Al Harrington take a step-back forced 3pter for the win I enjoyed watching.

  213. I know, Al, and seriously, I get the idea of it being annoying to have people rub the Nugget success in people’s faces. Like I said, I wouldn’t do it to people, as I agree that it’s a dick move and I can understand why it’d irritate you. I just don’t think the answer is to go the other way. Silence when they succeed and trash-talking when they fail.

    (while we are talking about the Nuggets, though, George Karl’s rotations make no sense. He just loves burying people. I remember when he used to regularly bury JR Smith for seemingly no reason. He just has this idea that this Lawson/Miller/Nene/Harrington/Afflalo lineup is his crunch time lineup no matter what, even if that exact lineup has failed the last three close games – but dammit, this is his lineup and he will stick with it)

  214. Is it me or is the officiating this year just as bad as some of the play? Nene wasn’t close to getting any ball on that last Bynum/Lakers play and no whistle- no way that’s a no call. And the play in the Knicks game where D’A picked up the tech- Fields has the ball in his hands, a Celtic clearly slaps it out and no one saw it? I think they’ve been better in recent years at huddling up and getting calls right but there have been some real head-stratching calls/no calls this year

  215. A. Take today’s Knicks;
    B. Take today’s Knicks, subtract Melo, and add Gallo, Wilson Chandler, Felton, and Mosgov. (Plus cash, lottery picks, etc)

    What would your choice be? I don’t say I’d definitely take B (as I think it’s not a clear yes/no situation), but I accept that there is a strong argument here.

  216. Is it me or is the officiating this year just as bad as some of the play? Nene wasn’t close to getting any ball on that last Bynum/Lakers play and no whistle- no way that’s a no call. And the play in the Knicks game where D’A picked up the tech- Fields has the ball in his hands, a Celtic clearly slaps it out and no one saw it? I think they’ve been better in recent years at huddling up and getting calls right but there have been some real head-stratching calls/no calls this year

    I dunno. This game’s officiating was terrible, but I don’t know if the officiating in general has been any worse than normal. They always seem to have head-scratchers. This game tonight, though, was godawful.

  217. Brian Cronin:
    I know, Al, and seriously, I get the idea of it being annoying to have people rub the Nugget success in people’s faces. Like I said, I wouldn’t do it to people, as I agree that it’s a dick move and I can understand why it’d irritate you. I just don’t think the answer is to go the other way. Silence when they succeed and trash-talking when they fail.

    (while we are talking about the Nuggets, though, George Karl’s rotations make no sense. He just loves burying people. I remember when he used to regularly bury JR Smith for seemingly no reason. He just has this idea that this Lawson/Miller/Nene/Harrington/Afflalo lineup is his crunch time lineup no matter what, even if that exact lineup has failed the last three close games – but dammit, this is his lineup and he will stick with it)

    You mean D’Antoni is not the only stubborn coach in the NBA!! :-)

  218. You mean D’Antoni is not the only stubborn coach in the NBA!! :-)

    When you think of all the stubborn coaches the Knicks have had these past two decades, it is kind of nuts. Nellie, Van Gundy, Brown and now D’Antoni – we’ve seen some amazingly stubborn coaches.

  219. Brian Cronin: When you think of all the stubborn coaches the Knicks have had these past two decades, it is kind of nuts. Nellie, Van Gundy, Brown and now D’Antoni – we’ve seen some amazingly stubborn coaches.

    Riley wasnt exactly the most flexible of coaches lol

  220. Riley wasnt exactly the most flexible of coaches lol

    True, but I felt weird about putting him along with those other guys when he changed his style so dramatically from Showtime to Quasi-Thuggery. Once he adopted a style he liked, he would stick with it through thick or thing, but at least he did make one notable change in his style during his career, which I don’t think the other guys have ever really done.

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