2012 Game Thread: Knicks v. ‘Ptors

For all your in-game thoughts, eh. Beat them Hosers!

And if you’re in a more serious vein, take a look at my scribbling from earlier today on Trayvon Martin and Amar’e Stoudemire, who evidently wore his hoodie during tonight’s shootaround in solidarity. (H/T to the great Seth Rosenthal of Postingandtoasting.com)

 

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Robert Silverman

Hey, did you know that in addition to banging the keys here and occasionally for the NY Times and at ESPN, Robert is a playwright, an actor and a wand'ring mendicant/gadfly? He also once wrestled a bear...and lost.

292 thoughts to “2012 Game Thread: Knicks v. ‘Ptors”

  1. Raptors attacking inside against a weak Knicks interior D. Paying dividends early.

  2. GODDAMMIT WOODY BENCH FIELDS.

    We cannot have a starting lineup with NO three point threat.

  3. I like that move by STAT. Lin keeps getting hit and somebody needs to put someone on the floor.

  4. very bad start. Friendly whistle keeping us in this. That’s four NY free throws off questionable calls.

  5. David Crockett:
    STAT looks like he came to play.Other folks need to get engaged.

    While we were flat in the opening minutes, the energy and effort seem to be there now. Melo and Fields just can’t anything right now.

  6. Come on guys. Shut your mouths. It’s clear the officials don’t want to hear it tonight.

  7. Can you imagine a jump-shooting contest between Fields, Melo and BD?? First one to make 10 wins, might take an hour for that contest to finish.

  8. You know Baron wanted to shoot that last one. Dude’s such a good passer. Really needs to stop looking for his own shot.

  9. Looks like a classic Knicks letdown game against a shit team.

    Too bad we exhausted our allowance and then some earlier

  10. You can see Melo coming out firing, itching to have one of those 35 point games of old.

    Looks like he can’t do it. We should be riding Amare now that he’s finally back from the dead while Melo figures his jumpshot out

  11. dogrufus:
    Looks like a classic Knicks letdown game against a shit team.

    Too bad we exhausted our allowance and then some earlier

    what an awful loss this would be….to avoid 7 or 8 seed, they literally cannot afford to lose any games from here on out to games they decidedly should win….

  12. Anyone know what Baron did to get the technical? The broadcast I’m watching didn’t say.

  13. art vandelay: what an awful loss this would be….to avoid 7 or 8 seed, they literally cannot afford to lose any games from here on out to games they decidedly should win….

    meant to say to TEAMS (not games) they decidedly should BEAT

  14. This to me is the big long-term question about this team:

    How much D are we willing to play on nights when the shot’s not falling and we have a few turnovers? Are we gonna chuck our way back into it or keep getting stops.

  15. Robert Silverman:
    Really worried about this game…

    Let’s think about it this way:
    Maybe the Knicks decided to have the 3rd quarter slump in the 1st quarter to get it out of the way early.

  16. limpidgimp:
    Anyone know what Baron did to get the technical? The broadcast I’m watching didn’t say.

    Kept jawing with the official who called the palming violation.

  17. David Crockett: He was waiting for Jorts to cut the whole time.

    I don’t think Jorts realized it. Semi-broken looking imho but with a happy ending.

  18. already down double digits…this looks a lot like those dallas/san antonio games of the 6-game losing streak to me.

  19. Slower pace definitely hurts Novak. He can’t get the same space in the halfcourt.

  20. I understand Novak is playing the stretch 4 but come on. The guy is getting brutalized on the boards. This particular lineup is a disaster.

  21. This team is really missing Jared Jeffries, they Jorts and Novak are terrible rim defenders, they’re just allowing open lanes to the rim right now.

  22. dogrufus:
    Tyson looking more like one of the older T-800 models today

    Think it’s still the wrist. That’s the second botched pass this game, right?

  23. dogrufus:
    Tyson looking more like one of the older T-800 models today

    haha….how did he not just stuff that one home?

  24. dogrufus:
    Tyson looking more like one of the older T-800 models today

    Honestly he’s been fairly inconsistent the past few games. Not totally surprising he got benched against Philly, he’s not playing as aggressively as he was earlier in the year.

  25. dogrufus:
    Amare still looking impressive

    If he can keep this up, the Knicks have by far the best big men in the Eastern Conference. That would be huge, espeically if Melo ever learns how to make a jumper.

  26. Seriously Woody.. why are you not playing Smith, our only deep threat who isn’t a defensive liability, against the zone?

  27. Baron looks good early.
    Baron and Calderon full contact a few times chasing loose balls.

  28. Jesus, guys, hit an open shot. This is absurd. 13 for 37 and it is not like the Raptors are playing suffocating D.

  29. I didn’t realize hip checks are legal in basketball. These refs are horrible.

  30. Degree_Absolute:
    Jesus, guys, hit an open shot.This is absurd.13 for 37 and it is not like the Raptors are playing suffocating D.

    This is what happens when your starting lineup includes no 3 point shooters, and Smith and Novak hardly get burn.,

  31. refs are really letting them play out there….wow….amazing how physical this game has been on both ends, and they have been swallowing the whistles…at least they have been relatively fair and consistent thus far.

    and yes, the offense is an utter joke thus far….Melo needs to step up and actually look like a top-flight all-star-level scorer…

  32. Guys, bad shooting halves happen, if the expectation is that the Knicks play to the best of their abilities for the rest of the season then well…

  33. I think they need to pick up the pace against this team…try to break the zone…push the ball…they clearly can’t shoot at all tonight thus far.

  34. We cant we finish at to the ball at the rim tonite?
    Field misses two easy layup. Stats and Chandler too.

  35. I feel like I’m watching college basketball. Both teams just missing easy shots and making bad turnovers.

  36. Someone tell the Knicks that the baskets are 10 CANADIAN feet high. They need to make the adjustment.

  37. dogrufus:
    Jeremy just did that Chris Paul ball-rolling thing to make sure we got a 2 for 1!

    yes, and fields promptly turned it over….10 TOs at the half…not good.

  38. Kikuchiyo:
    Someone tell the Knicks that the baskets are 10 CANADIAN feet high. They need to make the adjustment.

    You have the early lead for comment of the night.

  39. What exactly does Fields do other than make transition layups? He’s such a worthless player, how can Chandler shoot better than him?

  40. Degree_Absolute:
    Wow, Melo is 5 for 11 from the field?

    All on layups. Give him credit he cant hit a jumper and he knows it but he is driving and crashing the offensive boards for easy baskets.

  41. BigBlueAL: All on layups.Give him credit he cant hit a jumper and he knows it but he is driving and crashing the offensive boards for easy baskets.

    Seriously he’s only taking good shots, players have had poor shooting stretches before but it’s really hard to tell him to pass up wide open 3’s.

  42. Novak with the buzzer-beater!!

    Only down 3 at the half, Knicks should still win this game.

