2012 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Magic

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Jim Cavan

Beyond his KnickerBlogger roots, Jim's work has appeared at ESPN.com, Grantland, The Classical, and the New York Times. He is currently working on a biography of Robert Silverman, entitled "Clownin' and Astoundin.'" Follow him on Twitter @JPCavan.

167 thoughts to “2012 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Magic”

  1. As the pregame recounts the hack-a-howard, it makes me think how nice it is to have a big man that hits free throws.

  2. So i’m listening on the radio (at work). 1050ESPN just did the pregame, then switched to Scott Van Pelt. WTF??

  3. New member here, Knicks fan living in Philly. Does anyone have a site where I can watch the game online?

  4. I have no clue how the hell Knicks are up 6 after the 1st quarter. But thankfully they are lol

  5. Is it bad that I like when Amare gets 3 early fouls so we can see more Jorts? I need a drink.

  6. You have to love Clyde: “That was like a quarterback sneak along the baseline.” Huh?

  7. Gorky:
    Just doin what Toney Douglas do – taking bad shots

    None of those shots he missed were bad. Are you watching the game? He wise wide open on all 3, and only made 1. Sure, his shot isn’t falling. But to call them “bad shots” is just dumb.

    However I will say this, when I see TD and Bibby bricking wide open 3’s, I wonder why Novak can’t get any time? That’s what he does! If the Magic are going to leave us that open behind the arc, we have to make them pay. Come on COACH!

  8. yknow…being a 3 point shooting, drive and kick type team is great if you have the personnel. We, however, don’t. Maybe we should try something different.

  9. I think the last 3 he missed was a good shot, he just missed. But before that he was taking ill-advised shots.

    Michael Cline: None of those shots he missed were bad. Are you watching the game? He wise wide open on all 3, and only made 1. Sure, his shot isn’t falling. But to call them “bad shots” is just dumb.

    However I will say this, when I see TD and Bibby bricking wide open 3?s, I wonder why Novak can’t get any time? That’s what he does! If the Magic are going to leave us that open behind the arc, we have to make them pay. Come on COACH!

  10. Michael Cline:
    Is it bad that I like when Amare gets 3 early fouls so we can see more Jorts? I need a drink.

    you said drink!! by law im obligated to converse with jack daniels!

  11. Robert Silverman (@BobSaietta):
    Did Stan Van Gundy wager on the Knicks this game? Howard got two shots in the first and know he’s sitting him through most of this quarter. I’m not complaining, mind you, but it seems downright strange.

    I believe this is the first of 3 straight games for them. Might be being cautious with the minutes a bit today??

  12. Yeah he’s definitely playing better than before. I loved that drive when he saw the open lane.

    Robert Silverman (@BobSaietta):
    Toney’s playing well (knock on any substance that even vaguely resembles wood). I really didn’t have a problem w/any of the shots he’s taken.

  13. A day game?? Oops…

    Tell me, is it worth going home and setting the DVR for the 2nd half, or should I just let this one slide?

  14. Anthony playing aggressively, not settling for the J (maybe cuz he missed a few early). He’s also getting some friendly home whistles.

  15. Z:
    A day game?? Oops…

    Tell me, is it worth going home and setting the DVR for the 2nd half, or should I just let this one slide?

    I would. Melo has 20, 5, and 3 at the half. Toney is hitting a few more shots. And we’re playing tough interior D on Howard.

  16. Robert Silverman (@BobSaietta):
    Toney’s playing well (knock on any substance that even vaguely resembles wood). I really didn’t have a problem w/any of the shots he’s taken.

    yeah, and Fields hasn’t looked terrible today too, maybe there’s light at the end of the tunnel after all… (KNOCK ON WOOD)

    by the way, when Melo is that aggressive no single NBA defender can stop him, and he’s been moving the ball pretty well when doubled, I just hope he keeps that up and ditches hero ball when 4th quarter comes.

  17. So far this maybe the best Knicks, even better than the Philly game. just 5 turnovers and on top of that 5 steals already! let’s hope they can keep it up.

