2008 Thread: Bulls at Knicks 11/24/2007

Your pre-game/post-game comments here.

The Bulls come in with a superior 2-8 record. They have the league’s worst offense, averaging 92.8 pts per 100 possessions, 8.1 pts worse than the 25th ranked Knicks. However Chicago’s defense is a stout 13th (104.9 pts/100), compared to the Knicks 28th ranked defense (112.8 pts/100). The Bulls are first in the league in forcing turnovers.

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Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

41 thoughts to “2008 Thread: Bulls at Knicks 11/24/2007”

  1. I am a loyal Knicks fan. I am more ashamed of the players on the court than I am of Isiah Thomas. Those overpaid “loosers” – Marbury, Curry, Crawford, James(even though he has not played he sucks anyway) – have no pride. They play with no desire to win. The couch does not have the ball in his hand to make a difference – they do. I leave my house at six every morning to earn my rent money. I will probably never make the money any on those guys make in a year in my life time, but I darn sure work harder. They make me sick.

  2. At the half… perhaps the defensive half of the season so far. Sure, the Bulls can’t score and they’re turning the ball over like it’s been coated in extra virgin olive oil but I’m not seeing the wide open looks. I’m seeing more activity on the defensive end… people fighting over screens, lots of deflections.

    Zebo has impressed with his passing from the high post so far. He doesn’t appear to be quite the same passer from the low post.

  3. I can’t believe the team’s salary is actually going to increase next year. My hopes of landing Lebron (when he opts out in what, 2010) are fading. I want Michael Beasley, though, so here’s to 60 losses!

  4. Wow the Bulls look as bad as the Knicks. They might be worse than we are. We will know in a few minutes.

    I think we need to acknowledge that this is a different team when Balkman gets significant minutes.

  5. Just as I was about to type “smartest defensive game in quite a while,” Balkman fouls Nocioni attempting a 3pt. shot. Yeesh.

  6. Mr. Black,

    what I’m struck by when Balkman is on the floor is how much smarter the team seems to play when he’s on the floor. You love it when a guy who is around the ball all the time doesn’t do stupid things with it.

  7. WTF – Was watching the play by play online, looks like they almost concocted a way to lose it.

    Weird box score. Ten players who have played ten minutes or more practically. Q must have put on a rebounding clinic.

    Love to see ten turnovers from our young guns frontcourt.

    26-42 from the line, and Curry shot well.

    And I see that Lee was the equivalent of of 3-5 with 5 rebounds in 12 minutes. Ludicrous. Did we really get Randolph so that we could play Lee less?


    But a win is a win, I will take it…

  8. What is it called when the team playing the Knicks have less points at the end of the game than the Knicks?

  9. “What is it called when the team playing the Knicks have less points at the end of the game than the Knicks?”

    For me, considering the team in question, an invitation to drink.

  10. what an incredible victory–all faith be restored! a matchup of the titans, and the knicks come up on top, at home, barely.

    My prediction is that this season will be so woeful this pathetic display of a basketball game will become one of MSG’s great 07 wins that will constantly be replayed next summer. I can just see Marbury being interviewed for his great effort–hopefully from Rome.

    If it wasn’t for Balkman and Lee, I honestly don’t know what I would do.

  11. This doesn’t satisfy. It’s fine and all. But can we please get more minutes for Lee and Balkman? Is Q-Rich really that valuable in his current state? I love the guy, but he’s a liability in too many ways at this point. And don’t even get me started about Jeffries’ sad attempts at offense.

    And who’s happy with Randolph? The guy makes Crawford look timid about shooting. He has that “I’m gonna chuck it” look almost every time he gets the ball. Yes, he makes some shots. Like Crawford, I’m convinced he could be a nice player. But come on, this brainless shooting destroys an offensive momentum.

  12. The good: Marbury 0 t/o’s, +16 19pts great D on Gordon(4 for 17).
    Zack – big rebounds and buckets last 1.5 minutes to seal the game.
    Crawford and Nate not forcing, total 2 t/o’s and a couple of nice outside jumpers when open.
    Q – 15 rebounds many in the midst of traffic on the defensive end.
    Zeke – looks like he spread Curry and Zack out more and that opened opened up the lanes for marbury.

    The Bad – Curry no clue defending the pick and rolls, people keep tipping the ball out of his hands, rebounds with one hand too much. Slow to pass out of the double teams or just too committed to turn and shoot.
    Zack – finds new ways to get t/o’s. no defensive intensity.
    Fred Jones – giving us nothing. can’t believe we gave up Nichols much needed outside shooting for this.
    The Ugly: Chris Duhon inbound pass.

