2012 Game Thread: Extinct Spielberg-Hyped Creatures v. Knicks

Fun Fact: an actual Velociraptor isn’t nearly as big as Jurassic Park made them out to be.

In the In the films it was shown with anatomical inaccuracies, including being much larger than it was in reality and without feathers. It is also well known to paleontologists, with over a dozen described fossil skeletons—the most of any dromaeosaurid.

Hmm. If that’s true, now I wonder how tall Andrea Bar-YAR-knee actually is. 5’11”?

Prehistoric speculation and more can all go here, true believers!

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Robert Silverman

Hey, did you know that in addition to banging the keys here and occasionally for the NY Times and at ESPN, Robert is a playwright, an actor and a wand'ring mendicant/gadfly? He also once wrestled a bear...and lost.

249 thoughts to “2012 Game Thread: Extinct Spielberg-Hyped Creatures v. Knicks”

  1. this is a must-win, let’s see if we can get the same kind of effort for the fifth game in a row (counting Chicago).

  2. Gray going to the bench so early will be important, he gave Chandler the most trouble last time, so now he can dominate.

    What I’d like to know is how we can get some more protection for Lin. Its now getting ridiculous how teams are kicking his ass with impunity. can we put Jermoe Jordan in as an enforcer (a la hokey) just to get ejected with a hard foul each time someone goes at lin? this is getting really ridiculous, its beyond just normal ‘physical’ NBA play. no?

  3. The defense by both Amare and (I hate to say it) Chandler was so awful on that dunk by Barganani. He started his drive from the 3 point line. How can no one be there? No one!

  4. Stat’s offense is really picking up thought. Looking like he’s finally got his legs back on his jumper

  5. Michael Cline:
    The defense by both Amare and (I hate to say it) Chandler was so awful on that dunk by Barganani. He started his drive from the 3 point line. How can no one be there? No one!

    I mean, is Amare fucking joking? he TURNED AROUND when he saw Bargnani driving, this is a joke.

  6. Bruno Almeida: I mean, is Amare fucking joking? he TURNED AROUND when he saw Bargnani driving, this is a joke.

    No joke. He literally saw him and turned his back on the drive. It’s just a fucking joke at this point

  7. Beautiful drives by Amare and Shump in the first quarter. Sidestepping guys, going hard to the hole…i love it

  8. Did Bibby have a tattoo (partially) removed? What’s that weird smudge on his arm?

  9. Michael Cline: No joke. He literally saw him and turned his back on the drive. It’s just a fucking joke at this point

    it looked like he was complaining about a foul, which kinda shows Amare’s effort on D.

    what irritates me is that most players that get dunked on by a semi-scrub like Bargnani would get pissed off and would try their hardest to not allow it, and yet Amare turns around.

  10. Shump getting some minutes as the PG (Bibby is out there, but is pretty much dead). I think it’s safe to say that TD is done as a Knick

  11. btw, Jeffries seems like a better FT shooter lately for some reason…seems to have ironed out his mechanics of late.

  12. I’ve been watching off and on. Is the defense not there or are they just hitting shots? I keep looking and seeing them hitting difficult shots but have trouble believing they are all that hard.

  13. Jesus JR loves to shoot with a hand in his face with his feet on the line. At least make it a 3, c’mon man.

  14. I don’t like this lineup with Bibby, I’d rather have Shump at the 1, Smith 2, Novak 3, Jeffries 4 and Jorts 5.

  15. without an active PG, this second unit is having issues with this bigger raptors line-up. I think instead of Bibby, let SHUMP take the ball up, and bring in jorts for inside presence! thoughts?

  16. EB:
    I’ve been watching off and on. Is the defense not there or are they just hitting shots? I keep looking and seeing them hitting difficult shots but have trouble believing they are all that hard.

    Defense has been hot or cold. A lot of great plays (taking charges, boxing out, etc) follow by a lot of non-effort plays (I’m looking at you Amare)

  17. Melo has two steals. Lots of charges going on (and not just by jeffries). It’s been an overall decent effort on D I would say

  18. hahaha half the team stopped playing and threw their hands to the sky when Novak had that open three. Crash the boards he might miss! lol jk he doesn’t miss those.

  19. jinx. you beat me to it.

    Bruno Almeida:
    I don’t like this lineup with Bibby, I’d rather have Shump at the 1, Smith 2, Novak 3, Jeffries 4 and Jorts 5.

  20. Michael Cline: Defense has been hot or cold. A lot of great plays (taking charges, boxing out, etc) follow by a lot of non-effort plays (I’m looking at you Amare)

    Thanks

  21. Bruno Almeida:
    never thought I’d say that, but I love Jeffries.

    Seriously, what were the odds that Jeffries would become one of the most beloved of Knicks? I’d say they were about even with the chances of Mardy Collins turning into Russell Westbrook.

  22. Kikuchiyo: Seriously, what were the odds that Jeffries would become one of the most beloved of Knicks? I’d say they were about even with the chances of Mardy Collins turning into Russell Westbrook.

    it’s insane, even I can’t believe it hahaha

    he just has the right attitude, for a guy like him to suffer so much abuse (booing and everything) and to keep working hard, giving up his body every day… he deserves a lot of respect.

  23. JR Smith is doing it all right now. I’m speechless. Yeah, he has taken a dumb shot or two, but he’s making up for it on defense. I loved on that last play where Amare acted like he was going to “help” cut off the drive but instead that the raptors get all the way to the hoop. Then Smith comes off his man for the block.

  24. Melo is dishing and boxing out. JR Smith is setting up for the charge. Jeffries is driving and hitting layups.

    You have to feel bad for MDA. It’s just not right.