    I am also really happy for Landry. he is active on all fronts and doing a good job so far. he may not be the best Knick out there, but if he can perform as he did early last year, he will be an important piece of this puzzle

  18. on a sidenote, is it just me or Kyrie Irving has looked awesome so far?

    I know it’s early, but I thought he would struggle way more than he has, Byron Scott seems to be doing a great job with such a talent-deprived roster.

  19. last year these days, STATs name was among the contenders for the MVP. this year, 9 mins, 3Fs and 2pts. sad :(

  20. Bruno Almeida: yeah, and Fields hasn’t looked terrible today too, maybe there’s light at the end of the tunnel after all… (KNOCK ON WOOD)

    did you miss the part where he left Redick open repeatedly early on? one of the best parts of Baron coming back is that Fields will finally be buried where he deserves.

  21. jon abbey: did you miss the part where he left Redick open repeatedly early on? one of the best parts of Baron coming back is that Fields will finally be buried where he deserves.

    I was looking at his offensive game, because on defense I always expect him to be terrible, so leaving Redick open all the time was on par with his usual output and my expectations of him…

  22. I didn’t see the 1st half but by judging from the box score, I’m going to knee-jerk blame Landry for those 3 Reddick 3s.

  23. @42

    He also managed to turn it over twice in 9 minutes. He’s horrible. He’s getting outplayed by a second round pick with a vertical leap of about 5 inches.

  24. If anybody doubts the impact of Tyson Chandler on this team, I refer you to Dwight Howard’s stat line in the first half of this game.

  25. The Knicks should waive Lin, sign Keith Bogans and banish Landry Fields to the end of the bench. Bogans at least plays smart perimeter D. Fields doesn’t appear to do anything well.

  26. the optimistic approach: A legitimate 1 getting amare the pill from Feb on gets him back to an all star level. A legitimate 1 minimizes melos ball stopping iso plays. A legitimate 1 gets chandler easy dunks. a legitimate 1 helps shumperts o by getting him easy, open j’s. i’m going to be an optimist. this team we’re watching ain’t a done deal.

  27. What’s this intense hatred of Landry Fields? Yeah he’s not playing good perimeter D but he is contributing with passing and occasional scoring.

  28. Tyson Chandler so far the MVP of this game. Dwight Howard has been a complete nonfactor. Also, the offense looks good. I even like Anthony’s pull up threes (except for the one from like 27 feet). He’s shooting them in rhythm.

  29. JK47:
    The Knicks should waive Lin, sign Keith Bogans and banish Landry Fields to the end of the bench.Bogans at least plays smart perimeter D.Fields doesn’t appear to do anything well.

    that would be good, imo, Bogans has a defensive mentality and hit 38% on 3s last year, he can’t be worse than Fields… at the very least, it brings competition and another guy with a defensive mentality on the roster.

  30. Oh man I missed Jared Jeffries.

    I haven’t laughed this much during a Knicks game for a while.

    I also enjoy his D.

  31. I guess I’m the only one who likes how we’ve been doubling Howard, at least most of the time.

    If we didn’t, he’d turn anyone we had on him to mincemeat, even our beloved Chandler. If he gets hot, that is, and if he does they’re a lot harder to beat.

  32. The good and bad of Jared Jeffries: fugly 20-foot jumper, but then takes the charge on the other end. Classic JJ.

  33. Walker definitely has the lowest basketball IQ of this Knicks team, and that’s saying A LOT.

  34. Bruno Almeida:
    Walker definitely has the lowest basketball IQ of this Knicks team, and that’s saying A LOT.

    agreed! that was the stupidest play ever!

  35. Bruno Almeida:
    Walker definitely has the lowest basketball IQ of this Knicks team, and that’s saying A LOT.

    He is a dumbass out there…he always pushes off when he drives to the hoop every single goddamn time.

  36. Anyone actually have a feeling they will get a necessary stop at end of this game when they need it? I don´t…somehow I see Turkoglu wide open for 3 with less than a minute to go and the Magic down 2….I really hope my premonition is incorrect!

  37. Like honestly the Knicks players do realize that the only thing Orlando wants to do is shoot 3pters right?? I mean even with Howard not in the game they are still getting wide open 3pters.