  43. After playing an awful first half, we still end up down only by 3 thanks to Novak. Wow we dodged a bullet in the first. Easily could have been down 10 right now.

  44. Lin picking up where he left off in the first three quarters @ Philly.

    1-5 in the 1st half. Guess he’s saving his best for last, again.

  45. Degree_Absolute:
    Wow, Melo is 5 for 11 from the field?

    He’s been finishing everything at the rim but missing every jumpshot horribly.

    Still appears to be playing hard and giving effort, just annoying that a historically solid midrange and ok three point shooter has been so consistently terirble there.

  46. Also I know Knicks fans aren’t used to rooting for legit teams, but all of the top teams tend to play a little slowly in the first half before taking off in the 4th quarter. Only Chicago goes all out the full game, which is why they have the best record in the league despite a lack of any major talent with Rose injured. Pretty much no contender in the history of the league has taken road games against sub .500 teams as seriously as a playoff game.

  47. Juany8:
    Also I know Knicks fans aren’t used to rooting for legit teams, but all of the top teams tend to play a little slowly in the first half before taking off in the 4th quarter. Only Chicago goes all out the full game, which is why they have the best record in the league despite a lack of any major talent with Rose injured. Pretty much no contender in the history of the league has taken road games against sub .500 teams as seriously as a playoff game.

    Michael Jordan’s Bulls beg to differ.

  48. Chandler 0-3 from the field.

    Pretty sure that’s the first time i’ve seen him with less than 2 makes on 3 attempts.

    The T-800 is still a workhorse (9 rebs 2 blks)

    Good thing our next best rolling big is also one of the best

  49. Juany8:
    Also I know Knicks fans aren’t used to rooting for legit teams, but all of the top teams tend to play a little slowly in the first half before taking off in the 4th quarter. Only Chicago goes all out the full game, which is why they have the best record in the league despite a lack of any major talent with Rose injured. Pretty much no contender in the history of the league has taken road games against sub .500 teams as seriously as a playoff game.

    Yeah, but these guys haven’t earned the right to think of themselves as a top team. They don’t have a top record. They could easily fall out of the playoff race if they don’t play out of their minds.

  50. I love Clyde and all, but he seems off his game tonight. That was a weird comment on the Knicks rolling the ball up the floor with 35 seconds left. Also, someone needs to point out to him that when you’re losing, it’s not always because of bad defense, tonight it’s atrocious turnovers and horrible shooting.

    Down 3 after that offensive (pun intended) display? I’ll take it.

  51. Agree with BBA in general. Terrible shooting and lack of aggressiveness on offense. Lin will penetrate more and the Knicks will shoot better. Too much switching on D for my taste, but Raptors really didn’t make the Knicks pay. I think we are in for a different second half for our boys. I have some concerns with Chandler. I really think the guy has a broken hand (like a boxer’s fracture or something) and is beasting through it. Definitely miss JJ. He would have drawn a couple/three charges already. Harrelson not playing great D, which is surprising. Is he weaning off the Skoal? Start chewing again Jorts. Try the Beechnut.

  52. Ronny Turiaf getting alot of minutes off the bench early on with the Heat tonight.

  53. BigBlueAL:
    Ronny Turiaf getting alot of minutes off the bench early on with the Heat tonight.

    How long until he is out with some bizarre fracture? I gave him 2 games, max.

  54. Mulligan:
    Kinda getting the impression that Aaron Gray has a lot of anger inside him.

    kinda getting the impression we will lose this game tonight….just completely discombobulated offensively.

  55. Looks like the Knicks want to end this talk about winning the division.

    BTW, Bucks blowing out the Bobcats in Charlotte tonight.

  56. art vandelay: kinda getting the impression we will lose this game tonight….just completely discombobulated offensively.

    Starting to agree. :(

  57. Same old Knicks…should have known to expect a horrific letdown after that Philly win…lack of leadership…let’s see if they cut the lead down to 1 only to lose…

    even if we got stops not sure we could score enough points to win

  58. Well, game over

    It was fun to entertain thoughts of winning the atlantic, but looks like it’s back to 1st round sweep as the best possible outcome

  59. Oh well. You can’t win all of them. Would have been nice to get to .500 though.

  60. Anyone wish they would kill the Robert Randolph thing? Im not trying to cost anyone their job but the Knicks never win Friday Night Knicks games ever.

  61. you would think getting back to .500 would be the kind of thing that would get them up for a game, but apparently not…

  62. Looks like Woodson has reached his “sell by” date.

    Time for a new coach.

  63. Clyde finally realizes it’s the 46 points in 3 quarters, not the defense, that stinks here.

  64. Between the boooring play by play and the awful Knick play, I’m calling it a night.

  65. Holy shit, stop fouling people. I get the worthless Raptors feed. Is Woodson yelling at anyone or has he given up like this Knicks team did about 20 minutes ago?

  66. Kikuchiyo:
    Clyde finally realizes it’s the 46 points in 3 quarters, not the defense, that stinks here.

    Okay, the defense stinks too.

  67. f.l.o.: one (likely) loss and u are asking for a new coach ?

    If each coaching change is worth 5-6 subsequent consecutive wins, six more coaching changes between now and the end of the playoffs would pretty much guarantee a title.

  68. F’s all around in the recap. Worst performance of the season thus far and that is saying something.

  69. They need to beat this team. Not much time left in the season. Time for Melo to catch fire.

  70. Every time the Knicks get on the verge of going over .500 they lose to a sorry ass team.

  71. When was the last time Philly, Mil, Boston, Ind lost to one of the bottom half teams in the league. They just don’t really do it and we do and that’s why we aren’t that good. We just lose too many bad games. End of story.

  72. Down by 13 point with 8 min to go. If was against better than the Craptors we would be behind by at least 30 points.

  73. Imagine how bad our 3-point shooting % would be this season without Novak? I think we might break an all-time record for worst team 3-point % if we didn’t have him…he singlehandedly keeps the team as a whole shooting a woeful 30% for the year!

  74. BigBlueAL:
    Back to hoping Knicks just grab the 8th seed and dont get swept in 1st round :-(

    They just can’t get over .500 this season….

  75. BigBlueAL: Back to hoping Knicks just grab the 8th seed and dont get swept in 1st round :-(

    At least the 76ers are making a comeback vs Boston. Now its clear we root for Philly.

  76. Gary Forbes, flat tax advocate, Donte Greene Memorial Award winner of the night.

  77. If we were in the middle of the playoff pack you could shrug off a game like this and move on, but we’re at the point where we have to win every single winnable game.

    Fire Woodson!

  78. The Raptors look like they are not satisfied with a 20 point lead. They want blow out the Knicks

  79. Looks like going back to a 6 game losing streak now, LOL, why do they always KEEP OUR HOPES up. They will likely lose to Detroit, Greg Monroe gonna light them all up.