  25. Michael Cline: Melo is dishing and boxing out. JR Smith is setting up for the charge. Jeffries is driving and hitting layups.You have to feel bad for MDA. It’s just not right.

    It’s perfectly right. No MDA does or did the things the Knicks are doing now.

  26. No MDA team played with a defense first mentality or pressure defense. Don’t understand the sympathy. This is about coaching and a lack thereof.

  27. It looks to me as though Woodson is focusing more on getting the ball to Melo in the post which has been drawing double teams. He’s not scoring more efficiently but its opening up lanes to crash boards

  28. Not sure how that wasn’t a charge by Melo on that kickout 3 but I’ll take it. It makes up for all the missed calls on Lin’s head

  29. Michael Cline:
    Not sure how that wasn’t a charge by Melo on that kickout 3 but I’ll take it. It makes up for all the missed calls on Lin’s head

    Agreed. But Melo kicking out to Lin for the trey? Beautiful role reversal!

  30. Jesus, Lin. It’s okay to pass the ball to your wings. You don’t have to dribble the ball 10 seconds before you look to pass.

  31. Lin can have his way tonight getting in the paint. But so far missing shots he usually makes.

  32. llcoolbp: anybody else saw melo clapping for the ball there? I hated playing with team mates like that.

    Are you serious?

    melo has a mismatch… Lin is dribbling the ball out front too much.

  33. Melo giving up the ball with 14 seconds left in half for Lin. This can’t get any better. Melo is really buying in.

  34. Michael Cline:
    Melo giving up the ball with 14 seconds left in half for Lin. This can’t get any better. Melo is really buying in.

    fingers crossed…

  35. “Raptors will be wearing their new camouflage jerseys”?

    Did he just say that?

  36. Raptors in camouflage:

    “Pass me the ball, Jose!”

    “Where are you, Andrea? I can’t SEE you!”

  37. Kikuchiyo:
    “Raptors will be wearing their new camouflage jerseys”?

    Did he just say that?

    I got flashbacks to that horrendous Padres jersey lol

  38. drewbreez:
    Lin’s new couch and apartment is the FT line at MSG.

    Hehe. But at this rate, Lin will be disfigured by the end of the season.

  39. Michael Cline: Melo giving up the ball with 14 seconds left in half for Lin. This can’t get any better. Melo is really buying in.

    This is the first time you’ve seen him play with competent teammates ( over a long stretch of games). This isn’t anything new.

    Lin is still brainwashed by MDA. He doesn’t need to dribble the ball 10-15 seconds, going through multipl pick and rolls looking for a seam every possession in order for this offense to succeed. He can be really effective off the ball if he lets Melo and others set him up.

    This ain’t shit for Melo. I’m loving the defensive play. This is their identity now.

  40. What I’m really pleased about is they’re still playing with that same defensive intensity from the last 3 games. I was worried they’d come into this game against an inferior opponent and fall behind by double digits like they’ve done so many times this year, but I really like what I saw in the first half defensively. That’s 14 straight quarters of tough D (putting aside garbage time against the Blazers), I think enough of a sample to say this team is buying what Woodson is selling?

  41. d-mar:
    What I’m really pleased about is they’re still playing with that same defensive intensity from the last 3 games. I was worried they’d come into this game against an inferior opponent and fall behind by double digits like they’ve done so many times this year, but I really like what I saw in the first half defensively. That’s 14 straight quarters of tough D (putting aside garbage time against the Blazers), I think enough of a sample to say this team is buying what Woodson is selling?

    yeah… let’s wait for the 3rd quarter and hope there’s no letdown this time.

    I admit I’m kinda hopeful.

  42. Anyone still question that Indiana’s a good team. They’re putting it to the CLippers right now.

  43. Love that the golden state fans booed the GM. Hilarious. And all they kept saying was you’re the greatest fans in the world, show some class.

  44. Frank O.:
    Love that the golden state fans booed the GM. Hilarious. And all they kept saying was you’re the greatest fans in the world, show some class.

    I dunno I’d probably boo Dolan just as hard

  45. d-mar:
    What I’m really pleased about is they’re still playing with that same defensive intensity from the last 3 games. I was worried they’d come into this game against an inferior opponent and fall behind by double digits like they’ve done so many times this year, but I really like what I saw in the first half defensively. That’s 14 straight quarters of tough D (putting aside garbage time against the Blazers), I think enough of a sample to say this team is buying what Woodson is selling?

    Or D’Antoni leaving was a big wake up call for the team, especially Melo and Amar’e. Amar’e has just been on another level offensively lately, and his defense is finally starting to pick up. If his jumper if falling consistently and he’s at least trying on defense, there will be no more questions about him fitting in with Melo and Chandler. Considering a month ago the Knicks were paying him the max to hurt the team overall, this has been a pleasant turn of events.

  46. Juany8: Or D’Antoni leaving was a big wake up call for the team, especially Melo and Amar’e. Amar’e has just been on another level offensively lately, and his defense is finally starting to pick up. If his jumper if falling consistently and he’s at least trying on defense, there will be no more questions about him fitting in with Melo and Chandler. Considering a month ago the Knicks were paying him the max to hurt the team overall, this has been a pleasant turn of events.

    Or, again, it’s a brand new approach to coaching that makes a huge difference, too.

  47. So my roommate just broke up with his 3-year girlfriend so we’re “getting blackout” tonight, which means my evaluations of the Knicks might be a little skewed.

    I think they’re playing pretty damn well, especially with some surprising hustle plays from JR on the offensive glass. That’s accurate, right? I SWEAR IM NOT THJC THAT GUY IS A BIG MEANIE!