  38. any screen set around the 3 pt line leads to a wide open 3, that’s stupidity and lack of effort, it’s unbelievable.

  39. Let’s see, Landry charging foul, Landry allows a wide open 3, Landry with an airball. Dave Berri wept.

  40. fields with a charge and then an airball. somebody please kill me. I can’t take this. Fields needs to sit. I don’t want him to play again!

  41. is it possible to erase what i said about Field’s first half? how can he suck more?

  42. I hate Landry Fields a thousand times more than Cock-boy hates Melo. why he is on the floor at crunch time boggles my mind, he’d better be out after this timeout.

  43. you want to blame melo, but it’s impossible to have offensive flow when you have garbage shooters like fields, bill walker, TD, shump, bibby, jeffries, and STAT (yes his outside game is garbage now).

  44. @90

    But Landry was the 12th best player in the NBA last year. He’s just, um, in a slump. Yeah, that’s it.

    Sheesh.

  45. why the fuck is shump gambling? another godamn 3. If they had any decent players other then the big 3, this would be an utterly winnable game. It’s sad how little talent there is in this league. Gilbert Arenas please?

  46. not when Ryan Anderson keeps getting open 3’s, of course gets his career game against the Knicks

  47. Zone Defense? Might be time to switch out the slashers for the jump shooters. Isn’t this the only reason Novak is on the roster?

  48. Fields is not in a soph slump. Its been since the trade that he’s slumped. Besides. Really. What is he good for? D? 3pt shooting? Athleticism? I’ve heard rebounging, but he’s a natural 3.

  49. Are you serious? He will be lit up worse than Fields and wouldn’t solve our guard problem at all. We need a guard who can run the PnR

    llcoolbp: why the fuck is shump gambling? another godamn 3. If they had any decent players other then the big 3, this would be an utterly winnable game. It’s sad how little talent there is in this league. Gilbert Arenas please?

  50. Toney had a wide open Stat rolling towards the basket. Dwight Howard has five fouls. But instead he passes to Melo who fails to hit iron.

  51. good D from shump the chump. I see only one solution. Dantoni has to go. Thats the only thing that can shake this team up. There is talent at the top. The role players can at least play defense. They need a coach that will ensure at least that much.

  52. llcoolbp:
    good D from shump the chump. I see only one solution. Dantoni has to go. Thats the only thing that can shake this team up. There is talent at the top. The role players can at least play defense. They need a coach that will ensure at least that much.

    which coach might that be?

  53. llcoolbp:
    good D from shump the chump. I see only one solution. Dantoni has to go. Thats the only thing that can shake this team up. There is talent at the top. The role players can at least play defense. They need a coach that will ensure at least that much.

    danphony is not a NYC coach.

  54. citizen: which coach might that be?

    how would you feel about Ewing? Him, Sloan, and….thats all I can think of. I’m actually curious bout how people feel bout danphony.

  55. Robert Silverman (@BobSaietta):
    Ow. This game hurts worse than the blowout. If you hold Howard to 8 and 7, you gotta win.

    Nothing short of a game losing shot in Game 7 of the finals hurts worse than a blowout. I’ll recall the last 2 games against Memphis and Oklahoma City if I may.

  56. BigBlueAL:
    Stan Van Gundy won this game by going zone.Fucking genius.

    I’m not sure why teams don’t throw a zone at the Knicks for 48 minutes. They have no one on this team that can shoot.

  57. He landed on Anderson’s foot. that can f up your ankle.

    What I want to know is why didn’t D’Antoni take him out immediately? An immobile player is useless

    llcoolbp:
    anthony fake limping up the court to get sympathy from the crowd. If you can’t play, then why did you suit up?

  58. llcoolbp: jeff van gundy?, obviously would love phil jackson, frankly even herb williams.

    isn’t van gundy basically a persona non grata in MSG because of silly Jimmy? Is there any indication that Jackson wants to coach this year, and is there any indication that it would be in NY?? And Herb Williams, seriously???

  59. i would seriously be happy with anyone but dantoni. He is god aweful. I have never loved him, but this team had a chance today, and as bad as they have been, they can win games with the right coach.

