2010 Game Thread: Knicks @ Mavericks

Wash, rinse, repeat of the last 43 losses. Sigh. Well maybe Toney Douglas will get some more playing time. He has played well and his defense has been a nice change of pace from Sergio “Ole” Rodriguez. Why did it take this long to see him get steady playing time? Oh well, in-game thoughts here.

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Thomas B.

@Don't bother; I don't tweet

50 thoughts to “2010 Game Thread: Knicks @ Mavericks”

  1. Knicks are trying tonight. Too bad nobody other than the Knicks bench is watching.

  2. Im watching!!!! You know what TD may not be a PG but the kid is a good basketball player period. Guess Sergio will be heading back to Spain this summer if he has lost his spot in the rotation back to Duhon….

  3. WOW I may have to take that back, early in the 2nd half TD with a beautiful assist to Lee on the PNR and then to Chandler on the fastbreak for an And1 layup.

  4. Is it just me, or is Gallo starting to resemble a younger, slightly darker, Jared Jeffries?
    Couple blocks, couple rebounds, solid D, occasional 3 pointer…

  5. Holy Shit, now T-Mac is feeling it in the 3rd quarter. 2 3pters and an And1 jumper.

  6. I’m not sure how to type “The Twilight Zone” music but…. ne ne ne ne ne ne ne ne ne ne ne. Who the hell are you people and what did you do with the Knicks?

  7. You know I think when people say the only players Knicks have for the future are Gallo and Chandler they are going to have to change that and include Toney Douglas because the kid can flat out play both ends of the court.

  8. Seriously! Great blocks by Chandler and mcgrady in the 3rd. Great ball movement and defensive intensity! When was the last time you heard Clyde say “all the knicks with the knack”?

  9. Do de do de do de do…
    Man if we replaced Al and House with two coathangers we might be pretty good.

  10. Do de do de do de do…
    Man if we replaced Al and House with two coathangers we might be pretty good.
    Oh and I love Walker’s game.

  11. Sounds good to me Thomas!!

    BTW how about Jason Kidd now 4th all-time in 3pt fg made. Wow. For a guy who had a rep as a bad shooter for most of his career not bad.

  12. WOW, 1st Knick win in Dallas since Dec 1999, Allan Houston lead the Knicks with 31 pts that game. This could be the best Knick win since when?? Win in LA vs the Lakers in 2001?? In terms of opponent’s record and at their home??

  13. do not say the “w” word until the buzzer sounds 25 points or not, this is still the Knicks we are talking about.

  14. OMG they just showed highlights of the Knick win in Dallas in 1999. Showed Spree and Houston scoring, Im about to cry….

  15. You know it’s true garbage time when the Knicks line-up has Chandler at center and Walker at PF. And I guess Walker is legit from 3.

  16. Only downside tonight- benching Sergio rather than House. Hopefully TD starts from here on out- probably never going to be a pure point guard but maybe he can develop into a Billups type of lead guard where defense and shooting make up for a lack of pure play-making skill. And can this be right? Bill Walker’s TS% in the month of March is 73%?? and that’s playing 29.5 minutes a night. I know it’s only 8 games that’s pretty crazy.

  17. I just read the write up. The box score said Gallinari had no blocks, but the picture accompanying it was a shot of Gallo blocking the shit out of Caron Butler… Perhaps eyes do tell more than stats?

  18. nicos – why can’t TD turn into a pure point eventually? He moved the ball really well tonight (based on watching) and the box score says 8 Asts. He’s got the skills…

  19. Nice for Knicks to win some in between..finally revenged that 50 point ass whooppin the Knickerblogger previously had

  20. Rohank- He still struggles to run the pick & roll, when he gets penetration he’s looking to score rather than to dish, doesn’t have the kind of court vision of Kidd, Paul, etc… Not saying he can’t be effective at the point- Billups isn’t a “pure” point but he’s still a top 5 point guard (and was probably the best player on a championship team).