  80. One of the first bball phrases my Dad taught me in the 80s was “extensive gar-bage time”

  81. The bucks at least beat teams they’re supposed to beat. I really don’t think we’re making the playoffs.

  82. Hubris hurting the Raptors. Up 20 plus with under 3 minutes to play and DeRozan goes down hard.

  83. Alan Hahn continues to rationalize this loss as being a case of the Knicks missing shots. The difference was EFFORT. We gave up a ton of layups as we have all season, and we didn’t rebound. Knicks outrebounded overall, but even more improtantly, outrebounded on the O-boards despite missing many more shots (thus more o-board opportunities).

  84. TheXman:
    The bucks at least beat teams they’re supposed to beat.I really don’t think we’re making the playoffs.

    Hey Xman, where you been? Haven’t heard from you in like, 5 games.

  85. Z-man:
    Hopefully just one of those nights

    Nope every loss is cause for firing a coach remember? Seriously though, Woodson needs to tell the whole team to just practice shooting free throws. Also, start sending baked goods to the refs or something cause the calls the past few games have been downright pathetic.

  86. d-mar:
    You can’t have much worse a game than JR had tonight, completely useless.

    Landry Fields would argue otherwise… Such a waste of minutes

  87. Maybe we should start our own Forbes 100 list, scrubs like Gary Forbes who have career nights vs. the Knicks.

  88. max fisher-cohen:
    Alan Hahn continues to rationalize this loss as being a case of the Knicks missing shots. The difference was EFFORT. We gave up a ton of layups as we have all season, and we didn’t rebound. Knicks outrebounded overall, but even more improtantly, outrebounded on the O-boards despite missing many more shots (thus more o-board opportunities).

    Difference was effort? C’mon, man. That’s insane.

    Even decent teams are going to feed off of leads and get comfortable going for multiple efforts.
    That’s momentum energy.

    That was one of the worst shooting displays I’ve seen with good looks.

    Truly bizarre. Will sit back and watch the overreactions until Monday.

    Shooting really hasn’t been there throughout this stretch. I’d be more worried about that.

  89. max fisher-cohen:
    Alan Hahn continues to rationalize this loss as being a case of the Knicks missing shots. The difference was EFFORT. We gave up a ton of layups as we have all season, and we didn’t rebound. Knicks outrebounded overall, but even more improtantly, outrebounded on the O-boards despite missing many more shots (thus more o-board opportunities).

    Agreed. What do you expect though? He is part of the MSG PR machine. The same machine that played Sting’s “Brand New Day” going into commercial breaks during the Knicks broadcast the day after D’Antoni peaced to subliminally convince Knicks fans things would be OK.

  90. Lithium? For them or for me. It’s one of those nights that the Knicks needed to win. Wow.

  91. ruruland: Difference was effort? C’mon, man. That’s insane.

    Even decent teams are going to feed off of leads and get comfortable going for multiple efforts.
    That’s momentum energy.

    That was one of the worst shooting displays I’ve seen with good looks.

    Truly bizarre.Will sit back and watch the overreactions until Monday.

    Shooting really hasn’t been there throughout this stretch. I’d be more worried about that.

    Also, Jeffries is easily the MVP of the bench. Jorts and Novak just kept giving up layup after layup (to be fair, Chandler was pretty bad this game too). The Bucks game is a much bigger deal, if the Knicks get the exact same result then it’s time to worry, if the had shot even their (terrible) season average on free throws and 3’s tonight they might have won.

  92. Degree_Absolute: Agreed.What do you expect though?He is part of the MSG PR machine.The same machine that played Sting’s “Brand New Day” going into commercial breaks during the Knicks broadcast the day after D’Antoni peaced to subliminally convince Knicks fans things would be OK.

    How long were you sitting on your hands waiting to bring back the MDA deal?

  93. JLam:
    Oh Well,the roller coaster continues.

    Giants fans can hope this was the Redskins game, right? It’s all gravy from here on out.

  94. Juany8: Also, Jeffries is easily the MVP of the bench. Jorts and Novak just kept giving up layup after layup (to be fair, Chandler was pretty bad this game too). The Bucks game is a much bigger deal, if the Knicks get the exact same result then it’s time to worry, if the had shot even their (terrible) season average on free throws and 3?s tonight they might have won.

    They had some defensive breakdowns, but considering the kind of whistle the Raptors were getting, and almost unlimited opportunities to transition points off rebounds and turnovers, 96 points isn’t bad.

    That was just unbelievably bad shooting, like you said.

  95. Kikuchiyo: Giants fans can hope this was the Redskins game, right? It’s all gravy from here on out.

    I’m at the point where I’m actually really concerned about Melo, even JR. This is an insane drop-off… They are getting really solid looks.

  96. I know it was against Chicago, but the Magic, an excellent shooting team, scored 59 points against the Bulls on a road trip.

    These deals happen, but we’re looking at 96 minutes of truly awful shooting.

  97. The most troubling thing for the Knicks on offense was that they were being given 3 point shots and either passing them up, or missing them badly. When the ball moves to a wide open guard at the 3 point line and he does not shoot and the defense does not close out hard, nothing else is going to work.

  98. max fisher-cohen:
    Alan Hahn continues to rationalize this loss as being a case of the Knicks missing shots. The difference was EFFORT. We gave up a ton of layups as we have all season, and we didn’t rebound. Knicks outrebounded overall, but even more improtantly, outrebounded on the O-boards despite missing many more shots (thus more o-board opportunities).

    ruruland: Difference was effort? C’mon, man. That’s insane.

    Even decent teams are going to feed off of leads and get comfortable going for multiple efforts.

    Max, you’re right. Wtih two minutes left in the game, down by 20, the knicks looked like they really wanted to win the game.
    Uhhh. Too late guys. Gotta play like you want to win – all game long!

    Ruru, make all the rationalizations you want, but the knicks did not step up the intensity.
    You’re right, the knicks shot bad – because they played like they were just going through the motions. Cause and effect, like everything else in life.
    The difference is the Toronto coach got his players to play like hell coming out of the half so a lot of good things happened.
    It’s not accidental, it’s not random, and it’s not determined by god. It’s determined by the guys on the court.

  99. Ruru, we missed some easy shots tonight, but they were the difference between a 17 point loss and a 10 point loss. We shot just as badly vs. Philly and still won the game because we battled. We controlled the interior and the boards. Last game vs. Toronto, we controlled the offense glass and got 12 more o-rebounds for them. Tonight, they got 2 more than us. That’s a 14 possessions swing. If you compared to O-rebound percentages of the 2 games, it’d be an even bigger difference. Those rebounds usually lead to easy putbacks. If we had dominated the boards like that and prevented the layup line, this could have been a 5-10 point win, in spite of the terrible shooting.

    GOod teams control what they can control — effort. Bad teams don’t. Bad teams let a missed shot on O or a tough make by the other team bring them down. Tonight, the Knicks played like a bad team. I’m not saying this is an indication that the Knicks are going down the tubes. I’m saying that tonight, we weren’t just a team missing shots — we were a bad team. That doesn’t make it so that we are doomed to play like this the rest of the season. It just means that we were bad tonight, and all teams play bad games.