  48. Juany8: Or D’Antoni leaving was a big wake up call for the team, especially Melo and Amar’e. Amar’e has just been on another level offensively lately, and his defense is finally starting to pick up. If his jumper if falling consistently and he’s at least trying on defense, there will be no more questions about him fitting in with Melo and Chandler. Considering a month ago the Knicks were paying him the max to hurt the team overall, this has been a pleasant turn of events.

    AMare’s defense has picked up? Uh…are you sure?

  49. ruruland: Or, again, it’s a brand new approach to coaching that makes a huge difference, too.

    Perhaps, but even during the losing streak it really seemed to me that the only thing the team was missing was consistency, the Knicks had sustained stretches in every game where they looked like a legit team (and other stretches that looked unbelievably bad) . If all Woodson is able to do is get the team to consistently play to it’s abilities, it’s really not that hard to envision this team giving Miami and Chicago problems. There really aren’t any great teams in the NBA this year, OKC, Miami, and Chicago are all very good, but nowhere near the Laker and Spurs dynasty teams of the past decade. Hell if Dallas had kept Tyson Chandler they might still be the favorites, the Knicks aren’t going to be favored but they’re talented enough to hang with those teams.

  50. Michael Cline: AMare’s defense has picked up? Uh…are you sure?

    Haha, I think it’s at least been passable since the Chicago game. And yes that is a massive improvement, and also very sad. I never got why everyone attacked Melo when Amar’e has clearly been worse all year, although his recent play has been very encouraging.

  51. Nice, Landry with an oop. So he’s JR without the jumping ability….or Novak without the shooting ability…or….well there’s an And-1 so I’ll stop there.

  52. – Melo’s looked a lot better tonight than he has since Christmas.
    – Amar’e looks like he’s back.
    – Lin and Fields have some great chemistry.
    – Go Knicks!

  53. Melo does look better. Still only 3-9. The guy has an unprecedented ability to generate space for a shot. But right now he just isn’t sinking anything….

  54. I think we should start a petition that says that Landry can NEVER take a shot outside of 8 feet. Is it just me or has he clearly gotten quicker this year? He just looks more athletic than in the past. I think he was always more athletic than what he as given credit for (maybe a bit of bias and racism in the analysis), but he seems even more spry this year.

    No more jump shots. Take it to the hoop Landry. You and Shump need to have identical games on this team.

  55. How is it decided who shoots the technical? Is it just decided by the team? Melo shot them in last game, but today Lin shot em.

  56. I think it’s just the team. Or the coach. Or whoever grabs the ball and stands at the line.

    limpidgimp:
    How is it decided who shoots the technical? Is it just decided by the team? Melo shot them in last game, but today Lin shot em.

  57. Gallo broken thumb. Is he gonna be one of those injury prone guys? What a shame – that behind the back pass the other night was one of the best ever.

    One of the best things MDA did was standing up for JJ a few weeks ago. I thought that would bring us together but no such luck.

  58. god it feels good when lin hits a three….

    in some way, every time is like the first time….

  59. Shump can seriously play some Defense. I like the Shump vs. Derozan matchup.

    With Shump and JJ, we’ve got 2 guys that guard multiple positions

  60. massive:
    Quick! Name 5 perimeter defenders better than Iman Shumpert!

    Name 2. He’s an absolute monster, only Tony Allen is capable to pressuring a guy like that while still staying in front of him. That’s without taking his steals into account. If he can consistently make his jumper and he gets a little bit of playmaking ability (things he has shown flashes of) , he’s going to be an absolute game changer

  61. Woodson is to Lin like tiger mom was to Lin.
    I read somewhere his mom was very tough

  62. Outside of the missed FTs and occasional defensive lapse is there anything to quibble about ( beyond where was this before)

  63. Juany8: Name 2. He’s an absolute monster, only Tony Allen is capable to pressuring a guy like that while still staying in front of him. That’s without taking his steals into account. If he can consistently make his jumper and he gets a little bit of playmaking ability (things he has shown flashes of) , he’s going to be an absolute game changer

    I can only think of Rondo and Tony Allen off the back. Nobody else strikes me as better than Shump.

  64. There aren’t five. Lebron James, Luol Deng, Shawn Marion, and of course Mike Bibby are probably better.

    Then Ronnie Brewer, Sepholosha maybe questionable/equal. Missing anyone?

  65. max fisher-cohen:
    There aren’t five. Lebron James, Luol Deng, Shawn Marion, and of course Mike Bibby are probably better.

    Then Ronnie Brewer, Sepholosha maybe questionable/equal. Missing anyone?

    Tony Allen has got to be the best, but Deng is questionable imo, I tend to think he’s a tad overrated because of the awesome defensive system he plays in.

    Brewer is better than him in my opinion.

  66. Bruno Almeida: Tony Allen has got to be the best, but Deng is questionable imo, I tend to think he’s a tad overrated because of the awesome defensive system he plays in.

    Brewer is better than him in my opinion.

    I was thinking more pure perimeter defense, Shump and Tony are both too short to defend the post like Lebron, Marion, and Deng. The bigger guys are more versatile, but Tony Allen, Shump, and Rondo are on another level when it comes to pressuring the ball handler and single handedly causing both stops and turnovers.

  67. Juany8: I was thinking more pure perimeter defense, Shump and Tony are both too short to defend the post like Lebron, Marion, and Deng. The bigger guys are more versatile, but Tony Allen, Shump, and Rondo are on another level when it comes to pressuring the ball handler and single handedly causing both stops and turnovers.

    yeah, that does make sense.

    Iguodala and Paul George both deserve mention too.