  13. “Joakim Noah and Tyrus Thomas didn?t exactly justify NYK regret over trading for curry.”

    I wasn’t aware that the Knicks absolutely had to pick Thomas and Noah. I’ve never understood this kind of justification…Thomas traded the picks that led to those players, not the players themselves. It could easily have been Brandon Roy and Sean Williams, which I would take over Curry any day.

  14. xduckshoex: i agree. the justification is wrong, especially when you consider that the same people making it usually tout isiah as a great drafter.

  15. P.S. LeBron is on another planet right now. Our entire plan should shift to landing him in 2010. I can’t imagine how good he’ll be at 26 if he continues to improve.

  16. I must say this was Marbury’s best game in recent memory. Good decision-making, (mostl) good defense, consistent effort — pretty surprising considering all that’s happened. The Knicks were a better team today with Marbury on the floor.

    It seemed like the majority of Q’s rebounds were uncontested. He had a couple nice ones, but a lot of them came because for some reason he was spending a lot of time in the low post. He showed some nice burst on a few plays, but still seemed a couple steps behind everyone else. A total liability on both ends of the floor.

    Jekyl and Hyde game for Randolph. I’m on board now with starting Lee and keeping Zach on the bench. He likes to drift out towards the perimeter way too often.

    Balkman hit a three pointer. How good would he be if he developed a jump shot? I guess the same could be said for half of the players on this roster, though.

    At one point we had Jeffries, Balkman and Lee on the floor at once. It was kinda like in Being John Malkovich when Malkovich goes inside his own head.

    Other than Charlotte, Philly and the Deng-less Bulls, are there any teams we match up well with? Wolves? Sonics? I’m not so sure.

  17. “Other than Charlotte…are there any teams we match up well with?”

    Charlotte was a tough matchup for us last year. Why would it be different this year?

  18. although I’ll amend that. if Q ever gets healthy enough to become a genuine 3 threat again, plus Balkman is 100%, and Crawford and Curry keep playing like they did today, then we can be reasonably competitive. that’s a lot of ifs, though.

  19. “P.S. LeBron is on another planet right now. Our entire plan should shift to landing him in 2010. I can?t imagine how good he?ll be at 26 if he continues to improve.”

    this has been my thinking all along. plus, even if we didnt land him, the cap space we’d have to set aside to sign him could be used on some other people. of course, that’s assuming a sign-and-trade doesnt happen

  20. d. crockett,

    I have been up and down on Q this year, but if he can find anything that could pass for a jumper i would support him suplanting Crawford at the two and putting Balkman at the three.

    I think Crawford would strive as the sixth man. He and his buddy Nate could proide scoring for the second team. Lee would provide the rebounding.

    I want Balkman starting because there is just something about him that seems to improve the team’s effort. His energy and hussle almost shames the rest of the players into action. This seems like eons ago, but in the first Denver game we all remember Balkman’s effort but do you recall the influence Balkman had on Curry? Curry played above himself that game particularly his defensive effort. I credit that to Balkman.

    A starting five of Marbury, Richardson, Balkman, Randolph, and Curry gives you two good defenders in the starting line up rather than the usual one. We likely cut down on turnovers by moving Crawford to the bench and we increase the energy level out the gate.

    A second unit of JC, Nate, and Lee puts us at an 8 man rotation, which is best i think, and it provides defined roles.

    I love David Lee but I think the word is out on him this season. He cuaght alot of people by suprise last year, this year teams are ready for him. This is why his role as first forward off the bench will help. He has been overmatched against most starting PFs this year. But he has out played most bench bigs. SO let him run with JC and Nate. He can provide the rebounding, D and hustle that Balkman brings. JC and Nate can run and gun freely becuase they wont have to think “post first” with either Randolph or Curry taking a blow. I think this gives the team the balance it needs.

  21. The word is out on Lee? Since the Kings game he has been playing great. Really, other than the Suns game, and the Miami game somewhat, he has played very well. He played twelve minutes last night and had six points and 5 rebounds with a ts% of 60% and no turnovers. What more do you want from the guy? Isaiah just isn’t playing him. Meanwhile, Randolph is 6-13 from the line with SIX turnovers, and getting praise for being clutch. He wouldn’t need to be clutch if he had played halfway decently…

  22. Lee has played fair. But he is not at the place he was last year. He had some very good games but teams are recognizing him as a threat and they are finding ways to adjust. They may not be able to keep him off the boards, but his offense has been very bad in a number of games. He cant hit an outside shot and they are finding ways to stop his post play. You cant tell me that he has looked good on offense in more than three games this season. If Lee isnt fouled he cant score. The majority of his buckets are in transition, which the Knicks dont do very much of.