  100. ephus:
    The most troubling thing for the Knicks on offense was that they were being given 3 point shots and either passing them up, or missing them badly.When the ball moves to a wide open guard at the 3 point line and he does not shoot and the defense does not close out hard, nothing else is going to work.

    What do you expect when a team is shooting like that? You work to get easier shots at the basket…..and in turn you force stuff. But it wasn’t just the free throws and open jumpers, it was stuff around the rim from Chandler and everyone else.

  101. ruruland: I’m at the point where I’m actually really concerned about Melo, even JR. This is an insane drop-off… They are getting really solid looks.

    I think I saw Melo flex the wrist at one point tonight in second half…..in a bit of discomfort.

  102. To add, it’s a matter of accountability. If you’ve played ball, you know the lazy players write off losses as “So and so made shots” or “if I’d only my jumper had been on” rather than looking at what they could have controlled. Sure, sometimes you lose despite battling. The philly game very easily could have been an example of that, but this game was not.

  103. ruruland: How long were you sitting on your hands waiting to bring back the MDA deal?

    LOL, and now Melo’s personal PR machine. Your rationalizations are really getting boring. They stopped trying with about eight minutes left in the third quarter.

  104. HORRIBLE GAME!! PRETTY MUCH EVERY KNICKS PLAYED CRAPPY!! MAYBE THEY PARTIED TOO MUCH AFTER BEATING PACERS AND WAS TIRED???

  105. Hey, it’s not easy to play intense for four quarters every night, but that’s what bad dogs do.

    Tonight was a perfect opportunity to step up and be the man. the knicks really needed that. Instead he looked like a girl out there.

    Note to Melo: the “man” is not the guy who takes the most shots. It’s the guy that carries the team on his back when the going gets tough.

  106. I think the knicks shouldn’t even watch that tape..that was one of the worst shooting/dumb turnover games I have ever witnessed..I think it’s good they play tommorow so they can take out aggression on the pistons…melo is ice cold I’m convinced his wrist is still bad…Lin has also entered a bit of a shooting slump

  107. hoolahoop:
    Max, you’re right. Wtih two minutes left in the game, down by 20, the knicks looked like they really wanted to win the game.
    Uhhh. Too late guys. Gotta play like you want to win – all game long!

    Ruru, make all the rationalizations you want, but the knicks did not step up the intensity.
    You’re right, the knicks shot bad – because they played like they were just going through the motions. Cause and effect, like everything else in life.
    The difference is the Toronto coach got his players to play like hell coming out of the half so a lot of good things happened.
    It’s not accidental, it’s not random, and it’s not determined by god. It’s determined by the guys on the court.

    Wow, wondered where you’d been.

    Well, you’re not always going to annihilate a team defensively, as the Knicks did in Philly. No team in this league, not even good teams like the Knicks fighting for the playoffs, are going to come out with the most intensity every night.

    I don’t think the effort was terrible. 96 points in a 100+ possession game is quite good. It wasn;t their best defensive effort, but when you’re shooting like that and never playing the game with momentum (they had a chance on that blown call) it’s very difficult to make that spirited run.

    But you’re going to think whatever you want to think and frame it however to fit your preconceived narrative.

  108. AND RAPTORS LOST TO CHARLOTTE THE OTHER DAY!! THEY ARE REALLY BAD AND THEY BEAT KNICKS BY ALMOST 20 PTS!! WHAT DOES THAT SAY ABOUT KNICKS??

  109. Melo played well in every aspect besides shooting so what are you talking about it was def a team loss…chanldler alone left like 10 points @ the rim

    hoolahoop:
    Hey, it’s not easy to play intense for four quarters every night, but that’s what bad dogs do.

    Tonight was a perfect opportunity to step up and be the man. the knicks really needed that. Instead he looked like a girl out there.

    Note to Melo: the “man” is not the guy who takes the most shots. It’s the guy that carries the team on his back when the going gets tough.

  110. Three other troubling issues:

    1. The Knicks lost at least four baskets on charges. ‘Melo coming from the wing, Baron Davis overpassing on the fast break (which was a bad call because the defender was inside the dotted line), and at least two others.

    2. Really bad foulshooting by the Knicks. Amar’e was the primary offender. In the 3rd quarter, Amar’e missed two in a row, including a near airball.

    3. First game this year where Chandler looked awful on offense with no excuse from the big wrist brace.

    When the grades are given out for tonight, no one should get better than a C, and many worse.

  111. Don’t rationalize this loss. You don’t need to blame any individual player either. Even if our boys played better D (lots of shitty ineffective switching), it would not have mattered. The offense was abysmal. Stars need to perform or they’re planets. This was a gut-check (cliche warning, trite but true) step up game and no one stepped up. It was easily winnable. It’s a total disgusting buzz kill subjectively and remember this game about a month from now. No pride. These guys are making up to $40,000.00 per freaking day and we criticize teachers who make that a year because they don’t try hard enough. Sorry for the rant, but Jesus.

  112. Degree_Absolute: LOL, and now Melo’s personal PR machine. Your rationalizations are really getting boring.They stopped trying with about eight minutes left in the third quarter.

    Actually, they made their run in the early part of their fourth quarter but still couldn’t shoot.

    Your perspective is totally whacked, man .

  113. All the negative nancys are out of hiding lmao…if they have a terrible game tommorow then you can bitch and moan…hopefully they got the clunker out their systems

  114. max fisher-cohen:
    To add, it’s a matter of accountability. If you’ve played ball, you know the lazy players write off losses as “So and so made shots” or “if I’d only my jumper had been on” rather than looking at what they could have controlled. Sure, sometimes you lose despite battling. The philly game very easily could have been an example of that, but this game was not.

    Great comment

  115. hoolahoop:
    Hey, it’s not easy to play intense for four quarters every night, but that’s what bad dogs do.

    Tonight was a perfect opportunity to step up and be the man. the knicks really needed that. Instead he looked like a girl out there.

    Note to Melo: the “man” is not the guy who takes the most shots. It’s the guy that carries the team on his back when the going gets tough.

    Do you know what a zone is, dude?

    How is a guy expected to carry a team when the ball isn’t in his hands. His offense was horrible, but your argument doesn’t make any sense. His shots, for the most part, came within the team concept, as he’s been playing most of the year.

    Get on him for his atrocious shooting. That’s fair and reasonable, this other stuff is total bullshit though.

  116. Lol no pride? They just sucked..effort wasn’t bad they just couldn’t buy a basket

    daJudge:
    Don’t rationalize this loss.You don’t need to blame any individual player either.Even if our boys played better D (lots of shitty ineffective switching), it would not have mattered.The offense was abysmal.Stars need to perform or they’re planets.This was a gut-check (cliche warning, trite but true) step up game and no one stepped up.It was easily winnable.It’s a total disgusting buzz kill subjectively and remember this game about a month from now. No pride.These guys are making up to $40,000.00 per freaking day and we criticize teachers who make that a year because they don’t try hard enough.Sorry for the rant, but Jesus.

