2012 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Clippers

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Jim Cavan

Beyond his KnickerBlogger roots, Jim's work has appeared at ESPN.com, Grantland, The Classical, and the New York Times. He is currently working on a biography of Robert Silverman, entitled "Clownin' and Astoundin.'" Follow him on Twitter @JPCavan.

184 thoughts to “2012 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Clippers”

  1. I’d still like to win these last two, make Woodson’s record 18-6 to D’Antoni’s 18-24.

    Fire Dolan and Thomas B!

    SHUMP SHUMP

  2. Will the Thrill:
    Lets go 6?ers

    You know what, fuck going into the playoffs ass first. Let’s crush LAC and bring on the Heat. I thought maybe if you started talking about resting guys and having a clear strategy about it you should go for it, give time for guys to rationalize it. But let’s just go for it. The only way you beat either Miami or CHicago is going for their throats. So, let’s do that tonight. LAC has something to play for, so should the Knicks.

  3. ruruland: You know what, fuck going into the playoffs ass first. Let’s crush LAC and bring on the Heat. I thought maybe if you started talking about resting guys and having a clear strategy about it you should go for it, give time for guys to rationalize it.But let’s just go for it. The only way you beat either Miami or CHicago is going for their throats. So, let’s do that tonight. LAC has something to play for, so should the Knicks.

    exactly. no more losses, 18 wins and a parade!!!!

  4. Lord, you can lead a horse to water…

    So many players injured for Orlando, but Charlotte can’t capitalize!

  5. whoa, what was amare just doing with his sneakers and ripping that thing off? i have never seen that before in my life!

  6. Bobcats down by 10 not too bad. Magic shooting 45% from 3’s, if they cool off, cats have a chance.

  7. Doug:
    Watching basketball with Hubie is the best, is it not?

    Okay. You’re watching the NBA on ESPN. Hubie Brown’s doing the game and so you know that you’re going to get a ton of second-person commentary and run on sentences that seemingly will never end but you don’t care because Hubie is so darn enjoyable even if he looks like Meryl Streep’s skeleton.

  8. andddddd he’s still in lol

    Robert Silverman: It’s not that. Gadzuric had to play tonight or tomorrow or else he isn’t eligible for the playoffs. Might as well get it out of the way early

  9. Landry with a nice looking move! I wonder if we’d still look this good if CP3 was playing.

  10. Robert Silverman: Okay. You’re watching the NBA on ESPN. Hubie Brown’s doing the game and so you know that you’re going to get a ton of second-person commentary and run on sentences that seemingly will never end but you don’t care because Hubie is so darn enjoyable even if he looks like Meryl Streep’s skeleton.

    That’s what happens when this guy writes in the voice of Hubie Brown at a STAGGERINGLY accurate percentage. You want to craft a reply in order to keep the joke going but you know there is no way you can top it.

  11. Hahaha yeah man you’ve become my favorite poster on here, crack me up everytime

    Doug: I’m flattered that my comedic voice is finally being recognized.

  12. Gideon Zaga:
    Hahaha yeah man you’ve become my favorite poster on here, crack me up everytime

    He’s equal opportunity, which really messes with your head. Never know which side he’s on. Funny dude though.

  13. Come on woody, play Blake against amare straight up. No babysitting. Actually Melo against Bosh and Amare against Joel ain’t that bad?

  14. Woodson gotta design more plays, agree with Hubie. all they do is high screen and roll and Melo post ups, fine but it’s pretty easy RO defend.

  15. Gideon Zaga:
    Woodson gotta design more plays, agree with Hubie. all they do is high screen and roll and Melo post ups, fine but it’s pretty easy RO defend.

    I’m hoping we see a bunch of new stuff in game 1.

  16. Hahaha yep Doug is the Tea Party on here.

    ruruland: He’s equal opportunity, which really messes with your head. Never know which side he’s on. Funny dude though.