  60. mura2337: danphony is not a NYC coach.

    Sorry, but that’s just stupid. There is no such thing as an “NYC coach”.

    And really people? Herb Williams? Jeff Van Gundy? Depression is making people say some ridiculous things here.

  61. llcoolbp:
    i would seriously be happy with anyone but dantoni. He is god aweful. I have never loved him, but this team had a chance today, and as bad as they have been, they can win games with the right coach.

    Their problems are much bigger than D’Antoni, I’m afraid. You can’t win consistently with three competent basketball players and a promising rookie.

  62. why did not they foul on that last play? this is typical D’Antoni, i have never seen Knicks foul in those situations. Magic ate up the time while at it, what were they thinking?

  63. i know this will make us all throw up, but do any of you see Isiah coaching this team again? You know he has to be chirping in dolan’s ear right now. Dolan is crazy and like all rich privelaged people, he is surrounded by yes men. How f’d up would it be to see Thomas coaching this team again. I think the knicks are my personal nightmare. I must have sinned in my previous life, now I’m forced to endure the knicks for all eternity.

  64. Not to pick anyone, but can we call a moratorium on the term “D’Anphony”? It’s the kind of lame pun you might hear Sal from Staten Island toss around on the FAN. This site is better than that.

  65. xduckshoex: Sorry, but that’s just stupid.There is no such thing as an “NYC coach”.

    And really people?Herb Williams?Jeff Van Gundy?Depression is making people say some ridiculous things here.

    in the middle of the 1967-1968 season, red holzman was hired as our coach, replacing dick mcguire. he brought a team and defense oriented approach which won us a chip. that tradition continued through pat reilly and jeff van gundy. all were successful coaches and all had a defensive mentality. so, yes, there is such a thing as a nyc coach. a defensive minded coach, which dantoni is not. so i guess we’re both stupid.

  66. You know you suck when you make 15 more ft’s than the other team and still lose by 9 points.

  67. citizen: isn’t van gundy basically a persona non grata in MSG because of silly Jimmy?

    look… i’m happy to blame anything bad on jimmy d…. but not this one. van gundy should be persona non grata because he quit on the 2001 knicks 19 games into the season.

    he can claim he was tormented by his friends dying in 9-11 til the cows come home, but a clearer view was he could see the handwriting on the wall that the howard eisely led knicks were headed toward the toilet and he didn’t want to be polluted with the stink of that for his coaching career.

    he flat out quit. the little bald twerp should always be remembered for that , first.

  68. Jake S.:
    Not to pick anyone, but can we call a moratorium on the term “D’Anphony”? It’s the kind of lame pun you might hear Sal from Staten Island toss around on the FAN. This site is better than that.

    Thank you. Enough with the boring name calling.

  69. TheXman:
    granted tho, you look at field’s stat line 6 pts, 6 rebs, 4 assist, 1 TO

    exactly. fine stat line, dreadful player.

  70. Jake S.: Not to pick anyone, but can we call a moratorium on the term “D’Anphony”? It’s the kind of lame pun you might hear Sal from Staten Island toss around on the FAN. This site is better than that.

    +1. Its awful. Phil from Ronkonkoma, you’re on the FAN….

  71. Gorky:
    Are we allowed to post semi-illegal free streams here? If so, try atdhenet.tv

    Thanks for the link but man I wish I had just gone to the office today… @126 you can pin this one on the coach because his players don’t understand how to rotate on d or guard a pick and pop. He probably doesn’t coach it in practice, or if he does, maybe he just doesn’t understand it himself. Maybe once, in a timeout, he should tell Chandler that if they’re switching on d, he has to actually cover the guy he switches onto, even if he’s standing behind the 3 pt line. Knicks have a roster where they need to win ugly games, and D’Antoni just isn’t the right coach for that. Can we trade the Warriors D’Antoni for Mark Jackson???

  72. and yeah, Mark Jackson might literally be the dumbest NBA coach ever. did you miss the last game against Orlando? too funny.