  117. ruruland: Wow, wondered where you’d been.

    Well, you’re not always going to annihilate a team defensively, as the Knicks did in Philly. No team in this league, not even good teams like the Knicks fighting for the playoffs, are going to come out with the most intensity every night.

    I don’t think the effort was terrible. 96 points in a 100+ possession game is quite good. It wasn;t their best defensive effort, but when you’re shooting like that and never playing the game with momentum (they had a chance on that blown call) it’s very difficult to make that spirited run.

    But you’re going to think whatever you want to think and frame it however to fit your preconceived narrative.

    It’s their job to stop the momentum. Sometimes you just can’t do it. That’s why they play the games. But, the knicks hole is too deep to be making excuses about losing to Toronto. Again. Especially when they’re fight for their lives.

  118. max fisher-cohen:
    To add, it’s a matter of accountability. If you’ve played ball, you know the lazy players write off losses as “So and so made shots” or “if I’d only my jumper had been on” rather than looking at what they could have controlled. Sure, sometimes you lose despite battling. The philly game very easily could have been an example of that, but this game was not.

    Good grief…. You can’t hold NBA teams under 80 points every night. Some of the Raptors makes were difficult jump shots. Some were a result of poor help. Some were a result of bad mismatches (Bargnani ate Chandler alive) The defense and extra effort weren’t great, but they weren’t bad. You take that defensive effort on most nights.

    Sometimes I question how much basketball folks around here have watched over the years.

  119. I’m convinced everytime they get to about 500 some switch flips where they must lose it’s so freaking weird…you can even look back to games against nets and hornets last month

  120. er:
    Melo played well in every aspect besides shooting so what are you talking about it was def a team loss…chanldler alone left like 10 points @ the rim

    I’m not blaming Melo for the loss. Yes, it was a team loss.
    Just saying it was a great opportunity for him to step up and be a leader. Never happened.

  121. hoolahoop: It’s their job to stop the momentum. Sometimes you just can’t do it. That’s why they play the games. But, the knicks hole is too deep to be making excuses about losing to Toronto. Again. Especially when they’re fight for their lives.

    It’s not an excuse. No one is excusing the atrocious shooting. But, your attributing this to the wrong things like “effort and pride.” That’s really stupid.

  122. I agree once they cut it to one in the 3rd they couldn’t buy a bucket and TO was just buckets

    ruruland: Good grief…. You can’t hold NBA teams under 80 points every night. Some of the Raptors makes were difficult jump shots. Some were a result of poor help. Some were a result of bad mismatches (Bargnani ate Chandler alive) The defense and extra effort weren’t great, but they weren’t bad. You take that defensive effort on most nights.

    Sometimes I question how much basketball folks around here have watched over the years.

  123. hoolahoop: I’m not blaming Melo for the loss. Yes, it was a team loss.
    Just saying it was a great opportunity for him to step up and be a leader. Never happened.

    And, what, demand the ball against the zone defense? His defense was solid, his rebounding was good, his floor play was solid. He played 30 minutes…

    Get on Melo for his atrocious shooting, you might start making some sense.

  124. that was pitiful, now the next two are must-wins (DET and MIL at home).

    so little of redeeming value, 8 assists by Baron in 22 minutes the way that team was shooting is nothing short of miraculous, and Shump with only 17 minutes means now they’re 2-9 when he doesn’t get at least 19. I don’t understand how Melo and Smith can keep shooting like this game in and game out, it defies logic and probability.

  125. Melo, Lin, Chandler all had +/- of -19. JR: -11.

    I guess JR was in there a while to take 3s against the zone, but he was probably on the floor too long. And it really annoyed me that Baron tried a 3 himself even though Novak was wide open right next to him.

    Woodson’s substitutions were odd to me. It seemed to me there were bad matchups on the floor, like Baron guarding big guys, even without defensive switching.

    Raptors answered every time Knicks tried to put together a run. They deserve credit for that, wasn’t suckiness by Knicks team.

    Anyway, we lose games without Jeffries. =P

  126. I usually do not agree with your comments MFC, but totally agree tonight. BTW, even assuming arguendo that they simply could not make their shots, it’s the Raptors. That’s not why they lost. You need to find a way to win at this point. No excuses allowed. You lost an important game to a really shitty team because you didn’t bring it. That’s it. They lost because they are mired in mediocrity and no one stepped up.

  127. jon abbey:
    that was pitiful, now the next two are must-wins (DET and MIL at home).

    so little of redeeming value, 8 assists by Baron in 22 minutes the way that team was shooting is nothing short of miraculous, and Shump with only 17 minutes means now they’re 2-9 when he doesn’t get at least 19. I don’t understand how Melo and Smith can keep shooting like this game in and game out, it defies logic and probability.

    It’s blowing my mind. It’s not like Melo is missing everything. A lot of these shots are an inch off in any direction. JR was getting wide open 3s. I mean, I’m just blown away by it lasting this long.

  128. Lmao he took like 3 or 4 shots in 2nd half…if he hogged and shot 12 and was like 4-12 you would have complained about that too right or wrong

    hoolahoop: I’m not blaming Melo for the loss. Yes, it was a team loss.
    Just saying it was a great opportunity for him to step up and be a leader. Never happened.

  129. ruruland: Do you know what a zone is, dude?

    How is a guy expected to carry a team when the ball isn’t in his hands. His offense was horrible, but your argument doesn’t make any sense. His shots, for the most part, came within the team concept, as he’s been playing most of the year.

    Get on him for his atrocious shooting. That’s fair and reasonable, this other stuff is total bullshit though.

    I’m not trying to fight with you.
    But Yeah, his shooting sucked when the team really needed it. It sucks when they don’t need it. I’m not trying to bash Melo. I really like how he’s adapted his game. I like him more as a knicks player now more than ever.
    But, if he’s the god you make him out to be and he thinks he is, it would have been nice if he stepped up and didn’t shoot 33%. Again.

  130. I’m concvinced he’s hurt cuz some shots aren’t even close and he has refrained from shooting bad shots lately and still nothing…i won’t be surprised if he needs some kind of surgery in offseason or sumthin

    ruruland: It’s blowing my mind. It’s not like Melo is missing everything. A lot of these shots are an inch off in any direction.JR was getting wide open 3s. I mean, I’m just blown away by it lasting this long.

  131. On the other side of the ledger, let’s give Toronto their due. They played a good game, especially considering they’re not playing for anything other than the fans….
    the few fans that were there. Did you notice how many empty seats there were behind the benches.

  132. daJudge:
    I usually do not agree with your comments MFC, but totally agree tonight.BTW, even assuming arguendo that they simply could not make their shots, it’s the Raptors.That’s not why they lost.You need to find a way to win at this point.No excuses allowed.You lost an important game to a really shitty team because you didn’t bring it.That’s it.They lost because they are mired in mediocrity and no one stepped up.