  17. I want to see Amare play Blake straight up, practice for Bosh spice, he’s less physical but has a sweet jumper.

  18. I bet Melo wishes they put CP3 in, it’s not fair at all, the Clippers might as well be the bobcats without him.

  19. Wow we’ve come a long way, now even game threads are boring. Feel like I’m on an island here guys or do you guys only participate when you expect them to make boneheaded things. At least we’ll get Abbey vs THCj at the end, on that note Go Shump, Go Fields!

  20. You know, the way the offense is designed, it almost forces Carmelo to be an inefficient scorer. He gets the ball in a lot of iso situations and is the default bail out option, so he’s taking a lot of difficult shots on a nightly basis.

    Bobcats down 5.

  21. Gideon Zaga:
    Wow we’ve come a long way, now even game threads are boring. Feel like I’m on an island here guys or do you guys only participate when you expect them to make boneheaded things. At least we’ll get Abbey vs THCj at the end, on that note Go Shump, Go Fields!

    Watching Orlando, drinking Holy Hail Mary’s.

  22. massive:
    You know, the way the offense is designed, it almost forces Carmelo to be an inefficient scorer. He gets the ball in a lot of iso situations and is the default bail out option, so he’s taking a lot of difficult shots on a nightly basis.

    Bobcats down 5.

    Bullshit.

    Actually, this is what can happen when you play without a pg who can get into the lane (Melo’s never played with one who liked to pass). Still too stagnant though.

  23. It feels like Shumpert is doing a better job of getting around picks tonight. I do not know if it is because the Clippers are not setting strong picks or Shumpert has figured out the technique. If Shumpert has figured this one out, he will have solved the one obvious weakness in his defensive arsenal.

    If Shumpert > Rose/Noah PnR, then Knicks beat Bulls in 6 (in any round of the playoffs).

  24. ruruland: (

    If you really think about it, the announcers are saying Carmelo Anthony is having a good game, but he has 13 points on 13 shots. Running the offense through iso sets is very likely to make the player you run the offense through less efficient (it’s essentially trading volume for efficiency). He would be much more efficient if the offense was set up to have him dribble over screens and shoot open jumpers (OKC seems to do this a lot with KD). Just one man’s opinion.

  25. That is the third travel called on the Clippers tonight. Not really the product of good defense, more sloppiness from the Clippers.

  26. massive: If you really think about it, the announcers are saying Carmelo Anthony is having a good game, but he has 13 points on 13 shots. Running the offense through iso sets is very likely to make the player you run the offense through less efficient (it’s essentially trading volume for efficiency). He would be much more efficient if the offense was set up to have him dribble over screens and shoot open jumpers (OKC seems to do this a lot with KD). Just one man’s opinion.

    Would that still create double teams?

  27. Sixers and Orlando winning. Time to pull the starters. I want jorts, Jerome Jordan, Tony Douglas, Landry fields and Gadzuric out there now.

  28. The Bobcats are so worthless. Even in Michael Jordan’s retirement, he finds a way to screw the Knicks.

  29. Doug: Would that still create double teams?

    I guess not, but if you have Melo shooting open mid range jumpers, that’s a pretty high percentage shot.

  30. Didn’t Randy Foye absolutely light up the garden last year against the Knicks as well? What the hell is with this guy?

  31. art vandelay: Didn’t Randy Foye absolutely light up the garden last year against the Knicks as well? What the hell is with this guy?

    He’s from Jersey, I think. So it’s like a homecoming of sorts.

  32. Owen:
    Other than Andre Miller that is…

    Wrong. Not an in-the-lane, drive and kick point to pass point guard. Great scorer inside 12-13 feet. Best transition and lob passer in NBA. Not the same effect at all.

  33. massive: If you really think about it, the announcers are saying Carmelo Anthony is having a good game, but he has 13 points on 13 shots. Running the offense through iso sets is very likely to make the player you run the offense through less efficient (it’s essentially trading volume for efficiency). He would be much more efficient if the offense was set up to have him dribble over screens and shoot open jumpers (OKC seems to do this a lot with KD). Just one man’s opinion.