  68. Man Raptors are making some terrible shots, Knicks really haven’t been giving up too many easy looks.

  69. RuRu did you say MDA brainwashed Lin into holding the ball for 15 seconds on every play?

    I do concur there were a few times where Lin’s vision was a bit narrow.

    Anyone else notice this play?

    JJ hustled to get an off rebound and brought it out to the 3 pt line. Melo basically tries to steal the ball from JJ, who gives it to his PG instead. Melo just stands there on the wing making no effort while Lin ignores him an drives to the basket. Melo smacks his hands in disgust bc he didn’t get the ball.

    Willing to forgive based on his overall effort tonight, but it’s just a matter of time again, isn’t it?

  70. Frank O.:
    Melo getting a long blow

    Hey they’re winning and have a game tomorrow, if he can get some rest good for him, it’s clear he can’t make a jumper for some reason.

  71. “Melo 3-10, I wonder when that breakout game is coming, offensively?”

    Maybe not tonight. Because the Raptors are insanely good on defense….

  72. Toronto commentators questioning Melo’s fitness…saying he is one of those top scorers who should be able to finish through contact and 1’s and surprised to see he isn’t.

  73. Owen:
    “Melo 3-10, I wonder when that breakout game is coming, offensively?”

    Maybe not tonight. Because the Raptors are insanely good on defense….

    Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz
    Line is cast in the water.

  74. toronto broadcasters calling out melo for not finishing that last play. They say that he looks out of shape. I know he seems to be buying in. But they will need “the real” melo to please stand up, at some point. He has to knock that J down. he has to finish those drives. Once the luster has worn off, the officials will stop giving him calls.

  75. Owen:
    “Melo 3-10, I wonder when that breakout game is coming, offensively?”

    Maybe not tonight. Because the Raptors are insanely good on defense….

    yeah… the attitude has been better, the shooting is still terrible.

    and him looking pissed off because he’s 3-10 and Lin won’t give him the ball all the time is irritating, as usual.

  76. Bruno Almeida: yeah… the attitude has been better, the shooting is still terrible.

    and him looking pissed off because he’s 3-10 and Lin won’t give him the ball all the time is irritating, as usual.

    i’m glad i’m not the only one who noticed that, and feels the same.

  77. I always thought Jerryd Bayless could eventually become a really good player, he’s been showing great signs.

  78. I once played with this guy who was really good (for a pickup player). He would bitch and moan every time he didn’t get the ball exactly when and where he wanted it. It really kills a teams moral when you have a guy like that on your team. It hurts other players confidence. Makes them tentative. I know the knicks are playing well right now. But melo needs to stop all those antics. I wonder if he ever will get it?

  79. Even though Melo is shooting an abysmal 4-13, at least he’s playing defense. In the before time, he would be shooting terribly and playing lackluster defense.

  80. llcoolbp:
    on another note if the knicks hit their free throws this game is a massive blowout.

    Well, at least the turnovers are down

  81. Ok I’ve generally been on Melo’s side, but he needs to either attack the basket or look to pass more often. Settling too much right now considering he can’t even hit open jumpers

  82. it’s this type of jumper that’s totally incomprehensible by Melo…

    he had the ball almost in the paint, backed down to 20-feet and chucked it with a defender on his face… why do it? it’s a stupid shot, simple.

  83. I knew the Amar’e should be traded for a bag of peanuts calls were a bit premature.

  84. Melo decided he’s wasn’t far enough from the basket so dribbled back first before shooting it hehe.

  85. llcoolbp:
    I once played with this guy who was really good (for a pickup player). He would bitch and moan every time he didn’t get the ball exactly when and where he wanted it. It really kills a teams moral when you have a guy like that on your team. It hurts other players confidence. Makes them tentative. I know the knicks are playing well right now. But melo needs to stop all those antics. I wonder if he ever will get it?

    I’m sure Mike Woodson will hold him accountable ;)

  86. Melo has 7 rebounds 4 assists 2 steals and is playing strong D AND THE KNICKS ARE UP BY 12. Please cut the guy some slack for one night.

  87. d-mar:
    Melo has 7 rebounds 4 assists 2 steals and is playing strong D AND THE KNICKS ARE UP BY 12. Please cut the guy some slack for one night.

    we could pay Chuck Hayes 5 mil a year for that production.

  88. Melo with 2 GREAT assists since the small bout of hero ball :) Really the only thing he’s not doing well during this streak is shooting, he’s playing within the offense for the most part and making smart passes, as well as trying consistently on defense.

  89. Nick C.: Any backstory on that?

    Surely somebody must know the answer to this. Anybody out there follow the Nuggets much the past 8 years?

  90. Juany8:
    Ok I’ve generally been on Melo’s side, but he needs to either attack the basket or look to pass more often. Settling too much right now considering he can’t even hit open jumpers

    You know, I’ve been watching a few OKC games, and I think if we use Melo like KD (two players I don’t think are far off in terms of talent), he’d be doing much better. In OKC, they usually have Durant coming off screen, or they’d use Durant as the ball handler and put him in situations where he’s taking open jumpers. Rarely, if ever, does Durant get his offense in iso situations. Of course, it’s a lot easier to set up Durant with less mouths to feed on offense in OKC. Earlier in the game, we set up Melo with Tyson as the ball-handler. Tyson handed him the ball, then set a screen, leaving Melo open from mid-range. I think that’s how we need to use Melo on offense if we want him to become more effective.

  91. massive:
    I’m starting to think we need to extend Woodson…..

    Only reason I’m hesitant on that is that there’s a small chance both the Van Gundys, Rick Carlisle, Doc Rivers, Phil Jackson, and Jerry Sloan could be had. The Celtics are done after this year, who knows what Doc does, or what happens with Stan after this season. If Carlisle could be had I’d break the bank for him more than even Melo.