    Please. Every team in the league, every team in history, the ’96 Bulls included, lost games to inferior teams when they couldn’t get shots to drop..

    Boston scored 74 points and lost to this team last month. You can go through every team in the league and find a game or two or three like this.

    It was the fact that they shot so poorly against Philly that has me really freaked out.

  133. Folks, sorry for the double post. Ru-ru, you know Melo sucked like the rest of the team tonight. Own it, learn something from it, or repeat it. Don’t defend anyone on this team tonight or your credibility takes a huge nose dive.

  134. ruruland: Actually, they made their run in the early part of their fourth quarter but still couldn’t shoot.

    Your perspective is totally whacked, man .

    My perspective is whacked? That is priceless.

    Look, at no point in the 4th were the Knicks within single digits of the Raptors. That “run” was fueled by Novak and a small Raptors cold stretch. If they stepped up on D it might have been legitimate, but they didn’t and it was mirage.

    They WERE within 1 point with I think about 9 minutes left in 3rd, but then missed a bunch of shots/turned the ball over and stopped playing D. This team can’t stop playing D. If they do, (at least with our offensive centerpiece playing like this) we get blown out, plain and simple.

  135. No one said he’s a god second something has to be wrong cuz no one in the league shoots this bad..why are you singling him out tho did you watch the team shoot under 40% the last 2 games

    hoolahoop: I’m not trying to fight with you.
    But Yeah, his shooting sucked when the team really needed it. It sucks when they don’t need it. I’m not trying to bash Melo. I really like how he’s adapted his game. I like him more as a knicks player now more than ever.
    But, if he’s the god you make him out to be and he thinks he is, it would have been nice if he stepped up and didn’t shoot 33%. Again.

  136. ruruland: It’s not an excuse. No one is excusing the atrocious shooting. But, your attributing this to the wrong things like “effort and pride.” That’s really stupid.

    I never said pride. The word I used was intensity. …lack of it.
    When you’re shooting like shit, you got to get every loose ball, offensive rebounds, stops. Maybe you still lose, but maybe you turn the momentum.

  137. hoolahoop: I’m not trying to fight with you.
    But Yeah, his shooting sucked when the team really needed it. It sucks when they don’t need it. I’m not trying to bash Melo. I really like how he’s adapted his game. I like him more as a knicks player now more than ever.
    But, if he’s the god you make him out to be and he thinks he is, it would have been nice if he stepped up and didn’t shoot 33%. Again.

    I’m with you, man. It’s beyond the point of disturbing. There is no precedent in his career for a stretch this long where his shooting is this bad. I mean, all of his makes are at the rim. He literally cannot make a jump shot. When you see a guy, over the course of hundreds of games, shoot a much higher percentage on much more difficult isolation shots or shots against double teams, etc. it just doesn’t make sense.

    I’m not defending him for that. But, I can’t understand it, either.

  138. daJudge:
    Folks, sorry for the double post.Ru-ru, you know Melo sucked like the rest of the team tonight.Own it, learn something from it, or repeat it.Don’t defend anyone on this team tonight or your credibility takes a huge nose dive.

    Are you reading what I’m writing?

  139. hoolahoop: I never said pride. The word I used was intensity. …lack of it.
    When you’re shooting like shit, you got to get every loose ball, offensive rebounds, stops. Maybe you still lose, but maybe you turn the momentum.

    In an ideal world this is true and you would never lose a game to a bad team.

  140. ruruland:

    Get on Melo for his atrocious shooting, you might start making some sense.

    YES! – That’s exactly what I’m saying. Knock them down when the team is desperate for a FG. And then another. Then another. And make big plays away from the ball.

  141. Degree_Absolute: My perspective is whacked?That is priceless.

    Look, at no point in the 4th were the Knicks within single digits of the Raptors.That “run” was fueled by Novak and a small Raptors cold stretch.If they stepped up on D it might have been legitimate, but they didn’t and it was mirage.

    They WERE within 1 point with I think about 9 minutes left in 3rd, but then missed a bunch of shots/turned the ball over and stopped playing D.This team can’t stop playing D.If they do, (at least with our offensive centerpiece playing like this) we get blown out, plain and simple.

    Wait, so when they get stops it’s just a Raptors “cold stretch.”

    The defense was not great, it was very average, but 99 percent of the league goes into an energy deficit when they shoot this atrociously, but again, the Raptors were shooting under 40 percent and had 39 points in the first half.

  142. @ruru If the Knicks had played defense and rebounded like they have in this win streak, they probably would have won and if not would have lost by a very small margin. Regardless of the offense. You can’t deny that.

    Look at the numbers. Toronto is 25th in the league in rebounding. We have been the best in rebounding differential in the last 5 games (+9.5 I think). We should have destroyed them on the boards as we did last game. I don’t have time to run the opponent TS% numbers for the last 5 games, but I assure that they are much better than they were tonight, and that’s with Toronto shooting dreadfully from 3 as well (1-13).

    We can argue all night about what this loss means in terms of the team’s psyche or the mental effects of missed shots or whatever because that stuff is entirely subjective. The facts show the Knicks didn’t commit themselves in the effort categories.

  143. Lmao this board is amazing melo played his best game in like 2 games he hasn’t been good but he shud not be singled out at all there were so Many lapses missed shots bad D etc..no one shud be singled out in a positive or negative way they all sucked

  144. hoolahoop: Maybe he needs a bigger basket.

    He’s shooting the ball worse than anyone in basketball getting starters minutes. He fucking sucks in the most important aspect of the game right now, man.

    I’m not making any more predictions about a blow-up game, maybe I’m jinxing him….

    but this is like watching the worst batting slump of a guys career, and at this point, I think he’s big-time in his own head.

  145. ruruland: Wait, so when they get stops it’s just a Raptors “cold stretch.”

    Yes, so, over a period of time, when a team misses multiple shots on pretty decent looks that is what we call a “cold stretch.”

  146. Ruru, this was a team loss, not a Melo loss. But your defense of him makes Melo, and you, a lightning rod.
    Everyone played below par. Own it.

  147. max fisher-cohen:
    @ruru If the Knicks had played defense and rebounded like they have in this win streak, they probably would have won and if not would have lost by a very small margin. Regardless of the offense. You can’t deny that.

    We can argue all night about what this loss means in terms of the team’s psyche or the mental effects of missed shots or whatever because that stuff is entirely subjective. The facts show the Knicks didn’t commit themselves in the effort categories.

    First, when you shoot 37% and have 6 second shot misses on free throws, you’re going to lose the rebound battle 99.9 percent of the time.

    Their were occasions when they gave up some loos balls and rebounds, but it wasn’t awful.

    It wasn’t as good of a defensive effort as they displayed the last five games. But let’s have some perspective, that 5 game stretch (excluding the 42 point quarter) is one of the best defensive stretches in the NBA this year.