  73. http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7466271/person-interest

    great article here about kobe. I think this article can give us some insight into melo as well. The important point in that article for me was about phil jackson being able to “rein” in kobe and find a balance for a few years. This is the kind of coach we need here. I’m not the GM, but dantoni certainly seems like he has lost this team. It’s time to bring someone else in.

  74. bobneptune: look… i’m happy to blame anything bad on jimmy d…. but not this one. van gundy should be persona non grata because he quit on the 2001 knicks 19 games into the season.

    JVG is sacred ground. Thou shall not use his name in vain. Perhaps he was smart enough to see what was coming with Dolan and has just been taking a company line on why he bailed?? I think he’s an absolute genius for quitting. Left what? $6MM on the table to do so in his first head coaching job with one of the most storied franchises in the NBA?? The man is a genius and has some conviction plus flat-out balls. You’d only be so lucky as to have him back…thanks Jimmy D.

  75. jon abbey:
    Van Gundy was never a good coach, good on D, but as bad an offensive coach as I’ve ever seen in the league. there’s a reason he hasn’t coached anywhere since Houston.

    as for who should replace the mediocre D’Antoni, I am holding out hope that this article is true and comes to pass:

    http://www.basknet.info/2012/01/03/knicks-to-make-24m3y-offer-to-rick-carlisle/

    rick carlisle would be perfect. I wouldn’t mind waiting for him. I would still fire dantoni now, and get an interim coach in there. It sends a message to the players.

  76. Can we trade the Warriors D’Antoni for Mark Jackson???

    i think you picked one of the few worse possibilities. gs is currently 27th in the league in points allowed. what is there in jackson’s background that makes one think he could ever coach defense even a little bit? his blood brothers breen and van gundy telling you so? what is there in his cv that makes one think he could coach at all. i mean he has zero coaching experience on any level and was one of the all time worst on the ball defenders in the history of the universe.

  77. Is it really so that NYK´s doesn´t have more talent than this? Can D`Anphony (or who ever he is) run this team? I just don´t wan to believe that this how the team is playing out their so much loved coach. Mike can´t solve this out anymore. But who´s next ;o)

  78. citizen:
    guess who led the Knicks in +/- today? hehe

    For Fields to really help this team he has to take, and make some jumpers. He airballed the one jumper he took and it seems he’s basically decided to stop even looking at the basket. Three shots in 31 minutes. He’s playing like a tenth man- just trying not to make any mistakes but not making any plays either.

  79. Turning point in the game was the 2 botched fastbreaks by the Knicks early in the 4th quarter.

  80. Eternal OptiKnist: JVG is sacred ground.Thou shall not use his name in vain.Perhaps he was smart enough to see what was coming with Dolan and has just been taking a company line on why he bailed??

    hey….. i admitted he saw the hand writing on the wall and quit. he’s the santonio holmes of nba coaches. it’s always a great feeling to know that when the going gets tough, he’ll be ready to pop the canopy and bail.

  81. anyone can shoot would be great for the knicks and this fucking lineup. I think just having one good scorer is enough, Amare and ‘Melo don’t really play well as a tandem. It’s not like Amare and Nash, one of them has to go. If they can turn either of them into a package of like Ryan Anderson/JJ or Jamal or anyone who can play fucking point to save their lives that’s a better team.

    4th offense was goddamn awful, at least the old team had Gallo/Easy A/Chandler who could hit 3’s. D’Antoni’s offense needs 3 point shooters.

  82. nicos: For Fields to really help this team he has to take, and make some jumpers.He airballed the one jumper he took and it seems he’s basically decided to stop even looking at the basket.Three shots in 31 minutes.He’s playing like a tenth man- just trying not to make any mistakes but not making any plays either.

    exactly, unfortunately box scores and Berri don’t recognize errors of omission, just errors of commission.