    You cant tell me that teams arent focusing on Lee this season. The best evidence of that his the difficulty he is having scoring on post moves. His FG%, while a very good .500 is below last year’s numbers. He simply is not catching people off guard. That doesnt mean he is a bad or ineffective player. He ust needs to find new ways to get things done.

    As for the turnovers. I cant argue with that. I do think Lee is a better passer and a smarter player than Randolph. But Zach is better in the post. I see it as a push when it comes to rebounding. Here is the big difference: A good defensive player can stop Lee from scoring. Randolph seems to stop himself with poor decisions. Though I must say, Randolph decision making was much better before he missed time to be with the family.

    Perhaps isiah changed something in the play book that he is struggling to adjust to.

  23. How many times have we seen these guys get up for a big game and win, then go back to playing half-ass? Just to take this season, Denver and Chicago are two teams with which Isiah’s Knicks have the most history (the fight and Curry/Crawford deals) and these are two of the three teams they’ve beaten. Maybe if someone could explain to them that it’s their job to be excited and play their best every game this would be an NBA basketball team.

    Along with the effort on the defensive side, they also seemed to be moving a bit offensively.

  24. Randolph is a better player than Lee; no way Lee hits 1 minute clutch shots like that. The Knicks need Curry and Randolph on the floor together at the end of close games, because Curry demands a double team and Randolph can get one on one coverage like yesterday’s game. They have played together for exactly 12 games; How many games were lost last year when Curry was triple teamed and Lee, Balkman, Collins, Jeffries etc. were tossing bricks. As seen with the Bulls, when the perimeter players shoot poorly, the team loses.
    A few clutch buckets like Zachs against Miami, the Clippers and Kings and the Knicks are 6 and 6.
    Balkman needs more minutes; he can be a great one on one defender.

  25. As someone pointed out so nicely (Marc R.? Ted?), Randolph is a very good high usage player, but he is absolutely LOST on the Knicks who already HAVE a high usage player in Curry that, so far this season, has been playing better than Randolph, leaving Randolph without much of a role to fill.

    Lee, meanwhile, is his typical very good low usage playing self.

  26. It was Ben R who made that point Brian, although I think the high usage low usage distinction got a lot of play in the Kobe-Lee thread.

    Until Randolph gets his ts% within 10% of Lee I don’t even want to hear a discussion. Zach Randolph has a ts% of 45%! And he is committing turnovers at a very high rate. In the last game he took 16 shots, 13 free throws, and committed 6 turnovers. He “used” 28.5 possessions, and produced 20 points. That’s horrible. League average is more than a point per possession.

    And since when is getting to the foul line a bad thing. Well, maybe it is if you go 6-13 like Randolph did against the Bulls, but it’s a great thing when you are shooting 86% from the line.

    People love to watch Zach shoot, but he has been killing us on offense…

  27. I just got glorious glorious vision of the knick’s short-term savior: Andre Miller. Supposedly the Sixers want to play Louis Williams more, and want to unload Miller’s contract to give AI2 the contract he wants.

    If the Knicks got him I would be overjoyed as long as the trade didn’t include: Our first round draft pick, David Lee, Renaldo Balkman, Nate Robinson and Mardy Collins.

    On the other hand, major con is the Knicks might win some games so Isiah could stay for at least another year…I don’t know if its worth it.

  28. Hudson River; 1) Miller has not been very good this year and is at the age where he might have hit a wall. 2) If the 76ers want to play Louis Williams more (as they should), why don’t they just give him Willie Green’s minutes? God, that guy is terrible.

  29. By the way, I am astonished at how good Louis Williams is.

    I had NO clue that he could play at this level in the NBA.

    It is astonishing.

    Anyhow, yeah, obviously, I think all of us would like Andre Miller, but I can’t see how the Knicks could get him withOUT trading either Balkman, Lee or a pick – and in THAT case, I’d just as soon let him go.

  30. He’s a pass first point-guard and his prime target, Andre Iguodala is moaning and complaining for his contract and not playing hard. The rest of his team is horrible, like the aforementioned Willie Green. How can he be expected to play well? He has showed throughout his career he can play, and never really relied on his athleticism so I don’t see a major drop off.

    What if we took him,a second round pick and Samuel Dalembert for Eddy Curry, Jared Jefferies and Wilson Chandler?

  31. Don’t we remember Miller In LA when he had all that Talent around him lol talk about Marbury not making players around him better. An how about the great job he did in Denver lol. Come on guys lets cut it out

  32. I dunno, sean, Andre Miller has got to be a big step up from what the Knicks currently have at the point.

    That being said, I am not THAT crazy about him. I’m all for trading for him if it can be done on the cheap, but if it is even relatively painful, I say no.

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