    So, do you think they are the best defensive team in the NBA (by 3-4 points per 100 possessions), or a really good defensive team that is susceptible to losing games when they play offense as badly as they did tonight?

  148. Also, really tired about making this whole year about Melo. It’s really getting old and stupid. Bottom line, he’s an average player right now, missing his shots, but making up for it in other ways….simply to reach average. Enough of Melo already. He’s playing sub par, but OK. OK?? Sure, he’s clearly not worth what we paid for (at this point), but that’s who we got at the 3. Personally, I think he is an excellent player but I can’t account for his problems nor do I see a need to provide excuses. If you want to focus on crucial issues, it is JJ’s knees. Of course it would have been nice if one of our so called stars stepped up and dominated against a terrible team in a significant way, with their obnoxious PG doing nothing. Please do not defend anyone on the Knicks tonight and hold them collectively accountable for this drek game and the utter waste of two hours of my life.

  149. hoolahoop:
    Ruru, this was a team loss, not a Melo loss. But your defense of him makes Melo, and you, a lightning rod.
    Everyone played below par. Own it.

    I get that. All I try to do is add a 20,000 foot perspective sometimes, even when it feels like I’m doing it while falling off the cliff.

    I’m not absolving Melo for the blame he deserves this year, and he deserves a LOT of it. He’s a much, much better player than this, at least, at 27, he has been the last 7 years.

  150. I appreciate someone besides ruru saying this…

    daJudge:
    Also, really tired about making this whole year about Melo.It’s really getting old and stupid.Bottom line, he’s an average player right now, missing his shots, but making up for it in other ways….simply to reach average.Enough of Melo already.He’s playing sub par, but OK.OK??Sure, he’s clearly not worth what we paid for (at this point), but that’s who we got at the 3.Personally, I think he is an excellent player but Ican’t account for his problems nor do I see a need to provide excuses.If you want to focus on crucial issues, it is JJ’s knees.Of course it would have been nice if one of our so called stars stepped up and dominated against a terrible team in a significant way, with their obnoxious PG doing nothing.Please do not defend anyone on the Knicks tonight and hold them collectively accountable for this drek game and the utter waste of two hours of my life.

  151. Look, the biggest reason people reacting this way is that we have seen over the last few games just how devastating the Knicks D can be. I personally didn’t see that same commitment tonight and when only one guy on your team can shoot, you are going lose games if you don’t bring it every night.

    Maybe the Knicks pulled a Granger and thought the Raptors were gonna be a pushover, I don’t know. What I do know is that a team under .500 can’t rest of its laurels, because, shit, they don’t have any. We won a few games in a row after the coach quit on the team. That’s it. We don’t have the luxury of looking ahead in the schedule. I really, really hope Woodson makes that clear to these guys.

  152. Degree_Absolute: Yes, so, over a period of time, when a team misses multiple shots on pretty decent looks that is what we call a “cold stretch.”

    You want to go over the looks one by one, and do you want to talk about the contested tough looks the Raptors made tonight when the Knicks turned it up and applied the same defensive pressure they had in the 5 game strtech, many during the time where they pulled away (that’s all front-running confidence, btw)?

  153. Degree_Absolute:
    Look, the biggest reason people reacting this way is that we have seen over the last few games just how devastating the Knicks D can be.I personally didn’t see that same commitment tonight and when only one guy on your team can shoot, you are going lose games if you don’t bring it every night.

    Maybe the Knicks pulled a Granger and thought the Raptors were gonna be a pushover, I don’t know.What I do know is that a team under .500 can’t rest of its laurels, because, shit, they don’t have any.We won a few games in a row after the coach quit on the team.That’s it.We don’t have the luxury of looking ahead in the schedule.I really, really hope Woodson makes that clear to these guys.

    They were a little flat, but not egregiously so.

  154. If the Knicks win their next 2 this game will seem like it was weeks ago. Hopefully, just a bump in the road.

  155. ruruland: First, when you shoot 37% and have 6 second shot misses on free throws, you’re going to lose the rebound battle 99.9 percent of the time.

    Their were occasions when they gave up some loos balls and rebounds, but it wasn’t awful.

    It wasn’t as good of a defensive effort as they displayed the last five games. But let’s have some perspective, that 5 game stretch (excluding the 42 point quarter) is one of the best defensive stretches in the NBA this year.

    So, do you think they are the best defensive team in the NBA (by 3-4 points per 100 possessions), or a really good defensive team that is susceptible to losing games when they play offense as badly as they did tonight?

    I was just counting offensive rebounds. Raps shoulda beat us or been close in d-rebounds due to our terrible shooting. I agree that the team has been playing above itself on defense, but they played well below my expectations this game.

    Your argument makes you sound like a pessimist though. I’m not sure if that’s your intention. Our offense has been terrible all season. If we are really a 10th best defense, even melo getting on track won’t lift us back to elite range offensively. Let’s say we’re the 10th best offense, 10th best defense. That’s not a contending team. Or do you think our offense is even better than that? If so, beyond Melo’s shooting issues, what solvable problems are there?

  156. d-mar:
    If the Knicks win their next 2 this game will seem like it was weeks ago. Hopefully, just a bump in the road.

    They just need to go steal one down the line @ Chicago or @ Orlando.

    Long runs don’t always happen like they seem they should on the schedule

  157. max fisher-cohen: I was just counting offensive rebounds. Raps shoulda beat us or been close in d-rebounds due to our terrible shooting. I agree that the team has been playing above itself on defense, but they played well below my expectations this game.

    Your argument makes you sound like a pessimist though. I’m not sure if that’s your intention. Our offense has been terrible all season. If we are really a 10th best defense, even melo getting on track won’t lift us back to elite range offensively. Let’s say we’re the 10th best offense, 10th best defense. That’s not a contending team. Or do you think our offense is even better than that? If so, beyond Melo’s shooting issues, what solvable problems are there?

    I think they can be better than 10th in offense and defense. It’s not just Melo, it’s JR, too. We’re just starting to see Amar’e emerge. And I think Lin can play more efficiently and I think with all of the pieces playing closer to their abilities, this can be a great offense, and they’ve flashed that at times.

    This was not a matter of getting good looks tonight. That’s when you have problems. This is the first time they’ve played most of the game against a zone.

    The extent of underachievement from this offense is difficult to quantify and even harder to understand. A much less talented team last year, with Melo and Amar’e (and Billups playing below average) was No.1 in offensive efficiency the final 24 games…..

  158. Yup effin melo shot 40% from 3 lol

    ruruland: I think they can be better than 10th in offense and defense. It’s not just Melo, it’s JR, too. We’re just starting to see Amar’e emerge. And I think Lin can play more efficiently and I think with all of the pieces playing closer to their abilities, this can be a great offense, and they’ve flashed that at times.

    This was not a matter of getting good looks tonight. That’s when you have problems. This is the first time they’ve played most of the game against a zone.