  92. Regarding Melo one last time…..i want him to shoot well, I want him to do all the little things he is doing now. I want it all. I’m greedy like that. i want this knicks team to become dominant and scare the shit out of their opponents come playoff time. If Melo can harness his considerable talent and play within himself, I’ll be lining up to join the bandwagon.

  93. Wow Suns were ahead 90-80 with 7 minutes left, it’s now 97-90 Miami with 2 min. left. I guess the Heat turned up the D a tad.

  94. massive: You know, I’ve been watching a few OKC games, and I think if we use Melo like KD (two players I don’t think are far off in terms of talent), he’d be doing much better. In OKC, they usually have Durant coming off screen, or they’d use Durant as the ball handler and put him in situations where he’s taking open jumpers. Rarely, if ever, does Durant get his offense in iso situations. Of course, it’s a lot easier to set up Durant with less mouths to feed on offense in OKC. Earlier in the game, we set up Melo with Tyson as the ball-handler. Tyson handed him the ball, then set a screen, leaving Melo open from mid-range. I think that’s how we need to use Melo on offense if we want him to become more effective.

    he just can’t do anything right now offensively. The looks toni9ght were there. Luckily, he is doing everything else extremely well. So is the team. When Melo does find it again it takes this team a level where they can compete with Miami, Chicago, and OKC.

    Hopefully they have legs tommorow to make a big statement.

  95. massive: You know, I’ve been watching a few OKC games, and I think if we use Melo like KD (two players I don’t think are far off in terms of talent), he’d be doing much better. In OKC, they usually have Durant coming off screen, or they’d use Durant as the ball handler and put him in situations where he’s taking open jumpers. Rarely, if ever, does Durant get his offense in iso situations. Of course, it’s a lot easier to set up Durant with less mouths to feed on offense in OKC. Earlier in the game, we set up Melo with Tyson as the ball-handler. Tyson handed him the ball, then set a screen, leaving Melo open from mid-range. I think that’s how we need to use Melo on offense if we want him to become more effective.

    The thing is, until he starts making his jumpers consistently and can finish in traffic like he’s done in years past it’s all a moot point. This would have been a brilliant game if he made 2-3 really easy shots he missed, including 2 layups (one he at least got a foul). Of course this team has won 4 in a row in literally as impressive a fashion as any team in the league is capable of. The fact that we’re talking about the team’s problems right now is a tad perfectionist, I really don’t think some of the fans here would enjoy watching ANY team in the league (certainly not OKC lol, Westbrook would get annihilated on this board)

  96. Juany8: Melo with 2 GREAT assists since the small bout of hero ball :) Really the only thing he’s not doing well during this streak is shooting, he’s playing within the offense for the most part and making smart passes, as well as trying consistently on defense.

    Right, and by trying you mean playing a level of defense that’s as good as any in the league outside of the 5-10 elite wing guys. He’s geting big man boards, and face guarding the 7 footers when they’re in deep. That doesn’t show up in the stats either.

  97. Very nice game from Stat and Lin. Melo wasn’t awful, just needs to hit some jumpers, which one has to eventually assume will happen.

    Great win though….

    Very satisfying…

    Team spirit looks great….

  98. ruruland: Right, and by trying you mean playing a level of defense that’s as good as any in the league outside of the 5-10 elite wing guys. He’s geting big man boards, and face guarding the 7 footers when they’re in deep. That doesn’t show up in the stats either.

    Not on help defense unfortunately, but I think he’s the second or third best option to guard Lebron in the entire league. That counts for something, his man defense can be a sight to behold at times.

  99. Juany8: The thing is, until he starts making his jumpers consistently and can finish in traffic like he’s done in years past it’s all a moot point. This would have been a brilliant game if he made 2-3 really easy shots he missed, including 2 layups (one he at least got a foul). Of course this team has won 4 in a row in literally as impressive a fashion as any team in the league is capable of. The fact that we’re talking about the team’s problems right now is a tad perfectionist, I really don’t think some of the fans here would enjoy watching ANY team in the league (certainly not OKC lol, Westbrook would get annihilated on this board)

    If this team wins a championship, I’m sure we’ll all be debating how they won’t be able to repeat or that they’re arguably the worst team to win a championship lol. We’re never satisfied in New York.

  100. Juany8: Not on help defense unfortunately, but I think he’s the second or third best option to guard Lebron in the entire league. That counts for something, his man defense can be a sight to behold at times.

    Uh, right now he’s playing great help defense. AS good of help defense as any guy on this team outside of Jeffries.

    He’s always played good man defense. Now he’s putting it all together.

    His rotations are smart and timely, he’s coming off his man in obvious shooting situations and irritating shots. His 3 steals tonight where in rotation and help situations.

    He’s playing defense as well as anyone in the league outside a haldful of guys.

  101. Owen:
    Very nice game from Stat and Lin. Melo wasn’t awful, just needs to hit some jumpers, which one has to eventually assume will happen.

    Great win though….

    Very satisfying…

    Team spirit looks great….

    Makes you wonder what the locker room was like with D’Antoni. They certainly aren’t playing like they’ve lost their leader.

  102. Make that as good of help defense as anyone outside of Jeffries and Jr SMith. Chandler is missing more rotations right now. Shumpert is clearly the team’s best on-ball defender.

    All the defensive pieces are there for the Knicks to move into the top 5 range. When Melo gets going offensively it will be interesting to see how good they can be on that end.

  103. “He’s playing defense as well as anyone in the league outside a handful of guys”

    Now, come on. Seriously?

    Even for you that is preposterous….