  83. i wish someone would suggest this: trade Amare & Fields for Turkoglu, Ryan Anderson, & Redick. the salaries match up :)

    Imagine the arguments on this blog: Amare is finished, Fields sucks…we would have 3 spot-up shooters for Melo to dish to…hahaha

  84. nicos: s doesn´t have more talent than this? Can D`Anphony (or who ever he is) run this team? I just don´t wan to believe that this how the team is playing out their so much loved coach. Mike can´t solve this out anymore. But who´s next ;o)

    He used to make 3’s at a an almost 40% clip, when that’s gone he’s practically useless. He used to jump in and grab great offensive rebounds. Not exactly sure what happened, maybe he’s not playing with as much freedom and now with lofty expectations.

  85. Ok not Mark Jackson (the St. Johns fan in me). I would love to see D’Antoni coach Monta, Curry, DLee, etc. tho – they’d lose 140-125 every game. And D’Antoni would be on the other side of the country. I agree @149, bring in an interim coach and send a message. Carlisle would be great.

  86. RastaPappa:
    Is it really so that NYK´s doesn´t have more talent than this? Can D`Anphony (or who ever he is) run this team?

    they have a considerable amount of talent. they have one of the best pure scoring forwards in the game. they have a great scoring 4 who is useless in a half court system with a ball stopper/chucker and desperately needs a front line pg to bring out his skill set. playing amar’e in this system with melo is like having itzhak pearlman playing fiddle in the charlie daniel’s band.

    they have a center who is javale mcgee except he clogs the cap getting 11 million more than mcgee per year. they have 2 nice rookies and awful bench players.

    they make a nice roto team, but a lousy nba team

  87. We’re losing a lot of these games because the opposing teams convert their open looks and we do not. Our guards were 10-27 from the floor, and 2-9 from 3PT. A lot of those are open looks. Yeah, ball movement is important but we were getting pretty decent ball movement today and the guards were still bricking everything, while Orlando’s perimeter players couldn’t miss.

  88. While we’re operating under the delusion that the Knicks can somehow unload Stoudemire and his uninsured contract, how about STAT for Kris Humphries, Anthony Morrow and some cap fodder? The Nets are guaranteed a star for their move to Brooklyn, and the pick n’ roll possibilities with D-Will are delectable. I can already see Jonathan Lethem and the rest of the Brooklyn literati waiving their towels in the front row.

  89. I don’t see this as a loss to get upset about. The knicks were in control most of the game. The knicks had issues covering the perimeter, but so do most teams who have a big front line. The Magic also hit several difficult threes. They were hot.

    The Magic in the end challenged the Knicks to make perimeter shots, and they couldn’t. Due to D’Antoni’s refusal to play pick and roll with Stoudemire, he becomes a major liability on the floor. Anderson abused him during the few minutes he was able to stay on the floor. Amare should have been the one committing the abuse, as Anderson is a mediocre defender and Howard was in foul trouble. Anthony can’t get good shots because you have two big guys clogging up the middle.

    We made it easy for Orlando in the end there.

  90. @106. Exactly. I’ve never heard D’antoni present any type of coherent defensive strategy. (Sighs…)

  91. latke:
    I don’t see this as a loss to get upset about.

    I kind of agree, although it was a win there for the taking. I was happy to see Amare have an impressive stretch in the third quarter (while sucking the rest of the time admittedly), he’s got to be counting the minutes until Baron shows up.

  92. Liked: good or improved
    – ball control
    – ball movement
    – interior D: shut down Howard- 1st time I can remember

    Didn’t like:
    – Amare MIA
    – perimeter D
    – lame O

    I hope the flaccid O is a brief if embarrassing price for our newly virile D. I’ll postpone the nightly diet of oysters for another 5-10 games bc it will take at least that long for the back court to stitch itself together and be reanimated as the two-headed monster…. Baron von Shumpenstein.

    Yes it’s a Hollywood fantasy, but in it I see BvS madly conducting a set of unnatural experiments and amid the explosion of sparks, these nonexistent stats begin to rise up from the darkness:
    – first half touches by Amare cutting into/across the paint
    – passes from Melo to a cutting Amare in the paint per 48 min
    – picks set by Chandler for Amare to cut through the paint per 48
    – BvS penetration & dishes that get to Melo at 12 to 15 ft per 48
    – % of the time when Melo is well-covered at 12 to 15 ft that he kicks it out to an open (decent) shooter behind the arc

    …. if only.

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