  21. Let’s see if we can finish the season with a bang, winning every single game, and making the playoffs (is that statistically possible?). HAHA, what a pleasant dream. I wonder one year from now, on this exact day, what a random post on this site would look like.

  22. “I wonder one year from now, on this exact day, what a random post on this site would look like.”

    “Joe Johnson looked good tonight, again, but seriously — he doesn’t need to play 48 minutes every other game. Hopefully Amare’ will be back from knee surgery before the playoffs. You all know the Cavs are going to be a tough #1 seed in the first round. How the hell is LeBron posting a 32 PER, anyway?

    After this next group of 10-day-contracts expires, we should look for a new point guard so Hinrich can sit the bench; just because we gave up our 2013 1st rounder and Toney for him doesn’t mean he needs to start.

    2014 will be our year!”

  23. Douglas = Billups? hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

    I think the upside version of Toney Douglas is…. Lindsey Hunter, maybe with a better shot. Lindsey wasn’t a pure point, but ran the point in spots and was a rotation player for a lot of top-level teams, including the ’04 Pistons. He lasted 18 years in the league, mostly as a defensive specialist. Averaged 2 steals per 36, over his career, but also was a career 36 percent from 3 (including the rough and tumble 90s). Unfortunately that (and avoiding TOs) was pretty much the sum of his offensive game. Never got to the line and a career TS% under 50.

    TD is already a much better shooter. You’ll never want him as your starting PG but I could see him improving that aspect of his game enough to be a solid backup — sort of a combo guard, 20-25 minutes on a really good team.

    Walker – his game is pretty rough, but it sure looks like he can light up the scoreboard. I could see him having a real NBA career. As Chuck Daly liked to say (when questioned about his Xs and Os), “There are only two great plays – South Pacific and Put the Ball in the Basket.”)

    Having said that… where these Knicks just desperately, desperately need help is plugging up the middle. A guy like Brendan Haywood (or Camby, or Jermaine O’Neal) might only be worth a couple of games to most teams, but added to the current Knick roster I think would put them in the playoffs – just that one move alone. Of course we’ll be going for LeBron but finding a way, any way, to get that center should be a big priority.

  24. Halfway off-topic… Jarvis Varnado looking spectactular in the 2nd half of the SEC championship game.

  25. The stars are starting to align for our Knickerbockers. In the last week:

    1) Joe Johnson to NY a “done deal” (I know it’s Isola, but who knows?)

    2) Rudy Gay says he’d like to play in NY

    3) JJ Barea says the same thing (I know this one is meaningless, but sort of confirms the trend of NY being an attractive team to NBA players)

    4) Bosh erupted after a loss to GS and called out his teammates for not caring. I think he’s 100% out of Toronto.

    Obviously, we know who the main target still is this summer, but you get the impression that there’s no way we will get shut out and “worst case” would probably be Johnson and Bosh.

  26. I just hope that if any of them come to the Knicks, none of those guys get max deals, even Bosh.

  27. i don’t know if this will suit us, but i say David Lee and Brendan Haywood would solve our problem is the paint this offseason, and their salaries for the 2011 season probably won’t add up to a max contract. What we need is a PG out of New Orleans (there is no way there is enough room for Darren Collison and Chris Paul on the same team) and a true shooting guard. This team won’t be a contender next season, so maybe we can wait it out for the PG, but we’ll definitely be blogging about it next year. Donnie Walsh is on record for saying that if we play our chips right, we’ll be players in the 2011 offseason (ESPN Mag.), so say if Chris Paul or Deron Williams bolts, we’ll be the perfect place. But I doubt Williams bolts if the pick we send them is a top 5 where they can land Derrick Favors or Evan Turner. Despite Chris Paul’s skill-set, he gets injured, and with the luck of the Knicks, putting the two together would be no good. But if we pull away with Joe Johnson (supposed to be lock, i hope not for a max), David Lee, Brendan Haywood and J.J. Barea, we’ve kept a fan favorite, added a new one in Barea (J.J. is Puerto Rican, we’re loaded with Puerto Ricans here), added some serious work-ethic in Joe Johnson, and got a defensive center to play along-side David Lee. Plus Wilson, Danilo, Bill, and Toney. I can honestly say i think that this has to be the offseason that makes the most sense. I love LeBron as much as the next guy, but adding him to a bunch of SFs doesn’t really propel us into E.C. greatness. Hey, maybe we can fit T-Mac in there, he still gets the calls nobody else will in New York.