    That’s correct. But Iso is not really designed to create “volume.” That would just be volume of any play.

  34. First time in my life I can recall that I am rooting for the other team to win and not my Knicks.

    Fuck shump came up limping. Pull the fucking starters Woodson!!!!

  35. Shumpert limping.

    Guys, at this point just sit everyone who’s banged up. Losing out and landing in the 8-spot would be fine, but the main thing now is just get healthy, have a few practice sessions and hit the playoffs as close to full strength as you can.

  36. ruruland: That’s correct. But Iso is not really designed to create “volume.” That would just be volume of any play.

    If you constantly put a scorer in iso situations, he’s very likely to increase his usage and shot volume. Therefore, an offense designed to constantly place Carmelo Anthony in isolation situations is one that is also designed to lower his efficiency. However, how conducive to winning this game plan is remains to be seen.

  37. Nothing to play for now. Agree, get em all out of there. Free JJ – Jerome that is.

  38. Let’s go Sixers!
    Let’s go Clippers!
    (It’s kind of fun, letting my allegiances blow in the wind.)

  39. llcoolbp:
    Melo and Chandler still out there. Woodson is a fucking moron right now.

    agreed. what is he doing. what the fuck is he doing.

  40. massive: If you constantly put a scorer in iso situations, he’s very likely to increase his usage and shot volume. Therefore, an offense designed to constantly place Carmelo Anthony in isolation situations is one that is also designed to lower his efficiency. However, how conducive to winning this game plan is remains to be seen.

    There aren’t a lot of alternatives in the half-court without better point guard play. Look at how the Clippers are playing Davis. Begging him to shoot wide open jumpers. They know when he gets in the paint they’re in a lot of trouble.

    Teams really really clog it up in there because of the awful shooting from our guards. Baron can get in there when he’s right and the floor is spaced.

  41. Stat, who I love, is still a very weak link on this team. He is not a starting 4 for a playoff team. He needs to come off the bench as a 5, where he can dominate. Just curious, but how many of you folks out there would have a problem with this concept, particularly if you were earning 15 million dollars per year? I don’t even think it is a shit sandwich, since he is just recovering. He really doesn’t help the starting team at all at this point of his recovery.

  42. ephus:
    If they are keeping score, you play to win.

    Resting the starters in the 4th at Cleveland and now this?

  43. ruruland: There aren’t a lot of alternatives in the half-court without better point guard play. Look at how the Clippers are playing Davis. Begging him to shoot wide open jumpers. They know when he gets in the paint they’re in a lot of trouble.

    Teams really really clog it up in there because of the awful shooting from our guards. Baron can get in there when he’s right and the floor is spaced.

    Oh, I’m not placing any blame on Melo. I totally agree that there’s almost no other consistent way of scoring right now, but what I’m saying is that the team’s offensive philosophy isn’t going to make Melo’s WS/48 any prettier.

  44. Robert Silverman: Why do you want them out? To try to get Chicago or b/c you’re worried about an injury?

    Both. No win right now. You aren’t going to get better with the energy these guys are playing with.

  45. massive: Oh, I’m not placing any blame on Melo. I totally agree that there’s almost no other consistent way of scoring right now, but what I’m saying is that the team’s offensive philosophy isn’t going to make Melo’s WS/48 any prettier.

    I’ve been saying that for years.

  46. ruruland: Resting the starters in the 4th at Cleveland and now this?

    Given the stinker that the Knicks’ starters had thrown up in Cleveland, there was no reason to put them back in. I am not saying you have to keep the starters in, but whoever is in the game has to be playing to win. Losing is a sickness, as contagious as bubonic plague.

  47. Woodson definite need watch minutes on BD. Shump shouldn’t come back, need that ankle nice and healed.

  48. ruruland: I’ve been saying that for years.