  104. Owen: Very nice game from Stat and Lin. Melo wasn’t awful, just needs to hit some jumpers, which one has to eventually assume will happen. Great win though….Very satisfying…Team spirit looks great….

    Missed jumpers, blown drives, missing easy post-ups, first step not there….. None of it is there right now….

    But if you take away the scoring aspect of the game he was superb. No coincidence the team was +28 with he and Jeremy on the floor, and guys are still respecting Melo a ton in a lot of situations.

    I think he’ still getting in shape and exerting a lot of energy on defense and rebounding…. That’s my explanation of it for now, because the defensive quickness is there.

  105. ruruland:
    Make that as good of help defense as anyone outside of Jeffries and Jr SMith. Chandler is missing more rotations right now. Shumpert is clearly the team’s best on-ball defender.

    All the defensive pieces are there for the Knicks to move into the top 5 range. When Melo gets going offensively it will be interesting to see how good they can be on that end.

    Right, the Knicks look like a good offensive team without a home-run hitter. Sort of like Rex Ryan’s defense in New York. One of the best defenses in the league, but they have no premier pass-rusher on the roster. The Knicks need that pass-rusher, so-to-speak.

  106. Owen: “He’s playing defense as well as anyone in the league outside a handful of guys”Now, come on. Seriously? Even for you that is preposterous….

    Confirmation bias, dude.

    When he sets his mind to it like he’s doing right now, and playing every possession, he’s an elite defender. He’s not Lebron or some of the other wings in terms of 5-6 efforts to close out on players, but yeah, it’s that good. Everything about what he’s done the last 4 games is very high level.

    If you can’t see it with your eyes look at the dismal SF production the last 4 games.

  107. ruruland: Uh, right now he’s playing great help defense. AS good of help defense as any guy on this team outside of Jeffries.

    He’s always played good man defense. Now he’s putting it all together.

    His rotations are smart and timely, he’s coming off his man in obvious shooting situations and irritating shots. His 3 steals tonight where in rotation and help situations.

    He’s playing defense as well as anyone in the league outside a haldful of guys.

    I’m sorry ruru, I’ve been the biggest Melo backer after you on this board, but he’s built like a heavyset power forward, he just can’t fly around the court like a Lebron or Luol Deng is capable of, regardless of his effort. I will say that I thought he was an above average defender for a while, just not the elite level some other wing players have reached. As for this team, Chandler has been missing some rotations, although it’s hard to know how much of that is on Stoudemire for not switching either, or on Lin and Landry for giving up so much penetration.

  108. Owen: “He’s playing defense as well as anyone in the league outside a handful of guys”Now, come on. Seriously? Even for you that is preposterous….

    Confirmation bias, dude.

    When he sets his mind to it like he’s doing right now, and playing every possession, he’s an elite defender. He’s not Lebron or some of the other wings in terms of 5-6 efforts to close out on players, but yeah, it’s that good. Everything about what he’s done the last 4 games is very high level.

    If you can’t see it with your eyes look at the dismal SF production the last 4 games.

    And Owen I’m obviously talking about wings, not bigs.

  109. massive: Right, the Knicks look like a good offensive team without a home-run hitter. Sort of like Rex Ryan’s defense in New York. One of the best defenses in the league, but they have no premier pass-rusher on the roster. The Knicks need that pass-rusher, so-to-speak.

    They look like one of the best teams in basketball right now…period

  110. JEREMY LIN WITH DA DOUBLE-DOUBLE!! WOOT-WOOT!! GO LINSANITY!! GO WOODSANITY!! GO KNICKSANITY!!! :D

  111. Juany8: I’m sorry ruru, I’ve been the biggest Melo backer after you on this board, but he’s built like a heavyset power forward, he just can’t fly around the court like a Lebron or Luol Deng is capable of, regardless of his effort. I will say that I thought he was an above average defender for a while, just not the elite level some other wing players have reached. As for this team, Chandler has been missing some rotations, although it’s hard to know how much of that is on Stoudemire for not switching either, or on Lin and Landry for giving up so much penetration.

    Right. Lebron and to a lesser extent Deng are in their own class. I mentione the handfull of guys. But one thing Melo is doing that Deng can’t do as well is deny post-entry passes with his strength. Right now Melo is flying around the court and making every rotation he’s supposed to.

  112. Alright, mark it down. Melo is 90% of Iggy on defense. And better than Harden the rest of the way in ts%.

  113. Frank O.: They look like one of the best teams in basketball right now…period

    I know every fan here has a right to be jaded, but what this team has done is a pretty big deal. There’s still plenty of things to complain about, and the Knicks just blew out 4 teams in a row, 2 of which were the same good team that just finished blowing out the Clippers. Toronto and Portland aren’t good, but 21 and 42 point wins are what good teams do to bad teams. This has been a significantly better stretch than the Linsanity games, even if you add in the Bulls game, in which the Knicks outplayed the best team in the league, on the road, in every category except rebounding. Besides let’s face it, did D’Antoni ever look happy on the bench? Just from a (dumb and subjective) point of view, this team just seems happier without him on the bench (even if Woodson looks more dazed than anything)

  114. Frank O.:
    Odd. Shump -3

    that’s what happens when you get all those minutes alongside Mike Bibby, the only guy who I’m happy for Fields to come in for.

    great energy by JR Smith in the first half, and a sick steal by Lin followed by I believe only his second dunk of the season to begin the final charge. he looked like he was shot out of a cannon in his first two steps after stealing the ball, very impressive.

    go Portland, and hopefully Baron is back tomorrow because I have seen more than enough of Mike Bibby, non-cheerleader.

    oh, and Shumpert still has the best feel of any NY PG for getting Amare open shots going towards the basket, 3-4 more very nice ones tonight.