  28. Caleb- My point about Billups was less of a direct comparison than trying to make the point that you don’t necessarily have to be a “pure” point guard to be successful playing the 1. Billups came into the league as a scoring combo guard and learned to play the point pretty successfully though his game doesn’t resemble Nash or Paul at all. Dennis Johnson’s a similar case (though he played the latter part of his career with a play-making forward in Bird which really helped). My unrealistic fantasy comparison for Douglas would actually be Gary Payton rather than Billups. Also, like DJ, I think if you had a play-making forward (I hear there might be one available this summer) I think Douglas could turn out to be a perfectly adequate (and possibly much better) starter.

  29. I agree that Lee/Haywood would be an awesome front court, but I also don’t see how Dallas could possibly not re-sign Haywood outside of the Knicks making some ungodly offer to Haywood (which would defeat the purpose of the cap flexibility).

    The point of the importance of guys like Haywood/Camby has never been more evident than with Haywood’s addition to Dallas – totally turned the entire team around.

    So I think Camby is the more realistic “get” as a defensive 5 to pair with Lee (or Bosh?) at the 4.

  30. The new Pacers-Knicks 30 for 30 doc is awesome. Amazing to be transported back to a time where the Knicks were really worth rooting for….

  31. John Starks’ immortal words about Reggie Miller’s 8 point flurry…

    “Did this dude just did this?”

  32. I saw the last 1/2 hour, and they showed Ewing’s missed finger roll in game 7 in 1995 from like 10 different angles. Poor Patrick, the ball was literally halfway down and somehow popped out like an invisible hand had punched it. I didn’t realize though, that they were down 2, so they still would have had to prevail in OT. I also forgot how tough Derek Harper was.

    I cannot wait until playoff basketball returns to MSG.

  33. “I just read the write up. The box score said Gallinari had no blocks, but the picture accompanying it was a shot of Gallo blocking the shit out of Caron Butler… Perhaps eyes do tell more than stats?”

    Yeah, as someone who loves stats it really bugs me how haphazardly the NBA collects them. Some of those things probably even out, but it’s annoying.

  34. “You’ll never want him as your starting PG”

    If you had a James and/or Wade, then Douglas might be a good PG.
    He can probably develop into a guy who could be a PG next to a Joe Johnson, too. Mike Bibby has been more of a playmaker on his career, but next to Johnson his assist rate is only in the low 20s.

    @ rohank,

    Anything is possible. Dennis Rodman’s rebounding was nothing special at all his rookie year. What we’ve seen from Douglas so far, though, suggest he’s not a “pure PG.” His assist rate has gone up recently to the point where it’s at least solid for a SG. He had an assist rate around 10 for a long while, which really troubled me because that’s what a forward usually puts up. If he works hard and things go well for him, he can get into that 20-25 range for assist rate and be a respectable PG. Billups started his career in the low 20s, and peaked out at 40%. That would really be a best-case for Douglas. I’m impressed enough with Douglas’ rookie campaign, though, since scoring efficiency is something that’s often either there or just isn’t.