    But you originally called bullshit lol. I’m glad I’m not the only one who thinks this, though. However, I think we need to use Melo like OKC uses Durant. For the NBA’s leading scorer 3 years running, he sure as hell gets a lot of open looks at the basket.

  49. ephus: Given the stinker that the Knicks’ starters had thrown up in Cleveland, there was no reason to put them back in.I am not saying you have to keep the starters in, but whoever is in the game has to be playing to win.Losing is a sickness, as contagious as bubonic plague.

    Yeah, I agree with that. Which is why losing while actually playing the starters in the 4th would be awful. The team already has momentum. They can rationalize away a 4th quarter with the scrubs in.

    But, they’re not playing with a playoff level energy right now so I don’t see it translating if they win.

    Moreover, they’ve beaten Chicago in a playoff- intensity game this year. There’s a blueprint and muscle memory there that you always ses translate from reg. season to postseason.

    I initially posted that they should fire on all cylinders tonight, but they haven’t played hard.

    No win situation playing the top guys in the 4th. Trying to lose against Charlotte will be very hard, but you’ve got to try.

  50. massive: But you originally called bullshit lol. I’m glad I’m not the only one who thinks this, though. However, I think we need to use Melo like OKC uses Durant. For the NBA’s leading scorer 3 years running, he sure as hell gets a lot of open looks at the basket.

    I was being sarcastic.

  51. Doug:
    I agree with Robert. Tanking is bad juju.

    Agreed, and if we lost tonight there’s no way in hell Philly is beating Detroit tomorrow anyway. Play to win, go into playoffs winning 5 of your last 6

  52. Best game of the season for Smith? It is in the top three, but probably behind the 3 point barrage that he and Novak launched last week against the Celtics.

  53. Great to go in to the playoffs with momentum. However if Chandler/Amare/Shump/Smith/any of the regular rotation gets hurt in a meaningless game, how much momentum does that kill?

    Doug: I agree with Robert. Tanking is bad juju.

  54. “Wrong. Not an in-the-lane, drive and kick point to pass point guard. Great scorer inside 12-13 feet. Best transition and lob passer in NBA. Not the same effect at all.”

    So, he has had Andre Miller, Allan Iverson, and Chauncey Billups. But never an “in-the-lane, drive and kick point to pass point guard.”

    Got it…

  55. So assuming we win tonight…if we win tomorrow, weget Miami. If we lose, we get Chicago. People say Chicago is the easier match up and I guess that is true. But at the same time, if we intentionally tank the game tomorrow and rest our starters, is it bad karma to do this to get Chicago?

    I guess either way, it is what it is. Playoffs!

    http://tinyurl.com/2012KnicksPlayoffs

  56. Owen:
    “Wrong. Not an in-the-lane, drive and kick point to pass point guard. Great scorer inside 12-13 feet. Best transition and lob passer in NBA. Not the same effect at all.”

    So, he has had Andre Miller, Allan Iverson, and Chauncey Billups. But never an “in-the-lane, drive and kick point to pass point guard.”

    Got it…

    You understand Allen Iverson and Chauncey Billups were consistently among the lowest in assist percentage among “point guard”, correct?

  57. And that is the yin and the yang of JR Smith. Make a 3 pointer to quell the Clippers’ momentum, then foul a 3 point shooter to let the Clippers back into it.

  58. Dudes, let’s drop the whining and cowering, we’re playing Miami or Chicago. Think of it as being on the express train to the ECFs.

  59. llcoolbp: Agreed. He should lose his job to Phil Jackson for this 4th quarter and the one in Cleveland.

    He went half-way in both games. Makes absolutely no sense.

  60. Shump is now in. And definitely grimacing. They reported that he turned his ankle again. Now he is again. This is just plain dumb. Woodson has lost all my respect.

  61. They are trying to win without Chandler being overworked. It’s pretty simple. This is only close because of the BS foul call on the Foye 3.