  115. Owen: Alright, mark it down. Melo is 90% of Iggy on defense. And better than Harden the rest of the way in ts%.

    Whatever, man. Melo sucks. You win. Enjoy the convo.

  116. jon abbey: that’s what happens when you get all those minutes alongside Mike Bibby, the only guy who I’m happy for Fields to come in for.

    great energy by JR Smith in the first half, and a sick steal by Lin followed by I believe only his second dunk of the season to begin the final charge. he looked like he was shot out of a cannon in his first two steps after stealing the ball, very impressive.

    go Portland, and hopefully Baron is back tomorrow because I have seen more than enough of Mike Bibby, non-cheerleader.

    oh, and Shumpert still has the best feel of any NY PG for getting Amare open shots going towards the basket, 3-4 more very nice ones tonight.

    Best development under Mike Woodson: Fields’ minutes starting to get cut. I’d rather have Shumpert and JR out there playing great D and working to get into rhythm offensively than Fields wondering what to do with the ball if someone’s within 3 feet of him, no matter how many open dunks and layups he makes.

  117. I think the number one storyline the last 4 games has been the consistent defensive intensity, but number two has to be the re-emergence of STAT. That is incredibly huge for this team going forward.

  118. jon abbey
    great energy by JR Smith in the first half, and a sick steal by Lin followed by I believe only his second dunk of the season to begin the final charge. he looked like he was shot out of a cannon in his first two steps after stealing the ball, very impressive.

    By my count, it’s Lin’s third dunk. The first dunk was after crossing over John Wall. That was the shiza. The other two were off of steals, and were minimum clearance dunks.

  119. How about a new grading/statistical grid that doesn’t emphasize individual performances so much. Perhaps total team performance would be more interesting at this point. The individual focus is getting boring (just to me) and less relevant, fortunately. Like in football, we grade offense, defense, special teams and coaching. This isn’t the combine, it’s a team and a season. Maybe this can translate to advanced stats relating to team offense, defense, rebounding and coaching. For me, the focus on individual stuff, particularly Melo, is not only misplaced, but kind of ironic given the bent of some of his harshest critics. Great win either way.

  120. By proprtion, if Iggy=10 , then Melo = 7. But im still yet to see Iggy contain Lebron or match his weight like Melo does.

  121. jon abbey: that’s what happens when you get all those minutes alongside Mike Bibby, the only guy who I’m happy for Fields to come in for.

    great energy by JR Smith in the first half, and a sick steal by Lin followed by I believe only his second dunk of the season to begin the final charge. he looked like he was shot out of a cannon in his first two steps after stealing the ball, very impressive.

    go Portland, and hopefully Baron is back tomorrow because I have seen more than enough of Mike Bibby, non-cheerleader.

    oh, and Shumpert still has the best feel of any NY PG for getting Amare open shots going towards the basket, 3-4 more very nice ones tonight.

    Okay. First Owen. Then Ruru and now jon. Stop boning the players! These May December deals are a little gross.

  122. An underrated story is that Mike Woodson is holding Lin a little more accountable too. Ruruland was right about a point he made earlier that Lin was sometimes holding the ball too long. It’s actually helped Lin once he made the adjustment, he’s been making a fair amount of spot up jumpers the past few games, and he’s missing people at the basket less often. Centering the offense around Lin wasn’t the answer, this team has too much offensive talent to make the offense about any one player, regardless of the system. Puts less pressure on any one player to do great; no one has been dominant these past 4 games and yet they’ve all been blowouts. Melo hasn’t had the offense centered around him either but he seems happier because he is getting specific plays built around getting him a good look (as is Amar’e), which is what should happen instead of trying to run the same offense every time down the floor.

  123. No but seriously whats up with Woody and Bibby, if I didnt know better i’d say..nevertheless i do know better. How come Harrelson doesn’t get minutes.

  124. Juany8:
    An underrated story is that Mike Woodson is holding Lin a little more accountable too. Ruruland was right about a point he made earlier that Lin was sometimes holding the ball too long. It’s actually helped Lin once he made the adjustment, he’s been making a fair amount of spot up jumpers the past few games, and he’s missing people at the basket less often. Centering the offense around Lin wasn’t the answer, this team has too much offensive talent to make the offense about any one player, regardless of the system. Puts less pressure on any one player to do great; no one has been dominant these past 4 games and yet they’ve all been blowouts. Melo hasn’t had the offense centered around him either but he seems happier because he is getting specific plays built around getting him a good look (as is Amar’e), which is what should happen instead of trying to run the same offense every time down the floor.

    Totally agree and 2 Lin TO was Travel and Offensive foul.
    This definitely helping with less mistakes.

  125. daJudge:
    How about a new grading/statistical grid that doesn’t emphasize individual performances so much.Perhaps total team performance would be more interesting at this point. The individual focus is getting boring (just to me) and less relevant, fortunately. Like in football, we grade offense, defense, special teams and coaching.This isn’t the combine, it’s a team and a season. Maybe this can translate to advanced stats relating to team offense, defense, rebounding and coaching.For me, the focus on individual stuff, particularly Melo, is not only misplaced, but kind of ironic given the bent of some of his harshest critics. Great win either way.

    +1. The point distribution across players is very nice.

    Recently, I’ve seen several plays recently in which Amar’e would switch when defending the PnR but Lin would stay on his man, leaving the roll guy open. They need to sort that out. Bad team defense. It certainly wasn’t intentionally trying to trap the ballhandler but just poor communication.