  35. d-mar, they also failed to mention that Ewing that game scored 29 pts along with 14 rebs, 5 assists and 4 blocks. But of course he did unfortunately miss that layup although he was pretty much playing at half-speed the entire playoffs that year since he was so banged up. But he hit the game-winner as they showed in Game 5 and had his best 2 games of the series in Games 6 and 7. But he is still widely regarded as someone who didnt come up huge in big games. Of course the critics remember that Game 7 in 1995 for the missed layup but hardly remember the Game 7 vs the Pacers in 1994 when he scored 24 pts along with 22 rebs, 7 assists and 5 blocks with of course the famous putback jam which was showed tonight.

    Despite my bitterness I LOVED the 30 for 30 tonight. It was well done and wasnt as one-sided towards Reggie Miller as I thought it would be. I absolutely loved the fact they ended the show right after the credits with LJ’s 4-pt play in 1999. The 1998-2000 series’ are not as famous as the 1993-1995 series’ but was probably much better basketball to watch since with Bird as coach the Pacers were more offensively oriented than under Larry Brown (believe they were the #1 offense by efficiency ratings in 1999 and 2000) and the Knicks while they were the same under Van Gundy as they were under Riley were much easier to watch on offense thanks to the different talent on the roster under Van Gundy than under Riley. Of course the Knicks lost 2 of the 3 series in that time frame while they won 2 of the 3 series in the time frame of tonight’s 30 for 30.

  36. @44 could that have been waived off due to a foul call during or before the block? If you know the time of the photo, or dvr’d the game, check it against the play by play.

  37. Watched some of the Raptors/Blazers last night (not sure who called that game on nba tv, but it was excellent analysis.) Not sold AT ALL on Bosh now. A game after calling out his teammates, yes he put up 28 pts (and a Curry-like 7 boards), but his effort on defense was dare I say worse than a typical Lee effort. Sure the Blazers are good, but Camby’s and Aldridge’s effort completely blew Bosh away. I came away very unimpressed. I would NOT offer Bosh a max contract. It makes way more sense to get Lee and Camby for the same $$. Lee has his faults, but I’d prefer a Douglas/Lebron or Wade/Gallo/Lee/Camby lineup to a Douglas/Chandler/Lebron/Gallo/Bosh lineup if truth be told. I think Haywood is a pipe dream because you’d have to overspend to get him. You could also probably get shaq instead, not the best idea for a center, but not the worst.
    But I still think if you can get a Lebron/Wade combo you have to go for it.

  38. Thomas,

    I think Pau has a totally legitimate beef. The last Lakers game I saw Kobe literally did not pass the ball for the last 5-7 minutes. Maybe once. He would literally take the ball in backcourt, bring it up, and then dribble around until he decided to shoot. That’s not an offense. It’s incredible that he matched his season TS% in that stretch and the Lakers didn’t get embarrassed (as in, he’s an incredibly gifted scorer and not Jamal Crawford), but with two All-NBA caliber teammates and a perennial 6th man of the year candidate on his team… pass the freaking ball. The only guy he passes to is Derek bloody Fisher. I might pass it to Fisher before Artest, but not Pau or Bynum or Odom. On the last possession, ok let Kobe shoot. For the last 5 minutes? Run a freaking offense. Along with having incredible talent, the 2nd hallmark of Phil Jackson’s coaching career has been ball-movement (defense 3rd). Kobe could give it up to his freakishly good passing frontcourt mates and then get it back in a better position to score. This would be a better game plan than going 1-on-5, in my opinion.


    If you can have Lee and Camby for the same money as Bosh, then sure. Camby, though, is not getting younger. Counting on him to be your team’s defense in and of himself is questionable. And, there’s the question people always raise about whether D’Antoni would a. be willing to play Lee with a 5, and b. could actually pull it off.

    A friend of mine heard from a very high-up source in Toronto’s organization that they fully expect Bosh to leave. Whatever that’s worth.

    I’d give Bosh a max deal in the right situation. i.e. on a good defensive team where he’d play the 4. He’s one of the best offensive PFs in the NBA.

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