  62. All you guys that want the heat, now you have it. I have a bad feeling about that series. Lebron and wade are going to come out looking for blood. I sense a big 4 game sweep. Instead we could have fought a war with the bulls. And if we beat them gone into the second round with a big moral boost with Lin coming back. We can kiss all that goodbye.

  63. Let me ask all the anti-tank folks something: We rest everyone tomorrow because it’s a meaningless game, what do you call that and how is different from what (should) have happened tonight?

  64. I know that this might put me in the minority, but i am glad that the Knicks won. If winning brings problems, those are the problems I want to deal with.

  65. ruruland: He went half-way in both games. Makes absolutely no sense.

    No sense at all. Putting Shump back in? What for? Chandler re-entering the game? Damn! Putting players at risk in what really should be a scrimmage game at that point just makes NO SENSE. I think everyone here has been singing Woody’s praises and rightfully so. I’m not calling for playing the Zen Master card either. But somebody needs to tell Woodson to protect his assets for the playoffs.

  66. I don’t believe in backing into the playoffs. I think momentum is everything and a hot team is capable of anything. If you set yourself up to lose one game, you’re taking your foot off the gas. Who knows what kind of effect that sort of intentional non-competitiveness has on the players.

  67. Just to be clear I’m not suggesting tanking for playoff position, but just guarding against injury. For the record the Heat scare me more than the Bulls. But it is what it is. I just want my team healthy and ready.

  68. The game got a little out of hand and Chandler had to go up for a few extra rebounds. Relax.

    You’ll be glad he didn’t play big mins in the reg. season when he’s juiced against the Heat (or Bulls).

  69. “You understand Allen Iverson and Chauncey Billups were consistently among the lowest in assist percentage among “point guard”, correct?”

    I guess Iverson and Billups didn’t draw the defense….

    Ok, I get it, all we need to do is pair Melo with a top 5 point guard and then his effiiciency will be elite….

  70. I don’t expect we win a series against Heat, but hope we help fatigue their ass. I would be happy with 2 wins. Heat got play Knicks, Indy, Bulls, and then guess OKC. As long don’t win championship that still bring a little bit of joy.

  71. I thought putting Shump out there for more than that one critical defensive possession was dicey. But I’m fine with Chandler playing the last few minutes of the game if he is adamant about getting back in.

  72. I want them to play hard through the end because this team needs all the reps it can get together.
    They need to keep developing. First time in a while they have almost all their guys. Reps, reps, reps.

  73. I know Knicks fans are desperate, but at the end of the day, if you want to have a championship mentality, you can’t be ducking teams. We are a neophyte PG away from having a full, relatively healthy roster going into the playoffs. We’re heading into the playoffs on a roll, peaking at just the right time. If we are going to beat the Heat, now’s the time.

  74. The Bobcats are well the Bobcats, we can sit our starting 5 and still win bro. No need to get injured like Manu did last year.

    ruruland:
    Let me ask all the anti-tank folks something: We rest everyone tomorrow because it’s a meaningless game, what do you call that and how is different from what (should) have happened tonight?

  75. Does anyone have any idea what Jerome Jordan is doing wrong? He’s not much this year (and probably next year as well) but DeAndre Jordan wasn’t noteworthy at all in his 1st 3 years. Now he’s a pretty good center.

  76. Can I please take a stab at writing a piece of the update on this one??? Here goes…..just cut and paste:

    “Hi, Dan”

  77. Hey a more important matter is that WOODSON NEEDS TO INSTALL A ZONE! I can’t believe they haven’t talked about this enough. Earlier in the year Boston played Miami, got blown out in the first three quartets but in the 4th Doc switched to a zone d and guess what the game went down to the wire. I don’t know what it is with Miami and zones but someone should send a raven to Woodson or a blue tweety bird as you guys call it nowadays.

  78. Shad0wF0x:
    Does anyone have any idea what Jerome Jordan is doing wrong? He’s not much this year (and probably next year as well) but DeAndre Jordan wasn’t noteworthy at all in his 1st 3 years. Now he’s a pretty good center.