    The extent of underachievement from this offense is difficult to quantify and even harder to understand. A much less talented team last year, with Melo and Amar’e (and Billups playing below average) was No.1 in offensive efficiency the final 24 games…..

  159. “The extent of underachievement from this offense is difficult to quantify and even harder to understand. A much less talented team last year, with Melo and Amar’e (and Billups playing below average) was No.1 in offensive efficiency the final 24 games…..”

    It’s highly quantifiable.

    And Billups was far from below average. Maybe below average for him. But he still put up a 58% ts%.

    And it’s pretty clear what his absence means to the Clippers.

  160. When your zone busters consist of a poor shooting shooting guard named Fields, a very streaky JR Smith, coupled with an off night for the well-covered Novak, and the continually and historically crappy shooting Melo, you got problems with a zone. You all know that teams will pick up on this strategy. The point guards played poorly as well and didn’t break down the obvious zone. Worst game I have seen Chandler play with the Knicks. Just a terrible overall effort. Do you think this team already believes they are good? That would be the final nail.

  161. ruruland: They were a little flat, but not egregiously so.

    All of our best stretches this season have been predicated on a strong, gritty defense taking pressure off our, at best, inconsistent offense. Woodson’s little tear has been no different. We have been a one-trick pony, but that trick has been damn good. I love that fucking trick. Our defense has, more or less, pounded teams into submission, allowing for some lopsided victories. Tonight, sadly, that pony got sent to the glue factory.

    If the offense is going to continue to be inconsistent (or down-right shitty like they were tonight) we don’t have the luxury to come out a “little flat”, even it isn’t egregious in your view. No, you can’t make every shot. No rational person thinks that. You can, however, control the effort you exert on defense. I didn’t see the same consistent effort tonight.

    If you saw it, great. If you didn’t see it, but are OK with that, great, that is on you. With where we are so far in the season (under .500, not a lock to make the playoffs), I don’t think that is acceptable.

  162. Will be interesting to see if opposing teams do more zone in the games to come. Knicks perimeter shooting has been sucky to inconsistent all along, except for Novak but he can’t create his own shots.

  163. daJudge: coupled with an off night for the well-covered Novak

    I agree with you, but how freaking crazy is it that an off-night for Novak is 5-9 from three point range? He is such a beast. The key is that he only had one when it mattered.

  164. Terrible guard play for the Knicks in this game. Nobody played well, but the guards in particular were really hopeless out there.

  165. Is there a statistic available for team’s won-loss record on the 4th game in 5 nights? Not to make excuses, but maybe it was a factor tonight.

  166. Not counting Novak (who was 5-9 from three pt line), the rest of the entire team did not hit a SINGLE three-pointer all game: 0 out of 19.

    Aside from the guards and most everyone playing badly, did Woodson have a clear plan to adjust his players and plays to the zone defense? Wasn’t obvious to me he did, except to put JR and Novak on the floor and pray.

  167. I’m sorry but if our team really depends on Jared Jeffries this much for intensity/defense, we are in some major, major trouble. Somehow, all other teams in the NBA are able to win games without their backup PF, even if he is our main glue guy. But anyways, it looked like our main issue was shooting, and our shooting has sucked of late (really our entire offense) so that’s pretty depressing.

  168. d-mar:
    Is there a statistic available for team’s won-loss record on the 4th game in 5 nights? Not to make excuses, but maybe it was a factor tonight.

    tomorrow will be the 4th game in 5 nights, tonight was the 3rd in 4 after a day off yesterday.

  169. jon abbey: tomorrow will be the 4th game in 5 nights, tonight was the 3rd in 4 after a day off yesterday.

    Right, my bad, one too many tonight, trying to erase that clusterf–k of a game from my memory.

  170. Owen:
    “The extent of underachievement from this offense is difficult to quantify and even harder to understand. A much less talented team last year, with Melo and Amar’e (and Billups playing below average) was No.1 in offensive efficiency the final 24 games…..”

    It’s highly quantifiable.

    And Billups was far from below average. Maybe below average for him. But he still put up a 58% ts%.

    And it’s pretty clear what his absence means to the Clippers.

    His overall offensive impact is very similar to Lin’s so far this year.

    Are you denying that this iteration of the team is not significantly more talented than last years (which finished first in offensive efficiency), and that this years version is significantly underachieving, or does this give you pleasure? Are you relishing in the idea that Melo and other cast-off acquisitions struggles might be permanent, or close to it? Does this give you a sense of vindication? IF so, what does that say about your fanhood? Perhaps you recognize some deeper implications there.

    I sense more gloating in your tone than frustration, and it’s pretty clear what states of mind that points to.

    We know you don’t want Melo on the team, we know you don’t like him, but he’s here, and it he might be here for awhile, so why don’t you, for now, cede ground on this issue to the people who actually care about him returning to form, and thus, the team playing to its capability.

  171. limpidgimp:
    Not counting Novak (who was 5-9 from three pt line), the rest of the entire team did not hit a SINGLE three-pointer all game: 0 out of 19.

    Aside from the guards and most everyone playing badly, did Woodson have a clear plan to adjust his players and plays to the zone defense? Wasn’t obvious to me he did, except to put JR and Novak on the floor and pray.

    Lin remarked after the game that the team had no plays against the zone.

  172. Degree_Absolute: All of our best stretches this season have been predicated on a strong, gritty defense taking pressure off our, at best, inconsistent offense.Woodson’s little tear has been no different.We have been a one-trick pony, but that trick has been damn good.I love that fucking trick.Our defense has, more or less, pounded teams into submission, allowing for some lopsided victories. Tonight, sadly, that pony got sent to the glue factory.

    If the offense is going to continue to be inconsistent (or down-right shitty like they were tonight) we don’t have the luxury to come out a “little flat”, even it isn’t egregious in your view.No, you can’t make every shot.No rational person thinks that.You can, however, control the effort you exert on defense.I didn’t see the same consistent effort tonight.

    If you saw it, great.If you didn’t see it, but are OK with that, great, that is on you.With where we are so far in the season (under .500, not a lock to make the playoffs), I don’t think that is acceptable.

    I agree to an extent, but I think you need to step back and see this from a longer view. This was a terrible loss, but, it’s one loss. They weren’t going to win out. It’s all about how they bounce back.

  173. jon abbey: tomorrow will be the 4th game in 5 nights, tonight was the 3rd in 4 after a day off yesterday.

    Historically 3 in 4 and 4 in 5 have been something around 25 win % if memory serves me.

    Melo, btw, has been putting a lot of work in the gym in the morning, before the game shooting and after the game shooting….

  174. ruruland: This was a terrible loss, but, it’s one loss.

    When viewed in a vacuum, yes this was one horrible loss.

    Here in reality, it was actually the 25th loss. When the schedule is this tough, you can’t lose a game like this. If it was the first week, the first month or even the first half the season, I might agree with you. The fact is the season is more than 70% complete and the Knicks are under .500 and not a lock to be in the playoffs. It is completely unacceptable.

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