  126. Gideon Zaga:
    By proprtion, if Iggy=10 , then Melo = 7. Butim still yetto see Iggy contain Lebron or match his weight like Melodoes.

    This is the thing Lebron can take Iggy out the game but Lebron has always sruggled to take Melo out of the game.

  127. limpidgimp: +1. The point distribution across players is very nice.

    Recently, I’ve seen several plays recently in which Amar’e would switch when defending the PnR but Lin would stay on his man, leaving the roll guy open. They need to sort that out. Bad team defense. It certainly wasn’t intentionally trying to trap the ballhandler but just poor communication.

    You have admit Lin defense was night and day vs last time they played. He sticking very close to Calderon all night. Calderon score most point on Amare.

    Wow amount offensive rebounds – JJ makes a big difference.
    Also at least one Max player scoring seem back to form and his name is not Melo.

  128. Juany8: I know every fan here has a right to be jaded, but what this team has done is a pretty big deal. There’s still plenty of things to complain about, and the Knicks just blew out 4 teams in a row, 2 of which were the same good team that just finished blowing out the Clippers. Toronto and Portland aren’t good, but 21 and 42 point wins are what good teams do to bad teams. This has been a significantly better stretch than the Linsanity games, even if you add in the Bulls game, in which the Knicks outplayed the best team in the league, on the road, in every category except rebounding. Besides let’s face it, did D’Antoni ever look happy on the bench? Just from a (dumb and subjective) point of view, this team just seems happier without him on the bench (even if Woodson looks more dazed than anything)

    I am loving the last 4 games, but not losing perspective. I still see it as 4 wins against to terrible teams and one overrated team twice ((Pacers won’t make the playoffs, IMO). Tomorrow is a much better test.

  129. The Bucks are really beginning to annoy me.

    In general, I totally agree, but come on, it’s Portland. It’d be a total shocker if the Bucks lose this one.

    Great win tonight!

  130. I think Lin showed tonight that he is indeed a solid starting PG no matter who the coach or what the system. His defense was much, much better, going through screens with a vengeance. Really nice job!

  131. 22 pts and 12 rebounds for Stat, and 18 pts and 10 assists for Lin. I guess that’s not dominate, but that’s all-star level production from two players.

  132. I am loving the last 4 games, but not losing perspective. I still see it as 4 wins against to terrible teams and one overrated team twice ((Pacers won’t make the playoffs, IMO). Tomorrow is a much better test.

    Tomorrow night is yooooooooooooge. I haven’t wanted a win this bad in quite awhile.

  133. Z-man:
    I think Lin showed tonight that he is indeed a solid starting PG no matter who the coach or what the system. His defense was much, much better, going through screens with a vengeance.Really nice job!

    People speak like Lin is 29 and been in the league for 7 seasons. He’s played a total of 1139 minutes in the league. He can be more than a solid starting PG. I think he’ll be about as good as Mark Price was.

  134. Frank O.: Okay. First Owen. Then Ruru and now jon. Stop boning the players! These May December deals are a little gross.

    ok, that’s twice, now stop. if you can’t see it, that’s on you, but I am not making it up.

  135. Melo had off-season surgery for first time. I really don’t think he train at all in summer. He seems flabby. He shot 87 percent from strip last year with Knicks. His shot is just not looking good at all this year.
    At 27 you shouldn’t be having career lows. Either he couldn’t train or dogged in off season and trying he trying to play back form.

    Woodson actually had Lin shoot technicals.

  136. I think he’ll be about as good as Mark Price was.

    Yikes. That is a bold statement. If he ends up as good as Mark Price…well, that would just be awesome.

  137. JC Knickfan:
    Melo had off-season surgery for first time. I really don’t think he train at all in summer. He seems flabby.He shot 87 percent from strip last year with Knicks.His shot is just not looking good at all this year.
    At 27 you shouldn’t be having career lows.Either he couldn’t train or dogged in off season and trying he trying to play back form.

    Woodson actually had Lin shoot technicals.

    One thing everyone seems to have forgotten is that he actually started off the year playing really well. The team was losing, but I’m pretty sure Bibby, Walker, and TD had more to do with it than Melo. Once his wrist got hurt and he started getting some leg/groin injuries, he slowed down severely, even after he came back for a while. He’s really just missing shots, he shouldn’t be passing up open jumpers or layups but he’s not making them right now.

  138. Juany8: One thing everyone seems to have forgotten is that he actually started off the year playing really well. The team was losing, but I’m pretty sure Bibby, Walker, and TD had more to do with it than Melo. Once his wrist got hurt and he started getting some leg/groin injuries, he slowed down severely, even after he came back for a while. He’s really just missing shots, he shouldn’t be passing up open jumpers or layups but he’s not making them right now.

    As of the Memphis game he had a Per around 26 with a TS above 60. It’s in there somewhere, obviously.

  139. I know its not exactly a fair comparison but right now for the season the Knicks have a better point differential than the Nuggets (not to mention 3 other current West playoff teams). More importantly they also have a better point differential than the Hawks, Celtics and Magic.

    Of course alot of that has to do with what seems like alot of parity in the NBA aside from the Bulls, Heat and Thunder.

  140. ruruland: As of the Memphis game he had a Per around 26 with a TS above 60.It’s in there somewhere, obviously.

    If we make Playoffs and Melo not back to form, I just don’t see Knicks making pass the first round. If he is, upset in the making.

  141. JC Knickfan:

    Woodson actually had Lin shoot technicals.

    cuz Lin has been the best knick at shooting free throws. he had perfect record past recent games.

  142. thyrdrail: cuz Lin has been the best knick at shooting free throws. he had perfect record past recent games.

    25 for 26 in the last five games, impressive.

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