    Gadzuric needed to play today to be playoff eligible, might as well give him some decent burn.

  79. Well bring on the heat. Hopefully it’s the Sunday afternoon game. No better excuse to avoid going to church with my wife then the heat and Knicks on ABC.

    We have 3 days to rest up mind and body. Let’s hope Chandler gets these guys pumped up. He’s the key because he remembers what it was like to beat the heatles.

  80. Gideon Zaga:
    Hey a more important matter is that WOODSON NEEDS TO INSTALL A ZONE! I can’t believe they haven’t talked about this enough. Earlier in the year Boston played Miami, got blown out in the first three quartets but in the 4th Doc switched to a zone d and guess what the game went down to the wire. I don’t know what it is with Miami and zones but someone should send a raven to Woodson or a blue tweety bird as you guys call it nowadays.

    Wow I actually agree with you. I watch alot Cuse college basketball so I’ve seen how effective can be. Every NBA should have in their team repertoire. If having trouble man-to-man just good thing switch help confuse the offense.

  81. Exactly and fact of the matter is MIA scores most of it’s point at the basket so I say pack it in and let’s see how Lebrob has improved from last year. This is definitely a bad meets evil matchup and we desperately need a ZONE scheme.

    JC Knickfan: Wow I actually agree with you.I watch alot Cuse college basketball so I’ve seen how effective can be.Every NBA should have in their team repertoire. If having trouble man-to-man just good thing switch help confuse the offense.

  82. Gideon Zaga:
    Exactly and fact of the matter is MIA scores most of it’s point at the basket so I say pack it in and let’s see how Lebrob has improved from last year. This is definitely a bad meets evil matchup and we desperately need a ZONE scheme.

    You email Knick front office ask please make sure Mr. Woodson put some zone defense in. Unless we actually winning I would disappointed in Woodson if doesn’t try it at least.

  83. I know Knicks fans are desperate, but at the end of the day, if you want to have a championship mentality, you can’t be ducking teams.

    The 1999 Knicks tried to drop to #8 to face Miami in 1999 and they went to the NBA Finals. Did they not have the championship mentality?

  84. I’ll chime in from Day 2 of having a newborn. (I was the guy taking his prego wife to dive bars in Brooklyn during the dark days of the MSG blackout). No tanking. Win out. Get reps. Peak now. Go after the best in the Heat. Fuck them.

  85. Brian Cronin:
    The format is 2-2-1-1-1 until the Finals, when it becomes 2-3-2.

    NBA should change that by now. Players travel luxury with charter planes. Also think it’s fairer to play 2-2-1-1-1.

  86. Brian Cronin: The 1999 Knicks tried to drop to #8 to face Miami in 1999 and they went to the NBA Finals. Did they not have the championship mentality?

    Exactly! Really wish they just sat everyone midway through the 3rd. The clippers wanted to win and would have against the C team. Van gundy had the balls and wherewithal to go for the better match up in 99. Woodson just packed his bag out of NYC.

  87. cgreene:
    I’ll chime in from Day 2 of having a newborn.(I was the guy taking his prego wife to dive bars in Brooklyn during the dark days of the MSG blackout).No tanking.Win out.Get reps.Peak now.Go after the best in the Heat.Fuck them.

    Congrats. I’m 6 months in with mine. She already watches every knick game with me.

  88. NBA should change that by now. Players travel luxury with charter planes. Also think it’s fairer to play 2-2-1-1-1.

    I believe the logic is that it is not for the players, but rather for the increased media coverage. This way the media only needs to set up three times as opposed to five times. It is not a big deal during the early rounds when the coverage is smaller, but it becomes a bigger deal with the increased media coverage in the Finals. All the hotel bookings, the traveling, etc. The League is all about making media happy (since they pay them billions of dollars for the TV rights).

    There is also the conspiracy theory that giving the road team three games in a row gives you better odds for a longer series (which the NBA obviously always wants), but I think that is just that, a theory.

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